This is a great documentary. As a gay man who was a teenager in the late 1960s/early 1970s I and many others were tormented that "giving in" to our natural desires would only bring shame to us and our families. As a result many stayed in the closet, living lives of suppressed gratification and happiness. Things are better for today's youth, gay and trans, but the struggle for true social equality continues.
Regardless of whether it's the Red Scare or the Lavender Scare they both have one thing in common: Both ruined innocent lives. My compliments to all those who made this video a reality.
"They might be subject to blackmail!" Why not stop discriminating so there would be no reason for blackmail? "Ridiculous! Now, leave me alone so I can have an extra-marital affair that absolutely couldn't be used for blackmail in any way!"
The blackmail in this case would be outting the person, likely ending marriages, it wasnt the action that was bad, so much as the potential to be used by enemies to undermine otherwise good people. The potential for easy blackmail was more pressing than any moral crusade. It was done, and it was a legit fear. It took 70 years and the release of classified material to find out mccarthy was actually right about everything and pretty much everyone. FDR filled our state department with communists and he knew it. FDR and Woodrow Wilson especially laid the road for the destruction of America as a free nation.
Bingo! If there is no discrimination, there is nothing to blackmail about. ❤your pointing out the hypocrisy of some of those wanting to continue anti-gay discrimination.
The term, "sex pervert" allowed the authorities to cast a pretty wide net. If you weren't a married church-goer with 2.5 kids, you were likely to be under suspicion, gay or not, especially if you were single and over thirty.
This brings more meaning to the line in the Film Dr Strangelove, 1964, where the sergeant who went in to re-take the air force base said that he was told that they were putting down a "mutiny of perverts."
Sure does. It really was aggravating to be equated with communists. I was raised in the 1950s and 1960s. It was certainly a rough time to be gay. I came out in 1972 and it took 35 years for my mum to accept me and my orientation.
@@harrietharlow9929 Likewise. I was nearly 50 when I came out to my parents in 2000.I never wanted to disappoint them. In my case I even got married to a woman and had three kids. Such a waste of emotional energy that negatively affected so many lives.
Not to mention how many straight persons were affected by this scare after having been falsely accused of homosexuality, just because they led a single life, for example.
@@relaxedsack1263 That was probably a lot of it. But true, many straight people fell afoul of the government just for something as simple as not being married. Needless to say, this was also unjust. The government owes them a big apology as well.
These laws have a knack for dividing the population into two groups, "those who want protection from an imagined nightmare, and those who want protection from the government itself."
Very interesting and needed historical video. This was a great summation of a bleak time in our history. The blackmail argument was being used right into the 80s and 90s. I guess it never occurred to anyone that if gay people weren't discriminated against, there would be no grounds for blackmail. Not that it would have made much difference at the time.
check out all the psychological torture they did on these people after they were labeled mentally ill and were stripped of their human rights. welcome to the internet lol
"One homosexual can pollute an entire government department" Wow, was everyone working on that report in the closet and in denial to say something that blatantly NOT gay? lol
Some people seem to think that any history that involves queer people is not worth learning about...but the gays have been around forever 😂 There's plenty to learn from the Lavender Scare, and it is relevant to Cold War America. The history of the Cold War is more than just learning about the KGB and CIA
Yes. And we all know that Alan Turing, a genius who was essential to defeat the nazis, was gay. Moreover, a lot of artists and other geniuses are gay. For example, my fellow-national Michelangelo and Leonardo.
This was also just a huge movement towards less political freedom for everyone gay or straight, the fact the accusation alone true or not could ruin your life. Not to mention the culture of prejudice is what created the "security risk" of blackmail in the first place.
An equally ironic aspect of this is the role played by McCathy's lawyer and "right-hand man", Roy Cohn, who finally came out in the 1980's and eventually died of AIDS.
And, yep, remnants of the Lavender Scare remained in the military until Don't Ask Don't Tell, which was only a slight improvement in practive, but you didn't have to swear you were straight under particular penalty of stockade just to serve like you had to in the late 80's. It also applied to the intelligence community, at least into the late 80's, which was trying to recruit me pretty seriously, but here was me, I'm like, 'I'd die for my country, I'd even lie for my country. I'm not going to lie *to* my country, show me a country that'd have my back, not join in the persecution by claiming the persecution makes *me* a 'security risk.' This is of course the insanity too many in government and religion want to drag us back to in the name of 'tradition,' no matter who or what function of our country it hurts.
@@ClaireCJS Well, even for trans people it was probably that much worse before DADT: after that there were still unfair discharges and abuse but I knew a trans lady they tried to 'cure' with exactly the wrong sorts of hormones. The results may still be classified.
Lesbian here. Though being LGBT in the West still sucks, we need to always be aware and remember the story of those of us who suffered and even died just for being who they are. A person's existence shouldn't spite violence, what two consenting adults do with their bodies is not the state's business.
Agreed entirely. I am always so thankful to older LGBT generation. I’m only 35, but I’ve benefited so much from their hard work. I live in Australia and I remember how emotional one of my older friends became when we had a plebiscite (vote) to legalise same sex marriage, it was so awesome to see.
Seeing people dehumanize others and even enjoying (or at least, not disapproving) seeing people being persecuted for existing just show how awful and full of double-standards we are as a society, doing to others what we wouldn't want others to do to ourselves.
