Consciousness, god, belief, and evidence
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2023
- Vimoh Live is a bi-weekly call-in show where I talk with callers about religion, culture, and atheism.
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*1:08:10*
Sameer needs to understand that in science-parlance, a 'theory' is NOT merely speculation that can be dismissed.
A theory is a (former) hypothesis that has gained credibility because of very strong evidence that supports the (former) hypothesis.
1:12:29
The Islamic apologist inside Sameer finally reveals itself.
Sameer, a hundred years from now, the boiling point of water will still be 100°C.
@s_anandsurya
"Sameer, a hundred years from now, the boiling point of water will still be 100°C."
==========================================
1:08:10
Sameer needs to understand that in science-parlance, a 'theory' is NOT merely speculation that can be dismissed.
A theory is a (former) hypothesis that has gained credibility because of very strong evidence that supports the (former) hypothesis.
*1:12:29*
*The ISLAMIC APOLOGIST inside SAMEER finally reveals itself.*
Mohanty with the Dillahunty look.
We should support Mohanty till he’s able bring Dillahunty on his live cast !! That’ll be juicy .
The caller Deeps should read some Hindu religious textbooks,to come out of his good God rut...
By the way vimoh explained him very well
No. What I conveyed was for a sincere seeker it is not a choice of having God or not having God.
As long as I exist in Comparative Reality i.e. you and me, the brain can only relate in form. That is where god comes in.
How can the Brain see the truth that I am the Experience ? That I am not an experiencer who is different from that which is experienced i.e. I am the stage on which all drama takes place (from birth to death), because everything is happening in the Brain.
If the brain grasps that fact, that insight frees me completely from this Comparative Reality and I get to glimpse the totality of my self.
I realize I am both the worshipper and the worshiped. Devotion is needed for you to understand you are Consciousness i.e. the screen. It gives you that required sensitivity.
@@deepankulandaisami9544
"No. What I conveyed was for a sincere seeker it is not [...] ou are Consciousness i.e. the screen. It gives you that required sensitivity."
========================================
*That is a LOT of fluff that ultimately says hardly any thing substantial.*
"Supporting Eastern Traditions" does NOT mean that you are supporting a philosophy/way-of-living/thought-process that has foundations that pass the test of rational, verifiable scrutiny.
'Spiritualism' is merely a euphemism for religion-based (and by so-called 'dharmic' beliefs, beliefs in the existence of (supposedly) supernatural phenomena, and so on.
*P.S.: are you of TAMILIAN origin? I ask this on the basis of your User Name (kulandaisami).*
@Sourabh Jogalekar, You'd be intrigued by "emergence". It does not require a field. It just requires fundamental particles that interact with each other "emerging" into complex things like chairs, tables, and humans who perceive being conscious. Consciousness may very well just be an illusion - study on Dan Dennett, Sean Carroll, and mainstream scientists.
Emergence is compatible with physics (and science since other fields like biology break down to physics) as long as each of the steps from the fundamental thing leading to the complex thing can be explained by known physics, which is the case with atoms combining to make a chair. But in the case of brain states creating consciousness, there is an explanatory gap which can't be filled by current physics.
As for illusionism, it reduces everything we take to be real to illusion, because the 'illusory' sense perceptions are the epistemic root of all knowledge about the world.
@@sarath3827 I agree with everything you said exactly. The explanatory gap between conscious-being and "consciousness-field" cannot be filled in without evidence is my point. What Sourabh calls evidence for consciousness field is not analogous to electron fields or electro-magnetic fields or higgs fields. It may be true, but it's not yet demonstrated to be true, as these physical fields have been.
All scientific explanations based on sensory perception is illusion...
Sir how I ask my questions I am new here so please tell
Great stream Vimoh, you really look like a monk with a t shirt. Good health to you.
Isn't communication an example of vibrations created by consciousness?
