WINDING A TORSION SPRING Tips 660 tubalcain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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Hello Mr. Pete, I discovered your channel about two weeks ago when searching for how to read a micrometer and I have to say I’m now hooked, you’re very knowledgeable and explain things so that even non-mechanical guys like myself can understand. I can imaging that you’ve mentored many skilled tradesmen in your time. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Cheers, Andy 🇨🇦
Thank you very much for joining me. I have over 1000 videos
Welcome to the very small club of people who can read a micrometer. Mr. Pete's videos should have a warning label. They are THAT addicting!😁
@reitsound I don't know why. Reading mics with scales seems to be too hard for many people. I worked at a shop with approximately 150 and only 4 or 5 of us could read a standard micrometer. The company had to buy all digital.
I feel smarter after watching your videos! thanks I need all the help I can get.
Good morning Mr. Pete! Glad to see you again, sir.
Thanks Mr. Pete just what I needed. I have to make a couple of those for belt tensionners on my project snowblower.
Another thing that I can use, if this keeps up I'll need a bigger shop. thanks for the lesson
Hi Mr. Peterson,
I am just grateful to wake up and have another day to waste... Thank you for an enjoyable video...
Take care
Paul,,
A day is not wasted if you enjoy yourself
That was fun! I couldnt help to think about how it would smart if the the wire jumped off the cap screw with the groove you cut in it. The long tail of the spring wire would wack you like a stiff switch that your Pop would make you cut from out back when he got in from the field and Mom told him how much trouble you were that day.
mocarp1 that thing would be so vicious it would cut you in bloody half!
I always enjoy your videos and learn something new from each one. Thank you so much.
Hi Lyle,
When I need some coil springs I'll know where you come. 😉
I made a similar device to roll 40x5 flat bar into a 20mm internal diameter for truck side hinges. Basically a "d" shape. Worked well.
You just need to mount the bender on a column and just keep walking around it.
Regards Dennis.
Yes, I had One at the school that you could walk around. But they need to be mounted to bed rock
Aah 5.56 mm. The music of my people
i like that number, has a ring to it
Thankyou Mr Pete, new watcher and will be making a bender identical to that today for square stock.
A handsome beautiful grandson, if I had known grandchildren were so much fun, we would of had them first.
Alfred Jones yes because at the end of the day you can hand them back!
I totally agree
😂
You have a very nice and sweet helper!!!
Yes
Good afternoon from the UK
Great idea👍
Good job
Hello Pete, nice job
I could see that you had to pull harder on the spring steel. I like the simplicity of the bender.
I'm going to make a similar bender but with a detatachable pined pipe handle I'll use it to form s hooks from .250" stainless rod and maybe a spring or two, thanks for the video
👍👍
I have made two of Jerry’s belt grinders. Boy I wish this video was out two years ago. I just but a pipe in the end, and just about killed my shelf.
It is very dangerous if you cannot control the material
The lever arm length is the real advantage because the longer the lever the less physical force is required. There is a mathematical formula that explains it but reality is simple that the longer the lever the easier it will be to work. Helical displacement is standard and expected and explains the offset required on the lever from the axis. For the tighter bends on the hardened wire I would suggest annealing the metal before bending it and then re-hardening it but that would require more tooling than a basic shop has.
Annealing cold-drawn wire (which is what music wire is, per ASTM A228) would permanently degrade its tensile strength. You could buy chrome-silicon wire (per ASTM A401) in an annealed state (a special-order item, I believe, as it too normally comes in the hardened state) and then heat-treat after winding.
Now that you have the tooling, you can get a production contract with Farm and Fleet to make hay rake teeth.
lol
Very interesting technique. I'll be using it on a smaller scale for gunsmithing work. I'm curious though, could you use drill rod and then heat/quench it? Might be easier to work if you could induce the springy-ness with heat treating. Great video, thanks
I would say no
I have made quite few small coil compression and torsion springs for locks over the years using the same basic method. Always starting with spring stock in a hardened and tempered state. I have also questioned whether this was the best method. Springs that required very sharp bends were rarely successful leading me to believe that making the spring fully annealed and then hardening and tempering was the better way. More recently made a ball and cap mainspring using spring stock from Brownells. It came annealed to allow the shaping and filing needed prior to the hardening and tempering. I don't think you could successfully make the extreme hairpin bend required without the spring steel being in the soft state. So I don't see why coiled springs could also be made that way.