Interesting. Earlier in Eisenhower's career, he commanded a crack Battalion of Army secretaries, and he asked the Senior in charge to compile a list of all of the lesbians in the Unit. She replied that if such a list were to be compiled, that her name would have to be placed at the top of the list, to which another secretary retorted "No Mamm. My name would have to go to the top, as I am the one who would have to type it." Whatever the reasons, old Ike continued to command crack units in the Military.
This Channel is amazing. It's everything I loved as a child about PBS documentaries but now I can have it in my pocket. As a kid, I would have my mom record stuff like this and I'd sit and watch at night. Now I ride my bike to work and listen to this Channel while riding. And yes I do pay attention to traffic while biking with headphones.
@@timwarcloud Yes because unlike in the US, there was a subsisting law at the time that penalized such. Turing really did "broke" the law. His posthumous pardon further reinforces the fact he was guilty of the crime as pardons by design only cure the penalty of their crimes, not the crime they committed...
Man, the people who constantly shout "facts don't care about your feelings" get *really* upset when people bring up historical facts that they don't like.
Yeah you're first person who really said this. I remember getting influenced by conservative youtubers then during George flyod they started stating how it was covid and drug use for george death not something else but when I read medical report which mentioned these it stated it was a homicide case. This is first time I realised how much they lie and twist facts according to their narrative
@@TheWildersmith Amazing how that guy could never turn up any good KGB credentials and his status as a member could never be verified. Almost like he lied. 🤔🤔🤔
@@derche4005 idk i think a world where two consenting adults arent prosecuted for their personal decisions is a lot better than a society without that trait.
Unless you don't lead your life exactly as is expected from you and you dare to actually try and use any of that freedom. Then you suddenly turn into public enemy number one lol.
Hi, I am a long time follower of your channel. Now that you have started the Pride Month with a video on the Lavender Scare, hope this will get followed by LGBTQ Scenario and persecution beyond the Iron Curtain, and most importantly, the Stonewall Rebellion.
"The privilege of working for the U.S. Government should not be extended to persons of dubious moral character...." D.C. would be a ghost town if this was even remotely true, dubious moral character is practically a job requirement for politics.
There was a good reason why McCarthy's nickname was Tailgunner Joe. If there was a hell, he would be in it. As it is, he's just dust and never had to pay for his evil in this area and others unless the universal balance took care of him.
Congrats on the video, as this topic gets constantly overlooked. Question: was there any sort of reparation for the people targeted by the lavender scare? If not, are there proposals being discussed today? Greetings from Brazil
Oh no! Look like it is time for every edgy American 14 year old who subscribed to learn about military history to unsubscribe and leave a comment about how this video completely devestated them.
Because history channels, especially those dealing with military history, unfortunately, attract the worst kind of people. I can't think of any subject where the gap between the channels creators and actual experts (in this case historians) compared to the audience is bigger when it comes to political views and general "niceness". Seeing "Kings and Generals" leaving a comment under videos made by the youtuber "Contrapoints" for example was a nice surprise. While I'd argue that large parts of his audience are likely similar to the comments you see under this video. Trans- and homophobic, right wing nutjobs, that have no interest in history besides military history.
Because the same people that say "facts don't care about your feelings" are triggered when presented with historical facts that they don't want to hear.
Between the 1950s and 1980s, a lot of change occurred since eventually, change had to come one way or another. Looking at the world today in comparison to back then, we are no longer in a society that limits your expression (unlike in the past where freedom of expression was not the same as it is today).
Sorry to crash your bubble but if you don't toe the Democratic line and agree with their idealogy then you are subject to suppression or censorship. How the news of Hunter Biden's laptop was suppressed until after the election is only one of many examples.
I fear the results of campaigns to justify this policy are still with us today with media panics about sexual minorities still very much in evidence and the recycling of earlier panics greeting any call for acceptance and understanding.
We have always been here. We will always BE here. They can try to keep us down, shove us out, stand on our necks. Well guess what? We'll live. Welcome to the new world, we're not going anywhere. Happy pride.
Their anti-gay persecutions continue too. At least we, the US, is trying to level the playing field. If you're gay [and I don't care] where would you want to live? The Netherlands probably. LOL. Cheers
@@paulceglinski3087 thank you! We are very proud of being able to provide freedom for everyone no matrer how they live their lives. Not just the ones who decide to live their lives as others see fit.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 At least we try. Sometimes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions but also those same intentions lead the other way. It is the effort that counts.
@@christopherharris3229 "you're not tolerant of our blind and ignorant intolerance, aren't you the same as us?" Oh be quite, being "canceled" for being a bigot is simply having social consequences for being a horrible person that discriminates against people for immutable and or insignificant differences. Keep cring about the "woke mob" though.
No, that's because it was built next to a literal swamp, which generated truly spectacular fog. However, the Army Corp of Engineers built the Tidal Basin to control the river and to _literally_ drain the swamp. This not only recovered the land that is now Potomac Park (the part of the Mall between the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial) for use, it also almost put an end to the fog of foggy bottom. I worked in the neighborhood for about five years (not at State, but nearby) and I only saw an old fashioned fog once, but man it was unreal. You could not see from one side of the street to the other.
Classic movie Advise & Consent features a primary character, a young Congressman, that is bblackmailed, and commits suicide, over secret homosexuality, by political opponents. The full stereotype, to the letter.
