well, someone has to be the worst, and i'll be somewhat pissed if that "worst" is NOT rogue, warlock or hunter, and instead happens to be shaman, druid, paladin or warrior. people were asking for shaman and pala tanks for classic+, not effin warlocks and rogues wtf.
@@ZugzugZugzugsoni mostly agree since I'm going shaman tank but people have always wanted warlock tanks because there is a fight in AQ where you need a warlock to tank and it's always been that way so I've heard people talk about how they enjoyed that part of AQ the most and would love to be a demo lock tank. The rogue thing not so much, I'd prefer if they made the tank talents for rogue more of a pirate/swashbuckler with high threat abilities able to tank for small group stuff or maybe be a handy OT in dungeons when the main tank is struggling or something. So like more of a support tank but not a true tank. Thematically that would be pretty cool but I just really like pirates 😂
I feel like they were in super deep into development when making SoD and over the last 6 months they saw the want for a classic +. My tin foil hat idea is that the lvl cap is there to buy then more time to actually integrate the classic plus aspect the higher you get in levels. I’m optimistic and feel it’s gonna be a lot of fun. Plus we can die again lol. Finally
I believe it could be your thoughts. But I also feel like it’s just a glorified beta for later game content while they polish up later game content like you said. See what works and what doesn’t as this is just a season meaning one day server will be brought down. Which leads me to think they will make a real classic + next year or maybe reveal that they are working on the classic + most people envisioned. Either way I’m pretty pumped to check out the new rune system! Cheers
I hope this is true, i would not be suprised if they got 3 more raids ready i also hope for some real new content/quests between phases, maybe some kind of pvp with rewards in other case they will be no reason to play early phases after hitting lvl cap, 1 10-man raid per 3 days is not enough imho, content is thing that concern me most
i had the same thoughts. its easy for them to pump out a quick dungeon into raid conversion for alot of classic dungies so easy couple months of dev time which hopefully means theyre putting in any extra time for kara crypts or uldum or maybe hyjal furbolg raid? IDK. . so many speculations i remain optimistic
I think a lot of people assume that its a time biding mechanism, but I think its a way to both force longevity of engagement (fresh every month basically) and also to make the experience savory for players. Without level banding, they would have spent a ton of time developing content for the game and 90% of it would have been rushed through by players who want to “stay with the pack” and rush to 60. This is a phenomenal way to create a phased approach to leveling so that everyone is on the same playing field throughout the leveling experience, without ruining the game. Now you minmax at checkpoints instead of saying “low level content wont matter in 10 levels so im just going to find the most efficient way to get exp and rush through the game.”
If you want to experiment in a way where you may make something OP (changing ANYTHING), you really need it to not count for a bit. You need the ability to mulligan. This is them throwing everything out there, from Warlock tanks to Mage healer, to let them see what's the WORST shit they should never do again. Don't worry, we're gonna tell them. And we're also gonna tell them what we like. And that goes into the next iteration, a "real Classic+"
Trueeee. Really reminds me of the PoE approach of the league introducing a new mechanic and after it will maybe go core. In essence the SoD is kinda the PTR?
I think a point almost every TH-camr/streamer that’s talked about their thoughts on classic plus has missed, or at least didn’t make an impactful enough statement on is the class revamping in regards to adding more roles. How many tanks were there in vanilla….1! Sure Druids could offtank or do dungeons, but if you wanted to tank, you were warrior or you picked a different role. How many warriors would be in a 40 man MC run? 20+!!! Because they were the top dps by a large margin, no one played demo lock, no one played ret pally, no one played combat rogue….these changes give every class so many more options to experience the game and makes every group comp that much better because of it.
I hope they do a Gnomer and SM raid at the same time. Think of walking up to SM and the STAIR ENTRANCE is a raid portal and when we enter, the whole lobby door area is a raid. Clear each wing to get the keys for the doors. 100% ready for it.
I'm interested in SoD, and I think some of the wilder changes could make for a fun time. It's like taking a week's vacation to Disneyland but people are treating it like you're moving into Disneyland. WOW's community treats the game like it's a sacred relic and that they're the priests. You're not allowed to touch it in a way they say you can't, and they fight over who is allowed to say what
You treating it like a disneyland vacation is exactly why tourists like you end up ruining the game. You shouldn't vote on something if you're going to enjoy it a bit then bail to play your favorite mode after ruining the version of a game that a certain demographic enjoy. Especially since this is supposed to cater to classic -era players, not retail / cata andies who are just bored of their version cause it's literally braindead outside of raid logging or sitting in queue in a major city.
@@wholawl I don't know how you can sit there and call future versions of the game boring when you've played the same bloody game for 20 years and believe it's something sacred. If all I played was Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time since it came out and Nintendo made an alternate version to play, I'd at least be excited to try it out, especially if it was going to be part of the foundation of a sequel/expansion. Vanilla is good, and I can see why people like it, but its not immaculate. Hell I think TBC is better than Vanilla.
I am excited. Seeing Stormwind or Ironforge filled with lvl 25s sounds fun. I think lvl 40 will be the most fun bracket, with people getting their mounts and lvl 40 talents.
I am excited about this. I think they nailed the reason classic doesn't feel as classic like.. Because every detail has been min/maxed to infinity. There is no mystery or divergence if you miss spend 2 talent points you can be kicked from a raid. It is just not what made us love the game. So discovering new things and play styles is exactly the perfect take on what we want even if we didn't realize we wanted it. I have high hopes.
Yeah I feel this. I was a ret paladin wearing a mix of healing gear and a shield and sword at one point in 2005. Then I started realising wtf I needed to start looking at other players and wowhead. Wasn't just me, so many people in my raid groups, we'd die as soon as a boss pulled or we'd all be oom in a minute. Now playing classic, every man and their dog is a dps warrior
I heard that they're increasing the damage of all mobs to compensate for the increased player power, but their health stays the same. The idea is that you should feel stronger, but the world should still feel dangerous so you can't just pull 5 mobs at a time because then you're gonna die. But not increasing their health also sounds a bit problematic. Some of the new abilities will allow you to pretty much one-shot mobs before they get a chance to hit you.
A lot of those one shot abilities are going to have decent CDs or require large mana investments though so you won't be able to do it constantly or will have to spend a decent amount of time drinking to recover mana to do it again. I'm okay with this.
If anything id like the questing world to be more dangerous but with increased xp and drop rewards . If this is the direction we are going then it's already been done, I hated leveling whole being super OP.
Love they're willing to experiment, but now there's no excuse to not fix the problems; Faction balance, boosts, multi-box, bots, gold buyers, lack of world PvP, raids designed around meta builds and addons, obsolete low-level zones, new expansion makes old content obsolete, lack of community building such as REQUIRED group content outside sweaty raids, etc. At this point it just looks like they're adding retail gameplay to Classic's world. - Rune: Damage + X - Monster: Health + X - Gameplay = Same I would love to see things like.. - Runes add penalty with buff. Like "Grants extra swing, but health reduced to 50%". This makes balancing easier and players must weigh the benefits/penalties of each rune. - Forced faction balance. Before character creation, the player has to select the faction. Only servers with
The lvl 25 cap is awesome in my mind. Im with you about the mage healer rogue tank etc but still will be cool I think the end goal is for lvl 60 classic plus with a few lvl cap stops on the way to give time to adjust to new metas and see where to land in regards to lvl 60 end game classic plus.
What people want for WoW plus is the private server Turtle WoW with a focus on refining classes and finishing old content that never came out as well as expanding content consistent with the lore. What you are getting is private server Ascension that throws the class rules out of the window and just goes with whatever change sounds fun in concept.
Today you have to either hate or love things. You need to pick a camp. You can't just try a thing out and be the judge yourself. Then decide if you want to keep doing it, or go on to another thing. That would be insane. And TBH even if you hate a thing.. make sure you keep consuming content about said thing and tell everyone that doesn't hate it why they are wrong.
I think in practice it'll be fun, having all the runes unlocked right away in the blizzcon demo was overwhelming but doing all sorts of fun new content to slowly unlock them will be different :)
The best part is it's experimental. They can easily tweak or tone down changes. Being that they're reusing lots of content/code, it should be easy for them to do this.
something fun to try and fuck around in and giving them more ammo showing people want classic+ and getting that eventually sounds good to me especially with finding out what works and what doesnt, hope im not being too optimistic
I like the idea of non pigeon holed classes into certain roles in order to raid. The wide range of choices now lets people play the flavor of class they like while in a Classic era version of WoW. I think there will be a repeatability of those older raids even at higher level eventually. This also feels like this is Classic + Beta test to send it and see what sticks. They could add runes to Classic WoW as plus content if we say uncovered them in an Uldum Patch that opens up these new class augmenting runes that are a there for the players to discover like in SOD. Could be really fun.
Judging by the math, 1/3 of the community is upset. It is only the warrior rogue mage warlock mains Who are upset about SOD, they just want the SAME solved meta game where THEY are the best. We already got that, it’s definitely time for a new thing!
When I think of classic plus I think of what classic could have been reimagined to be. SoD is the place to trial that and to see what people like and don’t like. It’s to explore all the ‘“what ifs”. What was interesting to me is I thought your point of limited development time. I completely agree with that. With limited time they need to make sure what they make will work for a real classic plus in the future. This is the testing grounds for that. I don’t think it was realistic for them to create new zones, create real new 25 or 40 man raids with the limited amount of development time they have. Great video though!
100% agree with Staysafe here. I think he speaks for a lot of us old Classic fans. Personally, I didn't think that many people in that subreddit were that positive about Season of Discovery. Everything that was laid off towards the end of this video about low hanging fruits was what I wanted to see in Season of Discovery. But instead, Blizzard put in the time to make many changes. It makes classes lose their identity if a rogue / warlock can tank and a mage can heal...
