if you're aware that this is a faithful recreation of the original Buchla 258 then why do you keep harping back to things it "needs" in 2022 lol. If there were a bunch of updates to make it fit into the modern eurorack landscape then it would no longer be a faithful recreation but just another modern reimagining of a Buchla oscillator
@@Cantrip1957 False. it is attempting to be as close to the original as the different format allows. What you're saying is silly, following your thought to its logical conclusion, it cannot be a faithful recreation, unless it is completely identical in every single way to the original, which would be a silly thing to do when there are a few basic improvements that can be made with some newer tech that don't affect the original design in any way other than to make it more reliable and long lasting. Also a lot of the analog stuff that went into these early synths is literally impossible to find now. Tiptop licensed the original designs from Buchla USA themselves, made only changes that were necessary for it to work in the slightly smaller format, with slightly different voltage requirements . . I think they did a pretty good job. In fact, to me, these modules have become more versatile due to the fact that audio and control voltage both use the same cables (unlike the original, which used different cables), thus allowing one to patch things that would be impossible to patch on the original. The whole point of these is to make as close to a faithful recreation of the original as the format allows. If they just started adding octave switches and other such features, it would basically have been useless to secure the licensing contract with Buchla in the first place. This guys critique does not have good value. If you want a more modern oscillator with octave switches and other features, they are plentiful. The whole idea of these is to revere the OG designs that Buchla himself made, as when you put all these into a system together, more or less youre putting yourself into a space of having to deal with the limitations that they create, which I think is really cool. Even as limited as some of these are, they are really quite versatile, but they make you think about patching/synthesis in a different way.. in the way maybe Buchla himself or. a Morton Subotnik may have thought about it. Or if you dont want to fully commit to old school, you can mix and match these with more recent additions, and create your own perfect hybrid design. The freedom and possibilities are endless, which is why its stupid for this guy to complain about octave switches and other features they dont have. Its like complaining about a bicycle bc it doesn't have a 150cc engine on it.. thats not why its built or what its built for .. if thats what you wanted , you should have thought about that before you purchased something that doesn't do the thing you want, and then complain it doesn't do what you already knew it wasn't made to do in the first place.
@@ericMT and a lot of companies HAVE done that, especially with the old buchla designs. The thing thats awesome about the tiptop ones is that they're as close as possible to the original thing that the different format would allow.
The FM input is a linear FM with an attenuator. The processing input is an exponential FM with an attenuverter. When the processing input is close to full clockwise, it will perform close to v/oct range movement (but does not track v/oct). It's a great input for transposing your parts, or creating alternate harmonies and sequences. Buchla often had two pitch oriented inputs, which is what is happening here, and it's definitely part of the style/sound. It doesn't really overlap with the FM input function, regardless of the "format type" from the original.
Haha totally fair, I love this module for what it is to be honest BUT i think a lot of people are making a buying decisions with this next to a load of more recent modules so it seemed like a point worth making to me!
If you do a survey of dual analog oscillators in the same class, 9 hp per oscillator is not above average. Among DCO's two Plaits take up 24 hp versus 18 hp for the two oscillators in the 285t. Plus you have two outputs per oscillator, so with a mix of wavefolders/filters you can have four voices and two of them can be an interval (octave if you like) above or below the other. In addition, it's only $100 per oscillator. Sounds amazing too! But, don't buy it, so I can get a 2nd one sooner :). Didn't follow what your issue is with the FM and attenuverted cv input. Perhaps you can demonstrate?
Appreciate the honesty! I feel like a lot of the issues are just issues that come with adapting a classic oscillator to a modern format. The Serge Random Source NTO has a lot of your same concerns but they just sound so damn good that the size and weirdness is worth it lol
You can make plaits go up and down in octaves if you hold the top right button and use the harmonic control. I know its not as simple as a switch, but its got more than just a 1 or 2 octave range that way. Also makes tuning plaits easier because the pitch knob becomes much less sensitive when the range is selected this way
With the latest firmware- the upgrade that introduced the third, orange, bank- Plaits does now have an octave knob. Frequency now gives you eight or nine Cs, from inaudible low to inaudible high. It’s damn’ useful having a reference C in the rack too…
I’m building out a whole case based around having them all. Might add doubles of some based on some racks I have seen. I went on a deep dive learning about all the various modules and it does feel like they are designed to compliment each other very well without forcing you to use it in any particular way.