Tbh, This describes about how authoritian America is acting back them. It felt borderline dictatorial. They claimed to be much more free than the USSR in freedom wise. Turns out it is no different. USSR doesn't look favorably towards gays either thanks to Stalin.
Well, we Americans had card-carrying Communist Harry Hay as co-founder of The Mattachine Society, a founding society of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
I mean... J. Edgar Hoover was homosexual too, but you'd crazy for thinking that suggests gay men are more likely to be fervent anti-communists... In a world with billions of people, you can find prominent people with just about any combination of traits you want - pointing to individual instances is pretty meaningless.
Good video as always, but the US/Can border is at 49°N (not 47°)… we’ll mostly 49, west of the Great Lakes anyway. :) (Yes I’m exceedingly pedantic, sorry.) Unrelated you should do some stuff on the impact of nuclear testing. For example, more radioactive tritium released by Ivy Mike in 1952 than by Fukushima Accident. And the mind reals at what we know the Soviets did.
This is honestly a perfect example of human fear of that which they can't directly relate to since any amount of mental reaching can generally lead to cognitive dissonance, because of that most people just never try to reach beyond their own narrow scope of experience, it's just sad.
Oh! We Americans are so f'ed up. To the World: You still want to immigrate here? Thanks Cold War another excellent vid on an era that needs the spotlight.
Some places are still worse, but as a foreigner who fell to American propaganda as a teen: Nope. I don't want to come there anymore. It's screwed up. My best friend lives in the US and I'm visiting her by December, all the way in Indiana. I know firsthand from what she tells me how bad things can get there for minorities and lower classes. She's about to marry another Brazilian, he's from São Paulo, but he's only migrating because it's necessary for now, they have all their plans set to leave and go to Europe.
You are still, despite all faults, far superior to the vast majority of places to live on this planet. Just look at the number of people trying to move in to the "f'ed up" Western nations, compared to other places. I don't know about the USA (I'm in the UK) and altohugh we've got problems, God only knows, last year alone roughly 1,000,000 people decided to move here - a record - and that's not accounting for the tens of thousands who made their own way without a visa! We must be doing something right (and perhaps our tolerance of different groups is a major draw?).
Soooo..... at 6:37, we're not going to talk about who is sitting to the left of Senator McCarthy? The Evil, the Irony and Hypocrisy is writ large just in that photo.
I kept waiting for David to point out the irony that Roy Cohn, Senator McCarthy's Torquemada, was a notorious closeted homosexual. Cohn and his lover, G. David Schine, were dispatched to various State Department facilities to expose suspected communists and homosexuals. A joke in the State Department at the time went, "Our work must go on, come Cohn or Schine."
Thank you for sharing our history! Please do a video on Frank Kameny an his efforts. He is single handily responsible for the rise in the destruction of these policies. He actively pointed out the hypocrisy stated in the law and created the "GAY IS GOOD!" slogan.
It's Democratic senators, not Democrat senators. Saying things like "Democrat Party" is what McCarthy and others got started because they couldn't be honest in identifying the political party they were referring to.
Probably the same place as gay people. As a bisexual person is "partly" gay. See it like being labeled a full blown communist for being remotely socially aimed.
Bisexual identity wasn't properly recognised until the 70s and 80s. Many people still refuse to acknowledge. So, chances are that a bi person caught in the Lavender Scare would just be accused of being gay
@@BTScriviner Yup, lots of bigots still out there. It's a wonder so many aloof people in the comments are talking about this treatment of marginalized people like it's a thing of the past, and not something that's still going on all around the world, and the place where it's "gotten so much better", are still at risk of fascist backsliding. We can't let out guards down, these fascists will take any and all opportunities they have to oppress and terrorize us.
At least equally as bad. Authoritarian regimes love to cultivate homophobia: if they want to jail or 'discredit' someone, the accusations don't even have to be true.
Pretty shitty, still shitty. Russia is one of the non-arab nations that most persecute LGBT people to this day, tho it's pretty hard to know the details of the punishments in the Soviet Union just because they were probably destroyed or still remain classified
Yeah they had. However I do not know if the treatment was different in the more liberal socialist nations, those being Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Both of those nations aimed to improve the rights and freedoms of their people, the hungarian model being called "Goulash Communism" and the Czechoslovakian model being "Socialism with a human face". However thr other nations in the Warsaw pact invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968 and stopped their welfare reforms, so I don't think that it was so goot to be LGBT there after 1968.
Great video, but it is unfortunate that you talk about LGBTQ in the title as the lavender scare had nothing to do with trans people, but was about homosexuality.
This is ridiculously 1 sided. After 1934, the USSR criminalized male homosexuality and was far more severe about persecuting them than the US The USSR labeled homosexuality a capitalist perversion. It would seem more appropriate to discuss how homosexuals were scapegoated by both sides
That is true. Other fun facts Lenin was the first modern leader to decriminalize homosexuality. And East Germany decriminalized homosexuality in 1968 while West Germany decriminalized homosexuality in 1994.
Wow this comment section is full of people who for some reason, expect people from a entirely different time period to conform to their 21 century moral standards and are just Shocked when they don't. That's doing a piss poor job understanding history in it's proper context. In other words it's not trying to be a historian or even Jr historian. It's just being a woke activists. 🙄🤨
It was crazy and wrong back then, too, it wasn't like there was no way for policymakers to know better at that point, either. Obviously, MacCarthyism found homophobia convenient to their pollitics.
