all respect to Landos and his achievements, but i’ve never heard of him either. other than wrestling historians i doubt many people have ever heard of Jim Londos, which is why i wouldn’t think he could be the Babe Ruth of wrestling. Babe Ruth is a household name even to people who have never seen a baseball game. I would think wrestlers who have transcended wrestling and became pop culture icons would be considered the BRoW….Flair, Hogan, Macho, Stone Cold or the Rock.
Londos was the biggest superstar in wrestling in the 1930s. Ed Lewis and Tuts Mondt revolutionized wrestling in the late 1910s and early 1920s introducing time limits, finishers and more styles of wrestling. After they had created that, even though Lewis was a big star, they needed a flag bearer, an icon, and that was Jim Londos. Without Londos there's no Lou Thesz, no Buddy Rogers, Bruno Sanmartino, Harley Race, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin...you name it. London wasn't a pioneer exactly but he was definitely a trailblazer.
Babe Ruth was actually in the Wrasslin Business too! He refereed in matches after being tired of being out of Baseball! What a LEGEND! The GREATEST SPORTS ICON EVER!
Back then it was called Slam Bang Western Style wrestling and it was created by Strangler Lewis and Toots Mondr. It was a combination of boxing, Olympic wrestling, freestyle,...with more thetrics. Some of today's standard moves like piwerslams and suplexes with their variations started back then. Before that it was all about grappling, takedowns, tests of strength...and the matches took forever. This was a lot more entertaining. It's like if wrestlers today trained in all sorts of martial arts, boxing, Olympic wrestling and also about staged fighting and how to do it well. These days everyone wants to combine Lucha Libre with Japanese Strong Style, and that's not bad but they're forgetting about the theatrical part and they also forget about the wrestling in professional wrestling.
Lou Thesz. So many firsts that he changed the way the game was played. Was actually idolized and his influence cannot be overstated on the next several generations. All-time Great of the Greats and initial member several HOFs. Pretty similar to Babe.
Londos is another reminder that there really is no such thing as “leaving a legacy” for anyone other than .0001% . On practically all time lines everyone is forgotten.
That’s true. I also feel like Londos is a good demonstration of the difference between fame and celebrity. No doubt Londos was a famous sports star of his era. But the fact that he’s mostly forgotten just some decades later *even* by wrestling fans today, shows the difference between him and, say, Hulk Hogan. We’re 40 years on from Hogan’s peak, and I feel like people worldwide still remember who he is. And it’s mostly because he’s been an on and off fixture in the news (mostly controversially) as a celebrity for decades since then, whereas Londos just quietly retired in the early 50s and did charity work. IMO, that’s a more honorable way to leave this earth.
Being 59 years old and from Pittsburgh, PA, Bruno was a legend as I was growing up so it's nice to hear his name mentioned here. You guys are great wrestling historians. One of the reasons why I enjoy your podcast 👍
I’ve been a wrestling fan for most of my life, I’m 41 now…had heard the name Jim Londos before,but never saw any of his work…but after listening to this I went back and watched some of his matches…dude was legit bad@$$ and could really wrestle…I now have a whole new respect and appreciation for Jim Londos
Gosh I love when Jim and Brian talk about the history of wrestling. Contemporary issues and their take is great, but hardly anyone knows about the past, let alone speaks about it for us to listen to for free.
The only problem is they are completely biased and down play stuff to prop up other guys/promotions to fit their narrative. Cornette is a carny no doubt and will down play guys careers and achievements because he has an axe to grind still.
Corny got it right the first time. Ed Lewis. They were similar characters, similar physically, and buddies. And I would argue that Strangler Lewis resonated more with the public than Jim Londos. Londos was actually bigger within wrestling but I don't think outside it
@@kevinshields4643 Yeah he was the biggest draw absolutely but I still don't think he had the general public recognition. That's what I meant by 'within wrestling'. There were a few people everybody knew were wrestlers the second they were mentioned. I'm not sure Londos was one of them. But 'Strangler Lewis' had that immediate identification. Carnera had it from being boxing champion. The French and Swedish Angels had it from being such freaks. Gorgeous George in his day.
Or to put it a different way, if you asked people on the street to name a ballplayer, most of them would have said Babe Ruth. If you asked them to name a wrestler, I think most of them would have said Strangler Lewis.
Yes, Bruno Sammartino is a legend. But he only drew big in WWWF's northeastern territory, so Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston etc. He did well in Toronto in the 60s because of the big Italian community too.
Negative, he did numerous tours of Japan, Australia, South America. He didn’t have to wrestle around the United States. He wrestled 6 days a week and went home every Sunday. With all the big city’s in the Northeast how would he have time to wrestle anywhere else.
I always felt Hulk Hogan was the Babe Ruth of wrestling (Larger than Life), HBK as the Willie Mays of wrestling (All around) & Bret Hart (Technical wrestler) as the Ted Williams (Greatest Hitter) of wrestling.
@Old Man But he only got that over in the northeast. I'd put Thesz or Gagne over Sammartino if only for the sole fact that those two had to get over in a lot more space of the country than Sammartino had to.
I really enjoy these type of videos. I think so many people need to know about the wrestlers of the past to appreciate the art of wrestling even more. I love professional wrestling!
Londos invented the modern Babyface (the facial expressions, playing to the crowd), which is why his size didn't matter. Others worked Babyface before but not like this. This was the prototype of Ricky Morton, which is why size worked in his favor. He would spend matches getting the stuffing beaten out of him before pulling the win out in the end.
Babe Ruth is a household name for people that have never watched a baseball game. Villagers in Afghanistan in 2010 when I was there knew who Hulk Hogan was. I'm a big fan since the 80's and never heard of Jim londos. I'd maybe say Bruno could also hold that mantle.
I would say Hogan for that reason you just mentioned, Hogan was a household name globally while Bruno is a wrestling legend no doubt about it, but he was a territorial and a national star at best.
@@bdot187um Territorial and national stars at best don't have sellout on top of sellout in places like Canada, Japan, Puerto Rico, and Australia. They don't draw 40,000 people to a bullfighting ring in goddamn Venezuela. The idea that Bruno was only big in one area or market is just silly.
These are always my favorite conversations, love hearing about the guys from yesteryear. Especially when you think about the incredible drawing power Landis had for lunch and had with us had it’s amazing to me to hear about, I’d love to hear more conversations about this stuff. Thanks.
