@@m.j.richmond6546 darn right. After about $20 million, it's just a number in the bank. with that amount of $, you can buy that private jet and yacht. maybe not a Gulfstream, but definitely a very nice craft for $3 million. Stewart is doing just fine. He's not making as much in royalties as Sting. But he's playing with a great band, Gizmodome, and doing what he wants in life.
I know that I've seen a few people say this, I'll say it here... without Stewart Copeland, the Police would NOT have had the same success at all. Sting owes this man his career. (Big time Sting and Police fan here)
Stewart Copeland has always blown my mind with his intellectual perspective. I work in different disciplines and what he is saying is so absolutely true.
Weird that nobody here is mentioning Frank Zappa. If there is one guy who did both it’s him. Zappa was a brilliant ear musician and a fantastic composer. He pushed Bozzio to be the best player he could be and he did this with all his musicians.
Well told. Zappa could write music on paper for whatever band he was leading at a given time but he also could improvise brilliantly. One of the most underrated guitar players in the history of rock
They did mention Zappa. Stewart says in the beginning to Bozzio, that Bozzio is badshit at reading musiccharts, and Terry replies, that he has read some black shit, referring to the Black Page written by Zappa.
They did! at 00:26, Bozzio says "...I played some black shit", reference to "the black page" by Zappa. The title came from the fact that the score was so full of notes that the page looked totally(almost) black. On a side note, Zappa admitted he was a terrible reader, and probably would have fail had he had to pass an audition to enter his own group.
Luk Schrijvers Yes but most Jazz musicians can read and obviously improvise. Many Jazz musicians started classical training then get side tracked to Jazz.
I don't care how many times a classical musician plays a certain piece- it always come out different. Master classes are about infusing life into a written phrase. I have a great admiration for symphony players, for , among other things, their tone and pitch production- outstanding. They are using their ears, believe me.
Sheet music is like "connect the dots". Some connect it with shaky lines, some with beautiful arches. We would only really know how Fur Elise was intended to be played if we could hear Beethoven play it. Never mind that when he was composing it, he was not writing at the desk but improvising at his piano.
I wish I could remember the band/song but I watched a new version of a rock song a few years back, done with the band, but with an orchestra backing. And it was so beautiful, and then the orchestra players start smiling and swaying as they played, and you could FEEL their energy through their playing. It is definitely more than just playing static notes off a page. Copeland sounded like an amateur spewing on here, to be honest. I get his passion, but don't be so passionate about flinging bullshit. And I'm just a guitar and vox rocker and can't read sheet music at all. Well except when I had to force myself to, to program the synth and keyboards from sheet music for a few songs. Aye, that was painful. I learned a lot. And forgot it all as soon as I was done.
I like listening to Stewart talk. I really appreciate that he doesn't dis either styles of musicians, but acknowledges one is better at doing this and the other is better at doing that. And I also like his humility acknowledging that while the kid out of music school can't rock, he's much faster at doing a music score. Would be awesome to be ambidexstrous in this regard!
The only time I have ever felt close to other human beings was when playing in an orchestra. When it all comes together the way it was intended, it is a beautiful feeling...
There two kinds of musicians the ones we hear and the ones were never going to hear. Growing up in a recording studio one of my saddest realizations was that there are some truly great musicians that we are never going to get to hear. Heartbreaker. Stewart did I meet you at the Avery Hotel through Meme?
I am both a musician of the ear and the eye. I have a degree in music but I've also played in several rock and cover bands over the years. When I see all the comments here saying that musicians of the eye have no soul or feeling, I think that is the insecurity and inferiority complex of non-trained musicians rearing it's head. If I've learned anything from playing with musicians who know nothing about theory, it's that a good number of them are insecurity about their lack of technical knowledge. In a way, they have to believe that their relationship with music is somehow superior to the guy who has spent his whole life engaged in the art of music and who's passion for it is so great that he was willing to spend his childhood, teen years, and adulthood engaged in musical development. Now don't get me wrong!!! There are many, many, many musicians who can't read who are phenomenal in their respective fields (rock, jazz, blues, etc.) but the notion that a trained musician is ultimately a useless automaton is absolutely is absurd. All of the great classical musicians, most of the great jazz players, most film score composers, and a decent number of Pop/Rock musicians are thoroughly trained in the technical aspects of music. Perhaps the majority of rock or blues or rap musicians are not but that is because technical prowess and theoretical understanding is unnecessary for those particular genres of music!!! The skill set is different. It's more improvisatory and loose. Most genres and styles of music are great and have their own types of brilliance. But I do reject this silly notion that trained musicians are incapable of expressing emotion. Tell that to Bach. To Debussy. To Miles Davis. To John Williams. To Frank Zappa. And so on. I hate to break it to you guys but there does exist a world outside of Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton solos and riffs. Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton type music and related styles of music is EPIC, yes. But let's not pretend that there isn't mountains of brilliant music across many other genres and fields
Yes. In early rock n roll, orchestra musicians only played anf lidtened to the classicd-or some did jazz. But, yes, they didn't rock. Maybe even didn't approve of rock n roll at all. But today, lots of kids in conservatories grew up loving and playing rock n roll. So they get both.
