How FAST Can Ninetales Beat Pokémon Red?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2025
- Ninetales, one of the most majestic Pokémon, takes the stage in this optimized solo run. With limited moves as a stone evolution, can it perform in a Generation 1 speedrun of Pokémon Red?
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🍤 Solo Run Rules: 🍤
1️⃣ Only the title Pokémon can be used in battle. No switching; HM Pokémon are required.
2️⃣ No items in battle (Potions, TMs allowed outside battle).
3️⃣ No skips or exploits, including Pokedoll Marowak skip (badge boost glitch is unavoidable).
4️⃣ Double Team and Toxic TMs are banned (naturally learned versions are allowed).
5️⃣ Gameplay is at 3x speed; rankings are based on in-game time and resets.
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#Ninetales #PokemonChallenge #PokemonRed #speedrun
“If you’re one of those guys that gets upset that I didn’t show a rival battle, you might want to avert your eyes cause we will not be seeing rival number four today”
lmfao man your banter has gotten really good over the last year of doing these videos. Absolutely entertaining 😂
Thanks! Always trying to find a good balance while continuing to improve and grow at the same time. Appreciate that.
Fire blast has one of the coolest animations in gen 1. I didn't think Ninetales would do as well as it did based off the Scotts thoughts run. Pokemon yellow really is way different than red and blue.
Easier early, a few extra difficulties late for sure. Although I'm not sold on Giovanni being too bad. You can just survive Dugtrio, mimic Double Team and even the weakest Pokemon can do it but surf on Slowbro or a ground type on the champion team is rough.
But I'll evaluate both versions and put the Pokemon in the best position to have their best runs. Yellow is the solution for several runs!
Evolution stone AND extremely limited moveset is always a rough combo, so it was a nice surprise to see Ninetales still performing that well.
For sure. If you just understand that Double Edge can cut out multiple levels, you can make it pretty quick and consistent! Arcanine will likely be about the same but with more stats.
Being a fast and bulky mon like Ninetales is pretty underrated for challenges like these. It’s always great to hear about the optimizations that make a run like this happen. As for why there’s no TM for Flamethrower in Gen 1, maybe they just wanted to make Fire Blast “really special”. They probably could’ve made a TM for Flamethrower in Victory Road since that’s where Moltres is.
I think what it all boils down to is that they probably just didn't think about it.
Thanks for the chuckle at 9:15.
Speaking of Ninetales, while most of the Johto arc of the anime was forgettable for me, the episode where Brock met a ghost Ninetales (Just Waiting on a Friend) was one that I particularly enjoyed.
Guard Spec. brought to you by Silph! Man, I can't even remember the Johto arc. They had the first season on Netflix and I watched it years back though.
Ninetails has really grown on me since they added weather to both variants. They're both just so cool!
Yea the Alolan version is going to be a monster of a run. It’s Gen 8 learnset has it all.
Ninetails looks like it has nine lives with its grace in taking down the competition. Considering how it did, I really wonder just how insane a flamethrower would bolster it. Btw loved the haunting soundtrack edit at Agatha’s battle. simple and effective!
A flamethrower at level 40~ would probably knock it's time down several minutes at minimum. If it was like Charmander to Charizard and got EQ upgrade over Dig then that would also save a minute or two. If it got a psychic move like future gens then that's probably even more time.
I'm about to start looking into my cross gen runs for Sun/Moon and Alolan Ninetales will be nutty.
I really dug this run. I certainly wasn't expecting Ninetales to do well, but you really developed a clutch strat that worked out well for Gyarados. And using a move like Double Edge that doesn't see a lot of action too, that was cool. I like that you operate outside of the usual box a good amount of the time, whether it's stuff like that, the egg runs, etc
That’s a good compliment! Yea it allowed me to shave off the consistent 5 levels it would take body slam to do the same or 2 levels if I was going to just take a few extra resets. Rest and double edge is a legit time save and it’s sad you don’t see people use it more.
Love this kitsune fox. I always felt like flamethrower TM was overlooked with Fire blast. Really too bad bc I'll always have a soft spot for the Gen 1 fire types.
