TIMESTAMPS: **General News** 02:41 - Dave sent a TSL valentine out to Patreon members - Johnny Weir 03:30 - Didier has resigned! (*hallelujah*) + Nathalie Pechelat 08:37 - Sonia Bianchetti 09:23 - Old school figures talk 14:30 - Proposal re: changes to programs (Phil Hersh article) 24:22 - Alina Zagitova's plans **Russian Juniors - Ladies** 25:54 - Intro + Hot Sergei Rozanov, the Eteri girl generations 28:45 - Daria Usachëva ft. discussion on extension in the legs (30:16), Paul Wylie (33:22), Daria’s music (34:33) (36:39 - nothing; Dave just does something so funny) 36:48 - Kamila Valieva 39:36 - Who are Dave & Johnathan looking forward to seeing new programs from? haha 40:07 - Non-Eteri girls 40:52 - Anna Frolova 41:02 - Ksenia Sinitsina ft. Sergei Dudakov’s technique 43:37 - Maiia Khromykh 45:24 - Sofia Samodelkina 46:07 - Adelia Petrosyan 47:05 - Rozanov’s music choices + discussion on common pieces of music 49:29 - “Coming next season to a skating rink near you from Dalilah Sappenfield…” ft. Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea + Phillip Mills 52:59 - Sofia Akatieva **Russian Juniors - Mens** 55:10 - Daniil Samsonov 58:49 - Daniil Gleichengauz ft. Bela Karolyi 1:00:37 - Andrei Mozalov 1:00:53 - Petr Gumennik **Russian Juniors - Ice Dance & Pairs** 1:02:01 - Diana Davis & Gleb Smolkin ft. Igor Shiplband 1:04:34 - Ekaterina Petushkova & Evgenii Malikov + when should referee’s stop a program? (scary fall) **Bavarian Open - Ladies** 1:07:35 - Isadora Williams 1:09:24 - Switching countries discussion ft. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Evgenia Medvedeva, Isadora Williams 1:11:06 - Marin Honda 1:12:33 - Satoko Miyahara 1:14:43 - Taylor Swift ft. Gracie Gold 1:17:04 - back to Satoko **Bavarian Open - Men** 1:17:19 - Shun Sato 1:17:50 - Stephen Gogolev 1:20:09 - Joseph Phan **Closing** 1:21:17 - Jonathan & Dave's moments of the week 1:22:24 - Dave’s actual moment of the week! Take 2: Hackensack! 1:25:00 - Hackensack's Russians: Nina Petrenko, Julia Lautowa, Natasha Popova 1:27:05 - Dave waxes lyrical about Fatima
That feeling when you're super impressed by the level of talent on display at Russian Junior Nats...and then realize that it didn't even include Veronika Zhilina. 🤯
Eteri herself needs to be doing the choreography for Kamlia and Alena. She's actually very talented but hasn't choreographed anything since Kostornayas 2017/18 programs, which is sadly also the last time Alena had choreography worthy of her skills.
Sergei Rozanov is in the same position, as Daniil was 4-5 years ago. Before Medvedeva's second senior season Gleikhengauz was only coachng and choreographing for juniors, and wasn't doing much for the "main group". So maybe in some time Sergei also will be included in the main coaching staff.
@@TheSkatingLesson Yeah, but your 4CC video made it sounds like the Russian Junior Nats (and Bavarian Open) coverage was coming a day or two later, so I figured you guys had decided to skip it. In any case, glad you guys decided to discuss it.
@@TheSkatingLesson Sorry, I must have missed that! BTW, in multiple videos now you've talked about how there should be mini-documentaries on some of these young skaters, e.g. Daniil Samsonov and Sofya Akatyeva, and coaches, e.g. Sergei Rozanov. Have you considered making them? It would be a great continuation of your Russian coverage, and I know there are English-speaking Russian fans out there with encyclopedic knowledge who would likely help you out on research. Just a thought! (Also, from a viewership standpoint, as some of these young skaters emerge to become the next 3A, your video will likely rank the highest as more and more people start looking them up.)
My "moments of the week" 1. Jonathan at 50:50 - She'd probably get in a fight in a cigarette factory. (I immediately thought of a particular co-worker). 2. Dave - 56:09 - It's like a horizontal mullet. Keep up the great work, gentlemen!! Thanks.
Jonathan said that Maia's 4S wasn't counted as rotated. In fact - it was. The jump was rotated both in her skate and in protocols. She just couldn't keep her balance on a landing and fell. Also, Daria said in her interview that she indeed works on 3A - and even hinted that we may see it ready at JWC.
I agree. I think with that approach they are not solving the actual problem. The problem is the overweighting of jumps, and specifically quad jumps. They are scored as if they are the central skill of skating, and they are not. This is destructive to the sport.
I think any changes would be welcome as long as judging remains fair. Politicking, specifically Russian politicking ruins the sport and turns off fans. I don’t even watch anymore - and I used to be a die hard skating fan :(
That is basically the crux of the problem. The PCS will always be the problem, or, the incorrect judging of PCS will always be the problem. Besides changing the entire format of the competition, maybe they should have ice dancers/musicians judging the PCS separately? Have a PCS specialist? There shouldn't be a 'judging corridor' that judges have to stick to. No matter the changes, if judges who don't understand music, performance, technique, dance, etc are just giving PCS because they don't want to go out of the corridor, what difference does it make, really?
@@LiamForeman Hm, very interesting thoughts about having ice dancers and musicians judging the PCS. If the skater's rhythm of movement is completely out of touch with the rhythm and mood of the music, this needs to be a big deduction. Even if it's the choreography that is more at fault, it is still important to give that a negative scoring, because otherwise how will anyone know what the skater is capable of if the choreography does not permit it. Sometimes i think it happens because they are trying to cram in as many elements as possible into a line of music, maybe to maximize the so called 'transitions'. But this needs to be discouraged if it is at odds with the musical connection.
Getting to this installment late, but enjoying the guilty pleasure of taking it easy today and watching my favorite skating pundits! Much love to you both and thank you for your delightfully witty updates!
I hate the idea of two programs the same length. Apart from the top tier, you could have a bunch of mediocre programs barely indistinguishable from the technical to the artistic programs.
I mean I think we’d have to see the proposed details of how the two programs would work before we could judge whether the 2 programs would be indistinguishable. Today as is the only thing that really distinguishes the programs is the length, which isn’t saying much for distinguishing the two programs (I mean why distinguish the programs by length? Why not just do 1 program, or both the same length?.. not that I’m advocating either). Yes, technically the short is a technical type program with required elements, but with how the IJS works, the free skate functions similarly as all the skaters will do the max number of jumping passes allowed, the max number in combination, 3 spins, a step sequence and choreographic sequence. And among the top all of those spins & step sequences will aim to be level 4. It may be interesting to see if/how the rules are changed in this proposed new system for the artistic free skate.. Would they drop giving a level to the spins and step sequences and treat them kind of similarly to how all the choreographic elements are treated in Dance currently? This would allow skaters to focus on making more beautiful, creative and well, artistic spins and step sequences without having to worry about hitting all they need to hit to obtain a level 4 with the focus being instead on just giving us spins and step sequences that are beautiful to look at and fit the music. And then in the technical skate spins and footwork would be given a level just as they are currently.. doing changes like this could make it interesting to me (I’ve always liked Dave’s idea he brought up with Joe Inman to make one of the spins for ladies and men singles skating an unleveled choreographic spin, judged similar to the choreographic sequence (or again the choreographic elements in the Free Dance of Ice Dance where there’s choreographic spins, lifts, twizzles, sliding moves and character step sequences which all aren’t given levels and are instead just judged on their execution).. I’m at least open to a conversation about it cause I do think the balance is tilted to the technical side currently. But like Dave and Jonathan mention here, I think a big part of the problem and the biggest thing they can do to fix the current imbalance is overhaul how the judges judge the components currently.
i kinda like the idea keeping SP and FP and then adding a third and doing a jumping thing where you show your jumps off. We saw something like it in Russia a few weeks back
@@comment6864 I don't think the quads are the deciding factor. I think skating clean is the deciding factor. It makes the program easier to watch and leaves the best impression. You can express your self all you want but you've got to deliver what you are selling
@@bonnie9131 Well that goes without saying, I agree! Another reason to hate those quads. Programs will never be consistently clean while they are the main key to success. It has become a habit that risking a fall is worth it if you have enough in your arsenal to cover the fall. I think that is ridiculous. As far as the program formats, I am perfectly fine with how they are today, and I don't see what the point is of changing them. Seems it is just a poke in the dark to 'change something' and shut everyone up instead of solving any actual problem.