I was born in the 70s and been a wrestling fan since i started watching television and i cant think of anyone who was more marketable and took wrestling to another level and audience than Hulk Hogan. I grew up in the south watching mostly nwa/wcw so i was a little stinger but I have to give Hogan his due.
Hogan revived wrestling on a international level. He was a sporting figure as big as Mike Tyson during the 80s. Had wrestling continued with the NWA style, it would've died out by the 90s.
I know he’s hated by many, but I’ll say Hogan. Because of him, professional wrestlers went from localized promotions, to one (WWF) dominating the world. Forty years later, it’s still number 1. Baseball all ready was basically one major organization by the time of Babe Ruth. (There was others, but they didn’t compete in anyway like MLB.
yeah I dont understand how hulk isn't the answer....hulk literally made the WWF / WWE what it became in the 80s...honestly you can go as far to say that without hulk there would be no vince, HULKAMANIAs real success and how big it was seems like its being erased from history pretty easy....
@@kinggambino3698 I agree with MOST of that except that there’d be no Vince. Love or hate McMahon,its his machine that really forced Hogan down throats. Its the ULTIMATE push. A singer can have all the talent in the world but without the machine pushing them,nobody will ever see it. The WWWF had already had Bruno,if it wasnt Hogan,Vince could’ve done that many talents of that time. Hogan was extremely unique tho but I dnt think McMahon would’ve failed without him.
In some parts of Greece and Cyprus from Boomers that traveled the world to work for their families and that are still living if you whisper the name Londos they frigging wake up in awe.
TY Cobb was a lot better with money than Flair. TY Cobb is one of the people that were major stock holders in a new cola company called Coca-Cola with real cocaine before the government told them to remove it.
Easy. Gorgeous George. By Brian Last's standards anyway. Lou Thesz as far as inventing pro wrestling as we know it, but George Wagner as far as inventing the gimmick as we know it, the television star as we know it, the heel as we know it. edit:The problem with Londos is that casual fans don't know him anymore because promoters do little to keep his memory alive, unlike Babe Ruth, who still has a Candy Bar. That's an inditement on the wrestling business, but it is what it is.
Babe Ruth revived MLB. MLB just came off of the Black Sox scandal, sell-out crowds during the Great Depression, and an owner made millions on a candy bar named Bay Ruth (owner claimed it was named after his granddaughter. I can't imagine Charles Atlas wrestling. I think Corny is right. In today's times, nobody will be an over for 20 plus years.
Babe Ruth is often overlooked by just how good a *PITCHER* he was. In fact, so good at pitching, there was a chance he might've been a hall of famer just on pitching alone had he never swung a bat. Sure the league was diluted back then (color barrier); but it's hardly like he had anything to do with that. I believed he pitched a 'no hitter' in the World Series.
I would like Jim to give us a rundown of the all timers. I always assumed that Austin was the biggest draw ever. Since Vince said he was at his HOF Induction
Austin was the biggest star of the company known as WWF, but historically wrestling was huge even in comparison to the Hogan and Austin eras. With so few forms of entertainment available, especially before TV was widespread, everyone had to go out and find things to do or buy tickets for shows to see, and wrestling was a significant part of it. It's like back when there were only 4 TV channels, even the 4th place shows were still somewhat well known and still got millions of viewers and made money. Modern wrestling has to compete against 100 channels and the entire Internet. I have no idea what order the biggest stars of the past would go in though. It's crazy how little footage there is of these huge stars, how Babe Ruth is a household name but even lifelong wrestling fans have never heard of Londos because no one has seen him
I know this is probably an unpopular opinion these days but objectively speaking the biggest draw ever is probably Hulk Hogan. He's responsible for not one but two boom periods and he's still to this day the one wrestler that everyone can name including your grandma and the president. Like Hogan or not but you can't deny his star power.
People are kind of living in a time capasule in this comments section saying things like, "If you ask someone off the street to name a wrestler, they will say Hulk Hogan!" The Rock and John Cena are legit mainstream personalities. Either one of them in 2022 would probably get named first. The Rock is the biggest star in the world regardless of industry.
The Rock and Cena feel bigger currently because of their out of the ring career however When you consider wrestling career internationally Hogan was bigger than Cena and the Rock. Neither were as big in Japan or Europe as Hogan during his time and I don’t even like Hogan.
@@oslowilde6961 They are both just plain bigger and are known as wrestlers and actors. Cena is huge in China. The Rock can't go anywhere without being known. The Rock is like the biggest star on planet earth. Hogan was the biggest wrestling star, yes, but he was never as famous as Arnold or Sylvester or like Harrison Ford. The Rock is, and Cena is in like everything too and is pretty close.
The Rock is nowhere near as big as hulk Hogan in wresting , a huge fan base of the Hollywood star Dwayne Johnson are not even aware he use to be a wrestler don't talk nonsense , there is no bigger name in the WRESTLING BUSINESS than Hulk Hogan period
@@Securebootcybertraining Bullshit. He has a TV show chronicling his life as young boy and teen that is based around Wrestling. Everybody knows he was a wrestler.
There's so many "fans" who are obviously just out of diapers or SOMETHING🙄. Flair used to mention the predecessors in the NWA. So did Bradshaw did at times on commentary. Heck even Kenny Olivier and his manager mention the old-timers in wrestling
As a huge fan of the MLB This Artwork is Absolutely Hilarious Awesome Job Travis you're the best and hopefully the New York Mets win the world Series this Year that's wishful thinking.
For me its hogan. His name will live forever, the names jim was saying only hardcore wrestling fans know. Im no baseball fan, and i know who babe ruth was. My grandma didnt watch wrestling but knew who hulk hogan was.
Londos also drew crowds of over 30,000 regularly to baseball parks, including Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park. He was huge without television or pay per view. It was radio and newspapers.