Not at all. Do you believe slavery is OK because in the 19th century it was accepted? One can condemn a past behavior without it being "woke." The fact that you're using such phrasing just proves you're a reich-wing shit stirrer.
@@BitchyHistory focusing on the 0.3% is not the cold war. Who's in next week's 0.3% episode? Hamsters??, they lived during the cold war too you know....
@@sethman75 the paranoia and witch hunts of the period are incredibly important to the culture of the cold war. If hamsters were part of had, I'd happily listen to an episode about it. This is an entire channel dedicated to the cold war, there's plenty of space and time to discuss the social and cultural nuances of the period.
This is a great documentary. As a gay man who was a teenager in the late 1960s/early 1970s I and many others were tormented that "giving in" to our natural desires would only bring shame to us and our families. As a result many stayed in the closet, living lives of suppressed gratification and happiness. Things are better for today's youth, gay and trans, but the struggle for true social equality continues.
Happy Pride!
I too hope for a brighter and fairer future of the LGBTQ+ community 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Some of those closeted souls also ended up ruining the lives of their wives and children as well, spreading the misery they felt to them.
Regardless of whether it's the Red Scare or the Lavender Scare they both have one thing in common: Both ruined innocent lives. My compliments to all those who made this video a reality.
Bravo, well said! Thanks!
@@mjperez2646---your welcome
Funny how we read about the red scare and how much communistic ideology has had such a big impact on colleges and universities in the U.S
Wrong
The more I hear about this McCarthy fella the more I Like him.
Got to love an argument that begins "if you disagree with me you're wrong"
True
It depends what the issue is. There is absolutely no reason for gays not to be able to serve in the military or government service.
Context if someone says they disagree that 4*2=8 their obviously wrong and probably need to study some timetables for a little bit.
"They might be subject to blackmail!"
Why not stop discriminating so there would be no reason for blackmail?
"Ridiculous! Now, leave me alone so I can have an extra-marital affair that absolutely couldn't be used for blackmail in any way!"
Ironically the Soviet Union criminalize homosexuality during the Cold War and probably wouldn't think of recruiting them in the first place.
The blackmail in this case would be outting the person, likely ending marriages, it wasnt the action that was bad, so much as the potential to be used by enemies to undermine otherwise good people. The potential for easy blackmail was more pressing than any moral crusade. It was done, and it was a legit fear. It took 70 years and the release of classified material to find out mccarthy was actually right about everything and pretty much everyone. FDR filled our state department with communists and he knew it. FDR and Woodrow Wilson especially laid the road for the destruction of America as a free nation.
@@D4rkc14ymor3 and yet and asked to show his lust of Communists McCarthy could not not produce one despite waving his “list” in speeches.
Bingo! If there is no discrimination, there is nothing to blackmail about. ❤your pointing out the hypocrisy of some of those wanting to continue anti-gay discrimination.
The term, "sex pervert" allowed the authorities to cast a pretty wide net. If you weren't a married church-goer with 2.5 kids, you were likely to be under suspicion, gay or not, especially if you were single and over thirty.
This brings more meaning to the line in the Film Dr Strangelove, 1964, where the sergeant who went in to re-take the air force base said that he was told that they were putting down a "mutiny of perverts."
"Preverts" to be exact
Sure does. It really was aggravating to be equated with communists. I was raised in the 1950s and 1960s. It was certainly a rough time to be gay. I came out in 1972 and it took 35 years for my mum to accept me and my orientation.
Not a sergeant- Col. "Bat" Guano, played by Keenan Wynn, who ironically was rumoured to be sexually involved with Van Johnson.
@@harrietharlow9929 Likewise. I was nearly 50 when I came out to my parents in 2000.I never wanted to disappoint them. In my case I even got married to a woman and had three kids. Such a waste of emotional energy that negatively affected so many lives.
Not to mention how many straight persons were affected by this scare after having been falsely accused of homosexuality, just because they led a single life, for example.
or just having a political a disagreement with McArthur.
@@relaxedsack1263 That was probably a lot of it. But true, many straight people fell afoul of the government just for something as simple as not being married. Needless to say, this was also unjust. The government owes them a big apology as well.
These laws have a knack for dividing the population into two groups, "those who want protection from an imagined nightmare, and those who want protection from the government itself."
Very interesting and needed historical video. This was a great summation of a bleak time in our history. The blackmail argument was being used right into the 80s and 90s. I guess it never occurred to anyone that if gay people weren't discriminated against, there would be no grounds for blackmail. Not that it would have made much difference at the time.
I had never heard of this witch hunt. I knew McCarthyism, but this thing is completely new.
Well done David, this is a very interesting topic.
Turned out he was right. Hollywood is full of anti American communists.
I knew about it. Julie/ Julia Paul child’s were force to retired because they thought he was a homosexual
check out all the psychological torture they did on these people after they were labeled mentally ill and were stripped of their human rights. welcome to the internet lol
Me too😢
"One homosexual can pollute an entire government department" Wow, was everyone working on that report in the closet and in denial to say something that blatantly NOT gay? lol
"Fun" fact the 'fruit machine' possibly inspired the Voight-Kampff test from Blade Runner.
Eh persecuting the gays before that was popular in Canada in the cold war and Toronto bathhouse raid and culling of the public service.