I really, really get this. I’m classically trained, though in the last few decades I’ve played way more rock than classical, but I’ve always been better with my ears than my eyes. Using the page helps with certain kinds of coordination, particularly polyphonic coordination, and it also helps with memory, particularly if the part is detailed. But he’s right about eye-based musicians. I went to college at a place with a conservatory full of really good musicians who, if you asked them to play Mary Had A Little Lamb or Twinkle Twinkle, would ask you to write it out for them. I once had to explain to a classical musician (a very smart one) how to play by ear. He could play a few instruments and he was a good singer. Well, the thing about being a singer is you can’t be one without being able to duplicate intervals, even if you don’t know what they’re called. You literally can’t carry a tune without doing that because that’s what carrying a tune is. He knew very well what the intervals were called. I asked him if he could recognize intervals in any given melody that he could name. “Of course.” “So if you know what the intervals are, you know what the next note is. Play it.” There is sort of another way to do it because you can track the note by one of two intervals: either the jump from the last note played or the jump to an interval figured from the key you’re in. Example: You’re in C. You’re jumping from F up to A. You can either think you’re jumping a major third or you can think you’re jumping from 4 to 6. I very often use the latter, because relating to the key I’m in at the moment tells me where I am.
Thank You Stewart!! A valid and vindicating insight. At 53 yrs old, I've always been an amateur drummer who could learn a song by ear quickly. But, to this day, I just cannot understand and keep up with reading drum sheet music. It kills me, like taking a Calculus 3 course or something. Why is it so difficult for me, I don't know.
Strew is one of my TOP FIVE FAV Drummers of ALL TIME! I got to meet him in Milwaukee back in the 80's and He was SUPER COOL! VERY Approachable and just LOVED to talk and talk about Drumming and Music and Movies and WHATEVER Came up! Just one of THE BEST OF ALL TIME! LOVE YOU STEW! Thanks for the AWESOME MUSIC! :D
@@wbiro no he wasn't. Bach was an incredible improviser, known for engaging in contests. He went up against the lutenist S.L. Weiss in one, also a noted improviser and virtuoso of the day. Figured bass, from the baroque, would also demand that the keyboard player improvise over it, in the style. Scores were often written by Bach, and others of the day, without ornamentation, assuming that the player would know how to add it in appropriately. Bach would also transcribe his own scores for different instruments or ensembles, and freely make practical changes, showing that he wasn't married to the letter of the score. He was a practical musician, functioning within a culture and style that demanded use of the ear, taste, and knowledge of style that would shape real time playing beyond the written note. You consider him anachronistically, from a later classical music perspective.
I’ve rarely met great classically trained musicians/performers that could play by ear. When you do, they are probably going to blow your mind musically, but can rarely play blues or rock. The most I’ve met were pianist/keyboard players who could “ crossover “ with me as a guitarist. But when you meet a flautist or violinist that can, it’s a rare moment. A “ fiddle “ player is different. Stuart Copeland has never made a musical comment I could disagree with. Nor would I. He’s a master, and a RIDICULOUS percussionist.
63 Y.O. Ben to a 100 concerts.Including Led Zep.The drummers never moved me.Went to see SRV. Jeff Beck opened withTerry Bozio on drums. Afterwards all I could say was wow did you hear Becks drummer!
I'm no professional musician, but I've seen both types of approaches in action. I was in my high school concert and jazz bands and I played in rock bands, even for a little bit as an adult. I also got drum lessons from an orchestral and rock drummer. I see enormous value in both. There's a certain kind of discipline in being able to read a page and figure out the music on the page. You often have to practice lines over-and-over to really get it right, both on your own and in a practice setting. There's a really intense discipline that comes with that which can help your ability to play and get better. But I also think playing by ear, improvising, mixing, feeding off of each other and the crowd in the moment is its own kind of skill. There's something infectious about the feel that comes from popular music (meaning jazz, rock, reggae, hip-hop, etc).
Copeland's insight and Terry Bozzio's smile: the Dynamic Duo! BTW, any truth to the rumor that a 'Back to the Future' reboot is in the works with Copeland playing Christopher Lloyd's part of Doc Brown? Perfect casting choice!
Stew's statement is one guy's experience. My experience is that I was taught guitar by a master degreed in music, classical / flamenco guitarist. He could improvise, ala flamenco and rock. He could read, from his university studies. He had feel, soul. He could rock with feel. He was an inspiration in every way. Along with our sheet music studies he showed me less than ten rock songs, pentatonic scale, open C major scale, all within a few weeks. He then said "You teach yourself the rock stuff on your own by ear, you're good enough at that now to do it on your own, in here we'll continue to learn off the page". This was a great approach as learning by ear gave me a great, great ear, and off the page with him we got into duscussions regarding technique, theory, and composition with a piano sitting close by for visual aid. All of his students did well. When I started playing in bands three years later I found the rock kids didn't understand much about how music was put together. I was lucky the universe put my teacher, Craig Sams, in my path. I ultimately went down a hard rock / metal path, stopped reading and I can no longer read. That will slip away if you don't keep it up. So my experience is very different than Stew's having had the opportunity to study one on one with a guy that was both ear and eye. Those people do exist, though not in large quantities. To agree with Stew, there might not be a single one of these individuals sitting in any given orchestra. But these folks are out there. If you meet one take some private lessons with them, you'll be glad you did.