Here's the problem: as great as Londos was in his time, he wasn't a Babe Ruth. Ruth transcended baseball, and I think that's the issue. There's an old story about WWII when an American soldier, drinking with a Brit, said "Screw King George!" The Brit thought a moment, and said "Screw Babe Ruth!" Londos was not in that category. I'd say the most likely was Gorgeous George, who not only was great in the ring but drew tremendous attention and fans.
disagree, what your saying maybe true ,you can't compare then to now Jim, plus the difference is Babe Ruth was a (household name) i've watched wrestling my whole life and never heard of him and i ain't no newborn, to me based on your own criteria, it would have to be Hogan, and not to mention, which run of Hogan's on top were you referring to? because he had 2 runs, one as a babyface and as a heel. and everything you give Londos credit for Hogan did to. lol.
Because he was born in 1894 and was famous in the 1930’s and 40’s, died in 1975. I’m not a wrestling historian either and I wasn’t aware of him either until Corny mentioned him. I’ve been watching wrestling since 1983
Possibly an unpopular opinion here but... yeah. Babe Ruth wasn't the most technically sound player of his time by a longshot but he was the 1st player to make more money than the president of the U.S. He was also the only ball player non baseball fans would mention if asked to name a player. Under these guidelines and criteria, Hulk Hogan is the Babe Ruth of Wrestling. He's more well known than any wrestler before him and, with exception of maybe Rock and Stone Cold, maybe still is. He made more money for himself and wrestling in general than anybody else as well. His presence, like it or not, lifted the value of his whe industry. I realize purists hate this fact but there it is... a fact.
@@bdot187um just asked my wife, who knows nothing about wrestling this question... She said Hulk Hogan. Sometimes, wrestling fans need to look outside the wrestling bubble for a dose of reality. Whatever the case, Happy New Year's to you from across the universe.
i agree with Jim Cornette & Brian Last for taking Londos as the biggest wtestling star ever. the reason he is not well known today as guys like Hogan & flair is because he and his contemporaries competed in the pre tv era & there's very few footage of him. also, the present day wtestling companies do not talk highly of him and his contemporaries because he never worked for them. But Londos was & is the biggest draw in the history of wrestling. he was the biggest draw for more than 20 years. think about that.
Bruno Sammartino for the 1960’s and 70’s he filled the largest arenas and baseball stadiums in the United States consistently. Lou Thesz for the 1940’s and 50’s he was phenomenal.
I would have to wonder though how deep was the pool of talent when he was no.1 during the 30s? Its easy to be no.1 when there isn't many people to fight against.
@@DarksaberForce Big Swole said AEW's second biggest problem after not having time for people on the roster is their "diversity." She was otherwise complimentary of the company and Tony but that's what made headlines. Tony responded on twitter by noting all the "diverse" talents that won this month (mostly non black talent though) and that him and someone else are 2 brown AEW top executives. The part that got people riled up was him saying he left Swole's contract expire because he doesn't like how she wrestles. It was very disrespectful, especially from an executive. Some people came to Tony's defense. Others expressed their disappointment in his response. Leo Rush demanded an apology for Swole. It was a whole big thing and bad mistep by TK.
I think they got the question wrong, I think the person was asking who is the all time biggest star ever (The "Babe Ruth of") and that answer whether you love him or hate him is Hulk Hogan. Ask a person who has never watched a wrestling match to name one professional wrestler, they'll probably say: "Hulk Hogan".
Since 1997 there hasn't been a bigger, better or more important name to wrestling since Austin. He wasn't the first but he took wrestling to a level it never seen and it won't see it again. It's Austin
No perfect comparison exists but Londos is a good choice. He performed in the same era as Ruth. Bruno would be my 2nd choice for Ruth comparison. Repeatedly sold out MSG for a decade with a rabid following for better than a decade. Technically Ruth never "drew money" in the south, major league baseball was an eastern, north the the Mason-Dixon line National and American League Ruth's era.
The Babe Ruth of wrestling cannot, by definition, be someone that most people have never heard of. Even people who hate baseball know who Babe Ruth is and identify him as a legendary figure in baseball. The only thing close is Hulk Hogan.
I'd love to know if Corny knows anything about Cinderella Man or Max Bear or Jumpin Joe or Corn whatever his name was. Old boxing looked ridiculous. and no I don't just mean a movie lol
You could make an argument for Strangler Lewis too, given his popularity and influence on the sport in the 1920's. There's also a well known pic of him and Babe Ruth together, which is pretty cool to see.
Gorgeous George is credited as one of the two men who sold the USA on home TVs. THAT is bigger than anything Hogan ever did. Hogan made pro-wrestling into the equivalent of pop music.
@@RyanAcidhedzMurphy This. Wrestling never would have gotten to the point to where Hogan did what he did if not for people like George, Buddy Rogers, Lou Thesz and Verne Gagne.
Hulk Hogan is the only answer. As much respect as I have lost for the guy over the years, he was the one to bring wrestling to the mass public. He was the first mega star, I mean he even had his own cartoon show. WrestleMania made wrestling a main stream event and he headlined 8 of the first 9 and had a major role in the one he didn't (WrestleMania 4).
@@brettatwood2797 Wrestling's been in the mass public since the 1910's. In the 1950's damn near everyone was watching it on the TV, long before hogan. Lets not attribute Hogan to things he didn't really do. No, what he did was take one company national, while the side effect was doing a whole hell of a lot of harm to the industry as a whole
The thing about Babe Ruth is that even non-baseball fans know who he is/was .... 100 years later! So, if a lifelong wrestling fan such as myself doesn't know who Londos is, then he can't be the Babe Ruth of wrestling. .... Londos might be the Christy Mathewson of wrestling, he ain't Babe Ruth. To me, the Babe Ruth of wrestling comes down to Andre The Giant or Hulk Hogan. Pick one.
Honestly, I have to go with Hulk Hogan on this one. I know people are sour with him today but let's be real. If it wasn't for Hogan, there'd be no WWE today. There'd be no SCSA, Taker, Rock, HHH, Foley, etc. Hulk Hogan was the one who put wrestling on the map. He helped transition it into the main stream. I don't think there'd be any wrestling right now if it wasn't for The Hulkster.
Hulk Hogan is the TRUE Babe Ruth of wrestling. Anyone who's studied pro wrestling history will know this is evidently true. Wrestling's was fairly popular in different era's, but it never a truw mainstream phenomenon. The 60s and 70s weren't great for business and had Hogan not been around, the 80s would've been the same. Wrestling would've died out in the 90s. Hogan changed that and brought a new larger than life focus to wrestling. His popularity from the Rocky films and natural charisma elevated him to international stardom which helped revive wrestling. Modern wrestling is nothing without Hogan.
