is this triangle even possible??

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 136

  • @andyneeman4378
    @andyneeman4378 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +244

    I feel like some checking of the final results would be useful, since there really aren't 3 solution, let alone 7 (as the video suggests):
    - All three solutions in the case of x=0,+/- pi give us a degenerate triangle with side lengths (0,0,0), which some might not consider as a proof for the existence of a triangle with the given form.
    - Both of the solution in the case x=+/- pi give a triangle with one side of length zero, and another side with a negative length, the possibilities being either (1,0,-1) or (-1,0,1). again, both of these sets of side length uphold the Pythagorean theorem, but they do not in any way prove the existence of a triangle with the wanted form (if we allow for side lengths o zero, this case be corrected by taking the absolute value of each side).
    - Only in the case of x=+/- pi/6, +/- 5*pi/6 do we get an actual solution. The given values of x correspond to side lengths of (1/2.sqrt(3)/2,1), (-1/2,-sqrt(3)/2,-1),(1/2,-sqrt(3)/2,1),(-1/2,sqrt(3)/2,-1). All solutions except one have negative side length (which again, might make sense if placed on some grid, but has absolutely no manning in the strictly geometric problem).
    I would say that a correct solution to the question in this video would be: Yes, a solution does exist, which is a triangle with side lengths (1/2.sqrt(3)/2,1), given only by x=pi/6 (assuming x on the interval (-pi, pi)).
    I get that the point of the video is mostly to show the beautiful connection between complex numbers and the trigonometric multi-angle formulas for sin and cos. But still, it is important to remember what the initial question was.

    • @Jullan-M
      @Jullan-M 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +68

      In other words, that was not a good place to stop. Good analysis!

    • @andyneeman4378
      @andyneeman4378 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@Jullan-Mthx

    • @curtmcd
      @curtmcd 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      Thank you for finishing the video by resolving the part that makes it interesting. Failing to answer the actual question would give a low score on an exam.

    • @andrewnorcross9486
      @andrewnorcross9486 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      I agree. I didn't do the analysis you did, I just thought: x=0, that's not a triangle

    • @wannabeactuary01
      @wannabeactuary01 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      As it was about right triangles on a plane which must have internal angles adding up to 180 degrees or pi radians then
      5 pi /6 + pi /2 = 8 pi /6 > pi can be dismissed leaving the answer x= pi/6 as you suggested.

  • @tubebrocoli
    @tubebrocoli 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +271

    umm is the thumbnail wrong? ^^v

    • @JordanBiserkov
      @JordanBiserkov 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

      Yes, the hypotenuse should be sin(3x), not sin(2x)

    • @the_multus
      @the_multus 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +48

      My guess, that's a bait

    • @HeriksYT
      @HeriksYT 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      It's wrong but also on purpose I guess : D

    • @tedr.5978
      @tedr.5978 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      Click bait thumb nail = not watching the video nor anything else from this person.

    • @Erekose2023
      @Erekose2023 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      @@tedr.5978 or two other farmore likely scenarios...
      1) it's a legitimate mistake, which happens.
      2) it's deliberate in order to get people thinking for themselves. (akin to the deliberate mistakles in ye olde meccano instruction booklets)
      If you give up watching these videos on the basis of this thumbnail, maybe maths isn't for you?

  • @antonryzhov
    @antonryzhov 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +72

    Triangle sides must obviously be positive, so sin(x), sin(2x) and sin(3x) cannot be negative or zero.
    If x = pi/2 then sin(2x) = 0, which doesn't make a triangle.
    The only possible case is when x=pi/6. The triangle sides are sin(x) = 1/2, sin(2x) = sqrt(3)/2, sin(3x) = 1.

    • @fajr5507
      @fajr5507 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Well spotted

    • @fahrenheit2101
      @fahrenheit2101 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      If we allowed for degenerate triangles, then you'd need to go a step further in the pi/2 case, and the 0 case actually works.

    • @Apollorion
      @Apollorion 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      How about x=13pi/6 ? Triangle sides would be the same as for x=pi/6

    • @fahrenheit2101
      @fahrenheit2101 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Apollorion Yes, of course, since sin is 2pi periodic you trivially have an infinite family of solutions, but upon restricting to a reasonable domain, say -pi to pi, you don't have any redundant ones.