Guitar is a unique instrument - they can cross paths because the culture has two paths for it. Classical, and rock. But you will not find many mid level pianists or violinists who can rock or feel the music. They read it. And they have to, because they don’t improvise regularly. I’ve been playing guitar for 20 years. Can’t sight read for crap despite trying to learn 12 years ago. You want to know why I gave up? I don’t have to learn to sight read to make music. I think Notion lets you program MIDI with guitar tab now. I can do orchestra with that. That’s the challenge. The staff is not the language, the sound is, and our modern music culture understands that.
Wow! Steward Copeland and Terry Bozzio. Two of the greatest Polyrhythmic Drummers of All Time together in the same room! Amazing! Copeland’s Great but I actually think Bozzio plays more Advanced Polyrhythms than even Copeland could handle. Copeland was Great with the Dub Reggae Polyrhythms but Bozzio could play Any Polyrhythms you can imagine even! He is Incredible! I’ve seen some of his playing and it’s unbelievable the Complexities and Intricate Rhythms and Beats he can play! He is on a higher level than any drummer or percussionist I’ve ever seen! I’m a Fan of both but Bozzio is on a higher plane!
Eventually the perfect Symphony Or. players don't read it any longer and all together give it the feel that the conductor shapes it along with them. Cheers
He's making some valid points. I was a conservatory brat and gigged pro as a brass player for many years. Now, in my 50's, I got myself a nice drum kit and have been playing every day as a casual pursuit - and I do much better when looking at the books than when I'm just attempting to jam. It stems back to my classical days - I wasn't getting paid to be creative. I was getting paid to get it right. Every. Single. Time.
He’s right on the money. I tried to jam a couple times with some musicians that were fresh out of music school who studied classical music and orchestral playing. They had no idea how to jam even if we gave them the key signature. It blew my mind. Now that’s not everyone of course. Plenty of people get out of music school and understand how to read write and jam. But there are a lot that don’t.
Well summed up. Both are needed to develop. Hearing is feeling and feeling is loving. So when you love music enough, you have the energetic commitment to move your body to give to the music making. Knowing how to read music opens them up to musical reception in a whole new way. Like reading words off a page if you were a writer looking to inspired to write their own novel, reading music immediateLy makes your body play the music you probably have never ever heard before. And wow, you just made music. And it isn't that hard to read. You just have to get used to where ALL the notes are on your instrument. For guitarists I would say that knowing by pointing to any place on the fret board and name the note is a precursor to getting to read music in a short space of time.
Improvising classical musicians exist, but they are rare. Classical musicians also have the best ears, since it's important to be able to read a score and hear it in your head.
I remember as a drummer in concert band in high school, occasionally I would ad lib 'a bit' on a snare part. Not enough to get the teacher's attention but I did it. As a drummer you do 'anything' in school to hear the 'snicker' of the other drummers.
i’ve seen and heard many, many musicians who both read AND rock. don’t forget that the great classical composers (that stewart mentions by name) were phenomenal improvisers as well, and that they were trained by ear, just as much as they were trained to read.
He is right - I play music from inside. I can read the dots, but not sight read but I can make my guitar sing. I know extremely capable musicians who cannot play unless given a chart. Play it from the heart, man.
This is great! Thing is Bozzio plays that entire orchestra Stewart is talking about by himself when he drums be it is all drums and no strings literally but he is playing and entire put by himself, mind blowing!
Don't forget the orchestral musician does all that and listens with the ear. So yea he does hear what the other player is playing. That's what differentiates a band from another, or orchestra from another. Exceptional musicians. As is he.
so true- i'd go a step further and say musicians of the eye and ear can almost be so different in nature that they should almost be called two different names rather than both musicians. and it's another reason as a musician of the ear, i'm not much of a fan of the musicians who learn from music schools. musicians of the eye are similar and almost represent another category of two different types of musicians- musicians of the soul/ear vs musicians of the school/eye.
Weeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll. I'm a bit weary of such arguments. Part of it is semantics. We have to agree on the meaning of the words we use. To me, a great classical musician HAS to have a good ear. That means years of ear training, sight singing and learning to transcribe pieces BY EAR. No real classical player worth his salt plays only relying on sight and muscle memory. (I didn't even mention working on tone and articulation, all needing intense listening) BUT there is a big difference between, generally speaking, between a classically trained musician and an improviser that learned "by ear". I don't completely disagree with what Stuart Copeland's saying, but the soul vs school is really unnerving to me. I always say: if you were interesting getting into school, you'll be interesting coming out. If you're boring and/or more someone who executes rather than creates, then that's what you'll be out of school. Music school doesn't format people the way people like to say it does.
Like Ritchie Blackmore said: 'There's guys that play with their head, and guys that play with their heart.' I feel a trend now - exacerbated by social media - is for young musicians to play with their head a lot and try to make music very complex and virtuosic, just to show how 'good' they are.
I have been a musician for 35 years and I can tell you that there are musicians that can read, rock play jazz and write. They exist and some of them are very young.
