When Horses Go From Good To Bad And How To Help Them
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2017
- #horses #horsetraining #groundwork
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In this video I talk about what to do when your horse reverts backwards from good behavior to something that isn't good or safe. This is almost always due to fear and should be dealt with carefully and with patience and care. Dealing with situations like this in frustration or anger which generally comes from equal fear, can send the horse backwards even further and delay the change you're hoping for.
In this example I work with the horse to just get him haltered. It's the initial haltering that he has trouble with, once haltered he leads great and comes along well. So, I talk and walk through everything I did as this video is completely uncut from the original shot of it. This way you can see the steps I would take to get a horse to come to me and be with me before haltering.
Hopefully it helps somebody else, thanks for watching!
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Sir I haven’t seen a video that you’ve done that’s not fantastic I really mean that. I love your style.
Jean Clayton thank you very very much
One of the best tips that i keep in mind was given to me by my farrier: horse training is never a solid line going up a chart. It’s filled with ups and downs.. although in the end you are going “up”, making progress. And nothing like a horse to teach you patience and make you think!
Excellent tip and great thing to remember over time when working with horses. Lots of people lose track of that and can either get discouraged or even give up!
When I was in high school we had 9 horses, and I knew nothing. I raised an Arabian from 4 months until he grew up to be a stallion. He was kept in a separate enclosure, and when I came to see him after opening the gate carrying a bucket of grain often, he would come barreling toward me., stopping just in time. I don’t remember ever moving my feet or being afraid. Probably should have been, but I in my naïveté just thought he was happy to see me lol. He was probably trying to show me he was high horse. Wish I had had these tools you are sharing.
Now that would be a sight to see. Amazing. Wouldn't you kill to have video of that now to look at?
Stable Horse Training Yes but in those days beta tapes were new lol
Hahahaha... I get it. I remember those times too
@@kkdoc7864 beta?! That was super fancy here in the states!! It didnt really catch on here...i do remember tho! Funny things our memories. Thanks for sharing
I love how you allow the horse to leave when he is uncomfortable and then try again gradually. Lovely way to respect the animal and not break his spirit.
Thank you :) there are very few times where I might more make a horse stay. For the most part though it's just a matter of starting over and maybe getting smaller steps done as they aren't prepared yet to do what I'm asking.
Waiting for the relaxation and focus can take so long sometimes but is so worth it . It takes the time it takes .It's nice you see the calming signals and you are helping him find his relaxation. When they go into the sympathetic nervous system it's nice to see them go into the peresympathetic or find his homeostasis level. Brilliant work taking the time it takes.😊
That's true. It can sometimes take enough time to really really stretch my patience, but yes, when it gets done and I can walk away successful, it's addictive it's so nice. Thank you very much for the compliments :)
You have a wonderful calming voice, beautiful surroundings too, such care with the fencing.
Thank you very much!
Good for you for recognizing that it’s something your doing and not blaming the horse for being “bad” your not a bad horseman you actually care to learn from past things that didn’t work
Thanks!
Good video. No such thing as a bad horse. A horse is just a horse being a horse due to the way they experience their world. Mostly the way they experience the people around them. Any change is due to people.
I agree. Thank you for the compliments!
I had two American Warm Bloods, they were brothers born 3 days apart, same father different mothers, and one of them became deathly scared of walking in the woods. He would not go in any trail that went between trees and into the woods. And if I tried to walk him into the woods he would just freak out and even rare up. So I fenced off a new area that was about 1-1/2 acres, and half of it was pretty thick woods with just trails running through it, and I put their favorite food on the other side of the wooded area so that on his own time he would have to go through the woods in order to get to it. and I put him and his brother in there because I knew his brother wouldn't have any issue going to it, and the only way he could get some of that sweet feed was for him to overcome his fear and go into the trees. And then he would have to stand in the woods in order to eat it. And it took him like 4 hours before he just couldn't stand it anymore and he finally worked up the courage and made it to that food. So I left him in there for the rest of the week and only fed him in the trees. So it worked great because he was no longer scared of the woods.
But I still wonder if that was the right way to go about it. My entire thought process was what would be easiest on him, and I figured allowing him to work it out on his own was the best way. And that he did.