Nice video as usual! Keep it up!
Thanks! I'll keep at it!
My theory on why there's no flamethrower is because they looked at the three starters and thought if you teach your water pokémon surf it can't forget it. And there's no flamethrower for grass types so they didn't want to give flamethrower to the fire starter to make it even
Surf is OP, better not give anyone else anything! Haha. I think they probably just didn't think about it.
Giovanni must own stock in Silph or something. He's always quick to plug their merch.
Definitely. He's at least a majority shareholder.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 the raid on Silph HQ was either an attempted coup, or just a farce to get their name in the paper. Game Freak teaching a generation of business moguls, smh
I wish sometimes in later gens they'd have given Ninetales a similar treatment to Arcanine (i.e. Boosting the special attack and leaving spdef as it was in gen 1) like Ninetales is so cool I wish they made it better
I think it was pretty solid!
Im guessing they just capped tms at 50 to finish and decided not to add anymore fire moves to the tm list. Also love the shout out! Keep the awesome playthroughs coming. Thank you!
For sure. They couldn't fit it in with hard hitting and valuable TMs like Egg Bomb, Soft-Boiled, and Razor Wind hanging around. And no problem, brother.
Always loved Ninetails purely on looks.
Was always jealous of Blue players for being able to get it and victereebel as a kid.
Gotta get those trades in!
My favourite mon! Thank you for these videos.
Thanks for watching!
The optimisation on Lance was definitely *chefs kiss*, great run GLM
Oh yea, I've had comments say it was useless and I've seen multiple solo runners say they hate the recoil and won't utilize it but I think you are doing an objectively worse run if you don't look at all the tools available.
For the channel growth bro
Appreciate that, brother.
Brother that was a damn good run Ninetails was a Pokémon I always used as a kid. Great too see it be use to its full potential. As always I enjoy the content 🤙🏻
Thanks. Yea, I'm not sure how much better it could be. I poured several runs into it and Double Edge has got to be the quickest route.
No flamethrower tm always felt weird. I can't come up with a good reason why they left it out other than just F it. Great job on the disrespect at the end lol
Lmao, the Fire Blast at the end? It was the only way to end the video. My thoughts on why they didn't add it was simply because they didn't think about it.
Finally a day off so I can curl up with a sodie pop and watch
Sounds like a solid day!
I never realized flame thrower wasn't a TM in gen 1. I thought it was just so useless during then that no one used it.
It’s not in Gen 2 either lol.
Just to mess with Matt a little:
Fox Mommy
Lmao, how does that mess with me? Have I said I hate the word mommy before? Hell, I've named Pokemon mommy before.
I think they forgot flamethrower because the Devs weren't as invested as people think they were, tonnes of oversight making a Gameboy game was standard practice at the time.
They didn't know that Pokémon would blow up into what it is today
I think there's truth in that. They just didn't think about it and didn't seem to like fire types much outside of Charizard.
I always thought that Iron Tail is like the best move for Ninetales, cause it should be like 9 hits in one blow ;)
9 hits, miss 8 of them with 75% accuracy lol.
I honestly enjoy the ol' Tombstoner, Brother thing.
Glad you do!
I mean honestly... I think Flamethrower isn't a TM in Gen 1 purely because they forgot to add it.
The only 2 Fire types that don't learn the move naturally are Moltres and the Ponyta line so I can easily see them overlooking it without realizing that both Arcanine and Ninetales could also lock themselves out of the move by evolving too early.
They didn’t even add anything close to a tm until the 3rd game of gen 2 and gen 3 was the first TM of it. It’s an odd choice for sure.
Ninetales should be able to learn physic, just my humble opinion.
In hindsight for sure but remember that it does learn psychic moves these days.
physics is a complicated subject though-- lots of math and calculations and formulas...but if Ninetales REALLY puts its mind to it and stays in school, then theres No Limit to what it can learn...
:-P
Would have been a great candidate for a fire/ psychic type to mirror the water and grass mixed psychic types.
Should have done a gen 9 or Unova variant but I guess Alolan Ninetales is all they wanted to do.
