At last!! A logical approach to the problem of using electricity generated by renewables in excess of demand. Small ammonia plants in widely separated places can produce fertilizers close to where they are needed. Ammonia made from renewable electricity can directly replace ammonia made from fossil fuels.
Hardly a miracle process though I would have to do the chemistry equations for it but seat of the pants will tell you that it’s one of the worst things to do with electricity the amount of loss to end up back where you started from with electricity to power let’s say a cell tower like in this example I imagine you probably only get 20% of the original renewable electricity Only viable if you have renewable electricity that is not used and with otherwise not be generated in the first place
Ammonia looks like it's the dream fuel for hydrogen fuel cells, apparently no harmful wastes released! I'd be more interested in knowing how they got the hydrogen to separate from the nitrogen, and what if the ammonia container started to leak?
Im also curious about the production process. Just an uneducated speculation, but I think there could be some blowback, as far as wastes, on that end of things.
Ammonia is by far the best refrigerant in use today, but I think it is exceptionally bad as a fuel source. It is energy-intensive to create ammonia to begin with. In this particular case with fuel cells a second process must be utilized to break that ammonia down to its components again before it can be used as a fuel, which equates to even higher costs. When ammonia is burned as a fuel in a combustion engine the exhaust stinks and it is dirty too. Ammonia causes metal to become brittle as well, but the biggest detriment to its use is that people freak out when they smell ammonia, even at extremely low concentrations. I like ammonia and worked with it more than twenty years, but believe it will always have limited uses.
@0:30: ammonia isn't a liquid fuel, but a gas at normal (atmospheric) pressure and temperature. But yes, unlike hydrogen, it can be kept liquid at modest pressures or temperatures: With 7.5 bar at 20°C, or with minus 33°C at atmospheric pressure (1 bar).
lol no anhydrous ammonia is super dangerous they wont even sell it to you without a license and regular inspection of facilities this is more for industrial or off limits stuff like the application in the video
What is the efficiency of this method? For example, assuming I start with 100 kWh of electrical energy, I use this energy to produce a certain amount of hydrogen from the electrolysis of water, and then hydrogen is combined with nitrogen to form ammonia, how much energy is left after the process that is described by the video?
“Currently, the round-trip efficiency of liquid ammonia is 11-19%, which is similar to the values of liquid hydrogen of 9-22%” source The Chemical engineer.
Noticed that, did you? Likely there is a molecular membrane too fine for the nitrogen to pass through that shunts it off to some manner of storage and venting (it cannot be freely vented or the hydrogen would just flow out with it). The hydrogen passes through the mesh and combined with atmospheric oxygen. So, instead of global warming, we get global suffocation as more things use oxygen for power and the rain forests are cut down for biodiesel production. And... free nitrogen combining with oxygen in a free radical state creates Nitrous Oxide which is even more potent a greenhouse gas than even methane, depending on its stability in free atmosphere.
@@Zeratul187 no, unlike ammonia, pure hydrogen and nitrogen are much harder to liquify, needs extremely high pressure and low temperature. The nitrogen gas are much heavier than H2, they should be vented below the containment. That mistake is so elementary.
Dude just came from other video about blue ammonia. Japan has been importing blue ammonia from saudi arabia aramco. They are going to be doing something on it soon.
you buy it from the industrial plant that is synthetizing it from methane, nitrogen and / or hydrogen from water split electrolysis. and you keep buying it.
@@hardwaresoftware3131 that bits easy, heat the liquid. Le chatelier's principle will allow the reverse reaction of NH3 ->N2 + H2 to happen. But as you note, I would like to know which catalyst they are using.
Really interesting stuff, but what are the economics here? Factoring in the total cost of the system vs the lifetime hours (would assume these things aren't going to last 40,000 hours) then what is the added cost per kWh? For instance with 5kw output, if the system costs $50k more than a diesel generator and it's good for 10,000 hours before needing a new one then that's adding $1 per Kwh over diesel. Great for the environment but in terms of initial cost outlay and lifetime hours what are we talking here? Would be fantastic if the math looked promising!
The more detailed TCO modelling is usually required for particular cases, but for mission-critical operations (construction, remote off-grid permanent or temporary telco sites, military etc.) this would do the trick. Ammonia and hydrogen, in particular, won't solve all energy problems but they will provide quite workable and, as we progress with the scale, economic alternative to diesel generators or similar.
