LOW BUCK CARB TEST-DO THEY WORK?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- 1/2 PRICE-BUT FULL POWER? CAN THE LOW-BUCK BRAWLER CARB COMPETE WITH THE ULTRA XP CARB THAT COSTS TWICE AS MUCH? CHECK OUT THIS DYNO COMPARISON BETWEEN THE HOLLEY (QF) 750 STREET BRAWLER AND THE HOLLEY 750 ULTRA XP CARB. WE COMPARE PRODUCT, PRICE AND PERFORMANCE ON A 351W TEST MOTOR.
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I’d like to see an Edelbrock vs Holley vs Demon vs whatever else test on a 425 horsepower motor
Throw that damn edelbrock carb in the dumpster...
Quadrajet is 100 times better than an Edelcrock
Demon is holley
Edelbrock are great carbs if you tune them correctly
@@johncholmes643 would like to see a Q Jet test. Often overlooked misunderstood carb.
You guys should check out the Engine Masters episode where they were looking for the Best Cheap Carburetor.
The used the Holley 750xp as the base line and tested the Street Demon, the Summit, and the Edelbrock.
The Summit won (BTW its made by Holley) and tied the Holley XP in both HP and Torque. For only $380.
It was also the cheapest carb.
Proform and Quick Fuel are also Holley brand names.
@Poor Touring Hot Wire Garage I don't know about maximum power but part throttle response is far better than the old one, it is a massive improvement.
I got three of those Summit carbs they're cheap and they work great and they're easy to work on yes they quit making them in 1998 sowhat, Summit changed the name on top Whoopi
@@larrybrown9279 I bought one of the summit carburetors 2yrs ago and it works well
Gotta watch that episode!
I'm guessing the choke horn on the Brawler accounted for at least a couple of HP, and probably contributed to the slightly richer A/F you saw with it.
Exactly what I was thinking
Yup!
Rene Jelles , that’s why the Holley Track Warrior carbs, in my opinion, are the best bang for the buck in a carb featuring so many of the essential performance modifications of the mega-buck Holleys but without a choke horn assembly to impede smooth air flow. The Track Warrior uses a main body from the Holley HP series for its choke less design and smooth contoured Venturi along with billet metering blocks and throttle plate. When on sale, the 750 CFM version of the Track Warrior can be purchased from the Holley website for around $500. A lot of great features for the money !
So I wasn't the only one who noticed,he should have used a brawler race carb
@@coldsmoker9387 Right how can you compare the xp to a street brawler carb it should have been the xp Vs the race brawler ( i bet ) Holley stepped in and said NO because racers would stop paying 1000$ for a over priced xp if a race brawler out done it. I have the 950 race brawler and love it & my son had an 850 holley and got an 850 brawler it's night and day difference he said well worth the change.
In the end it's how a carb drives. I've had several different carbs over the years and u can nearly tell straight away from how the engine starts that your onto something good and will only need small changes. Good throttle response good afr.
Great video. One thing not mentioned is that Brawler has ported vacuum for the distributor. This will improve gas mileage for the street. I use a 750 double pumper on my 383 small block and I get surprisingly good MPG using it.
NEED to find a way to do a fair comparison of Holley, Edelbrock and Qjet on a good running ~350-400 inch engine.
Thanks Richard - I’m looking to replace the carb on my 69 Z - answered a lot of questions I had!
Great test. Appreciate it we're always trying to save a dime.
You didnt mention this, but you can also buy just the HP main bodies and install them in your double pumper for pretty much the same performance and the XP
I suspect some of that power difference is just from the airflow disturbance the choke butterfly causes. If you lived in a cold climate likely that would be a must have for any wintertime use.
love the low buck vs. high buck stuff. keep it comin
intended use really comes into play here. like you said the brawler is the better choice for a street thumper that's driven regular but for a dedicated race car the other one has some advantage. in a typical street car you really won't feel the 7 hp difference but on a track car even 1 hp could make a difference between a win and 2nd place
Richard. Can we see an annular vs downleg vs straight leg booster shootout ? Maybe on a few different types of builds, stock vs warm vs race ? That would be EPIC !! Thanks for your efforts bro, I always learn something from your videos.