Another great video GLM! Without Flamethrower I thought the run was gonna be SUPER difficult, but you managed it really well!
Optimizing is a thing of beauty!
Wow Ninetales kicked some major ass. It's one of my all time favorite Pokemon. Glad I stumbled upon this video. This was awesome. Good stuff man. 🙌
Glad you found it too and glad you enjoyed it! I had fun with this one and it was definitely a surprise. It did well.
Congrats on the 15k subs Matt, keep up the good runs!
Thanks! I'm waiting for 18k for a milestone since I started solo running on my dead channel at like 9k subs so I don't even count those. When we double it up, I'm ready to celebrate!
Yeahhhh!!!!! Sundays start at noon for me now lol NEINTEILS
Nice. Hope you enjoy.
Miles "Tails" Prower did a pretty solid run 👌
Yea, it was better than I expected!
Tombstoner brother!!
Appreciate that, brother.
I personally believe that Flamethrower was a seriously underused move in gen 1. If I am remembering correctly, Moltres doesn't even learn Flamethrower. I feel like it was more of an oversight in development rather than a deliberate decision.
Either way... awesome run!! Thanks for the great content.
Ponyta/Rapidash doesn't get it either. I think with Moltres it was a coding bug but it's not confirmed but the bytes for Leer and Flamethrower are just the reverse of each other.
My guess is they ran out of room for making Flamethrower a TM after rounding out the list with important moves like TM37(Egg Bomb) and TM41(Softboiled)
Just wanted to add your editing it's looking good, dude.
Thanks! I buckled down and put some more work into things. I think I'll have solidified the process soon but I said the same thing in other comments. The game definitely would have fell apart if they didn't have hard hitting TMs like Egg Bomb, Razor Wind, and Softboiled.
Loving the runs Matt!
Thanks! Appreciate it.
Love seeing how well you planed for Gyarados!
Oh yea, it's always the best part to me. Figuring out and working backwards when you find the biggest threats for the run.
Great lateral thinking with double edge! Great run
Thanks! I thought so too. It allowed me to save 2-5 levels which is a lot of grinding and time.
Tombstoner brother! It was a nice run. Ponyta isnt your favourite but now you kinda have to do it after Vulpix and Ninetales.
I'm going to do all runs outside of the few that can't beat the game!
I'm a fan of this fun and fetching fire fox
Love the alliteration!
Finally! Been dying for this one since the vulpix stream.
Haha, a whole 2 days?
@GymLeaderMatt1987 what can I say, Matt... patience isn't my strong suit😂
Admitting it is the first step!
Love the work you do man!
Thanks, appreciate that!
I’d like to see a full review of the current tier list tbh. Haven’t been able to watch everything and probably won’t but nice to see how all they all stack up
The tier list is in a bit of shambles atm. The Cubone redo made me see that my tiers and ranks were just off so we have like 15~ runs to redo. When I get to like 70ish runs I'll likely do a video but I am going to change it up very soon when I get some time to work on it. It'll be a different style but same rankings, etc.
I think not having Flamethrower is due to the game's intended routing. By the time you get to Blaine, Flamethrower isn't insanely strong like Thunderbolt is after you beat Surge, so they made Fire Blast the TM of choice for Gym 7. I think it's a fairly major oversight but Gen 1 has a lot of quirks. Great run!
Hell yea. It should be a mid game move like the others imo. Find it in the Safari Zone or the Celadon Mart to be on par with the others.
How can one Nine have so many tales???? The world may never know...
I’ve always like the wordplay with the name.
Really surprising run for real ❤
Yea, it was solid.
The last fire blast against Blastoise was so badass!!!
Now that’s a lot of damage!
Ninetales really swept most of this game. A testament both to its power and to your ability to optimize, I think.
Yea, it has solid stats and going through worse runs really teaches you how to get past those challenges.
Neat name reference. 6 or 7 tails too many though, I think
You mean Tails has 7 tails too little.
Another foxy run? Helll yeah, brother.
Hell yea to that.
