Diego, can we get the spelling/name of the mushroom he was talking about? Otherwise people would have to write that out phonetically into google and hope to find it, haha.
It's the red winecap, and they can get dinner plate sized. I got my spore from North Spore in Maine, and I was pleased with the quality. The nice thing about using this, is that once you have the base of mycorrhizal fungi growing, you can dig it out, run it through the blender and mix it with sawdust to start your own inoculation stratum. I initially grew them to eat, but they are a bit oniony for me, unless sautéed in butter.
It isn't exactly a controlled experiment, but in the main garden, I put down 6" of wood chips, and inoculated with a mix of mycorrhizal fungi - mostly Glomus and Rizopagon species. 7 months later, the volume of wood chips has reduced to 3", and the mycelium are running everywhere. Immediately adjacent to the main garden, I have a set of dedicated beds for King Stropharia, and the decomposition of the Wood in THOSE is not quite as pronounced, although once again, the mycelium are fully integrated into the material. Love Peter's work, by the way - "Radical Mycology" never seems to make it back to the shelf 👍
The wine cap mushroom was easy to establish in my woodchip beds, and there is white stringy mycorrhizae everywhere. The beds have a spongy feel and when it is humid you can actually smell the mushrooms. I got the spawn from a provider near my area (Great Lakes region), so I’m sure it was well acclimated to my climate.
I bought some cheap Top Soil from Lowe's and found it wasn't soil at all but fine wood chips. The first year, I found termites and fungi which destroyed every thing I planted but the Sun Flowers. I put in Raised Beds and just used pine 2x10's for the form. The Termites loved that a little more than the mushrooms but the Mushrooms did enjoy the pine also. I read to leave the Mushrooms but get rid of the Termites the best I could. Again last year was the first and I've been trying to fix the soil the best I can. The Tomato Plants this year didn't have much of a root system and seem to be the roots only reached out to the point where the potting soil met the top soil and stopped. As the plants got bigger the area around the plants needed to be replaced with Potting Soil in order to keep them growing. The fruit itself was slim pickings and not very big. I planted the week before Mothers day and had started them under grow light a couple of weeks maybe three before planting. I'm not sure if adding leaves and grass clippings will mend the soil enough but I'm going to hope for a better outcome next year. I've also used 12-12-12 a few times already this fall so I hope that soaks into the dirt well enough before spring. Thanks for the Video, I'll be watching for more. I really need to learn a lot more. God Bless!
In the South you cannot mulch with wood chips (or using fine material being sold as "soil"). Even w/o termites - if the wooden material is mixed under soil you will run into problems with fertility. - Looks like termites even eat TREATED wood pretty fast (when Southeners tried to have raised beds made from wood). So I would use other materials for that (galvanized metal, or corrugated roofing material - reinforced cement. See the Cuban system, for slightly raised beds in their sandy soils). Another problem are fire ants that like it undisturbed - so constantly covered and mulched soil may also encourage them (and the termites might also attract the ants). it would be good to be able to mulch to stop evaporation, but maybe the Southeners have to make do w/o that. I read comments from 2 people (that have channels) and both are experienced gardners. Georgia and Mississippi. They gave up on mulching resp. had bad experiences with wood chips. wood chips (any "brown" = carbon rich) bio mass binds nitrogen for _a while_ if it breaks down, and if the wood is mixed under the layer where the roots of your plants are, the fungi that use the nitrogen for composting, will compete with the plants for nitrogen. The fruit bodies of potatoes being IN the mulch (can be wood chips) but the roots go into soil (with no wood chips in it) works well in the temperate climate zone. The bulbs must not be exposed to sun, so gardners usually have to plant into small mounds (which is extra work). With a thick top layer of wood chips on top that is not necessary. The bulbs can "shove" the chips aside easilyas they grow, and the roots grow into the soil. Has the advantage that the bulbs come out very clean when your harvest them. The top layer does not break down fast in those climate zones, so also no problems with lack of nitrogen.. In the temperate regions (no termites, no fire ants) one can use the wood chips as cover (not for soil amendment ! - only as COVER), it decomposes _slowly_ so gardeners do not run into trouble with nitrogen. I guess they could fix a small imbalance by adding soemthing (or you grow legumes that fix their own nitrogen). Charles Dowding in the U.K. uses other mulch for the beds (hay I think) but he likes to use wood chips (or finer material) as garden paths. They stay clean