@diversityisourstrength4223 there’s plenty of other channels with equally high quality and relevant content that don’t interrupt their videos with advertising nonsense. Quite easy to go and watch them instead.
@@danners4302 I have to admit that Red Wrench needs to not only reconsider his sponsors, but also have them either at the beginning or at the end. Also, Raid is trash anyway. I mean for a bad game, anyone who accept a sponsor from them, must get a crap ton of money from it.
As I am now old I can attest M36 was indeed called Jackson during WW2. M18 in contrast was called Hellcat Stuart/Honey(UK), Lee/Grant, Sherman, Pershing, Chaffee, Jackson I don't think I missed any.
@@Mygg_Jeager 76mm armed Shermans could reliably penetrate the frontal armour of the Tiger 1 at very reasonable ranges. Even 75mm armed vehicles could get through it with a bit of luck and persistence (and at close range). Frontally the Panther had significantly better armour than the Tiger.
@@theseasofenvy8826 It's in warthunder too, and from what I have seen, is quite good. Its only downside is the fact it gets rid of the gyro stab the regular 76 shermans have for the M82 nuke round, which is, well, fair but unfortunate. the 90mm M82 is seriously, one of the best rounds in the game in terms of killing power after penetration, but that gyro stabilizer sure does help when your need to stop suddenly to shoot the enemy.
I once came across a US ARMY plamphlet discussing the potential use of the M36 as a bunker buster in the invadion if Japan's home island. The 90 mm shells had a much greater effect versus concrete & other bunkers than the 75 mm M3 (900 g TNT in the 90 mm M71 HE v 660 in the M48). Also suggested was the 155 mm gun M1 mounted on the M40 GMC. Imagine being hunkered down in a bunker while M40 GMC crews "snipe" you at say 1000+ yards with 100# 155 mm M112 APC.
Dad got to play with an M36 in fall of 44. His M36 got to engage Tiger tank hulls at a range. The 90mm easily penetrated and crumbled the front Tiger glacis plate. This outing was to familiarize his ordnance unit with the machine. He never took it into combat.
I'm helping to restore a M36 at the American Heritage Museum, the tank has a interesting service history seeing combat in Northern Europe and much later in the Fmr. Yugoslavia
We were literally just having the discussion between the M36, M36B1, and M36B2 on my discord the other day. Perfect timing as always, you seem to know exactly what I want and when I want it!
During the later stages of the war, Germany attempted to replicate the M10 with their Panther tank. At longer distances, the imitation was convincing, but up close, it was easily distinguishable from the real thing. However, when examining the M36, one can observe a similar gun mantlet to that of the Panther, including the same port. Despite the Panther's chassis being similar to that of a Sherman, it is unlikely that the Germans could have replicated it due to the extensive bombing of their factories at that time. The imitation Panther was known as the Ersatz M10, demonstrating the desperation of the Germans as the war neared its end in 1944-45. Though a strange topic, it is also intriguing.
@@felixsteiner1295 The tank is not a war crime as it is still clearly a Panther. There is nothing in the Conventions saying that you can't attempt to fool the enemy. The *soldiers* that were dressed in US uniforms *is* a war crime, however.
Everyone praises the German ww2 tank designs, but none could ever match the the efficency of the American designs. The work done by the engineers in the states are truly incredible.
What was so efficient about American tank designs? Until the M26 Pershing they were all pretty mediocre. The M36 was the only TD with a big enough gun, and it didn't see combat in any numbers until the Battle of the Bulge. And, until the advent of APCR rounds, even the 90mm M2/M3 was plagued by low quality (too soft) shells, which meant that it performed worse than the Tiger 1's "short" 88mm L/56.
@@TTTT-oc4eb mediocre is not the word. Perhaps, undergunned or slightly unrefined. They were reliable, easy to service, and were built around some simplicity. Those M4s are workhorses and man they did their job well. Not the best sights or the best concealment as they are rather large, tall vehicles.
@@tacomas9602 Compared to US warships and airplanes, which were very competive, their tanks were mediocre compared to the opposition. A Panzer IV, Cromwell or even T-34 built by the US industry would easily have achieved the same result. Even if they had continued to build the M3, the end result would have been the same.
@@TTTT-oc4eb The Pz IV was complicated to build, the Panther was actually cheaper to build than it was. The Cromwell was cramped and the T-34 was notoriously uncomfortable. The Sherman was comfortable, had superior reliability and ease of maintenance, and was the safest tank to be in if penetrated. It averaged 0.6 crew lost
Another great film with incredible detail, brings to mind an iconic movie quote. "This being a 90mm it'd blow your turret clean off, you gotta ask yourself one question, do I feel lucky, well do ya, Fritz?" 😂
I grew up with these Vets as my friends, family, teachers and neighbors, I clearly recall the "Jackson" as in Stone Wall tribute as how the men of this place and times refered to this whole line of Tanks. One friend was a tank mechanic and engineer while doubling in morge detail as he recovered fellow fallen soilders and their tanks frozzen in the Bulge and the SS Allied prisoner massacre
Nice to see two of America's workhorse TDs getting some *accurate* TH-cam coverage. Too often TH-camrs will make the mistake of their script not matching what they put on the screen, but near as I can tell you only did that once (@14:04). Well done! If you decide to do an update to his video, my only suggestion would be to show the difference between the 75mm, 3-inch, 76mm, and 90mm ammunition cartridges. There is a widely circulated photo that shows these cartridges among others, lined up side by side for comparison.
The M36 B1 was loved by their crews because the bow machine gun gave forward firing support against enemy infantry. Field welded on tubes in the forward corners of the turret were also used for .30 cal light machine guns or .50 cal heavy machine gun. The .50 cal supplied for AA use was facing to the rear. You can see this arrangement on photos taken from December 1944 onwards.
Great to see a video about the rarely talked about M36 and the few videos that do mention this TD just briefly go over its history and specs. So great job. Thanks
I see this TD as being a perfect 'Ambush' weapon. If placed in a 'Hull down' position and camouflaged, the excellent vision it provided would be a great advantage for the crew. One other consideration is its speed. There is a saying, "Speed is Life."
Amazing work on theses videos man! I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and every time I learn something new about that tank or vehicle I didn’t know about before. Can’t wait to see what else you cover in the future!