In my opinion, you did the absolute best approach. Proof is in the results. Nothing wrong with letting a horse figure things out with a buddy while monitoring. A great story, thank you for sharing it.
@@StableHorseTraining, Thank you for the response. I had tried many other things that just didn't work, and I didn't want him to think/feel I was trying to force him to do scary things.
I find it cute in a way that such a large and tough animal can be such a scaredy cat. lol.
I hope you have a wonderful rest of the week, and an even better weekend.
Thank you very much, you too!
You have a really calm and compassionate approach. This chestnut guy is so tense standing, you can see every muscle is contracted, bless him. Thanks for these videos they are so instructive.
Thank you very much for the compliments. Yes Mac is an incredibly sensitive horse, all of my success with him and in fact all horses is to be calm and understanding about how scared or stressed they are.
@@StableHorseTraining Yes that is the way to go with all animals. Compassion, patience and a desire to do what is right for them. We are caretakers on this earth and that is what most people forget.
I love that sentiment ❤️
Beautiful landscape. I can tell that you appreciate the beauty of nature.
Thank you. Yes I do. I love nature and have wanted a property like this for pretty much my whole life. I grew up playing in forests all day and it really speaks to me still. Now I get to make my own park! So, that's cool
You are so kind and patient with him. You are truly a horse whisperer. I watched a video about chiropractor working on horses. It's called Life adjusted. I found it very informative.
Thank you very much!
Oh Graeme I've written a long long text but the send button disappeared! How have I done that. It took me 10 minutes to write. Maybe that's a good thing Graeme as I'm such a pain!! I will try to find it. It's just that I haven't commented for a while and don't want you to think I've left. Such a people pleaser.
My kindest regards to everyone. Just to say Graeme I'm always thankful to what you put out there. It takes time and effort so I'm grateful always. Ok going to try and find my first text. It has to be somewhere lol. My kindest regards to all xxx
no worries Patricia, I don't think you're a pain at all! Thank you very much for being so thankful! You're very welcome :)
Perfect lesson for me to watch today. Bear’s behavior is very much like this. First week I did a lot of off and on Halter and neck rope . Never getting to where He got upset . But now , he walks up to me and then walks away every time now .So I feel like I am back to the first week . I don’t get far with the Halter . Maybe it’s my lack of confidence. Today He acted nervous about his surroundings . I felt like something happened before I got there that bothered him . He would get a mouth full of Alfalfa’ and run back to his corner where He stands and lays down most of the day . However, He has done that since the beginning . But today it was much more of a NERVOUS run back to a safe place with a mouth full of Food behavior. He does not show food aggression. And Bear is willing to back off when I think he may be too anxious about getting to His food .You explaining and showing Us how to end like we started, Is priceless information for me. I guess I felt a bit discouraged this week because It seemed like I am going backward with His trust in me . I did sit down under His trees until He was relaxed and ready to go to sleep. Didn’t try anything else with Him today . No halter practice. I will keep doing what you showed in this video. Thank you Graeme and Jen , you are a treasure to both Gary and I and Bear 💜🐴💜💜
Hi, I noticed an Orb hovering around at the 9.40 mark. Maybe he was sensing this ? Great video and wonderful handling skills. You are so kind and patient.
Thank you :) I appreciate the compliments. Always working on being more patient all the time.
What is that orb thing, then?
A bug walking on the lens but some people believe different things and that's ok
Good lesson for today 🥰
Thank you I have a mini who acts just like this . He was abused and he takes a lot lots and lots of patients . It has took 3 yrs now I can walk up to him hug on him but he hates changing haulers .
That's excellent! Yes, it takes time and like all humans that have had a rough time here and there, it's easier to fall backwards a bit than stay going forwards. Lots of time and care is required :)
Really interesting video, thanks.
You're welcome!
Great video as always.
Thank you Jean :) I'm glad it was a good one.
Good video as always!
Thanks Susan!
Wow. That seems so disconcerting for him to be so stand offish Most people wouldn’t have the understanding to start over and be so patient. I can see where a lack of patience could lead to a catastrophe , eventually for both the horse and owner. Bless his heart-he isn’t trying to be difficult-he is just being honest with his feelings. He doesn’t know how to be anything else -he’s a horse. Aren’t we all entitled to be honest as long as we aren’t disrespectful or harmful to others ?
