What regional dialect do you or your ancestors have? photos.app.goo.gl/2HPjS4tx6U9stknj7. I also may need to get my eyes checked because for Map #3 I think that other color is yellow and not light green.
Rusyns in Hungary are so well assimilated indeed I only learnt about 2 of my close friends and a few childhood neighbours from North-East Hungary having Rusyn origins recently after I discovered Hridza's video clips on TH-cam during the spring lockdown and started to brag about them to friends and family. :)
You could have explained what the term 'Ruthenian' meant in Austro-Hungarian censuses - as far as I know, it referred to any person whose mother tongue was an Eastern Slavic dialect and whose religious affiliation was Eastern Orthodox or Eastern rite Catholic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct. However, lemko means that the "Ukrainian" identity was never historically imposed upon the Rusyns, as Rusyns were in Hungary and Ukrainians were in Galicia. Both of them are "Ruthenians" in the past, but considering both of them as "Ukrainians" is wrong and propaganda, even provocative.
Others can give a better answer, but Slovaks and Hungarians are probably the people we have the best relations with. They treat us well in comparison historically to the Poles and Ukrainians.
@@lemkowithhistory I mean... It can be a idea for a video about relations of others with Rusyns because me as Slovak... I view Rusyns as Eastern brothers and even have thoughts about Zakarpatia coming back to Slovakia (some people call it "The Lost Land")
@@Ender_Nether well rusyns are culturally and linguistically definitely closer to ukraine. Just like entire east slovakia. So you didn't loose anything while the czechs rather lost you or you the czechs.
@@TheDovahkiin97 eeeh well if we think about Rusyns... Then probably because they use cyrillic but it is surprisingly close to Slovak Language and I can understand Rusyn Language witn minor issues if spoken and it is now your territory because Soviets just stole it from Czechoslovakia... While it was agreed to have the same Pre-WW2 territories And it might look like they are more ukrainian because of assimilation from what I heard but Rusyns are basically like Mixed Slovaks and Ukrainians even tho they are their own ethnicity And Eastern Slovakia is definetly NOT close to Ukraine at all...
@@TheDovahkiin97 And about Czechs.. Well we rather wanted to be independent because many Slovaks were unhappy to live in the shadow of Czechs. But now...many Czechs and Slovaks and even young want to recreate Czechoslovakia
Stop saying "white croats". Modern Rusyns most likely have nothing to do with "white croatia" as it was in eastern/southern bohemia and middle silesia. And it only turned "white" (north) when "red" (south) balkan-croatia was established. Rusyns however have much to do with the "horvatians" who migrated to bohemia/silesia in the 550s/560s and became "harvatians". This is when (among others) the territory of the modern rusyns became known as "Great Horvatija" just because the new bohemian/silesian one was smaller. Note how im using "horvats", as "croats" is a latinized monstrosity only applicable to modern balkan-croatians while "horvats" or "harvats" makes sense for the other entities. Regarding the eastern slovaks: those suffered heavy ethnic consolidation through the centuries which is also evident in their dialect as Eastern slovak is considerably different from Central and Western slovak in its phonology, morphology and vocabulary, set apart by a stronger connection to Polish and Rusyn. Also Avars took the "horvatians" from the modern rusyn regions and made them settle the duchy of slavonia which is the modern northern half of croatia and a stripe of northern bosnia down to the town of tuzla. The croatians south of it who founded the duchy of dalmatia (and later the kingdom) and expanded over eastern istria to srebrenica were the "harvatians" who came from "white harvatija" in the 630s (called by the roman emperor). All of this dialectal hurvat/harvat/horvat/hervat bullshit resulted in modern standard croatian just cutting this letter and calling it unified "Hrvatska". Embrace your ancient roots and your old alanian ethonym "Horvat" 🇭🇷 so you can be free from the only other left exonym "Rusyn" which was made to connect you to the swedish varangian 830s "rus" exonym (finnish) in the first place. Do you really want an exonym (rusyn) which came from an exonym (rus) to be your modern ethonym? The ukrainains at least have an ethonym which developed from the inside to describe its political status as a borderland (literal translation of "U-krajina"). Ukrainians only hate "rusyn" because of this "rus" connection which implies that they also belong to them as they are in the middle between the RUSyns and RUSsians. Confused northern slavs...