I got one since the pre order and love it. Only gripe is sometimes when working with other oscillators it’s fine tune could use another fine tune…lol. Now I’m mostly using it as an oscillator driver for the 259e inspired osc from Sputnik. Really fun stuff. For 200$, I’d say it’s great compared to lets say the Make Noise STO.
Another option is the Pittsburgh Voltage Research lab, it's one of my fave pieces of gear and has the lot west coast oscillator with folding, func generators, vca's, lpgs and an analog delay. It was a limited run so would be difficult to acquire but Pittsburgh are working on the VRL 2 which will be widely available, they said there'll be a lot of differences with it so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it.
When I saw your comment I thought exactly the same thing. I have to say that when I saw the TipTop Buchla clone appearing I was also tempted to press the buy button, but i didn't after realising I have a similar dual oscillator (with more in there). I don't have a Voltage Research Lab, but I do have the Lifeforms SV-1b, which I suspect put side by side would give the Buchla copy a run for its money. Furthermore, there are some very good dual VCOs out there, some bigger, and some much smaller, but many have the same sonic qualities as a Buchla, quite simply because technology has moved on and it's possible to make similar modules. Lastly, I'm 100% sure this module is excellent, and that TipTop and Buchla have done a great job and really excelled at getting it onto the marketplace. However, it can be tempting to be pulled into the nostalgia option, rather than just go with the practical alternatives - if you see what I mean.
I really love mine can't dispute the tone of it is killer, I haven't really tried it as drum, gonna have to now! I'm gonna get my hands on the function generator need more adsr anyways, should be a nice pairing! Nice video cheers from America!
You're definitely making sense here, but would you really tell someone who wanted it not to buy it? First, it sounds like it definitely does all it claims to, and secondly I don't want the sales of this module to go down. Tiptop and buchla may be big names in the synth world but still need all the grassroots support they can get.. so yeah despite your honest and reasonable review, I still think folks should buy it if they want!!!! much love homie, keep the content.. great background tracks too :D
Octave switch: i remember hearing Dieter Doepfer saying octave switches are expensive to implement. I think this module is incredibly cheap. Size: This can only be a matter of personal preference. There's a trade of between hp efficiency and usability, and each person will have there own view on the matter. I also think you have to recognize that this isn't merely being shackled to the past. Human scale is the very essence of interface design, and if this is what Don wanted, you can bet he had a good reason.
actually from the look I do like the Eurorack version more then the Buchla version, but I've never played with Buchla gear, so I don't know anything about the playabilty..
agreed about octave switch. plus this thing was built for / mainly used for making far out sounds; not necessarily for pop/ western music / boring techno etc lol
Just as well that it was out-of-stock everywhere when you gave us all GAS for it, was it not? In the event, I needed another VCO and went for the ALM MCO, and I’m well pleased with it. And only 6hp too…
Don buchla said at some point decades ago he doesn’t understand why people would want these old circuits as are new ones that do same stuff as old ones but with new features. This module does what it is supposed to and I’m quite certain it has a bit of a learning curve to it judging against the make noise dpo. Modular synthesis is a black hole for money and buchla is no exception to this rule. You are getting a module for two hundred that normal people could never afford even if they could find. You want buchla sound? That is what it takes. You are basically paying for rights to use technology for fifty years ago. If you want something more, buy a proper buchla 200e system or verbos eurorack modules to get modern features.
Hi Niven I have looked at this 258t love the sound but if I could do DIY THONK do the Dannysound modules En 129 that with other DS modules sound as good , cheaper and smaller hp as an alternative so check them out Your in London I’m in Bromley SE approx your location?? Cheers🆒🎶🎶🎶🔱🕸⚡️🌟
EN129 kit is US $270 for one oscillator and 285t is $200 built for two oscillators. Two En 129's takes 24hp versus 18 for 285t with two oscillators. The 285t is a good deal.