I disagree because you don't have to tank as a rogue, shaman, lock, or heal as mage because the other specs are soooo good. For example I can actually play affliction and destro and feel good about my class identity. If you want to mop the thawed ice off the floor as a mage why would you want to heal? If I'm feeling elemental on sham why would I tank if I can sit back and LAVA BURST? it's all on how we want to play and personify those identities, and it won't be the wild west of flavors with talents unchanged and limited slots for runes.
I don't think seeing other people play your class differently will spoil your experience, I would argue that it will actually make your unique identity stand out more, no longer bound by that nostalgic meta.
Feel the same, lot of this comes out of left field. However I would say Blizz could have just announced cata and retail at blizzcon and never bothered with any form of classic+, so for that Im looking forward to trying SoD and see where it goes
bro my hype got killed so hard when they announced more retail and cata classic, and then they caught me off guard completely with the classic+ announcement. what a rollercoaster.
As someone who struggled to find enjoyment in classic due to the way the classes felt so simple, it's compelling for me to want to try this season of classic. I like the idea of there being a bit more meat to the class specs. And my personal favorite, shaman tanking, is an absolute home run for bringing me to classic. With the added bonus that Ele get's Lava Burst. I can chunk meatballs in Classic WoW. That's dope.
My take is that whilst we have leveling caps it's guna get meme'd on, but once we're at level 60 and people are doing MC, BWL, AQ or anything new ie; Kara Crypts, people who didn't like it or want it guna have that FOMO.
This launching as a 'seasonal' server is a good idea. No mater how much it gets messed up itll get 'reset'. Excited to play around with it. Im also excited to try a classic where we arnt pigeon holed into 1 role per class, and only warrior tanks etc.
I think the only thing holding this back for most people is the ham-fisted way new abilities and content is being added. If the same idea of adding onto unfinished classes and specs was achieved through more flavorful means and talent tree tweaking I don't think there would be anywhere near as many people against Season of Discovery. Also, it's time for people to understand that Classic+ is not Classic nor should it be minor changes, you will never have the initial experience of 2004 or 2019 again. The same way that OSRS isn't 2007Scape from a content and balance standpoint that needs to be the mindset going into Season of Discovery and Classic+ if it were to happen. And here's a bit of a sacred cow roast, the way that Warlock, Hunter, Druid, and Paladin turned out in Vanilla and Classic was not ingenious class design and fantasy but the result of muddled and unfinished ideas. Hunters hilariously didn't even talent trees until after the Beta and that shows even through to 1.12. So I say bring on Tanking Shamans, Rogues, Warlocks, and Priests. Let Arcane mage become a Mistweaver, make melee Hunters viable, and make gear better itemized for every spec. Nerf Engineering into the ground and add talent trees to professions. Rebalance all the activated racial abilities for niche PvP application and distribute more +weapon skill racials. Make those level 25, 40, and 50 raids into Heroic 5 mans for level 60s.
I think its a cool idea. My only fear is the lose of "Class" Identity that we all love about Classic. The problem I've always had with Retail is that all the classes feel the same with minor differences.
if the cause for worry is losing class identity the last solution would be enabling more classes to tank and heal. shamans and paladin getting tank specs alongside druid and warrior should have been all they changed. that way both factions have 3 tank classes. when it comes to enhancement and retri dps, a few key fixes would be all it takes to make them viable as dpsers. for enhancement, a way to regain mana and a cooldown reduction on stormstrike would be a good first step, a cleave ability would also be welcome, like a whirlwind that does elemental (wind) damage instead of physical damage, perhaps with a guaranteed WF proc on the primary target of the ability would go a long way. for retri, crusader strike and a cleave would be a good first step (kudos to blizzard for getting both of these right on the first try with seal of the martyr and crusader strike). battle (melee) mage would be really cool as well, i'm sure people have already posted plenty of cool ideas for spells for a spec like this. rogues should have just gotten some aoe abilities and new poisons along with their shadow step. warlocks could get a niche anti-magic tanking that wasn't a fullblown sustained tank spec (at least outside of metamorph form). hunters getting a melee spec is enough in and of itself tbh. moonkin getting their mana issues fixed (oomkin) would have been enough to make them viable and interesting since they never really got a chance in vanilla. shadow priests getting some buffs to their mana battery role alongside their "mirror image" spell and a slight dps buff would be enough to fix them. i get that blizzard is going above and beyond these simple fixes to the classes in the game in order to get people hyped, but having so many classes able to tank and heal is not really what anyone asked for.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Problem is, you have to solve the tank / Healer shortage and this wouldn´t work with just "few changes" becouse People don´t like Warri tanks (hell i never got into Warrior as a tank, even when i had to play one myself. Something that changed with Paladin, but even this wasn´t the perfect one for me which lead to me changing my Main to a DH at Legion... ) and on the other hand the rogue tank seems to be more a 5 Man dungeon tank nothing more (same for the Mage healer, becouse he has to use Arcane and you can´t simply ignore Arcane resistent bosses in later raids [when they bring new ones] )
I understand what you mean mechanically but reading through the runes actually gives me a feeling of more class identity, especially in specialization which speaking of which the talents not changing is a good safeguard.
What would be crazy is if they do season of discovery like 3 times and then release it as classic plus. Onion progression > vertical / horizontal progression.
They didn't need to go out on a limb, the community told them exactly what they wanted. New content under the classic mechanics, that's it. Not XP Boosts, not a new magic system, not extensive class changes - that just sounds like retail. Count me out.
My favorite way to level has always been to have decent if not the best gear that I can have while I do so. If SoD will force people to stick around and farm me gear that will make me stronger out there in the free world, I’m all for it. Def going to play on a pvp server as well
It's a lot different than the classic+ that I would build, but there a lot of pros to making a lot of changes. All of the classic content, like guides and such, need to get remade. It's a huge opportunity for creators and a lot of entertainment for people to dig into. Imagine all of the new gold making strategies (solo dungeons, etc) just waiting to be found, for instance.
Pre 2019 Classic I think i would have gone for the smaller changes. After playing classic for years (and quitting in TBC) I am happy they went for some bolder changes to start things off. Otherwise I dont think I would be as excited to come back.
Completely agree. If "classic +" just meant that ret and prot pallies, spriests, boomies, non heal shamans, and maybe hunters get minor buffs then honestly thats way too boring. Warriors would still most likely be on top and not much would change besides maybe 3 or 4 raid spots per raid are different classes. At that point who cares? I dont want to prog all the way through Naxx all over again just to do some new fifth raid that might come a year from now, give me big shakeups. And thats what they decided to do. Couldnt be happier.
I agree with your analogy of cutting down the classic+ tree and throwing up a new one. It would have been enough to raise up the meme specs, the shadow priest, the retribution paladin, the balance Druid, etc, to give them new itemization / tier gear. To add new leveling dungeons, perhaps a new zone. These would have been tasteful changes in line with what people know and love. As far as the idea of building content that no one will do after two months, I think a way around that is to scale those dungeons up when the next cap is introduced. So at level 40, scale up blackfathom deeps so that it is still content that can be done.
I think this could be very, very fun but I can definitely see why there's such a divide. I personally think mage healers and warlock tanks is a bit over the top. Looking forward to trying it out though!
Warlock tanks isn´t new (they even existed a short time in the Vanilla Beta) and Mage Healers depends on how later raids will look like (becouse it is Healing through Arcane damage only)
Imo it looks fun and I’m excited for it, at worst it’s going to be a good testing ground for what works well and what should be included in a more traditional style classic +
IMHO this is just a beta for classic +, the same way SoM hardcore buff was a beta for hardcore server release. I think they keep the runes people liked as new abilities for a permanent classic + and throw away the rest. Or at least that's what I hope, because the way it sits it feels like a low effort modded P server, not a blizzard release.
great perspective. i agree with you on most points, its not what we wanted or expected. It might be a little too much. i guess ill give it a go while the hype is real
I agree with your comment on they should fix existing specs and classes and add content. I mean, just giving taunt to prot pala is a huge step. We don't need rogue tanks. Kinda kills the class fantasy also IMO. And as you said, some new dungeons also. I don't think we need higher level cap either, even if they add another end game raid. I also have an open mind about SoD and will play it. But I hope they make another version of classic+
From 13:19 to 13:25 is the mindset everyone should have going into SoD. Hate just for the sake of hate , when the season has not even launched yet and they have not played a single bit, is not even feedback worth taking seriously.
I think that the scope of the raid changes are mostly boss changes. I don’t think the lay out and environment is different. Which probably severely cuts down on development time.
I don’t have an issue with mage heals, druid* Windfury totem, rogue tanks, lock tanks, etc - it means horde will be able to utilize Tranquil Air; there will be less warriors overall, and there will be more options for tanks and healers. I feel this is all good for a Classic+ scenario. Button line: I asked for shaman tank, I got shaman tank, I’m thrilled ❤️ Dual-Wield shaman tank for elemental fights sounds awesome
I'm super looking forward to SoD, as someone that hasn't played wow since a few weeks into Dragonflight. I love all the things they are adding and I like the level cap at 25. Gives a super short level up process, so it's casual feeling. Sure, streams and others will no live the content and will probably finish everything in a few days. But it's still fine for others that can't game for 8+ hours a day too. Maybe it'll be a week before I get 25 and can raid. I enjoy the rune system to mix up the classes a bit, glad they are changing things up to make things fresh. I've seen people get bad because Blizz isn't innovating but here they are using imagination to add stuff to classes and people still get mad. What are they actually looking for? I haven't played wow in over a year but will be giving SoD a try.