@RichardHoldener
Could do a video of a swap meet Holly carb buy and build on the cheap. Go to garage sales swap meets etc but 2 or 3 junky carbs and build a decent one. That would be cool for us very low budget guys.thanks.
I had a buddy with a 66 gto with 3-2 barrel s . When he switched out to a single 750 Holley the car went 4/10 faster in the quarter. Had a Taller alum intake of some type which
Maybe made the big dif . I remember him having trouble finding a air cleaner to fit under the hood .
Hey Richard, I would love to see a video on tuning a Holley HP Or terminator EFI system. I know it might be tedious but a few part series on getting it to work would be fantastic. I plan on using the terminator x plus on my BBC L21 gen vi 496 with 4L80E. Thanks for the consideration Sir, enjoy your stuff. Been reading your work for sometime, thanks!
This is my favorite type of test. Budget vs big bucks.
Curious about the difference between the holley type carb and the carter
I've always heard the holley makes more power (but at a cost in fuel consumption); be curious to see if a) that's true, b) if it is the transient change to full-throttle or if it show up under steady-state use like the dyno, and c) if there's a difference in the fuel droplet size between the two types.
If you guys have the carbs I think we would all love to see a 6, 7, or 8 carb comparison along with what it took to make each carb work well. That would be VERY interesting to watch.
Making a bunch of sense!! Have you ever tested a predator carb ? I'll send you one to try out.
Predator's were pretty decent carbs.
They are great with an idle circuit
I like how things have advanced far enough the 400hp is a "mild" build now days. Just 20 years ago a 400HP motor was NOT mild and many would say that was a built motor. Granted heads and valve train was limited money wise and aluminum heads where just starting to come out but had huge issues with head gaskets till they got the alloy combination right. Now 350-400 horse is factory..lol
I feel like the 7 HP difference was simply due to the choke horn and plate, mill that off with a clean radius and probably be close to the same
I think that's completely true and that's why I was a little richer the air horn restriction.
The Holley flows more air than the Brawler with the choke horn, why did you not use the Brawler W/O the chock horn?
or take a Dremel to the choke horn, that's the low buck solution ;)
My Brawler doesn't have a choke horn.
I would love to see the brawler with no choke I think it would have been the exact same hp.
EXCELLENT! These are the types of comparisons I like to see. I'd love to see how the Summit reincarnation of the Holley 4010/4011 carbs compares to the Brawler... Sadly, when Holley was producing them, they weren't very popular, but I've seen several 4010 750s that ate the 3310's lunch pretty handily.
I bought one of those Holley 4010 600 when they first came out. Those annular discharge boosters really are noticeably more responsive than the straight leg boosters.
Good comparison ! Who says we can't go fast , for not much money 💸
Like the other commenters im curious about the summit racing carbs. Ive seen them on more budget builds than i can count on both hands and really want to know how they compare to the ultra xp and the brawler. Both out of the box and after steve brule(not sure how his name is spelled) does his magic. I also wonder how the chaeper* carbs handle low vac situations. Would be a great video. Cheaper*
Ive ran the summit carb on a 350 chevy i had it worked ok but i had to run a .5 inch spacer so it would fit the intake manifold
I liking this comparison moor just like these
Richard: I'd like to see a test on water pumps...hence clockwise vs. reverse flow on a small block Chevy. That's because I bought from Amazon, and they sold me the V6/V8 long water pump. Oops! The overheating problem went away believe it or not.
I'd love to see an intake shoot out for the 351w EFI. Edelbrock truck manifold's vs. trickflow vs. stock :)
I just replaced my 3310 with a Brawler. I have owned three different 3310. The Brawler starts better. It has better throttle response. Slightly better performance out of the box. Bought a remanufactured and saved $100. So far great carburetor.