Appreciate the vid and perspective. btw your mic is maybe mixed a little low compared to your background music, maybe dial down the music in the future. it was a little hard to understand you at times. cheers!
It may seem outdated because it’s a clone of an oscillator that’s been around longer than you have been. It’s not ever going to be a modern digital module.
both have somebody calls a redesign in the 1960s oscillator the worst oscillator it's a shame what you have to do when you need to get creative and think outside the box imagination creativity is in short supply these days
This is the Buchla 258t, if you want a competitive complex oscillator the magic word is 259. There is nothing wrong with the 258t although I would never buy it. So you made an error buddy, do your homework next time 😁
The background music is too loud and/or your voice too reverby otherwise great content!
if you're aware that this is a faithful recreation of the original Buchla 258 then why do you keep harping back to things it "needs" in 2022 lol. If there were a bunch of updates to make it fit into the modern eurorack landscape then it would no longer be a faithful recreation but just another modern reimagining of a Buchla oscillator
It cannot be a faithful recreation and a Eurorack module. Oxymoron. So his critique has good value.
@@Cantrip1957 yeah you can keep the basic circuitry and add some features. A lot of companies do that.
@@ericMT good reply. I must stop commenting when im unable to sleep
@@Cantrip1957 False. it is attempting to be as close to the original as the different format allows. What you're saying is silly, following your thought to its logical conclusion, it cannot be a faithful recreation, unless it is completely identical in every single way to the original, which would be a silly thing to do when there are a few basic improvements that can be made with some newer tech that don't affect the original design in any way other than to make it more reliable and long lasting. Also a lot of the analog stuff that went into these early synths is literally impossible to find now. Tiptop licensed the original designs from Buchla USA themselves, made only changes that were necessary for it to work in the slightly smaller format, with slightly different voltage requirements . . I think they did a pretty good job. In fact, to me, these modules have become more versatile due to the fact that audio and control voltage both use the same cables (unlike the original, which used different cables), thus allowing one to patch things that would be impossible to patch on the original. The whole point of these is to make as close to a faithful recreation of the original as the format allows. If they just started adding octave switches and other such features, it would basically have been useless to secure the licensing contract with Buchla in the first place. This guys critique does not have good value. If you want a more modern oscillator with octave switches and other features, they are plentiful. The whole idea of these is to revere the OG designs that Buchla himself made, as when you put all these into a system together, more or less youre putting yourself into a space of having to deal with the limitations that they create, which I think is really cool. Even as limited as some of these are, they are really quite versatile, but they make you think about patching/synthesis in a different way.. in the way maybe Buchla himself or. a Morton Subotnik may have thought about it. Or if you dont want to fully commit to old school, you can mix and match these with more recent additions, and create your own perfect hybrid design. The freedom and possibilities are endless, which is why its stupid for this guy to complain about octave switches and other features they dont have. Its like complaining about a bicycle bc it doesn't have a 150cc engine on it.. thats not why its built or what its built for .. if thats what you wanted , you should have thought about that before you purchased something that doesn't do the thing you want, and then complain it doesn't do what you already knew it wasn't made to do in the first place.
@@ericMT and a lot of companies HAVE done that, especially with the old buchla designs. The thing thats awesome about the tiptop ones is that they're as close as possible to the original thing that the different format would allow.
It's €200 and sounds amazing. No further questions your honour!
This is true.
The FM input is a linear FM with an attenuator. The processing input is an exponential FM with an attenuverter. When the processing input is close to full clockwise, it will perform close to v/oct range movement (but does not track v/oct). It's a great input for transposing your parts, or creating alternate harmonies and sequences. Buchla often had two pitch oriented inputs, which is what is happening here, and it's definitely part of the style/sound. It doesn't really overlap with the FM input function, regardless of the "format type" from the original.
This is the equivalent of complaining about a Blu-ray re-release of Seven Samurai being in black and white.
Haha totally fair, I love this module for what it is to be honest BUT i think a lot of people are making a buying decisions with this next to a load of more recent modules so it seemed like a point worth making to me!
Nice Video but little bit clickbait
Modern oscillators have a kitchen sink approach to them. Buchla and Serge have utility modules to help facilitate and even explore further.