and dry even during rain, prevent evaporation, and any weeds are very easy to remove. I think he got problems with slugs (not sure), so no wood chips as cover on the _beds_ only for the paths. That wood cover is exposed to the rain, the chips start decomposing and if that is well under way (think 1 year) it _can_ eventually be mixed under soil or compost. Most of the nitrogen fixing phase is over by then. Of course Dowding works with excellent soil, adds lots of compost, so he has some buffer. The woody material makes good water absorbing substrate - if you can wait for it ;) (or add fertilizer and /or you are strategic where you place the wooden material and where not). Raised beds: whole logs, vines, and branches at the bottom, filled up with soil, can be lesser quality - but soil not wooden material (no holes, and larger airgaps, it needs to be slighly pressed down) then better soil, manure, compost etc on top. The plants send out their roots but not as deep as the logs. The logs SLOWLY break down and take the nitrogen from the surrounding soil. And the wood gets spongy over time, and stores water very well. So those tow layers do not impact each other much and after a few years the wood will be broken down. Then you have beautiful soil. Maybe not super fertile, but good enough and other beneftis (buffer for pH, water retention, porous). Some people misunderstand the "Back To Eden" method, they MIX the wood chips UNDER soil. Now if the soil is good and mature, if they put manure and compost on top, and / or the plants are not too demanding they might get away with it. But new gardners with soils that have not yet been developed are often in for a disappointment. The nitrogen that is temporarily bound during decomposition, is later released again, but that does not help you for 1 - 3 years - unless you add fertilizer and are experienced enough. (urine would be good, if that does not make you skittish, or blood or fish meal. In order to protect the oceans I would opt for blood meal, or fresh urine watered down 1 : 10). I suspect that there are fungi that can make do with no or not much nitrogen, but IF there is some in the SURROUNDING soil or washed down with the rain (around them) they prefer to use that. I think if they have nitrogen, they might also be faster. And your poor plants do not get enough.
In a comment of another video: Iowa summer (lots of sun but also rain). Clear bags with organic pine wood chips. The commenter ordered more than needed (they were hard to find). She assumed the clear bags would keep them dry and had them outdoors. - Nope - they let in water, the bags entrapped the sun and they broke down in 2 months. - she may have been lucky that the right kind of funi were present, the moisture that the bags allowed to get in was just right (air ??). She called it a lucky accident. - I found that interesting because normally fungi will draw nitrogen - not these fungi - maybe they only do if it is convenient or other kinds of fungi prevailed. And they got the solar energy and heat as support. Plus water but not much else.
That question about which strain could rip through the wood chips faster would be a great one to ask Paul Stamets, Diego. He's a badass mycologist that can teach you tons.
I've been trying to compost some sawdust I have. There is Bird nest mushrooms all over the pile and has made a spongy matt about 6 inches thick. I mixed 30 percent grass clippings in at the beginning flipped it a few times and let it sit. It's been about 6 months and the middle looks like it's almost finished. I don't know if I should it again or leave the mycelium intact.
You don't really need to worry about breaking up the mycelium, in fact by spreading it around you'll give it more inoculation points and will probably make it spread faster
I have an area (approximately 3/4 acre) that has been graded and all the top soil has been removed, it is essentially just red clay now. I want to try and start building up some top soil for growing grass in the summer. I have some piles of wood chips from a tree service that i was hoping to use as mulch after they decompose. Would adding mushroom spores to the piles speed up decomposition? Would that hurt grass growth or ph balance once it is spread out on the lawn?
I think that is a good idea. I put down compost and then a thick layer of wood chips that were already actively composting on a really weedy field, and it did a great job of getting me to square 1 with the weeds, and after of a year it's broken down pretty well. I think it is good for the chips to go down with compost because the extra nitrogen helps get them breaking down. After planting into that lasagna style compost and wood chips it mixed together more and its getting easier to work with. That was the only initial draw back, I didn't like planting into the wood chips, and I was limited to transplanting for at least the first 2 crops. Now that field is in its third crop and I direct seeded winter wheat into and it germinated great, the chips on the top weren't a problem. Once the chips completely decompose I won't add more because I won't really have the need for it.
