Secular Morality Does Not Exist | Luke - Arizona | Atheist Experience 22.35
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- The Atheist Experience episode 22.35 for September 2, 2018, with Tracie Harris and Phil Session.
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"I can't act right unless it's written in my magic book". That's hella scary.
In his case, it's a good job he has a magic book. Some people need to be told what's right and wrong.
It's his slaves I feel sorry for...
This is why I feel this is the most appalling argument against atheism. They are basically implying that they are terrified of this concept, and in turn atheists. If we do not have a rule book, there is nothing requiring anyone to be good, and therefore the world will descend into chaos. It's small minded and pathetic.
Why is that scary? Without laws, rules or whatever, humans as a whole would probably all be living in tribes, raping, interbreeding, murdering and pillaging each other. You guys love to shit on Christianity while living safely within it's laws, social structures and hegemony.
May I ask you, why is it in Christian (influenced) nations that polygamy is seen as disgusting, vile and abnormal, while Muslim and pre- communist china religions actively encourage men to have multiples wives?
@@raptorz8917 Oh, christian polygamy. Like the mormons?
If the only thing that determines right and wrong from him, and the only thing tht holds him back from bringing unspeakable suffering to others, is the word of a book of primitive superstitions, then he is not a good or decent person in the slightest; he is merely a violent and blood-hungry freak on a remarkably thin leash.
This guy wasn't stupid, he was simply desperate to misunderstand. The conversation wasn't in good faith.
I believe Disingenuous is the word Matt uses in this context.
@Thomas Well stated.
I think he was being intentionally ignorant to drive the point that “without god there is no morality” because lowly humans are too stupid to know what to do with themselves without some angry father figure standing over them.
"desperate to misunderstand"... Love it. I shall be stealing that phrase...
This also isn't the first conversation he's had with Tracie, nor the first one where he's been deliberately dishonest. The other time Tracie actually blatantly called him out on it.
"I'm a horrible selfish person myself"
We agree Luke. At least, you made one honest statement!
I love that Tracie steps over the obvious traps the guy is trying to set up. Very nicely done
Luke was being kind of dumb tho...
@@haudace Dishonest, mate. It does a disservice to folks who actually can’t or haven’t learned something to call him dumb lol he literally SCOFFED at the idea of his ability to judge things as a moral agent, knowing he was just being an obtuse asshole. 🤦♂️ 😆
Agreed! But tbh, he was setting mouse traps and tracie's a t-rex!
I miss her from the show.
@@TrippyKenpachi me too
Luke is why people lock their doors.
It's called "obscurantism." It's when religious people deliberately waste the time and energy of the thinking honest people. To grind us down. It is a practice centuries in practice.
@@MultiCappie A lot of callers practice that.
Indeed ! .................
@Andrew Sykes People can make up their own little world if they wish. The problem comes when they think everybody else should join them in it.
@Andrew Sykes What is a douch nozzle? I need scientific evidence of this nozzle.
without biblical morality i might not know that keeping slaves locked up in the basement was moral
It's true. Just hope that they don't die right away after you beat them and you're all good!
Lol I love you guys
I let them have two beatingless days each month ..............@@SumoRabbitOfDoom
I`ll take russians, cheap ..............@@labella9291
So do a Money-offering to ME ...................@@jesust6463
You know Luke was really annoying if Tracy hung up on him. She has a lot of patience on this show.
Well, he started just outright lying at the end. What was she supposed to do?
Yeah, in the patience category, Tracy is the anti-Matt.
You might even call her "anti-Matt-er." (Oof.)
I would have hung up within 2 minutes .
@@Skindoggiedog Luke was lying from the start. What he claims Matt said is false. Luke twists everything into an ugly Gordian knot. He's a troll.
Tracie was brilliant here.
When is she not? :)
She did a good job of simplifying a conversation.
i can’t stand her
@@kpritch24 She is my favorite.
@@kpritch24 may I ask why?
People of faith truly can be blind, deaf, and dumb. This makes me shiver because I used to think the same. I,m so happy I deconstructed. Awesome show.
If personal happy is your goal in life, sure.