Figures should come back as tests. We don't need to compete them or even do more than one tracing. But there should be tests. Practicing figures has done more for my skating than anything else.
I really don’t like the idea of shortening the length freeskate. 30-40 seconds doesn’t seem like a lot but 3:30 can leave a program feeling very unfinished or underdeveloped music-wise. Epic pieces need that extra Hal a minute or so. Music edits are going to suffer a bit.
I can’t believe anyone with good taste and experience in skating would « hate » the short program of Valieva. It was breathtaking. I showed it to ten different persons of different background in skating and they were all mesmerized. What’s wrong with Jonathan ? I usually enjoy his comments and try to learn from them but respectfully to « hate » Valieva’s SP was shocking !
Dave, I totally agree about the things you find unique and memorable and Kseniia - her choreography and artistry, in particular. However, I think that's perhaps exactly why she shouldn't go to Eteri. I fear this would be lost once she goes through the standard Eteri/Daniil "packaging." With that said, had Kseniia (and not Maia) had the benefit of Eteri's current political sway at Junior Nats, I have no doubt Kseniia would be going to the World Juniors instead of Maia, considering how superior her season was overall. So I would sympathize if Kseniia did wind up deciding to make the coaching change.
Yeah Russia has so much talent but, the top 10 all have choreography that just racks up points instead of being for their music. Kseniia is like a breath of fresh air.
@@beazy1248 Yep! And there are little things she does that are just so...weird. In a very endearing way. I hope she never loses that. I'm still bummed she got robbed of a spot on the Junior Worlds team, but it seems like she'll get two spots in the senior GP next season, so I'm looking forward to that.
@@beazy1248 ksenia is not racking up points? in the short she has a combo in the second half, just like all other girls, but in the free skate she has ALL 3 combos in the back, which none of the girls do (the majority have only 2 combos in the second half, for a security measure). her programs were designed for a maxium points gain
@@aleshenkatankov6751 Well I worded it wrong. Of course her program layouts were to maximize points, that's smart. What I meant was she had more individualized and/or creative choreography. Whereas the other girls just threw in as many level 4 elements as they can and never really hold any positions or feel their music.
Yes yes yes, I agree completely with everything said here, I was just about to leave my own comment saying the same thing. Everything that makes Kseniia great and stand out is exactly why Eteri should be the last place they send her. For the sake of skating, please don’t send every Russian girl with talent and future potential to Eteri.
@@TheSkatingLesson I can't afford to, I'm already losing too much hair from Kaori's performances since 4CC last year. I was hoping Sinitsyna she would challenge Valieva for the gold at Junior Worlds.
Honestly, Dani G is to Eteri as Gianna is to Abby Lee Miller, you can see them both rapidly aging and turning from the nice one into mini versions of Eteri/Abby over just a few years.
Have you guys seen Kamila's free program from last year? Its that ballet music Jonathon is wanting. I think it was choreographed by Sergei R., and to for me its my favorite program of hers, and shows her potential for a lighter more balletic program. I hope that we see something similar in the Olympic season, because I think she has huge potential to make a really special program with the right music and choreography. Also if you didn't know, Sinitsyna's programs are choreographed by Raf's wife, as were Kanysheva's last year. If she went to Eteri she probably would be more consistent and get that triple axel down, but we'd lose that choreo.
@@TheSkatingLesson I do agree (except the music choice this year), but there's something unique about Sinitsyna's (and Kanysheva's last year) choreo that I would miss. But if Sinitsyna got consistent enough to make teams with Kostornaia-esque choreo, I would take that compromise.
I SOOO agree about Valieva's lack of connection between the mood of the music and the rhythm of her movements. You say she is musical, but if she is, it is impossible to tell from her programs. It's like she enters this auto-pilot realm of 'ok i'm going to do my program now.. oh, there's music in the background? ok, whatever..' Enter the boppy movements, and so all the way to the end.
@@clarissagilligan4414 Right! Her body is very very fluid, there's no doubt about that. Typical body of a gymnast, loose ligaments, but after a while when that is the main thing being capitalized on and kind of poked in your face constantly, it kind of gets old and boring if it doesn't express any artistic purpose beside itself. I should note i am not crazy about gymnastics these days. Some of their contortions actually make me nauseous, because they are so grotesque. Surely we don't need that in skating?!
The separation of figure skating programs into technical and artistic is absurd. Considering that PCS is tied to reputation this idea won't change anything.
The reason you don't have classical music is that you have to have amazing innate musicality to interpret it. If you don't, then nothing makes it more obvious than skating to classical music. That's why you only see Shcherbakova having classical programs; they lift her and her ability to interpret all the nuances in the music and the actual notes makes her more impressive. I can't even see skaters with good musicality like Valieva, Sinitsyna, Usacheva, and seniors like Zagitova, Kostornaia, etc. doing something like Anna's Rondo Capriccioso from last season (choreography wasn't great but she was so expressive and never missed a note). They all need a lyrical or contemporary piece, something with a character, mood, or theme because they can't express pure music itself.
not sure how I'd feel about two programs that are the same length, but I agree with you guys that something has to change. I think raising the age eligibility would help, but I would also like to see the addition of required elements similar to ice dance-a choreographic slide, straight line step sequence, etc to add some different artistic elements to the programs. I am also tired of seeing everyone do a biellmann!!
Seeing Dave and Beyer go back and forth on the Gracie/ Taylor swift friendship had me smiling because I had to go back and think of "always hip with the cool kids" Andrea Joyce asking Gracie about Taylor and using the term "BFF" in such a way that I think Andrea single handedly changed the term's entire meaning afterward for the entire nation. Something to the effect of ,"So what do you think your BEEE- EFF- EFF Taylor Swift thought about this performance?" and you could tell that Gracie was embarrassed FOR Andrea. LOL. Ah memories.
I’ve been trying to figure out a way to make technical and component scores equal. I think the technical score should also have a top score of 100. The performances could be ranked based on current technical scores and then given a percent score, with the top score being 100%. You could not compare scores between competitions, but this would give more weight to the component score.
I don't know how it would work, but I still would prefer two judging panels judging technical and artistic on the same program. I agree that having a ceiling for components and not for jumps is a problem. In an ideal world it would be nice to allow PCS scores above 10, if they were only given for something truly exceptional. What do you think of this so called 'freestyle skating'. It looks like break dancing on hockey skates.
The most saddening moment at Russian Junior Nationals was Khudaiberdieva missing on a trip to Junior Worlds because her partner splatted in the rhythm dance. Abrupt end after such a fantastic debut in the JGP. Ah, well, next year! At Bavarian Open, Canada sent its top four junior dance teams to essentially have a second junior nationals (with two of them having missed actual junior nationals for the Youth Olympics) to determine the three for Junior Worlds. Unfortunately, one of the teams (who were arguably the most consistent of the four) had the absolute worst performance they've ever had internationally; poor Nadiia Bashynska fell twice in the free dance, and that was when they were already effectively out of it because her partner botched the midline step in the RD. An event to forget, for them. But all the same, I'm really glad for these four junior teams, because it's been a while since Canada had several really promising junior dance teams at the same time (Lajoie/Lagha basically had to carry junior dance by themselves through most of the previous quad, and looking ahead to post-Beijing, they don't really have a rival or #2).
The proposed changes sound a mishmash, both programs to the viewer basically the same. More confusion that many believe is chasing away audiences. There needs to be a simple Zayak type rule. Zayak didn't keep women from progressing technically. It kept one or two skaters who had the trick first from running away with everything. To me it's the same problem now. A few very young (juniorish) skaters with 4's and 3A's are taking every title.