@@DiegoFooter I don't have experience with woodchips. I simply thought bokashi because that is the fastest way I've been able to compost anything. I've made my own bokashi bran s few times and it seems to be pretty magical. I just did some research and it seems like cold fermenting wood chips before mushroom garden is a real thing . I guess the idea is more to inoculate the aerobic microbes during the anaerobic fermentation, and then when flooded with oxygen it inoculates the anaerobic microbes, this leading to s more sterile environment for your specific mushroom. but with my experience with bokashi, it makes me wonder if it actually helps the wood chips break down faster. Which I've never thought about before, but now I'm wondering if that's the reason bokashi works so well in general. Besides first breaking things down, is it also that it inoculates all the aerobic microbes on our composting material, and then provides this still very nutritious "food" for our currently working compost microbes to flourish faster without competition?
I don’t think the organisms in bokashi would have enough food to do much in a pile of wood chips. They need simpler forms of sugar which lignin is not. Also I don’t know how you would get a huge pile of wood chips hermetically sealed to create a true anaerobic environment. I think that time would be better spent by having decomposed fungi working on the wood.
I recently bought a large wooded property. Planning a lot of gardening I purchased a huge wood chipper to make mulch and compost. Then I learned my entire forest is Black Walnut and about the toxin issue. My question is will the toxins die off when the leaves and mulch is fully composted? Yikes!
I know that ALIVE walnut drives away other plants. But if the fungi break it down ?? ... I would assume then it does not matter. fungi eat everything. Black walnut is quality timber, not to forget the harvests (there is a preserve that is made from the green very immature walnuts, they must be still soft and the whole thing with the green cover is soaked (so the hard nut shell has not yet formed). The covers are also used for dyes. I think lots of sugar involved with the recipe. It is allegedly nice with venison.
the preserve is called young walnut preserve, seems to come from Southern Europe / Levanthe / Persia. The Greek name is Glyko Karydaki (Green Walnuts Preserve). There is a thing called "walnut jam" as well. - if your fruit trees are still having fruit you might consider keeping them (and if you have time to make those preserves you do not even depend on the weather being fine to ripen them, the nuts must be taken when they are very immature, End of May, beginning of June. The green hull stays on BUT it has to be peeled, that is quite some work. Wish I had a tree nearby so I could test the recipe.
I saw a post from John Kempf at advancing eco ag where they broken it down a good chunk in just 3 months by spraying something on it... I think some tea and some sea something.... I should go back and find that one day because I have an abundance but also a large mulch need
@@TheShopobie Yeah, it's in their blog post from the past few months if you type in it should pop up or email them. They were promoting advancing eco ag product, but it worked and I'm sure it could be done at home from what I remember
About 5 years ago my mom was into getting free wood chips dropped off at her house and landscaping. Then she got a pile of wood chips that she didn't need and she just left it there. 5 years later I bought the house and the pile is over grown with roots and is impossible to dig clear. Any tips?
Diego, can we get the spelling/name of the mushroom he was talking about? Otherwise people would have to write that out phonetically into google and hope to find it, haha.
I think its the wine cap but not sure. Yea i just looked it up and its the wine cap. Edible too.
Stropharia rugosoannulata
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stropharia_rugosoannulata
It's the red winecap, and they can get dinner plate sized. I got my spore from North Spore in Maine, and I was pleased with the quality. The nice thing about using this, is that once you have the base of mycorrhizal fungi growing, you can dig it out, run it through the blender and mix it with sawdust to start your own inoculation stratum. I initially grew them to eat, but they are a bit oniony for me, unless sautéed in butter.
It isn't exactly a controlled experiment, but in the main garden, I put down 6" of wood chips, and inoculated with a mix of mycorrhizal fungi - mostly Glomus and Rizopagon species. 7 months later, the volume of wood chips has reduced to 3", and the mycelium are running everywhere. Immediately adjacent to the main garden, I have a set of dedicated beds for King Stropharia, and the decomposition of the Wood in THOSE is not quite as pronounced, although once again, the mycelium are fully integrated into the material. Love Peter's work, by the way - "Radical Mycology" never seems to make it back to the shelf 👍
The wine cap mushroom was easy to establish in my woodchip beds, and there is white stringy mycorrhizae everywhere. The beds have a spongy feel and when it is humid you can actually smell the mushrooms. I got the spawn from a provider near my area (Great Lakes region), so I’m sure it was well acclimated to my climate.