In hockey, Daryl Sitler holds the record for most points in a game. 10, 6 goals, 4 assists. Because the game has changed so much over the years, that record will never be broken. The goaltenders are way to good and the overall play has improved so much that scoring that freely in a game is no longer possible. The last good chance for that record to be broken was the high-scoring 1980’s, you know, before the goalies started getting way to good.
The Panthers dropped 9 on the Lightning last Thursday. A team scoring 10 is not unthinkable, certainly unlikely. In that game the Panthers had a player with 5 pts. The trick is that someone would have to factor into 11 goals in a game. I just don't see that happening with how many line changes happen and how deep some of these lines are. Moat hockey records are untouchable.
Lol, had nothing to do with goalies. Everyone knows they didnt play serious defense in the 1980s. That is why all the top scorers are mostly from the 80s. All the scoring records are inflated due to that awful era/error of hockey.
I won't pretend to know that much or become the rare but hilarious historian smark. But I've always heard of Bruno Sammartino being great. Maybe he's closer to a Hank Aaron but he's one of those guys you hear helped push things forward.
The Babe Ruth of wrestling is Ric Flair. I know everyone is sour on him now for some shit we already knew about. But he's always gonna be the best. He had the best promos and the best matches. He wasn't the box office attraction that Hogan was. But he was a heel. His job was to sell tickets to a ass kicking. Where baby faces were the ones that sold merchandise.
Lou Thesz or Bruno Sammartino. I say that because as a 33yr old,I see them in the same vain as Babe Ruth. I’ve seen very little of their work but im confident in their abilities because historians,casual fans and “smart marks” alike all highly regard them in terms of Legacy. One could make the argument for Hogan or eventually Austin just because if you ask anybody wrestling from adult to kid,they’re gonna say Hogan or “Stone Cold”.
@Greg Bailey stop wasting your TIME. Not worth it. .... NOBODY was more over than the IMMORTAL one OTHER than the rock or stone cold... These are just plain facts.
If this dude is the Babe Ruth if wrestling why have I never heard of him? I've been into wrestling since the 80s. Read the magazines growing up. Dad and uncle's would tell me about their favorites growing up. Never heard this guy referenced. I'm not challenging the accuracy of it, just very surprised that a guy was at the top longer than Hogan was and made it into the TV era and I never heard of him. Or at least I didn't hear enough to remember him.
I never even heard of Jim Londos, so thank you Corny for introducing me to him and teaching me just a little about him.
Its easily Landos
Jim Londos
all respect to Landos and his achievements, but i’ve never heard of him either. other than wrestling historians i doubt many people have ever heard of Jim Londos, which is why i wouldn’t think he could be the Babe Ruth of wrestling. Babe Ruth is a household name even to people who have never seen a baseball game. I would think wrestlers who have transcended wrestling and became pop culture icons would be considered the BRoW….Flair, Hogan, Macho, Stone Cold or the Rock.
Londos was the biggest superstar in wrestling in the 1930s. Ed Lewis and Tuts Mondt revolutionized wrestling in the late 1910s and early 1920s introducing time limits, finishers and more styles of wrestling. After they had created that, even though Lewis was a big star, they needed a flag bearer, an icon, and that was Jim Londos. Without Londos there's no Lou Thesz, no Buddy Rogers, Bruno Sanmartino, Harley Race, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin...you name it. London wasn't a pioneer exactly but he was definitely a trailblazer.
When were you born and what wrestling did/do you watch
Babe Ruth was actually in the Wrasslin Business too! He refereed in matches after being tired of being out of Baseball! What a LEGEND! The GREATEST SPORTS ICON EVER!
“Back then, wrestlers actually trained in wrestling……” - Brian Last
The first, and best quote of 2022.
Yep it used to be about 90% were trained in wrestling, and only 10% were pure entertainers, now those are opposite.
I 2nd that 🤣👍🏻
Back then it was called Slam Bang Western Style wrestling and it was created by Strangler Lewis and Toots Mondr. It was a combination of boxing, Olympic wrestling, freestyle,...with more thetrics. Some of today's standard moves like piwerslams and suplexes with their variations started back then. Before that it was all about grappling, takedowns, tests of strength...and the matches took forever. This was a lot more entertaining. It's like if wrestlers today trained in all sorts of martial arts, boxing, Olympic wrestling and also about staged fighting and how to do it well. These days everyone wants to combine Lucha Libre with Japanese Strong Style, and that's not bad but they're forgetting about the theatrical part and they also forget about the wrestling in professional wrestling.
@@maxxdahl6062 and these days they aren't even that good at you know, actually entertaining viewers.
@@michaelunderhill8847 What the hell ya talkin bout Nigga?
Lou Thesz. So many firsts that he changed the way the game was played. Was actually idolized and his influence cannot be overstated on the next several generations. All-time Great of the Greats and initial member several HOFs. Pretty similar to Babe.
Londos is another reminder that there really is no such thing as “leaving a legacy” for anyone other than .0001% . On practically all time lines everyone is forgotten.
If you want to be remembered forever, start a religion.
That’s true. I also feel like Londos is a good demonstration of the difference between fame and celebrity.
No doubt Londos was a famous sports star of his era. But the fact that he’s mostly forgotten just some decades later *even* by wrestling fans today, shows the difference between him and, say, Hulk Hogan.
We’re 40 years on from Hogan’s peak, and I feel like people worldwide still remember who he is. And it’s mostly because he’s been an on and off fixture in the news (mostly controversially) as a celebrity for decades since then, whereas Londos just quietly retired in the early 50s and did charity work.
IMO, that’s a more honorable way to leave this earth.
Being 59 years old and from Pittsburgh, PA, Bruno was a legend as I was growing up so it's nice to hear his name mentioned here. You guys are great wrestling historians. One of the reasons why I enjoy your podcast 👍
Bruno will always be UNO
Kennywood is open
I haven't been to Monroeville in eons. Kennywood probably still had the laser loop , turnpike and log jammer. 🤣 YINZ got terrible sports teams though
It’s better to be first with Last!
Wrestling was regional back then so Bruno was most popular in the Northeast. In Chicago our most popular was far and away Dick The Bruiser.