@@Stealthsilent1337 In case you mean this in a negative way, I wanted to clear up why this is actually fine; it may have 40% the energy of gasoline, but it allows us to produce electricity, which can be used much more efficiently for work than gasoline can. Gasoline can only be converted to work at around 35% efficiency at most right now in a car engine, while the cracked ammonia (Hydrogen) can be converted to electricity quite efficiently, over 90%. This makes ammonia viable for use as an alternative fuel equivalent to gasoline but with the benefits you get out of electric motors, like regenerative braking and lower cooling drag. Also, converting from multi-fossil fuel sources (natural gas, coal, oil, gasoline, diesel) to just ammonia and electricity gives you much more reliable infrastructure as the specialization leads to efficiency improvements in logistics, construction, maintenance, management, and science/engineering. Hope this helps.
Then why was it outlawed as a refrigerant ten years ago? It is banned as a none CFC refrigerant but it is good to contain hydrogen and flood into our atmospher? Sounds just like every other environmental ruling to me!
There's nothing much new about ammonia. It's been used as a refrigerant for a very long time, and has been very useful in various industries. We shouldn't get too excited about it.
@OMG OMG you guys dont talk the same language xD. You talk about pure hydrogen. The other guy asks about water. As seen in the video, when you got hydrogen and oxygen you can combine them which will generate energy and water (h2o). If you now want to split the water again, you need to input the same (or more) energy that you just generated to get pure hydrogen and pure oxygen. That's why you can't use water for this process. It's the "low energy end product" not the "high energy start product".
@OMG OMG whilst I agree that using ammonia is superior in principle, the safety of it is somewhat disputable. Ammonia is irritating with high concentration exposure leading to skin and organ damage or even death. So safety needs to be thoroughly considered in situations where the container might be compromised.
@@levi4979 You can also vent a small amount and have it flash from static electricity or some unseen source. If you are burning pure hydrogen you probably wouldn't even see the flame, but you'll sure feel the heat.
Does that mean the energy of the in-statu-nascendi Nitrogen is just thrown away? Ammonia should deliver over 1200 kJ/kg of energy with 4 NH₃ + 3 O₂ → 2 N₂ + 6 H₂O(g) Is there further research being carried out?
My question is "Can it cause Nitrous oxide from the process? Nitrous oxide can cause global warming more than CO2 300 times!!! 😰😰I know that in the ideal fuel cell system it's work!!However, Have you tested with old system that can possible leak? Do O2 could possible mix and cause Nitrous oxide?
PEM-fuel cells don't produce NOx or N2O. NOx and N2O are problems, when you combust ammonia in internal combustion engines, but not with low-temperature fuel cells.
And how did you get Ammonia? => From Methan... So it is Methan => Ammonia => Hydrogen... And H2 in H2/H20 cell.engines usually comes directly to Methan... So only for storage and transportation is Ammonia better, because otherwise, it is still not a "green" solution as it still rely on fossil energy source
That is the most common method, yes, however it is possible to produce through multiple catalytic processes powered off green electrical sources. The base components are just hydrogen and nitrogen, after all.
The other day I objected against nitrogen lighter than hydrogen and gravitational separation of the two species. But now I realize why there are so few comments here. You remove those that are not to your liking. This makes it less likely that I will invest in your operation.
You sent me a message that maybe I posted on the wrong site. Maybe so, in that case please forgive me for being rude. Still, there are two problems here: th-cam.com/video/drdDt1ski1I/w-d-xo.html
@@sagebias2251 For my part GenCell is free to to whatever they want with my comment. I am still certain that their description of the process is pure fantasy. So I predict that you will have to wait indefinitely for a prototype to materialize.
Hahaha GenCell scammer pioneer 😂 GenCell the most strategic scammer on the planet, came back to life with another project of scamming 🤣 Give them a medal of honor for scamming please 😁
At last!! A logical approach to the problem of using electricity generated by renewables in excess of demand. Small ammonia plants in widely separated places can produce fertilizers close to where they are needed. Ammonia made from renewable electricity can directly replace ammonia made from fossil fuels.