Damn.
Mate, I was just thinking the same dam thing!
Some people seem to think that any history that involves queer people is not worth learning about...but the gays have been around forever 😂 There's plenty to learn from the Lavender Scare, and it is relevant to Cold War America. The history of the Cold War is more than just learning about the KGB and CIA
Yes. And we all know that Alan Turing, a genius who was essential to defeat the nazis, was gay.
Moreover, a lot of artists and other geniuses are gay. For example, my fellow-national Michelangelo and Leonardo.
This was also just a huge movement towards less political freedom for everyone gay or straight, the fact the accusation alone true or not could ruin your life. Not to mention the culture of prejudice is what created the "security risk" of blackmail in the first place.
@sword-swinging cat
You read my mind. I agree with you.
J Edgar Hoover came straight out of the "closet" to round up all LBGTQA individuals. Oh the irony!
The lavender scare was only about homosexuality, not about trans people or asexuality.
crab mentality.
An equally ironic aspect of this is the role played by McCathy's lawyer and "right-hand man", Roy Cohn, who finally came out in the 1980's and eventually died of AIDS.
Well done on exposing this lesser known side of the Cold War.
And, yep, remnants of the Lavender Scare remained in the military until Don't Ask Don't Tell, which was only a slight improvement in practive, but you didn't have to swear you were straight under particular penalty of stockade just to serve like you had to in the late 80's.
It also applied to the intelligence community, at least into the late 80's, which was trying to recruit me pretty seriously, but here was me, I'm like, 'I'd die for my country, I'd even lie for my country. I'm not going to lie *to* my country, show me a country that'd have my back, not join in the persecution by claiming the persecution makes *me* a 'security risk.'
This is of course the insanity too many in government and religion want to drag us back to in the name of 'tradition,' no matter who or what function of our country it hurts.
the remnants remained far beyond that. But people like to skip over trans people when they talk about LGBT issues.
@@ClaireCJS Well, even for trans people it was probably that much worse before DADT: after that there were still unfair discharges and abuse but I knew a trans lady they tried to 'cure' with exactly the wrong sorts of hormones. The results may still be classified.
Lesbian here. Though being LGBT in the West still sucks, we need to always be aware and remember the story of those of us who suffered and even died just for being who they are. A person's existence shouldn't spite violence, what two consenting adults do with their bodies is not the state's business.
Agreed entirely. I am always so thankful to older LGBT generation. I’m only 35, but I’ve benefited so much from their hard work. I live in Australia and I remember how emotional one of my older friends became when we had a plebiscite (vote) to legalise same sex marriage, it was so awesome to see.
What a waste of time and money.
Not mentioning the witch hunt against the entire LG(BT) community.
Seeing people dehumanize others and even enjoying (or at least, not disapproving) seeing people being persecuted for existing just show how awful and full of double-standards we are as a society, doing to others what we wouldn't want others to do to ourselves.
And it hasn’t stop!!
Good
@@wadewilson6628 I have a good feeling these things didn't happen. Doesn't justify any persecution against the right to harmlessly be yourself.
@@adamantobserver8655 hypocrite.
@@Game_Hero in what way it says hypocrite?
Looking at the amount of dislikes, some people were triggered..
The angry people were most likely the far-right ultraconservatives.
Interesting. Earlier in Eisenhower's career, he commanded a crack Battalion of Army secretaries, and he asked the Senior in charge to compile a list of all of the lesbians in the Unit. She replied that if such a list were to be compiled, that her name would have to be placed at the top of the list, to which another secretary retorted "No Mamm. My name would have to go to the top, as I am the one who would have to type it." Whatever the reasons, old Ike continued to command crack units in the Military.
This Channel is amazing. It's everything I loved as a child about PBS documentaries but now I can have it in my pocket. As a kid, I would have my mom record stuff like this and I'd sit and watch at night. Now I ride my bike to work and listen to this Channel while riding. And yes I do pay attention to traffic while biking with headphones.
Thanks for shining a light on us.
🤠🏳️🌈
Now that's what I call cancel culture
British scientist who broke Enigma code charged after WW2 with sodomy
Alan Turing
Was he guilty of the crime?
@@timwarcloud Yes because unlike in the US, there was a subsisting law at the time that penalized such. Turing really did "broke" the law. His posthumous pardon further reinforces the fact he was guilty of the crime as pardons by design only cure the penalty of their crimes, not the crime they committed...
@@timwarcloudyes he was chemically castrated
I never heard of this until now.
Man, the people who constantly shout "facts don't care about your feelings" get *really* upset when people bring up historical facts that they don't like.
You mean the people who always call other people snowflakes and such lol 🤟.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716
The biggest snowflakes on Earth are conservatives.
Yeah you're first person who really said this. I remember getting influenced by conservative youtubers then during George flyod they started stating how it was covid and drug use for george death not something else but when I read medical report which mentioned these it stated it was a homicide case. This is first time I realised how much they lie and twist facts according to their narrative
Yuri Bezmenov look him up
@@TheWildersmith
Amazing how that guy could never turn up any good KGB credentials and his status as a member could never be verified. Almost like he lied. 🤔🤔🤔
Excellent video, like all of the rest of the Cold War series. Thank you.