I agree with you. I also used to think that way, and the shiver is from pure revulsion. I’m so much happier now.
@@Andrea.1tree I totally feel the same. Happy holidays.
@@KeytarKris To you as well. ⛄️
@@Andrea.1tree 🌲 ⭐️ 🎁
After listening to this guy talk in five different videos, I am convinced he's not dishonest nor stupid, he's just insane.
He’s just an obviously intelligent person who is deeply indoctrinated. Likely from the time of a child. The religious community is not known for their kindness to anyone who questions their beliefs. Especially a growing child. One incessant diatribe force fed to me as a child was “train them up in the way they should go, and even when they’re old they will not depart from it”. They either break them in, or break them down.
He sure was persistent in his misunderstanding: "So you're saying [X]" -- "No I'm not saying [X]." -- "So you're saying [X]" -- No I'm not saying [X]." -- "So you're saying [X]" After the third or fourth repetition, that seems more than a little deliberate.
@@Andrea.1tree I highly disagree on the intelligent part.
If you're not capable of untying the things he is you're not only stupid you're also dangerous
@@scottc1857 Indoctrination warps the mind. Some are never able to extricate themselves from it. It’s a process that takes years to reverse. Shorter with therapy. However, the person has to want it.
This guy... calls in with a morality gotcha and only succeeded in demonstrating that he doesn't know what morality is. Calls like this one are pure gold.
Tracie is so sharp. I really like her way of thinking.
It's easy to declare secularity doesn't exist when your definition includes God as a necessity
Do these people not see how that's dishonest?
Secular morality IS morality.
Yellow bananas ARE bananas.
Red roses ARE roses.
Ten points!
But but but... Blue roses aren't red roses!
Exactly.
Unfortunately, theists are the reason for the divide in definition.
That's so embarrassing. "I would have no idea how to distinguish what is right and wrong, if not for my book." I'm so ashamed that I was ever affiliated with these people.
“Show me your god”
Dingdingdingdingdingding!!!!
"Show me your god" SURVEY SAYS
XXXX
Marky Mark ... Yep. He lost on that one... But don’t worry Luke, we’ll give you a home version of the game, and thank you for playing... Now please GTFO...!
Over 2000 years of trying, NO ONE has EVER showed anyone ANY "GOD" ! ...................
@@ralfhaggstrom9862 more than 2000 years, older religions existed and still exist, a d they still haven't succeeded
I believe he was incapable of separating morality from an established code of morality. That "if I'm starting over I need to know" bit was literally saying that he wanted to be told what all the rules are at the outset so he'll always know how to behave. That's frightening.
Yeah, I came to a similar conclusion as the call went on. I initially thought he was _just_ floundering because his presup, script wasn't followed enough, and he wasn't able to properly set up his "you have no moral standard!" rebuttal...
But, I am inclined to agree that he seemed to be genuinely confused because his assertion that there is no secular morality, is absolutely correct in the way that he was framing it.
When he was agreed with that there isn't this listed rule that secularists know and point to, but then the point is being made that we utilize socially evolved universal metrics, on an individual basis, he seemed to be legitimately incapable of following.
I feel the benefit of doubt is fair here, I think, _he genuinely heard_ what amounted to completely contradictory statements from his perspective. I do think that was due to his refusal/inability to just engage with the points as though he wasn't a presuppy boy, though.
I don’t think Luke is dumb, but I do think he is dishonest.
@John Ploopy Is your real name Luke?
Religious not dishonest, there's a tiny difference, one is intentional the other is gullible.
anonymousSWE yea I agree.. anyone who can’t grasp simple concepts of morality is questionable
He's worse than dumb; he's incapable of learning how to reason logically to support a simple position or concept.
He is just reciting religious arguments , and try to twist some sort of objectivity into morality. Tracie was patient and reasonable , he couldn't trick her lol
Tracie, you had outstanding patience. It wasn't difficult at all.
Innate morality is just beyond the pale for him. Like the fingers on his hand or the nose on his face. His ability to think critically evaporated like common sense in a creation museum.