Sir .. if it’s alright too say so .. in my hobble opinion always respect effort and discipline that’s why this young people are so great the practice so much that it’s unthinkable for regular people like myself and others.. keep on the good work sir and thanks for your input..
this amazing...so true... he isn't consistent in striking every fifth or what ever but he is amazing ...drums on Driven to tears ...perfect example jamming by ear ...amazing
I am a fan of different types of music, including classical music. Classical music is on a whole different level. Stewart Copeland is a great musician.
I love Stuart Copeland’s playing. He’s very well spoken and has obviously thought quite a lot about his point of view. Except that he hasn’t met very many classical musicians. He doesn’t know that many of them consider reading the music and following the conductor as signs of weakness.
Lord - can you imagine Stewart's having to deal with Morrison? o_O You're late! And drunk! And you just missed 20 great ideas I had! We can't operate like this!
He does have a point. Kids who play in the Highschool band learn to read music note for note. If they go on to study music in university say...Jazz music for example then they must "learn" to improvise and "play by ear". That being said Bach was apparently an amazing improviser and could jam for hours. We only have what was written down.
I agree with him. And I also agree that there are musicians who can do both, like he said. I fall into that category. I can read my ass off and I can improv. But then again I grew up playing pop, rock ,jazz, and classical. Now as far as classically trained musicians go, who didn't play rock, jazz, pop, etc... they have a hard time improvising, if at all. I worked in a band with Juliard trained string players who were fantastic players and of course could sight read very well. But they could NOT improvise to save their life. If they had to improv, It would have to be shown to them or written out.
He obviously has a lot of respect for orchestral musicians, but idt he really understands what they do. They certainly don't improvise like jazz players or jam like rock players, but any good classical musician absolutely has to be "a musician of the ear." When they play, they have to listen to all of the other parts around them for cues on style and tone, as well as to line up tempos for rubato sections. There are nuances that can't be written on sheet music, and good musicians know how to listen to each other to enhance the performance.
I once knew a very talented saxophone player who played only by notation. I invited him to jam with our blues band which had keys, horns, guitar, bass, drums, and harp. He was too intimidated because he said he did not know how to play without sheet music! He said he didn’t know the first thing about improvisation. How sad!
Back in the 80s there was this one kid who thought he was a good drummer because he studied and could play (kind of lol) Neil Peart's drum fills. I picked out a few albums from my collection and took them to his house and played a few songs to see if he could figure out the drum parts. It was a pretty eclectic mix of genres, but one song in particular I remember playing was U.S. Drag by Missing Persons. He couldn't figure it out. Another one was Sly and the Family Stone's In Time. He couldn't play that either. I rarely see Terry Bozzio or Andy Newmark mentioned on any great drummers lists.🤔
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There are three kinds of drummer: Those who can count, and those who can't.
LOL
I guess I'm the type who can count
Underrated comment.
🙏
😂
😂
The Police could not have made such an amazing sound if it were not for that man.
Best thing about Copeland is that he could bully Sting.
Who's going to the bank more?
Junior Richards
Stewart is doing fine. $80 million net worth is a decent chunk for a drummer.🤟
@@m.j.richmond6546 darn right. After about $20 million, it's just a number in the bank. with that amount of $, you can buy that private jet and yacht. maybe not a Gulfstream, but definitely a very nice craft for $3 million. Stewart is doing just fine. He's not making as much in royalties as Sting. But he's playing with a great band, Gizmodome, and doing what he wants in life.
Really? Didn’t Sting tell him once that he wasn’t a great drummer and he didn’t touch the kit for years after that ???
Sting knows how much that guy meant to him.
Stewart's passion just screams at you.
He’s a genius, and in my opinion one of the greatest percussionist ever
I know that I've seen a few people say this, I'll say it here... without Stewart Copeland, the Police would NOT have had the same success at all. Sting owes this man his career. (Big time Sting and Police fan here)
When Stewart talks, I shut up and listen.
I roll my eyes sometimes too. He can spin a yarn, as it were.
When Stewart talks, you have to listen coz you wont be able to get a word in any way!
@@aybee63 - Ha ha, perfectly put!
:-)
Indeed. He's droppin' serious knowledge. Im a drummer,and Im listening.
My old drum instructor told me "sometimes you gotta get your head out of the music and get the music in your head."
Now I get why Stewart and Neil Peart were close friends, both excellent at expressing themselves verbally and hitting things with sticks!
Stewart Copeland has always blown my mind with his intellectual perspective. I work in different disciplines and what he is saying is so absolutely true.
He is a gem. I could listen to him all day.
Weird that nobody here is mentioning Frank Zappa. If there is one guy who did both it’s him. Zappa was a brilliant ear musician and a fantastic composer. He pushed Bozzio to be the best player he could be and he did this with all his musicians.
Well told. Zappa could write music on paper for whatever band he was leading at a given time but he also could improvise brilliantly. One of the most underrated guitar players in the history of rock
Boz is the best one in the room
They did mention Zappa. Stewart says in the beginning to Bozzio, that Bozzio is badshit at reading musiccharts, and Terry replies, that he has read some black shit, referring to the Black Page written by Zappa.
They did! at 00:26, Bozzio says "...I played some black shit", reference to "the black page" by Zappa.
The title came from the fact that the score was so full of notes that the page looked totally(almost) black.
On a side note, Zappa admitted he was a terrible reader, and probably would have fail had he had to pass an audition to enter his own group.