My Babe Ruth of Pro Wrestling is Bruno Sammartino
What about Andre for big men
Omega for me
I’ve been a wrestling fan for most of my life, I’m 41 now…had heard the name Jim Londos before,but never saw any of his work…but after listening to this I went back and watched some of his matches…dude was legit bad@$$ and could really wrestle…I now have a whole new respect and appreciation for Jim Londos
Gosh I love when Jim and Brian talk about the history of wrestling. Contemporary issues and their take is great, but hardly anyone knows about the past, let alone speaks about it for us to listen to for free.
I would love to hear Jim Cornette talk about the NWA title lineage from Orville Brown onward or Frank Gotch/George Hackenschmidt's rivalry.
Yeah those are his best videos.
The only problem is they are completely biased and down play stuff to prop up other guys/promotions to
fit their narrative. Cornette is a carny no doubt and will down play guys careers and achievements because
he has an axe to grind still.
Corny got it right the first time. Ed Lewis. They were similar characters, similar physically, and buddies. And I would argue that Strangler Lewis resonated more with the public than Jim Londos. Londos was actually bigger within wrestling but I don't think outside it
Money doesn't lie. He outgrew everyone...ever if adjusted for inflation.
@@kevinshields4643 Yeah he was the biggest draw absolutely but I still don't think he had the general public recognition. That's what I meant by 'within wrestling'. There were a few people everybody knew were wrestlers the second they were mentioned. I'm not sure Londos was one of them. But 'Strangler Lewis' had that immediate identification. Carnera had it from being boxing champion. The French and Swedish Angels had it from being such freaks. Gorgeous George in his day.
Or to put it a different way, if you asked people on the street to name a ballplayer, most of them would have said Babe Ruth. If you asked them to name a wrestler, I think most of them would have said Strangler Lewis.
Gorgeous George was also 5'8" and reinvented the business.
Agreed, hands down.
That's who I was thinking
Agreed. And people were shorter in those days. Being 5" 8" in the 1950s would be equal to being like 5" 11" or 6 foot today.
Yes, Bruno Sammartino is a legend. But he only drew big in WWWF's northeastern territory, so Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston etc.
He did well in Toronto in the 60s because of the big Italian community too.
@@CoolCamo that's what I'm saying
Negative, he did numerous tours of Japan, Australia, South America. He didn’t have to wrestle around the United States. He wrestled 6 days a week and went home every Sunday. With all the big city’s in the Northeast how would he have time to wrestle anywhere else.
Gillberg is the real Babe Ruth of wrestling.
I always felt Hulk Hogan was the Babe Ruth of wrestling (Larger than Life), HBK as the Willie Mays of wrestling (All around) & Bret Hart (Technical wrestler) as the Ted Williams (Greatest Hitter) of wrestling.
Flair would be Mickey Mantle, on and off the field/out of the ring
jim londos , El Santo , rikidozan , hulk hogan , frank gotch and gorgeous george are probably the biggest largest than life wrestlers ever
Hogan is more like the Brittney Spears of pro-wrestling. Soulless, manufactured pop for the masses.
Ric Flair is the TY COBB of wrestling. 😂
@Old Man But he only got that over in the northeast. I'd put Thesz or Gagne over Sammartino if only for the sole fact that those two had to get over in a lot more space of the country than Sammartino had to.
I really enjoy these type of videos. I think so many people need to know about the wrestlers of the past to appreciate the art of wrestling even more. I love professional wrestling!
Ir should be Gorgeous George, no one remembers or has heard of those other guys.
Londos invented the modern Babyface (the facial expressions, playing to the crowd), which is why his size didn't matter. Others worked Babyface before but not like this. This was the prototype of Ricky Morton, which is why size worked in his favor. He would spend matches getting the stuffing beaten out of him before pulling the win out in the end.
"Hollywood Hulk Hogan and The Rock. It was Icon versus Icon. It was Bebe Ruth versus Berry Bonds" - Jim Ross
What a great call!
Babe Ruth is a household name for people that have never watched a baseball game. Villagers in Afghanistan in 2010 when I was there knew who Hulk Hogan was. I'm a big fan since the 80's and never heard of Jim londos. I'd maybe say Bruno could also hold that mantle.
I would say Hogan for that reason you just mentioned, Hogan was a household name globally while Bruno is a wrestling legend no doubt about it, but he was a territorial and a national star at best.
@@bdot187um Territorial and national stars at best don't have sellout on top of sellout in places like Canada, Japan, Puerto Rico, and Australia. They don't draw 40,000 people to a bullfighting ring in goddamn Venezuela. The idea that Bruno was only big in one area or market is just silly.
I was expecting Lou Thesz for this.
‘’Londos the biggest star ever? That doesn’t work for me, brother’’
These are always my favorite conversations, love hearing about the guys from yesteryear. Especially when you think about the incredible drawing power Landis had for lunch and had with us had it’s amazing to me to hear about, I’d love to hear more conversations about this stuff. Thanks.
Sammartino can hold that claim
I still buy 1985-1991 WWF original and authentic merchandise today in 2022
I was born in the 70s and been a wrestling fan since i started watching television and i cant think of anyone who was more marketable and took wrestling to another level and audience than Hulk Hogan. I grew up in the south watching mostly nwa/wcw so i was a little stinger but I have to give Hogan his due.
Hogan revived wrestling on a international level. He was a sporting figure as big as Mike Tyson during the 80s. Had wrestling continued with the NWA style, it would've died out by the 90s.
I know he’s hated by many, but I’ll say Hogan.
Because of him, professional wrestlers went from localized promotions, to one (WWF) dominating the world. Forty years later, it’s still number 1.
Baseball all ready was basically one major organization by the time of Babe Ruth. (There was others, but they didn’t compete in anyway like MLB.
yeah I dont understand how hulk isn't the answer....hulk literally made the WWF / WWE what it became in the 80s...honestly you can go as far to say that without hulk there would be no vince, HULKAMANIAs real success and how big it was seems like its being erased from history pretty easy....
Why is your second sentence considered a good thing? This seems like a uniquely American line of thinking.
@@thehammockdistrict5355 because he took over, its admirable. not everyone is communist sorry.