I've always thought for a film, if money was no option, a mini series, pick one armor unit from 1941 and show the progression from Lee tanks to Pershings or in this case from the halftracks with french 75s to the M36.
The iranian army used M36B1s during the Iran-Irak war, some of them were captured by the iraquis and later found by US forces during the 2003 invasion of irak
I got my first job as a Barber in 1988, I worked with 3 WW II Veterans. In thos days the average WW II Vet was 63 to 67 years old. Our shop was popular, with loads of Vets coming in. Guys from "The Big One," Korea, and of course Vietnam. Well, one of my customers was a Veteran tanker from the 70th Tank Battalion, 1st Armored. (Sorry, its been years, but the division he was in had that "Spearhead" on the patch) this man had been in Italy, and then Normandy. He was in a Sherman. He said they came through one of those hedges, and there, about 150 yards away, was a Tiger Tank. The Sherman immediately fired, and the shell "bounced off the Tiger and shot way up in the air, like a glowing tennis ball." He told me that the crew of the Tiger "must have been kids, or new, because after the first shot hit their Tiger, they piled out of the (unharmed) tank and ran into some woods nearby." The Sherman fired four more shots in quick succession, with no damage to the tiger. "Then," he told me, "I was looking through the periscope, and saw an old German Sgt, yelling at the Tiger Crew, and gesturing at us" The Crew got back into the Tiger, and fired a shell, which "went clean through our Tank, took my drivers head off and destroyed our turret." Later they made improvements... Crazy.
My dad was assigned as a radio operator for an m10 in world war II. he didn't really talk about the war but I was working on a plastic model of an M10 when I was a kid and he told me about a time when they were strafed by an ME-109.
Well we did used it during NATO aggression against Yugoslavia 1999, Gun was 90mm not sure if it was original or home made, but it was used for infantry support with HE round home made, of course much better than ammunition's from 50 or 60, it had motor replaced with diesel and additional armor was putted you can say M36 on steroid but quickly after we would start engine and wait for NATO to bombard it as decoy, then repair or just put engine from Tractor and again watch it destroyed again also T34-85 we would use same tactic.
In WW2, the fastest way to get a tank destroyer knocked out, was to call it a tank. At least according to the vet stories on documentaries. Imagine being the commander of an open-top machine designed to shoot at distance and then quickly change position, and some CO tells you to go support infantry through a town. I'd get court martialed.
Thanks for covering this! My favorite ground vehicle in WWII is the M10, not sure why. My grandfather was a tank commander of ex-US M36 Jacksons during the early 1950s for the Italian Army. Keep up the great work!
@@svgproductions72 Hey I think I had the same amount of subs as you in January so things can change quick! If you've got discord it would be great to have a chat :)
I first heard of the M10 and M36 in a WW2 RTS game called R.U.S.E where both were good TDs at the points in a game in which you'd acquire them, the M10 being amazing in the early game and if you set the game's time period to be up to 1942, and the M36 was amazing in the late game or in the 1945 time period in order to kill prototypes like the Maus and IS-3, so it's good to see a video detailing both of these TDs in detail, amazing word as always!
Hats off to the gentleman who created this video. The research and production is as good, if not better, than any documentary one might find on the History Channel.
Thants for the awesome video! My uncle served in the 15A 630 Tank Division Battalion, C Company. His battalion patch is the face of a tiger biting a outline of a tank in black and orange. I am into scale models and never built tanks so the M36 will be my next project. Will use this video for visual reference...
@@jefferyroy2566it knocked out Tigers for fun, my dad was a gunner with the royal artillery and used the 17pounder, he said it was better than the German 88mm and could’ve been adapted for anti aircraft work but the frame would’ve needed modifying.
17 pounders knocking out Tigers was uncommon. Only around a dozen Tigers were lost to 17 pounders. When the Tigers of Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 101 knocked out most of the 44 Shermans of Worthington Force at Estrees la Campagne on 9th August 1944 there were Fireflies there yet not a single Tiger was lost. So what were the Fireflies doing?
What about the M18 Hellcat. It had the best kill-to-lose ratio of any US tank or tank destroyer in WW2 and destroyed the most enemy vehicles. Although of course it was based on the M22 Locust chassis.
Hey red wrench it's me again I have a request, can you make a video about the AMX light tanks? I've been very curious in it's history,but if you can't make a video about the AMX light tanks because you have other plans in mind,it's ok because I'm always gonna watch your videos no matter what.
The achilles was based on the M10, not the M36. So although he talked about the M10 at the start it isn’t surprising the video does not mention the achilles.
@@2ndcomingofFritzthats true.. keep in mind the M36 was primarily a M10 with a different turret. If memory serves most if not all the M10's used for training or combat attrition replacements in the US were converted to the M36. Forget how many exactly but it was around 8-900 vehicles.
Great video. When you mentioned the upgraded ammunition, I went and checked my collection and found one of the T30 E16 casings and projectile. It's always nice to find out new info on things you have sitting around.
Been a fan of tanks all my life and really enjoy your videos man! Glad to see the channel's growing big enough where you can start making money off it!
Tank Destroyer Command: "We don't need the M36, we have tank destroyers already. Why would we want a 90mm anyway?" **Tiger and Panther appear** Ordnance Department: "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."
He stated that they probably didn't actually call it the "Jackson". Well, having been a 45 year old colonel in the tank brigades in WW2, I know that the _REAL_ name for it was the M-36 "B*tch Slapper". 😉
@@RedWrenchFilms The video did not mention something he once described to me as requiring composure in extremis. The TD got stuck in the mud, so the crew (including him, the loader) had to get out and detach the tread and lay it down so that it could be driven over to escape the mud, and then they had to move the tread so that it could be driven onto and re-attached. The challenging part was that they accomplished this while being fired at by the enemy. Like very many veterans, he didn't talk about his war experience much. He left stateside for ETO on January 25, 1945, arrived 14 days later, and probably got to the 818th about the time it was being reconstituted or reorganized in February, and perhaps that is when they got the M36. A short time later, he had his first combat experience, which I believe was serving as miscellaneous artillery, exchanging fire across a river with the last German-held position on the Siegfried Line. That was right around his 19th birthday, 9 months after he graduated from high school.