Luk Schrijvers Yes but most Jazz musicians can read and obviously improvise. Many Jazz musicians started classical training then get side tracked to Jazz.
I love that even after all these years, he's still as passionate as he was when he was young. Brilliant musician.
I don't care how many times a classical musician plays a certain piece- it always come out different. Master classes are about infusing life into a written phrase. I have a great admiration for symphony players, for , among other things, their tone and pitch production- outstanding. They are using their ears, believe me.
Sheet music is like "connect the dots". Some connect it with shaky lines, some with beautiful arches. We would only really know how Fur Elise was intended to be played if we could hear Beethoven play it. Never mind that when he was composing it, he was not writing at the desk but improvising at his piano.
I wish I could remember the band/song but I watched a new version of a rock song a few years back, done with the band, but with an orchestra backing. And it was so beautiful, and then the orchestra players start smiling and swaying as they played, and you could FEEL their energy through their playing. It is definitely more than just playing static notes off a page.
Copeland sounded like an amateur spewing on here, to be honest. I get his passion, but don't be so passionate about flinging bullshit.
And I'm just a guitar and vox rocker and can't read sheet music at all. Well except when I had to force myself to, to program the synth and keyboards from sheet music for a few songs. Aye, that was painful. I learned a lot. And forgot it all as soon as I was done.
I like listening to Stewart talk.
I really appreciate that he doesn't dis either styles of musicians, but acknowledges one is better at doing this and the other is better at doing that. And I also like his humility acknowledging that while the kid out of music school can't rock, he's much faster at doing a music score.
Would be awesome to be ambidexstrous in this regard!
He's so damn compelling. Always gets my full attention.
Such a gift to hear this man speak. Such an original guy. Such a genius.
I could listen to Stewart drum or talk, all day.
Wow that is the best damn explanation I've ever heard of the difference between reading and listening
Disclaimer: some musicians are good at both approaches.
Yes. It's called jazz.
I do both. I started out classically trained on a variety of instruments, then moved to drums. I can read music, write music, and play by ear also.
lately, there are more and more. but it's still rare. They are both very consuming.
As all should be. Disclaimer: I'm good at neither.
Toto 👍
What a group of living legends.
Stewart Copeland has become an awesome mentor to millions: The Man on the Silver Mountain.
That was Dio. ha
Stewart is a goddamn genius...love listening to him speak.
The only time I have ever felt close to other human beings was when playing in an orchestra. When it all comes together the way it was intended, it is a beautiful feeling...
Same thing with a 3,4, or 5 piece rock/pop group.
There two kinds of musicians the ones we hear and the ones were never going to hear. Growing up in a recording studio one of my saddest realizations was that there are some truly great musicians that we are never going to get to hear. Heartbreaker. Stewart did I meet you at the Avery Hotel through Meme?
Copeland is a compassionate genius. I am a giant fan of his straightforward language- which mimics his amazingly articulate playing!
Love the way Copeland explains music... Priceless.
I am both a musician of the ear and the eye. I have a degree in music but I've also played in several rock and cover bands over the years. When I see all the comments here saying that musicians of the eye have no soul or feeling, I think that is the insecurity and inferiority complex of non-trained musicians rearing it's head. If I've learned anything from playing with musicians who know nothing about theory, it's that a good number of them are insecurity about their lack of technical knowledge. In a way, they have to believe that their relationship with music is somehow superior to the guy who has spent his whole life engaged in the art of music and who's passion for it is so great that he was willing to spend his childhood, teen years, and adulthood engaged in musical development. Now don't get me wrong!!! There are many, many, many musicians who can't read who are phenomenal in their respective fields (rock, jazz, blues, etc.) but the notion that a trained musician is ultimately a useless automaton is absolutely is absurd. All of the great classical musicians, most of the great jazz players, most film score composers, and a decent number of Pop/Rock musicians are thoroughly trained in the technical aspects of music. Perhaps the majority of rock or blues or rap musicians are not but that is because technical prowess and theoretical understanding is unnecessary for those particular genres of music!!! The skill set is different. It's more improvisatory and loose. Most genres and styles of music are great and have their own types of brilliance. But I do reject this silly notion that trained musicians are incapable of expressing emotion. Tell that to Bach. To Debussy. To Miles Davis. To John Williams. To Frank Zappa. And so on. I hate to break it to you guys but there does exist a world outside of Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton solos and riffs. Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton type music and related styles of music is EPIC, yes. But let's not pretend that there isn't mountains of brilliant music across many other genres and fields
Yes. In early rock n roll, orchestra musicians only played anf lidtened to the classicd-or some did jazz. But, yes, they didn't rock. Maybe even didn't approve of rock n roll at all. But today, lots of kids in conservatories grew up loving and playing rock n roll. So they get both.
