Bruv that's a job for the people without smooth brains. voiDude is your designated boarder, just get him there and he'll take care of the rest with his CQB railgun.
Gate camping was totally a thing in Eve online. Part of the planning when plotting your routes. Of course when in high-sec systems, it wasn’t just a CS you got, NPC ships showed up to kill you in you did anything illegal
Comparison to EVE online here. They have gatecamping too. Maybe they implement an "invulnarability period after jump"? Taking EVE as an example; after crossing a gate, you stay invisible to other players for 30 seconds (or whatever, idk exact number), be it magic or radio interference because of the gate functions. In that time window, you select destination, align and get the h3ll out of the area. There's a certain timecrunch here because aligning a big freighter takes time. Make it interesting if alignment of a freighter would take 45 secs and you need at least 10 secs to select destination, leaving you vulnarable for half a minute in which you can get sniped.... or not… (and these are just random numbers, but it is a system to make it exciting and survivable) In my mind that shouldn't be to hard to do, because all it is is an addition of certain timers to events and actions, which are already present in the game-software. just my 2 cents ;-)
Why are people upset? 1. CIGs initial attempt at describing how jump points would work was just too complicated for some smoother brains with short attention spans to comprehend. And it was also shit. 2. The design is shit from a game play point of view. It's clear CIG wanted to push cargo runners into a vulnerable position. They probably saw a video on TH-cam about funneling players or some shit to make piracy better. 3. When CIG got push back on that. They panicked like they always do and went into damage control mode. So now we can suddenly fly around in pew pew mode while we're waiting to jump? Which just begs the question of just how long does it take to get permission to jump? 4. The design is another time sink on top of far too many time sinks in the game already. Everything in SC is a waiting game. Including moving from A to B. The player base has made it abundantly clear they're really tired of this approach and they want the game to be more dynamic. As in actually dynamic. Not dynamic event, dynamic, which is not actually dynamic at all. CIG has not listened. Maybe they just don't actually know what dynamic means. 5. For the players who care about the in game lore and the immersions. The removal of the actual jump ring, (which CIG did for aesthetic reasons), coupled with the retention of ATC involvement in the jump process doesn't make sense. And CIGs excuses just aren't selling well. They claim it's about border control. Except they run Xenothreat relentlessly. So how tightly controlled is that border? If space is a Swiss cheese of jump points, why'd it take humanity so long to find them? If you want to sell a game based on the immersive experience. Then that game has to agree with itself. It needs to be internally consistent. And it's just not. Yes the game is still in "alpha" in year 12, rapidly heading for year 13. But at this point I feel that's just not an excuse. While I can understand something like server meshing is really complicated and hard to do. ALL MMO titles rely on server meshing of some description and CIG should have this nailed down by now. At a bare minimum, the high level game design should be set in stone. And it doesn't seem to be. They don't even have the space combat WWII pew pew mechanic sorted. Weapons aren't balanced. Components aren't balanced. Basic physics like ships having actual mass so they don't blow around in a light breeze are still MIA. New ships continue to be insanely OP only to be nerfed just before the next ship sale. Everything still seems to be up in the air and we don't really know what we bought yet. All of which isn't a good place to be going into year 13.
As a partial answer to point number 5... "If space is a Swiss cheese of jump points, why'd it take humanity so long to find them?" “Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.” ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
@@aikiwolfie Jet travel (air travel in general, really) did not make the world smaller. That's just a metaphor used to describe the reduction in travel time between two points on the globe. The distance between Great Britain and the Dominican Republic is still 2000 miles. Flying between them only exposed that line of travel to observation. Planes have flown over the Amazon since the 1930s, but until satellites, there were thousands of square miles that were never flown over, let alone photographed. Jump points are supposed to be small (relatively), and hard to find. Your sensors and Q Drive have to be set to read and cause them, respectively, and they only do that at fairly close range. QT isn't FTL. We travel at a measurable fraction of the speed of light, but we haven't broken that limit in SC.
@@aikiwolfie By Nick Croshaw in 2271, according to the Galactapedia. He was researching the Nesso Triangle trying to figure out why ships were disappearing.
I would like to see it to where up to the point where you can call ATC it's a open zone. Once you call ATC. That will then allow you to enter the pushback zone to queue up for the jump. Keep it straight simple! 😙
If they are only implementing these UEE controlled jump points, then I think you should spawn into that 100km area. When they introduce the transient jump points, that is when it could shot gun you into random locations across the entire system. So pirates could head through that to pyro to escape stanton when they have a crimestat, but they will have no idea where they come through into Pyro. So if they have buddies, they may spawn into Pyro on the opposite side of the system. With how big Pyro is, that could cause issues getting to them to regroup and getting them to the AO due to fuel reserves and stuff. That will be fun and it provides emergent gameplay. They have shown static server meshing. I am shocked we do not have them in game yet. Use multiple servers for each LZ. Split the hangars up between a couple servers. Then a server for the people inside the building. Then a server or 2 for each moon. Then a server for the empty space in that planet system. Do that for each of the planets in stanton. A server or 2 for each Lagrange point. Then split up the dead space between each orbit of the planets between another server or 2. Lets say 12 servers for the Hurston system. If and when 500 people from all the servers try to meet up in that single server empty space, that server would gate keep and put you in a queue to enter. Or just let it crash and redistribute the players to other servers as close to that location as possible.