I love my 850 brawler. The price on those ultra xp Holley now are like 1100 bucks. Insane !!
nice work i'm glad to see some alternatives solutions
Annular vs down leg boosters cylinder to cylinder distribution.
I have no idea how you don't have more followers than you do. Love your videos. I'm on your side with the music👍. Just watched a 6 month old comp cams video where you were wearing that shirt.
Ben Bergh most folks can’t really comprehend this stuff. That’s why guys like Richard don’t have large followings. My take at least..
@@wymansst Fair point. I just like there's no bias. That and he seems like a guy pretty hard not to like.
Ben Bergh the non biased facts are what makes this channel so great and I completely agree Richard is hard not to like. Some folks just can’t accept simple facts though. Maybe it’s brand loyalty and brain washing and all that bs. We are the lucky ones who get to relish in this awesomeness.
thnx
Love your videos, this daily video routine has been nice.
I thought we learned from the 455 test that a 750 isn't big enough.... Hahaha!
I knew but I wasn't saying anything.. >:)
No Predator? Or Ron's Flushing Toilet? I need something to go with my Rhoads lifters after I get buff from my Charles Atlas workout. Lol.
@Jeff Kopis Poor Predator.. a melted snowball.
Charles Atlas? I'm not the only old buzzard here.
Hows your George Foreman grill?
@Jackson P. Storm yeah he fed everyone in their first apt.
Put 2 brawlers on. For that price. Great information.
Id like to see a double pumper against the vacuum secondary street avenger of the same size.
Yes, same here....is it worth some HP or not!
The only real difference is the second squirter in the air path on the secondaries, as long as the jetting and stuff are correct there wont be a lot of, if any difference and the driveability and fuel mileage on the vacuum secondary would be better.
@@Scootermagoo I do like the throttle response and drivability of my VS Holley. Looks like I won't be switching to DP. Thanks for info.
@@arodderz The thing is you can have that same response on a vacuum carb also, you get the holly top with the removable spring and spring kit and tune the the response. The only thing a vacuum secondary might lose in, is a outright hp war because of the amount of throttle opening versus the actual airflow. The vacuum carb might not open the secondary as far as the dp carb. Which is based upon airflow needs and a vacuum signal.
@@Scootermagoo very thorough info. I appreciate it.
No surprise on price increase after free advertisement for them sadly.
PO boys got to put the money where it counts. That $500 will get a lot of stuff!! Buy a lot of nitrous!!
Or a couple of Ebay turbos.
@@Parents_of_Twins planning on it. Lookin at On3 70 for a 40 over 351w with 190cc aluminum heads. Going in a 94f150 flairside my dad left me. Saturday afternoon cruzer and hangout with my son. His ride is a modified 16 mustang gt.
I wasn't expecting more then 10-15hp and most of that loss was probably from the choke plate. but a little touch on the jetting and bleeds would have solved that. I bought a hp 650 one of the originals for my maverick more years ago then i want to remember and playing with jetting and bleeds was nice.
Infinite thumbs up for the Maverick!!
@@robertwest3093 Orange & White 1973 Grabber with a 302 and a c4 and manual drum brakes. It was a high 11-110mph car. I miss that car.
Wish you’d show the actual pulls then the graphs... men a very visual creatures love to see her work 🤣
no video on this test
Wouldn't say low buck, but for today I guess. I still got my 750DP Holley I paid 400 bucks for years ago. Good Sunday to ya.
That's really interesting I would love to see the differences between more carbs like an Edelbrock a Q jet maybe a thermo quad dominator or a summit carb on the same motor.
I always want to see high-dollar stuff tested versus lowdoller stuff
I just used the good ole 750 double pumper on my stroker, then borrowed it for my 454,
Cut the choke horn off of the Brawler carb and I bet the numbers would be almost if not identical.
Engines not big enough for that to make a difference
Do a cheap carb shoot out, include the summit carbs
I'm surprised there was even that much change on the engine dyno. I would like to see these carbs tested on a chassis dyno, where carb tuning features and proper jetting and air bleed sizing will make a difference.