  • @JordanBiserkov
    @JordanBiserkov 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +26

    This was not a good place to stop.
    When talking about triangle side lengths, we should only consider the positive values of sin(x). So only sin(x) = 1/2 and sin(x) = 1.
    From there we get x = pi/6, 5pi/6, or pi/2, a.k.a. 30, 90, 150 degrees.
    BUT!
    When x = 90 degrees, 2x = 180 degrees => sin (2x) = 0, not a side length.
    When x = 150 degrees, 2x = 300 degress => sin (2x) = -SQRT(3)/2 < 0, not a side length.
    Finally, when x = 30 degrees, 2x = 60 degrees, 3x = 90 degrees,
    so we get sin(x) = 1/2, sin(2x) = sqrt(3)/2, sin(3x) = 1,
    and 1/2^2 + (sqrt(3)/2) = 1/4 + 3/4 = 1 = 1^2.
    So there is only 1 valid x = pi/6 a.k.a. 30 degrees, and not the 3+4+2 = 9 solutions shown on the board.

    • @wannabeactuary01
      @wannabeactuary01 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Oh it was - the amount of engagement on this solution has been an education in itself.

  • @pwmiles56
    @pwmiles56 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

    Using the sine rule with angles A, B, C
    sin(x)/sin(A) = sin(2x)/sin(B) = sin(3x)/sin(C)
    So x=A=30 deg, B=60 deg, C=90 deg is a solution

    • @vladthemagnificent9052
      @vladthemagnificent9052 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      Came down to comments to write exactly this.

    • @dan-florinchereches4892
      @dan-florinchereches4892 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      This is epic I used the sine sum and difference formula by moving sin^2x to the right. This is ingenious and you already know which angle is the right one

  • @rikilemi4231
    @rikilemi4231 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    best clickbait thumbnail so far..worked like magic.
    I clicked only because it showed hypotenuse to be sin(2x)

  • @byronwatkins2565
    @byronwatkins2565 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    At 7:18, that should be 3 sin(x)-4 sin^3(x).

    • @jackinprogress
      @jackinprogress 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Glad I’m not the only one to have noticed!

    • @mohamedgifted4493
      @mohamedgifted4493 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Came to say this. Haven't finished the video yet but I hope this doesn't effect the end result 🤣

    • @mohamedgifted4493
      @mohamedgifted4493 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Oh lol he fixed it after 10 seconds 😂

  • @AlexandreRibeiroXRV7
    @AlexandreRibeiroXRV7 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +43

    Are we counting degenerate cases? Because if sin(x) = 0, then all we'd get is a point...

    • @feedbackzaloop
      @feedbackzaloop 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      We also can't have lengths of 1,0,-1 for x=pi/2

  • @張謙-n3l
    @張謙-n3l 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    If we only accept positive numbers as the sides, excluding 0 and negative values, then sinx = 1/2 and x = pi/6 + 2npi is the only solution, the length of the three sides will be 1/2, sqrt(3)/2 and 1 respectively

  • @maxhagenauer24
    @maxhagenauer24 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    x = pi/6 seems to be the only solution that would really make sense as the others would give you either side lengths of 0 or negative side lengths which wouldn't make an actual triangle.

  • @dneary
    @dneary 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    I don't think x = 0 or +/- pi counts as a right triangle - side lengths would be (0,0,0). With x = +/- pi/2 you get side lengths (1,0,1) and (-1,0,-1) respectively - again, hard to call those "real" right triangles. Restricting to positive real values for the sides, pi/6 (giving sides 1/2, \sqrt{3}/2, 1) is the only one.

    • @jneal4154
      @jneal4154 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I kept doing the algebra in my head trying to understand where the extra -2sin³x came from. 😅

    • @dan-florinchereches4892
      @dan-florinchereches4892 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I would imagine the sides as vectors and for -π/6 the triangle is mirrored but you got point

  • @DouglasKubler
    @DouglasKubler 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Easy problem. For ANY triangle with angles A,B,C sin(A)=Sin(B+C) , sin(B)=sin(A+C), & sin(C) = sin(A+B),
    because A+B+C=180 degrees. For Michael's problem 1x+2x+3x= 6x = 180, thus x = 30 degrees => 30-60-90 triangle
    Euclidean terms: the measure of an exterior angle of a triangle is equal to the sum of the measures of the two opposite interior angles.

    • @DouglasKubler
      @DouglasKubler 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Thumbnail is possible 5x=180=> x=36 => Isosceles triangle 36-72-72

    • @3dindian
      @3dindian 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What?