You will not be 10s of km away from your friend. You have multiple locations to where you can arrive as a group (aka close to one another), “shotgun stuff” is just their half ass way to explain that you won’t rear end each other on exit (slight divergence around 1km)
The way I understand it is you are shotguned out all together within the 100km² zone at hopefully a random point within that space. And ships are just spread out enough at the end so there is no risk of crashing. If there are only limited end points it's going to be far more easily camped
@@PursauntYapper Yeah, I think people aren't understanding how big an area that 100km is or the number of people that would need to camp it in order to make it effective. I'm sure CIG has an algorithm for picking out a point within that 100km and then they use that point as the origin for the jump group's spawn radius (which would distribute ships in the shotgun approach to prevent ramming each other). So even though the jump group could arrive anywhere within the 100km zone, the group itself will all be within 10km of each other.
at any point where you gotta park your ship to do something, expect a camping murder hobo to ruin your day, that's the game we all signed up for some day
I really wish we, as a community, can start establishing a line between greifing and legitimate gameplay. Piracy, thuggery, theft, radicalist idealogy, gang wars, etc all exist within the game. In the long run if CIG want a jump point to be secure they need to have in game systems such as UEE/security presence at a location, not a gimmicky foce field that pushes away the baddies. I want to play through all sides of a jump point ambush. I want to pirate there, I want to be pirated there, I want to ambush there and be ambushed. That's fun gameplay. I feel like they are gimmicking things to give a certain group protection. Instead we need systems to incentivize/de-incentivize certain gameplay. And piracy, theft, or pure chaotic murder are all legit gameplay in a sandbox universe the size of 2+ solar systems.
@@crispy9175 I have no idea how it ended up with your comment. It was an answer to one comment made by @aikiwolfie in his list of 5. Sorry, 'bout that. I agree with your statement, but we'll have to wait until CIG gets all that working before we can drop the mystical force bubble of protection.
@@Challenge72 TH-cam has a bad habit of dropping comments in the wrong place. I get it. And yeah, I'm afraid that when those systems are in place they won't drop the magical forcefield thing though. I really wanted SC to be a sandbox with systemic rules and solutions to gameplay instead of hand-wavium magic walls and bags of holding. We'll see what they do in the future.
Pyro shouldve been the new prison location so whenever u got caught as a pirate , you get ya ass shot back to pyro lol. And have a hard eay to get back to stanton
This "Pirate Logistics" style trash was a semi-satisfying diversion from the usual flotsam and jetsam that unceasingly falls off of this channel. I think you have a flair for making spatial concepts accessible to handsome viewers as well as the ugly ones, and giving every variety of wackjob in SC a name, just like all the good (and bad) ships have, and that means something. What that is exactly, I'm not sure, but what I am sure is that I derive enjoyment from wasting my quality time watching this. Thank you!
If that wasn't intended as extended-form satire I don't know that I'd do that format again. I'm not sure if I got what you were saying correctly but if people w/a CS can't use the jump point then that's a pretty poor design choice, especially for going to and from Pyro, and it's only been recently that I've heard that we'll have to queue up for the damn thing; that's also less than optimal. I do think randomly exiting somewhere around the sun is an equitable solution that would make for some interesting gameplay. I don't agree with your take that we shouldn't "hate" on pirates, etc. because it's part of the game. People that make shitty choices (in whatever context) get to live with the shitty consequences - if it's part of the game to make those choices then that person is agreeing to live with the heat they get for it, which is also part of the game. Nobody, in any context, is accepting of piracy, mugging, thievery, or random sociopathic assaults for the lolz, so they're not going to suddenly be ok with it because "it's just a game, bro". But since piracy *is* part of the game, if they're going to have a hard AZ then there should be some way to disrupt it, akin to taking out Comm Arrays - or at least have the QT points into the area some distance from the AZ. Having a safe, coddled experience going into and out of a "lawless" system makes no sense at all. I get they probably feel they have to do it so they can work out what works and what doesn't in this new feature, but CIG has a tendency to dig into these kinds of choices, not to backtrack to the fork to take up the other option. If you think about it in terms of their plans for reputation, then this whole approach makes even less sense. Where do they draw the line? We don't allow convicted sex offenders within 500M of a school (their reputation precedes them), but you can't stop them from going to a grocery store or even a bar in most cases. If the gate itself is such a security risk that the military has to have a lock down on it, why have it open at all? Why allow people to use it, since they know that people would rarely go there for legal purposes? Entrenched poor choices lead to worse choices down the line. Hopefully they can reason this out, but CIG always feels like they are very slowly flying by the seat of their pants.
I personally think, they will phase out hard armistices, and have soft armistices, because you need to facilitate Bounty Hunting 2.0 and the ability to melee and disarm a target and then restrain them for transport to security facilities.
They've shown some spiffy ways of using bounty hunting weapons in the cities a long way back , I imagine once NPCs at towns are viable for defending the town, armistices will poof
I love ho you spent the first 10 minutes basically explaining how stargates in Eve Online work 🤣 Really don't want another game where you fly around for ages not finding anything to do, jump to a new system and get insta-killed by a gate camp
@@itsnotphair well if it aint the main man, I was also in the same srvr as you the other day dont know if you remember, you sent me 69 credits as compensation.