I'm not sure how all that comes into play at WOT on one dyno and not the other
@@richardholdener1727 on an engine dyno you have the controlled RPM gain compared to a inertia chassis dyno where the load is more fixed so the limiting factor of the dyno run is the engines output. In my mind I also see running the test with vacuum secondaries and comparing time to of the run so you can observe time the vacuum secondaries take to open. And you could also do a cam swap to show how that takes different amounts of time with different manifold vacuum levels.
I wonder if there would be a difference if you pulled the choke blade out of the brawler
Great test, I believe it pretty easily demonstrates how restrictive the Choke Horn is. Way back in the day I used to make a few dollars pocket money machining the choke horns of Holley Carbs. I could get used Holley 500's {Truck Engine} cheaper than 350's and I would machine off the choke horns and jet and PV them for 6 cylinders. Made enough money to buy my first big tool cabinet back when they used to be stupid expensive in the 80's. Wasn't a bad lurk until a local speed shop realized how profitable it could be and started importing used carbs from the US.
Would love to see how these compare to a set of IDI / IDF or DCOE 48 webers ;)
Downdraft Webers are road race only. Bloody awfull at low rpm. But work great from over about 3500. BUT in reality a single Holley works as well. And a damn site simpler. Though having run sidedraft 45s on Holden 6s they are the best, again for road racing. SUs are better for street use.
LDL wholesale is right saying webber IDA or DCOE carbs are best for road racing. Although, nothing looks better sitting atop a V8 a set of IDA's or a wicked set of DCOE's! Even on a IL6 or IL4 the look and performance of a set of DCOE,s is unmatched other than aftermarket fuel injection setups.
@@ldnwholesale8552
I have 3 45 DCOEs side draughts on a racecar and it drives fine in traffic.
More low buck vs high dollar would be very interesting
Testing cheap vs expensive carburetors, I'd much rather have seen a cheaper carb than the Brawler.
Summit, QuickFuel, Edelbrock, Jet, and FST all have carbs from $300-$350 that most people concerned with budget would look at first before dropping the extra $100-$150 for the Holley XP. Just got a QuickFuel Slayer and converted it over to a metering block on the secondaries
WesTech has to give great numbers for the amount of money someone pays for dyno use. I am sure their carb cabinet is not loaded up with the cheaply made carbs. I've got a milk create of used Holly carbs. Looks like a Holly grave yard or odtopsy jubk box. Lol. That's cheap.
Check with The guys at FST CARBS ( Ex gang from QUICKFUEL .. the Benoit family )
I had SBC roller cam 327. Brand new Holley HP 750 right out of the box absolutely did NOT run good on my 327. Excessively lean building 50 degrees temperature within 7 second run. Had to increase jet sizes buy a bout 10 numbers to get temperature under control and optimal Eighth Mile ET. I learned a hard lesson. Never expect carburetor to perform optimally right out of the box
I wonder if an air filter base would help equalize the difference, short of milling the choke off?
Mechanical verses vacuum secondary
we usually wire the vac sec stuff to make it mechanical on the dyno
@@richardholdener1727 You might get a higher number if you didn't.
This would be fantastic!
In my experience a 750 Vacc and a 750 DP makes the same power. The vacc secondary is the one for the street and the double pumper makes the car jump off corners harder, or even off the line for drags.
Just bought a brawler myself cant wait to see how it runs on my 400M.
I'm sure it will wake it up a bit if you are going from the Ford 2 BBL I miss my mercury
I wonder if the choke assembly would be responsible for the power difference? It does impede airflow after all.
we have to do this again?
@Jeff Kopis neither was the other carb.
@Jeff Kopis sorry for working so much and not having much spare time.
Great, now do fast ez-efi 2.0 vs. holley XP!
I would love to see demon vs holley, but also more holley series on the same engine.
Hey Richard, can you do a comparison of using a pcv evac system with headers vs a vacuume pump, vs nothing?