Always loved Ninetails in Gen 1. Btw, what do you think about a “What if” series where you fix one glaring issue with a Pokémon in Gen 1 and see how well they do? For example moveset additions for stone evos, Onix actually having an attack stat, etc. lol
I've done similar videos with egg move runs and they just never go that well. I think there's too much wiggle room and what if's for the core audience to really be super interested sadly and you have to listen to what the views and analytics tell you.
Love the evolved pokemon runs
Glad you like them. I enjoy all the runs lmao.
You’ve grown so much 🙏🏾😊😊👍🏾
The same as everyone else! One day at a time!
I don't know, I really think flamethrower could have been Blane's TM, and fire blast could have been a TM instead of something like Double Edge or Take Down or one of the plethora of other normal type TMs that almost no one uses and could have been found near moltres.
I'm with you on most things but Double Edge has saved several runs of mine with the massive base power equal to EQ and the 100% accuracy. I don't love it, but it's been necessary and I think other solo runners not using it slows their times down.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 well take down could probably go then it's just worse double-edge. Very few things learn it that can't just learn body slam anyways
Razor Wind, Egg Bomb, and Soft-Boiled are the first ones to go, imo.
I get the impression that the devs really overvalued the extra power of the 120 base power moves. They come really late (Cinnabar/Power Plant), have to be searched for and have huge tradeoffs, whereas moves like Dig and Thunderbolt get shoved down the player's throat quite early on. I can imagine a scenario where they didn't include a Flamethrower TM because they didn't think the players would want one.
Yea, I think it's likely they just didn't think about it. I mean not even all the fire types learn Flamethrower. Ponyta, Rapidash and Moltres are just like where's my move at?
Well, in Moltres' case, it wasn't just that they didn't give it good fire moves, but that they didn't give it any good moves at all. Sky Attack is another one of those big power moves that they clearly overvalued.
So many clutch moments by Ninetales. I can't wait to see how the Alolan version does.
It's going to be nutty. No moves on level up to slow it down and it's gen 8 learnset offers enough to let it potentially dominate. It'll be a fun one.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 Looking at the Gen8 movelist, if you are just picking 4 from there, Ice Fox has everything it needs to be top-tier, especially if you are thinking to swap Amnesia for Nasty Plot. With the Chansey Rule in effect, A-Ninetales still gets 100 Special for Offense but then gets 9 extra Speed.
@@travisalexander6440 I think you are understanding what I'm throwing down. Alolan Raichu looks to be the early favorite for a very, very good run though but Ninetales has it all too.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 If you are counting its "Evolve" move as an option, then A-Raichu has everything it needs early, as well. If not, then it gets all of its tricks eventually, but you will need the 75%-accurate Iron Tail to get through Brock (I look forward to you whiffing, lol). Expected endgame set of Psychic, Thunderbolt, Amnesia (Nasty Plot), Filler (Surf?) should be a smooth ride.
Flamethrower didn't have the chance to make it because they needed the slot for Tombstoner b0rther
Yea, and things like Egg Bomb that are pivotal to most runs success.
Reported for that violence against eggxecutor
Damn, RIP my channel.
Ninetails should have gotten higher stats in later gens, on par with Arcanine. It’s the version exclusive mirror.
I thought it did get a slight buff but the difference is in the leveling group. I’ll take lower stats for a much faster leveling group any day.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 That’s a great point. It spoils Ninetails for competitive, but I gave that up long ago.
All about the solo runs for me these days.
Routing exp and vitamins around using double edge on gyarados is a true pro play
I might not be the best in terms of commentary/editing/etc. but my routing is second to none!
Your recording software glitched during the Lavender Town and Pokémon Tower section?
*creepypasta intensifies*
Taking breaks leads to a situation where I hit my ‘pause button’ where the keybind is for retroarch, obs, and for the timer if I’m playing something like crystal. Sometimes it desyncs and the game won’t pause while the recording does or something of that nature and in this case the game paused but the recording was still going. Sad to see! I try to watch for it but sometimes it skips through.
He accidently pulled one of Ninetails tails and lost footage as it's curse.
Luckily for him Ninetails was tired that day and didn't really put much power into this curse.
was just thinking yesterday id like to see how ninetails would do, exicted for this one :) not sure why they didnt have a flamethrower tm, my guess would be the 30% burn rate on fire blast was supposed to compensate for the lower accuracy. fireblast and flamethrower would be too op for fire types?