I would think an area of about 5.2 million cubic Km would be a large enough hunting ground for a pirate. You want them to send us somewhere in the system randomly? Yeah, no, thanks. ;-{ That would, in effect, destroy most interstellar trade profits; meaning fewer haulers trying it; meaning less food for pirates. Traders couldn't plan routes, and would never have a clue of their surroundings -- way too much risk to be worth the trip. The 100 km diameter bubble may sound intimidating, or restrictive(?), but most weapons won't threaten space that far out from the jump point, and the navy can't patrol everywhere. You'll add to your crime stat, but your risk of being interdicted is about the same as your chance of interdicting incoming jumpers. Much better risk management for the haulers to work with. This seems to be a good direction to add to your videos -- at least for me.
All great points. The way they described the end point seems like disc not a sphere. If the end points are totally random over that area it's a decently large area to cover but odds are more end points will be located closer into the middle. You could have 3 Mantis with a 20km bubble each spaced around the zone and you will hit like 70% of the ships coming out and often outside that range you would be detected by the gigantic signal from the QT charge. Very easy at that point to close in on any target outside the range before their QT cools down enough for another jump.
@@PursauntYapper Why wouldn't they use a sphere? It's 3D space and they know it. If anything, they might reduce some areas of the sphere that coincide with the system's plane so that people arriving by QT travel are less likely to intersect people arriving by jump tunnel. They also likely will have an exclusion sphere that is a minimum distance from the station and jump point so that ships don't arrive to close where there is high traffic.
@@Tsudico it would make sense if it was a sphere but it doesn't sound like it from the description. If it does it's going to be shallow dispersion like OM markers ECT.
@@PursauntYapper Where in their description has any sort of shape been indicated? Just because they use the term area doesn't necessarily mean that there is any shape associated with it. While it might be more technically accurate to state volume for 3D coordinate space, I have often seen it referred to as area as well. Limiting it to two dimensions doesn't make sense in a game where they have specifically allowed players to maneuver their ships with 6 degrees of freedom. I also don't agree with your idea that it will be shallow due to OM markers. OM markers were specifically designed to use the minimal amount (6 in an octahedron configuration) with as small of bounds they could to keep you close to the object they are around. That isn't the design constraints for what the jump point exit will require. Instead, they want something that reduces the possibility of camping while still allowing for pirates to have game play if they are smart about it which lends itself better to larger spaces. I can easily define a sphere and use polar coordinates that are randomly determined to place a point on the surface of that sphere. It would be trivial to make sure that any two consecutive points are not close to each other based on the polar coordinates alone. I could also think of a system using a cube where one x,y,z value is changed randomly and one of them has their sign flipped just to make sure it is far enough away from the previous exit. Here again size works to shrink the risk of pirates because it is area that has to be covered. Those ideas didn't take that long to figure out so I am sure the people actually designing it have had more time to think of possible issues with the approaches. How large or coordinated of a group would need to exist to cover a space if it was a 100km sphere (or cube)? It is one thing to say that only 3 Mantis with a 20km interdiction radius could cover the area, but you've not shown any math to back it up. If those Mantis were too close to the station, then the station defenses could possibly get them or the UEE could be called in to respond so they would have to be beyond the radar range.
@@Tsudico you are totally right I agree with you all those things are easily implemented. And they could possibly have say 20+ end points in that sphere it randomly selects from. It really all depends on the % chance or ease of allowing interdictions. Obviously with something like that it takes more pirates to control the full area but might be able to catch 10% of the traffic or whatever. All numbers are just BS theory till we have actual data. The 3 ships covering the area of course are not getting 100% coverage but if each are spread 30km or so apart from each other it's a fair amount. And saying the chance of more ships appearing closer to the middle is just normal distribution, the bell curve you will get with dice or a random number.
If jumping gets too difficult folk just wont do it. As yet there's been very little shown as to what Pyro offers that isn't just a feeding frenzy of gun play which oddly enough probably isn't attractive to all (and perhaps not as attractive as CIG thinks, jury's out on that). Pirates dont wnat to pirate other pirates who also have nothing. So, please show us the "stuff" that makes it worth folk having a cargo.
I believe the devs already planned for server meshing to include multiple servers per system. Remember that they did a public server meshing test a few months back in Stanton, and each individual planet and moon had their own server. And it apparently went very very well. But this being CIG, I'm sure they are fully capable of somehow taking something that works and making it worse, lol. Pretty sure that transient jump points will be in game from the get go. Otherwise, it punishes criminal players by preventing them ever getting into Pyro, the criminals paradise. Plus, everyone's favorite 'legal gameplay' ship is also an explorer, so they may even have an edge in handling those transient points. As for griefing, if you ask me, I think they should give different punishments for incapping and straight murder. Pirate a ship and incap the pilot, get a crime stat 3. After all, they can still call for rescue afterwards. Flat out murder someone and they should get a crime stat 14 quazillion-trillion and get stuck in Klescher for several real life days. I mean, people get life for murder in real life, so a week in game isn't that bad, right? ;)
As far as I understand they will have some kind of protection on both sides of the gate and the temporary unstable jump points if you want to not deal with the UEE (if you have a crime stat etc and want to jump to pyro).