The M10 and 3in gun were capable of defeating Panther armor much further than a few hundred yards. The issue, like for most US tanks, tank destroyers, and AT guns was the lack of HVAP ammunition. The 76mm and 3in used the same ammunition and had very similar barrel lengths so this shouldn't be surprising. Also the M10s weren't really used in a head on role, they were operationally defensive. As you note though, commanders often used them differently than their doctrine was intended. It was still an armored thing with big direct fire gun on tracks so if you needed a bunker or other position blasted to support the infantry, well if you lack Shermans, grab the M10s, M18s, or M36s. Especially as German armor became less of a threat due to numbers and supply issues, this became a dominant role. If memory serves, their AP rounds had some use in "bunker busting" of the day.
I really like what Yugoslavia did with their M36s, replacing the old engines which even if their relations to the US would have been good, were the tanks themselves simply out of production for over 20 years at that point. Upgrading them with the at that point very modern and powerful T55 engine was really was an good move to hold them as reliable working machines.
The M-36 was used during the Yugoslav Wars in the 90’s Mainly because the Yugoslav army the JNA had acquired them in the 1950’s from the United States In the aftermath of the Stalin Tito split and when the Yugoslav wars started the tanks were still in service and though mainly used in an infantry support role and as a self propelled gun it saw service on nearly all sides of the Yugoslav wars in one form or another
I seem recall reading a late WW II (declassified) pamphlet which discussed the capability of the M36 as a concrete bunker buster in the planned invasion of the Japanese home islands. M82 APC & M71 HE shells would have quire an effect. (This reminiscent of Germany using some 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37 was bunker busters in 1940.) I recall the 155 mm GMC M40 was also evaluated using likely M112 APC shells and the standard HE (M101?). Imagine being in a concrete bunker while a battery or battalion of 155 mm cannon (not howitzers) firing volleys of 155 mm APC shells from quite a distance. Then the 90 mm guns of M36s and possibly M26s roll up behind a massive TOT of field, corps and naval artillery. Good thing for all involved this became overcome by events.
M10s we’re often misused in some battles as tanks and so no surprise turrets crews were killed by mortars, grenades and snipers. Also the manual only traverse was a stupid idea.
Much ado about HVAP, but the video didn’t mention T33 90mm had excellent penetration and worked very well against sloped armor. It was accurate and was better than HVAP for longer ranges. It was ultimately standardized for the M3 90mm, and still used in the M48 Patton 90mm with a new cartridge casing and more propellant.
What's funny is TDs were supposed to be all gun and motor, and little else. They made the M36 with bolt-on armor to increase it's protection. Then later they gave it an 1-inch thick steel folding cover to protect the otherwise open top. Then after that they installed a hull-MG for more anti-infantry capabilities. Basically it slowly evolved into a medium tank and became a testament to the flawed US TD doctrine.
The M36 never really used any of its bolt-on armour. The entire project was an extension of the M10, which was, itself, a stop gap tank destroyer that attempted to field the 3 Inch gun in a sensible way. Neither vehicle really fit that well into the US TD doctrine so I don’t think it’s all that fair to draw that comparison. M18 a great example of the TD doctrine when actually applied.
Towards the end, Germany had run out of one particular resource, i forget the name, but it prevented their tank armour from being brittle. I'd bet that those 2 hits on that Panther showed that this tank was made after they ran out of, er, something. Some other metal for the alloy Putting that 6" hole and then shattering the turret is a giveaway I'd think.
According to Isaac D White, Commanding General of US 2nd Armored Division in his report sent to Eisenhower on March 20th 1945: "" Tank Destroyer, M36: Has not lived up to expectations, but when HVAP ammunition becomes available it is hoped that it will be more effective. Fighting compartment precludes efficient service of the piece and available ammunition is not effective at required long range""
That doesn't make any sense at all because the m36 had the 90mm on it and you only hear about hvap when it comes the 76mm which nonsense also because the M18 was effective without it. Most platoons didn't want the Jackson because it was no needed.
@@chadjustice8560 Well, take it up with the personnel in US 2nd Armored Division. Don't forget, by late 1944 the Panther was now more prevalent than the Panzer IV. The Jagdpanzer IV was turning up in numbers and though not common the Tiger II and Jagdpanther were around. Brigadier General J. H. Collier Commanding Combat Command A, 66th Armored Regiment : "" The consensus of opinion of all personnel in the 66th Armored Regiment is that the German tank and anti-tank weapons are far superior to the American in the following categories: The German guns have a much higher muzzle velocity and no tell-tale flash. The resulting flat trajectory gives great penetration and is very accurate. The 90-mm, although an improvement, is not as good as either the longer 75 or 88. If HVAP ammunition becomes available, it will improve the performance of both the 76-mm and 90-mm guns"" Lt. Col. Wilson M. Hawkins Commanding 3rd Battalion, 67th Armored Regiment: ""My personal opinion about the comparative quality of U.S. and German tanks can be stated briefly as follows: if such a choice were possible, I would prefer to fight in the present German Mark V or VI tank against the present U.S. medium tank and tank destroyer with the 90-mm gun. … The feeling among the tank crew personnel, men who have four, five and six full campaigns to their credit, is the same. The tank gun is the most vital factor in tank fighting. I know of many cases to prove the fact that the German 75-mm and 88-mm mounted on Mk IV, V, and VI tanks will penetrate our tanks, while our weapons will not penetrate theirs at the same range. The higher muzzle velocity of the German guns increases their accuracy, as range estimation are of less importance with such a flat trajectory. I have fired all our tank weapons and know this to be so."" Here is general White on the 90mm again: ""The M26 medium tank has not as yet been issued to this division and consequently no comments can be made. Experience with the M36 tank destroyer with 90-mm gun indicates that this should be a highly effective tank when HVAP ammunition becomes available. Its issue to this division is eagerly awaited."" Again, he mentions HVAP with the 90mm. Keep in mind that testing ground results are not the same as battlefield actuality.
@@chadjustice8560 General White again on the overall tank gun situation: "The most important point, and upon which there is universal agreement, is our lack of a tank gun and anti-tank gun with which we can effectively engage enemy armor at the required range. The correction of this deficiency has made progress, but the problem has not as yet been satisfactorily solved" Again, don't shoot the messenger. That's straight from the commanding general of the most battle tested US armoured division in NW Europe.