Source?
@@VaughnMalecki field and forest products from Peshtigo, WI
I think you meant mycelium not mycorrhizae. Totally different things.
@@arrhazes8198 yea you’re right.
I bought some cheap Top Soil from Lowe's and found it wasn't soil at all but fine wood chips. The first year, I found termites and fungi which destroyed every thing I planted but the Sun Flowers. I put in Raised Beds and just used pine 2x10's for the form. The Termites loved that a little more than the mushrooms but the Mushrooms did enjoy the pine also. I read to leave the Mushrooms but get rid of the Termites the best I could. Again last year was the first and I've been trying to fix the soil the best I can. The Tomato Plants this year didn't have much of a root system and seem to be the roots only reached out to the point where the potting soil met the top soil and stopped. As the plants got bigger the area around the plants needed to be replaced with Potting Soil in order to keep them growing. The fruit itself was slim pickings and not very big. I planted the week before Mothers day and had started them under grow light a couple of weeks maybe three before planting. I'm not sure if adding leaves and grass clippings will mend the soil enough but I'm going to hope for a better outcome next year. I've also used 12-12-12 a few times already this fall so I hope that soaks into the dirt well enough before spring. Thanks for the Video, I'll be watching for more. I really need to learn a lot more. God Bless!
In the South you cannot mulch with wood chips (or using fine material being sold as "soil"). Even w/o termites - if the wooden material is mixed under soil you will run into problems with fertility. - Looks like termites even eat TREATED wood pretty fast (when Southeners tried to have raised beds made from wood). So I would use other materials for that (galvanized metal, or corrugated roofing material - reinforced cement. See the Cuban system, for slightly raised beds in their sandy soils).
Another problem are fire ants that like it undisturbed - so constantly covered and mulched soil may also encourage them (and the termites might also attract the ants). it would be good to be able to mulch to stop evaporation, but maybe the Southeners have to make do w/o that. I read comments from 2 people (that have channels) and both are experienced gardners. Georgia and Mississippi. They gave up on mulching resp. had bad experiences with wood chips.
wood chips (any "brown" = carbon rich) bio mass binds nitrogen for _a while_ if it breaks down, and if the wood is mixed under the layer where the roots of your plants are, the fungi that use the nitrogen for composting, will compete with the plants for nitrogen.
The fruit bodies of potatoes being IN the mulch (can be wood chips) but the roots go into soil (with no wood chips in it) works well in the temperate climate zone. The bulbs must not be exposed to sun, so gardners usually have to plant into small mounds (which is extra work).
With a thick top layer of wood chips on top that is not necessary. The bulbs can "shove" the chips aside easilyas they grow, and the roots grow into the soil. Has the advantage that the bulbs come out very clean when your harvest them. The top layer does not break down fast in those climate zones, so also no problems with lack of nitrogen..
In the temperate regions (no termites, no fire ants) one can use the wood chips as cover (not for soil amendment ! - only as COVER), it decomposes _slowly_ so gardeners do not run into trouble with nitrogen. I guess they could fix a small imbalance by adding soemthing (or you grow legumes that fix their own nitrogen).
Charles Dowding in the U.K. uses other mulch for the beds (hay I think) but he likes to use wood chips (or finer material) as garden paths. They stay clean and dry even during rain, prevent evaporation, and any weeds are very easy to remove. I think he got problems with slugs (not sure), so no wood chips as cover on the _beds_ only for the paths.
That wood cover is exposed to the rain, the chips start decomposing and if that is well under way (think 1 year) it _can_ eventually be mixed under soil or compost. Most of the nitrogen fixing phase is over by then. Of course Dowding works with excellent soil, adds lots of compost, so he has some buffer.
The woody material makes good water absorbing substrate - if you can wait for it ;) (or add fertilizer and /or you are strategic where you place the wooden material and where not).