@@kinggambino3698 I agree with MOST of that except that there’d be no Vince. Love or hate McMahon,its his machine that really forced Hogan down throats. Its the ULTIMATE push. A singer can have all the talent in the world but without the machine pushing them,nobody will ever see it. The WWWF had already had Bruno,if it wasnt Hogan,Vince could’ve done that many talents of that time. Hogan was extremely unique tho but I dnt think McMahon would’ve failed without him.
@@kinggambino3698 You love living in a world that rewards sociopaths, you can't get enough of it
Jim is definitely the ultimate wrestling historian
Im gonna say Bruno. Set records that will never be touched again legitimately.
In some parts of Greece and Cyprus from Boomers that traveled the world to work for their families and that are still living if you whisper the name Londos they frigging wake up in awe.
Barry harowitz or Brooklyn brawler would have been my guess
😂😂😂😂😂
Ric Flair was the TY Cobb of wrestling.
Cal Ripken Jr
Steinbrenner
TY Cobb was a lot better with money than Flair. TY Cobb is one of the people that were major stock holders in a new cola company called Coca-Cola with real cocaine before the government told them to remove it.
@@Sonjacrow He also got in on the ground floor of Ford as a player with the Tigers. He is a fascinating character.
Easy. Gorgeous George. By Brian Last's standards anyway. Lou Thesz as far as inventing pro wrestling as we know it, but George Wagner as far as inventing the gimmick as we know it, the television star as we know it, the heel as we know it.
edit:The problem with Londos is that casual fans don't know him anymore because promoters do little to keep his memory alive, unlike Babe Ruth, who still has a Candy Bar. That's an inditement on the wrestling business, but it is what it is.
I knew Jim London, he was related to our family, he was at a family 50th anniversary in Vista Ca.. Interesting guy
Babe Ruth revived MLB. MLB just came off of the Black Sox scandal, sell-out crowds during the Great Depression, and an owner made millions on a candy bar named Bay Ruth (owner claimed it was named after his granddaughter. I can't imagine Charles Atlas wrestling. I think Corny is right. In today's times, nobody will be an over for 20 plus years.
Babe Ruth is often overlooked by just how good a *PITCHER* he was. In fact, so good at pitching, there was a chance he might've been a hall of famer just on pitching alone had he never swung a bat. Sure the league was diluted back then (color barrier); but it's hardly like he had anything to do with that. I believed he pitched a 'no hitter' in the World Series.
@@tomvu1470 You are correct. The Babe was a good pitcher. Assist me, did he pitch for Boston and/or NY?
I would like Jim to give us a rundown of the all timers. I always assumed that Austin was the biggest draw ever. Since Vince said he was at his HOF Induction
Largest draw in WWE, maybe, but not wrestling as a whole
Austin was the biggest star of the company known as WWF, but historically wrestling was huge even in comparison to the Hogan and Austin eras. With so few forms of entertainment available, especially before TV was widespread, everyone had to go out and find things to do or buy tickets for shows to see, and wrestling was a significant part of it.
It's like back when there were only 4 TV channels, even the 4th place shows were still somewhat well known and still got millions of viewers and made money. Modern wrestling has to compete against 100 channels and the entire Internet. I have no idea what order the biggest stars of the past would go in though. It's crazy how little footage there is of these huge stars, how Babe Ruth is a household name but even lifelong wrestling fans have never heard of Londos because no one has seen him
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I know this is probably an unpopular opinion these days but objectively speaking the biggest draw ever is probably Hulk Hogan. He's responsible for not one but two boom periods and he's still to this day the one wrestler that everyone can name including your grandma and the president. Like Hogan or not but you can't deny his star power.
@@JesuszillaS Bruno and Hogan were definitely bigger draws than Austin factoring in longevity and inflation.
People are kind of living in a time capasule in this comments section saying things like, "If you ask someone off the street to name a wrestler, they will say Hulk Hogan!" The Rock and John Cena are legit mainstream personalities. Either one of them in 2022 would probably get named first. The Rock is the biggest star in the world regardless of industry.
The Rock and Cena feel bigger currently because of their out of the ring career however When you consider wrestling career internationally Hogan was bigger than Cena and the Rock.
Neither were as big in Japan or Europe as Hogan during his time and I don’t even like Hogan.
@@oslowilde6961 They are both just plain bigger and are known as wrestlers and actors. Cena is huge in China. The Rock can't go anywhere without being known. The Rock is like the biggest star on planet earth. Hogan was the biggest wrestling star, yes, but he was never as famous as Arnold or Sylvester or like Harrison Ford. The Rock is, and Cena is in like everything too and is pretty close.
The Rock is nowhere near as big as hulk Hogan in wresting , a huge fan base of the Hollywood star Dwayne Johnson are not even aware he use to be a wrestler don't talk nonsense , there is no bigger name in the WRESTLING BUSINESS than Hulk Hogan period
@@Securebootcybertraining Bullshit. He has a TV show chronicling his life as young boy and teen that is based around Wrestling. Everybody knows he was a wrestler.
There's so many "fans" who are obviously just out of diapers or SOMETHING🙄.
Flair used to mention the predecessors in the NWA. So did Bradshaw did at times on commentary. Heck even Kenny Olivier and his manager mention the old-timers in wrestling
All the best in 2022!
As a huge fan of the MLB This Artwork is Absolutely Hilarious Awesome Job Travis you're the best and hopefully the New York Mets win the world Series this Year that's wishful thinking.
The Mets signed Scherzer and a few other good players. They should be able to win 82 games this year. #lolmets
@@nocontextpoppapump they have a 33/3rd percent of winning the world Series I Absolutely Agree 👍
@@benespinosa6725 VERY wishful thinking! I do think the Mets can grab a wild card spot.
I just don't understand the appeal-
@@planexshifter Brian Last is a Huge Baseball Fan and so I'm I
For me its hogan. His name will live forever, the names jim was saying only hardcore wrestling fans know. Im no baseball fan, and i know who babe ruth was. My grandma didnt watch wrestling but knew who hulk hogan was.
Londos also drew crowds of over 30,000 regularly to baseball parks, including Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park. He was huge without television or pay per view. It was radio and newspapers.