Yes, honesty is the best
Your one trainer I'm really starting to like. I think the same way. I see a You Tube Binge watch in my near future.
Thanks! It's nice to have same minded people hanging around :)
I wonder if he just doesn't enjoy having his head touched... Like maybe he will tolerate it, but he would rather you just get on with it. My guys always seem to like it better when I go up to their shoulder as opposed to straight up to their face. Maybe it is partly just an impatience thing and he is tense and wants to go. I wouldn't wait for him to come back to me, I would drive him a bit(even if it is just at the walk and with the gate closed) and get him to hook on a bit. It might help him get a bit of energy and tension out and keep him focused on you. Either way I think your patience is lovely and you've probably already worked it out fine... This makes me feel like I should go out and halter my guys in the paddock just for a little extra practice😀. Thanks for the motivation!
He had a different feel to it than not liking it, as if there was genuine worry or fear. It's true though, this video is old and he is long past this and it was not a long term thing at all. The oddity of it that I wanted people to understand is that he wasn't like this before. If you were to have known/seen him, it would have been such an odd thing as he did great and was very soft to the touch, which he is now. So, as you said, a bit of patience and reminders and he's pretty good about it all. Thank you for the thoughts and advice though, I appreciate it and it's great advice too. Going up the shoulder and/or along the withers etc is a great approach and is something I still do for him to this day. It's a great reminder.
I have a horse and he is good with the other horses but when it comes to humans he is very standoffish. I have had him for three years and he is still head shy and seems to have an etchisketch brain and if you miss one day with him, he’s forgotten everything. Recently I broke my foot so others have been feeding my horses and as you can imagine he’s just gone wild. I can’t catch him now and even at feed time when the others are down near the house fussing with their bins, he stands away and if approached he just stays just out of reach. I leave because I’m not about to even consider chasing him or even walking him down.
This horse you are working with here is so similar to my horse and it’s so frustrating because life here with me is pretty special for horses, as my other horses will confirm. So frustrating!
That sure is tough to be around, I feel your pain about that as those are the types of horses that tend to arrive here. Not all of course, some are amazing with people. It's hard too if you've broken your foot. We talked about this on the live chat today th-cam.com/video/3lN3qiP5H2Y/w-d-xo.html and discussed how to deal with such a problem. I'll see if I can extract just that part as the whole stream is almost 2 hours long... anyways, it takes time and lots of patience for sure.
awesome read of this horse:D the body language was so expressive,subbed a few days ago.love what you do.dont see that many horse sites showing the non bit/whip/spurs philosophy of horse care and training.
in fact you only the second one,"Think like a Horse" being the other and i have found oh and ofc Chuck Mintzlaff {he has a permanent herd of about 5-6 horses all of whom he has a truly amazing relationship with} thanks for sharing your expertise!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed this video and I appreciate the compliments :) There are quite a few channels out there now that don't use bits and spurs, I think you may have just not found them yet :) Takes time sometimes as you have to filter through so many out there. I've never heard of Chuck but I'm aware of think like a horse.
@@StableHorseTraining hi again .you and rick gore could be reading from the same script tbh.you dovetail so much.now for chuck mintzlaff check out this hoof trimming vid th-cam.com/video/LChYBb1ABgI/w-d-xo.html would love to see your read of it
Rick and I definitely don't read from the same script and I'd be embarrassed to be lumped into his rhetoric, cyber bullying, verbal abuse and public shaming of people that have no idea they are being publicly shamed by somebody that no longer, and hasn't for a long time, done anything with horses other than stand around with them insulting everybody... sorry, I am not a fan and always set the bar of what channels to watch by whether or not I would let my 9 year old watch and learn from as her moral standards and behaviours towards other can show disdain, disrespect and discouragement, or empathy, care and encouragement. As for Chuck's videos, they are so low quality it's hard to tell what he's doing and I only saw one video of him trimming and it was too far away to see anything at all. If you know of one that shows any detail at all, I'd be happy to briefly check it out.
Aye not a fan of Ricks ranting myself. But I look past it to the horse knowledge that he imparts and has done for many years .His style was not always as it is or became. I hear you on the mintzlaff videos (we call that "potatoe vision" as if it were filmed thru a slice of potatoe :D ) not many of his videos get any better I don't think his site is all that active anymore.but if you can put up with the quality of the videos he does do some great stuff with that small herd. And that enuff outta me :P keep on doing what you're doin!