Another enjoyable bit of history filling in some rarely discussed gaps. WRT the penetration of Panthers or Tigers, one must remember that by the end of the war (late 44/45) when the 90mm gun was being fielded, the quality of German armour had severely declined due to a lack of alloying metals (e.g., Mo). That might explain the need for 2 or 3 hits to achieve penetration (the first serving to crack the armour). I think this was mentioned in another Red Wrench Film but I cannot find the source.
According to Isaac D White, Commanding General of US 2nd Armored Division in his report sent to Eisenhower on March 20th 1945: "" Tank Destroyer, M36: Has not lived up to expectations, but when HVAP ammunition becomes available it is hoped that it will be more effective. Fighting compartment precludes efficient service of the piece and available ammunition is not effective at required long range""
The American tank destroyer branch was disbanded for a reason. The open top made the crews vulnerable to artillery and the thin armor made them vulnerable to... everything. After a few weeks in Normandy, the Americans started retrofitting the Shermans with 76mm canons like the British Fireflies. When the M-26 Pershing finally arrived in 1945, no one thought twice about shelving the tank destroyers.
Well, yes and no. The MBT made the tank destroyer obsolete just as it made the Medium and Heavy tanks obsolete. You no longer had to trade mobility for armour. The introduction of missiles to the battlefield saw a resurgence, however, with lightly armoured, mobile anti-tank guided missile vehicles emerging in the 50s and 60s. Also the 76mm wasn’t “retrofitted” per se, but had been in development for around 2 years by that point, and required a whole new turret, unlike the firefly.
I always have and always will maintain that the sherman was the best tank of the war, purely due to its versatility. Doesnt matter who you are or what you need, there was always a sherman for it. You need a tiger dead? Here, have an M36.
great video... but just a few more minutes of combat footage of the M-36 in use in final days of war, or even just battles where it was deployed in would have been a nice wrap-up to the history of its long development
The 88mm was more accurate and did more damage, particularly the L/71. The 88mm L/71 was the best anti tank gun of WW2 and the best gun fitted to any armour (King Tiger, Jagdpanthers, Nashorn).
@lyndoncmp5751 isn't it amazing how we've all read or heard different about these guns...my ones better than yours nerrr etc either way both were serious bits of kit, and in the right hands capable of destroying pretty much any armour it came up against. Thank you for your input as well
@@Ord_Wingate Well I'd say the various opinions stem from there being two different 88s. The L/56 that the Tiger I had and the L/71 that the King Tiger and Jagdpanther had. The 17 pounder did have more armour penetration than the L/56 version but not more than the L/71. It was less accurate than both and didn't have as powerful a high explosive shell. Still, the 17 pounder was a great anti tank gun. No doubt. The best the western allies had. Cheers.
I still love the US military's hubris always getting snubbed. "Nah, we won't need the 90mm TD or 76mm M4, we've never even seen the Tiger or Panther!" *sees them* "oh fuck! Get the up-gunned vehicles!"
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Welp, that’s another channel removed from my watchlist… ads belong at the start or the end of videos, not the middle.
@diversityisourstrength4223 there’s plenty of other channels with equally high quality and relevant content that don’t interrupt their videos with advertising nonsense. Quite easy to go and watch them instead.
@@danners4302 I have to admit that Red Wrench needs to not only reconsider his sponsors, but also have them either at the beginning or at the end. Also, Raid is trash anyway. I mean for a bad game, anyone who accept a sponsor from them, must get a crap ton of money from it.
As I am now old I can attest M36 was indeed called Jackson during WW2. M18 in contrast was called Hellcat
Stuart/Honey(UK), Lee/Grant, Sherman, Pershing, Chaffee, Jackson
I don't think I missed any.
@@Mygg_Jeager 76mm armed Shermans could reliably penetrate the frontal armour of the Tiger 1 at very reasonable ranges. Even 75mm armed vehicles could get through it with a bit of luck and persistence (and at close range).
Frontally the Panther had significantly better armour than the Tiger.
The M36B1 with the Sherman hull is hella dope, so close to a 90mm Sherman if the turret was closed.
@muntatheraldamok9267not just the gun; it got the whole Pershing turret
@@theseasofenvy8826 It's in warthunder too, and from what I have seen, is quite good. Its only downside is the fact it gets rid of the gyro stab the regular 76 shermans have for the M82 nuke round, which is, well, fair but unfortunate. the 90mm M82 is seriously, one of the best rounds in the game in terms of killing power after penetration, but that gyro stabilizer sure does help when your need to stop suddenly to shoot the enemy.
@@theseasofenvy8826I could be misremembering but I think had the exact same ring dimensions!
B2 variant has a "convertible" top😅 that count?
I once came across a US ARMY plamphlet discussing the potential use of the M36 as a bunker buster in the invadion if Japan's home island. The 90 mm shells had a much greater effect versus concrete & other bunkers than the 75 mm M3 (900 g TNT in the 90 mm M71 HE v 660 in the M48).
Also suggested was the 155 mm gun M1 mounted on the M40 GMC. Imagine being hunkered down in a bunker while M40 GMC crews "snipe" you at say 1000+ yards with 100# 155 mm M112 APC.
Dad got to play with an M36 in fall of 44. His M36 got to engage Tiger tank hulls at a range. The 90mm easily penetrated and crumbled the front Tiger glacis plate. This outing was to familiarize his ordnance unit with the machine. He never took it into combat.
I'd call that a win!
I'm helping to restore a M36 at the American Heritage Museum, the tank has a interesting service history seeing combat in Northern Europe and much later in the Fmr. Yugoslavia
I believe you got it from us at the Museum of American Armor :)
what's the progress on the restoration
The M-36 needs and deserves a WW2 movie
This tank appears in the capitain america the first avenger movie in one scene
@@hunter235studio9 I mean a movie like Fury is for the Sherman
an M36* movie would be neat, though how would they do it?
Saints & Soldiers - The Void [2014] is about an M-18. Movie is average but the tank is pretty.
A properly made one… not a “Netflix adaptation”
We were literally just having the discussion between the M36, M36B1, and M36B2 on my discord the other day. Perfect timing as always, you seem to know exactly what I want and when I want it!
i love your videos
I also love your videos
Sherman jesus has arrived
Oh my god its Sherman jesus
omg sherman jesus in the wild!