    • @DouglasKubler
      @DouglasKubler 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@3dindian what what? maybe you need sin(z)=sin(Pi-z). for angle z, pi-z is the exterior angle

  • @MooImABunny
    @MooImABunny 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    of these, the only valid (non-degenerate) triangle is the one with x=π/6, and we get the triangle with sides 1/2, √3/2, 1. you might notice that the hypotenuse is 1, so the small angle there is actually x. 2x=π/3=π/2-π/6, so sin(2x) = sin(π/2-x)=cos(x). 3x=π/2.
    The other two have sidelengths 0,0,0, and 1,0,1

  • @seanhunter111
    @seanhunter111 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    The thumbnail I saw was an isosceles triangle with a right angle in the bas which hurts my brain

    • @feedbackzaloop
      @feedbackzaloop 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It was not denoted as the right angle though...

    • @Thebiggestgordon
      @Thebiggestgordon 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Let the short side = 0, then both angles = 90degrees. Easy peasy!

  • @randomjin9392
    @randomjin9392 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I think the approach is an overkill. Move sin²(2x) to the right and use sum to product to get 2sin(x/2)cos(5x/2)∙2sin(5x/2)cos(x/2) = sin(x)sin(5x) = sin²(x). We know sin(x) ≠ 0 leaving the only option of sin(x) = sin(5x) so x = 𝜋n/2 or x = (2n+1)𝜋/6, but the first one results in degraded triangle (it's equivalent to 1² + 0² = 1²) and for the second one we must throw out solutions where 2n+1 is divisible by 3 to avoid the same issue. In the end, x₁ = (6k+1)𝜋/6 and x₂ = (6k+5)𝜋/6. Only x = 𝜋/6 yields sin(x), sin(2x), sin(3x) > 0. It's probably possible to correct the general form to ensure positive lengths, but I didn't bother.

    • @dan-florinchereches4892
      @dan-florinchereches4892 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I moved sin(X)*sin(X) for the sine sum and difference formula as it allows you to simplify by sin^2(2x) and you get just 1=2cos(2x).
      I am surprised you and Michael toughed it out through the calculations

  • @afuyeas9914
    @afuyeas9914 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    "Check your answers!" - math teachers, everywhere

  • @mikip3242
    @mikip3242 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Only one of these solutions, x = pi/6 is acceptable for a true triangle. The constraint imposed here is to comply with the pythagorean theorem but you would also like to add the constraint of all sides been larger than zero since they are lenghts of a polygon.

  • @not_vinkami
    @not_vinkami 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    The x=π/6=30° solution, with sides sin30°=1/2, sin60°=√3/2 and sin90°=1, also happens to be a 30°-60°-90° right triangle.
    It's not magic, it's literally one of the definitions of sine

  • @chrisbarrington108
    @chrisbarrington108 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    If we are asking is such a right triangle ‘possible’, the one possible solution is to have the largest angle, 3x=90deg… Hence x would be pi/6. Then the sides would be 1/2, root(3)/2, and 1, which works, so it is definitely possible. Is it the only solution?
    TBH I also solved it first using the double and triple angle formulae, as you did, and apart from x=pi/6+2K*pi, all of the others either are degenerate, or give negative sides… eg x=5*pi/6 gives sides: 1/2, -root(3)/2, and 1. Nice problem though. Thank you

  • @GiornoYoshikage
    @GiornoYoshikage 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I prefered to use the difference of squares, sine sum and difference formulas applied to `sin(3x)` and `sin(x)` to simplify the equation quickly

  • @g10royalle
    @g10royalle 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Thumbnail is clickbait, cause it’s wrong

  • @drmitchellsphysicschannel2955
    @drmitchellsphysicschannel2955 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Is it a good place to stop? Maybe useful to mention that only sin(x) = 1/2 gives solutions in which all the sides of the triangle are non-zero!

  • @renyxadarox
    @renyxadarox 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    try the same task with sin(3x), sin(4x) and sin(5x), since (3, 4, 5) is the most known Pythagorean triple.

  • @Re-lx1md
    @Re-lx1md 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Engagement farming with intentional mistakes in thumbnail 🤮

  • @theartisticactuary
    @theartisticactuary 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Surely there should be a last stage in which you check all three sides of the triangle are >0?
    In which case x=pi/6 is the only answer.