@@chairmanchips I agree that he has a lot of knowledge which I agree with quite a bit. If we were talk about hoof trimming, I'd say Rick could use some more education in the matter and be more precise with his balance medial and lateral and heels. That said I haven't watched his videos in a while so maybe he's picked up a few more tips.
Great video
Thank you very much 🙂
Interesting video sir :)
Thanks!
Hello Graeme yes it's difficult to know why he is doing this when all other times he was fine. But in the end he seemed to accept the halter. But you are kind and patient with him which is helping him. Amazing how we can tell alot just with his ears. Just wondering Graeme what his name is? So thank you for the video Graeme. I will be watching to see his progress. Many thanks Graeme.
Kindest regards Patricia
His name is Macaroni. The girls named him....
But then he, I believe, watching him is more of a serious for us, anywhere it a good horse, but more cautious his personality we all have personalities
Was he maybe having some teeth issues and that made him shy away from haltering? Honest question so please no hate ppl.
That's a great suggestion. It can definitely happen as their jaw changes position when they put their head down. In my case I have probably the best dentist/vet in the area and he regularly checks on my horses for any problems. His last check came up good and he did have some recent touch ups on his teeth with it. So, in such a case, I don't believe it's the problem but I wouldn't completely rule it out. The solution unless my vet tells me different is the same though, I do my best to address the behavior and let him know he's safe. Thanks for commenting! :)
Hi, your fencing looks very interesting. Getting ready to make a pasture space. Is it 5 levels of rope that is forming your fence? thx
It's called Bayco. It's a stretchy plastic fencing that doesn't cause cuts or damage to the horses but doesn't break. I believe that each strand can hold close to 1000 pounds and so 5 strands are good. Installing is the same as barbed wire but it's just much safer. Lasts forever and installs really easy. We did a lot of research before choosing our fencing and this was the most economical and safe fencing we could come up with. You could probably get by with 3 strands, definitely 4 strands but they recommend 5 and that's what we did. Some installations include a hot wire on top to teach them not to lean on it to get anything on the other side, but we've never had a top wire break. The bottom one tends to get caught on their feet if they put their foot through, but it doesn't cut them if they pull and most of the time they just stop and wait for help to get out. It's rare though.
Stable Horse Training Very cool! Where did you buy it from and how does it compare to the cost of wood?
Bought it from a local supplier over on Vancouver Island. It's much cheaper than wood both initially and long term as the horses don't chew it and it doesn't rot nor need maintenance. At least half the cost.
Stable Horse Training I’m searching online and can only find Bayco electric cords and reels. Would you be so kind as to share your suppliers phone #, website or contact info?
@@lizbethdiehl318 www.fencingguy.ca/bayco-finish-line-product-info is just one of quite a few. Check for "Bayco Finish Line"
Clicker train him. Train him to target. It makes them turn their head away and respectful of food willingly like a happy game. Shawna Karrasch trained for sea world then switched to horses and neuro science proves food is the best way to fix any problem... the horses LOVE it and just like when your boss takes you out to dinner, it makes the meeting go better... if that makes sense... because the pleasure and relax center is triggered by food and forms a new positive association. Pressure and release works BUT neuro science prove it triggers the worry fear side of the brain, even if the results are the same they are doing it by shutting down and giving in.. better to go with the pleasure side of their brain *:D
+Darlene DeMayo thank you very much for your thoughts! Very much appreciated. I have way too many of my own to fit into a comment here, I'll probably do a video on this topic soon I think. There is definitely a time and place for rewarding with food and I too believe it triggers a part of the brain that makes them feel good. Lots of situations and environments and circumstances though and I'd be hesitant to consider anything a silver bullet. It's a tool in the toolbox :)
I know right. Like a hand of sweet feed makes the world go round. Then next its pawing at the gate. lol
Could he be skin sensitive to the knots in the halter up near his poll? Just wondering.
Had you tried him in a nylon halter?
It kinda looked like he was not scared of the halter - more he disliked it - maybe because it is uncomfortable.
Could he have some fly bites that made the skin around his poll extra sensitive?