@@dougmacqueen1679 Music wire (per ASTM A228) is a cold-drawn wire that has insane tensile strengths that are developed by drawing it through dies. It has such a low manganese content that it would require a very severe quench to harden all the way through, and even then I'm not sure that 7/32" could develop full hardness. It is not intended to be quenched-and-tempered.
Chrome-silicon wire (per ASTM A401) is "quenched-and-tempered" (meaning, it has a martensitic microstructure), and in 7/32" size actually has an edge in tensile strength over music wire. It too normally comes in the hardened state, although I believe it can be had annealed as a special-order item. In this relatively large size, I believe that heat-treating it after winding would result in a much higher elastic range, although, that is not true for the smaller sizes.
Both music wire and chrome-silicon have pretty amazing ductility despite their high hardness levels.
Note that a torsion spring should NOT be stress-relieved after winding, provided that the loads that it encounters in service tend to "wind-it-up." This is because there are residual stresses that increase its elasticity. If it is loaded in the "wrong direction" (the load tends to unwind it), then it should be stress relieved.
Compression springs made of music wire should be stress-relieved for 30 minutes at about 450F before stressing them in any way. The residual stresses induced by the winding process do not increase their elastic range. The stress-relief temperature for chrome-silicon is higher than that.
Mr. Pete. 💪
Mr Pete, why is it called music wire?
Could all the project, except the music bars, ofcurse, made of wood?
thanks.
all good to know
Goatee-neatly trimmed.
Nosehair-letting it grow out a bit.
that music wire i think is high carbon steel. One could heat up the mild steel orange hot and quench it in oil, that would make it almost as hard as the music wire.
Nope! Mild steel doesn't heat treat. Need higher carbon content like SAE
1070-1090. Heat treated and tempered for best results
Music wire (per ASTM A228) is not a low-carbon steel, although, being cold-drawn wire, you would certainly destroy its mechanical properties by heat treating it in the manner you described. This wire is not intended to be quenched-and-tempered.
If you want to heat-treat a spring after winding it, you should be using annealed chrome-silicon wire, which is a special-order item. It normally comes already heat-treated.
oh and im not 80 but i even love when you do repeat videos
Thanks
thanks alot
I like that alot easier than the way my dad showed me
I need a spring in my step. Any ideas?
How much more energy/leverage was necessary to do the spring steel as compared to the mild steel?
Lots more effort
I think you just invented a new workout machine for the whole body workout program. Probably see it being peddled on late night info-merchals soon.
lol
Lyle, could your torsion spring have been made of mild steel then heated and quenched in oil to harden it?
Not mild steel, maybe high carbon steel
@@mrpete222 I tried to make a chisel from high carbon steel. I heated it up until it was cherry red, and made the mistake of quenching it in water. I didn't have any oil to quench it in, so the first time I tried to use it, it shattered like glass. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Yes i agree with Mr. Pete. You need SAE 1070-1090 anealed, form your spring then heat treat and temper.
Your lil helper is more handsome than you. Cheers. And thank you.
You sir are a teacher for life. The details and content you explain is amazing. Thanks a million
Thanks
I follow more than 100 TH-cam channels over the last years, all similar to your channel.
As a beginner I ran into your channel years and years ago, ( 26 videos you had by then)and when I am looking back, not one single channel has contributed more to my present knowledge as yours. Unbeleavable your production! and I have seen all of them!
As a selfemployed male yet 61 years old with a very nice workshop with Swiss machines
and some German ones ,all dated I enjoy every spare time in the shop using the thousands of hours watching the philantrobes like you and become part of one big family .
Besides that , my group of friends has grown and consists mostly of machinists.
This video shows in a few minutes at least a day work .
Thank you
Luc Bleckmann Netherlands Europe
Thank you very much for an Encouraging comment. I’m glad you like my videos. Keep watching and tell your friends I’m glad we share a great hobby
Nicely done.
I can see how the arm length can be inconvenient, but I like the additional leverage and control. I need all the help I can get!
Thanks.
Really interesting video, Mr. Pete. Would love to see a metal bender project in your future videos!