I'm always kinda disappointed when I hear/see "Armistice", cus I figured that by now we'd be seeing those areas getting relaxed into High-Sec zones like we were promised 10+ years ago. As a filthy casual with 2.31 billion hours over the last 11 years, I mostly play solo, and yeah, being constantly murderhobo'd is ass, but Armistice is a shit solution because, as mentioned, as often as not it just gets abused, and gets in the way of legitimate gameplay, rather than serving it's intended purpose; an old saying goes "locks only stop honest people" CIG, plz, get on it, not just to let us punch the NPCs (including the human ones) that piss us off in stations and cities.
I don't think enough SC players play enough mmos with fullloot, from FOXHOLE to Mortal Online 2. If we use eve online for an understanding of 3d space thing eve wormhole not eve gate. Too many eve references are literally starter hi sec experiences even if they're in 0.0 space. Heck eve lowsec faction warfare is probably closest to how star citizen will work more so than eve null sec with jib bridges, titan launchers, worm hole chains and moving 10,000 hrs of player industrial work across 3hrs of real time travel -- through she corps... blah blah eve logistics. Tl;dr star citizen jump gates will work either like foxhole and crossing a hex or eve lowsecfaction ware/ wormhole gameplay. No nullsec no high sec.
I still don’t understand how/why the UEE has the ability to enforce laws in a completely lawless system, I get Stanton’s border being manned and having a large security presence but I don’t understand how they have any authority in pyros system, like what’s preventing a large gang from overpowering and taking control of the jump point from pyros side?
They have enough power to enforce laws near and around the jump points to their controlled systems however not the power to monitor the whole system. Kind of like and embassy or a FOB. The US navy is able to enforce laws around the US in the ocean however, the ocean is a relatively lawless place. The thing stopping a large gang from doing it is it would be a declaration of war. The UEE barely cares about pyro but attack them and kill their guys and damage their stuff then they have to care and will take over pyro
I'm a murder hobo that enjoys stealing the spoils of death. I don't see myself hanging around a jump point. Sounds boring, and I don't take joy from attacking people jumping through a gate...too easy. I like a good fight. I guess I'm just an in game serial killer lol
imagine GIC and CR of all people being nerds and playing eve online and thinking holy shit balls this game is GUUUUD.. then reading the forums of a buch of whiny ass minecraft playing carebares lol.. Fact is they are tyring to make jump gates at least FAIR for the main places to go.. im sure in the future ( ill be long dead by then lol ) we will get gate campers and rightly so!! becuase why bother having orgs if you have NOTHING to defend or have taken? some people are just whiny arseclowns. omg i died in a game whaa waaaa waa. here is a tip .. dont play games where you die and you wont DIE .. not rocket science is it.. let alone in a game that is fkn alpha lol. This is like the zillionth version of flying.. i gave up flying the first time they changed it.. because bet ya arse they will do it again. Lots of things change in this game.. just go with flow or play summit els.. it aint that hard is it? lol. cya in the verse voidy o7.. and keep up the vids mate. oh forgot to metion on the eve vibe.. imagine logging into eve and it had 1.0 and the next system was nullsec yeh GG lol.. we neeeeed more systems for sure.
Dude. If at the end of the jump between systems you could end up anywhere in the system that would be the WORST possible way to do this! It would make piracy at the gates literally impossible! I get you may not want "ganking "all the time but it won't always do that. But you all are literally talking crap that will out right remove gameplay from the game. Just stop!
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Teaser] | 05-12-24](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P5Uto6e453w/mqdefault.jpg)
Voidy not knowing mantis ranges also hurts my soul
Go to University of Stanton or literally any other channel for numbers that are
not made up on the spot. Sorry guys, rushed video :P
@@VoidyVids you are forgiven, but my soul still hurts
Bruv that's a job for the people without smooth brains. voiDude is your designated boarder, just get him there and he'll take care of the rest with his CQB railgun.
“Thank you for coming to my trash talk” 😂 Space Tomato eat your heart out
CIG keeps saying they're limited by tech. In reality, they're just terrible at game design lmao
Fun video, a nice branch for your content
Finally, I understand the difference between degradation and stability. Those are the best graphs I've ever seen. Thanks Voidy.
Gate camping was totally a thing in Eve online. Part of the planning when plotting your routes. Of course when in high-sec systems, it wasn’t just a CS you got, NPC ships showed up to kill you in you did anything illegal
Your circles not connecting hurt my soul
There was a video on this subject and there will be jump points that connects to the main jump point and they skip the main they are ment for pirates
Peak cargo packing but left the dragon fly belly up 😂
@@V1king92 let sleeping dragonflies lie...
Comparison to EVE online here. They have gatecamping too.
Maybe they implement an "invulnarability period after jump"?
Taking EVE as an example; after crossing a gate, you stay invisible to other players for 30 seconds
(or whatever, idk exact number), be it magic or radio interference because of the gate functions.
In that time window, you select destination, align and get the h3ll out of the area.
There's a certain timecrunch here because aligning a big freighter takes time.