I think we should be commending Blizzard for taking some risks in recent times they have been notorious for taking the safe route and not being creative. Now they finally do and people are mad. I have NFI how to please these people. Personally I can't wait, the raids will still get use when people are leveling new characters. A new raid is easier to make than a new zone. Blizzard is listening and ready to make adjustments along the way with all the new abilities added. I only wish they would use a poll system for the community to decide things.
I personally really like mage healers and rogue/warlock tanks. One of the most difficult things to do is find a tank or healer for groups. You can waste hours trying to do this. Making some of the most played classes have the opportunity to cover these highly needed roles is great. Imagine this, you can play a priest and you don't HAVE to be a healer every single time. You can be a warrior and not tank 100% of dungeons. You can be a paladin and do more than cast flash of light. Making ret and shadow viable means nothing because everyone needs you to heal in regular classic but now you have a chance. What a cool idea that now you can have a warrior, priest, mage, rogue, hunter. And instead of the same ol same ol you can have a rogue tank, mage heal, shadow priest for great off heals and damage, and a warrior DPS to offtank some adds that slip by. And the hunter can mulitshot and wipe the group the way god intended.
I think it's a genius move to do this from Blizzard. It's a way to take a new spin on an already loved game. There is no one forcing people to play this new experimental version of the game and i'm assuming the old classic servers are still going to be available? So either way it opens up the avenue for players to enjoy their favorite version of WoW in a new setting with new content. Some people simply enjoy the pacing of classic wow compared to Retails faster paced playstyle. So giving these players ways of expanding on the classic era version of WoW's fundamental mechanical functionality is a really good thing imo.
I really hope SoD is just the litmus test for whether developing new Classic+ content is worth it. I like the idea of runes to unlock classes playing roles they normally wouldn't, and using talents/spells from future versions seems like an easier way to test if it changes the meta than developing a whole new system. I want something like that for Classic+, but always saw it as more of an involved quest chain that lets you unlock portions of a skill tree from another class, or change your class into something your race can't normally play. I think that would allow devs to add in quests in areas that aren't explored as frequently, and also mix up useful stats on items.
same thought, but only difference between us here is: i always thought it would be a great idea to get new Tombs (similiar to tranquelised shot) in Raids or dungeons. But yeah i think runes are similiar to my idea
My take: 1) Fix mana issues on meme specs BASELINE (enh, ele, prot, ret, feral, moonkin, shadow) 2) Fix potential threat issues BASELINE (huge WF procs or similar) 3) Fix shaman, paladin and druid tanking, they were intended to tank with talents not through runes (make Way of Earth rune for example baseline) 4) No mage healing, rogue/warlock tanking 5) No immunities on bosses (mc fire immunities for example) 6) No debuff limit 7) Dwarven shaman for alliance, forsaken paladin for horde, no cross faction buff runes 8) Make useless abilities/skills (more)useful (windwall totem, rend, aspect of the beast) 9) Remove/lessen restrictions , like wf totem not working with poisons, imbues, feral druids, hunter pets, sharpening stones..., keeping more rage baseline with stance dancing, Travel Form/GW indoors, in general totem restrictions, Entangling Roots indoors etc. 10) Improve gear stats, especially for "battlemage specs" (merge crit/spellcrit, hit/spellhit, grant magical abilities AP scaling (rogue poisons, shocks for enh, serpent sting for hunter etc)... 11) Add spec specific sets like from tbc onward 12) Less restrictive mechanics (totems come to mind) 13) Some QoL changes (having to carry totems, ammo, soulstones reagents for spells) 14) Prioritise horde/alliance server pop balance (55/45 max), fight botting/gold buying and hackers 15) Some light pvp tuning (runes can help here) 16) Something like crono-boon for worldbuffs, maybe create an in-built buff-limbo for world buffs, and they only activate within raids. ...something like that Runes should take a backseat, before these things are resolved. Needless to say, if possible, stay as true to the character of vanilla as possible, and preferably stay away from too specificly tbc/wotlk/other x pack spells. We want something new that feels like it adds to something old/nostalgic, not something that turns something nostalgic into something we already have.
I couldn't agree more. I want some minor class rebalancing and new content, not a complete overhaul of the entire game that makes it feel like a different thing. I also agree about the lack of content in SoD - what am I supposed to do at lvl 25 for a month or more - I'd rather just be able to level freely all the way to 60 with the new rune system than be stuck doing some BFD raid for weeks on end - put that development effort into endgame.
Classic players have been begging for a shake up and when they get it half of them condemn it. I don’t think they know what they want lol. Good on bliz for shooting a shot, I hope it works out- am excite!
classic players asked for a few key changes and improvements to specs and classes along with more vanilla content. blizzard said "ok" and throw in tank specs for 11/10 classes and healing for mages like what. its like asking for a candy bar and then someone pours a cauldron of molten caramel over your head. they got the recipe correct, but the dosage is out of control lol
@@ZugzugZugzugson or being taken to the candy shop? More options isn’t a bad thing and it’s a chance for ppl to go nuts with the new tools. When WoW first came out there was plenty of talk from the old-head Everquesters about how the game was a joke and look how that turned out!
11:08 another reason why this is good. If they go for a classic+ in the future, the haters wont have as much fuel as everyone can point to this as "well at least it is not sod" when it comes to "too many changes".
I'm excited because if it's trash and we hate it then it's over in a year and we can try something different. And if it's great, then the next season can build off it. It's a win-win. Us trying this out is giving Blizzard the courage to try new things.
The big thing to remember is that we still have vanilla WoW no changes. I think it's important to really mix it up in the new seasons to try and rejuvenate the system and the meta. It's a temporary shake-up and if it flops all of these classic Andy's can just go back to vanilla. If it's great then we have a bunch of new content for vanilla which is great IMO.
I am so pumped for SoD. Classic + meant something different to everyone you ask. This is Blizzards version and I’m excited to try it out! PS I tried the demo at blizzcon and it was hella fun. Went thru the line twice to try two different classes
Season of Discovery is not for me unfortunately, I'll give it a try but don't intend to stay long and probably go back to Era or other versions. But I'm happy others are excited.
Good video first and foremost. A few thinks I want to say. First the bulk of the player base that are not on board fall into one of two camps. They either have been playing classic for 4 years and do not want all that time to be wasted or they have a credit card attached to their account and do not want there money to be wasted. The other thing I hope they do is set it up so the rune system is only obtainable from the new raids so they don't die. This is not unheard of for classic, zg enchants, bis items from MC, higher skills from AQ 20.
thanks for your opinion. I totally agree with everything you said in your video. I also think that Blizzard is bringing something here that no one has asked for, also It feels a bit too retail for me so I'm very skeptical about what's coming, I'll definitely have fun with SoD too, I just hope that everything Blizzard has come up with doesn't backfire.
Im excited for the chaos and bugs that will come out from the no testing/beta for it. Sounds like a blast and i look at this as a way to play classic in a non hardcore way to me it seems like having a 25 cap is a way for them to have players willingly give it a try without having to split the playerbase from the already 3 different versions of wow people are playing with vanilla wotlk and retail something to do while you wait for your raid for the week or something. It would be cool is when they raise the level cap they rebalance and raise the difficulty of all those raids previously to have a bunch of raida to do at end game
hi staysafe, i don't know if you'll read this comment but i want to add my thoughts as a player who enjoyed WoW the most during classic launch. IF the devs implement changes, i'd like them to be: regarding classes, while i'm open to trying out new stuff, in reality i'd preffer if the changes were only applied to certain specs to actually make them viable to play, and leave the ones that work mostly untouched. so that means no mage healers, no warlock or rogue tanks. the only class i'd be ok with being changed to a tank would be enh shamans, since they are analogous to paladins but on the horde side. also, classes should remain specific and shouldn't be able to do anything and everything. more important than classes though i think are the changes to the gameplay and the world. i think releasing the leveling through phases is a genius idea. leveling is one of the best parts of classic and this system makes people take their time playing the game instead of rushing to 60. also, reworking dungeons into entry level/leveling raids sounds awesome. i am very excited for the prospect of a scarlet monastery or a BRD raid. lastly, i'd like to see changes to the world in accordance to the spirit of classic but taking into account player power and experience. because lets face it, the game is kinda "solved" and that's a problem. the world needs to regain a sense of danger and mystery and that for me is a make or break for Classic +. an easy way to do this is increasing mob health and damage, but i'd like for the systems to be reworked deeper and further than that. rework and double down on resistances for example. things like werewolves being weak to silver weapons, undead being resistant to shadow and weak to light, armored mobs being resistant to slashing weapons but weak to blunt, etc. perhaps make new types of curses and diseases as permanent debuffs that stay on your character until you get dispelled or cured. small changes like that add to the whole feel of an "RPG".
I believe in Chris Metzen! It is the time to bring some fresh air into Wow. Guys it has been 20 years! And in time the classes will adjust to the class fantasy once again. Back in classic we didn't even know what a MOONKIN was. NOW EVERYBODY knows about "brrrrrrr STARFIRE brrrrrrrrrr" 😂 or was it MOONFIRE? I don't know any more. But you get my point 😂
I’m just excited for some NEW vanilla WoW content. I don’t care what form factor it is. I can agree they went a little overboard with some of the class changes like warlock tanks and mage healers. Overall though I think it’s going to be a blast to play.
Mage Healers will simply not work in harder raids / dungeons , becouse you have to use Arcane magic for it. Now put a arcane resistent Boss in one of this Raids / dungeons and have fun with healing (and when it will be Classic like, than a Arcane resistent boss will come sooner or later)
I feel like the level caps and low level raids are designed to be carried over to seasons of classic+, there used to be a thriving level 20 F2P twink meta on retail so I think as long as it feels like the time is long enough to be worth farming BiS gear it'll work well. The runes and other stuff seems to be borrowed from the Ascension WoW private server, not too big a fan of them and can't wait for rogue tank to wipe the raid by fat fingering vanish.