First of all,there's significant evidence hinting as to this place being called "White Croatia". The croats you are reffering to are the Red Croats. We don't exactly know when and why they migrated to the balkans but in all honesty,the alanian theory in of itself is flawed on many levels.
@@TheSlavicChannel please share this "significant evidence" and the flaws on "many levels" of the alanian theory (which isn't even a theory anymore). Even the Mojmirids were described as alans by arab geographers. And arab geographers were very accurate. The etymology of "horvat" can linguistically only be traced over language features which are only present in old ossetian (alanian). And many more indicators. You are talking about them like they were not one people and as they already knew "yo what's up team white? We are team red and up to migrate to the balkans". This doesn't make any sense as those color labels were applied much later. Also we know why they migrated. As i said: 1. Ancestors of northern croatians came from carpathia with avars in the 560s. while 2. Ancestors of southern croatians came from bohemia/silesia in the 630s because the roman emperor called for them to attack the avars and slavs in order to stop their raids. They came to bohemia/silesia from carpathia in the 550s/560s. And btw. "white" means north and carpathia is not north of croatia while eastern bohemia is directly north of the first exclusive balkan croatian settlements in northern dalmatia. So if white croatia was in carpathia, red croatia would have ended up in bulgaria. An avatar with a fancy pan-slavic flag doesn't make you an expert on any slavic related topics. However it does make your political ideology visible. Which is a bad thing considering that basically any ideology is a threat to science and research. The combination of communism and pan-slavism in former yugoslavia literally encouraged the imprisonments and murders of croatian iranologists as their work threatened the crumbling ideologies. A counter example would be the polish sarmatism movement which was indeed full of bullshit but the core message was right and it's not about how it was delivered but rather about the fact that it managed to exist in the first place: Alans and other skytho-sarmatian tribes had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the ethnogenesis and basically establishment of what is today known as "slavic". If you don't believe me just ask yourself where the skythians and sarmatians are today. In ancient times they used to control the entire steppe before any turkic tribes appeared. Where are they now? How can it be that ossetians are the only leftovers? Well they disappeared so instantly because they willingly melted with the proto-balto-slavs and this created proto-slavic. This is why proto-balto-slavic doesn't look very close to modern slavic while it does look like arhaic lithuanian. How could it considering that the linguistic period before proto-slavic is literally called PRE-slavic? However modern slavic nations are still very opposed to anything not "purely slavic" (which is extremely dumb as slavic could not develop on its own) and that's why there are still "disputes". There is a VERY BIG difference between a slavist and a pan-slavist.
@Dimitrij Fedorov no problem. And yeah the identity changing to "Horvat" was more a joke. Anyone should have the possibility to identify as anything he wants. But history is history and we know that even in the 19th century people still identified as horvats in ukraine and poland. Also this: en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C#Old_East_Slavic Is much more likely than what you said especially because we know that in the beginning the "rus" name was only used for ilmenian slavs before it spreaded to the kievan south. Etymological research is based on fulfilling the criteria of formal derivability, historical plausibility and semantic probability. None of those fits to your proposal. Sry. Example: Only the etymology deriving *Xъrvatъ from Iranian *harw-at- „guardian, protector“ fulfills the criteria. This name was borrowed into Proto-Slavic from Proto-Ossetic or Alanian, because only in that Iranian language there is a change of *a to *u before a syllable containing *w. The "Słownik staropolski" dictionary even contains "charwat" (you read it the same as "Harvat") as "guardian". From like hundreds of etymological proposals for the croatian name only this one fullfils every criteria and lines up with basically everything else from a historic point of view.
@Dimitrij Fedorov we agree on (1). I don't agree with (2) until you provide a source of the 'Rus' mentioning before the 830s when swedish varangians entered the game in finnish/slavic borderlands. The fact that it's present in basically any other modern language as it is in latin doesn't change anything. You can adopt any exonym in your language and someone else can hear you say it and translate it into theirs. For example the bulgarians were also majorly slavic tribes ruled by a few bulgars. However they adopted their name just like any other language adopted their self identification. A different fact: The ancestors of croatians settled the balkans until the 630s roughly 200 years before the rus state formed so they had no contact with each other. This is why the croatian variant of the "Lech, Czech and Rus" Legend is the only one without Rus but instead "Leh, Čeh and Meh". All the other northern slavic languages adopted the Rus label which the eastern slavs adopted for themselves.