If you do a survey of dual analog oscillators in the same class, 9 hp per oscillator is not above average. Among DCO's two Plaits take up 24 hp versus 18 hp for the two oscillators in the 285t. Plus you have two outputs per oscillator, so with a mix of wavefolders/filters you can have four voices and two of them can be an interval (octave if you like) above or below the other. In addition, it's only $100 per oscillator. Sounds amazing too! But, don't buy it, so I can get a 2nd one sooner :).
Didn't follow what your issue is with the FM and attenuverted cv input. Perhaps you can demonstrate?
What a great break down. I am already just happy with its sound, Buchla was a genius ahead of his time.
it's a buchla oscillator just like the original. its perfect the way it is. think you might have missed the point of it. horses for courses.
I can't understand what you said, just because of the music. It's too loud.
I bought a Mini Moog model D 2023 version and it’s monophonic …can you believe it!?
Appreciate the honesty! I feel like a lot of the issues are just issues that come with adapting a classic oscillator to a modern format. The Serge Random Source NTO has a lot of your same concerns but they just sound so damn good that the size and weirdness is worth it lol
You can make plaits go up and down in octaves if you hold the top right button and use the harmonic control. I know its not as simple as a switch, but its got more than just a 1 or 2 octave range that way. Also makes tuning plaits easier because the pitch knob becomes much less sensitive when the range is selected this way
With the latest firmware- the upgrade that introduced the third, orange, bank- Plaits does now have an octave knob. Frequency now gives you eight or nine Cs, from inaudible low to inaudible high. It’s damn’ useful having a reference C in the rack too…
backing music is really annoying. It just detracts from the video and makes it almost unbearable.
thanks for the information though. appreciated & subscribed.
I’m building out a whole case based around having them all. Might add doubles of some based on some racks I have seen. I went on a deep dive learning about all the various modules and it does feel like they are designed to compliment each other very well without forcing you to use it in any particular way.
Background music is really annoying when watching on a phone, please put some sidechain comp on it from the voice.
I got one since the pre order and love it. Only gripe is sometimes when working with other oscillators it’s fine tune could use another fine tune…lol. Now I’m mostly using it as an oscillator driver for the 259e inspired osc from Sputnik. Really fun stuff. For 200$, I’d say it’s great compared to lets say the Make Noise STO.
I appreciate you’re perspective thank you for sharing
Another option is the Pittsburgh Voltage Research lab, it's one of my fave pieces of gear and has the lot west coast oscillator with folding, func generators, vca's, lpgs and an analog delay. It was a limited run so would be difficult to acquire but Pittsburgh are working on the VRL 2 which will be widely available, they said there'll be a lot of differences with it so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it.
When I saw your comment I thought exactly the same thing. I have to say that when I saw the TipTop Buchla clone appearing I was also tempted to press the buy button, but i didn't after realising I have a similar dual oscillator (with more in there). I don't have a Voltage Research Lab, but I do have the Lifeforms SV-1b, which I suspect put side by side would give the Buchla copy a run for its money.
Furthermore, there are some very good dual VCOs out there, some bigger, and some much smaller, but many have the same sonic qualities as a Buchla, quite simply because technology has moved on and it's possible to make similar modules.
Lastly, I'm 100% sure this module is excellent, and that TipTop and Buchla have done a great job and really excelled at getting it onto the marketplace. However, it can be tempting to be pulled into the nostalgia option, rather than just go with the practical alternatives - if you see what I mean.
I really love mine can't dispute the tone of it is killer, I haven't really tried it as drum, gonna have to now! I'm gonna get my hands on the function generator need more adsr anyways, should be a nice pairing! Nice video cheers from America!
You're definitely making sense here, but would you really tell someone who wanted it not to buy it? First, it sounds like it definitely does all it claims to, and secondly I don't want the sales of this module to go down. Tiptop and buchla may be big names in the synth world but still need all the grassroots support they can get.. so yeah despite your honest and reasonable review, I still think folks should buy it if they want!!!! much love homie, keep the content.. great background tracks too :D
I use all inputs and outputs just fine. Great oscillator.
can't really hear you over backing track
Octave switch: i remember hearing Dieter Doepfer saying octave switches are expensive to implement. I think this module is incredibly cheap.