Two things: Having BFD, or, low level raids makes perfect sense, and yes they should spend time on it. Maybe for hardcore players and experience players that doesn't make sense, but having played this game since 2004 i don't know how many times i've told friends "you'll love this game! the raids are amazing, you just need to play 6 months to get to level 60 to experience it" and they just say "then i'll bail out. thanks". Having no raids in low levels is exactly the same as saying "there's no BG's until you get to 60" would anyone like that? That will give guilds reasons to come together at lower levels to accomplish things and start making friends. Regarding the point of cadence, well, my group is all 40's or close to it and we all started playing wow in 2004. The reason why everyone is actually playing SoD is because of that. Without any level bracket delay what would happen is that a small minority reaches level 60 extremely fast and the remaining persons will be left behind way too much and when we finally get to max level no one really wants to take us along because now everyone is already doing AQ or Naxx and we're now full of greens. They only need to keep this level delay small and not take more than 1/2 month per level bracket and get at each level brackets raids and things for people to farm for 2 or 3 weeks while the remaining people level up.
2024 blizzcon will announce classic + this is their playground beta test. anyone mad about this is short sighted or just wants to play vanilla era forever. Im so happy to see the relaxed clear communication from classic dev team and Im so happy they are taking risks for the sake of taking risks. rather than just always doing the money making thing. Im very hype to try SoD. I think it will be fun for at least a short time. and I believe the level cap increases will be super hype as well for a lot of people.
I think its good for them to develop raid content prior to level 60. Gives people lots of options during the level up stage on how they want to approach it.
I am really excited and come back to play wow. I do like the most ideas they have implemented in SoD. However I am also a bit sceptical when it comes to mage healing and warlock and rogue tanking. Anyways see you all on the 30. of Nov 😊
I think SoD is very valid for a season. It will certainly be fresh and new. I hope they scale the new "raids" to make them relevant at higher levels. I don't think the small numbers tweaking/rebalancing you're talking about wouldn't be enough to make Classic+ relevant. We need new content like you mentioned, but that is all way more effort than what SoD is bringing. SoD is a taste of change that is cheap for the devs. New content is a lot harder and will likely depend on how SoD is received and the feedback.
I think its a good idea to spend development resources on a lvl 25 raid, 35 raid, 45 raid and so on - paired with level caps. We might get more seasons of Discovery and Classic+ in the future - The level caps make people actually enjoy all the content and zones in the game, instead of everyone just rushing and boosting to level 60 and end-game directly. I think its great, to be honest.
It is possible the lower level raids will help increase leveling speed as the level cap goes up. They may not be the endgame later. But, they will help get you to endgame faster.
W video, Very solid points. Personally, I think this will pop of until level 25. Then when people get bored they will quit, and then go back to wrath or something, and personally, I think nobody will really remember what is going on, and that they will have to either re learn, or, don't play at all. They do have a solid Idea, and I think it will go well. A lot of points are very well met, and said by you. Thank you for the video and opening up about this topic. Hope they do not mess this up.
I think its a good idea and I appreciate them going out and trying something new and a bit risky. I am pleasantly surprised. Seeing more classes be viable will be awesome and if people don't like the rogue tank mage healer wonky builds then they can just change things up in the future. It seems like they should be able to be flexible with it since the rune system is not super complicated. The fact that it only goes to level 25 for now will make it easier to try different classes so I don't think I will run out of content very quickly, but people who don't like to play multiple alts might run out of content.
imagine if they dropped the concept of threat, and just had mobs use AI to most efficiently fight the players. Now you would have mage tanks as well, and priest tanks. Bosses should actively target glass cannons, as any rational entity in the entire world.
Your points about sod being a litmus test for classic + caught my attention. I don’t think blizz is using sod to test whether or not to do classic +, they have already committed substantial resources to revamping dungeons into raids and will more likely launch + servers in the future than not. Sod is just a way to test which specs, skills, metas to include in classic + servers when that time comes, and which metas were poorly received. To test these ideas in a non permanent seasonal timeline gives them a way to gather community feedback rather than release classic + in an unfinished state and have it be poorly received. To me this is blizzs way of engaging the classic community in the development of classic + rather than guessing at what the community wants. I also would imagine the bfd 10 man raid will be rebalanced to level cap in the future than to just die forever in first phase sod. But we will see.
i think they won´t bring freshs after the Season (or even a new Season), becouse they can simply bring an addon / new Server with our SOD Characters where they remove the Rune system (Runes that work / are loved will become a normal talent in the talent Tree / something you learn from your class trainer). I mean it wouldn´t be something new (remember Artifact Weapons and similiar things) , hell they could even change the runs mid season with the prefix: "only applys to Items with ilvl X / only usable till lvl X"
To all of the complainers if you want no class changes go play Classic Era. There will be crazy unbalanced classes and bugs, but I'll take that any day to get the feeling Vanilla gave me 19 years ago discovering things that aren't mapped out in 100+YT videos or wowhead
I feel that SOD is taking a step forward. The truth is, I'm tired of all companies continuing with the practice of nerfing instead of buffing to balance. Nerfing a character has a negative impact on the game's enjoyment, whereas buffing is the opposite. It could achieve balance and, at the same time, make the game more fun overall. Personally, I don't mind that other classes can also heal or tank, as it has always been a relatively scarce role. With this, we could form parties with classes that we wouldn't have thought of combining before. I think we'll have to play to see how these changes work out, but from my point of view, they look good.
Biggest issue for me is they are putting player power behind what is supposed to be a fun exploration element. If I know I want to be using my cool ability that means I’m going to look up online how to get it as fast as possible and not wait to run across it naturally. These items are now part of your toolkit to be compete.
It's not what I want, but the idea is growing on me. Main worry is that the old Blizzard is long gone and I don't think the current Blizzard are capable of deliving a vanila style product. Classic plus should be more classic style content, not this.
I think the whole point is they are making a lot of changes to see what works to pull into Classic+ real after SOD. Obviously the real world changes they do will still come They keep calling these “level up raids” I would imagine they give large XP so it’s worth to do it while normally leveling up. Not just grinding at 25 You’re asking for new leveling dungeons and zones that’s exactly what they are doing here with the leveling band approach…
I definitely feel what you were saying about being on the fence and a little apprehensive. Idk, to me, my mental image of what Classic+ should be is Turtle WoW. Basically take vanilla, but change very very little about, but add a lot to it. Lots more quests added in certain zones, new level and end game zones, new dungeons and raids, etc. Instead, they are making drastic changes to the gameplay and more minimal additions as far as new content goes (like new zones, dungeons, etc.) I'm not against it, but I don't see this being what I want out of Classic+ long term. It might be fun for a season, but at least personally, I don't think it's the main version of the game I would want to play. If this doesn't turn into a more permanent traditional version of Classic+ then in all likelihood I'll just find myself back on era servers.
I wouldn't mind if they removed a lot of pointless quests, and added a new type of temporary quests and exploration based quests. Autobalance to increase the rewards for being in unpopulated areas and then straight up autobalance the classes and talents. The less something is used, the powerful it gets. I think a parallel can be made with d4. People wanted an option to skip the campaign, to just grind mobs. That could work for WoW as well, just make the mob grinding purposeful, like grinding materials for your crafting or whatever.
Call me an optimist, but I don't see people disliking season of discovery, especially once they realize it's NOT a "Season" or "League", Blizz really fucked up with that word...They are going to be level-progression servers all the way to 60 over the course of like...6+ months? Letting us experience ALL Classic has to offer, rather than just rushing to end game, doing 1 new raid, then quitting. It's going to be FRESH like we've never seen before.
Raids should have a version for every 10 levels. So a level 20 raid should also have a level 30 40 50 and 60 version of it. Same looking gear except expanded upon with scaling appropriate to the level. This would keep any raid content relevant at basically any level while expanding gear choice.
The new low level raids need to have something in them to farm even beyond the lvl cap at the time, maybe leveling runes or fragments for a potential raid attunement? Pretty sure lvl 60 could solo the 25 ones easy or maybe they make it scale to level cap. That would be pretty cool, like a heroic or something.
And it's okay if warlocks are the worst tanks. Or if rogues are the worst tanks. It's okay to be the worst tank, okay? -Paladin players
Bear tank: “Hold my beer I’ll tr..”[SMACK😵!!!]