Make it interesting if alignment of a freighter would take 45 secs and you need at least 10 secs to select destination, leaving you vulnarable for half a minute in which you can get sniped....
or not…
(and these are just random numbers, but it is a system to make it exciting and survivable)
In my mind that shouldn't be to hard to do, because all it is is an addition of certain timers to events and actions, which are already present in the game-software.
just my 2 cents ;-)
4.0 will not be out until 2025 (if we are lucky)
Yeah it will be broken up. We will not be getting full 4.0 in 2024.
Why are people upset?
1. CIGs initial attempt at describing how jump points would work was just too complicated for some smoother brains with short attention spans to comprehend. And it was also shit.
2. The design is shit from a game play point of view. It's clear CIG wanted to push cargo runners into a vulnerable position. They probably saw a video on TH-cam about funneling players or some shit to make piracy better.
3. When CIG got push back on that. They panicked like they always do and went into damage control mode. So now we can suddenly fly around in pew pew mode while we're waiting to jump? Which just begs the question of just how long does it take to get permission to jump?
4. The design is another time sink on top of far too many time sinks in the game already. Everything in SC is a waiting game. Including moving from A to B. The player base has made it abundantly clear they're really tired of this approach and they want the game to be more dynamic. As in actually dynamic. Not dynamic event, dynamic, which is not actually dynamic at all. CIG has not listened. Maybe they just don't actually know what dynamic means.
5. For the players who care about the in game lore and the immersions. The removal of the actual jump ring, (which CIG did for aesthetic reasons), coupled with the retention of ATC involvement in the jump process doesn't make sense. And CIGs excuses just aren't selling well. They claim it's about border control. Except they run Xenothreat relentlessly. So how tightly controlled is that border? If space is a Swiss cheese of jump points, why'd it take humanity so long to find them?
If you want to sell a game based on the immersive experience. Then that game has to agree with itself. It needs to be internally consistent. And it's just not.
Yes the game is still in "alpha" in year 12, rapidly heading for year 13. But at this point I feel that's just not an excuse. While I can understand something like server meshing is really complicated and hard to do. ALL MMO titles rely on server meshing of some description and CIG should have this nailed down by now.
At a bare minimum, the high level game design should be set in stone. And it doesn't seem to be. They don't even have the space combat WWII pew pew mechanic sorted. Weapons aren't balanced. Components aren't balanced. Basic physics like ships having actual mass so they don't blow around in a light breeze are still MIA. New ships continue to be insanely OP only to be nerfed just before the next ship sale. Everything still seems to be up in the air and we don't really know what we bought yet. All of which isn't a good place to be going into year 13.
As a partial answer to point number 5... "If space is a Swiss cheese of jump points, why'd it take humanity so long to find them?"
“Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
@@Challenge72 space is big. But just like jet travel made the globe a lot smaller. So should FTL.
@@aikiwolfie Jet travel (air travel in general, really) did not make the world smaller. That's just a metaphor used to describe the reduction in travel time between two points on the globe. The distance between Great Britain and the Dominican Republic is still 2000 miles.
Flying between them only exposed that line of travel to observation. Planes have flown over the Amazon since the 1930s, but until satellites, there were thousands of square miles that were never flown over, let alone photographed.
Jump points are supposed to be small (relatively), and hard to find. Your sensors and Q Drive have to be set to read and cause them, respectively, and they only do that at fairly close range. QT isn't FTL. We travel at a measurable fraction of the speed of light, but we haven't broken that limit in SC.
@@Challenge72 sure. What is the lore on how jump points were discovered?
@@aikiwolfie By Nick Croshaw in 2271, according to the Galactapedia. He was researching the Nesso Triangle trying to figure out why ships were disappearing.
Thumbs up just for the intro!
nothing like locking the grid with a box to put more boxes, like a true corsair owner.
I would like to see it to where up to the point where you can call ATC it's a open zone. Once you call ATC. That will then allow you to enter the pushback zone to queue up for the jump. Keep it straight simple! 😙
Voidy was unbeknownst, drawing beewbs.
Read the description :p
lol i was thinking they are some odd looking tits to scroll down and see this comment LOL :D
@@VoidyVids Unbeknownst to his viewers. Voidy was drawing bweebs.
@@VoidyVids my nipples are also jump points
If they are only implementing these UEE controlled jump points, then I think you should spawn into that 100km area. When they introduce the transient jump points, that is when it could shot gun you into random locations across the entire system. So pirates could head through that to pyro to escape stanton when they have a crimestat, but they will have no idea where they come through into Pyro. So if they have buddies, they may spawn into Pyro on the opposite side of the system. With how big Pyro is, that could cause issues getting to them to regroup and getting them to the AO due to fuel reserves and stuff. That will be fun and it provides emergent gameplay.
They have shown static server meshing. I am shocked we do not have them in game yet. Use multiple servers for each LZ. Split the hangars up between a couple servers. Then a server for the people inside the building. Then a server or 2 for each moon. Then a server for the empty space in that planet system. Do that for each of the planets in stanton. A server or 2 for each Lagrange point. Then split up the dead space between each orbit of the planets between another server or 2. Lets say 12 servers for the Hurston system. If and when 500 people from all the servers try to meet up in that single server empty space, that server would gate keep and put you in a queue to enter. Or just let it crash and redistribute the players to other servers as close to that location as possible.