Fantastic! I posted this as my clip of the day for Pride month on my Facebook. no, really, thank U ! great job and lots we did NOT know... as usual
16:19 this sounds like the test in the original movie, Blade Runnner, and the short story it was based on, "Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep".
Very interesting! I had no idea. Great topics in this series.
“Land of the free-“ unless you like boys or your ancestors were from Africa 🥴
Or if you’re Asian, poor, have different opinions, or have disabilities.
@@derche4005 please explain why
@@derche4005 idk i think a world where two consenting adults arent prosecuted for their personal decisions is a lot better than a society without that trait.
Unless you don't lead your life exactly as is expected from you and you dare to actually try and use any of that freedom. Then you suddenly turn into public enemy number one lol.
@@derche4005 says who bro
If only there had been a way to remove the risk of blackmail.
Hi, I am a long time follower of your channel.
Now that you have started the Pride Month with a video on the Lavender Scare, hope this will get followed by LGBTQ Scenario and persecution beyond the Iron Curtain, and most importantly, the Stonewall Rebellion.
I second the episode on stonewall. May my brothers and sisters be forever remembered!
Agreed, would love to see that video
"The privilege of working for the U.S. Government should not be extended to persons of dubious moral character...." D.C. would be a ghost town if this was even remotely true, dubious moral character is practically a job requirement for politics.
There was a good reason why McCarthy's nickname was Tailgunner Joe. If there was a hell, he would be in it. As it is, he's just dust and never had to pay for his evil in this area and others unless the universal balance took care of him.
Congrats on the video, as this topic gets constantly overlooked. Question: was there any sort of reparation for the people targeted by the lavender scare? If not, are there proposals being discussed today? Greetings from Brazil
Reparations?? In the US??? It does not seem like reparations will ever become a reality (for any group- let alone the queer community)
Fun fact: men kissing men was common among straight men greeting each other in the USSR.
Really interesting video! Thanks for making it.
So Betty Friedan was a LERF, how progressive she was huh? Wow
I read somewhere that she was a CIA operative, as was Gloria Steinam.
She was a liberal feminist, not a radical one.
Oh no! Look like it is time for every edgy American 14 year old who subscribed to learn about military history to unsubscribe and leave a comment about how this video completely devestated them.
@sword-swinging cat The really sad thing is, I have my doubt that it's just edgy teenagers.
Nothing more freedom loving than hating others who love differently than you or have differing ideological views.
Roy Cohn hypocrisy here in aiding McCarthy is disgusting.
Literally. There he was, trying to tie homosexuality with Communism while he himself was engaged in homosexual activities.
Isn't it ironic that the head of the FBI j Edgar Hoover was queer as a three-dollar bill
Wow, it’s crazy how wrong America’s cold war leaders were about homosexual influence. Our society is so much more stable and moral now
Oof, David really triggered the fragile boomers with this one
I finally sw this documentary and I was disappointed by it. I wanted more from it.
so before terfs, there were lerfs?
Why are there so many dislikes?
Because history channels, especially those dealing with military history, unfortunately, attract the worst kind of people. I can't think of any subject where the gap between the channels creators and actual experts (in this case historians) compared to the audience is bigger when it comes to political views and general "niceness".
Seeing "Kings and Generals" leaving a comment under videos made by the youtuber "Contrapoints" for example was a nice surprise. While I'd argue that large parts of his audience are likely similar to the comments you see under this video. Trans- and homophobic, right wing nutjobs, that have no interest in history besides military history.
Buthurt americans probably.
And yes, that pun was intended.
How the hell do you know the ratio? YT isn't showing the dislikes.
@@RoninShinobi88 Google Chrome extension
Because the same people that say "facts don't care about your feelings" are triggered when presented with historical facts that they don't want to hear.
Between the 1950s and 1980s, a lot of change occurred since eventually, change had to come one way or another. Looking at the world today in comparison to back then, we are no longer in a society that limits your expression (unlike in the past where freedom of expression was not the same as it is today).
Sorry to crash your bubble but if you don't toe the Democratic line and agree with their idealogy then you are subject to suppression or censorship. How the news of Hunter Biden's laptop was suppressed until after the election is only one of many examples.
@@Mondo762 Good to know.
I fear the results of campaigns to justify this policy are still with us today with media panics about sexual minorities still very much in evidence and the recycling of earlier panics greeting any call for acceptance and understanding.
We have always been here. We will always BE here. They can try to keep us down, shove us out, stand on our necks. Well guess what? We'll live. Welcome to the new world, we're not going anywhere. Happy pride.
🙄
@@drew4087 🙄
Clown
@@royale7620 Dinosaur.
@@samwill7259 Haha another one who thinks that allowing mental illness to roam the streets is "progress".
In the Soviet Union there was also LGBTQ persecution in the Stalin era
And afterwards. It still carries on today in Russia sadly
But stalinist russia was an evil dictatorship and in the usa you had freedom..
Ohhh wait..
Their anti-gay persecutions continue too. At least we, the US, is trying to level the playing field. If you're gay [and I don't care] where would you want to live? The Netherlands probably. LOL. Cheers
@@paulceglinski3087 thank you! We are very proud of being able to provide freedom for everyone no matrer how they live their lives. Not just the ones who decide to live their lives as others see fit.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 At least we try. Sometimes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions but also those same intentions lead the other way. It is the effort that counts.
GOP: this is when America was great. :/
Omg so many history nerds are also homophobes
@@gunter-s1x A lot of history nerds are fascist.