Misdirect on bear brings back such fond memories.
well, someone has to be the worst, and i'll be somewhat pissed if that "worst" is NOT rogue, warlock or hunter, and instead happens to be shaman, druid, paladin or warrior.
people were asking for shaman and pala tanks for classic+, not effin warlocks and rogues wtf.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Yeah I'd like to see them as 5man viable, but not raid viable, but we'll see I'm not making any judgments yet
@@ZugzugZugzugsoni mostly agree since I'm going shaman tank but people have always wanted warlock tanks because there is a fight in AQ where you need a warlock to tank and it's always been that way so I've heard people talk about how they enjoyed that part of AQ the most and would love to be a demo lock tank. The rogue thing not so much, I'd prefer if they made the tank talents for rogue more of a pirate/swashbuckler with high threat abilities able to tank for small group stuff or maybe be a handy OT in dungeons when the main tank is struggling or something. So like more of a support tank but not a true tank. Thematically that would be pretty cool but I just really like pirates 😂
I feel like they were in super deep into development when making SoD and over the last 6 months they saw the want for a classic +. My tin foil hat idea is that the lvl cap is there to buy then more time to actually integrate the classic plus aspect the higher you get in levels. I’m optimistic and feel it’s gonna be a lot of fun. Plus we can die again lol. Finally
I believe it could be your thoughts. But I also feel like it’s just a glorified beta for later game content while they polish up later game content like you said. See what works and what doesn’t as this is just a season meaning one day server will be brought down. Which leads me to think they will make a real classic + next year or maybe reveal that they are working on the classic + most people envisioned. Either way I’m pretty pumped to check out the new rune system! Cheers
I hope this is true, i would not be suprised if they got 3 more raids ready i also hope for some real new content/quests between phases, maybe some kind of pvp with rewards in other case they will be no reason to play early phases after hitting lvl cap, 1 10-man raid per 3 days is not enough imho, content is thing that concern me most
it's like when they released the vanilla classic beta and the cap was 30. sod is a beta
i had the same thoughts. its easy for them to pump out a quick dungeon into raid conversion for alot of classic dungies so easy couple months of dev time which hopefully means theyre putting in any extra time for kara crypts or uldum or maybe hyjal furbolg raid? IDK. . so many speculations i remain optimistic
I think a lot of people assume that its a time biding mechanism, but I think its a way to both force longevity of engagement (fresh every month basically) and also to make the experience savory for players. Without level banding, they would have spent a ton of time developing content for the game and 90% of it would have been rushed through by players who want to “stay with the pack” and rush to 60. This is a phenomenal way to create a phased approach to leveling so that everyone is on the same playing field throughout the leveling experience, without ruining the game. Now you minmax at checkpoints instead of saying “low level content wont matter in 10 levels so im just going to find the most efficient way to get exp and rush through the game.”
If you want to experiment in a way where you may make something OP (changing ANYTHING), you really need it to not count for a bit. You need the ability to mulligan. This is them throwing everything out there, from Warlock tanks to Mage healer, to let them see what's the WORST shit they should never do again. Don't worry, we're gonna tell them. And we're also gonna tell them what we like. And that goes into the next iteration, a "real Classic+"
Trueeee. Really reminds me of the PoE approach of the league introducing a new mechanic and after it will maybe go core. In essence the SoD is kinda the PTR?
I think a point almost every TH-camr/streamer that’s talked about their thoughts on classic plus has missed, or at least didn’t make an impactful enough statement on is the class revamping in regards to adding more roles. How many tanks were there in vanilla….1! Sure Druids could offtank or do dungeons, but if you wanted to tank, you were warrior or you picked a different role. How many warriors would be in a 40 man MC run? 20+!!! Because they were the top dps by a large margin, no one played demo lock, no one played ret pally, no one played combat rogue….these changes give every class so many more options to experience the game and makes every group comp that much better because of it.
I hope they do a Gnomer and SM raid at the same time.
Think of walking up to SM and the STAIR ENTRANCE is a raid portal and when we enter, the whole lobby door area is a raid. Clear each wing to get the keys for the doors. 100% ready for it.
I'm interested in SoD, and I think some of the wilder changes could make for a fun time. It's like taking a week's vacation to Disneyland but people are treating it like you're moving into Disneyland. WOW's community treats the game like it's a sacred relic and that they're the priests. You're not allowed to touch it in a way they say you can't, and they fight over who is allowed to say what
You treating it like a disneyland vacation is exactly why tourists like you end up ruining the game. You shouldn't vote on something if you're going to enjoy it a bit then bail to play your favorite mode after ruining the version of a game that a certain demographic enjoy.
Especially since this is supposed to cater to classic -era players, not retail / cata andies who are just bored of their version cause it's literally braindead outside of raid logging or sitting in queue in a major city.
@@wholawl I don't know how you can sit there and call future versions of the game boring when you've played the same bloody game for 20 years and believe it's something sacred.
If all I played was Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time since it came out and Nintendo made an alternate version to play, I'd at least be excited to try it out, especially if it was going to be part of the foundation of a sequel/expansion.
Vanilla is good, and I can see why people like it, but its not immaculate. Hell I think TBC is better than Vanilla.
I am excited. Seeing Stormwind or Ironforge filled with lvl 25s sounds fun. I think lvl 40 will be the most fun bracket, with people getting their mounts and lvl 40 talents.
I am excited about this. I think they nailed the reason classic doesn't feel as classic like.. Because every detail has been min/maxed to infinity. There is no mystery or divergence if you miss spend 2 talent points you can be kicked from a raid. It is just not what made us love the game. So discovering new things and play styles is exactly the perfect take on what we want even if we didn't realize we wanted it. I have high hopes.
Yeah I feel this. I was a ret paladin wearing a mix of healing gear and a shield and sword at one point in 2005. Then I started realising wtf I needed to start looking at other players and wowhead. Wasn't just me, so many people in my raid groups, we'd die as soon as a boss pulled or we'd all be oom in a minute. Now playing classic, every man and their dog is a dps warrior
I heard that they're increasing the damage of all mobs to compensate for the increased player power, but their health stays the same. The idea is that you should feel stronger, but the world should still feel dangerous so you can't just pull 5 mobs at a time because then you're gonna die. But not increasing their health also sounds a bit problematic. Some of the new abilities will allow you to pretty much one-shot mobs before they get a chance to hit you.
Bosses need more health for shure.. but mobs i thinks its ok if the die a little bit faster from 50- 60 mobs take tolong to die.
A lot of those one shot abilities are going to have decent CDs or require large mana investments though so you won't be able to do it constantly or will have to spend a decent amount of time drinking to recover mana to do it again. I'm okay with this.
If anything id like the questing world to be more dangerous but with increased xp and drop rewards .
If this is the direction we are going then it's already been done, I hated leveling whole being super OP.
Love they're willing to experiment, but now there's no excuse to not fix the problems;
Faction balance, boosts, multi-box, bots, gold buyers, lack of world PvP, raids designed around meta builds and addons, obsolete low-level zones, new expansion makes old content obsolete, lack of community building such as REQUIRED group content outside sweaty raids, etc.
At this point it just looks like they're adding retail gameplay to Classic's world.
- Rune: Damage + X
- Monster: Health + X
- Gameplay = Same
I would love to see things like..
- Runes add penalty with buff. Like "Grants extra swing, but health reduced to 50%". This makes balancing easier and players must weigh the benefits/penalties of each rune.
- Forced faction balance. Before character creation, the player has to select the faction. Only servers with
The lvl 25 cap is awesome in my mind. Im with you about the mage healer rogue tank etc but still will be cool I think the end goal is for lvl 60 classic plus with a few lvl cap stops on the way to give time to adjust to new metas and see where to land in regards to lvl 60 end game classic plus.
6:28 Nice Thumbnail @SaysafeTV, i feel like i recognize it somehow :D✌️
What people want for WoW plus is the private server Turtle WoW with a focus on refining classes and finishing old content that never came out as well as expanding content consistent with the lore. What you are getting is private server Ascension that throws the class rules out of the window and just goes with whatever change sounds fun in concept.
Out of all the reactions to SoD I'vee seen, this is definitely the one I feel the closest to. Surprised, concerned but cautiously optimistic.
yes the traditional wow experience of 39 warriors and 1 rogue,,,,,super fun
I’m stoked! My only worry is they pop in a last minute WoW token or level boost
Today you have to either hate or love things. You need to pick a camp. You can't just try a thing out and be the judge yourself. Then decide if you want to keep doing it, or go on to another thing. That would be insane. And TBH even if you hate a thing.. make sure you keep consuming content about said thing and tell everyone that doesn't hate it why they are wrong.
I think in practice it'll be fun, having all the runes unlocked right away in the blizzcon demo was overwhelming but doing all sorts of fun new content to slowly unlock them will be different :)
The best part is it's experimental. They can easily tweak or tone down changes. Being that they're reusing lots of content/code, it should be easy for them to do this.
I don't think that you had acces to all the runes in the Blizzcon demo
Everybody wanted Turtle WoW , but we got Ascension Wow . sadge
something fun to try and fuck around in and giving them more ammo showing people want classic+ and getting that eventually sounds good to me especially with finding out what works and what doesnt, hope im not being too optimistic
I like the idea of non pigeon holed classes into certain roles in order to raid. The wide range of choices now lets people play the flavor of class they like while in a Classic era version of WoW. I think there will be a repeatability of those older raids even at higher level eventually. This also feels like this is Classic + Beta test to send it and see what sticks. They could add runes to Classic WoW as plus content if we say uncovered them in an Uldum Patch that opens up these new class augmenting runes that are a there for the players to discover like in SOD. Could be really fun.
Judging by the math, 1/3 of the community is upset. It is only the warrior rogue mage warlock mains Who are upset about SOD, they just want the SAME solved meta game where THEY are the best. We already got that, it’s definitely time for a new thing!
When I think of classic plus I think of what classic could have been reimagined to be. SoD is the place to trial that and to see what people like and don’t like. It’s to explore all the ‘“what ifs”. What was interesting to me is I thought your point of limited development time. I completely agree with that. With limited time they need to make sure what they make will work for a real classic plus in the future. This is the testing grounds for that. I don’t think it was realistic for them to create new zones, create real new 25 or 40 man raids with the limited amount of development time they have. Great video though!
keep pumping them videos, we all love them!
100% agree with Staysafe here. I think he speaks for a lot of us old Classic fans. Personally, I didn't think that many people in that subreddit were that positive about Season of Discovery. Everything that was laid off towards the end of this video about low hanging fruits was what I wanted to see in Season of Discovery. But instead, Blizzard put in the time to make many changes. It makes classes lose their identity if a rogue / warlock can tank and a mage can heal...