The hopium 🤣
You will not be 10s of km away from your friend. You have multiple locations to where you can arrive as a group (aka close to one another), “shotgun stuff” is just their half ass way to explain that you won’t rear end each other on exit (slight divergence around 1km)
The way I understand it is you are shotguned out all together within the 100km² zone at hopefully a random point within that space.
And ships are just spread out enough at the end so there is no risk of crashing.
If there are only limited end points it's going to be far more easily camped
@@PursauntYapper Yeah, I think people aren't understanding how big an area that 100km is or the number of people that would need to camp it in order to make it effective. I'm sure CIG has an algorithm for picking out a point within that 100km and then they use that point as the origin for the jump group's spawn radius (which would distribute ships in the shotgun approach to prevent ramming each other). So even though the jump group could arrive anywhere within the 100km zone, the group itself will all be within 10km of each other.
"A much gooder job" xD
I see voidy has been sniffing the can of hopium a bit too hard again 😂
at any point where you gotta park your ship to do something, expect a camping murder hobo to ruin your day, that's the game we all signed up for some day
I really wish we, as a community, can start establishing a line between greifing and legitimate gameplay. Piracy, thuggery, theft, radicalist idealogy, gang wars, etc all exist within the game. In the long run if CIG want a jump point to be secure they need to have in game systems such as UEE/security presence at a location, not a gimmicky foce field that pushes away the baddies. I want to play through all sides of a jump point ambush. I want to pirate there, I want to be pirated there, I want to ambush there and be ambushed. That's fun gameplay. I feel like they are gimmicking things to give a certain group protection. Instead we need systems to incentivize/de-incentivize certain gameplay. And piracy, theft, or pure chaotic murder are all legit gameplay in a sandbox universe the size of 2+ solar systems.
@@Challenge72 ? I like the quotes but did you reply to the wrong comment?
@@crispy9175 I have no idea how it ended up with your comment. It was an answer to one comment made by @aikiwolfie in his list of 5. Sorry, 'bout that.
I agree with your statement, but we'll have to wait until CIG gets all that working before we can drop the mystical force bubble of protection.
@@Challenge72 TH-cam has a bad habit of dropping comments in the wrong place. I get it.
And yeah, I'm afraid that when those systems are in place they won't drop the magical forcefield thing though. I really wanted SC to be a sandbox with systemic rules and solutions to gameplay instead of hand-wavium magic walls and bags of holding. We'll see what they do in the future.
Pyro shouldve been the new prison location so whenever u got caught as a pirate , you get ya ass shot back to pyro lol. And have a hard eay to get back to stanton
Still a great format...
I think they need to establish some baseline items before they make it more sandboxy
my wife left me after I spent our savings on a fcking jpeg
Deserved
This "Pirate Logistics" style trash was a semi-satisfying diversion from the usual flotsam and jetsam that unceasingly falls off of this channel. I think you have a flair for making spatial concepts accessible to handsome viewers as well as the ugly ones, and giving every variety of wackjob in SC a name, just like all the good (and bad) ships have, and that means something. What that is exactly, I'm not sure, but what I am sure is that I derive enjoyment from wasting my quality time watching this. Thank you!
If that wasn't intended as extended-form satire I don't know that I'd do that format again.
I'm not sure if I got what you were saying correctly but if people w/a CS can't use the jump point then that's a pretty poor design choice, especially for going to and from Pyro, and it's only been recently that I've heard that we'll have to queue up for the damn thing; that's also less than optimal. I do think randomly exiting somewhere around the sun is an equitable solution that would make for some interesting gameplay.
I don't agree with your take that we shouldn't "hate" on pirates, etc. because it's part of the game. People that make shitty choices (in whatever context) get to live with the shitty consequences - if it's part of the game to make those choices then that person is agreeing to live with the heat they get for it, which is also part of the game. Nobody, in any context, is accepting of piracy, mugging, thievery, or random sociopathic assaults for the lolz, so they're not going to suddenly be ok with it because "it's just a game, bro".
But since piracy *is* part of the game, if they're going to have a hard AZ then there should be some way to disrupt it, akin to taking out Comm Arrays - or at least have the QT points into the area some distance from the AZ.
Having a safe, coddled experience going into and out of a "lawless" system makes no sense at all.
I get they probably feel they have to do it so they can work out what works and what doesn't in this new feature, but CIG has a tendency to dig into these kinds of choices, not to backtrack to the fork to take up the other option.
If you think about it in terms of their plans for reputation, then this whole approach makes even less sense. Where do they draw the line? We don't allow convicted sex offenders within 500M of a school (their reputation precedes them), but you can't stop them from going to a grocery store or even a bar in most cases.
If the gate itself is such a security risk that the military has to have a lock down on it, why have it open at all? Why allow people to use it, since they know that people would rarely go there for legal purposes?
Entrenched poor choices lead to worse choices down the line. Hopefully they can reason this out, but CIG always feels like they are very slowly flying by the seat of their pants.
AFTER Day One, camping might still be a thing, but it will become increasingly difficult
I personally think, they will phase out hard armistices, and have soft armistices, because you need to facilitate Bounty Hunting 2.0 and the ability to melee and disarm a target and then restrain them for transport to security facilities.