Chemists and such “waste” years to get a final result, if any. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
Thanks for sharing how to make a torsion spring. Now you can make some steel rings from the practice piece.
Good decision to cut a radius in the jig to guide the wire. I could see issues without it. Torsion springs can be dangerous.
Imagine how big of an AR that would fit
Pew-pew!😂
A wasted day in the shop beats a wasted day in front of the TV!
Actually, that is quite a profound statement
Lyle . Longer is ways better . 🤠 .
Hi Mr Pete, I had to make some springs last week, a friend of mine who owns a spring making business came round to look at my set up on the lathe and says they temper the springs when wound , it shrinks them a bit but makes them less liable to break, he suggested heating them to a straw colour,
It is interesting to know
You should not stress-relieve a torsion spring, as it has residual stresses induced by the winding process that increase its elastic range. You would be producing an inferior spring by doing so. A compression spring made of music wire should be stress-relieved at about 450F for 30 minutes, since the residual stresses degrade its elastic range.
I don't remember what I was working on but I had a project that required me to use a piece of piano wire and boy was I surprised at how hard that stuff was. I was not making a spring but I did need to cut it. Thanks for this example of making a spring. I did not know what material would be needed to fabricate one.
Looks like the job for a worm-driven winch !
Oh cool. Now you can make one for my friends skid steer trailer. I will provide you with the 1.0" spring rod ;)
Or u can make your own....
Excellent results I'd say. :-)
That is one hellacious spring. You could make a mouse trap to catch wolves with that thing. I would not want to be in its way if it were to be released!
Question: you've mentioned in the past that you taught welding as well as machining in the past, but I've never seen you weld anything in all the projects you've made. Do you just not enjoy welding?
You are right, I haven’t done it in a long time. And I am not crazy about welding.
Bagus om pembuatan springnya. 👍🤝🇮🇩 Indonesia
Thank you very much! I fly model airplanes and need to recreate some landing gear for a upcoming restoration. The legs are no longer made.
Thanks for making this video, I have Jeremy Scmhidt's belt sander plans, been collecting materials for the build. Got enough on hand to build your spring winder. This is great!
👍
Thank you for the video. I recently got rid of a old box spring from our old bed. Being the cheap person I am. I cut it up using bolt cutters and stuffed it piece by piece into my garbage can for over a month to get rid of it. It was heavy wire in it's construction it very hard and springy.It was made of two different sizes of wire. I saved about 10 feet of each size for future projects.
Good morning. Do you heat treat your spring after winding to stress relieve it and reduce its brittleness?
No
According to my friend who own a spring production shop...it is good practice to heat treat...400° in an oven for an hour ( been awhile..will have to ask him again) this reduces the stress in the spring steel and lengthens life span by reducing the risk of cracks. All the best and have a great day.
You should not stress-relieve a torsion spring that is wound in the "normal" direction (a direction that would tend to wind-it-up further). That is because the stresses tend to increase its elastic range, and you would be producing an inferior spring by stress-relieving it at 450F for 30 minutes.
For a compression spring, you should absolutely stress relieve it for 30 minutes at 450F before stresses it in any way, since the residual stresses in this type of spring impede its elastic range.
Music wire is incredibly ductile despite its high hardness.
Brilliant... as usual! A potentially dangerous procedure. Cutting the groove is a VERY good idea. I wonder if I could come up with some secondary way to ensure that the wire does not fly off and into your (my) body somehow... I will have to give it some thought...
Goodnight Mr! Just the information I was looking for for a long time. I want to make a homemade handgrip to exercise arms. I have a question: should I heat the steel? . What equipment do I need to start my small production. Thank you very much, greetings from Argentina.
I need to make a spring with a much smaller diameter than 7/32. I need a spring that is probably 1 mm in diameter. I just can’t think of what I can use for my material. Any suggestions? Much appreciated 🙏🏻
Just a note to let you know I watched it again. . . 2 years later. Now I'm going to look for another, more specific, spring lesson.
If the spring on your floor jack breaks....here`s the solution if you cannot find one. Thanks.
Cool bender that you made, that worked really well!
Morning
36" bend bar, l like the long one.
Grandkids are the best kids. Spoil them and send them home 😁
lol
Y0u can make.simple tool for bulk production
Henry is growing up on us! Great design on the bender. For that size wire, I think the long handle was the perfect length for ease of bend, and control. Great work.