HammerTime racing , an in depth crankcase ventilation system test would be something that virtually everyone could benefit from and with the thorough testing methods that Richard uses, the results would be conclusive enough to show the many positive effects that having a constant crankcase vacuum can provide.
PCV components got a bad reputation early on as part of the evil power robbing emission control system. But advancements in technology have even included a billet PCV valve from M.E. Wagner that’s adjustable with dual flow capabilities for the vacuum differentials between idle and part throttle cruising. Getting blow-by vapors and unburned hydrocarbons out of the crankcase before they can contaminate the oil or escape into the atmosphere that we have to breathe is one of the original design features. But an engineering degree isn’t required to understand why excessive internal crankcase pressure can cause many problems like the dreaded oil leak from the rear main seal. Or how a controlled negative pressure (vacuum) inside the crankcase promotes better ring sealing. Maybe that’s why a serious drag engine builder will spend an extra $1000 or more for an elaborate belt driven vacuum pump system to draw down a serious internal vacuum for a few more horsepower. Big wins can get expensive.
That’s why a serious question like WHY needs a serious answer from a real world, hands on kinda guy like Richard Holdener. Ain’t nothing to it except to do it...please ? 😉
@@danielwilson6665 well said.
HammerTime racing , thanks for bringing it up because it’s a good topic that doesn’t get much coverage. It might seem insignificant to some but the guys that sweat the small details are the ones that get those great photo opportunities on Sunday afternoon in the winners circle quite often 🏁🏆.
HammerTime....great handle 👍
You keep commenting on the weight difference, but you never say. So is the weight really that significant?
What about a carb booster test??? Annular booster vs Dog Leg booster!!
How bout a street/truck avenger vs a summit copy?
Makes sense that both carbs had a lot of the same features since Holley is racing company and everythin they do on racin stuff filters down to the street stuff.
Why don’t you look at the new light weight square bore 750 cfm ? I purchased a 383 Chevy stroker thru a custom Engines with 4160 warrior 750 sq. bore. I’ve had issues with float fuel levels . I took it to a local carb. Rebuilder/ tuner with over 50 years experience. He told me that the metal used by Holley for the fuel bowels is not made in the U.S. and he has a lot of issues with them. These carb.s metal is low quality metal and it even comes off on his hands when working on them ! China ?
Loved quickfuel before Holley bought them.
@Jeff Kopis Like over 5 yrs ago.
Do you think you could do a video dedicated to distributor advance springs? Maybe on an engine that has relatively low compression and makes peak power at around 5,500?
Check out Uncle Tony. He covered that a little bit and how to lock out a distributor as well.
Was the Testengine Ford SVO M6007-A351 351 Cu. 385 HP? The Cam Was Dual Plattern. Dur.0.050 In.: 236; Ex.: 246 Lift: In.: 0.520 Ex.: 0.538. P/N: FOR-M-6250-A351 (Hyd. Flat Tappet). Greetings from Germany.
I bought a brawler for my 94 Chevy K1500 and it’s been a nightmare from day one. I’m switching to Fi-Tech for drivability and because it’s a 4X4. I will however be putting a carburetor on my 468 CI big block Chevy.
Richard, did you just quote Orin Juice Jones. Very cool
THAT'S HP WE DO IT
@@richardholdener1727 question, warmed over 358 ,sbc. Dual plane, holley 750cfm vac. Secondaries. Elevation 5,700 ft. That's where it will live. 85 percent of the time. Factory jetting in the primaries, .072. Any suggestions for down jetting before installation. Any input is helpful. Thanks enjoy the video. Take care
a test and a explanation of the difference between the many holley carbs, demon, xp, dominator, quick fuel, proform, original, hp,street, avenger
I would like to see a test of a quickfuel ss 750 an carb I know people in hell want ice water too. It isxa 900 dollar carb but I am curious if there is qny benefit having annular boosters both front and rear.
How about a "factory OEM carb vs aftermarket carb" shootout. Break out your Quadrajets, Thermoquads, Carters, Motorcrafts, etc. and see if they can be made to run as good as the aftermarket stuff.