The proposal is nonsensical, even in its broad outlines, for the reasons that Jonathan mentions. The technical/artistry imbalance is primarily a judging problem. I’ve said this before, but do what gymnastics has done: enlist a judging panel of non-powerhouse countries to judge. There are other things that can be done that are less drastic: Increase ladies’ PCS factor to 1.0/2.0 Limit quads per program Change the penalty for falls to 5 points. And if we’re talking about changes we’d like to see, ive long thought that Level 4s should be phased out. I’m tired of these long overwrought and tedious step sequences, as well as the spins with 7 forced position changes etc. Let’s make level 3 the max. Further, the choreo sequence should be renamed free skating sequence, and there should be GOE penalties for not using the whole ice or for doing only one or two movements. Doing one spiral or one cantilever out of several crossovers should not be enough for you to get basically free points for this sequence. It’s one of my pet peeves. Compare Yuna’s 2014 ChSeq with, say, Shoma doing a cantilever using 1/5 of the ice surface. In sum, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel to fix these issues. And having two programs of same length won’t fix anything. And there’s something to be said for having a short vs a long. They have different storytelling potential and exert different psychological pressures on the athletes that help differentiate them
How dare Jonathan look down on Tay Swift! “That woman is the smartest business woman in this industry.” - Kelly Clarkson. She took a mediocre voice combined it with PR talent and is a force!
I actually really enjoyed Sofia Samodelkina and Stephen Gogolev, Sofia has lovely interpretation and I am so excited to see her on the JGP next season and I think she is planning quad because she and her coach said that apparently without ultra c elements, there was no point in fs or something along those lines. Gogolev has had problems with the spins for a while, and his spins were so good here. He had good interpretation and choreography, apart from the lack of 4S, his jumps were solid for being out injured for so long. BUt I am worried in the sense that apparently Canada are throwing him into seniors next season
Only members of national team qualify for payment from fs federation in Russia not every figure skater. Sotnikova and Radionova do not get stipend because they haven’t made it to national team.
I'm surprised you guys like Usacheva. Kamila is very special obviously because of her flexibility, power, extensions, and skating skills. Alysa isn't the most rounded skater but she has a very charming presence and charisma like Alina. I find Daria to be quite expressive and I do think the more mature music helps her stand out, but it's just not enough; for example if expression if you strength, you have to do it like Anna Shcherbakova but she just doesn't. Unfortunately I think she's just a "place holder" as bad as that sounds. She's just there because the junior field isn't that strong this year as Sinitsyna can't get it together when it counts but she doesn't stand out. And then there's Maiia who stands out even less, 4S or not. Anna, Alexandra, and Alena have different strengths and each have their own fans for different reasons, but all 3 were much more interesting than Daria and Maiia.
I love Daria, but would enjoy her more if it didn't look like she was going to be shoved in a cage after she finishes skating by Eteri. The girl looks and seems so on edge and barely cracks a smile, anywhere. Also...that is a SEVERE music choice for anyone. But to give all that to her? Damn. That's a choice.
Jonathan is so right about Valieva's choreo for the short this year, and how fantastic it could be if she had something better to work with in that department. Pretty disheartening when you realise she's probably going to have a - admittedly very successful - career full of similar frustrations for fans. Ps I'd dearly love for any of the Russian juniors, esp ladies, to be given music with a bit of joy in it next season.
Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Zagitova, etc. etc. will never switch to another country. Russia has to release them first, and unless they've completely lost their minds, they would never do that. Their job to ensure Russia gets as many medals as possible, and there's no way in hell they'd release their former world and olympic champions even if there was a 0.00001% chance they would beat one of the girls competing for Russia.
Can zagitova represents Tatarstan, Russia just like hongkongese athletes represent Hongkong, China or Taiwanese athletes represent Chinese, Taipei ? I mean even taiwanese athletes technically represent their capital city name instead of Taiwan when they competed. Or is Tatarstan like Macau ? Because their athletes couldnt go to olympic but i m pretty sure they could go to any other international competion just like Asian Games or Worlds ?
Tatarstan is like Macau or Texas or whatever, it never was an independent country, it's just a region of Russia. besides, Zagitova is ethnically tatar, but she's not even from Tatarstan. she was born in Udmurtia. Kamila Valieva is from Tatarstan.
@@karce77 sorry but i dont know how the political environment work in russia, that s why i asked and i compared it with taiwan, hong kong and macau not texas or florida which definitely are states in the US . I thought Tatarstan was a "special region" as well, i saw that they have their own flag? And in some publications is called as republic of Tatarstan which i m pretty sure that the "stan" from Tatarstan is persian word that all central asian countries use it as well, that s how my misunderstanding happened. Besides, it s not rare for athletes to change the countries/region they represented even after they won an OGM, that s why i asked the question.
No tatarstan is not like Hong Kong or Macau or Puerto Rico. That would be like asking if someone in the US can just represent NY, or someone in England can just represent Shropshire... No! Russia is a Federation made up of dozens of republics(& oblasts, etc) Tatarstan isn't 'special'.
The type of scoring system, the length of the program , whatever change you want to bring , it will not eradicate terrible Judging! If we looked at 3 skaters with fantastic skating skills , that were also different , Asada, Kim and Kostner, all worthy of high marks in the 9.5 plus and compare them to the top 3 Russians getting the same scores , therein lies the problem and no program , regardless of its length is going to solve that. What constitutes a 9.3 or a 7.3 is clearly defined but the definitions not applied. Start there! Maybe Sandra Bezic, was right. Figure Skating could need professional adjudicating !
Maybe it'll all shake out in away that makes sense, but i still am skeptical of this division between technical and artistic. It seems the real issue is not the balance between technical and pcs, but the scoring weight of the jumps, and the quad jumps specifically. If this is the problem, then that is what should be solved. After all technical does not equal jumps in skating, or does it?? There are so many other skills that are more about skating than the jumps. They are sort of an embellishment, not the whole essence of the sport, and that is what the scoring should reflect. To me it would make more sense to simply factor out the extreme jumping into a separate section of the sport called 'ice jumping' or something and let those wunderkind jumping beans battle it out there, leaving the sport of figure skating intact. After all skiing has it's different categories, all with separate medals. It is still mind boggling to me what is so difficult about the concept of changing the weight of the scoring back to something that makes more sense, so that the central skills of skating become the main focus again. Also, many, especially in Russia, argue immediately that this is first and foremost a sport, not an art. But excuse me, this is the only sport, then, that actually takes place to music. So, either remove the music, or ensure that the skating is actually 'to the music'. And finally the whole age thing definitely has to be sorted out and should NOT be ignored. In this day and age of concerns for women's body image and all that, it is simply ridiculous how much they talk in Russian about weight strictness and all that. Of course athletes always have to stay fit, that is so self understood that it shouldn't even need mention. But when the advantage of childhood weightlessness plays SUCH a huge role in success in the sport, something is HUGELY wrong. When hitting puberty almost entirely destroys a woman's ability to compete successfully due simply to inevitable changes in body, then we have to ask do even have a sport. Tarasova constantly making derogatory comments about weight gain of specific athletes is simply disgusting. This kind of thing needs to be completely disarmed. If the changes in scoring do not do the trick, then absolutely the age needs to be raise, and secondly there need to be limits on what juniors are allowed to do in competition. If women are not physically capable of doing quads safely and consistently at any age, then they should not be a part of the sport. It is absolutely OK for the rules to be different for men and women. I think we have accumulated plenty of evidence to support this statement.
Figure skating is definitely not the only sport that takes place to music. Rhythmic gymnastics, acrobatic gymnastics, synchronized swimming? If you are interested in how the judging works there, you should check it out.
Not just ballet music, there's plenty of all sorts of classical music. There's Rachmaninoff, there's Beethoven, there's Bach. Carolina's skate to Ave Maria is simply historic. Now, please don't anyone else try it, because they are unlikely to match what she did with that. They just don't have the emotional sophistication that she does. Perhaps Maraiah could do it, but nobody else. But that aside, there is just tons of beautiful classical or semi-classical ethereal music that could be perfect for skating. But then again, after seeing Valieva's complete disconnect with the mood of the music.. what's the point
Valieva is a 13 yo girl. Carolina Kostner didn't had even a slightest hint on performing to the music at that age. but, really "what's the point". what's the point to explain this to a person who considers Mariah Bell as a pinacle of artistry.