During the later stages of the war, Germany attempted to replicate the M10 with their Panther tank. At longer distances, the imitation was convincing, but up close, it was easily distinguishable from the real thing. However, when examining the M36, one can observe a similar gun mantlet to that of the Panther, including the same port. Despite the Panther's chassis being similar to that of a Sherman, it is unlikely that the Germans could have replicated it due to the extensive bombing of their factories at that time. The imitation Panther was known as the Ersatz M10, demonstrating the desperation of the Germans as the war neared its end in 1944-45. Though a strange topic, it is also intriguing.
It's a tier 7 premium in WOT and I know Warthunder has it as well. I've heard it referred to as the " war crime" tank in those games.
@@jonmcgee6987 yes it’s war crime
@@felixsteiner1295 The tank is not a war crime as it is still clearly a Panther. There is nothing in the Conventions saying that you can't attempt to fool the enemy. The *soldiers* that were dressed in US uniforms *is* a war crime, however.
@@iatsd they are dressed in I recall
Ah yes, the Ersatz Panther (M10), a one way trip to the Hague
Thanks for doing the M36. It's my favorite US TD from the WW2 era. Highly underrated and under reported in history.
Everyone praises the German ww2 tank designs, but none could ever match the the efficency of the American designs. The work done by the engineers in the states are truly incredible.
Sure Panzer IV matches with ease
What was so efficient about American tank designs? Until the M26 Pershing they were all pretty mediocre. The M36 was the only TD with a big enough gun, and it didn't see combat in any numbers until the Battle of the Bulge. And, until the advent of APCR rounds, even the 90mm M2/M3 was plagued by low quality (too soft) shells, which meant that it performed worse than the Tiger 1's "short" 88mm L/56.
@@TTTT-oc4eb mediocre is not the word. Perhaps, undergunned or slightly unrefined. They were reliable, easy to service, and were built around some simplicity. Those M4s are workhorses and man they did their job well. Not the best sights or the best concealment as they are rather large, tall vehicles.
@@tacomas9602 Compared to US warships and airplanes, which were very competive, their tanks were mediocre compared to the opposition. A Panzer IV, Cromwell or even T-34 built by the US industry would easily have achieved the same result. Even if they had continued to build the M3, the end result would have been the same.
@@TTTT-oc4eb The Pz IV was complicated to build, the Panther was actually cheaper to build than it was. The Cromwell was cramped and the T-34 was notoriously uncomfortable. The Sherman was comfortable, had superior reliability and ease of maintenance, and was the safest tank to be in if penetrated. It averaged 0.6 crew lost
Another great film with incredible detail, brings to mind an iconic movie quote. "This being a 90mm it'd blow your turret clean off, you gotta ask yourself one question, do I feel lucky, well do ya, Fritz?" 😂
I grew up with these Vets as my friends, family, teachers and neighbors, I clearly recall the "Jackson" as in Stone Wall tribute as how the men of this place and times refered to this whole line of Tanks.
One friend was a tank mechanic and engineer while doubling in morge detail as he recovered fellow fallen soilders and their tanks frozzen in the Bulge and the SS Allied prisoner massacre
Nice to see two of America's workhorse TDs getting some *accurate* TH-cam coverage. Too often TH-camrs will make the mistake of their script not matching what they put on the screen, but near as I can tell you only did that once (@14:04). Well done!
If you decide to do an update to his video, my only suggestion would be to show the difference between the 75mm, 3-inch, 76mm, and 90mm ammunition cartridges. There is a widely circulated photo that shows these cartridges among others, lined up side by side for comparison.
Very informative! Thanks. There were also the M36s used by the French in Indochina, whose resemblance to Panthers in photos is noted fairly regularly.
The mythical "Pink Panther" left abandoned in French Indochina turned out to be a rusted M-36...
The M36 B1 was loved by their crews because the bow machine gun gave forward firing support against enemy infantry. Field welded on tubes in the forward corners of the turret were also used for .30 cal light machine guns or .50 cal heavy machine gun. The .50 cal supplied for AA use was facing to the rear. You can see this arrangement on photos taken from December 1944 onwards.
My heart is always with the M18 Hellcat, but I'm glad to have learned more about the M36! The US TD's are very interesting to research
M-18s are in the movie "Saints and Soldiers: The Void" (2014)
Great to see a video about the rarely talked about M36 and the few videos that do mention this TD just briefly go over its history and specs. So great job. Thanks
I see this TD as being a perfect 'Ambush' weapon. If placed in a 'Hull down' position and camouflaged, the excellent vision it provided would be a great advantage for the crew. One other consideration is its speed. There is a saying, "Speed is Life."
Amazing work on theses videos man! I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and every time I learn something new about that tank or vehicle I didn’t know about before. Can’t wait to see what else you cover in the future!
Thank you very much :)
I've always thought for a film, if money was no option, a mini series, pick one armor unit from 1941 and show the progression from Lee tanks to Pershings or in this case from the halftracks with french 75s to the M36.
The iranian army used M36B1s during the Iran-Irak war, some of them were captured by the iraquis and later found by US forces during the 2003 invasion of irak
I got my first job as a Barber in 1988, I worked with 3 WW II Veterans. In thos days the average WW II Vet was 63 to 67 years old. Our shop was popular, with loads of Vets coming in. Guys from "The Big One," Korea, and of course Vietnam. Well, one of my customers was a Veteran tanker from the 70th Tank Battalion, 1st Armored. (Sorry, its been years, but the division he was in had that "Spearhead" on the patch) this man had been in Italy, and then Normandy. He was in a Sherman. He said they came through one of those hedges, and there, about 150 yards away, was a Tiger Tank. The Sherman immediately fired, and the shell "bounced off the Tiger and shot way up in the air, like a glowing tennis ball." He told me that the crew of the Tiger "must have been kids, or new, because after the first shot hit their Tiger, they piled out of the (unharmed) tank and ran into some woods nearby." The Sherman fired four more shots in quick succession, with no damage to the tiger. "Then," he told me, "I was looking through the periscope, and saw an old German Sgt, yelling at the Tiger Crew, and gesturing at us" The Crew got back into the Tiger, and fired a shell, which "went clean through our Tank, took my drivers head off and destroyed our turret." Later they made improvements... Crazy.
that's a crazy story. fk that Sgt for making those kids do that
My dad was assigned as a radio operator for an m10 in world war II. he didn't really talk about the war but I was working on a plastic model of an M10 when I was a kid and he told me about a time when they were strafed by an ME-109.