I disagree because you don't have to tank as a rogue, shaman, lock, or heal as mage because the other specs are soooo good. For example I can actually play affliction and destro and feel good about my class identity. If you want to mop the thawed ice off the floor as a mage why would you want to heal? If I'm feeling elemental on sham why would I tank if I can sit back and LAVA BURST? it's all on how we want to play and personify those identities, and it won't be the wild west of flavors with talents unchanged and limited slots for runes.
I don't think seeing other people play your class differently will spoil your experience, I would argue that it will actually make your unique identity stand out more, no longer bound by that nostalgic meta.
If you watch Crix's interview...they started on this project when they released Classic in 2019.
Feel the same, lot of this comes out of left field. However I would say Blizz could have just announced cata and retail at blizzcon and never bothered with any form of classic+, so for that Im looking forward to trying SoD and see where it goes
bro my hype got killed so hard when they announced more retail and cata classic, and then they caught me off guard completely with the classic+ announcement. what a rollercoaster.
As someone who struggled to find enjoyment in classic due to the way the classes felt so simple, it's compelling for me to want to try this season of classic. I like the idea of there being a bit more meat to the class specs. And my personal favorite, shaman tanking, is an absolute home run for bringing me to classic. With the added bonus that Ele get's Lava Burst. I can chunk meatballs in Classic WoW. That's dope.
My take is that whilst we have leveling caps it's guna get meme'd on, but once we're at level 60 and people are doing MC, BWL, AQ or anything new ie; Kara Crypts, people who didn't like it or want it guna have that FOMO.
This launching as a 'seasonal' server is a good idea. No mater how much it gets messed up itll get 'reset'. Excited to play around with it. Im also excited to try a classic where we arnt pigeon holed into 1 role per class, and only warrior tanks etc.
I think the only thing holding this back for most people is the ham-fisted way new abilities and content is being added. If the same idea of adding onto unfinished classes and specs was achieved through more flavorful means and talent tree tweaking I don't think there would be anywhere near as many people against Season of Discovery. Also, it's time for people to understand that Classic+ is not Classic nor should it be minor changes, you will never have the initial experience of 2004 or 2019 again. The same way that OSRS isn't 2007Scape from a content and balance standpoint that needs to be the mindset going into Season of Discovery and Classic+ if it were to happen.
And here's a bit of a sacred cow roast, the way that Warlock, Hunter, Druid, and Paladin turned out in Vanilla and Classic was not ingenious class design and fantasy but the result of muddled and unfinished ideas. Hunters hilariously didn't even talent trees until after the Beta and that shows even through to 1.12. So I say bring on Tanking Shamans, Rogues, Warlocks, and Priests. Let Arcane mage become a Mistweaver, make melee Hunters viable, and make gear better itemized for every spec. Nerf Engineering into the ground and add talent trees to professions. Rebalance all the activated racial abilities for niche PvP application and distribute more +weapon skill racials. Make those level 25, 40, and 50 raids into Heroic 5 mans for level 60s.
I think its a cool idea. My only fear is the lose of "Class" Identity that we all love about Classic. The problem I've always had with Retail is that all the classes feel the same with minor differences.
And instead of a Mage healer, they should have made a melee "battle Mage" with summons and stuff.
if the cause for worry is losing class identity the last solution would be enabling more classes to tank and heal.
shamans and paladin getting tank specs alongside druid and warrior should have been all they changed. that way both factions have 3 tank classes.
when it comes to enhancement and retri dps, a few key fixes would be all it takes to make them viable as dpsers.
for enhancement, a way to regain mana and a cooldown reduction on stormstrike would be a good first step, a cleave ability would also be welcome, like a whirlwind that does elemental (wind) damage instead of physical damage, perhaps with a guaranteed WF proc on the primary target of the ability would go a long way.
for retri, crusader strike and a cleave would be a good first step (kudos to blizzard for getting both of these right on the first try with seal of the martyr and crusader strike).
battle (melee) mage would be really cool as well, i'm sure people have already posted plenty of cool ideas for spells for a spec like this.
rogues should have just gotten some aoe abilities and new poisons along with their shadow step.
warlocks could get a niche anti-magic tanking that wasn't a fullblown sustained tank spec (at least outside of metamorph form).
hunters getting a melee spec is enough in and of itself tbh.
moonkin getting their mana issues fixed (oomkin) would have been enough to make them viable and interesting since they never really got a chance in vanilla.
shadow priests getting some buffs to their mana battery role alongside their "mirror image" spell and a slight dps buff would be enough to fix them.
i get that blizzard is going above and beyond these simple fixes to the classes in the game in order to get people hyped, but having so many classes able to tank and heal is not really what anyone asked for.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Problem is, you have to solve the tank / Healer shortage and this wouldn´t work with just "few changes" becouse People don´t like Warri tanks (hell i never got into Warrior as a tank, even when i had to play one myself. Something that changed with Paladin, but even this wasn´t the perfect one for me which lead to me changing my Main to a DH at Legion... ) and on the other hand the rogue tank seems to be more a 5 Man dungeon tank nothing more (same for the Mage healer, becouse he has to use Arcane and you can´t simply ignore Arcane resistent bosses in later raids [when they bring new ones] )
@@kylehofmeister6906battle mage would be just too OP
I understand what you mean mechanically but reading through the runes actually gives me a feeling of more class identity, especially in specialization which speaking of which the talents not changing is a good safeguard.
What would be crazy is if they do season of discovery like 3 times and then release it as classic plus. Onion progression > vertical / horizontal progression.
It definitely wasn't what I expected, but it may turn out to be better!
They didn't need to go out on a limb, the community told them exactly what they wanted. New content under the classic mechanics, that's it. Not XP Boosts, not a new magic system, not extensive class changes - that just sounds like retail. Count me out.
100% agree
yep, blizzard is incompetent even when told what to do. Anyone can see it for what it is, classic RETAIL
My favorite way to level has always been to have decent if not the best gear that I can have while I do so. If SoD will force people to stick around and farm me gear that will make me stronger out there in the free world, I’m all for it. Def going to play on a pvp server as well
What if they take all these new leveling raids and give us a scaled up 60 leveled version of those raids so they aren’t wasted over time
It's a lot different than the classic+ that I would build, but there a lot of pros to making a lot of changes. All of the classic content, like guides and such, need to get remade. It's a huge opportunity for creators and a lot of entertainment for people to dig into. Imagine all of the new gold making strategies (solo dungeons, etc) just waiting to be found, for instance.
Pre 2019 Classic I think i would have gone for the smaller changes. After playing classic for years (and quitting in TBC) I am happy they went for some bolder changes to start things off. Otherwise I dont think I would be as excited to come back.
Exactly
Completely agree. If "classic +" just meant that ret and prot pallies, spriests, boomies, non heal shamans, and maybe hunters get minor buffs then honestly thats way too boring. Warriors would still most likely be on top and not much would change besides maybe 3 or 4 raid spots per raid are different classes. At that point who cares? I dont want to prog all the way through Naxx all over again just to do some new fifth raid that might come a year from now, give me big shakeups. And thats what they decided to do. Couldnt be happier.
I agree with your analogy of cutting down the classic+ tree and throwing up a new one. It would have been enough to raise up the meme specs, the shadow priest, the retribution paladin, the balance Druid, etc, to give them new itemization / tier gear. To add new leveling dungeons, perhaps a new zone. These would have been tasteful changes in line with what people know and love.
As far as the idea of building content that no one will do after two months, I think a way around that is to scale those dungeons up when the next cap is introduced. So at level 40, scale up blackfathom deeps so that it is still content that can be done.
I think this could be very, very fun but I can definitely see why there's such a divide. I personally think mage healers and warlock tanks is a bit over the top. Looking forward to trying it out though!
Warlock tanks isn´t new (they even existed a short time in the Vanilla Beta) and Mage Healers depends on how later raids will look like (becouse it is Healing through Arcane damage only)
Imo it looks fun and I’m excited for it, at worst it’s going to be a good testing ground for what works well and what should be included in a more traditional style classic +
Love the content. Keep up the work. I would like to see you on Whatever Podcast again next year.
IMHO this is just a beta for classic +, the same way SoM hardcore buff was a beta for hardcore server release. I think they keep the runes people liked as new abilities for a permanent classic + and throw away the rest. Or at least that's what I hope, because the way it sits it feels like a low effort modded P server, not a blizzard release.
great perspective. i agree with you on most points, its not what we wanted or expected. It might be a little too much. i guess ill give it a go while the hype is real
I agree with your comment on they should fix existing specs and classes and add content. I mean, just giving taunt to prot pala is a huge step. We don't need rogue tanks. Kinda kills the class fantasy also IMO.
And as you said, some new dungeons also. I don't think we need higher level cap either, even if they add another end game raid. I also have an open mind about SoD and will play it. But I hope they make another version of classic+
From 13:19 to 13:25 is the mindset everyone should have going into SoD. Hate just for the sake of hate , when the season has not even launched yet and they have not played a single bit, is not even feedback worth taking seriously.
I think that the scope of the raid changes are mostly boss changes. I don’t think the lay out and environment is different. Which probably severely cuts down on development time.
Love the idea im apprehensive about the homologous nature of the rune system. But ill wait to see how it plays all around im excited to give it a try
I don’t have an issue with mage heals, druid* Windfury totem, rogue tanks, lock tanks, etc - it means horde will be able to utilize Tranquil Air; there will be less warriors overall, and there will be more options for tanks and healers. I feel this is all good for a Classic+ scenario.
Button line: I asked for shaman tank, I got shaman tank, I’m thrilled ❤️ Dual-Wield shaman tank for elemental fights sounds awesome
I'm super looking forward to SoD, as someone that hasn't played wow since a few weeks into Dragonflight. I love all the things they are adding and I like the level cap at 25. Gives a super short level up process, so it's casual feeling. Sure, streams and others will no live the content and will probably finish everything in a few days. But it's still fine for others that can't game for 8+ hours a day too. Maybe it'll be a week before I get 25 and can raid. I enjoy the rune system to mix up the classes a bit, glad they are changing things up to make things fresh. I've seen people get bad because Blizz isn't innovating but here they are using imagination to add stuff to classes and people still get mad. What are they actually looking for? I haven't played wow in over a year but will be giving SoD a try.