@@aleshenkatankov6751 I don't consider Mariah a pinnacle of artistry, where did you get that? I just think she's the only one who perhaps could pull off what Carolina did with that particular piece of music. I doubt Carolina had 'no hint of performing to the music' at any age. If you're musical you're musical. With Valieva it is hard to tell what part of it is her and what part is the choreographer's lousy ideas, that was part of my point. And yes, maybe it is about age difference, and that is the reason that music choice should be age appropriate.
and yes, Kamila can make a great program to a classical music. here's an example. 8 yo Kamila Valieva performing to Saint-Saens th-cam.com/video/aKR5cdPAdh0/w-d-xo.html i actually like this more than her current programs.
Carolina was a wooden doll, she had no artistry, no jumps, no transitions, no flexibility and no spins. She was not even close to Valieva th-cam.com/video/PT7LH6WYdQw/w-d-xo.html
@@АндрейСидоров-о9ы Carolina had excellent flexibility. Just because she was not as flexible as Valieva doesn't mean she had no flexibility. Flexibility is not the most important thing in skating.
I am not necessarily against this idea of artistic program vs technical either but think I would rather just see minimum age for senior ladies raised to 17 or 18.
What’s the point of 17-18 yo females if those are the years of puberty when they all loose even tripples? I don’t wanna look at falling woman for 2 hours.
@@Veralsy the whole point of raising the age will help improve actual real good technique that will last them for ages. ladies used to sake into their mid to late 20's. now their careers end before they are 18.
@TheSkatingLesson that would be great! I feel like the age change has very little/no chance of happening but this new artistic and tech program just might. We shall see!
@@Angel-xe2tl every sport changes and makes advances. It would be such a pity to go back in time and watch obsolete, boring female skating, with all the chubby miladeies flapping their arms most of the time. In all sports athletes can start competing in seniors if in a particular year they turn 16. Look at gymnastics or sport climbing or swimming, skiing.... Also, it would not only deprive us of enjoying all the talent and beauty that some of the girls are capable of earlier than others, it is also discriminatory. Imposing the minimun age limit to 17 or 18 would be so damaging to the sport that figure skating would drift into oblivion. Nothwithstanding, figure skating would be THE ONLY sport to introduce such a rule. Last, but not least important, many experts, even TSL guys, admmitted that they saw much more mature skating in juniors than in seniors.
They are an art/skating skill that are very difficult. They may not look it, but they are exceedingly difficult and require immense control. th-cam.com/video/etxVlHKL1Xs/w-d-xo.html
Don't forget, Nathalie's hubby is an Academy Award winning actor! Well deserved for his performance in The Artist! www.reuters.com/article/us-oscars-jeandujardin-idUSTRE81Q0EJ20120228
Have you ever heard of correct pronouncation of Maia Khromykh's last name by a non-russian commentator? Well, I can understand the issue with an "Ы" sound, but why the hell both "K" instead of "H"? Really should've written her last name as "Hromyh" without those K's. They even learnt how to pronounce "ё" sound in Aliona's name, but that Kromyk just freaks me out :)
Wow, I got to 19m 26s without hearing any snide russophobia, unless it was even more subtle than usual. Have to go now, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the remainder when I get back.
This has been touched on in several earlier videos, but I'm really concerned about the long term health physical implications for all these prepubescent little girls doing those demanding quads & 3As plus all the CRAZINESS in the FS community worldwide & impact on mental health (anxiety, depression, eating disorders, etc, you all know what I mean). The number of girls who have retired/taken a break keeps rising & leaving the sport, just like those disposable coffee cups that Raf spoke of earlier this year. Yes the Russian girls are sweeping podiums, but they're all looking like one & done. We won't know the answers for several years, & a lot of damage will be done.
All that needs to be said about Danny G and the "Presidential Menopause" (that's my term for the change of life of becoming President and then after being President.)that he's going through in the past 3 years is that image of him walking past Medvedeva backstage and Eteri and the skater storm past and Medvedeva and Orser storm past and Danny G turns to look at Medvedeva so longlingly as if to say "Help me!, Save me, I feel like Melania Trump." LOL. Ah, Scheidenfreude, you love to see it.
You should see film about Alina and her career! I was always sceptic about your comments regarding Eteri and her relationship with Alina! Unfortunately, you were right! I am so much disappointed that for Eteri Alina is just material without any talent and skills(((((
1) Eteri said that about how Alina was when she just arrived in her camp. Why you consider it deragotary? Being talentless in the beginning or even dismissing the whole notion of "talent makes difference" and replacing it with "work makes difference" are very valid points that can have every right to exist. 2) Eteri isn't saint or Alina's parent or teacher or politic. She is coach. Why she should sugarcoating anybody? Well, she can - but she has every right to be as honest and strict as she wants too. You can even say that her pragmatic and dry approach is what makes her this successful. From that point of view she has every right to see her pupils as material too. You don't like it? No problem - there are lots of other coaches who can fill you up with flattery. They can choose.
I am so tired of Alina's drama, she stopped being relevant, she always played victim, gaining sympathy with her tears and her dog... now she comes across mean, fake, greedy after all those videos of her real behavior. She's over.
i've heard that Alina became the richest girl in Russia after Navka's show ,including all advertisements - Shiseido ,Puma & Sperbank ,...ok,Russians don't mind and they think she deserved it all.
TIMESTAMPS:
**General News**
02:41 - Dave sent a TSL valentine out to Patreon members - Johnny Weir
03:30 - Didier has resigned! (*hallelujah*) + Nathalie Pechelat
08:37 - Sonia Bianchetti
09:23 - Old school figures talk
14:30 - Proposal re: changes to programs (Phil Hersh article)
24:22 - Alina Zagitova's plans
**Russian Juniors - Ladies**
25:54 - Intro + Hot Sergei Rozanov, the Eteri girl generations
28:45 - Daria Usachëva ft. discussion on extension in the legs (30:16), Paul Wylie (33:22), Daria’s music (34:33)
(36:39 - nothing; Dave just does something so funny)
36:48 - Kamila Valieva
39:36 - Who are Dave & Johnathan looking forward to seeing new programs from? haha
40:07 - Non-Eteri girls
40:52 - Anna Frolova
41:02 - Ksenia Sinitsina ft. Sergei Dudakov’s technique
43:37 - Maiia Khromykh
45:24 - Sofia Samodelkina
46:07 - Adelia Petrosyan
47:05 - Rozanov’s music choices + discussion on common pieces of music
49:29 - “Coming next season to a skating rink near you from Dalilah Sappenfield…” ft. Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea + Phillip Mills
52:59 - Sofia Akatieva
**Russian Juniors - Mens**
55:10 - Daniil Samsonov
58:49 - Daniil Gleichengauz ft. Bela Karolyi
1:00:37 - Andrei Mozalov
1:00:53 - Petr Gumennik
**Russian Juniors - Ice Dance & Pairs**
1:02:01 - Diana Davis & Gleb Smolkin ft. Igor Shiplband
1:04:34 - Ekaterina Petushkova & Evgenii Malikov + when should referee’s stop a program? (scary fall)
**Bavarian Open - Ladies**
1:07:35 - Isadora Williams
1:09:24 - Switching countries discussion ft. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Evgenia Medvedeva, Isadora Williams
1:11:06 - Marin Honda
1:12:33 - Satoko Miyahara
1:14:43 - Taylor Swift ft. Gracie Gold
1:17:04 - back to Satoko
**Bavarian Open - Men**
1:17:19 - Shun Sato
1:17:50 - Stephen Gogolev
1:20:09 - Joseph Phan
**Closing**
1:21:17 - Jonathan & Dave's moments of the week
1:22:24 - Dave’s actual moment of the week! Take 2: Hackensack!
1:25:00 - Hackensack's Russians: Nina Petrenko, Julia Lautowa, Natasha Popova
1:27:05 - Dave waxes lyrical about Fatima
Thanks
Thank you! Really helps a lot.
WOW!
Claudia
Wow you r good.
Thanks
That feeling when you're super impressed by the level of talent on display at Russian Junior Nats...and then realize that it didn't even include Veronika Zhilina. 🤯
Eteri herself needs to be doing the choreography for Kamlia and Alena. She's actually very talented but hasn't choreographed anything since Kostornayas 2017/18 programs, which is sadly also the last time Alena had choreography worthy of her skills.
Sergei Rozanov is in the same position, as Daniil was 4-5 years ago. Before Medvedeva's second senior season Gleikhengauz was only coachng and choreographing for juniors, and wasn't doing much for the "main group". So maybe in some time Sergei also will be included in the main coaching staff.