@Sparks Focusing on just parts of the past!
Hence why they are mad now, this lights something they don't want to see.
Do a video about Yuri Bezmenov and his famous interview talking about ideological subversion .....very relevant these days
It's a shame that society was prejudice against so many people back then
We're regressing day by day as the new reich-wing gets stronger and more open about destroying Americans' rights.
Back then? It's still incredibly hostile towards marginalized communities. I'll point to the fascist backsliding as evidence.
@@ComradeCatpurrnicus good point sir
@@ComradeCatpurrnicus I am sure you mean the woke fascists that are canceling everyone that has a differing opinion or point if view, right?
@@christopherharris3229 "you're not tolerant of our blind and ignorant intolerance, aren't you the same as us?" Oh be quite, being "canceled" for being a bigot is simply having social consequences for being a horrible person that discriminates against people for immutable and or insignificant differences. Keep cring about the "woke mob" though.
Is this why the State Department is called "Foggy Bottom"?
No, that's because it was built next to a literal swamp, which generated truly spectacular fog. However, the Army Corp of Engineers built the Tidal Basin to control the river and to _literally_ drain the swamp. This not only recovered the land that is now Potomac Park (the part of the Mall between the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial) for use, it also almost put an end to the fog of foggy bottom. I worked in the neighborhood for about five years (not at State, but nearby) and I only saw an old fashioned fog once, but man it was unreal. You could not see from one side of the street to the other.
Thank you for highlighting another important part of gay history.
Classic movie Advise & Consent features a primary character, a young Congressman, that is bblackmailed, and commits suicide, over secret homosexuality, by political opponents. The full stereotype, to the letter.
Looking at things now, it’s worse than they could have possibly imagined.
"See, America... You've always been like this."
Basically that if you didn't look "American" you were pretty much on their watch list.
If you didn't look white, Christian and male.
It's happening again with the Republicans winning in the 303 creative case
Tbh, This describes about how authoritian America is acting back them. It felt borderline dictatorial. They claimed to be much more free than the USSR in freedom wise. Turns out it is no different. USSR doesn't look favorably towards gays either thanks to Stalin.
Well, we Americans had card-carrying Communist Harry Hay as co-founder of The Mattachine Society, a founding society of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
I mean... J. Edgar Hoover was homosexual too, but you'd crazy for thinking that suggests gay men are more likely to be fervent anti-communists... In a world with billions of people, you can find prominent people with just about any combination of traits you want - pointing to individual instances is pretty meaningless.
I am awfully sorry that in the twilight years of your life you seem to be succumbing to rambling about long past times.
15:39 49th Parallel
Smells like a discord server in here
Good video as always, but the US/Can border is at 49°N (not 47°)… we’ll mostly 49, west of the Great Lakes anyway. :) (Yes I’m exceedingly pedantic, sorry.)
Unrelated you should do some stuff on the impact of nuclear testing. For example, more radioactive tritium released by Ivy Mike in 1952 than by Fukushima Accident. And the mind reals at what we know the Soviets did.
This is honestly a perfect example of human fear of that which they can't directly relate to since any amount of mental reaching can generally lead to cognitive dissonance, because of that most people just never try to reach beyond their own narrow scope of experience, it's just sad.
Happy pride month!
Muh freedom bruh!!!
Oh! We Americans are so f'ed up. To the World: You still want to immigrate here? Thanks Cold War another excellent vid on an era that needs the spotlight.
Some places are still worse, but as a foreigner who fell to American propaganda as a teen: Nope. I don't want to come there anymore. It's screwed up.
My best friend lives in the US and I'm visiting her by December, all the way in Indiana. I know firsthand from what she tells me how bad things can get there for minorities and lower classes. She's about to marry another Brazilian, he's from São Paulo, but he's only migrating because it's necessary for now, they have all their plans set to leave and go to Europe.
You are still, despite all faults, far superior to the vast majority of places to live on this planet.
Just look at the number of people trying to move in to the "f'ed up" Western nations, compared to other places. I don't know about the USA (I'm in the UK) and altohugh we've got problems, God only knows, last year alone roughly 1,000,000 people decided to move here - a record - and that's not accounting for the tens of thousands who made their own way without a visa! We must be doing something right (and perhaps our tolerance of different groups is a major draw?).
@@alanlawson4180 From this side of the Pond, Thanks for the support. We need it.
@@gtPacheko Thank you for your reply. I know I'm an American and I sometimes wonder about such things.
Despite all the horrible stuff United States did to their citizens and other countries, it was a better place to live than vast majority of the world.
Thanks ! ! !
We're at least trying to recover from this, but us LGBT+ folk still aren't quite there yet. We still have to deal with movie studios.
Soooo..... at 6:37, we're not going to talk about who is sitting to the left of Senator McCarthy? The Evil, the Irony and Hypocrisy is writ large just in that photo.
I kept waiting for David to point out the irony that Roy Cohn, Senator McCarthy's Torquemada, was a notorious closeted homosexual. Cohn and his lover, G. David Schine, were dispatched to various State Department facilities to expose suspected communists and homosexuals. A joke in the State Department at the time went, "Our work must go on, come Cohn or Schine."
What about in USSR were homosexuals allowed in communist party
Hell yeah 😍
Human rights are trans rights
The lavender scare was not about trans people, but about homosexuality.