@Dimitrij Fedorov the slavs did not yet use this word for themselves in 830 because this word was used by finns to describe the swedes (not slavs!) who established the rus state. Only later the slavic population adopted this name (probably from the varangians who adopted it from the finns beforehand). Old East Slavic Русь (Rusĭ) (whence Byzantine Greek Ρωσσία (Rōssía)), the original form of the endonym of Russians that originally referred to a tribe of Varangians, is likely borrowed from Finnic, but is ultimately from the same Germanic source (compare the etymology section of ryssä (“(derogatory) Russian”), from Swedish ryss, from the aforementioned Slavic word). Samic words, such as Northern Sami Ruoŧŧa, are borrowings from Finnic. The rus ethonym did not develop in proto or common slavic. Rusyn didn't develop in the 1200-1400s because it was present from the very rus beginning as it described someone who is part of the rus state: "A single individual is called a русинъ (rusinŭ), whence modern Russian руси́н (rusín)". And beeing part of the state was not connected with ethnicity back then. You could be a horvatian-русинъ for example. Some horvats became русинъи after vladimir the great subjected them in 992 but they were still described as horvats when they participated in the siege of constantinople. Only after centuries of ethnic consolidation they forgot about their original tribal ethonym.
What regional dialect do you or your ancestors have? photos.app.goo.gl/2HPjS4tx6U9stknj7. I also may need to get my eyes checked because for Map #3 I think that other color is yellow and not light green.
Uzhorod area for my grandparents
since you asked so nicely, eastern zemplin :))
I hear Viagra messes with your eyes...lol ;-)
@@patriotpioneer How did you know 🤔
@@lemkowithhistory Lol..!
Thanks for finally putting a 'good' map as well, this is important to represent that we don't just flame about stuff)
I thought it needed some balance, was too negative haha.
That graphic at the end !!!! :D
Screeching sound for the lemko map lol
lololol the part with C-RE at the beginning
Probably where all the dislikes are coming from lol.
Ukrainians were and sometimes are still called as Ruthenians. So we are one nation indeed.
No
Заїбавись то писати
Rusyns in Hungary are so well assimilated indeed I only learnt about 2 of my close friends and a few childhood neighbours from North-East Hungary having Rusyn origins recently after I discovered Hridza's video clips on TH-cam during the spring lockdown and started to brag about them to friends and family. :)
that "Greather Ukraine" map in the dustbin xddd
what's the song in the end?
The memes are spicy and the script is tasty..I approve 🍻. family dialect is yellow
You could have explained what the term 'Ruthenian' meant in Austro-Hungarian censuses - as far as I know, it referred to any person whose mother tongue was an Eastern Slavic dialect and whose religious affiliation was Eastern Orthodox or Eastern rite Catholic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct. However, lemko means that the "Ukrainian" identity was never historically imposed upon the Rusyns, as Rusyns were in Hungary and Ukrainians were in Galicia. Both of them are "Ruthenians" in the past, but considering both of them as "Ukrainians" is wrong and propaganda, even provocative.
Could you make a Video about the short lived Republic in 1938-1939 and Avgustin Voloshyn
It's in my list to do, probably a few vids I do before the Republic (Wisla and book announcment). Should be made by end of January.
i have a map, its a re-print someone gave my dad in the 80's. it's in Russian. i will dig this out!
Please do!
Ok, now you need to do a video of your best, and most informative maps about Rusyns
The salt flows through this video
Austria-Hungary map is kinda pre historic EU map. Lol. At least all Rusyns were all together there( sigh)
Better days :/
Rusedonia: thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/macedonia-map-rusyns-flag-colors-editable-vector-137998660.jpg
What a beautiful thing.
I have a question for Rusyns:
Do you Rusyns like Slovaks and Slovakia?
Others can give a better answer, but Slovaks and Hungarians are probably the people we have the best relations with. They treat us well in comparison historically to the Poles and Ukrainians.
@@lemkowithhistory I mean... It can be a idea for a video about relations of others with Rusyns because me as Slovak... I view Rusyns as Eastern brothers and even have thoughts about Zakarpatia coming back to Slovakia (some people call it "The Lost Land")
@@Ender_Nether well rusyns are culturally and linguistically definitely closer to ukraine. Just like entire east slovakia. So you didn't loose anything while the czechs rather lost you or you the czechs.