Very cool! I just thought that there was only 1 tanker killer upgrade & it was made to an M3/M4 hull. Love learning new things!
I love your vid
I suggest a m18 hellcat, my fav tank
Edit : the fastest tank/tank destroyer (maybe)
With an aircraft engine lol
Yes the fastest tank of ww2
@@mortache The M6 Heavy tank has the same Wright engine as the B-17.
Well we did used it during NATO aggression against Yugoslavia 1999, Gun was 90mm not sure if it was original or home made, but it was used for infantry support with HE round home made, of course much better than ammunition's from 50 or 60, it had motor replaced with diesel and additional armor was putted you can say M36 on steroid but quickly after we would start engine and wait for NATO to bombard it as decoy, then repair or just put engine from Tractor and again watch it destroyed again also T34-85 we would use same tactic.
In WW2, the fastest way to get a tank destroyer knocked out, was to call it a tank.
At least according to the vet stories on documentaries.
Imagine being the commander of an open-top machine designed to shoot at distance and then quickly change position, and some CO tells you to go support infantry through a town.
I'd get court martialed.
Thanks for covering this! My favorite ground vehicle in WWII is the M10, not sure why. My grandfather was a tank commander of ex-US M36 Jacksons during the early 1950s for the Italian Army. Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much!
@@RedWrenchFilms no problem, I know I don’t have a large channel, but would love to collaborate maybe in the future! I’m a tank nut as well!
@@svgproductions72 Hey I think I had the same amount of subs as you in January so things can change quick! If you've got discord it would be great to have a chat :)
Why not jagdpanzer iv?
I first heard of the M10 and M36 in a WW2 RTS game called R.U.S.E where both were good TDs at the points in a game in which you'd acquire them, the M10 being amazing in the early game and if you set the game's time period to be up to 1942, and the M36 was amazing in the late game or in the 1945 time period in order to kill prototypes like the Maus and IS-3, so it's good to see a video detailing both of these TDs in detail, amazing word as always!
This is good stuff
Perhaps we could see the Hellcats next?
Hats off to the gentleman who created this video. The research and production is as good, if not better, than any documentary one might find on the History Channel.
Thanks so much! Very kind words.
Thants for the awesome video! My uncle served in the 15A 630 Tank Division Battalion, C Company. His battalion patch is the face of a tiger biting a outline of a tank in black and orange. I am into scale models and never built tanks so the M36 will be my next project. Will use this video for visual reference...
I am happy you did a great video on American TD's as they never get much love on the internet...!!!!!!
The picture of the Abrams and it’s grandfather is amazing 👌
Second favourite US ww2 tank behind the T14
Don’t forget the Sherman Firefly with the 17-Pdr which was great at killing tigers
The 17-pounder had slightly more punch than the 76mm gun, but its HE ammo was deficient. Or so says the wiki.
@@jefferyroy2566it knocked out Tigers for fun, my dad was a gunner with the royal artillery and used the 17pounder, he said it was better than the German 88mm and could’ve been adapted for anti aircraft work but the frame would’ve needed modifying.
17 pounders knocking out Tigers was uncommon. Only around a dozen Tigers were lost to 17 pounders.
When the Tigers of Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 101 knocked out most of the 44 Shermans of Worthington Force at Estrees la Campagne on 9th August 1944 there were Fireflies there yet not a single Tiger was lost. So what were the Fireflies doing?
@lynby6231
The 17 pounder was definitely not better than the 88mm L/71 that the King Tiger and Jagdpanther had.
Great vid as always
What about the M18 Hellcat. It had the best kill-to-lose ratio of any US tank or tank destroyer in WW2 and destroyed the most enemy vehicles. Although of course it was based on the M22 Locust chassis.
Hey red wrench it's me again I have a request, can you make a video about the AMX light tanks? I've been very curious in it's history,but if you can't make a video about the AMX light tanks because you have other plans in mind,it's ok because I'm always gonna watch your videos no matter what.
Would love to!
Thank you so much!!
I notice the T14 assault tank also had those rivet style bolts, I wonder if it was intended to also have applique armor
You got my like with the bit about the filler-caps. That little snippet will get the ladies swooning !
Highly underrated vehicles, I miss any mention of the Achilles tho?
The achilles was based on the M10, not the M36. So although he talked about the M10 at the start it isn’t surprising the video does not mention the achilles.
@@2ndcomingofFritzthats true.. keep in mind the M36 was primarily a M10 with a different turret. If memory serves most if not all the M10's used for training or combat attrition replacements in the US were converted to the M36. Forget how many exactly but it was around 8-900 vehicles.
There's an image of one around 13:30 but aside from that I didn't mention it really!
continue doing this stuff, we love it, and even always upgrading!
Love the videos, keep it up! ❤️
Thanks :)
Entertaining and informative video ones again, thank you for makeing these
Thanks so much!
Great video. When you mentioned the upgraded ammunition, I went and checked my collection and found one of the T30 E16 casings and projectile. It's always nice to find out new info on things you have sitting around.
It amazes me how many different variants, and keeping track of them that went on to get where we are by the end of the war.
8:12 😂 LMAO “they listened very carefully, then decided to ignore him”
Been a fan of tanks all my life and really enjoy your videos man! Glad to see the channel's growing big enough where you can start making money off it!
They are on their last leg in this day and age, the price tag isn't worth it in comparison to cheap loitering ammunition buzzards
Nice on the details of the evolution of the Tank destroyer
Tank Destroyer Command: "We don't need the M36, we have tank destroyers already. Why would we want a 90mm anyway?"
**Tiger and Panther appear**
Ordnance Department: "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me."
My favorite vehicles of ww2 add the tank destroyers and tank hunters. Especially Hellcat and Jackson.
He stated that they probably didn't actually call it the "Jackson". Well, having been a 45 year old colonel in the tank brigades in WW2, I know that the _REAL_ name for it was the M-36 "B*tch Slapper". 😉
Great video one of the best looking tanks ever keep up the good work
Thanks!
Love those tank, people should talk more about Jackson.