Can we get a Steve Cameo please? He is a cool guy
I would like to see you try a TEMU 4-barrel carburetor. I have seen some guys get a good carb for cheap.
A test on a big cammed motor, testing boosters, strait leg, down leg, and annular discharge. Low end when the motor is still on the cam, people would reconsider carbs and converters. What do you think.
As I’m sitting here getting caught up on all the sbc videos you drop this carb video. Perfect timing
I've built several street rod engines for guys on a budget. They freely cough up the dough on a good short block, then when it's time for heads they tighten up a little. By the time you get to a manifold and carb, they're already all-in. This Brawler carb looks great. Double pumper or vacuum secondaries, adjustable air bleeds, etc.
Torque peak is really low on that cam, might be 4000 or 4200 rpm. I'd say cam is less than 220@.050".
RICHARD, I’d like to see you find and test some toyota V8 stuff like the older 4.7 and the newer 5.7 harder to find but it’d be sweet to see them maxed out with boost! No one has done any scientific methodical testing for max power with the 4.7 on nos or with boost so I think it would be an awesome episode!!!! Also my brother has a sequoia with the 4.7 that he turbocharged and he’s only running about 8-9psi but he’s afraid to turn it up because of the rumors about the rods holding so much power but like I said no one has ever safely boosted this motor. People who have boosted the 4.7 motors have just ran them on pump gas and threw boost at it and probably detonated and blew it up and said “it can’t take power” so I’d like to see exactly how much safe power it can take on say e85 😁😃
Nobody runs Toyota engines, so I imagine nobody would care
grngs1 I mean that’s not true if your saying toyota in general, 2jz.... or 1uz... those are very supported motors for mods and racing
We need to get off this hang up on 750 carbs these engines these days are running so well and breathing so well they need at least an 850 don't believe me do arun on one of your motors yank off that 750 and put an 850 on it watch the horsepower torque jump just with that one change..
Talk about low buck carbs, how about those Sherryburg carbs you find on Ali Express?
Wonder how the Summit racing Max performance carburetor would stand up against these in a comparison. Its American made and the price is even less than the Brawler.
Heck ya buddy those carbs work great
How does the Brawler compare to a can of flamable brake clean?
driveability suffers with Brake Clean
My boy is looking for a new carburetor for his newly recammed ford 390. I think I'll show him this video!
How about testing the Holley high zoot carb against their Synper fuel injection?
This is an apples and oranges test. The brawler has the choke and choke horn and the xp is an hp style. xp will flow more air and make more power no matter what. get a brawler race carb and retest
the point was how close they are
I just bought a brawler and one flaw with the electric choke is it dose not ground where the stock location is on the side of the carb. When I looked under the hood in the dark it was a lightning show on the throttle linkage side of the carb. It was trying to ground through the throttle shaft and linkage not good. I moved the black wire down to the manifold stud and no more sparks and grounding through the throttle linkage.
How bout a comparison test between the old school Holley 750 dual feed double pumper and the new Brawler 750 Holley
I definitely appreciate the low buck help. I modified Holley carbs for years, and finally got a Brawler. I’m very impressed with it, and I know it has a lot of potential. Do you think you could do something with modifications to either Holleys or Brawlers? Like millling and radiusing the inlet. Thinning throttle shafts , then tuning for them?
Try a Predator carburetor. I have never seen one in action.
Yes would love to see ultra xp 4150 vs edelbrock avs2 of same cfm see which wins
You could prob compare ten 750 brawlers and get a slight range of HP difference because of lower machining tolerances. Ten Ultra XP should be tighter/closer to the same. Billet isn't always good, it depends on the machining. Race carbs sell but people want them to act/drive like a vac secondary carb and that is where custom tuning comes into play
Jetting.. what about changing the jets
Was the brawler carb richer due to the choke ? Has anyone checked the airflow to see the differences in horse power ?
Has perfect teeth. And does great videos.
Thumbed
teeth need work