Hardly a miracle process though I would have to do the chemistry equations for it but seat of the pants will tell you that it’s one of the worst things to do with electricity the amount of loss to end up back where you started from with electricity to power let’s say a cell tower like in this example I imagine you probably only get 20% of the original renewable electricity Only viable if you have renewable electricity that is not used and with otherwise not be generated in the first place
this animation is absolutely mind blowing...
Music spoils it though
Ammonia looks like it's the dream fuel for hydrogen fuel cells, apparently no harmful wastes released! I'd be more interested in knowing how they got the hydrogen to separate from the nitrogen, and what if the ammonia container started to leak?
Im also curious about the production process. Just an uneducated speculation, but I think there could be some blowback, as far as wastes, on that end of things.
@@marklar53 apparently the idea is to use the waste products for farming and fertilization so there’s no waste at all.
music of background so loud
Too loud.
Ammonia is by far the best refrigerant in use today, but I think it is exceptionally bad as a fuel source. It is energy-intensive to create ammonia to begin with. In this particular case with fuel cells a second process must be utilized to break that ammonia down to its components again before it can be used as a fuel, which equates to even higher costs. When ammonia is burned as a fuel in a combustion engine the exhaust stinks and it is dirty too. Ammonia causes metal to become brittle as well, but the biggest detriment to its use is that people freak out when they smell ammonia, even at extremely low concentrations. I like ammonia and worked with it more than twenty years, but believe it will always have limited uses.
Ammonia cracks copper alloys, but is harmless to steel and most other metals.
Merci pour ces informations
Est-ce que vous avez une idée sur le traitement de déchets lors de procédés de fabrication de l'ammoniac??
Thank you
@@nesrinebenarab9958 No. I am sorry. I do not.
Ocean going ships
@@nesrinebenarab9958 they would use the waste products for farming and fertilizer.
Yes, Sir I Also Want To Know What Was the Catalyst
Love
@@YouMockMe for whom?
It's Ruthenium
@@antonios7353 how is its availability
Omg! This is truly the most detailed and clear video with perfect animation, that is insane
@0:30: ammonia isn't a liquid fuel, but a gas at normal (atmospheric) pressure and temperature.
But yes, unlike hydrogen, it can be kept liquid at modest pressures or temperatures: With 7.5 bar at 20°C, or with minus 33°C at atmospheric pressure (1 bar).
Is this available for off-grid residential use? Like instead of a generator / propane tanks ?
lol no anhydrous ammonia is super dangerous they wont even sell it to you without a license and regular inspection of facilities this is more for industrial or off limits stuff like the application in the video
GenCell Ltd What is the catalyst separator made of ?
MOST likely platinum and iridium. LEAST abundant and EXPENSIVE....
What is the efficiency of this method? For example, assuming I start with 100 kWh of electrical energy, I use this energy to produce a certain amount of hydrogen from the electrolysis of water, and then hydrogen is combined with nitrogen to form ammonia, how much energy is left after the process that is described by the video?
you're spot on, but I actually think they produce hydrogen from methane.
30%, efficiency
@@SurajKumar-vb1yu Not great...
People have been getting ammonia from piss for thousands of years.
“Currently, the round-trip efficiency of liquid ammonia is 11-19%, which is similar to the values of liquid hydrogen of 9-22%” source The Chemical engineer.
Got any advice on Fleebs and Plubus'?
What type of fuel cell do u use
EXCELLENT
A useless stupid idea. Just to make the stupids dream.
Is it needless to purify the hydrogen/nitrogen mixture? If so, it will be a better solution to carry hydrogen than the organic ones.
Making pure hydrogen is more expensive
Best to turn the sound off and subtitles on.
I hope it's a game-changer, because all the other energy contenders are game-changers.
1:30 uh…. “… the lighter Nitrogen atoms flow upward and vent….” ???
Noticed that, did you?
Likely there is a molecular membrane too fine for the nitrogen to pass through that shunts it off to some manner of storage and venting (it cannot be freely vented or the hydrogen would just flow out with it). The hydrogen passes through the mesh and combined with atmospheric oxygen.
So, instead of global warming, we get global suffocation as more things use oxygen for power and the rain forests are cut down for biodiesel production.
And... free nitrogen combining with oxygen in a free radical state creates Nitrous Oxide which is even more potent a greenhouse gas than even methane, depending on its stability in free atmosphere.