Yay! I didn't think this was gonna happen anymore. Looking forward to listening. Hope you guys are having a nice holiday weekend.
We do a show every weekend?
@@TheSkatingLesson Yeah, but your 4CC video made it sounds like the Russian Junior Nats (and Bavarian Open) coverage was coming a day or two later, so I figured you guys had decided to skip it. In any case, glad you guys decided to discuss it.
Alex I replied somewhere that it would be this weekend.
@@TheSkatingLesson Sorry, I must have missed that! BTW, in multiple videos now you've talked about how there should be mini-documentaries on some of these young skaters, e.g. Daniil Samsonov and Sofya Akatyeva, and coaches, e.g. Sergei Rozanov. Have you considered making them? It would be a great continuation of your Russian coverage, and I know there are English-speaking Russian fans out there with encyclopedic knowledge who would likely help you out on research. Just a thought! (Also, from a viewership standpoint, as some of these young skaters emerge to become the next 3A, your video will likely rank the highest as more and more people start looking them up.)
Talking about Maia Khromykh, I thought her FS costume was a superb match to her taller frame. Bradie's team should take notice.
YAY! Dave your sweater has a ''El Tango de Roxanne" vibe going on, love it!
My "moments of the week"
1. Jonathan at 50:50 - She'd probably get in a fight in a cigarette factory. (I immediately thought of a particular co-worker).
2. Dave - 56:09 - It's like a horizontal mullet.
Keep up the great work, gentlemen!! Thanks.
Jonathan said that Maia's 4S wasn't counted as rotated. In fact - it was. The jump was rotated both in her skate and in protocols. She just couldn't keep her balance on a landing and fell.
Also, Daria said in her interview that she indeed works on 3A - and even hinted that we may see it ready at JWC.
I think that Artistic program idea won't help - the marking of PCS is often bullshit so the change wouldn't make any difference
I agree. I think with that approach they are not solving the actual problem. The problem is the overweighting of jumps, and specifically quad jumps. They are scored as if they are the central skill of skating, and they are not. This is destructive to the sport.
I think any changes would be welcome as long as judging remains fair. Politicking, specifically Russian politicking ruins the sport and turns off fans. I don’t even watch anymore - and I used to be a die hard skating fan :(
Colette Robichaud
Who cares of your attention to the FS? Do you think the universe is spinning around you?
That is basically the crux of the problem. The PCS will always be the problem, or, the incorrect judging of PCS will always be the problem. Besides changing the entire format of the competition, maybe they should have ice dancers/musicians judging the PCS separately? Have a PCS specialist? There shouldn't be a 'judging corridor' that judges have to stick to. No matter the changes, if judges who don't understand music, performance, technique, dance, etc are just giving PCS because they don't want to go out of the corridor, what difference does it make, really?
@@LiamForeman Hm, very interesting thoughts about having ice dancers and musicians judging the PCS. If the skater's rhythm of movement is completely out of touch with the rhythm and mood of the music, this needs to be a big deduction. Even if it's the choreography that is more at fault, it is still important to give that a negative scoring, because otherwise how will anyone know what the skater is capable of if the choreography does not permit it. Sometimes i think it happens because they are trying to cram in as many elements as possible into a line of music, maybe to maximize the so called 'transitions'. But this needs to be discouraged if it is at odds with the musical connection.
Getting to this installment late, but enjoying the guilty pleasure of taking it easy today and watching my favorite skating pundits! Much love to you both and thank you for your delightfully witty updates!
46:30 I agree!! I really loved Petrosian's energy, she did remind me of Medvedeva -- with better skating skills and jumping technique
Baby Zhenya. Her energy is infectious. I hope she brings that Regina Spektor program with her to juniors next season.
Loving Dave’s sweater this week! And Jonathan always SAF as always
Thank you!
I hate the idea of two programs the same length. Apart from the top tier, you could have a bunch of mediocre programs barely indistinguishable from the technical to the artistic programs.
I mean I think we’d have to see the proposed details of how the two programs would work before we could judge whether the 2 programs would be indistinguishable. Today as is the only thing that really distinguishes the programs is the length, which isn’t saying much for distinguishing the two programs (I mean why distinguish the programs by length? Why not just do 1 program, or both the same length?.. not that I’m advocating either). Yes, technically the short is a technical type program with required elements, but with how the IJS works, the free skate functions similarly as all the skaters will do the max number of jumping passes allowed, the max number in combination, 3 spins, a step sequence and choreographic sequence. And among the top all of those spins & step sequences will aim to be level 4.
It may be interesting to see if/how the rules are changed in this proposed new system for the artistic free skate.. Would they drop giving a level to the spins and step sequences and treat them kind of similarly to how all the choreographic elements are treated in Dance currently? This would allow skaters to focus on making more beautiful, creative and well, artistic spins and step sequences without having to worry about hitting all they need to hit to obtain a level 4 with the focus being instead on just giving us spins and step sequences that are beautiful to look at and fit the music. And then in the technical skate spins and footwork would be given a level just as they are currently.. doing changes like this could make it interesting to me (I’ve always liked Dave’s idea he brought up with Joe Inman to make one of the spins for ladies and men singles skating an unleveled choreographic spin, judged similar to the choreographic sequence (or again the choreographic elements in the Free Dance of Ice Dance where there’s choreographic spins, lifts, twizzles, sliding moves and character step sequences which all aren’t given levels and are instead just judged on their execution).. I’m at least open to a conversation about it cause I do think the balance is tilted to the technical side currently. But like Dave and Jonathan mention here, I think a big part of the problem and the biggest thing they can do to fix the current imbalance is overhaul how the judges judge the components currently.
I don't see anything wrong with the programs at all, i just want the quad jumps to not be the main deciding factor in who wins.
i kinda like the idea keeping SP and FP and then adding a third and doing a jumping thing where you show your jumps off. We saw something like it in Russia a few weeks back
@@comment6864 I don't think the quads are the deciding factor. I think skating clean is the deciding factor. It makes the program easier to watch and leaves the best impression. You can express your self all you want but you've got to deliver what you are selling
@@bonnie9131 Well that goes without saying, I agree! Another reason to hate those quads. Programs will never be consistently clean while they are the main key to success. It has become a habit that risking a fall is worth it if you have enough in your arsenal to cover the fall. I think that is ridiculous. As far as the program formats, I am perfectly fine with how they are today, and I don't see what the point is of changing them. Seems it is just a poke in the dark to 'change something' and shut everyone up instead of solving any actual problem.
Figures should come back as tests. We don't need to compete them or even do more than one tracing. But there should be tests. Practicing figures has done more for my skating than anything else.
They still do tests at novice level comps in Russia as well. Which is probably why they have so many great young skaters.
I really don’t like the idea of shortening the length freeskate. 30-40 seconds doesn’t seem like a lot but 3:30 can leave a program feeling very unfinished or underdeveloped music-wise. Epic pieces need that extra Hal a minute or so. Music edits are going to suffer a bit.
Damn you guys I have to get up early! It was very "educational" watching Russian Jrs and Ted's commentary!
it's here! been waiting for this...thanks a lot!
Ann Fotlyan ❤️❤️❤️
I can’t believe anyone with good taste and experience in skating would « hate » the short program of Valieva. It was breathtaking. I showed it to ten different persons of different background in skating and they were all mesmerized. What’s wrong with Jonathan ? I usually enjoy his comments and try to learn from them but respectfully to « hate » Valieva’s SP was shocking !
Don't you know TSL guys have nor good taste nor experience?
You guys are so funny and so addictive. Love you guys 🤣😍👍👏
Dave, I totally agree about the things you find unique and memorable and Kseniia - her choreography and artistry, in particular. However, I think that's perhaps exactly why she shouldn't go to Eteri. I fear this would be lost once she goes through the standard Eteri/Daniil "packaging."
With that said, had Kseniia (and not Maia) had the benefit of Eteri's current political sway at Junior Nats, I have no doubt Kseniia would be going to the World Juniors instead of Maia, considering how superior her season was overall. So I would sympathize if Kseniia did wind up deciding to make the coaching change.
Yeah Russia has so much talent but, the top 10 all have choreography that just racks up points instead of being for their music. Kseniia is like a breath of fresh air.