Hey Ryan - do you live in Oregon? If so, you know me. DUDE!
Tracy: show me your god.
Luke: And I would say show me your morality.
Can you avoid a question more directly than this, Luke? ANSWER THE FREAKING QUESTION!
Caller cannot answer Tracy's question, so he has no other option than to dodge the question.
This is Tracie at her absolute finest moment. Brilliantly argued
'if I start with your side being impossible, then your wrong, therefore god exists.'
He obviously wants a morality handed to him in theform of easy to understand rules he can apply. He does not want a morality where he has to think about his actions and the consequences of those actions.
Gary Heron, I agree, assuming he was acting in good faith in his argument, which I actually doubt a little.
But, given what he said and how he responded to Tracie, he wanted a list of rules. This good. That bad.
Tracie was trying to show him that secular morality is a framework, because not every possible scenario can be be spelled out in a rule book. That way you can apply principles to make a decision if a given action is moral, immoral, or amoral. And as she pointed out over and over, each person is free to act how they want, but acting in an immoral way may bring sanctions from the community.
Luke’s position fails on two fronts, because both rely on a theistic view of things. First, when he says all morality is from a god. Which Tracie handled perfectly by saying okay, then we have nothing to talk about, because I don’t believe your first premise. Second when he kept insisting that actions are inherently moral or immoral regardless of any consequence. This is a theistic construct. Actions are moral or immoral because of their consequences, how they affect other people and what the response of others (individually or the community at large) is likely to be to your action.
Tracie refused to allow his (straw man) restatements of her position stand, which completely shut down his arguments.
A lawyer asked Jesus what was most important regarding Biblical law and he replied "treat your neighbor as yourself" and further stated that all Biblical law stems from that concept. Is that simple enough for you?
@@sweynforkbeard8857 I fail to see how treating your neighbor like yourself gets you to rules about keeping slaves or killing homosexuals.
@@kentonbaird1723 Far from it. I wish to have an agreed upon rule set regarding what is moral and immoral, and not some ever changing opinion inflicted upon us by liberals who wish to destroy American society in their relentless quest to fashion society as a reflection of their own ideas (which are constantly wrong).
Christianity provides that social cohesion. Christianity provides those social rules.
Atheism presents a moral vacuum to the world. Morality is whatever the individual decides for himself.
The absence of an agreed upon rule set results in things like you see in the poorer urban zones of the US. People seemingly create their own set of moral rules in the absence of a standard. Murder under that rule set not only is not a bad thing, it is actually celebrated. Not being actively involved in raising your children becomes a standard practice. I know what's functional, and what isn't. Whether you know the same is questionable to me.
I think it's past time that atheists acknowledge the source of what they describe as "moral". I'm not asking you to believe in God, I'm asking you for a cohesive rule set, and you can't provide one for me, because no group of atheists can ever agree on what is exclusively moral. That's what subjective morality means and that's what it does in application. It is chaos.
As a test write your own "10 Commandments" and see if you can get a group of atheists to agree to it. You will fail, because you have no definitions.
Under what moral standard for you is slavery, rape, or murder bad? Your own?? That's laughable, and someone more powerful will grind your face in the dirt. That's the Darwinian model you are celebrating.
@@kentonbaird1723 I see...once again, the non Christian has explicitly expressed his own desire to be God. You believe in the divinity of yourself.
Are you so obtuse that you don't even understand that ancient Jewish Scribal law (first 5 books of the Bible) was not some universally applied means of dealing with offenders even at the time it was written? Now, you suggest that modern Christians are going to magically revert to this? You don't even believe in Christianity, yet you constantly quote the parts you like as a weapon against Christians. It's not a surprise people have such contempt for atheism.
I am always floored by the patience and logical consistency and clarity Tracie shows. Really really sharp.
I think this was probably my favourite interview with a hard liner theist I have ever seen on this show. Tracie got him to stop presenting arguments and start asking questions. Everything after that is just golden.
I like how Matt puts it he states that our moral compass starts with a goal. This goal is the well-being of the species. This bypasses "if the world is meaningless how can there be right or wrong.
To put it simply overly religious people tend to see the world in black and white.