I think it's just an oversight. Hell even gen 2 doesn't have a Flamethrower TM despite the other stuff plus new things like Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb having TMs. I just think fire types didn't get a lot of though. Slap a Gyarados on Lance and hope people don't use them lol.
Come for the cool runs, stay for the TOMBSTONER BROTHER!!!
There's a tombstoner in all of us.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 oh hell yeah!
Imagine if Tombstoner was actually a strong ghost-type move in Gen 1? Might’ve been semi-useful for the Gengar line! Certainly better than Lick 🤣🤣
Tombstoner would just be Dig! That's the joke of it all!
Ninetales dominated this game! Almost 0 resets too, but just 1 reset is pretty good!
Yea, for me 1-2 resets are just rng. Maybe even 3. There's lots of times you can get bad luck or get crit and there's nothing you can do.
I found your videos a few days ago theyre really great, have a comment
Appreciate that, brother.
Perhaps they didn't make a flamethrower TM due to some kind of limitation in the game? A limit on number of items or of specifically TMs based on their restrictive applicability to certain Pokémon?
It could also be that they didn't have a good place to put it prior to Blaine and felt weird giving a "weaker" fire tm after him giving Fire Blast.
Nah, they didn't do one for gen 2 either. I think they just didn't think about it.
After getting thunderbolt so early by the 3rd gym and effectively getting psychic, ice beam, rock slide, tri attack amd surf all before facing the 4th gym i dont know why flamethrower couldnt be found in radiotower or game corner underground. In fact maybe safari zone was the best spot. Seeing how by the time we reach blaine they decided to give the stronger fire move
Yea Safari Zone or replace Tri Attack with it and put it in the Safari zone is what I thought too.
Ninetales truly deserves some buffs in Gen 10 in the future. Maybe a bit more speed and special attack or something, a higher movepool.
Oh yea. I think the buff was making a different form and forgetting about the Kanto version haha.
I don’t know why flamethrower wasn’t a TM. Sorry. 🙃
14:07 Nine Tailed TOMBSTONER BROTHER!
The best one yet!
Good stuff mon frere
Thanks!
tbh it seems like they didnt care about fire types in gen 1 at all. looking forward to how this goes!!
I don't think it's negligence of the type but likely they didn't put any thought into it at all. Par for the course for a lot of the little things.
I think its mostly due to most if not all of the fire pre-evolutions having it as a learned skill. Like you mention surf, not learned without HM and Ice beam I dont think is on most ice type lists as a natural learn either...but idk..
Well there aren’t many fire types. I think it was a mistake since leer and flamethrower are very similar in the code.
In gen 1 the only fire type lines that don't have access to flamethrower via level up are ponyta and oddly enough moltres. That's probably why they don't get a tm for flamethrower. It's also not a particularly good coverage type either. Compare that to water types that don't get a 95 bp option naturally and all have to fix it with an hm.
I'd argue Flamethrower coverage for desperate Lorelei fights is decent and since you get it mid game like the others it would help Erika and more importantly it would be an option for Exeggutor. I think it's something clearly missing from the game and it's been every game since gen 3! Crystal as well if you count move tutor.
I honestly didn't expect Ninetails to do as well as it did. It still bugs me to this day that Flamethrower isn't a TM in gen 1. You ever think of modding it into the game for consistency?
Nah, I'm too many runs in to introduce something that big into the game. I have no interest in changing the flow of runs outside of tiny quality of live things.
Commenting for 1 of my fave OG mon's (and the algorithm)
I think it was part oversight and part logic that Flamethrower wasnt a tm. Few early mons can even learn flamethrower besides Charmander since most fire types arent around until Blaine's gym... and they prolly didnt want to introduce flamethrower near gym 4 anyway. Ice beam is also super effective but is mainly learned by water types who are a risk against Erika
I don't know about the logic of not wanting to introduce it in the mid game. You can get Pyschic, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Surf, Ice Beam, Body Slam, and Dig by that time. This is a case of Occam's razor and I think the simplest answer that they just didn't think about it is probably correct.
i forgot to comment so i am jus going to say that my favorite type is the psychic type.