"The LIGHTER nitrogen atoms flow upwards and are vented..." Is he correct? I thought hydrogen lighter.
In liquid form
@@Zeratul187 no, unlike ammonia, pure hydrogen and nitrogen are much harder to liquify, needs extremely high pressure and low temperature. The nitrogen gas are much heavier than H2, they should be vented below the containment.
That mistake is so elementary.
No answers on what to do with captured carbon while creating blue ammonia
Dude just came from other video about blue ammonia. Japan has been importing blue ammonia from saudi arabia aramco. They are going to be doing something on it soon.
@@Nayan-ic3ig only answer to pollution and problems is decrease in population and leading humble life
@@sridhardabu You first.
@@QarthCEO China had the answer to world's problems, but it failed for being biased
@@sridhardabu They probably got it running but... tofu dreg... it fell apart after an hour and vented anhydrous through the entire test facility...
What was the fluid in the tank to begin with? How will it get replenished, once it is used up?
you buy it from the industrial plant that is synthetizing it from methane, nitrogen and / or hydrogen from water split electrolysis. and you keep buying it.
At 1:26 they say the nitrogen is the lighter atom, but hydrogen is the smallest lightest atom.
There's probably a screening material too tight for the nitrogen atom to pass through so the hydrogen rises and the nitrogen is shuffled away.
Sir, I want to know what is the catalyst used to separate hydrogen from Ammonia
and how to separate hydrogen from a mixture of hydrogen and nitrogen
@@hardwaresoftware3131 that bits easy, heat the liquid. Le chatelier's principle will allow the reverse reaction of NH3 ->N2 + H2 to happen. But as you note, I would like to know which catalyst they are using.
@@galwitprifor001 thanks
Ruthenium th-cam.com/video/qEut7o-b5hY/w-d-xo.html
@@hardwaresoftware3131 totally 😎
Really interesting stuff, but what are the economics here? Factoring in the total cost of the system vs the lifetime hours (would assume these things aren't going to last 40,000 hours) then what is the added cost per kWh? For instance with 5kw output, if the system costs $50k more than a diesel generator and it's good for 10,000 hours before needing a new one then that's adding $1 per Kwh over diesel. Great for the environment but in terms of initial cost outlay and lifetime hours what are we talking here? Would be fantastic if the math looked promising!
The more detailed TCO modelling is usually required for particular cases, but for mission-critical operations (construction, remote off-grid permanent or temporary telco sites, military etc.) this would do the trick. Ammonia and hydrogen, in particular, won't solve all energy problems but they will provide quite workable and, as we progress with the scale, economic alternative to diesel generators or similar.
This is really interesting. Do you have any prototypes?
Yes they have working units
its got 40% of the energy of gasoline
@@Stealthsilent1337 In case you mean this in a negative way, I wanted to clear up why this is actually fine; it may have 40% the energy of gasoline, but it allows us to produce electricity, which can be used much more efficiently for work than gasoline can. Gasoline can only be converted to work at around 35% efficiency at most right now in a car engine, while the cracked ammonia (Hydrogen) can be converted to electricity quite efficiently, over 90%. This makes ammonia viable for use as an alternative fuel equivalent to gasoline but with the benefits you get out of electric motors, like regenerative braking and lower cooling drag. Also, converting from multi-fossil fuel sources (natural gas, coal, oil, gasoline, diesel) to just ammonia and electricity gives you much more reliable infrastructure as the specialization leads to efficiency improvements in logistics, construction, maintenance, management, and science/engineering. Hope this helps.
When is the IPO?
Input Process Output?
@@harshkatiyar8884 Initial Public Offering: when can we buy the stock.
Ya I also want to buy the stock.
Then why was it outlawed as a refrigerant ten years ago? It is banned as a none CFC refrigerant but it is good to contain hydrogen and flood into our atmospher? Sounds just like every other environmental ruling to me!
The Nitrogen should be harnessed and used as fertilizer.
There's nothing much new about ammonia. It's been used as a refrigerant for a very long
time, and has been very useful in various industries. We shouldn't get too excited about it.
Where's the residential model? LOL! : )
I see my comiz shadban. Say nitr heavier than h
Why can't the same be done with water? 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen?