I really, really get this. I’m classically trained, though in the last few decades I’ve played way more rock than classical, but I’ve always been better with my ears than my eyes. Using the page helps with certain kinds of coordination, particularly polyphonic coordination, and it also helps with memory, particularly if the part is detailed. But he’s right about eye-based musicians. I went to college at a place with a conservatory full of really good musicians who, if you asked them to play Mary Had A Little Lamb or Twinkle Twinkle, would ask you to write it out for them. I once had to explain to a classical musician (a very smart one) how to play by ear. He could play a few instruments and he was a good singer. Well, the thing about being a singer is you can’t be one without being able to duplicate intervals, even if you don’t know what they’re called. You literally can’t carry a tune without doing that because that’s what carrying a tune is. He knew very well what the intervals were called. I asked him if he could recognize intervals in any given melody that he could name. “Of course.” “So if you know what the intervals are, you know what the next note is. Play it.” There is sort of another way to do it because you can track the note by one of two intervals: either the jump from the last note played or the jump to an interval figured from the key you’re in. Example: You’re in C. You’re jumping from F up to A. You can either think you’re jumping a major third or you can think you’re jumping from 4 to 6. I very often use the latter, because relating to the key I’m in at the moment tells me where I am.
Thank You Stewart!! A valid and vindicating insight. At 53 yrs old, I've always been an amateur drummer who could learn a song by ear quickly. But, to this day, I just cannot understand and keep up with reading drum sheet music. It kills me, like taking a Calculus 3 course or something. Why is it so difficult for me, I don't know.
Strew is one of my TOP FIVE FAV Drummers of ALL TIME!
I got to meet him in Milwaukee back in the 80's and He was SUPER COOL! VERY Approachable and just LOVED to talk and talk about Drumming and Music and Movies and WHATEVER Came up! Just one of THE BEST OF ALL TIME!
LOVE YOU STEW! Thanks for the AWESOME MUSIC! :D
And this is why Mozart, Vivaldi and Beethoven are geniuses.
Don't forget Bach
@@genustinca5565 Noooooo... Bach was all about the written note... the more like a machine you were, the better...
Mozart and Beethoven both liked to improvise (to 'kick out the jams')... and were very good at it... sadly, recording technology did not exist then...
@@wbiro Nonsense. Bach improvised all the time.
@@wbiro no he wasn't. Bach was an incredible improviser, known for engaging in contests. He went up against the lutenist S.L. Weiss in one, also a noted improviser and virtuoso of the day.
Figured bass, from the baroque, would also demand that the keyboard player improvise over it, in the style. Scores were often written by Bach, and others of the day, without ornamentation, assuming that the player would know how to add it in appropriately.
Bach would also transcribe his own scores for different instruments or ensembles, and freely make practical changes, showing that he wasn't married to the letter of the score. He was a practical musician, functioning within a culture and style that demanded use of the ear, taste, and knowledge of style that would shape real time playing beyond the written note.
You consider him anachronistically, from a later classical music perspective.
Terry Bozzio -what a brilliantly creative drummer !
I’ve rarely met great classically trained musicians/performers that could play by ear. When you do, they are probably going to blow your mind musically, but can rarely play blues or rock. The most I’ve met were pianist/keyboard players who could “ crossover “ with me as a guitarist. But when you meet a flautist or violinist that can, it’s a rare moment. A “ fiddle “ player is different. Stuart Copeland has never made a musical comment I could disagree with. Nor would I. He’s a master, and a RIDICULOUS percussionist.
love him or hate him hes a beautiful talent that i am happy to have been able to experience his vision.... ty Stew... peace
Love this guy what he's saying is true. I play by ear and I base my playing around a general Melody and improvisation
63 Y.O. Ben to a 100 concerts.Including Led Zep.The drummers never moved me.Went to see SRV. Jeff Beck opened withTerry Bozio on drums. Afterwards all I could say was wow did you hear Becks drummer!
Someone needs to take and bottle his energy. Love it!!
It's called a work ethic.
I'm no professional musician, but I've seen both types of approaches in action. I was in my high school concert and jazz bands and I played in rock bands, even for a little bit as an adult. I also got drum lessons from an orchestral and rock drummer.
I see enormous value in both. There's a certain kind of discipline in being able to read a page and figure out the music on the page. You often have to practice lines over-and-over to really get it right, both on your own and in a practice setting. There's a really intense discipline that comes with that which can help your ability to play and get better.
But I also think playing by ear, improvising, mixing, feeding off of each other and the crowd in the moment is its own kind of skill. There's something infectious about the feel that comes from popular music (meaning jazz, rock, reggae, hip-hop, etc).
Copeland's insight and Terry Bozzio's smile: the Dynamic Duo! BTW, any truth to the rumor that a 'Back to the Future' reboot is in the works with Copeland playing Christopher Lloyd's part of Doc Brown? Perfect casting choice!
This is a truly great clip.
I hope they continue getting these kinds of philosophical discussions.
Stew's statement is one guy's experience. My experience is that I was taught guitar by a master degreed in music, classical / flamenco guitarist. He could improvise, ala flamenco and rock. He could read, from his university studies. He had feel, soul. He could rock with feel. He was an inspiration in every way. Along with our sheet music studies he showed me less than ten rock songs, pentatonic scale, open C major scale, all within a few weeks. He then said "You teach yourself the rock stuff on your own by ear, you're good enough at that now to do it on your own, in here we'll continue to learn off the page". This was a great approach as learning by ear gave me a great, great ear, and off the page with him we got into duscussions regarding technique, theory, and composition with a piano sitting close by for visual aid. All of his students did well. When I started playing in bands three years later I found the rock kids didn't understand much about how music was put together. I was lucky the universe put my teacher, Craig Sams, in my path. I ultimately went down a hard rock / metal path, stopped reading and I can no longer read. That will slip away if you don't keep it up. So my experience is very different than Stew's having had the opportunity to study one on one with a guy that was both ear and eye. Those people do exist, though not in large quantities. To agree with Stew, there might not be a single one of these individuals sitting in any given orchestra. But these folks are out there. If you meet one take some private lessons with them, you'll be glad you did.