  • @Qermaq
    @Qermaq 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Curious where you're going with this. Per the thumbnail, we have a triangle with sides sin(x), sin(2x) and sin(2x). This is a 36-72-72-degree isosceles triangle in planar geometry. It appears to be right in the picture, but of course that would mean sin(x) = 0 per Pythagoras and we'd have a degenerate triangle with area 0.
    Edit: And the actual problem is not what's in the thumbnail. Now we clearly have a 30-60-90 triangle and sin(x) = 1/2, sin(2x) = sqrt(3)/2 and sin(3x) = 1. Still curious....
    Edit 2: sin(3x) is opposite a right angle per the construction. This means sin(3x) = 1. The only angle we can have in a triangle that has sin 1 is pi/2 (as all usable angles must be strictly between 0 and pi), so 3x = pi/2. This means x = pi/6. If we accept the basics of triangles, this is the only possible solution. I mean, it was fun, but it's kinda like a theme park safari-venture ride. You wind up back where you started except with a sunburn at best.

  • @Nzargnalphabet
    @Nzargnalphabet 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I did a simple graph of sin(3x) compared to sqrt(sin(x)^2+sin(2x)^2), the pythagorean one looks like infinite teeth, but taking the pythagorean sin function to greater lengths ended me up with a whole other rabbit hole, so thanks! also pi/6 is one of the infinite solutions.

  • @RaidenTh
    @RaidenTh 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    That was not a good place to stop

  • @adipy8912
    @adipy8912 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    BPRP did the same question 1 year ago. Love the different ways of solving it.

  • @watsonjunior85
    @watsonjunior85 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    sin x can't be negative because is a length

    • @watsonjunior85
      @watsonjunior85 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      and if you remove the answers that give a 0 for a side the only answer is pi/6

  • @cantcommute
    @cantcommute 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    is the thumbnail typo actually ingenious clickbait or smth. i was so confused lmao

  • @andrewparker8636
    @andrewparker8636 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I approached this quite differently. Since the title of the video only asks for existence, I did the following. Let f(x)=sin^2x+sin^2(2x)-sin^2(3x). This function is clearly continuous. If we can find points where it's >=0 and

    • @andyneeman4378
      @andyneeman4378 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      This is actually a very neat proof, but you are missing some important details in your proof. Your proof works only if the two points we find for the IVT are on the open range (0,pi/3), other wise you can a redundant case (all sides are of length zero), or cases with negative valued sides. Still, this is the most creative solution i saw for this problem, so props to you.

  • @nerdatmath
    @nerdatmath 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    ISTM the only valid answer is sin x = 1/2. So the triangle's side lengths are 1/2, √3/2, and 1. The other values of sin x result in nonpositive side lengths.

  • @RexxSchneider
    @RexxSchneider 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Following some comments in different threads, I'm going to offer an alternative solution. Using the sine rule, a/sinA = b/sinB = c/sinC. on the triangle gives us a = sin(x), b = sin(2x) and c = sin(3x). Note than the acute angles A and B are clearly less than 90°, which means that arcsin(sinA) has a single value, namely A, in that range, and the same is true for B.
    Now we have sin(x)/sinA = sin(2x)/sinB = sin(3x)/sinC, and the only way for that to be true is if B = 2A and C = 3A, by taking arcsin of the top and bottom of each fraction.
    So A + 2A + 3A = 180°, making A = 30°, hence B = 60° and C = 90°. And that's the right-angled triangle we want.
    [Edit:] Oops! Taking arcsin of the top and bottom of a fraction does not preserve its value, so there's a huge flaw in my argument. Oddly enough the result turns out to be true in this case, but I'm yet to figure out why.

    • @andyneeman4378
      @andyneeman4378 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I've replied to you on our original discussion, but i have a new wonder. If we exclude the last sentence of your comment, didn't you prove somehow that every triangle with side lengths (sin(x),sin(2x),sin(3x)) has to be a 30-60-90 triangle, which isn't correct?
      I actually think you found a very cool proof, but you got the order wrong at the end., and the correct order should be something like: If we require that C=90deg then we must have A=30deg and B=60deg. Since this happens to uphold the requirement A+B+C=180deg, then this triangle can exist.

    • @RexxSchneider
      @RexxSchneider 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@andyneeman4378 I thought I proved that every triangle with side lengths sin(x), sin(2x), sin(3x) _that is a right triangle_ has to be 30-60-90. but you may be right that I assumed the condition, rather than using it!
      Thanks for the interesting comments.