@OMG OMG So, are you not doing the same in NH3? NH3 comes with a heavy cost while H2O is free to negligible cost...
@OMG OMG you guys dont talk the same language xD. You talk about pure hydrogen. The other guy asks about water. As seen in the video, when you got hydrogen and oxygen you can combine them which will generate energy and water (h2o). If you now want to split the water again, you need to input the same (or more) energy that you just generated to get pure hydrogen and pure oxygen. That's why you can't use water for this process. It's the "low energy end product" not the "high energy start product".
@OMG OMG H2 is highly flammable in only certain environments. You can shoot a H2 tank and not have any of it burn let alone explode.
@OMG OMG whilst I agree that using ammonia is superior in principle, the safety of it is somewhat disputable. Ammonia is irritating with high concentration exposure leading to skin and organ damage or even death. So safety needs to be thoroughly considered in situations where the container might be compromised.
@@levi4979 You can also vent a small amount and have it flash from static electricity or some unseen source. If you are burning pure hydrogen you probably wouldn't even see the flame, but you'll sure feel the heat.
Feel free to send me a small demo unit to review, I'd be happy to make a video on it.
Does that mean the energy of the in-statu-nascendi Nitrogen is just thrown away? Ammonia should deliver over 1200 kJ/kg of energy with 4 NH₃ + 3 O₂ → 2 N₂ + 6 H₂O(g) Is there further research being carried out?
Yeah what about the energy required to produce the ammonia from hydrogen, methane and nitrogen through the Haber-Bosch process?
421 thumbs up lol
It creates its own electricity because it can be used to make electricity
Or throw in some solar panels a small turbine and a battery and you don't have to refuel at all. Plus no dangerous ammonia to deal with
My question is "Can it cause Nitrous oxide from the process? Nitrous oxide can cause global warming more than CO2 300 times!!! 😰😰I know that in the ideal fuel cell system it's work!!However, Have you tested with old system that can possible leak? Do O2 could possible mix and cause Nitrous oxide?
PEM-fuel cells don't produce NOx or N2O.
NOx and N2O are problems, when you combust ammonia in internal combustion engines, but not with low-temperature fuel cells.
And how did you get Ammonia? => From Methan... So it is Methan => Ammonia => Hydrogen... And H2 in H2/H20 cell.engines usually comes directly to Methan... So only for storage and transportation is Ammonia better, because otherwise, it is still not a "green" solution as it still rely on fossil energy source
That is the most common method, yes, however it is possible to produce through multiple catalytic processes powered off green electrical sources. The base components are just hydrogen and nitrogen, after all.
have a search about green ammonia
It didn't work for GM fifty years ago why do you think it will work ? The laws of physics have not changed!
can you make ammonia from pee?
Search: "Make Ammonium Nitrate Nature's Way" (th-cam.com/video/qbG5-MO3ees/w-d-xo.html)
fish and chickens do for sure
yes!!
5kw per hour powers a fucking hospital!?
Stack to make as much power as needed.
piss generator 😆
Insanely.inefficient
The other day I objected against nitrogen lighter than hydrogen and gravitational separation of the two species. But now I realize why there are so few comments here. You remove those that are not to your liking. This makes it less likely that I will invest in your operation.
You sent me a message that maybe I posted on the wrong site. Maybe so, in that case please forgive me for being rude.
Still, there are two problems here: th-cam.com/video/drdDt1ski1I/w-d-xo.html
@@VeritasPraevalebit maybe this comment thread should be removed and reposted with an edit.
@@sagebias2251
For my part GenCell is free to to whatever they want with my comment.
I am still certain that their description of the process is pure fantasy.
So I predict that you will have to wait indefinitely for a prototype to materialize.
But, that said, I am a proponent for ammonia as a vehicle for transport and storage of sunshine energy.
Good comi z
One tank year 5k
500k 3day
Lol
Why playing this loud noise in the background while the narrator speakes, it's wery disturbing, i stop viewing after a minute 😠😡👿
😊😊😊😊
😊😊😊
😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
🐈⬛
Hahaha
GenCell scammer pioneer 😂
GenCell the most strategic scammer on the planet, came back to life with another project of scamming 🤣
Give them a medal of honor for scamming please 😁
What do you mean? Please explain clearly!!