Guitar is a unique instrument - they can cross paths because the culture has two paths for it. Classical, and rock. But you will not find many mid level pianists or violinists who can rock or feel the music. They read it. And they have to, because they don’t improvise regularly.
I’ve been playing guitar for 20 years. Can’t sight read for crap despite trying to learn 12 years ago. You want to know why I gave up? I don’t have to learn to sight read to make music. I think Notion lets you program MIDI with guitar tab now. I can do orchestra with that. That’s the challenge. The staff is not the language, the sound is, and our modern music culture understands that.
Stewart is one of the greats, for sure - his work on "Roxanne" is particularly excellent!
Wow! Steward Copeland and Terry Bozzio. Two of the greatest Polyrhythmic Drummers of All Time together in the same room! Amazing! Copeland’s Great but I actually think Bozzio plays more Advanced Polyrhythms than even Copeland could handle. Copeland was Great with the Dub Reggae Polyrhythms but Bozzio could play Any Polyrhythms you can imagine even! He is Incredible! I’ve seen some of his playing and it’s unbelievable the Complexities and Intricate Rhythms and Beats he can play! He is on a higher level than any drummer or percussionist I’ve ever seen! I’m a Fan of both but Bozzio is on a higher plane!
Eventually the perfect Symphony Or. players don't read it any longer and all together give it the feel that the conductor shapes it along with them. Cheers
He's making some valid points. I was a conservatory brat and gigged pro as a brass player for many years. Now, in my 50's, I got myself a nice drum kit and have been playing every day as a casual pursuit - and I do much better when looking at the books than when I'm just attempting to jam. It stems back to my classical days - I wasn't getting paid to be creative. I was getting paid to get it right. Every. Single. Time.
He’s right on the money. I tried to jam a couple times with some musicians that were fresh out of music school who studied classical music and orchestral playing. They had no idea how to jam even if we gave them the key signature. It blew my mind. Now that’s not everyone of course. Plenty of people get out of music school and understand how to read write and jam. But there are a lot that don’t.
Vinnie, of course, is BOTH.
Well said my brother...Caliuta is a master...much like Pat Metheny who is a great technician but also an incredible composer...
and S Gadd. We come in a read, play get paid and leave. It's easier!
Yup,Cobham too.
I love the way he mixes an American and a British accent in some vowels.
Well summed up. Both are needed to develop. Hearing is feeling and feeling is loving. So when you love music enough, you have the energetic commitment to move your body to give to the music making. Knowing how to read music opens them up to musical reception in a whole new way. Like reading words off a page if you were a writer looking to inspired to write their own novel, reading music immediateLy makes your body play the music you probably have never ever heard before. And wow, you just made music. And it isn't that hard to read. You just have to get used to where ALL the notes are on your instrument. For guitarists I would say that knowing by pointing to any place on the fret board and name the note is a precursor to getting to read music in a short space of time.
I'm proudly a musician of both the eye and ear.
Stewart Copeland....great musician, great human being!
Eye or ear...it's all about the 'feel'. Stewart is articulate, awesome.
Damn I like hearing him talk
A bit like Bill Walton. Same passion, a bit less BS.
Stewart Copeland is a very intelligent and charismatic guy.
Improvising classical musicians exist, but they are rare. Classical musicians also have the best ears, since it's important to be able to read a score and hear it in your head.
I remember as a drummer in concert band in high school, occasionally I would ad lib 'a bit' on a snare part. Not enough to get the teacher's attention but I did it. As a drummer you do 'anything' in school to hear the 'snicker' of the other drummers.
Fascinating commentary from one of the best rock drummers of all time. For my money Copeland WAS the Police, Sting and Summers were riding his talent.
As always - much wisdom from Stewart.
Stewart's explanation is a masterclass of music. The example of both visual & aural musician IMHO is Nile Rodgers. Great explanation Stewart.
i’ve seen and heard many, many musicians who both read AND rock. don’t forget that the great classical composers (that stewart mentions by name) were phenomenal improvisers as well, and that they were trained by ear, just as much as they were trained to read.
And funky! Chopin has the funk. Beethoven has DA FUNK!
He is right - I play music from inside. I can read the dots, but not sight read but I can make my guitar sing. I know extremely capable musicians who cannot play unless given a chart. Play it from the heart, man.
I love the way He thinks. Stewart is a Drum God!
This is great! Thing is Bozzio plays that entire orchestra Stewart is talking about by himself when he drums be it is all drums and no strings literally but he is playing and entire put by himself, mind blowing!
Don't forget the orchestral musician does all that and listens with the ear. So yea he does hear what the other player is playing. That's what differentiates a band from another, or orchestra from another. Exceptional musicians. As is he.
In spite of this speech I still think reading music is an asset. Being able to "rock" is subjective.