@@TheDovahkiin97 eeeh well if we think about Rusyns... Then probably because they use cyrillic but it is surprisingly close to Slovak Language and I can understand Rusyn Language witn minor issues if spoken and it is now your territory because Soviets just stole it from Czechoslovakia... While it was agreed to have the same Pre-WW2 territories
And it might look like they are more ukrainian because of assimilation from what I heard but Rusyns are basically like Mixed Slovaks and Ukrainians even tho they are their own ethnicity
And Eastern Slovakia is definetly NOT close to Ukraine at all...
@@TheDovahkiin97 And about Czechs.. Well we rather wanted to be independent because many Slovaks were unhappy to live in the shadow of Czechs.
But now...many Czechs and Slovaks and even young want to recreate Czechoslovakia
Good job!
There must be some honesty here. Yellow was better.
Heh, your opinion I suppose my friend
What's so bad about a facebook group?
People are spreading questionable misinformation and no educated persons are around to care and point out bullshit.
@@TheDovahkiin97 Okay I get it now
Stop saying "white croats". Modern Rusyns most likely have nothing to do with "white croatia" as it was in eastern/southern bohemia and middle silesia.
And it only turned "white" (north) when "red" (south) balkan-croatia was established.
Rusyns however have much to do with the "horvatians" who migrated to bohemia/silesia in the 550s/560s and became "harvatians". This is when (among others) the territory of the modern rusyns became known as "Great Horvatija" just because the new bohemian/silesian one was smaller.
Note how im using "horvats", as "croats" is a latinized monstrosity only applicable to modern balkan-croatians while "horvats" or "harvats" makes sense for the other entities.
Regarding the eastern slovaks: those suffered heavy ethnic consolidation through the centuries which is also evident in their dialect as Eastern slovak is considerably different from Central and Western slovak in its phonology, morphology and vocabulary, set apart by a stronger connection to Polish and Rusyn.
Also Avars took the "horvatians" from the modern rusyn regions and made them settle the duchy of slavonia which is the modern northern half of croatia and a stripe of northern bosnia down to the town of tuzla.
The croatians south of it who founded the duchy of dalmatia (and later the kingdom) and expanded over eastern istria to srebrenica were the "harvatians" who came from "white harvatija" in the 630s (called by the roman emperor).
All of this dialectal hurvat/harvat/horvat/hervat bullshit resulted in modern standard croatian just cutting this letter and calling it unified "Hrvatska".
Embrace your ancient roots and your old alanian ethonym "Horvat" 🇭🇷 so you can be free from the only other left exonym "Rusyn" which was made to connect you to the swedish varangian 830s "rus" exonym (finnish) in the first place.
Do you really want an exonym (rusyn) which came from an exonym (rus) to be your modern ethonym?
The ukrainains at least have an ethonym which developed from the inside to describe its political status as a borderland (literal translation of "U-krajina").
Ukrainians only hate "rusyn" because of this "rus" connection which implies that they also belong to them as they are in the middle between the RUSyns and RUSsians.
Confused northern slavs...
First of all,there's significant evidence hinting as to this place being called "White Croatia". The croats you are reffering to are the Red Croats. We don't exactly know when and why they migrated to the balkans but in all honesty,the alanian theory in of itself is flawed on many levels.
@@TheSlavicChannel please share this "significant evidence" and the flaws on "many levels" of the alanian theory (which isn't even a theory anymore).
Even the Mojmirids were described as alans by arab geographers. And arab geographers were very accurate.
The etymology of "horvat" can linguistically only be traced over language features which are only present in old ossetian (alanian).
And many more indicators.
You are talking about them like they were not one people and as they already knew "yo what's up team white? We are team red and up to migrate to the balkans".
This doesn't make any sense as those color labels were applied much later.
Also we know why they migrated.
As i said:
1. Ancestors of northern croatians came from carpathia with avars in the 560s.
while
2. Ancestors of southern croatians came from bohemia/silesia in the 630s because the roman emperor called for them to attack the avars and slavs in order to stop their raids. They came to bohemia/silesia from carpathia in the 550s/560s.
And btw. "white" means north and carpathia is not north of croatia while eastern bohemia is directly north of the first exclusive balkan croatian settlements in northern dalmatia.
So if white croatia was in carpathia, red croatia would have ended up in bulgaria.
An avatar with a fancy pan-slavic flag doesn't make you an expert on any slavic related topics. However it does make your political ideology visible.