Here's the problem: as great as Londos was in his time, he wasn't a Babe Ruth. Ruth transcended baseball, and I think that's the issue. There's an old story about WWII when an American soldier, drinking with a Brit, said "Screw King George!" The Brit thought a moment, and said "Screw Babe Ruth!" Londos was not in that category. I'd say the most likely was Gorgeous George, who not only was great in the ring but drew tremendous attention and fans.
it is clearly Hulk Hogan.
disagree, what your saying maybe true ,you can't compare then to now Jim, plus the difference is Babe Ruth was a (household name) i've watched wrestling my whole life and never heard of him and i ain't no newborn, to me based on your own criteria, it would have to be Hogan, and not to mention, which run of Hogan's on top were you referring to? because he had 2 runs, one as a babyface and as a heel. and everything you give Londos credit for Hogan did to. lol.
100 years from now it will be Hulk Hogan.They're not making any movies about Londos.
You think they're gonna make movies about Hulk Hogan? Outed racist Hulk Hogan?
@@renatoism chris hemsworth will be playing him in a biopic being made for netflix
@@renatoism I don't think, I know. They're making one now with Chris Hemsworth.
Never heard of this guy. Been watching wrestling since 1986.
Because he was born in 1894 and was famous in the 1930’s and 40’s, died in 1975.
I’m not a wrestling historian either and I wasn’t aware of him either until Corny mentioned him. I’ve been watching wrestling since 1983
@@brainhakker7133 ok troll
Too bad
Possibly an unpopular opinion here but... yeah. Babe Ruth wasn't the most technically sound player of his time by a longshot but he was the 1st player to make more money than the president of the U.S. He was also the only ball player non baseball fans would mention if asked to name a player. Under these guidelines and criteria, Hulk Hogan is the Babe Ruth of Wrestling. He's more well known than any wrestler before him and, with exception of maybe Rock and Stone Cold, maybe still is. He made more money for himself and wrestling in general than anybody else as well. His presence, like it or not, lifted the value of his whe industry. I realize purists hate this fact but there it is... a fact.
Agreed, conry just doesn't wanna put hogan over, and brain is a hogan hater so yeah go figure.
@@bdot187um just asked my wife, who knows nothing about wrestling this question... She said Hulk Hogan. Sometimes, wrestling fans need to look outside the wrestling bubble for a dose of reality. Whatever the case, Happy New Year's to you from across the universe.
i agree with Jim Cornette & Brian Last for taking Londos as the biggest wtestling star ever. the reason he is not well known today as guys like Hogan & flair is because he and his contemporaries competed in the pre tv era & there's very few footage of him. also, the present day wtestling companies do not talk highly of him and his contemporaries because he never worked for them. But Londos was & is the biggest draw in the history of wrestling. he was the biggest draw for more than 20 years. think about that.
I think it's Bruno
To me it's gotta be Lou Thesz
Bruno Sammartino for the 1960’s and 70’s he filled the largest arenas and baseball stadiums in the United States consistently. Lou Thesz for the 1940’s and 50’s he was phenomenal.
Hulk Hogan. End of discussion.
Wrong
Londos, Thez, Bruno, Andre are all contenders because they did everything the old way, sold tickets, were the mainstay, ect
Easy ..even his daddy will tell you its our boy Georgie Gulas
I would have to wonder though how deep was the pool of talent when he was no.1 during the 30s? Its easy to be no.1 when there isn't many people to fight against.
Quite possibly the most stupid comment ever. It's like the argument he was a big draw because there was nothing else going on
I wasn't a fan growing up, but since I've listened to the drive thru I'm all in with corny!
Anyone else can't wait for Jim's take in TK vs Big Swole ?
What happened?
@@DarksaberForce Big Swole said AEW's second biggest problem after not having time for people on the roster is their "diversity." She was otherwise complimentary of the company and Tony but that's what made headlines.
Tony responded on twitter by noting all the "diverse" talents that won this month (mostly non black talent though) and that him and someone else are 2 brown AEW top executives.
The part that got people riled up was him saying he left Swole's contract expire because he doesn't like how she wrestles. It was very disrespectful, especially from an executive. Some people came to Tony's defense. Others expressed their disappointment in his response. Leo Rush demanded an apology for Swole. It was a whole big thing and bad mistep by TK.
I always thought Hulk Hogan was the Pete Rose of Wrestling.
It's clearly HOOK
Obviously
I think they got the question wrong, I think the person was asking who is the all time biggest star ever (The "Babe Ruth of") and that answer whether you love him or hate him is Hulk Hogan. Ask a person who has never watched a wrestling match to name one professional wrestler, they'll probably say: "Hulk Hogan".
Since 1997 there hasn't been a bigger, better or more important name to wrestling since Austin. He wasn't the first but he took wrestling to a level it never seen and it won't see it again. It's Austin
Not far back enough.
Hulk Hogan is the Babe Ruth of pro wrestling…he made it larger then life.
And its not even close!
Gorgeous George was up there in my opinion
No perfect comparison exists but Londos is a good choice. He performed in the same era as Ruth. Bruno would be my 2nd choice for Ruth comparison. Repeatedly sold out MSG for a decade with a rabid following for better than a decade.
Technically Ruth never "drew money" in the south, major league baseball was an eastern, north the the Mason-Dixon line National and American League Ruth's era.
I would go Hogan or Andre because I am 35 yes old no idea who Landis is however I know who Babe Ruth is.
Lou Thesz, George Hackenschmidt, Frank Gotch, Ed Lewis, Jim Londos,
The Babe Ruth of wrestling cannot, by definition, be someone that most people have never heard of. Even people who hate baseball know who Babe Ruth is and identify him as a legendary figure in baseball. The only thing close is Hulk Hogan.
Well, I would have to say Hulk Hogan because, he did strike out Babe Ruth several time’s, and he thought the Babe how too hit🤣🤣🤣
I'd love to know if Corny knows anything about Cinderella Man or Max Bear or Jumpin Joe or Corn whatever his name was. Old boxing looked ridiculous. and no I don't just mean a movie lol
It’s Bruno. Plain and simple
I thought that was Johnny Cash in the doodle, at first.
I have a few videos talking about Londos
You could make an argument for Strangler Lewis too, given his popularity and influence on the sport in the 1920's. There's also a well known pic of him and Babe Ruth together, which is pretty cool to see.
What if broke it down to decades 70s Bruno 80s hulk hogan/ric flair 90s stone cold/the rock 00s John cena
hulk hogan is 100% the babe ruth of wrestling. hogan made wrestling more popular than it ever was.