They've shown some spiffy ways of using bounty hunting weapons in the cities a long way back , I imagine once NPCs at towns are viable for defending the town, armistices will poof
I love ho you spent the first 10 minutes basically explaining how stargates in Eve Online work 🤣
Really don't want another game where you fly around for ages not finding anything to do, jump to a new system and get insta-killed by a gate camp
itsnot_phair and you voidy took all my loot on my first day about a year ago then made me watch my ship getting blown up.
☹😭
Thanks for your stuff.
A little mild hazing.. you’re probably a pirate yourself now a year later! 😂
Watch him do it again ;)
He's entraining about it, at least. And polite.
@@itsnotphair well if it aint the main man, I was also in the same srvr as you the other day dont know if you remember, you sent me 69 credits as compensation.
I would think an area of about 5.2 million cubic Km would be a large enough hunting ground for a pirate. You want them to send us somewhere in the system randomly? Yeah, no, thanks. ;-{ That would, in effect, destroy most interstellar trade profits; meaning fewer haulers trying it; meaning less food for pirates. Traders couldn't plan routes, and would never have a clue of their surroundings -- way too much risk to be worth the trip.
The 100 km diameter bubble may sound intimidating, or restrictive(?), but most weapons won't threaten space that far out from the jump point, and the navy can't patrol everywhere. You'll add to your crime stat, but your risk of being interdicted is about the same as your chance of interdicting incoming jumpers. Much better risk management for the haulers to work with.
This seems to be a good direction to add to your videos -- at least for me.
All great points.
The way they described the end point seems like disc not a sphere.
If the end points are totally random over that area it's a decently large area to cover but odds are more end points will be located closer into the middle.
You could have 3 Mantis with a 20km bubble each spaced around the zone and you will hit like 70% of the ships coming out and often outside that range you would be detected by the gigantic signal from the QT charge.
Very easy at that point to close in on any target outside the range before their QT cools down enough for another jump.
@@PursauntYapper Why wouldn't they use a sphere? It's 3D space and they know it. If anything, they might reduce some areas of the sphere that coincide with the system's plane so that people arriving by QT travel are less likely to intersect people arriving by jump tunnel. They also likely will have an exclusion sphere that is a minimum distance from the station and jump point so that ships don't arrive to close where there is high traffic.
@@Tsudico it would make sense if it was a sphere but it doesn't sound like it from the description.
If it does it's going to be shallow dispersion like OM markers ECT.
@@PursauntYapper Where in their description has any sort of shape been indicated? Just because they use the term area doesn't necessarily mean that there is any shape associated with it. While it might be more technically accurate to state volume for 3D coordinate space, I have often seen it referred to as area as well. Limiting it to two dimensions doesn't make sense in a game where they have specifically allowed players to maneuver their ships with 6 degrees of freedom.
I also don't agree with your idea that it will be shallow due to OM markers. OM markers were specifically designed to use the minimal amount (6 in an octahedron configuration) with as small of bounds they could to keep you close to the object they are around. That isn't the design constraints for what the jump point exit will require. Instead, they want something that reduces the possibility of camping while still allowing for pirates to have game play if they are smart about it which lends itself better to larger spaces.
I can easily define a sphere and use polar coordinates that are randomly determined to place a point on the surface of that sphere. It would be trivial to make sure that any two consecutive points are not close to each other based on the polar coordinates alone. I could also think of a system using a cube where one x,y,z value is changed randomly and one of them has their sign flipped just to make sure it is far enough away from the previous exit. Here again size works to shrink the risk of pirates because it is area that has to be covered. Those ideas didn't take that long to figure out so I am sure the people actually designing it have had more time to think of possible issues with the approaches.
How large or coordinated of a group would need to exist to cover a space if it was a 100km sphere (or cube)? It is one thing to say that only 3 Mantis with a 20km interdiction radius could cover the area, but you've not shown any math to back it up. If those Mantis were too close to the station, then the station defenses could possibly get them or the UEE could be called in to respond so they would have to be beyond the radar range.
@@Tsudico you are totally right I agree with you all those things are easily implemented.
And they could possibly have say 20+ end points in that sphere it randomly selects from.
It really all depends on the % chance or ease of allowing interdictions.
Obviously with something like that it takes more pirates to control the full area but might be able to catch 10% of the traffic or whatever. All numbers are just BS theory till we have actual data.
The 3 ships covering the area of course are not getting 100% coverage but if each are spread 30km or so apart from each other it's a fair amount.
And saying the chance of more ships appearing closer to the middle is just normal distribution, the bell curve you will get with dice or a random number.
If jumping gets too difficult folk just wont do it. As yet there's been very little shown as to what Pyro offers that isn't just a feeding frenzy of gun play which oddly enough probably isn't attractive to all (and perhaps not as attractive as CIG thinks, jury's out on that). Pirates dont wnat to pirate other pirates who also have nothing. So, please show us the "stuff" that makes it worth folk having a cargo.
I believe the devs already planned for server meshing to include multiple servers per system. Remember that they did a public server meshing test a few months back in Stanton, and each individual planet and moon had their own server. And it apparently went very very well. But this being CIG, I'm sure they are fully capable of somehow taking something that works and making it worse, lol.
Pretty sure that transient jump points will be in game from the get go. Otherwise, it punishes criminal players by preventing them ever getting into Pyro, the criminals paradise. Plus, everyone's favorite 'legal gameplay' ship is also an explorer, so they may even have an edge in handling those transient points.