    • @andyneeman4378
      @andyneeman4378 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@RexxSchneider You should also know there is an inherent flaw in your argument, which i explained in the original thread. This has been a very fun, interesting, and respectful exchange, so thank you.

  • @donaldasayers
    @donaldasayers 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Isn't a 30, 60, 90 triangle a trivially obvious solution?

  • @jaimeduncan6167
    @jaimeduncan6167 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Clearly sin(x)

  • @seyedmasihayat8426
    @seyedmasihayat8426 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    when Sin(x)

  • @fahrenheit2101
    @fahrenheit2101 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

    A bit lazy to not check the solutions against some obvious conditions... like non-degenerate triangles, or more importantly, *non-negative side lengths*

    • @GroundThing
      @GroundThing 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It felt like a prank, especially ending it with what felt like a wink and a nod in the "definitely make this a right triangle" line.

    • @fahrenheit2101
      @fahrenheit2101 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @GroundThing hmm, maybe - even so, I think that approach isn't ideal, since now it's assuming the whole viewership will pick up on the joke, and pick up on the fact that not all the cases work

  • @TacoDude314
    @TacoDude314 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    1:50 Horseshoe!

  • @Measure_differentiable
    @Measure_differentiable 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    45 45 90 would satisfay this
    The thumbnail was wrong

  • @penfelyn
    @penfelyn 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    wrrreeeeee wrong thumbnail piccc!!!!!111 love this triangle btw

  • @paulwatson746
    @paulwatson746 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I dont agree with the, "That's a good place to stop" statement. A good place to stop would be after feeding the answers back in and exploring the significance of the answers.

  • @alihaydar728
    @alihaydar728 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    So this right triangle can only be the 30-60-90 right triangle

  • @davidseed2939
    @davidseed2939 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Michael, i think you need to
    a) fix the thumbnail
    b) don’t stop before eliminating degenerate triangles
    c) comment on the application of the sine rule .

  • @j9dz2sf
    @j9dz2sf 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    De Moivre's formula.

  • @DaneBrooke
    @DaneBrooke 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I am not sure what you call it, but the "teaser" which invites people to view this video has the hypotenuse as equal to the base as equal to 2x. Obviously it would be nice to see that fixed.

  • @charleyhoward4594
    @charleyhoward4594 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    is it math wise ok to just ditch the imaginary parts ?

  • @cosimobaldi03
    @cosimobaldi03 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Dude the thumbnail is extremely wrong

  • @peterlasser
    @peterlasser 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Right triangle: 0 < x < 1/2 π

  • @martincohen8991
    @martincohen8991 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    WHy not just use the sin addition formula?

  • @jesusalej1
    @jesusalej1 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You must factor out sin^2 x

  • @alipourzand6499
    @alipourzand6499 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    4:40 again a bug in the matrix 😀

  • @otakurocklee
    @otakurocklee 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thumbnail was false.

  • @Erekose2023
    @Erekose2023 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I realised the issue with degenrate cases from the get go.
    but as for wether this was a good place to stop, without discussing the degenrate cases, I think it WAS a good place to stop, as it generated discussion and thinking about it in the comments. Which is a good thing for people to do, isn;'t it?
    And I have a feeling he's done solutions with such degenrate cases before so he'd be treading old ground.

  • @scathingpoo2477
    @scathingpoo2477 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Oh the thumbnail is not representative of the video. Bye.

  • @erfanmohagheghian707
    @erfanmohagheghian707 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    This was probably the worst video I ever watched from you. The thumbnail is wrong, the derivation of double angle identity felt so redundant (the triple thing would suffice) and you don't comment on the acceptable values of sin(x) as a side length at all.

  • @mohitkrjain9396
    @mohitkrjain9396 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Umm the thumbnail seems incorrect, and ideally sin x=0 shouldn't be a solution, that would be a degenerate case!

    • @fahrenheit2101
      @fahrenheit2101 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Worse still, try and see what the sin x = 1 case gives...

    • @red0guy
      @red0guy 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      And - signs for triangle lebghts...

  • @get2113
    @get2113 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The discussion below is as interesting and educational as the problem itself.
    (I wish his problems were better motivated, but that might be too hard given the need for something new each day.)

  • @tamarkan
    @tamarkan 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Nice trigonometry gymnastics.. 😊

  • @DavidWang-v7u
    @DavidWang-v7u 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    You got it buddy, that was it. True to the educational system, true to mathematics.