Becaus it is about what is beneficial to our species, the individuals who determined death is preferable to life are no longer around to argue their case.
@@whitegoose2017Also, why do so many of them talk so fast? Maybe it’s characteristic of huckster type speech
"But that means that how I act is up to me."
The people that call here frequently speak about free will, and yet here we have a person that is completely stumped that is even a concept.
I fell like he is trying to pull a fast one. and get her to say something that he can then use as a "gotcha" moment.
Being quite disingenuous... You could hear his voice get higher and faster when he thought he trapped them. Only to be slammed back by Tracie. Better luck next time, erkel
@VideoAudioDisco09
Actually it's dick, not Dick.😜
he called one time when she was on with eric and they had a long conversation that turned out to be a waste of time because he was indeed as you say, trying to spring a trap. tracie realised it and got mad and then she did one of her awesome intellectual beatdowns
Instead he got own.
Some people's brains are just broken....
They should have picked a better brain out of the smorgasbord of brains they had to choose from.
Someone, so deeply indoctrinated, has lost the ability to understand that they have any value of there own or ability to judge anything for themselves. Tragic waste of human intelligence.
Katenric exactly what’s so sad.
👍👍
@@trishayamada807 What religious indoctrination does to you. It makes you worthless and promises that only IT can save you.
Child Boo it makes my mom tell me every day she’s “ready for god to take her home”. She’s living, existing to die. Religion has robbed her of this actual life. I find it so frustrating.
finalfantasy8911 we bring meaning to our life. Religion strips that away and says you’re life is simply to follow these rules until you die and your actual best life is when you die. It takes away the reason to live and to just die. As an atheist this is the ONLY life I have so it is valuable to me. As for not killing others, that makes no sense. We are social creatures in a social world. We have evolved to work in a group. If you need religion to not kill other people, please keep being religious.
Lol “ I can’t do this anymore” me too Tracie hahaha
The arrogance of man is overwhelming.
Why can we not accept that we are simply animals and nothing more?
Because, "they" think they are "better" than "animals." Lol I know Dogs better than some humans.
@@Puchuchi747 Most Dogs ............
He gets his morality from a God who said this in the Bible:
Deuteronomy 20:10-15
10 When you approach a city to wage war against it, offer it terms of peace. 11 If it accepts your terms and submits to you, all the people found in it will become your slaves. 12 If it does not accept terms of peace but makes war with you, then you are to lay siege to it. 13 The LORD your God will deliver it over to you and you must kill every single male by the sword.
14 However, the women, little children, cattle, and anything else in the city - all its plunder - you may take for yourselves as spoil. You may take from your enemies the plunder that the LORD your God has given you. 15 This is how you are to deal with all those cities located far from you, those that do not belong to these nearby nations.
I hope Luke and others like him who believe they are following a moral god, read the above as many times as they need to until it sinks in that they are following the immorality of men who fancied they were channeling god. It’s so obvious that those men were puppeteers and god was their puppet.
@Sage OneX Yeah. There are a lot of demented verses in "the good book."
"I follow rules and only rules because I have no empathy"
I like that Sigourney Weaver dedicates her spare time arguing with Theists.
BodinhoDE 😂😅🤣😅😂😅🤣🤣😅😂😅🤣🤣👌👍
Oh mynock! Why did that take me so long.
But she also thinks Roman Polanski drugging and raping a child should be ignored because he’s a good director.
So f’ck her.
@@powbobs How does that differ from the church which has no problem sheltering child abusers among its ranks ? Even the bible believes that sparing the lives of young virgins as the spoils of war is moral
@@sarahann530 I dont understand why the church sheltering child abusers is relevant to roman polanski here.
Whats interesting is that the whole problem with his argument (IMO) starts at the very beginning of the call. He thinks that every Atheist believes like Matt does as if HE was the giver of rules. He can't picture a world where morality is not "do as your told".
Start over with some intelligence. My god that was painful.
Luke is an energy-sucking troll. I love Phil's Bob Ross shirt!
Haha … they have the same taste in hairstyle
I think watching a Bob Ross video with its happy little clouds is the perfect way to chill out after debating a moron.