Size: This can only be a matter of personal preference. There's a trade of between hp efficiency and usability, and each person will have there own view on the matter.
I also think you have to recognize that this isn't merely being shackled to the past. Human scale is the very essence of interface design, and if this is what Don wanted, you can bet he had a good reason.
Great points, not sure about Don Buchla wanting this design for Eurorack..
@@el_dani aren't these modules produced with his involvement?
@@GeorgeLocke I don't know, he died 2016
actually from the look I do like the Eurorack version more then the Buchla version, but I've never played with Buchla gear, so I don't know anything about the playabilty..
agreed about octave switch. plus this thing was built for / mainly used for making far out sounds; not necessarily for pop/ western music / boring techno etc lol
Just as well that it was out-of-stock everywhere when you gave us all GAS for it, was it not? In the event, I needed another VCO and went for the ALM MCO, and I’m well pleased with it. And only 6hp too…
Don buchla said at some point decades ago he doesn’t understand why people would want these old circuits as are new ones that do same stuff as old ones but with new features. This module does what it is supposed to and I’m quite certain it has a bit of a learning curve to it judging against the make noise dpo. Modular synthesis is a black hole for money and buchla is no exception to this rule. You are getting a module for two hundred that normal people could never afford even if they could find. You want buchla sound? That is what it takes. You are basically paying for rights to use technology for fifty years ago. If you want something more, buy a proper buchla 200e system or verbos eurorack modules to get modern features.
None of my stuff has an octave switch! I feel left out?😂
😂I bought the ALM Chalkboard for that exact reason.🙃
Would be easier if there wouldn't be a random beat playing all the time 😂
A complaint we can get behind!.....
Hi Niven I have looked at this 258t love the sound but if I could do DIY THONK do the Dannysound modules En 129 that with other DS modules sound as good , cheaper and smaller hp as an alternative so check them out
Your in London I’m in Bromley SE approx your location??
Cheers🆒🎶🎶🎶🔱🕸⚡️🌟
EN129 kit is US $270 for one oscillator and 285t is $200 built for two oscillators. Two En 129's takes 24hp versus 18 for 285t with two oscillators. The 285t is a good deal.
What does he not like about it? Can’t really hear over all the music.
Easy with the click baity titles :)
Appreciate the vid and perspective. btw your mic is maybe mixed a little low compared to your background music, maybe dial down the music in the future. it was a little hard to understand you at times. cheers!
some feedback: the background music was too loud and interfered quite a lot with your voice. Other than that great vid!
It may seem outdated because it’s a clone of an oscillator that’s been around longer than you have been. It’s not ever going to be a modern digital module.
It does not sound just cool it sounds perfect.
I'll really pissed that you told me to go watch a different video!! I really like watching your videos.
Thanks man, please don't really leave :)
As much as the video was fun, none of these negative points are relevant when your getting a 200 quid legit buchla oscillator
can't hear ya
DO NOT click this video (please im begging you to click this video)
I bet Jimi Hendrix would of liked it ;)
thnx a lot!
How are you not embarrassed uploading this video? Wow!
both have somebody calls a redesign in the 1960s oscillator the worst oscillator it's a shame what you have to do when you need to get creative and think outside the box imagination creativity is in short supply these days
i want the bgm
Welcome to West Coast (United States) synthesis. It’s weird.
Background noises are louder than your voice
This is the Buchla 258t, if you want a competitive complex oscillator the magic word is 259. There is nothing wrong with the 258t although I would never buy it. So you made an error buddy, do your homework next time 😁
I seriously cannot hear what you’re saying sorry.
This better not be clickbait 😠😋
PS check out vidio by Tom Churchill Buchla sounding Waveshaping interesting
It seems like you aren’t familiar with West Coast synthesis or Buchla stuff in general so this review is moot.
can't hear anything you say. There's like parasites glitches sounds over your voice everywhere.
I can’t understand anything you’re saying.
Dude don't put choppy music over your voice, couldn't understand anything so I stopped watching
blabla blabla
This video could not be more annoying in every possible way