Which is a bad thing considering that basically any ideology is a threat to science and research.
The combination of communism and pan-slavism in former yugoslavia literally encouraged the imprisonments and murders of croatian iranologists as their work threatened the crumbling ideologies.
A counter example would be the polish sarmatism movement which was indeed full of bullshit but the core message was right and it's not about how it was delivered but rather about the fact that it managed to exist in the first place:
Alans and other skytho-sarmatian tribes had a SIGNIFICANT impact on the ethnogenesis and basically establishment of what is today known as "slavic".
If you don't believe me just ask yourself where the skythians and sarmatians are today. In ancient times they used to control the entire steppe before any turkic tribes appeared. Where are they now? How can it be that ossetians are the only leftovers? Well they disappeared so instantly because they willingly melted with the proto-balto-slavs and this created proto-slavic. This is why proto-balto-slavic doesn't look very close to modern slavic while it does look like arhaic lithuanian. How could it considering that the linguistic period before proto-slavic is literally called PRE-slavic?
However modern slavic nations are still very opposed to anything not "purely slavic" (which is extremely dumb as slavic could not develop on its own) and that's why there are still "disputes".
There is a VERY BIG difference between a slavist and a pan-slavist.
@Dimitrij Fedorov no problem.
And yeah the identity changing to "Horvat" was more a joke. Anyone should have the possibility to identify as anything he wants. But history is history and we know that even in the 19th century people still identified as horvats in ukraine and poland.
Also this:
en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C#Old_East_Slavic
Is much more likely than what you said especially because we know that in the beginning the "rus" name was only used for ilmenian slavs before it spreaded to the kievan south.
Etymological research is based on fulfilling the criteria of formal derivability, historical plausibility and semantic probability.
None of those fits to your proposal. Sry.
Example:
Only the etymology deriving *Xъrvatъ from Iranian
*harw-at- „guardian, protector“ fulfills the criteria. This name was borrowed into Proto-Slavic from Proto-Ossetic or Alanian, because only in that Iranian language there is a change of *a to *u before a syllable containing *w.
The "Słownik staropolski" dictionary even contains "charwat" (you read it the same as "Harvat") as "guardian".
From like hundreds of etymological proposals for the croatian name only this one fullfils every criteria and lines up with basically everything else from a historic point of view.
@Dimitrij Fedorov we agree on (1).
I don't agree with (2) until you provide a source of the 'Rus' mentioning before the 830s when swedish varangians entered the game in finnish/slavic borderlands.
The fact that it's present in basically any other modern language as it is in latin doesn't change anything.
You can adopt any exonym in your language and someone else can hear you say it and translate it into theirs.
For example the bulgarians were also majorly slavic tribes ruled by a few bulgars. However they adopted their name just like any other language adopted their self identification.
A different fact:
The ancestors of croatians settled the balkans until the 630s roughly 200 years before the rus state formed so they had no contact with each other. This is why the croatian variant of the "Lech, Czech and Rus" Legend is the only one without Rus but instead "Leh, Čeh and Meh". All the other northern slavic languages adopted the Rus label which the eastern slavs adopted for themselves.
@Dimitrij Fedorov the slavs did not yet use this word for themselves in 830 because this word was used by finns to describe the swedes (not slavs!) who established the rus state. Only later the slavic population adopted this name (probably from the varangians who adopted it from the finns beforehand).
Old East Slavic Русь (Rusĭ) (whence Byzantine Greek Ρωσσία (Rōssía)), the original form of the endonym of Russians that originally referred to a tribe of Varangians, is likely borrowed from Finnic, but is ultimately from the same Germanic source (compare the etymology section of ryssä (“(derogatory) Russian”), from Swedish ryss, from the aforementioned Slavic word). Samic words, such as Northern Sami Ruoŧŧa, are borrowings from Finnic.
The rus ethonym did not develop in proto or common slavic.
Rusyn didn't develop in the 1200-1400s because it was present from the very rus beginning as it described someone who is part of the rus state:
"A single individual is called a русинъ (rusinŭ), whence modern Russian руси́н (rusín)".
And beeing part of the state was not connected with ethnicity back then.
You could be a horvatian-русинъ for example.
Some horvats became русинъи after vladimir the great subjected them in 992 but they were still described as horvats when they participated in the siege of constantinople. Only after centuries of ethnic consolidation they forgot about their original tribal ethonym.