Nice video on the releasing of pressure and getting that return response.
Thank you for the compliments :)
That's an excellent suggestion and it's possible he was sensitive to the halter, he's long past this problem now but those are things I thought about too. Sensitivity due to bites are real as well, it's hard to say definitively but I'm doubtful of that. The thing is that we don't have nylon halters here, so it wouldn't be an option to put one on him. It perhaps looked like he didn't like it, but it was definitely fear that had him moving away. Not liking something would have him moving towards me more or maybe just his head. I have my suspicions as to why he got like that, but either way with some practice he's back to the way he was and we haven't changed the halter used, how we put it on or how we lead at all.
Stable Horse Training
Glad he is over it now. : )
+Carole Davis thank you! me too... I was a bit worried for the poor guy for a bit there.
You sir are amazing! God put you in the right place in life.. My uncle had a Palomino and he would let me walk it , ride it and generally take care of the horse when I would go out to see him.
I was always afraid to go behind the horse because of being kicked. When you walked behind macaroni like that, I have a fear like a horse that something will happen. it’s always about being kicked from behind and my uncle always told me never go behind a horse. Is this true ? or is it only if a horse really knows who you are should you go behind it and touch it’s rump and its tail? What’s your take on this please ? Thank you you for sharing your knowledge and expertise
Thank you very kindly. For going behind horses I try to be cautious when giving advice as there are many that would disagree. For the most part I think it's fine to walk behind a horse, I'm more worried about the tail whipping me than getting kicked... That said though, it is always nicer for them to give them some light tactile feedback by keeping a hand on when you go around. I did a video a while back on the subject actually with Sean Davies and we talked about going around the back of a mustang and how he does it. Essentially before you walk to the other side, you extend your hand out to the other side and then walk around. It allows the horse to understand your intent better.
@@StableHorseTraining Thank you ! I appreciate that! I hope to find that video you mentioned .. I am new to your Chanel down here in Florida and really enjoy watching your videos of coffee in the morning .. they are very informative and I learn a lot from you .
I’ll be watching ....
Cheers!
Brian
I'll take a look around later to see if I can find it for you
Hi Brian, here's that video I was talking about: th-cam.com/video/-0MxVXWr69Q/w-d-xo.html
@@StableHorseTraining great! Wow you are a rock star! I am going to watch it right now ... thank you !
any thoughts on why hes shaking his head so often? maybe a physical condition is occurring? some neurological issue or ear isaue? just a thought as I'm not familiar yet w all your videos. always good to cover all bases and with horses mental and physical things are always occurring.
Psychological, perhaps a bit of tension. He gets passed it with quiet work and really relaxes.
Just curious, how was he shooed away during feeding?
I usually just need to put my hand up and move it towards him in a "backup" motion.
I know this is an older video.. but maybe he hurt himself? Like rolling or slinging his head? I watch Ed Crothers videos about this. Maybe check him out??
Yes, this is an older one for sure and he gets past his worry quite quickly and releases. He sometimes still gets out of sorts a bit, but he doesn't get a lot of work so he mostly just does his own thing and tends to just need those friendly reminders it's all ok. Overall though, you're correct, he's a tense kind of guy so that may be an issue.
Just seen the other person's post mentioning his teeth. Wondering if it could be that Graeme?
He's regularly floated, so while I wouldn't rule it out, I don't think it's the problem. He's a tense horse sometimes and just needs to shake it off. Lots more time and practice needed with all kinds of things.
How can you tell if he’s having pain or not in the area you are trying to touch?
A lot of horses will pin their ears, bite or try to kick if something hurts. If it's subtle then they may just shy away.
Stable Horse Training Good point! We have a horse that is regressing and now trying to bite instead of being saddled or even just bridled but was doing fine with it. I get the sense he’s just being testy and defiant because the only thing that’s changed is 1) he had been pastured for almost a year and 2) a potential adopter is starting to work with him now...but was initially good for both of us but that only lasted maybe a few days at best. Any thoughts, suggestions or additional video links on the subject?
Patience for sure. If the horse doesn't try to bite at any other time then I'd check to see if there is any pain for the saddle fit. If the horse tries to bite at other times then I'd get that worked out through groundwork, and may also test for pain as well
Graeme, he's a real Beauty,that Guy.kat
Horse is like “ who is he talking to?!?”