Raised beds: whole logs, vines, and branches at the bottom, filled up with soil, can be lesser quality - but soil not wooden material (no holes, and larger airgaps, it needs to be slighly pressed down) then better soil, manure, compost etc on top. The plants send out their roots but not as deep as the logs. The logs SLOWLY break down and take the nitrogen from the surrounding soil. And the wood gets spongy over time, and stores water very well. So those tow layers do not impact each other much and after a few years the wood will be broken down. Then you have beautiful soil. Maybe not super fertile, but good enough and other beneftis (buffer for pH, water retention, porous).
Some people misunderstand the "Back To Eden" method, they MIX the wood chips UNDER soil. Now if the soil is good and mature, if they put manure and compost on top, and / or the plants are not too demanding they might get away with it. But new gardners with soils that have not yet been developed are often in for a disappointment.
The nitrogen that is temporarily bound during decomposition, is later released again, but that does not help you for 1 - 3 years - unless you add fertilizer and are experienced enough. (urine would be good, if that does not make you skittish, or blood or fish meal. In order to protect the oceans I would opt for blood meal, or fresh urine watered down 1 : 10).
I suspect that there are fungi that can make do with no or not much nitrogen, but IF there is some in the SURROUNDING soil or washed down with the rain (around them) they prefer to use that. I think if they have nitrogen, they might also be faster. And your poor plants do not get enough.
@@xyzsame4081 I live in a temperate zone and want to thank you for such a long comment, I have some methods to research now
In a comment of another video: Iowa summer (lots of sun but also rain). Clear bags with organic pine wood chips. The commenter ordered more than needed (they were hard to find). She assumed the clear bags would keep them dry and had them outdoors. - Nope - they let in water, the bags entrapped the sun and they broke down in 2 months. - she may have been lucky that the right kind of funi were present, the moisture that the bags allowed to get in was just right (air ??). She called it a lucky accident. - I found that interesting because normally fungi will draw nitrogen - not these fungi - maybe they only do if it is convenient or other kinds of fungi prevailed. And they got the solar energy and heat as support. Plus water but not much else.
That question about which strain could rip through the wood chips faster would be a great one to ask Paul Stamets, Diego. He's a badass mycologist that can teach you tons.
I have tried to get Paul on for years, but alas I am too small for Paul.
@@DiegoFooter that's too bad he's brilliant. You're not too small I just don't think he can keep up with you lol
I think he thinks (or knows) he's too famous now - just saying. ;)
Tarp the chips, higher humidity faster breakdown...
I've been trying to compost some sawdust I have. There is Bird nest mushrooms all over the pile and has made a spongy matt about 6 inches thick. I mixed 30 percent grass clippings in at the beginning flipped it a few times and let it sit. It's been about 6 months and the middle looks like it's almost finished. I don't know if I should it again or leave the mycelium intact.
Not positive but I think Dr David Johnson would recommend adding earthworms at this point.
You don't really need to worry about breaking up the mycelium, in fact by spreading it around you'll give it more inoculation points and will probably make it spread faster
Good to know. I had the same question. 2 years later 😆@@scroogemcduck1462
How about adding urea nitrogen fertilizer and watering daily? Would that make wood chips break down faster than 2 years via mushroom spores??
I am actually trying both of those now. Adding fertilizer, adding mushroom spawn. Results TBD. ;)
what is the chips are pine or spruce ? What can be done to break those down more quickly?
Would Molasses mixed with water sprayed during a rain ,or just before it rain feed the microbes in creasing their number. Would it speed it up?
Use Fire
Inky cap mushrooms eat my pine shavings mulch mixed with rabbits poop
Its kinda edible but not as good as the shaggy mane which eat more grass
I have an area (approximately 3/4 acre) that has been graded and all the top soil has been removed, it is essentially just red clay now. I want to try and start building up some top soil for growing grass in the summer. I have some piles of wood chips from a tree service that i was hoping to use as mulch after they decompose. Would adding mushroom spores to the piles speed up decomposition? Would that hurt grass growth or ph balance once it is spread out on the lawn?
My guess would be to bokashi the woodchips first, and then insert into a very active compost or mushroom compost.