👍👍
Worked one summer at a place that made brake springs back in the late 60's. (back in drum brake era) The machines I was involved with used about #9 wire and looked like an extremely heavy duty drill press with forming tools for the loop at one end. Believe we worked with soft steel as to test strength we had to heat/cool the partially finished spring to test for tension. When set up correctly, the machine worked flawlessly. When it got out of calibration, parts would fly!!
Thank you, that was interesting
Mr Pete, I laughed really hard when you said you wasted a whole day. NOT at you, but with you because I had a day like that in the shop too! Great video, thanks for making it.
Yes
Excellent! Love these “universal” tips!
Fully annealed 1075 stock is what I've had success with in the past. After forming, Heat treatment is straightforward. Heat to about medium red with torch or in a forge. Quench in ATF. Bake at 400°f about an hour. Air cool. Done.
Good idea, it would be better than fighting with that tough music wire
Great show. Love it!
Thanks
What material do you use for the spring?
It is always good to see Master Henry
Excelente video, lo endenti solo con las imagenes.
Now let's make a giant mouse trap ..Not really it would not be wise to make something that dangerous
Thanks for sharing!
Can a piece of copper be used instead of steel?
thanks Pete got one to do next week 👓
Hard to believe that music wire was made in the USA!! You needed a second man, would have saved some shifting around the table corner. Great work.
Wow! That was great! A totally simple set up that performed with ease. Just the video I was looking for. Thanks!
👍
@@mrpete222 SUBSCRIBED
Heel mooi 👍
Great job of spring winding. I made Jeremys belt grinder and I was not able to wind the spring. I wound up with a mangled mess so I changed to straight extension springs. It works the same but does not follow his example. I guess I should have asked you how to wind the spring. Thanks for the video.
Believe me, it is not easy. I had many failures which I did not show you
I tried to cut some 1/16 diameter spring to length with a pair of side cutters. I gave it all I got with my hands and barely made a divot. I then put the cutters in the bench vise and started to gronk on it. There was a flash of light, a massive great bang, and a dull thud against my forehead.
When I regained my wits and went to retrieve my two pieces of spring from the floor, I found I had but a single spring and two pieces of side cutters. 😆
Wow
Nice
You can make simple hand winding prodction will be fast you method is stupid i have got 40years experience in spring li manufacturing line
I am a stupid man
What makes it spring steel , more carbon ?
Wayne Murphy in a word yes a very high carbon content but I'm not too sure if the percentage, could be as high as 1.5% or more.
Music Wire (per ASTM A228) has a carbon content of 0.7-1.00%. It is "patented" meaning heated up red-hot (in a factory, not as home) and dragged through molten lead or salt to cool it rapidly and form a fine crystal structure. Then, it is drawn through progressively smaller dies to develop insane tensile strengths.
Chemically, it is unremarkable, and has been manufactured for several hundred years.
At least if the zombies attach you can still make your wife some clothes pins now.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Two videos in one day, I like. Watched and enjoyed.
Thanks
And want to come in tomorrow. And there was one yesterday
👍
I have wound smaller torsion springs for years just using a small hand drill. Usually it was .025, .035 or .041 music wire. Nothing on the size or scale you did. I did pretty good doing it. One interesting fact is that regular music wire will lessen the preload on the torsion spring. Stainless wire will had preload when heated. I heat treat in an oven for about 10 minutes at 500 degrees. Thanks for posting this. I never had much luck doing it on the lathe.
Do you have any videos covering springs? Sortakinda like your series on metals? Types, materials, how to make? THANK YOU!
Great video. I always wondered why it was called music wire? The small stuff yes but that “wire” was really thick. Too big for any piano I’ve ever seen.
Acually, I was curious the name “Tubalcain” on your post has Masonic Roots. A “Traveling Man” is how we refer to a Brother Freemason.
And “Tubalcain” was the first skilled worker of brass and other metals.
There is a story about him in the Scriptures.
Beautiful and effective design; I love it! Handsome grandson too! I wish mine were like him when they grow up :-))
I think Snow White is looking for your helper, since he's Bashfull. Enjoyed
Excellent. Thank you for posting
who did the math on the spring? seems to me you could go thru a lot of expensive material to get what you need.