Gorgeous George is credited as one of the two men who sold the USA on home TVs. THAT is bigger than anything Hogan ever did. Hogan made pro-wrestling into the equivalent of pop music.
@@RyanAcidhedzMurphy This. Wrestling never would have gotten to the point to where Hogan did what he did if not for people like George, Buddy Rogers, Lou Thesz and Verne Gagne.
Hulk is simply the greatest, end of story.
Hulk Hogan is the only answer. As much respect as I have lost for the guy over the years, he was the one to bring wrestling to the mass public. He was the first mega star, I mean he even had his own cartoon show. WrestleMania made wrestling a main stream event and he headlined 8 of the first 9 and had a major role in the one he didn't (WrestleMania 4).
@@brettatwood2797 Wrestling's been in the mass public since the 1910's. In the 1950's damn near everyone was watching it on the TV, long before hogan. Lets not attribute Hogan to things he didn't really do. No, what he did was take one company national, while the side effect was doing a whole hell of a lot of harm to the industry as a whole
Hogan has to be Babe Ruth of wrestling.. he transformed the wrestling business from local territories to a world wide global commercial phenomenon
The thing about Babe Ruth is that even non-baseball fans know who he is/was .... 100 years later! So, if a lifelong wrestling fan such as myself doesn't know who Londos is, then he can't be the Babe Ruth of wrestling. .... Londos might be the Christy Mathewson of wrestling, he ain't Babe Ruth. To me, the Babe Ruth of wrestling comes down to Andre The Giant or Hulk Hogan. Pick one.
To me it's Bruno Sammartino
Honestly, I have to go with Hulk Hogan on this one. I know people are sour with him today but let's be real. If it wasn't for Hogan, there'd be no WWE today. There'd be no SCSA, Taker, Rock, HHH, Foley, etc. Hulk Hogan was the one who put wrestling on the map. He helped transition it into the main stream. I don't think there'd be any wrestling right now if it wasn't for The Hulkster.
I would say Bruno Sammartino.
Hulk Hogan is the TRUE Babe Ruth of wrestling. Anyone who's studied pro wrestling history will know this is evidently true. Wrestling's was fairly popular in different era's, but it never a truw mainstream phenomenon. The 60s and 70s weren't great for business and had Hogan not been around, the 80s would've been the same. Wrestling would've died out in the 90s. Hogan changed that and brought a new larger than life focus to wrestling. His popularity from the Rocky films and natural charisma elevated him to international stardom which helped revive wrestling. Modern wrestling is nothing without Hogan.
In hockey, Daryl Sitler holds the record for most points in a game. 10, 6 goals, 4 assists. Because the game has changed so much over the years, that record will never be broken. The goaltenders are way to good and the overall play has improved so much that scoring that freely in a game is no longer possible. The last good chance for that record to be broken was the high-scoring 1980’s, you know, before the goalies started getting way to good.
Nobody thought Gretzky's total goal record was touchable, but Ovechkin has a chance.
Sam Gagner of all people had 8 points in a game. 10 points-though improbable to achieve wouldn’t say impossible.
The Panthers dropped 9 on the Lightning last Thursday. A team scoring 10 is not unthinkable, certainly unlikely. In that game the Panthers had a player with 5 pts. The trick is that someone would have to factor into 11 goals in a game. I just don't see that happening with how many line changes happen and how deep some of these lines are. Moat hockey records are untouchable.
Lol, had nothing to do with goalies. Everyone knows they didnt play serious defense in the 1980s. That is why all the top scorers are mostly from the 80s. All the scoring records are inflated due to that awful era/error of hockey.
For me it's Bruno and Harley Race but I know it goes way further back than that.
I won't pretend to know that much or become the rare but hilarious historian smark. But I've always heard of Bruno Sammartino being great. Maybe he's closer to a Hank Aaron but he's one of those guys you hear helped push things forward.
Andre the Giant has a posse
Brian Last and MJF are the best things to come out of long island
The Black Sox didn't throw the Series, they were working
The Babe Ruth of wrestling is Ric Flair. I know everyone is sour on him now for some shit we already knew about. But he's always gonna be the best. He had the best promos and the best matches. He wasn't the box office attraction that Hogan was. But he was a heel. His job was to sell tickets to a ass kicking. Where baby faces were the ones that sold merchandise.
You clearly didn't pay any attention to this video and you went straight to comment...lol
Not far back enough....it's Bruno sammartino
Lou Thesz or Bruno Sammartino. I say that because as a 33yr old,I see them in the same vain as Babe Ruth. I’ve seen very little of their work but im confident in their abilities because historians,casual fans and “smart marks” alike all highly regard them in terms of Legacy. One could make the argument for Hogan or eventually Austin just because if you ask anybody wrestling from adult to kid,they’re gonna say Hogan or “Stone Cold”.
They're saying history bruno and thez are in a class above hogan and Austin
It must be Hulk Hogan, surely.
Flair is Mantle, Bruno is DiMaggio, but there will probably never be a bigger star than Hogan.
Andre the Giant.
It’s obviously Hogan.
To me I think it’s Hogan cuz if somebody random thinks of wrestling they think of Hogan just like when ppl think of baseball they think of Babe Ruth
Great information
THE HATE FOR HOGAN IS REAL ON This PODCAST that i happen to love.
@Greg Bailey stop wasting your TIME. Not worth it. .... NOBODY was more over than the IMMORTAL one OTHER than the rock or stone cold... These are just plain facts.
Londos’ impact is hugely underappreciated today, as is Thesz and others. But I’d still say the answer to this is Hulk Hogan.
If this dude is the Babe Ruth if wrestling why have I never heard of him? I've been into wrestling since the 80s. Read the magazines growing up. Dad and uncle's would tell me about their favorites growing up. Never heard this guy referenced. I'm not challenging the accuracy of it, just very surprised that a guy was at the top longer than Hogan was and made it into the TV era and I never heard of him. Or at least I didn't hear enough to remember him.
Londos wished he was 5 foot 8.
George atkinsmith Was in pretty good shape
No offense to anyone but I am so sick of the all the Mount Rushmore of wrestling and now we have The Babe Ruth Of Wrestling.... wonderful!
The obvious answer is Virgil! Babe Ruth legendary appetite nothing compared to the master of meat sauce.