I think we should be commending Blizzard for taking some risks in recent times they have been notorious for taking the safe route and not being creative. Now they finally do and people are mad. I have NFI how to please these people. Personally I can't wait, the raids will still get use when people are leveling new characters. A new raid is easier to make than a new zone. Blizzard is listening and ready to make adjustments along the way with all the new abilities added. I only wish they would use a poll system for the community to decide things.
I personally really like mage healers and rogue/warlock tanks. One of the most difficult things to do is find a tank or healer for groups. You can waste hours trying to do this. Making some of the most played classes have the opportunity to cover these highly needed roles is great.
Imagine this, you can play a priest and you don't HAVE to be a healer every single time. You can be a warrior and not tank 100% of dungeons. You can be a paladin and do more than cast flash of light. Making ret and shadow viable means nothing because everyone needs you to heal in regular classic but now you have a chance.
What a cool idea that now you can have a warrior, priest, mage, rogue, hunter. And instead of the same ol same ol you can have a rogue tank, mage heal, shadow priest for great off heals and damage, and a warrior DPS to offtank some adds that slip by. And the hunter can mulitshot and wipe the group the way god intended.
I think it's a genius move to do this from Blizzard.
It's a way to take a new spin on an already loved game.
There is no one forcing people to play this new experimental version of the game and i'm assuming the old classic servers are still going to be available?
So either way it opens up the avenue for players to enjoy their favorite version of WoW in a new setting with new content.
Some people simply enjoy the pacing of classic wow compared to Retails faster paced playstyle.
So giving these players ways of expanding on the classic era version of WoW's fundamental mechanical functionality is a really good thing imo.
I really hope SoD is just the litmus test for whether developing new Classic+ content is worth it. I like the idea of runes to unlock classes playing roles they normally wouldn't, and using talents/spells from future versions seems like an easier way to test if it changes the meta than developing a whole new system. I want something like that for Classic+, but always saw it as more of an involved quest chain that lets you unlock portions of a skill tree from another class, or change your class into something your race can't normally play. I think that would allow devs to add in quests in areas that aren't explored as frequently, and also mix up useful stats on items.
same thought, but only difference between us here is: i always thought it would be a great idea to get new Tombs (similiar to tranquelised shot) in Raids or dungeons. But yeah i think runes are similiar to my idea
My take:
1) Fix mana issues on meme specs BASELINE (enh, ele, prot, ret, feral, moonkin, shadow)
2) Fix potential threat issues BASELINE (huge WF procs or similar)
3) Fix shaman, paladin and druid tanking, they were intended to tank with talents not through runes (make Way of Earth rune for example baseline)
4) No mage healing, rogue/warlock tanking
5) No immunities on bosses (mc fire immunities for example)
6) No debuff limit
7) Dwarven shaman for alliance, forsaken paladin for horde, no cross faction buff runes
8) Make useless abilities/skills (more)useful (windwall totem, rend, aspect of the beast)
9) Remove/lessen restrictions , like wf totem not working with poisons, imbues, feral druids, hunter pets, sharpening stones..., keeping more rage baseline with stance dancing, Travel Form/GW indoors, in general totem restrictions, Entangling Roots indoors etc.
10) Improve gear stats, especially for "battlemage specs" (merge crit/spellcrit, hit/spellhit, grant magical abilities AP scaling (rogue poisons, shocks for enh, serpent sting for hunter etc)...
11) Add spec specific sets like from tbc onward
12) Less restrictive mechanics (totems come to mind)
13) Some QoL changes (having to carry totems, ammo, soulstones reagents for spells)
14) Prioritise horde/alliance server pop balance (55/45 max), fight botting/gold buying and hackers
15) Some light pvp tuning (runes can help here)
16) Something like crono-boon for worldbuffs, maybe create an in-built buff-limbo for world buffs, and they only activate within raids.
...something like that
Runes should take a backseat, before these things are resolved. Needless to say, if possible, stay as true to the character of vanilla as possible, and preferably stay away from too specificly tbc/wotlk/other x pack spells. We want something new that feels like it adds to something old/nostalgic, not something that turns something nostalgic into something we already have.
I couldn't agree more. I want some minor class rebalancing and new content, not a complete overhaul of the entire game that makes it feel like a different thing. I also agree about the lack of content in SoD - what am I supposed to do at lvl 25 for a month or more - I'd rather just be able to level freely all the way to 60 with the new rune system than be stuck doing some BFD raid for weeks on end - put that development effort into endgame.
I felt targeted when he said shadow priest
Classic players have been begging for a shake up and when they get it half of them condemn it. I don’t think they know what they want lol. Good on bliz for shooting a shot, I hope it works out- am excite!
classic players asked for a few key changes and improvements to specs and classes along with more vanilla content.
blizzard said "ok" and throw in tank specs for 11/10 classes and healing for mages like what.
its like asking for a candy bar and then someone pours a cauldron of molten caramel over your head.
they got the recipe correct, but the dosage is out of control lol
@@ZugzugZugzugson or being taken to the candy shop? More options isn’t a bad thing and it’s a chance for ppl to go nuts with the new tools. When WoW first came out there was plenty of talk from the old-head Everquesters about how the game was a joke and look how that turned out!
11:08 another reason why this is good. If they go for a classic+ in the future, the haters wont have as much fuel as everyone can point to this as "well at least it is not sod" when it comes to "too many changes".
I'm excited because if it's trash and we hate it then it's over in a year and we can try something different. And if it's great, then the next season can build off it. It's a win-win. Us trying this out is giving Blizzard the courage to try new things.
The big thing to remember is that we still have vanilla WoW no changes. I think it's important to really mix it up in the new seasons to try and rejuvenate the system and the meta. It's a temporary shake-up and if it flops all of these classic Andy's can just go back to vanilla. If it's great then we have a bunch of new content for vanilla which is great IMO.
I have a feeling it will flop. Just because there is a bunch of hype for it doesn’t mean it will be good especially long term.
You are 100% correct, sadly it's impossible to explain this to retail-brains.
I am so pumped for SoD. Classic + meant something different to everyone you ask. This is Blizzards version and I’m excited to try it out!
PS I tried the demo at blizzcon and it was hella fun. Went thru the line twice to try two different classes
Season of Discovery is not for me unfortunately, I'll give it a try but don't intend to stay long and probably go back to Era or other versions. But I'm happy others are excited.
Played an oomkin in SOM and they were fine. Might try another again in SOD.
Good video first and foremost. A few thinks I want to say.
First the bulk of the player base that are not on board fall into one of two camps. They either have been playing classic for 4 years and do not want all that time to be wasted or they have a credit card attached to their account and do not want there money to be wasted.
The other thing I hope they do is set it up so the rune system is only obtainable from the new raids so they don't die. This is not unheard of for classic, zg enchants, bis items from MC, higher skills from AQ 20.
I'm cautiously optimistic. Hopefully things go well and they build iteratively on it.
thanks for your opinion. I totally agree with everything you said in your video. I also think that Blizzard is bringing something here that no one has asked for, also
It feels a bit too retail for me so I'm very skeptical about what's coming, I'll definitely have fun with SoD too, I just hope that everything Blizzard has come up with doesn't backfire.
Im excited for the chaos and bugs that will come out from the no testing/beta for it. Sounds like a blast and i look at this as a way to play classic in a non hardcore way to me it seems like having a 25 cap is a way for them to have players willingly give it a try without having to split the playerbase from the already 3 different versions of wow people are playing with vanilla wotlk and retail something to do while you wait for your raid for the week or something. It would be cool is when they raise the level cap they rebalance and raise the difficulty of all those raids previously to have a bunch of raida to do at end game
hi staysafe, i don't know if you'll read this comment but i want to add my thoughts as a player who enjoyed WoW the most during classic launch.
IF the devs implement changes, i'd like them to be:
regarding classes, while i'm open to trying out new stuff, in reality i'd preffer if the changes were only applied to certain specs to actually make them viable to play, and leave the ones that work mostly untouched. so that means no mage healers, no warlock or rogue tanks. the only class i'd be ok with being changed to a tank would be enh shamans, since they are analogous to paladins but on the horde side.
also, classes should remain specific and shouldn't be able to do anything and everything.
more important than classes though i think are the changes to the gameplay and the world.
i think releasing the leveling through phases is a genius idea. leveling is one of the best parts of classic and this system makes people take their time playing the game instead of rushing to 60.
also, reworking dungeons into entry level/leveling raids sounds awesome. i am very excited for the prospect of a scarlet monastery or a BRD raid.
lastly, i'd like to see changes to the world in accordance to the spirit of classic but taking into account player power and experience. because lets face it, the game is kinda "solved" and that's a problem. the world needs to regain a sense of danger and mystery and that for me is a make or break for Classic +.
an easy way to do this is increasing mob health and damage, but i'd like for the systems to be reworked deeper and further than that. rework and double down on resistances for example. things like werewolves being weak to silver weapons, undead being resistant to shadow and weak to light, armored mobs being resistant to slashing weapons but weak to blunt, etc. perhaps make new types of curses and diseases as permanent debuffs that stay on your character until you get dispelled or cured. small changes like that add to the whole feel of an "RPG".