Jaco Pastorius would agree with you!
so true-
i'd go a step further and say musicians of the eye and ear can almost be so different in nature that they should almost be called two different names rather than both musicians.
and it's another reason as a musician of the ear, i'm not much of a fan of the musicians who learn from music schools.
musicians of the eye are similar and almost represent another category of two different types of musicians-
musicians of the soul/ear vs musicians of the school/eye.
Weeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll. I'm a bit weary of such arguments. Part of it is semantics. We have to agree on the meaning of the words we use. To me, a great classical musician HAS to have a good ear. That means years of ear training, sight singing and learning to transcribe pieces BY EAR. No real classical player worth his salt plays only relying on sight and muscle memory. (I didn't even mention working on tone and articulation, all needing intense listening) BUT there is a big difference between, generally speaking, between a classically trained musician and an improviser that learned "by ear". I don't completely disagree with what Stuart Copeland's saying, but the soul vs school is really unnerving to me. I always say: if you were interesting getting into school, you'll be interesting coming out. If you're boring and/or more someone who executes rather than creates, then that's what you'll be out of school. Music school doesn't format people the way people like to say it does.
Like Ritchie Blackmore said: 'There's guys that play with their head, and guys that play with their heart.' I feel a trend now - exacerbated by social media - is for young musicians to play with their head a lot and try to make music very complex and virtuosic, just to show how 'good' they are.
Perfect, exactly true.
I have been a musician for 35 years and I can tell you that there are musicians that can read, rock play jazz and write. They exist and some of them are very young.
Sir .. if it’s alright too say so .. in my hobble opinion always respect effort and discipline that’s why this young people are so great the practice so much that it’s unthinkable for regular people like myself and others.. keep on the good work sir and thanks for your input..
It is possible to reach the pinnacle of both and some musicians can do this
Walking in LA....awesome song Terry!!
Stewart Copeland is my favorite black metal keyboard player
The last sentence says it all!
this amazing...so true... he isn't consistent in striking every fifth or what ever but he is amazing ...drums on Driven to tears ...perfect example
jamming by ear ...amazing
I am a fan of different types of music, including classical music. Classical music is on a whole different level. Stewart Copeland is a great musician.
I love Stuart Copeland’s playing. He’s very well spoken and has obviously thought quite a lot about his point of view. Except that he hasn’t met very many classical musicians. He doesn’t know that many of them consider reading the music and following the conductor as signs of weakness.
I'd rather Rock, thanks for proving to myself I'm on the right path.
Mr. Copland Your the best!!!
He reminds me a bit about The Doors Ray Manzarek as a person on screen. Both seem (seemed RIP Ray) like very nice people. Very articulate too!
Lord - can you imagine Stewart's having to deal with Morrison? o_O
You're late! And drunk! And you just missed 20 great ideas I had! We can't operate like this!
This is best explanation, and the first such without being insulting to either type of musician. Good on ya Stew!
He does have a point. Kids who play in the Highschool band learn to read music note for note. If they go on to study music in university say...Jazz music for example then they must "learn" to improvise and "play by ear". That being said Bach was apparently an amazing improviser and could jam for hours. We only have what was written down.
Crazy Bugger, Stewart is! endlessly entertaining!
I love hearing Stew talk music.
I agree with him. And I also agree that there are musicians who can do both, like he said. I fall into that category. I can read my ass off and I can improv. But then again I grew up playing pop, rock ,jazz, and classical. Now as far as classically trained musicians go, who didn't play rock, jazz, pop, etc... they have a hard time improvising, if at all. I worked in a band with Juliard trained string players who were fantastic players and of course could sight read very well. But they could NOT improvise to save their life. If they had to improv, It would have to be shown to them or written out.
He obviously has a lot of respect for orchestral musicians, but idt he really understands what they do. They certainly don't improvise like jazz players or jam like rock players, but any good classical musician absolutely has to be "a musician of the ear." When they play, they have to listen to all of the other parts around them for cues on style and tone, as well as to line up tempos for rubato sections. There are nuances that can't be written on sheet music, and good musicians know how to listen to each other to enhance the performance.
Spot on...the ear all the way.
I once knew a very talented saxophone player who played only by notation. I invited him to jam with our blues band which had keys, horns, guitar, bass, drums, and harp. He was too intimidated because he said he did not know how to play without sheet music! He said he didn’t know the first thing about improvisation. How sad!
Two words.... Miles and Davis. 'Nuff said.
Genius observation. Spot-on true
I like how they didn’t say that one is better.
wow, what a video. This guy knows how to talk music. thank you
Basically the most energetic person ever!
Back in the 80s there was this one kid who thought he was a good drummer because he studied and could play (kind of lol) Neil Peart's drum fills.
I picked out a few albums from my collection and took them to his house and played a few songs to see if he could figure out the drum parts. It was a pretty eclectic mix of genres, but one song in particular I remember playing was U.S. Drag by Missing Persons. He couldn't figure it out. Another one was Sly and the Family Stone's In Time. He couldn't play that either. I rarely see Terry Bozzio or Andy Newmark mentioned on any great drummers lists.🤔
Bravo
Copeland brilliant as always
I love this guy. He communicates with total passion. I imagine this trait developed after The Police however. Less coke and less Sting in his life.
This was recommended ... So I listened ... . I enjoyed listening to his thoughts ... Cheers ..Z
Love Stewart
the legend
What a legend