I'm positive they all think that of me....
Oh that is so cute. I'm having a little laugh at his name. Just thinking Graeme could he be a bit unwell. It's hard to know why he's not himself. I do hope he get back to his old self.
Kindest regards.
He did and is far better. All good, thanks for the kind wishes though :)
This was really interesting. I always wonder, though, if a horse really doesn't want to be haltered, why doesn't he just to the other end of the paddock or bite you or bare his teeth, kick you, etc. and really tell you what he thinks. It's like the horse is playing games with you. Do you have any explanation for this? Thanks.
That's a great question. Some horses do that and they're dangerous, so you deal with that problem first. The ones that are just afraid will try to leave, what they do at that point is up to the human. No horse is playing games, ever. It's been scientifically proven that they don't have the ability to think beyond the next moment in time kind of thing. So they essentially live in the moment. This is a good topic for a video, I've written it down and will try to answer this in the next couple of days.
@@StableHorseTraining Great! I look forward to getting some answers! Stay safe, be well, and always keep some happiness in your back pocket! Especially right now!
@@bonblue4993 Thank you! You too of course :)
doyou think there is some soreness somewre
there wasn't. This is a really old video
You work well but I'd like to hear more of an analysis and a critic of the way he's been handled. No horse just goes like this over night - he's associated humans with something bad.
Why? What difference would it make to what I do? How would I know and what is the purpose of being critical of other humans?
@@StableHorseTraining its always the humans faut never the horse. We all make mistakes its learning from them that makes us better. If the person carries on the same way with this horse (sorry its obvious he's been handled unfairly) no amount of training will "sort" him.
@Gemma Davies I'm unsure of what you're trying to say, can you clarify? Your words feel a bit... hmm... sort of "beating around the bush" kind of thing. I still don't understand your obsession with being critical of handling in his past which leads to your next sentence of "he'll never get past his problem when he's treated wrongly". Which leads to a thought process that goes down a path of blame of the current situation, which is with me. Or perhaps you're suggesting that if I don't know how he got this way then I'll never be able to fix it? In such a case nobody would ever be able to fix any horse as it's incredibly rare to know how a horse got "messed up". Anyways, it's super hard to understand what you mean, but I'll let you clarify yourself clearly if you'd like.
@@StableHorseTraining what I ment is that horses learn all the time and are in the present so even if a trainer gets him to where he's fine with being handled he will soon learn to differenciate between people. So the trainer is ok but your not and the behaviour will continue with you as from the horse's point of view you've been unfair with him. When I help people with horses I say to them correct the behaviour rather than predicting it. Let the horse make a mistake then correct with the addage in mind "as little as possible and as much as necessary" ie ask gently then be firmer until you get the answer your looking for. It changes everything and I love the way it makes horses respectful.
I don't think you've seen very many videos here. If you take a moment to look around some I expect you'll learn a lot. I still don't understand your original request to be more critical of how he was handled (as if I had any idea anyways) nor do I quite understand what you're getting at in the end outside of that it appears you have targeted me as the fault for this horse. This has been an odd conversation to say the least as you seem to be one of those trainers that shows up to teach and criticize instead of learn. I wish you the best all the same! Your words about what to do with horses is quite close to what I teach her and I expect it works well for you. Good luck! 😊
Is this Roni?
Yes
Lol, the gate is open. Of course he heads your way.
It's great you noticed. I don't know if anybody else did but you're the first to comment on it, great observation. I think it's also worth noting that by creating an extra draw for him, I can setup the exercise to succeed better as both myself and the gate can create a draw but hopefully I have both draw and drive enough that he won't run through me to get out. It all worked too. So, good observation! I don't think I made it clear why I did that, but thanks for the opportunity to circle back to that point.
@@StableHorseTraining ganado vacuno
I didn't know horses got tight mouths! Like humans!
Is he hurting you're some kind of pain
It's possible he was stiff in the pole, we did a bit of work on him in that area and he's been pretty good about everything. Good observation!
100th like
Thank you!
No problem! :D
Looks like he is feeling ignored with all the other horses in training. Maybe a change of stall.
A change of stall due to feeling ignored? How did you get that?
let alone that this video is years old