I believe in Chris Metzen! It is the time to bring some fresh air into Wow. Guys it has been 20 years! And in time the classes will adjust to the class fantasy once again. Back in classic we didn't even know what a MOONKIN was. NOW EVERYBODY knows about "brrrrrrr STARFIRE brrrrrrrrrr" 😂 or was it MOONFIRE? I don't know any more. But you get my point 😂
SoD should be seen as a pilot for an eventual "Classic+" so don't worry if some of the experimental variables seem poorly tuned
I’m just excited for some NEW vanilla WoW content. I don’t care what form factor it is. I can agree they went a little overboard with some of the class changes like warlock tanks and mage healers. Overall though I think it’s going to be a blast to play.
Mage Healers will simply not work in harder raids / dungeons , becouse you have to use Arcane magic for it. Now put a arcane resistent Boss in one of this Raids / dungeons and have fun with healing (and when it will be Classic like, than a Arcane resistent boss will come sooner or later)
I feel like the level caps and low level raids are designed to be carried over to seasons of classic+, there used to be a thriving level 20 F2P twink meta on retail so I think as long as it feels like the time is long enough to be worth farming BiS gear it'll work well. The runes and other stuff seems to be borrowed from the Ascension WoW private server, not too big a fan of them and can't wait for rogue tank to wipe the raid by fat fingering vanish.
Two things: Having BFD, or, low level raids makes perfect sense, and yes they should spend time on it. Maybe for hardcore players and experience players that doesn't make sense, but having played this game since 2004 i don't know how many times i've told friends "you'll love this game! the raids are amazing, you just need to play 6 months to get to level 60 to experience it" and they just say "then i'll bail out. thanks". Having no raids in low levels is exactly the same as saying "there's no BG's until you get to 60" would anyone like that? That will give guilds reasons to come together at lower levels to accomplish things and start making friends. Regarding the point of cadence, well, my group is all 40's or close to it and we all started playing wow in 2004. The reason why everyone is actually playing SoD is because of that. Without any level bracket delay what would happen is that a small minority reaches level 60 extremely fast and the remaining persons will be left behind way too much and when we finally get to max level no one really wants to take us along because now everyone is already doing AQ or Naxx and we're now full of greens. They only need to keep this level delay small and not take more than 1/2 month per level bracket and get at each level brackets raids and things for people to farm for 2 or 3 weeks while the remaining people level up.
2024 blizzcon will announce classic + this is their playground beta test. anyone mad about this is short sighted or just wants to play vanilla era forever. Im so happy to see the relaxed clear communication from classic dev team and Im so happy they are taking risks for the sake of taking risks. rather than just always doing the money making thing. Im very hype to try SoD. I think it will be fun for at least a short time. and I believe the level cap increases will be super hype as well for a lot of people.
I think its good for them to develop raid content prior to level 60. Gives people lots of options during the level up stage on how they want to approach it.
I am really excited and come back to play wow. I do like the most ideas they have implemented in SoD. However I am also a bit sceptical when it comes to mage healing and warlock and rogue tanking. Anyways see you all on the 30. of Nov 😊
I'm so excited to try something new! we can always get a vanilla classic fresh in the future!
I think SoD is very valid for a season. It will certainly be fresh and new. I hope they scale the new "raids" to make them relevant at higher levels. I don't think the small numbers tweaking/rebalancing you're talking about wouldn't be enough to make Classic+ relevant. We need new content like you mentioned, but that is all way more effort than what SoD is bringing. SoD is a taste of change that is cheap for the devs. New content is a lot harder and will likely depend on how SoD is received and the feedback.
This video is much nicer than how the actual stream went KEKW
I think the gameplay meta is going to be getting lvl 25 bis gear and playing alts, since getting alts to max is so easy.
I think its a good idea to spend development resources on a lvl 25 raid, 35 raid, 45 raid and so on - paired with level caps.
We might get more seasons of Discovery and Classic+ in the future - The level caps make people actually enjoy all the content and zones in the game, instead of everyone just rushing and boosting to level 60 and end-game directly. I think its great, to be honest.
It is possible the lower level raids will help increase leveling speed as the level cap goes up. They may not be the endgame later. But, they will help get you to endgame faster.
For THAT server. The main attraction is the gambling like progress system and all the FOMO. Server would died years ago without it
W video, Very solid points. Personally, I think this will pop of until level 25. Then when people get bored they will quit, and then go back to wrath or something, and personally, I think nobody will really remember what is going on, and that they will have to either re learn, or, don't play at all. They do have a solid Idea, and I think it will go well. A lot of points are very well met, and said by you. Thank you for the video and opening up about this topic. Hope they do not mess this up.
I think its a good idea and I appreciate them going out and trying something new and a bit risky. I am pleasantly surprised. Seeing more classes be viable will be awesome and if people don't like the rogue tank mage healer wonky builds then they can just change things up in the future. It seems like they should be able to be flexible with it since the rune system is not super complicated. The fact that it only goes to level 25 for now will make it easier to try different classes so I don't think I will run out of content very quickly, but people who don't like to play multiple alts might run out of content.
i am too... and they releasing a fresh so ppl need to stop complaining
imagine if they dropped the concept of threat, and just had mobs use AI to most efficiently fight the players.
Now you would have mage tanks as well, and priest tanks. Bosses should actively target glass cannons, as any rational entity in the entire world.
Your points about sod being a litmus test for classic + caught my attention. I don’t think blizz is using sod to test whether or not to do classic +, they have already committed substantial resources to revamping dungeons into raids and will more likely launch + servers in the future than not.
Sod is just a way to test which specs, skills, metas to include in classic + servers when that time comes, and which metas were poorly received. To test these ideas in a non permanent seasonal timeline gives them a way to gather community feedback rather than release classic + in an unfinished state and have it be poorly received.
To me this is blizzs way of engaging the classic community in the development of classic + rather than guessing at what the community wants.
I also would imagine the bfd 10 man raid will be rebalanced to level cap in the future than to just die forever in first phase sod. But we will see.
i think they won´t bring freshs after the Season (or even a new Season), becouse they can simply bring an addon / new Server with our SOD Characters where they remove the Rune system (Runes that work / are loved will become a normal talent in the talent Tree / something you learn from your class trainer). I mean it wouldn´t be something new (remember Artifact Weapons and similiar things) , hell they could even change the runs mid season with the prefix: "only applys to Items with ilvl X / only usable till lvl X"
To all of the complainers if you want no class changes go play Classic Era. There will be crazy unbalanced classes and bugs, but I'll take that any day to get the feeling Vanilla gave me 19 years ago discovering things that aren't mapped out in 100+YT videos or wowhead
I feel that SOD is taking a step forward. The truth is, I'm tired of all companies continuing with the practice of nerfing instead of buffing to balance. Nerfing a character has a negative impact on the game's enjoyment, whereas buffing is the opposite. It could achieve balance and, at the same time, make the game more fun overall. Personally, I don't mind that other classes can also heal or tank, as it has always been a relatively scarce role. With this, we could form parties with classes that we wouldn't have thought of combining before. I think we'll have to play to see how these changes work out, but from my point of view, they look good.
Biggest issue for me is they are putting player power behind what is supposed to be a fun exploration element. If I know I want to be using my cool ability that means I’m going to look up online how to get it as fast as possible and not wait to run across it naturally.
These items are now part of your toolkit to be compete.
It's not what I want, but the idea is growing on me. Main worry is that the old Blizzard is long gone and I don't think the current Blizzard are capable of deliving a vanila style product. Classic plus should be more classic style content, not this.
I think the whole point is they are making a lot of changes to see what works to pull into Classic+ real after SOD. Obviously the real world changes they do will still come
They keep calling these “level up raids” I would imagine they give large XP so it’s worth to do it while normally leveling up. Not just grinding at 25
You’re asking for new leveling dungeons and zones that’s exactly what they are doing here with the leveling band approach…
You pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly.
I definitely feel what you were saying about being on the fence and a little apprehensive.
Idk, to me, my mental image of what Classic+ should be is Turtle WoW. Basically take vanilla, but change very very little about, but add a lot to it. Lots more quests added in certain zones, new level and end game zones, new dungeons and raids, etc. Instead, they are making drastic changes to the gameplay and more minimal additions as far as new content goes (like new zones, dungeons, etc.)
I'm not against it, but I don't see this being what I want out of Classic+ long term. It might be fun for a season, but at least personally, I don't think it's the main version of the game I would want to play. If this doesn't turn into a more permanent traditional version of Classic+ then in all likelihood I'll just find myself back on era servers.
I wouldn't mind if they removed a lot of pointless quests, and added a new type of temporary quests and exploration based quests. Autobalance to increase the rewards for being in unpopulated areas and then straight up autobalance the classes and talents. The less something is used, the powerful it gets.
I think a parallel can be made with d4. People wanted an option to skip the campaign, to just grind mobs. That could work for WoW as well, just make the mob grinding purposeful, like grinding materials for your crafting or whatever.
Call me an optimist, but I don't see people disliking season of discovery, especially once they realize it's NOT a "Season" or "League", Blizz really fucked up with that word...They are going to be level-progression servers all the way to 60 over the course of like...6+ months? Letting us experience ALL Classic has to offer, rather than just rushing to end game, doing 1 new raid, then quitting. It's going to be FRESH like we've never seen before.
Mark me in the excited camp and can't wait to see where it goes.
Raids should have a version for every 10 levels. So a level 20 raid should also have a level 30 40 50 and 60 version of it. Same looking gear except expanded upon with scaling appropriate to the level. This would keep any raid content relevant at basically any level while expanding gear choice.
The new low level raids need to have something in them to farm even beyond the lvl cap at the time, maybe leveling runes or fragments for a potential raid attunement? Pretty sure lvl 60 could solo the 25 ones easy or maybe they make it scale to level cap. That would be pretty cool, like a heroic or something.