"I'm arguing from the principle that god exists."
No, that's not a principle. It's an unfalsifiable hypothesis. This is why you're having trouble with the logic of it.
Yeeesssss Spot On .
If it's not falsifiable, it's not even called a hypothesis.
I am a secular humanist.
I exist and I am completely moral.
Is there a problem?
You are completely moral? You never do anything wrong?
@@Seethi_CMaybe not take things so literally?
For chimpanzees, the fact of not sharing food with the group is an act, considerate unfair, often punishable with the death of the individual. It is a way of eliminating that form of behavior, of the group.
Unfortunately Luke is not as intelligent or socially adjusted as a chimp.
And humans are no different. Some good. Some bad. We all have capacity to learn and see our actions. We have made murder morally wrong because we would not like to be murdered. Simple fact.Thanks, and have a wonderful day!
I thank you for your unbiased, outsider's opinion Australopithecus. Your unique perspective was invaluable in determining that Luke was, objectively, a disingenuous asshat.
Er, chimpanzees also engage in cannibalism. As humans did. Perhaps an example of moral evolution?
Hahah... Never seen Tracy so annoyed before. Good to know she is human 😅
Search the other Luke videos. He is horribly dishonest, and Tracy got a couple of his calls.
I know I'm late to the party but I had to say Tracy killed it!!!!
Tracy is brilliant.
Yes She Is ... This Guy Ran Up The Wrong Tree & Got Shiited On 😂😂😂😂😂 with logic & Reason .
Oh boy. I wish that there were transcripts of some of these conversations.
I love how most of the comments are calling out Luke's dishonesty. He was being quite disingenuous but thought he was being covert about it....too obvious, little buddy. Try harder next time.
Tracie is the most patient person ever lmao
This guy has called multiple times and has argued the same type of things each time.
He calls just to spout pre sup garbage and be hostile. He never calls to listen and actually learn something.
I sort of feel sorry for Luke. I think he is genuinely bewildered at the concept. Perhaps it's like being told all your life that leaves are green, and then encountering a plant with red leaves. He just can't incorporate how the reality meshes with his life-long indoctrination.
Atheists and other secularists have morals?! NEVER
Tracie gave him 21 minutes, I suspect Matt would have been onto the next caller after about 5.
I feel so bad for this guy, he's so indoctrinated, he can't even imagine a world where someone isn't telling him how to behave.
Its as if Luke is waiting until Tracie spills her coffee and cries "oh my god" then he will say ah ha you believe in god.
It never ceases to amaze how people who think good and evil come from superstition never seem to be able to tell which is which.
I gotta say I love Tracy, she's my favorite to see interact with people who just don't understand and she tries so hard to make them understand what she is saying and tries so hard to make sure that she understands what it is that they are saying.
This should have happened about 2 minutes in: click! Next caller.
But she did educate me. Not the principles, but the hard logic, research and terminology
It frightens me that there are people out there who would immediately abandon morality without an ancient book to tell them otherwise.
Tracie, You possess such a brilliant mind and compassion for others. We miss you!
When I lost my religion I never lost my morality- in fact part of why I left was that the religion I was raised in (Catholicism) was constantly asking me to VIOLATE my morality.
Like I hated that as a woman I was somehow seen as 'lesser' which violated my sense of fairness. Or that I was supposed to exclude my LGBT+ friends, and I was coming to terms with being Bi/Pan myself, which violated my sense of empathy. Or that my bodily autonomy or future wishes didn't matter- I was expected to be either a brood mare for the church or a Nun which violated my sense of freedom & independance. There was no other exceptable path. And even tho the church does alot of charity there was this idea of the 'Worthy Poor' that made me sick.
When I got rid of the magic book and church dogma I not only kept but expanded my sense of empathy, charity, fairness, justice, freedom etc. My morality matured, not withered.
Yet this guy can't or won't act like good person without a magic Sky Wizard who will spank him if he's bad. That is... terrifying. Like I work 2nd shift at a hospital and often have to walk through a huge dark parking lot at 11:30 at night to go home. So without his Sky Daddy if he saw me walking alone.... he'd what? Hurt me? Rob me? Violate me? Even if I had been caring for his sick Grandma all night?????