Nice. Good choice!
No flamethrower TM because they hated fire types in Gen 1
Sounds like the correct answer, lmao.
I like the Gen 2 visuals
Yea the colors are nice.
Is it bad that Ninetales may be my favorite 1st-Gen Pokemon? And probably high in my top five for all Pokemon?
Anyway, Ninetales is one heck of a Special sweep. In 1st Gen as well, Ninetales can even tank Special moves pretty well; apparently, its Special Defense is better than its Spec.Atk in later generations, too! It's usually a pain to wait till Vulpix gets Flamethrower -- especially if you catch a Vulpix that doesn't have Ember -- but it's well worth it for Ninetales. I usually get one as soon as I first leave Lavender Town.
And yeah, it's really weird they didn't have a Flamethrower TM! They have one for Bubblebeam and Thunderbolt, but no Flamethrower? Chances are they skipped it because by the time you reach Blaine, the mid-tier Fire move might've seemed underwhelming? You do get Bubblebeam and Thunderbolt early on from Misty and Surge, after all.
Your favorites are your favorites. It’s not bad at all lol.
Pretty sure there is no flamethrower TM because they forgot about it lol
Seems like a highly likely result lol.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 curious as to why you skipped the rare candy in the wardens house
Video description for addendums.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 never knew you posted stuff there 😂
Not every video but I wrote down some mistakes for this one.
We need a run with sandslash. 100% crit slash
You'll probably see it the second half of the year. I have to redo Sandshrew and doing it on stream a couple of days before Sandslash feels good lol.
@Gym Leader Matt worth the wait if done as a video just like the ninetales one and not a live stream.
@@yashjoshi8353 It's rare to see a solid run just be a one off stream. Maybe some middle stages in the future like Pidgeotto, Nidorino/Ninorina but not for something new. I meant Sandshrew stream.
@Gym Leader Matt oh, that's totally fine as well. But if you are doing sandslash, please do it as a video. 🩵🩵
In hindsight it's weird af that flamethrower's not a thing, but back in the day it seemed weird to me when it became one. Like it was undeserved to learn it via TM
It wasn’t added until Crystal version and even then it was a post game move tutor move.
TOMBSTONER, BROTHER!
Appreciate that, brother.
Oh look... my favorite gym leader
Blaine?
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 no, it's you, gym leader Matt!
Nice. Appreciate that!
One of my favorite Pokémon.
It's a good one but sadly did not perform well view-wise.
When you say “85% is really 50% accuracy” just wondering if this has been tested and is the hit rate actually 85% or is this another mathematics glitch in R/B?
Liking and commenting for the sodie pop algo
No, it's not a glitch, it's just how it feels and how the odds always seem to work. Like the computer just hits Wrap 15 times consecutively but you can't hit a battle changing Fire Blast to save your life lol.
Ninetales is a true boss!
I think the lack of any TM for Flamethrower is mostly oversight. Consider how Water has not just Surf as a high end move, but also Water Gun and Bubblebeam TMs. There's no Ember or Vine Whip TM in early game, and no high end Grass attack for the high power, high accuracy archetype between Giga Drain and Solar Beam at all. Grass, Bug, Flying, Fighting, Ghost, Rock, and Dragon have no equivalent to Flamethrower, Surf, Earthquake, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Psychic. The closest Fighting even has is Submission.
Grass has a couple of decent moves but Petal Dance is a signature move for Vileplum and it's a Thrash clone. There are good fighting moves but Hitmonlee has them all as signature moves as well. There were lots of things clearly not thought out but it's interesting to pick apart.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 I think the fact that you're clearly intended to learn Flamethrower on level up with basically every major Fire type also plays into it. Maybe they thought it was redundant to make a TM for something that all the Fire types were supposed to just get anyway at some point.
Though again, that makes the Water Gun TM even funnier.
There's not a whole lot of fire types in gen 1 in general and the Ponyta line doesn't learn it at all and Moltres doesn't either so idk about that.