As for griefing, if you ask me, I think they should give different punishments for incapping and straight murder. Pirate a ship and incap the pilot, get a crime stat 3. After all, they can still call for rescue afterwards. Flat out murder someone and they should get a crime stat 14 quazillion-trillion and get stuck in Klescher for several real life days. I mean, people get life for murder in real life, so a week in game isn't that bad, right? ;)
transient jump points are confirmed to not be released in 4.0 unfortunately
@@stykefilmstudios4230 Really? Ugh.
"Low effort"?! Bro, you brought out the Paint skills and everything!
As far as I understand they will have some kind of protection on both sides of the gate and the temporary unstable jump points if you want to not deal with the UEE (if you have a crime stat etc and want to jump to pyro).
ive almost had a heartattack watchig this
I'm always kinda disappointed when I hear/see "Armistice", cus I figured that by now we'd be seeing those areas getting relaxed into High-Sec zones like we were promised 10+ years ago.
As a filthy casual with 2.31 billion hours over the last 11 years, I mostly play solo, and yeah, being constantly murderhobo'd is ass, but Armistice is a shit solution because, as mentioned, as often as not it just gets abused, and gets in the way of legitimate gameplay, rather than serving it's intended purpose; an old saying goes "locks only stop honest people"
CIG, plz, get on it, not just to let us punch the NPCs (including the human ones) that piss us off in stations and cities.
How does a fellow South African get on the South African pirate crew lol
I don't think enough SC players play enough mmos with fullloot, from FOXHOLE to Mortal Online 2. If we use eve online for an understanding of 3d space thing eve wormhole not eve gate. Too many eve references are literally starter hi sec experiences even if they're in 0.0 space. Heck eve lowsec faction warfare is probably closest to how star citizen will work more so than eve null sec with jib bridges, titan launchers, worm hole chains and moving 10,000 hrs of player industrial work across 3hrs of real time travel -- through she corps... blah blah eve logistics.
Tl;dr star citizen jump gates will work either like foxhole and crossing a hex or eve lowsecfaction ware/ wormhole gameplay. No nullsec no high sec.
Ram Armistis...lol
or take the 10 minutes to hack your CS then wreak havoc on the gateway with no CS.
there was the leaving early system where if you leave the tunnel early, you get shotgunned into a bigger area
"Much gooder" 🤔
I still don’t understand how/why the UEE has the ability to enforce laws in a completely lawless system, I get Stanton’s border being manned and having a large security presence but I don’t understand how they have any authority in pyros system, like what’s preventing a large gang from overpowering and taking control of the jump point from pyros side?
They have enough power to enforce laws near and around the jump points to their controlled systems however not the power to monitor the whole system. Kind of like and embassy or a FOB. The US navy is able to enforce laws around the US in the ocean however, the ocean is a relatively lawless place. The thing stopping a large gang from doing it is it would be a declaration of war. The UEE barely cares about pyro but attack them and kill their guys and damage their stuff then they have to care and will take over pyro
Totally. And this stupid system will BE very interessting when we get the vandull systems. Everywhere will now be Uee Border Control....
The same way any border checkpoint works
Why does everybody ape after Morphologis weird "STAAAAR-cittizzen" pronounciation?
bro is clamoring for views by click baiting HARD
Show me more pyro and stanton drawings hahaha
Maybe 8008 of then 😂
Emerging anywhere in the system will be a problem with fuel
I'm a murder hobo that enjoys stealing the spoils of death. I don't see myself hanging around a jump point. Sounds boring, and I don't take joy from attacking people jumping through a gate...too easy. I like a good fight. I guess I'm just an in game serial killer lol
4.0 Pyro Jump Point Gameplay: Haven't played it, but it is good or bad?
pointless speculative crap video about nothing
I can't wait for true server meshing, Thousands of people on the same server, what a beautiful mess that will be.
imagine GIC and CR of all people being nerds and playing eve online and thinking holy shit balls this game is GUUUUD.. then reading the forums of a buch of whiny ass minecraft playing carebares
lol.. Fact is they are tyring to make jump gates at least FAIR for the main places to go.. im sure in the future ( ill be long dead by then lol ) we will get gate campers and rightly so!! becuase why bother having orgs if you have NOTHING to defend or have taken?
some people are just whiny arseclowns. omg i died in a game whaa waaaa waa. here is a tip .. dont play games where you die and you wont DIE .. not rocket science is it.. let alone in a game that is fkn alpha lol. This is like the zillionth version of flying.. i gave up flying the first time they changed it.. because bet ya arse they will do it again. Lots of things change in this game.. just go with flow or play summit els.. it aint that hard is it? lol.
cya in the verse voidy o7.. and keep up the vids mate.
oh forgot to metion on the eve vibe.. imagine logging into eve and it had 1.0 and the next system was nullsec
yeh GG lol.. we neeeeed more systems for sure.
It's almost like you can tell the future here man. This is going to be some real fun. GrieferNet Victory
Dude. If at the end of the jump between systems you could end up anywhere in the system that would be the WORST possible way to do this! It would make piracy at the gates literally impossible! I get you may not want "ganking "all the time but it won't always do that. But you all are literally talking crap that will out right remove gameplay from the game. Just stop!