Christainity makes MONSTERS. This guy is the perfect example of 'Christain Ethics' aka they have NONE beyond a Bronze Age book of horrors. I wish he knew how f^cked up he makes his religion look.
Yikes! I think this caller even confused himself.
"Douchenozzle" kept running through my head as Luke was talking.
Tracy was truly inspired in her discourse here, it is so marvelous.
Luke has spent too much time thinking about morality within his Christian indoctrination bubble.
If you want to think like luke, visit us in your local church where we all float we all float.
I'll sum up Luke for you: "If a dog can understand this why can't you?"
That's all you need to know about Luke.
dogs have brains...
"I cant do this anymore" I know how you feel Tracie.
This is extremely difficult for Luke. Thinking for himself without the god glasses, is more than he can handle.
Yeah, I'm Gonna go with the idea that if you NEED to believe in a god to be a good person.
You are NOT
This potato is not worth anyone’s time. He called to have one argument and Tracy saw right through him.
In a study that was conducted by the University of Chicago, a link was found between non-religious upbringing and kindness. In fact, children who were raised without religion were not only kinder but also showed more empathy towards others. While most would believe that religion and a higher power breeds a better upbringing, this study seems to indicate otherwise. Led by Professor Jean Decety looked into the perceptions and behavior of various children located in six different countries. They looked into the children’s likeliness to share, as well as their habits regarding judging others or punishing them for bad behavior. “Overall, our findings … contradict the commonsense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind towards others,” “More generally, they call into question whether religion is vital for moral development, supporting the idea that secularization of moral discourse will not reduce human kindness - in fact, it will do just the opposite.”
This call: 'There is no such thing as secular morality, because after much irrelevant waffle, I declared that morality is necessarily tied to the whimsical decrees of a god'.
What an excellent, perfect circle, sir. You may as well have said 'there exist no wooden trees, because when I use the word 'wooden' I mean 'necessarily derived from unicorn vaginas'.
"Wait. What?" - His brain just got broken more.
Wrong. You can't break what does not exist.
This is a best of. Tracy is so good at connecting on a real level.
I love Tracy's clarity of thought!
I'm going to define morality as doing what's right regardless of what any god says. Checkmate, luke.
"If I'm starting over as an atheist" was annoying.
He doesn't want to put in the work to think about his actions.
Next time you complain about matt getting angry and hanging up on callers, remember this caller
He’s trying so hard to have a “gotcha” moment.
I don’t think I’ve heard Luke honestly discuss stuff out of the multiple times he’s called the show. He never seems to want more than to try to catch the hosts in a gotcha-moment that he always fails to deliver, and just makes himself look dishonest whenever he calls. The hosts have way more patience for him than he deserves, and more than I would be able to muster for someone who’s incapable of acting in good faith
Phil is so cool.
Sporting a Bob Ross shirt.
What Tracie doesn't understand is that morality only exists if it allows you to pass judgment on other people and tell them how to live their lives.
According to christianity, but secular humanism has no such requirement
19:27 "If a dog can understand it, why are you having trouble with it?" LOL
She should have dropped the mic at this point! This dishonest caller was desperate to get back to his script where morality is defined to need a god as a foundation...
Damn she’s so good!
Same Luke in episode 22.05 , same question, same failure by Luke to be honest
In discussion.
Tracie makes these discussions take way longer than she needs to, that's why Matt uses his method of explaining secular morality, it does not require nearly as much in the way of accepting research and assumptions.
(1) I understand the basic laws of physics (ie the way nature functions).
(2) My understanding of physics tells me that with a high degree of certainty actions that result in physical or emotional trauma can be understood and therefore avoided in many situations.
(3) I innately have a natural desire to avoid these physical and emotional traumas.
(4) I now have a metric for morality which simply measures the amount of change in my wellbeing (my physical or mental state of health, comfort, happiness, etc) which is based upon my desire to avoid these "bad" situations and encourage the "good" ones.