Last year I went to Jaisalmer for a wedding. I interacted with approximately 50 people there and at least 10 people asked me what my cast is. It's just disgusting
Vimoh has been taken in by the JAWAN fever
Sameer - Suppose I write a book that says, "Alcohol is bad. Don't eat pork, and Batman is God."
Why won't you accept my book, but you accept yours?
@thepurplebox380
"Sameer - Suppose I write a book that says, "Alcohol [...] but you accept yours?
===================================
Yep, you have got the point.
*1:12:29*
*The ISLAMIC APOLOGIST inside SAMEER finally reveals itself.*
The problem with thinking that you are the god you are worshipping is that it can lead to egotism and you don't want people with whom you've entrusted authority to hold that power over others. A humble world does not contain such extreme expressions of the ego.
Atheist gonna ask for evidence of your statement bro 💀
Intially it appears like egotism because it is actually working on one's own ego. It is like a self-surgery. The god you relate to is actually your own self surfacing, by which you can see your personality, your insecurities, your deep desires,..
If you are sincere and get to the core of the self, you will realise that others are also the same very self you are. From that comes empathy, compassion.
We need to make ordinary human beings understand that they are no longer ordinary !
Of course, if the person stops midway, it will lead to exclusivity and egotism. So it depends on the person's will persistence.
@@deepankulandaisami9544 isn't the issue of inequality stemming from people in the privileged groups thinking that they are exceptional and that the ones without privilege somehow deserve their status? I don't understand how such a rhetoric can help that.
@@s_anandsurya yes people from privileged group thinking they are special is exclusivity, which is egotism.
If those privileged peoples can have that empathy i.e. understand that unpriviledged are actually themselves victims of inequality, that very perception makes them act to end that inequality.
What I describe i.e. working on the self is for giving sanity to human beings. Yes every human being is special !(not more special than others)
@@deepankulandaisami9544 but isn't your last statement paradoxical, how can human beings be special and also not special? Also, are human beings any more special than animals and plants?
31:16 did you just say bald instead of bold 😂😂 it’s even more funny if it was intentional
Please refer Double Slit Experiment which suggests that world needs an observer/ Subject ( Atman) or an Measuring Device......to exist in meaningful state.
No it doesn't. The double slit experiment has other explanations
@@vimohlive
What other explanation.. They have no scientific explanation so they simply said that the wave function collapsed due to measurement device , which is called Copenhagen interpretation... From The name it is evident that it is an interpretation... Which opens up fresh questions such as who has placed a Measurement device to measure this Universe...They Have no answers and r trying their best to avoid that it might be due to observation of the photons which ultimately Causing collapsed wave function.. As per Advait Vedanta, Sankhya & Pantanjali Yoga philosophies it is not God who is essential for this universe to exist but it is the Observer/ Subject/ Atman/ Sat Chit Anand ( Conciousnes) is essential or fundamental to Universe...
No it only suggest that light has a dual nature. Whatever you are saying about observer or aatman is misinformation.
Savarnn thiyeechu.
Careful, you'll hae too many of those Naruto figurines if you let him finish the jutsu.
Missed the stream😅
Mr Jogalekar used science to build a base and then went off on supposition alone. If he had said this in front of a neuroscientist and a physicist, he would have been corrected immediately, like DC was, by a physicist in a gathering when he tried to spout off about quantum consciousness or something.
When scientists observe some unusual phenomenon, they try to investigate it, to measure and define it and present it to their peers for review.
Nothing wrong with discussing your ideas but better to do it where you will actually get scientific feedback, if it is a scientific phenomenon that you want to duscuss. It's not a good sign when a non-STEM guy can smell a rat in your theories with just logical thinking.
kabhi kabhi lagta hai apunich...
If you are an agnostic athiest is not believing in a religion better than not believing in it
What I'm saying is pascal wager just a bit modified
If you don't know hell or heaven exists its better to believe in one religion than to not believe in any at all, because that will increase your chances of being in heaven
How is this modified? What's the definition of heaven? Why are you so sure people want to be in heaven?