@@beazy1248 Yep! And there are little things she does that are just so...weird. In a very endearing way. I hope she never loses that. I'm still bummed she got robbed of a spot on the Junior Worlds team, but it seems like she'll get two spots in the senior GP next season, so I'm looking forward to that.
@@beazy1248 ksenia is not racking up points? in the short she has a combo in the second half, just like all other girls, but in the free skate she has ALL 3 combos in the back, which none of the girls do (the majority have only 2 combos in the second half, for a security measure). her programs were designed for a maxium points gain
@@aleshenkatankov6751 Well I worded it wrong. Of course her program layouts were to maximize points, that's smart. What I meant was she had more individualized and/or creative choreography. Whereas the other girls just threw in as many level 4 elements as they can and never really hold any positions or feel their music.
Yes yes yes, I agree completely with everything said here, I was just about to leave my own comment saying the same thing. Everything that makes Kseniia great and stand out is exactly why Eteri should be the last place they send her. For the sake of skating, please don’t send every Russian girl with talent and future potential to Eteri.
When Kseniia came off the ice after her SP, Svetlana's grimace soured milk in a one mile radius.
Erik Hai Did you also grimace on the inside after that mistake?
@@TheSkatingLesson I can't afford to, I'm already losing too much hair from Kaori's performances since 4CC last year.
I was hoping Sinitsyna she would challenge Valieva for the gold at Junior Worlds.
Cute sweater Dave. I missed where it's from (if you mentioned it). Holding out for the Gabby Daleman story.
Yes! When will we get the Gabby info?
My husband walking by and overhearing Taylor Swift/Gracie Gold 😆 he was with Jonathan on that. Thanks for the new video guys! ⛸️⛸️
A Singing Wife 😂😂😂😂
Honestly, Dani G is to Eteri as Gianna is to Abby Lee Miller, you can see them both rapidly aging and turning from the nice one into mini versions of Eteri/Abby over just a few years.
SeabassFishbrains Gianna is also selling Arbonne. Like Nancy Kerrigan.
Have you guys seen Kamila's free program from last year? Its that ballet music Jonathon is wanting. I think it was choreographed by Sergei R., and to for me its my favorite program of hers, and shows her potential for a lighter more balletic program. I hope that we see something similar in the Olympic season, because I think she has huge potential to make a really special program with the right music and choreography. Also if you didn't know, Sinitsyna's programs are choreographed by Raf's wife, as were Kanysheva's last year. If she went to Eteri she probably would be more consistent and get that triple axel down, but we'd lose that choreo.
Kamila's free was great last year.
I must say, I do like Kostornaia's choreography (mostly).
@@TheSkatingLesson I do agree (except the music choice this year), but there's something unique about Sinitsyna's (and Kanysheva's last year) choreo that I would miss. But if Sinitsyna got consistent enough to make teams with Kostornaia-esque choreo, I would take that compromise.
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening guys😂 Great work as usual.🇦🇺🇦🇺
I SOOO agree about Valieva's lack of connection between the mood of the music and the rhythm of her movements. You say she is musical, but if she is, it is impossible to tell from her programs. It's like she enters this auto-pilot realm of 'ok i'm going to do my program now.. oh, there's music in the background? ok, whatever..' Enter the boppy movements, and so all the way to the end.
Agree. Like an automaton. Beautiful movements but somehow it comes across as sort of cold indifference.
Your comment is ridiculous.
@@clarissagilligan4414 Right! Her body is very very fluid, there's no doubt about that. Typical body of a gymnast, loose ligaments, but after a while when that is the main thing being capitalized on and kind of poked in your face constantly, it kind of gets old and boring if it doesn't express any artistic purpose beside itself. I should note i am not crazy about gymnastics these days. Some of their contortions actually make me nauseous, because they are so grotesque. Surely we don't need that in skating?!
Always so delightful ☺️♥️
The separation of figure skating programs into technical and artistic is absurd. Considering that PCS is tied to reputation this idea won't change anything.
The reason you don't have classical music is that you have to have amazing innate musicality to interpret it. If you don't, then nothing makes it more obvious than skating to classical music. That's why you only see Shcherbakova having classical programs; they lift her and her ability to interpret all the nuances in the music and the actual notes makes her more impressive. I can't even see skaters with good musicality like Valieva, Sinitsyna, Usacheva, and seniors like Zagitova, Kostornaia, etc. doing something like Anna's Rondo Capriccioso from last season (choreography wasn't great but she was so expressive and never missed a note). They all need a lyrical or contemporary piece, something with a character, mood, or theme because they can't express pure music itself.
Dave your sweater is very becoming. Well done.
Guys, your sound level on this video is fluctuating too much. You should fix this next time.
not sure how I'd feel about two programs that are the same length, but I agree with you guys that something has to change. I think raising the age eligibility would help, but I would also like to see the addition of required elements similar to ice dance-a choreographic slide, straight line step sequence, etc to add some different artistic elements to the programs. I am also tired of seeing everyone do a biellmann!!
My moment of the week was the cute tension between Dave and Jonathan during the Taylor Swift/Gracie Gold discussion in this video 😁
MJ DeCoteau 😘😘😘
Daniel is the author of all programs.
Isn't it Rozanov who returned Kostornaya's 3A?
Seeing Dave and Beyer go back and forth on the Gracie/ Taylor swift friendship had me smiling because I had to go back and think of "always hip with the cool kids" Andrea Joyce asking Gracie about Taylor and using the term "BFF" in such a way that I think Andrea single handedly changed the term's entire meaning afterward for the entire nation. Something to the effect of ,"So what do you think your BEEE- EFF- EFF Taylor Swift thought about this performance?" and you could tell that Gracie was embarrassed FOR Andrea. LOL. Ah memories.
Im gonna get my TSL fix in. Whew. Thought this was gonna be a gap week since none of the big competitions are going on (sorry Bavaria). So excited!
Enjoy!
I’ve been trying to figure out a way to make technical and component scores equal. I think the technical score should also have a top score of 100. The performances could be ranked based on current technical scores and then given a percent score, with the top score being 100%. You could not compare scores between competitions, but this would give more weight to the component score.
My moment of the week Dave mentioning Regina Spektor. Two parts of my life coming together
I don't know how it would work, but I still would prefer two judging panels judging technical and artistic on the same program.
I agree that having a ceiling for components and not for jumps is a problem. In an ideal world it would be nice to allow PCS scores above 10, if they were only given for something truly exceptional.
What do you think of this so called 'freestyle skating'. It looks like break dancing on hockey skates.
The most saddening moment at Russian Junior Nationals was Khudaiberdieva missing on a trip to Junior Worlds because her partner splatted in the rhythm dance. Abrupt end after such a fantastic debut in the JGP. Ah, well, next year!
At Bavarian Open, Canada sent its top four junior dance teams to essentially have a second junior nationals (with two of them having missed actual junior nationals for the Youth Olympics) to determine the three for Junior Worlds. Unfortunately, one of the teams (who were arguably the most consistent of the four) had the absolute worst performance they've ever had internationally; poor Nadiia Bashynska fell twice in the free dance, and that was when they were already effectively out of it because her partner botched the midline step in the RD. An event to forget, for them. But all the same, I'm really glad for these four junior teams, because it's been a while since Canada had several really promising junior dance teams at the same time (Lajoie/Lagha basically had to carry junior dance by themselves through most of the previous quad, and looking ahead to post-Beijing, they don't really have a rival or #2).
What a surprise!
Lol I skate to Amelie in a red dress. In the film she wears both green and red so I think either would be right.
and exactly to this music th-cam.com/video/kPf6yFdFH3E/w-d-xo.html
The proposed changes sound a mishmash, both programs to the viewer basically the same. More confusion that many believe is chasing away audiences. There needs to be a simple Zayak type rule. Zayak didn't keep women from progressing technically. It kept one or two skaters who had the trick first from running away with everything. To me it's the same problem now. A few very young (juniorish) skaters with 4's and 3A's are taking every title.
Loved Dave pointing out the Carmen situation...he is right !!! Tarah is so much tackier than KMT 🤣🤣
Yeay! 😍😍😍😍😍😍
First thing I thought with "transitional period" was menopause, too, Johnathan!!
The proposal is nonsensical, even in its broad outlines, for the reasons that Jonathan mentions. The technical/artistry imbalance is primarily a judging problem.