(5) I can now tell other thinking beings about my metric for morality and judge their actions in relation to my own wellbeing to determine if they are acting morally.
(6) My fellow thinking beings are very similar to myself and share their desire to also preserve their own wellbeing.
(7) I know I can sometimes improve my wellbeing if I decrease the wellbeing of other thinking beings with certain actions. But I know that they could do the exact same to me. So we agree to not harm eachother for our mutual benefit.
(8) Another thinking being chooses to ignore our moral system, because they feel their own wellbeing is all that matters. So they do harm upon individuals in our otherwise mutually beneficial society. We then decide to punish them by removing them from our society (imprisonment, banishment, or execution) or forcing restitution.
(9) Certain actions that reduce wellbeing become common (by malic or error, it does not matter), so we codify these common actions and make them illegal. This makes for a publicly available code of conduct that everyone within the society is expected to follow to best protect the whole from as much harm as possible. The code of conduct is accompanied by a list of punishments that fairly balance out the harm, so the individuals who might think the actions still are beneficial to themselves will know ahead of time that their actions will likely result in a net decrease of their own personal wellbeing and therefore not be worth ignoring the code of conduct.
(10) We additionally form a system of enforcement, a system of impartial judgement, and a system for modifying these codes, so that as we learn more about our natural world, we can more efficiently make decisions that will improve wellbeing if the entire society.
We have now created a liberal Democratic republic starting purely from observations about how nature functions and our natural preferences to not be injured. And it requires zero gods to do this. Pretty nifty right?
This is easily explained, with the "Golden rule", and "Veil of ignorance"
Tracy is awesome. Please get her back on the show!
That he can't even grasp whether fairness was part of morality is very telling.
That Bob Ross shirt is badass
It’s like going down a one-way street & some dummy says you’re not on the street.
Luke is trying to force fit an ought structure onto morality.
I think there's quite a lot of psychopaths who believe in the christian religion and the only reason they don't murder and rape is because of their book. It's a dilemma for us sane people. On the one hand we want them to think critically on the other hand we don't want to take away their book.
Psychopaths, religious or not religious, don't listen to anyone but themselves. Ultimately, they just end up doing what they think is best for themselves. Because they have no innate morality and don't understand empathy or guilt, they end up doing a lot of damage to other people, and themselves.
Gotta love Tracie's patience with someone so stubbornly ignorant.
This is a prime example of intellectual dishonesty.
..Tracie responds to a question...
.. Luke says ...but...
..Tracie makes a counterpoint...
.. Luke says ...but...but...
..Tracie backs up counterpoint with rational explanation...
.. Luke says ...but...but...but...
Luke says "but" nearly 40 times in this video. What a but-head.
It’s bizarre that full grown adults can’t understand this. A lot of us worked this out when we were 12.
He knows man, he knows. He wants a confrontation, period. He’s being purposefully obtuse to see if they’ll trip up on themselves. They didn’t and that’s why he ended a different call with “well, this was pointless” or something akin to that.
@@CronoXpono do you think? It’s not clear, but either way it’s a sad reflection of where we are currently.
@@admstick I think it’s clear because he continuously rephrased their points back to his original assumption. True dissonance comes off as confusion or misunderstanding, he was thinly veiling contempt. That’s just my two cents, I don’t read minds so. 🤷♂️
@@CronoXpono either way I think we can agree he’s a prick. 😃
To be fair his sarcastic laugh is a bit of a giveaway…
"I'm a horrible, selfish person". This is what your religion does to your mind. Belittles, and diminishes everything human.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone try so hard to not understand such a simple concept.
This was painful. The exact same talking point is being repeated dozens of times and this guy just cannot understand it no matter how many times it's clearly explained.
Luke has spent his life mindlessly following a list of rules instead of thinking about anything. Now his brain is as fit as a person that has spent their entire life lying in a bed being spoonfed and sponge bathed.
Luke made the conversation more difficult than it had to be
"Fair" is a place you go to eat funnel cakes. Morals are simple: don't be a dick to others and do no physical harm unless in defense of the same; no book or ghost required.