One thing I started doing in my run Matt instead having to catch a pokémon to surf I just grabbed Eevee and buy a water stone and then you have your pokémon I can learn surf right there you never have to catch anything and take that time
Not a bad idea! I'm a little ahead in videos but I think the great ball buy when you are shopping, into the good rod, into fishing might be a little faster since you have to wrap around and go up all the floors for it but I'll test it out. The huge drawback might be the 2100 cost of the stone. Generally the vitamin routing is tight but if it ever works out, it is something to think about.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 yeah you do a lot more optimization than I do. Mine are a sit down first time try. And if I know I need a water type it's quick. I also don't get vitamins until later on so that water stone cost doesn't hit my pokedollars like it does youra. Just a thought give it a try see if it works.
I'll keep it in mind. Yea, all of my modern runs are the best of 3 runs with really heavy optimizations. I guess it would come down to the time loss but there might be a fit for it!
Tombstoner brothear!!
Flamethrower likley didn’t have a TM because there was a limited amount of items there could be, I believe it would be 255 (FF) since that’s the max in a single byte. However, there was a garbage unused item, so I guess they just really only wanted 50 TMs. I am curious why submission was a tm though.
Or Razor Wind, Whirlwind, Egg Bomb, or Soft-Boiled. I bet they just didn't think about it.
Generation 1 didn't have a flamethrower tm the same way moltres couldn't learn both flamethrower and fire blast via level up. Fire types just felt like an afterthought in generation 1 overall in terms of being a defensive type, offensive type and moveset
I think Moltres was likely a coding error since Leer and Flamethrower are very similar in their bytes but you are right, it was likely an afterthought and they didn't think much about it.
They’ve always been. Gen 3 has only 2 non starter/legendary Fire type lines despite having a gym leader dedicated to it. Gen 4 has 0, literally. Gen 2 only has Magcargo and Magby…
maybe the devs thought a flamethrower TM would be to powerful. even though BoltBeam is the power combo we all love, the Devs probably thought giving access to Flamethrower to mons like clefable, nidoking and chansey would be too powerful
With Electric and Ice being much better coverage, I'm going to say that it's likely they just didn't think about it.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 I can't really say for sure, but I don't think the developers truly tried to balance the typings in red/green, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they considered fire strong. if you think about the starters and their same type tms, you see something of a pattern. two 40 base power moves of water gun and mega drain, and then strong moves of each type in solarbeam, surf and fire blast. and nothing really in between. yes would've made more sense if ember and hydro pump were tms, but still
Fire blast ftw!
Would have loved flamethrower but you work with what you got!
tombstoner 👏
A tombstoner to you and yours!
I always thought Ninetales was cool but as a kid I never learned the stone evolutions
They are interesting. Seemingly designed to be utilized as a stat boost after you learn the moves from the earlier form.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 old strategy guides and books, even the original "pokedex" book, always point out that many pokemon learn moves at earlier levels, and some don't learn moves after evolution. They tried to make it a big up front deal way back.
Yea, they might even say it in game but after 1k runs, I'm not listening to NPC text ever again.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 lmao I get you there. I play the Megaman Legends series about once a year, and I probably haven't seen a cutscene or actually read dialogue in that series in at least 20 years lmao. Still remember the plot! But I just want the mechanical gameplay lol.
There was a lot of oversights in gen 1, lets face it. Pretty likely they forgot a Flamethrower TM.
I think that's precisely what happened or more likely they just never even thought of it because it's not in gen 2 either.
Clearly the reason there isn't a flamethrower tm is so that they could make space on the ROM for an egg bomb tm. The game simply wouldn't be the same without it.
Or soft-boiled. Clearly a TM that only Mew can really benefit from is important considering you couldn't even legitimately get it.
@@GymLeaderMatt1987 honestly I don't think pokemon would have survived as a franchise without those two tms. Truly an enlightened decision by the developers to include them.
I have never read a statement with such boldness yet so securely tied to the facts and data of the pokemon world
Lmao, you guys might see Egg Bomb in a run again in the future. I can't promise though.
still waiting for that loppunny run
Keep waiting! It’s close!