I’ve said this before, but do what gymnastics has done: enlist a judging panel of non-powerhouse countries to judge.
There are other things that can be done that are less drastic:
Increase ladies’ PCS factor to 1.0/2.0
Limit quads per program
Change the penalty for falls to 5 points.
And if we’re talking about changes we’d like to see, ive long thought that Level 4s should be phased out. I’m tired of these long overwrought and tedious step sequences, as well as the spins with 7 forced position changes etc. Let’s make level 3 the max.
Further, the choreo sequence should be renamed free skating sequence, and there should be GOE penalties for not using the whole ice or for doing only one or two movements. Doing one spiral or one cantilever out of several crossovers should not be enough for you to get basically free points for this sequence. It’s one of my pet peeves. Compare Yuna’s 2014 ChSeq with, say, Shoma doing a cantilever using 1/5 of the ice surface.
In sum, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel to fix these issues. And having two programs of same length won’t fix anything. And there’s something to be said for having a short vs a long. They have different storytelling potential and exert different psychological pressures on the athletes that help differentiate them
you guys are so down on Danil I do not mind his work
*Warning Controversial Opinion ahead*, Kseniia Sinitsyna has the best SP out of all the Russian girls this year.
Bellabell it is a greet program!
It's one of the best SP this season overall
But Kostornaya...
@@Veralsy Is fabulous and has earned that world record. Honestly, You could argue for either but, I like Kseniia's music a tad more.
@@Veralsy technically, yes, but it's the last year's sp as well
How dare Jonathan look down on Tay Swift! “That woman is the smartest business woman in this industry.” - Kelly Clarkson. She took a mediocre voice combined it with PR talent and is a force!
Evan Perilstein yes Evan! She has a unique writing style for sure! Agreed! She’s a smart cookie
I actually really enjoyed Sofia Samodelkina and Stephen Gogolev, Sofia has lovely interpretation and I am so excited to see her on the JGP next season and I think she is planning quad because she and her coach said that apparently without ultra c elements, there was no point in fs or something along those lines. Gogolev has had problems with the spins for a while, and his spins were so good here. He had good interpretation and choreography, apart from the lack of 4S, his jumps were solid for being out injured for so long. BUt I am worried in the sense that apparently Canada are throwing him into seniors next season
Yeah Sofia is my favourite and actually, she's the one who skated to classical pieces in the free with Sviridov's Romance and Masquerade Waltz.
I really hope there will be new changes to skating. It’s so uninteresting that I just watched Stacey Pengsen’s free skate to homeward bound.
Little Napoleon has been Waterlooed! Vive La France!
Jason Kanzler 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Only members of national team qualify for payment from fs federation in Russia not every figure skater. Sotnikova and Radionova do not get stipend because they haven’t made it to national team.
I'm surprised you guys like Usacheva. Kamila is very special obviously because of her flexibility, power, extensions, and skating skills. Alysa isn't the most rounded skater but she has a very charming presence and charisma like Alina. I find Daria to be quite expressive and I do think the more mature music helps her stand out, but it's just not enough; for example if expression if you strength, you have to do it like Anna Shcherbakova but she just doesn't. Unfortunately I think she's just a "place holder" as bad as that sounds. She's just there because the junior field isn't that strong this year as Sinitsyna can't get it together when it counts but she doesn't stand out. And then there's Maiia who stands out even less, 4S or not. Anna, Alexandra, and Alena have different strengths and each have their own fans for different reasons, but all 3 were much more interesting than Daria and Maiia.
Cool
Omg I miss the neurotic karolyi arm waiving! "And staaaaayyyyy!"
Do they talk about the junior ice dance at the bavarian open at all?
We did not this week.
I love Daria, but would enjoy her more if it didn't look like she was going to be shoved in a cage after she finishes skating by Eteri. The girl looks and seems so on edge and barely cracks a smile, anywhere. Also...that is a SEVERE music choice for anyone. But to give all that to her? Damn. That's a choice.
I'm parsing the comments fruitlessly so far: anybody knows who the Fatima girl is? we need that info!
Shelf Life such a mystery!
Jonathan is so right about Valieva's choreo for the short this year, and how fantastic it could be if she had something better to work with in that department. Pretty disheartening when you realise she's probably going to have a - admittedly very successful - career full of similar frustrations for fans.
Ps I'd dearly love for any of the Russian juniors, esp ladies, to be given music with a bit of joy in it next season.
Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Zagitova, etc. etc. will never switch to another country. Russia has to release them first, and unless they've completely lost their minds, they would never do that. Their job to ensure Russia gets as many medals as possible, and there's no way in hell they'd release their former world and olympic champions even if there was a 0.00001% chance they would beat one of the girls competing for Russia.
Can zagitova represents Tatarstan, Russia just like hongkongese athletes represent Hongkong, China or Taiwanese athletes represent Chinese, Taipei ? I mean even taiwanese athletes technically represent their capital city name instead of Taiwan when they competed. Or is Tatarstan like Macau ? Because their athletes couldnt go to olympic but i m pretty sure they could go to any other international competion just like Asian Games or Worlds ?
Tatarstan is like Macau or Texas or whatever, it never was an independent country, it's just a region of Russia. besides, Zagitova is ethnically tatar, but she's not even from Tatarstan. she was born in Udmurtia. Kamila Valieva is from Tatarstan.
Lol you should suggest Texas or Florida athletes to represent their states separated from US then too :)
@@karce77 sorry but i dont know how the political environment work in russia, that s why i asked and i compared it with taiwan, hong kong and macau not texas or florida which definitely are states in the US . I thought Tatarstan was a "special region" as well, i saw that they have their own flag? And in some publications is called as republic of Tatarstan which i m pretty sure that the "stan" from Tatarstan is persian word that all central asian countries use it as well, that s how my misunderstanding happened. Besides, it s not rare for athletes to change the countries/region they represented even after they won an OGM, that s why i asked the question.
No tatarstan is not like Hong Kong or Macau or Puerto Rico.
That would be like asking if someone in the US can just represent NY, or someone in England can just represent Shropshire... No!
Russia is a Federation made up of dozens of republics(& oblasts, etc) Tatarstan isn't 'special'.
Dave, lovin that hot sweater!
Thank you!
If anything needs to be addressed is Ice dancing and the glass ceiling
The type of scoring system, the length of the program , whatever change you want to bring , it will not eradicate terrible Judging! If we looked at 3 skaters with fantastic skating skills , that were also different , Asada, Kim and Kostner, all worthy of high marks in the 9.5 plus and compare them to the top 3 Russians getting the same scores , therein lies the problem and no program , regardless of its length is going to solve that. What constitutes a 9.3 or a 7.3 is clearly defined but the definitions not applied. Start there! Maybe Sandra Bezic, was right. Figure Skating could need professional adjudicating !
HEALTHY!! hahah my mom along with all the other skating moms would call girls, especially post-pubescent ones, "healthy" girls
Grisgris * this is such a thing!!!
TheSkatingLesson anything jiggly is “healthy” 😂
Definitely haven’t posted a Sandy Woolsey interview on Patreon! She was good mid Olympics!
I will see where I have it.
Maybe it'll all shake out in away that makes sense, but i still am skeptical of this division between technical and artistic. It seems the real issue is not the balance between technical and pcs, but the scoring weight of the jumps, and the quad jumps specifically. If this is the problem, then that is what should be solved. After all technical does not equal jumps in skating, or does it?? There are so many other skills that are more about skating than the jumps. They are sort of an embellishment, not the whole essence of the sport, and that is what the scoring should reflect. To me it would make more sense to simply factor out the extreme jumping into a separate section of the sport called 'ice jumping' or something and let those wunderkind jumping beans battle it out there, leaving the sport of figure skating intact. After all skiing has it's different categories, all with separate medals. It is still mind boggling to me what is so difficult about the concept of changing the weight of the scoring back to something that makes more sense, so that the central skills of skating become the main focus again. Also, many, especially in Russia, argue immediately that this is first and foremost a sport, not an art. But excuse me, this is the only sport, then, that actually takes place to music. So, either remove the music, or ensure that the skating is actually 'to the music'. And finally the whole age thing definitely has to be sorted out and should NOT be ignored. In this day and age of concerns for women's body image and all that, it is simply ridiculous how much they talk in Russian about weight strictness and all that. Of course athletes always have to stay fit, that is so self understood that it shouldn't even need mention. But when the advantage of childhood weightlessness plays SUCH a huge role in success in the sport, something is HUGELY wrong. When hitting puberty almost entirely destroys a woman's ability to compete successfully due simply to inevitable changes in body, then we have to ask do even have a sport. Tarasova constantly making derogatory comments about weight gain of specific athletes is simply disgusting. This kind of thing needs to be completely disarmed. If the changes in scoring do not do the trick, then absolutely the age needs to be raise, and secondly there need to be limits on what juniors are allowed to do in competition. If women are not physically capable of doing quads safely and consistently at any age, then they should not be a part of the sport. It is absolutely OK for the rules to be different for men and women. I think we have accumulated plenty of evidence to support this statement.