@@lukadoncic9355 im sure no body wants to be in hell and burn in fire forever
I'm saying that if you are agnostic that believing in any major religion has more chances for you to not get in hell rather than not believing in any
@@Anxh007
"im sure no body wants to be in hell [...] get in hell rather than not believing in any"
=================================
NOPE; it is quite the CONTRARY.
If you have not worshipped any god during your lifetime-because there is no verifiable evidence that any god exists-but then it turns out that there is a god, that god is more likely to excuse you (because you bowed to NO god).
BUT If you have worshipped the wrong god during your lifetime, then the real god is more likely to be more angry at you, than if you had been an agnostic atheist during your life on the Earth.
@@Anxh007bro, but that would mean I'm faking it to make it to the heaven, wouldn't god know I'm faking it so that i can get into heaven? Does god care that i truly believe in it and not faking it?
And if god is okay with me faking the belief isn't it saying that god just wants me to bend to his orders? Do i really want to worship that kind of god??
@@jayeshmange2952 that's the thing you can't fake yourself into believing, therefore what I am saying is if someone is theist he has less probability of facing hell no matter whichever religion it is, as compred to an athiest
Welcome to Rajasthan Vrushabh 😅, It's very commen here to ask about caste before name and it's disgusting.
Yes, it’s really disgusting. And everywhere I go I see Limbu mirchi. I questioned the medical shop guys, why you sell medicines and still hang limbu-mirchi, he replied “hame bhi to buri Najar lag sakti hai”. I think there are very less social revolutions or revolutionaries debunking the superstitious things(to my knowledge) around these regions. If there were previously they would had been threatened by different socially powerful religious groups like Karni Sena around here.The groups like “andhshraddha Nirmulan samiti” are very common in Maharashtra. I guess average Dalit lives with more dignity and respect in Maharashtra than states like Rajasthan Haryana and UP.
Sourabh Jogalekar presented one of the best thought discussed on this channel in regards to science. 🙌
Oh bald vimoh
But why?
DKBOSE
I couldn't make my point in totality, and saying that I will like rupert sheldrik, is a bit offensive to me, i absolutely don't like woo woo like that, however, Vimoh is asking for "evidence" and he himself does not know what that evidence should constitute of!
Since Vimoh keeps on asking for "evidence", the burden lies on him to define hat evidence means in case of consciousness for him to accept it as scientifically valid evidence.
And neither has he "eliminated " the possibility that the source of consciousness could be from outside, like unlike scientists like Willian Rongtgen eliminated while discovering X-rays... So calling panpsychism as "woo-woo" or "shit" is definitely less scientific than Rontgen.
If there was a real scientist in the room, they would be open to the possibility that as long as we have not eliminated the possibility that the source could be outside, the pansychism remains as scientific as consciousness being emergent.
if not, i will invite Vimoh to disprove/ eliminate "external" as source of consciousness..
he never calls all pervading fields as woo-woo and offends quantum physicists by calling them woo-woo , why should he do it to someone who is open to panpsychism?
You cannot disprove monistic pansychism nor diestiest god neither solipsism
Falsifiability is like the gold standard in science, right? Well, when we apply that idea to panpsychism, things start to unravel. Panpsychism says that everything, even tiny particles, has some form of consciousness. But here's the hitch: there's no clear way to test or prove this. In science, we need to be able to check things through experiments or observations, but with panpsychism, we can't do that. So, it's like trying to prove something that's unprovable. Without any real evidence or a way to test it, panpsychism is more like a philosophical idea than a scientific theory, making us question whether it's really telling us something about how consciousness works in the universe. Vimoh dealt with you in a very respectful and reasonable manner.
@@harry2a2a2define evidence
@@Anxh007it's not about disproving, it's eliminating the source of a particular phenomenon, either external or internal...
Or a combination of 2..
@@harry2a2a2science makes predictions based on already established facts and theories
..
What I'm talking about is investigating the source of consciousness , which comes before any predictions...
Say you are William rontgen investigating X rays for the first time, what would you tell someone if they ask you give me predictions?