I think that is a good idea. I put down compost and then a thick layer of wood chips that were already actively composting on a really weedy field, and it did a great job of getting me to square 1 with the weeds, and after of a year it's broken down pretty well. I think it is good for the chips to go down with compost because the extra nitrogen helps get them breaking down. After planting into that lasagna style compost and wood chips it mixed together more and its getting easier to work with. That was the only initial draw back, I didn't like planting into the wood chips, and I was limited to transplanting for at least the first 2 crops. Now that field is in its third crop and I direct seeded winter wheat into and it germinated great, the chips on the top weren't a problem. Once the chips completely decompose I won't add more because I won't really have the need for it.
What are you thinking bokashi would do?
@@DiegoFooter I don't have experience with woodchips. I simply thought bokashi because that is the fastest way I've been able to compost anything. I've made my own bokashi bran s few times and it seems to be pretty magical.
I just did some research and it seems like cold fermenting wood chips before mushroom garden is a real thing . I guess the idea is more to inoculate the aerobic microbes during the anaerobic fermentation, and then when flooded with oxygen it inoculates the anaerobic microbes, this leading to s more sterile environment for your specific mushroom. but with my experience with bokashi, it makes me wonder if it actually helps the wood chips break down faster.
Which I've never thought about before, but now I'm wondering if that's the reason bokashi works so well in general. Besides first breaking things down, is it also that it inoculates all the aerobic microbes on our composting material, and then provides this still very nutritious "food" for our currently working compost microbes to flourish faster without competition?
I don’t think the organisms in bokashi would have enough food to do much in a pile of wood chips. They need simpler forms of sugar which lignin is not. Also I don’t know how you would get a huge pile of wood chips hermetically sealed to create a true anaerobic environment. I think that time would be better spent by having decomposed fungi working on the wood.
I recently bought a large wooded property. Planning a lot of gardening I purchased a huge wood chipper to make mulch and compost. Then I learned my entire forest is Black Walnut and about the toxin issue. My question is will the toxins die off when the leaves and mulch is fully composted?
Yikes!
I know that ALIVE walnut drives away other plants. But if the fungi break it down ?? ... I would assume then it does not matter. fungi eat everything. Black walnut is quality timber, not to forget the harvests (there is a preserve that is made from the green very immature walnuts, they must be still soft and the whole thing with the green cover is soaked (so the hard nut shell has not yet formed). The covers are also used for dyes. I think lots of sugar involved with the recipe. It is allegedly nice with venison.
the preserve is called young walnut preserve, seems to come from Southern Europe / Levanthe / Persia. The Greek name is Glyko Karydaki (Green Walnuts Preserve). There is a thing called "walnut jam" as well. - if your fruit trees are still having fruit you might consider keeping them (and if you have time to make those preserves you do not even depend on the weather being fine to ripen them, the nuts must be taken when they are very immature, End of May, beginning of June.
The green hull stays on BUT it has to be peeled, that is quite some work.
Wish I had a tree nearby so I could test the recipe.
I saw a post from John Kempf at advancing eco ag where they broken it down a good chunk in just 3 months by spraying something on it... I think some tea and some sea something.... I should go back and find that one day because I have an abundance but also a large mulch need
Ooh. I would love to know...
@@TheShopobie Yeah, it's in their blog post from the past few months if you type in it should pop up or email them. They were promoting advancing eco ag product, but it worked and I'm sure it could be done at home from what I remember
I am not sure that you can add anything to speed it up. Peter is pretty knowledgeable and came up with nothing there and John sells amendments.
@@DiegoFooter Yeah, I was kind of thinking from that perspective as well.. just thought I'd share that I saw it and let you evaluate it for yourself
Very interesting
About 5 years ago my mom was into getting free wood chips dropped off at her house and landscaping. Then she got a pile of wood chips that she didn't need and she just left it there. 5 years later I bought the house and the pile is over grown with roots and is impossible to dig clear. Any tips?
I would just spread use it chopping up the tree roots as you go.
Hey freind what can i use yo break down oak leaves and small tree branches
Just time. Pile it up and walk away.
Goldilocks water???
Woodglut comes with very useful plans with all the details you need.
So the answer is NO - There is no way to speed up the process. .
Outside of a lab. Reducing particle size is really the only tool in the toolbox. 🧰
@@DiegoFooter Thanks for responding.
Yes there is. You ferment it.
Soil is gay!