Figure skating is definitely not the only sport that takes place to music. Rhythmic gymnastics, acrobatic gymnastics, synchronized swimming? If you are interested in how the judging works there, you should check it out.
Not just ballet music, there's plenty of all sorts of classical music. There's Rachmaninoff, there's Beethoven, there's Bach. Carolina's skate to Ave Maria is simply historic. Now, please don't anyone else try it, because they are unlikely to match what she did with that. They just don't have the emotional sophistication that she does. Perhaps Maraiah could do it, but nobody else. But that aside, there is just tons of beautiful classical or semi-classical ethereal music that could be perfect for skating. But then again, after seeing Valieva's complete disconnect with the mood of the music.. what's the point
Valieva is a 13 yo girl. Carolina Kostner didn't had even a slightest hint on performing to the music at that age. but, really "what's the point". what's the point to explain this to a person who considers Mariah Bell as a pinacle of artistry.
@@aleshenkatankov6751 I don't consider Mariah a pinnacle of artistry, where did you get that? I just think she's the only one who perhaps could pull off what Carolina did with that particular piece of music. I doubt Carolina had 'no hint of performing to the music' at any age. If you're musical you're musical. With Valieva it is hard to tell what part of it is her and what part is the choreographer's lousy ideas, that was part of my point. And yes, maybe it is about age difference, and that is the reason that music choice should be age appropriate.
and yes, Kamila can make a great program to a classical music. here's an example. 8 yo Kamila Valieva performing to Saint-Saens
th-cam.com/video/aKR5cdPAdh0/w-d-xo.html
i actually like this more than her current programs.
Carolina was a wooden doll, she had no artistry, no jumps, no transitions, no flexibility and no spins. She was not even close to Valieva th-cam.com/video/PT7LH6WYdQw/w-d-xo.html
@@АндрейСидоров-о9ы Carolina had excellent flexibility. Just because she was not as flexible as Valieva doesn't mean she had no flexibility. Flexibility is not the most important thing in skating.
I am not necessarily against this idea of artistic program vs technical either but think I would rather just see minimum age for senior ladies raised to 17 or 18.
Why not both?
What’s the point of 17-18 yo females if those are the years of puberty when they all loose even tripples? I don’t wanna look at falling woman for 2 hours.
@@Veralsy the whole point of raising the age will help improve actual real good technique that will last them for ages. ladies used to sake into their mid to late 20's. now their careers end before they are 18.
@TheSkatingLesson that would be great! I feel like the age change has very little/no chance of happening but this new artistic and tech program just might. We shall see!
@@Angel-xe2tl every sport changes and makes advances. It would be such a pity to go back in time and watch obsolete, boring female skating, with all the chubby miladeies flapping their arms most of the time. In all sports athletes can start competing in seniors if in a particular year they turn 16. Look at gymnastics or sport climbing or swimming, skiing.... Also, it would not only deprive us of enjoying all the talent and beauty that some of the girls are capable of earlier than others, it is also discriminatory. Imposing the minimun age limit to 17 or 18 would be so damaging to the sport that figure skating would drift into oblivion. Nothwithstanding, figure skating would be THE ONLY sport to introduce such a rule. Last, but not least important, many experts, even TSL guys, admmitted that they saw much more mature skating in juniors than in seniors.
Figures were like the technical skates?? Yeah I just not sure what that era was like.
They are an art/skating skill that are very difficult. They may not look it, but they are exceedingly difficult and require immense control. th-cam.com/video/etxVlHKL1Xs/w-d-xo.html
@@TheSkatingLesson Thanks so much!
Don't forget, Nathalie's hubby is an Academy Award winning actor! Well deserved for his performance in The Artist!
www.reuters.com/article/us-oscars-jeandujardin-idUSTRE81Q0EJ20120228
Correct
Love seeing your cute faces 🤍
Nathalie will a be a great President !!!
I'm here to guard the correct pronunciation of names!😠
Have you ever heard of correct pronouncation of Maia Khromykh's last name by a non-russian commentator? Well, I can understand the issue with an "Ы" sound, but why the hell both "K" instead of "H"? Really should've written her last name as "Hromyh" without those K's. They even learnt how to pronounce "ё" sound in Aliona's name, but that Kromyk just freaks me out :)
@@alexjest2 Maya Comic, as Ted Barton says)))
Денис Василич do people criticize Ted for mispronouncing Eteri’s last name? Russians love their pronunciation, but he may get a pass?
@@TheSkatingLesson We love Ted, he can do anything! Even though he is Canadian😉
Денис Василич i love Russia more than Ted. My love just includes more humor.
Wow, I got to 19m 26s without hearing any snide russophobia, unless it was even more subtle than usual. Have to go now, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the remainder when I get back.
This has been touched on in several earlier videos, but I'm really concerned about the long term health physical implications for all these prepubescent little girls doing those demanding quads & 3As plus all the CRAZINESS in the FS community worldwide & impact on mental health (anxiety, depression, eating disorders, etc, you all know what I mean). The number of girls who have retired/taken a break keeps rising & leaving the sport, just like those disposable coffee cups that Raf spoke of earlier this year. Yes the Russian girls are sweeping podiums, but they're all looking like one & done. We won't know the answers for several years, & a lot of damage will be done.
All that needs to be said about Danny G and the "Presidential Menopause" (that's my term for the change of life of becoming President and then after being President.)that he's going through in the past 3 years is that image of him walking past Medvedeva backstage and Eteri and the skater storm past and Medvedeva and Orser storm past and Danny G turns to look at Medvedeva so longlingly as if to say "Help me!, Save me, I feel like Melania Trump." LOL. Ah, Scheidenfreude, you love to see it.
The commentator for 4CC is AWEFUL!
Ted is ridiculous - he actually said "hang on I need to check my script" lol
You should see film about Alina and her career! I was always sceptic about your comments regarding Eteri and her relationship with Alina! Unfortunately, you were right! I am so much disappointed that for Eteri Alina is just material without any talent and skills(((((
Oh man.. Why the hell you only understand what you hear..
@@efimkrivov we are all human beings) we are all, make mistakes (((
@@nisarakh7667 Look the way Eteri comforts for example Sasha after fs on Russian nationals.
1) Eteri said that about how Alina was when she just arrived in her camp. Why you consider it deragotary? Being talentless in the beginning or even dismissing the whole notion of "talent makes difference" and replacing it with "work makes difference" are very valid points that can have every right to exist.
2) Eteri isn't saint or Alina's parent or teacher or politic. She is coach. Why she should sugarcoating anybody? Well, she can - but she has every right to be as honest and strict as she wants too. You can even say that her pragmatic and dry approach is what makes her this successful. From that point of view she has every right to see her pupils as material too. You don't like it? No problem - there are lots of other coaches who can fill you up with flattery. They can choose.
mr Mishin said that he didn't recognize talent in Liza ,also -when he saw her at the beginning of her career .This is common for every coach ,i think.
I am so tired of Alina's drama, she stopped being relevant, she always played victim, gaining sympathy with her tears and her dog... now she comes across mean, fake, greedy after all those videos of her real behavior. She's over.
i've heard that Alina became the richest girl in Russia after Navka's show ,including all advertisements - Shiseido ,Puma & Sperbank ,...ok,Russians don't mind and they think she deserved it all.
@@brankakovacevic6174 good for her, she better save that money and invest it well because she's only 17 and I don't see more gold medals in her future
@@natashakovac9584 ,of course ,although i enjoyed watching her "Cleopatra" program ,and still miss it.