Algorithm
It’s interesting how Americans here seem invested in this channel’s history content - just not all history. Typical basket of deplorables lol
And yet it's the same people who say "facts don't care about your feelings" being triggered about facts and ragequitting the video, lol.
I guess it makes sense to cover the US side since you covered LGBT status in the USSR.
Thank you for sharing our history! Please do a video on Frank Kameny an his efforts. He is single handily responsible for the rise in the destruction of these policies. He actively pointed out the hypocrisy stated in the law and created the "GAY IS GOOD!" slogan.
Holy shit, this video got black listed by yt.
Lavenders a pretty color, why get scared by a pretty color :(
It's Democratic senators, not Democrat senators.
Saying things like "Democrat Party" is what McCarthy and others got started because they couldn't be honest in identifying the political party they were referring to.
So where did this leave bisexual people?
Probably in the closet
And, depending on if someone really didn’t like you, a ditch.
Probably the same place as gay people. As a bisexual person is "partly" gay.
See it like being labeled a full blown communist for being remotely socially aimed.
Bisexual identity wasn't properly recognised until the 70s and 80s. Many people still refuse to acknowledge. So, chances are that a bi person caught in the Lavender Scare would just be accused of being gay
Wow lots of dislikes on this video.
A lot of people miss the good old days when straight white Christian men could discriminate against anyone different from them with impunity.
@@BTScriviner Yup, lots of bigots still out there. It's a wonder so many aloof people in the comments are talking about this treatment of marginalized people like it's a thing of the past, and not something that's still going on all around the world, and the place where it's "gotten so much better", are still at risk of fascist backsliding. We can't let out guards down, these fascists will take any and all opportunities they have to oppress and terrorize us.
TRANS RIGHTS!
Whenever I read trans rights I hear donkey kong say OK
Meh
cringe
@@officerschnitzel2199 yes indeed, being Anti-Trans is cringe
The lavender scare was about homosexuality, not about trans people.
👍👍
Jesus was gay that's the secret lol
😬
What was the treatment like for homosexuals in the communist block?
At least equally as bad. Authoritarian regimes love to cultivate homophobia: if they want to jail or 'discredit' someone, the accusations don't even have to be true.
Pretty shitty, still shitty. Russia is one of the non-arab nations that most persecute LGBT people to this day, tho it's pretty hard to know the details of the punishments in the Soviet Union just because they were probably destroyed or still remain classified
He has a video on LGBT people in the Soviet Union. Look it up. Nice try at whataboutism.
Yeah they had. However I do not know if the treatment was different in the more liberal socialist nations, those being Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Both of those nations aimed to improve the rights and freedoms of their people, the hungarian model being called "Goulash Communism" and the Czechoslovakian model being "Socialism with a human face". However thr other nations in the Warsaw pact invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968 and stopped their welfare reforms, so I don't think that it was so goot to be LGBT there after 1968.
Great video, but it is unfortunate that you talk about LGBTQ in the title as the lavender scare had nothing to do with trans people, but was about homosexuality.
This is ridiculously 1 sided. After 1934, the USSR criminalized male homosexuality and was far more severe about persecuting them than the US
The USSR labeled homosexuality a capitalist perversion.
It would seem more appropriate to discuss how homosexuals were scapegoated by both sides
He has a video on LGBT people in the Soviet Union. Look it up. Nice try at whataboutism you genius
That is true. Other fun facts Lenin was the first modern leader to decriminalize homosexuality. And East Germany decriminalized homosexuality in 1968 while West Germany decriminalized homosexuality in 1994.
@@matthewkopp2391
Sodomy laws and laws against homosexuals were repealed in France in 1791.
East Germany decriminalized in 1968. Week Germany in 1969
2nd comment
good old days
❤👍
So what did the Soviet Union thought about homosexuality during Kucherov era
Oof a wild wathaboutism spotted
!!!!!!!! 🤟🏳️🌈😘
Oh no! Anyway
🤓🤓
bruh
That is until you are in their shoes and see how it sucks being persecuted for existing.
@@Game_Hero I wont be so not my problem.
@@jackhakken Human empathy and solidarity right here everyone!
Wow this comment section is full of people who for some reason, expect people from a entirely different time period to conform to their 21 century moral standards and are just Shocked when they don't. That's doing a piss poor job understanding history in it's proper context. In other words it's not trying to be a historian or even Jr historian. It's just being a woke activists. 🙄🤨
It was crazy and wrong back then, too, it wasn't like there was no way for policymakers to know better at that point, either. Obviously, MacCarthyism found homophobia convenient to their pollitics.
Not at all. Do you believe slavery is OK because in the 19th century it was accepted? One can condemn a past behavior without it being "woke." The fact that you're using such phrasing just proves you're a reich-wing shit stirrer.
OK? And?
@@smns34087 And what??? That's it. There's nothing after that.
Bit light on topics about the cold war?
This is about the cold war...the whole video is...
@@BitchyHistory focusing on the 0.3% is not the cold war. Who's in next week's 0.3% episode? Hamsters??, they lived during the cold war too you know....
@@sethman75 the paranoia and witch hunts of the period are incredibly important to the culture of the cold war. If hamsters were part of had, I'd happily listen to an episode about it. This is an entire channel dedicated to the cold war, there's plenty of space and time to discuss the social and cultural nuances of the period.