Thanks for the video. My father, I believe, was in each of these during WWII with the 818th TD Battalion.
So interesting - a very brave man!
@@RedWrenchFilms The video did not mention something he once described to me as requiring composure in extremis. The TD got stuck in the mud, so the crew (including him, the loader) had to get out and detach the tread and lay it down so that it could be driven over to escape the mud, and then they had to move the tread so that it could be driven onto and re-attached. The challenging part was that they accomplished this while being fired at by the enemy.
Like very many veterans, he didn't talk about his war experience much. He left stateside for ETO on January 25, 1945, arrived 14 days later, and probably got to the 818th about the time it was being reconstituted or reorganized in February, and perhaps that is when they got the M36. A short time later, he had his first combat experience, which I believe was serving as miscellaneous artillery, exchanging fire across a river with the last German-held position on the Siegfried Line. That was right around his 19th birthday, 9 months after he graduated from high school.
Definitely be referring to it as the Jackson, Stonewall was an amazing General.
M36 jackson is one of my favorite tank destroyers of any of it's similar capabilitied competitors
0:10 only if I could do that in war thunder
The M10 and 3in gun were capable of defeating Panther armor much further than a few hundred yards. The issue, like for most US tanks, tank destroyers, and AT guns was the lack of HVAP ammunition. The 76mm and 3in used the same ammunition and had very similar barrel lengths so this shouldn't be surprising. Also the M10s weren't really used in a head on role, they were operationally defensive. As you note though, commanders often used them differently than their doctrine was intended. It was still an armored thing with big direct fire gun on tracks so if you needed a bunker or other position blasted to support the infantry, well if you lack Shermans, grab the M10s, M18s, or M36s. Especially as German armor became less of a threat due to numbers and supply issues, this became a dominant role. If memory serves, their AP rounds had some use in "bunker busting" of the day.
came across a destroyed yugoslav m36 recently. Promptly climbed on it
Great research on the development of these machines! Thank you.
Now I want to "Up Armor" my RC 1/6 scale M5 Stuart. All kidding aside, thanks for posting. This is a very interesting video.
The M-36 needs and deserves a WW2 movie. Love the videos, keep it up! ️.
Another great video about a great vehicle❤️
8:13 ''The VA, your back pain isn't service connected''
Congrats on getting a sponsor
The M4A3E8 or the “Easy Eight” which came out in Europe by 1944 with a 76 mm gun. This gun could penetrate Tiger 1 and the Panther.
Only at close range frontally without HVAP.
How cool! I never knew about these, and I'm a war baby- that war.
The M-36 needs and deserves a WW2 movie. The M-36 needs and deserves a WW2 movie.
Another amazing video👍
Thank you!
I really like what Yugoslavia did with their M36s, replacing the old engines which even if their relations to the US would have been good, were the tanks themselves simply out of production for over 20 years at that point. Upgrading them with the at that point very modern and powerful T55 engine was really was an good move to hold them as reliable working machines.
The M-36 was used during the Yugoslav Wars in the 90’s Mainly because the Yugoslav army the JNA had acquired them in the 1950’s from the United States In the aftermath of the Stalin Tito split and when the Yugoslav wars started the tanks were still in service and though mainly used in an infantry support role and as a self propelled gun it saw service on nearly all sides of the Yugoslav wars in one form or another
I seem recall reading a late WW II (declassified) pamphlet which discussed the capability of the M36 as a concrete bunker buster in the planned invasion of the Japanese home islands. M82 APC & M71 HE shells would have quire an effect. (This reminiscent of Germany using some 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37 was bunker busters in 1940.) I recall the 155 mm GMC M40 was also evaluated using likely M112 APC shells and the standard HE (M101?). Imagine being in a concrete bunker while a battery or battalion of 155 mm cannon (not howitzers) firing volleys of 155 mm APC shells from quite a distance. Then the 90 mm guns of M36s and possibly M26s roll up behind a massive TOT of field, corps and naval artillery. Good thing for all involved this became overcome by events.
M10s we’re often misused in some battles as tanks and so no surprise turrets crews were killed by mortars, grenades and snipers. Also the manual only traverse was a stupid idea.
4:10 What's with that fast turret traverse on that M10? :D
Much ado about HVAP, but the video didn’t mention T33 90mm had excellent penetration and worked very well against sloped armor. It was accurate and was better than HVAP for longer ranges. It was ultimately standardized for the M3 90mm, and still used in the M48 Patton 90mm with a new cartridge casing and more propellant.
M36 was found to bhe a great support vehicle in Bosnia and Yugoslavia and was retired only in 2004!
What's funny is TDs were supposed to be all gun and motor, and little else. They made the M36 with bolt-on armor to increase it's protection. Then later they gave it an 1-inch thick steel folding cover to protect the otherwise open top. Then after that they installed a hull-MG for more anti-infantry capabilities. Basically it slowly evolved into a medium tank and became a testament to the flawed US TD doctrine.
The M36 never really used any of its bolt-on armour. The entire project was an extension of the M10, which was, itself, a stop gap tank destroyer that attempted to field the 3 Inch gun in a sensible way. Neither vehicle really fit that well into the US TD doctrine so I don’t think it’s all that fair to draw that comparison. M18 a great example of the TD doctrine when actually applied.
5:58 glad to know HE is OP in real life as well
Germany made some tanks with great guns and armor. We tend to forget what maintenance nightmares they were!
@ Red Wrench Films - Just wanted to say thanks for a well-done and interesting video! Great job....
M18 was amazing too. 72mph top speed!
i play the M36B2 in war thunder, and i loooove destroying panthers through the frontal armor. cool to see this is accuarate and did actually happen
I didn’t Know They Built Anything off Old Grant and Lees
Or that My Favorite Fast Big Boom Boi was Just another Sherman Variant
Pogging
Here before 50k! Keep up the great videos!
Really interesting !
Towards the end, Germany had run out of one particular resource, i forget the name, but it prevented their tank armour from being brittle.
I'd bet that those 2 hits on that Panther showed that this tank was made after they ran out of, er, something. Some other metal for the alloy
Putting that 6" hole and then shattering the turret is a giveaway I'd think.
According to Isaac D White, Commanding General of US 2nd Armored Division in his report sent to Eisenhower on March 20th 1945:
"" Tank Destroyer, M36: Has not lived up to expectations, but when HVAP ammunition becomes available it is hoped that it will be more effective. Fighting compartment precludes efficient service of the piece and available ammunition is not effective at required long range""
That doesn't make any sense at all because the m36 had the 90mm on it and you only hear about hvap when it comes the 76mm which nonsense also because the M18 was effective without it. Most platoons didn't want the Jackson because it was no needed.
@@chadjustice8560
Well, take it up with the personnel in US 2nd Armored Division. Don't forget, by late 1944 the Panther was now more prevalent than the Panzer IV. The Jagdpanzer IV was turning up in numbers and though not common the Tiger II and Jagdpanther were around.
Brigadier General J. H. Collier
Commanding Combat Command A, 66th Armored Regiment :
"" The consensus of opinion of all personnel in the 66th Armored Regiment is that the German tank and anti-tank weapons are far superior to the American in the following categories:
The German guns have a much higher muzzle velocity and no tell-tale flash. The resulting flat trajectory gives great penetration and is very accurate.
The 90-mm, although an improvement, is not as good as either the longer 75 or 88. If HVAP ammunition becomes available, it will improve the performance of both the 76-mm and 90-mm guns""
Lt. Col. Wilson M. Hawkins
Commanding 3rd Battalion, 67th Armored Regiment:
""My personal opinion about the comparative quality of U.S. and German tanks can be stated briefly as follows: if such a choice were possible, I would prefer to fight in the present German Mark V or VI tank against the present U.S. medium tank and tank destroyer with the 90-mm gun. … The feeling among the tank crew personnel, men who have four, five and six full campaigns to their credit, is the same. The tank gun is the most vital factor in tank fighting. I know of many cases to prove the fact that the German 75-mm and 88-mm mounted on Mk IV, V, and VI tanks will penetrate our tanks, while our weapons will not penetrate theirs at the same range. The higher muzzle velocity of the German guns increases their accuracy, as range estimation are of less importance with such a flat trajectory. I have fired all our tank weapons and know this to be so.""
Here is general White on the 90mm again:
""The M26 medium tank has not as yet been issued to this division and consequently no comments can be made. Experience with the M36 tank destroyer with 90-mm gun indicates that this should be a highly effective tank when HVAP ammunition becomes available. Its issue to this division is eagerly awaited.""
Again, he mentions HVAP with the 90mm.
Keep in mind that testing ground results are not the same as battlefield actuality.
@@chadjustice8560
General White again on the overall tank gun situation:
"The most important point, and upon which there is universal agreement, is our lack of a tank gun and anti-tank gun with which we can effectively engage enemy armor at the required range. The correction of this deficiency has made progress, but the problem has not as yet been satisfactorily solved"
Again, don't shoot the messenger. That's straight from the commanding general of the most battle tested US armoured division in NW Europe.
Another enjoyable bit of history filling in some rarely discussed gaps. WRT the penetration of Panthers or Tigers, one must remember that by the end of the war (late 44/45) when the 90mm gun was being fielded, the quality of German armour had severely declined due to a lack of alloying metals (e.g., Mo). That might explain the need for 2 or 3 hits to achieve penetration (the first serving to crack the armour). I think this was mentioned in another Red Wrench Film but I cannot find the source.
According to Isaac D White, Commanding General of US 2nd Armored Division in his report sent to Eisenhower on March 20th 1945:
"" Tank Destroyer, M36: Has not lived up to expectations, but when HVAP ammunition becomes available it is hoped that it will be more effective. Fighting compartment precludes efficient service of the piece and available ammunition is not effective at required long range""
Hell yeah! My favourites!
Can't wait for that IS video
My dad fought in WWII in M-10s. Royal Canadian Artillery.
There was a m36 for sale about 5 years ago was with Yugoslavia and had a live gun. Many nights dreaming of buying her.
The American tank destroyer branch was disbanded for a reason. The open top made the crews vulnerable to artillery and the thin armor made them vulnerable to... everything. After a few weeks in Normandy, the Americans started retrofitting the Shermans with 76mm canons like the British Fireflies. When the M-26 Pershing finally arrived in 1945, no one thought twice about shelving the tank destroyers.
Well, yes and no. The MBT made the tank destroyer obsolete just as it made the Medium and Heavy tanks obsolete. You no longer had to trade mobility for armour. The introduction of missiles to the battlefield saw a resurgence, however, with lightly armoured, mobile anti-tank guided missile vehicles emerging in the 50s and 60s.
Also the 76mm wasn’t “retrofitted” per se, but had been in development for around 2 years by that point, and required a whole new turret, unlike the firefly.
13:34 we don't have any log's,steel plates,or sand bags to help protect us lets use some jerry cans
My boi is getting sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends now, welcome to big league
I always have and always will maintain that the sherman was the best tank of the war, purely due to its versatility. Doesnt matter who you are or what you need, there was always a sherman for it. You need a tiger dead? Here, have an M36.
great video... but just a few more minutes of combat footage of the M-36 in use in final days of war, or even just battles where it was deployed in would have been a nice wrap-up to the history of its long development
Great content and photos.
17pdr was the best AT gun of the war, more potent than the 88! The firefly was a cracking weapon as a tank killer
The 88mm was more accurate and did more damage, particularly the L/71. The 88mm L/71 was the best anti tank gun of WW2 and the best gun fitted to any armour (King Tiger, Jagdpanthers, Nashorn).
@lyndoncmp5751 isn't it amazing how we've all read or heard different about these guns...my ones better than yours nerrr etc either way both were serious bits of kit, and in the right hands capable of destroying pretty much any armour it came up against. Thank you for your input as well
@@Ord_Wingate
Well I'd say the various opinions stem from there being two different 88s. The L/56 that the Tiger I had and the L/71 that the King Tiger and Jagdpanther had. The 17 pounder did have more armour penetration than the L/56 version but not more than the L/71. It was less accurate than both and didn't have as powerful a high explosive shell. Still, the 17 pounder was a great anti tank gun. No doubt. The best the western allies had.
Cheers.
I still love the US military's hubris always getting snubbed. "Nah, we won't need the 90mm TD or 76mm M4, we've never even seen the Tiger or Panther!" *sees them* "oh fuck! Get the up-gunned vehicles!"