I bet that system sounds incredible, I’m desperate to hear the FR30s up close somewhere, not that I’m the target market, way outside my budget, but I utterly respect and admire the design and build quality.
I can validate the multiple subs concept. My system which already incorporates multiple subs, sounds, to me, fantastic. My local dealer recently closed down and sold off it’s remaining stock at bargain prices. I purchased a small, down firing sub, which I placed on the floor behind my listening position. My system now sounds, phenomenal. The illusion is better serced if your subs are hidden!
There is some good reading on DBA on DIYAUDIO. The key concept is you listen to a wall of bass coming from one wall (the front) and a second set of subs are on the opposite wall with a phase offset tuned to the room to cancel out all the bass just in front of that wall. So you sit in the middle with wonderful bass with no nulls or peaks since it is not bouncing back and forth but being terminated at the rear. A reasonable sized room will need 8 subs and a dsp processor that knows how to cancel the bass at the rear..
Please give more details on near field subwoofer placement. Are they elevated off the floor? Is the woofer pointed at the listener? Would a downfiring subwoofer work, what about one with a passive radiator on a dipole configuration. Are such large drivers as 20" desirable for the use case? Wouldn't smaller, faster drivers be better?
I would suppose that as subwoofers are mainly omnidirectional is not so important where they point to. Is more important their placement so you change the place where they peak (to the listening position).
@@SJMessinwithBoats ......what I was trying to say was the setup in music room 3 is absolutely fantastic ... most audiophiles would give their right hand to own such a rig ....and here Paul is going on about its shortcomings and weaknesses ... I have a pretty good setup in my place including ( unlike PS Audio's rooms..) a custom built listening room with a 5 sided room with a vaulted ( conical ) ceiling ... there are no standing waves ... I'm 43 🥹
@@janinapalmer8368 Your ceiling sounds so nice. I think you mentioned that about 4 years ago. Its one of my dreamy go to places. I like to stare up at the ceiling when I'm trying to figure stuff out. Paul has his design and I have mine. This is the year to express a summation of what I have learned. Your thoughts over the years has great importance.😊
@@SJMessinwithBoats .....thank you so much 😃... I'll keep on throwing my thoughts and experience into Paul's Audio Club ... no one person can know everything pertaining to this fascinating subject ... but together we sure represent a vast resource of info ...!!
Wouldn't be easier to set up any system with the subwoofers separated from the main front speakers? The room interaction is different, and to have integrated the bass/sub-bass on the same enclosure makes it harder if not impossible.
if you want more than two subwoofers then i like the plane array subwoofer, only front wall has subwoofer drivers on it, not densely packed but with spacing. then rear wall has bass absorption. that way you get a perfect bass wave and every location in the room has the same bass. use one subwoofer if you can not fit two, otherwise have two and in the front corners or middle sidewalls, maybe something in-between. hooked up in stereo.
A sub array is really only suitable in big concert halls or outside. The speaker on the back wall is correct but off the ground two or three feet and out of phase is the best approach. Less likely to get comb filtering as well from the bass
takes 7 feet to develope a 1/4 wave 40 hz note.. all this talk of close subs works in 2 ways..1 you get the upper bass impact that you dont get from subs 10 feet away..and the sound goes forward and reflects back and gives you the bottom end.. its tricky .you must move the seating distance and woofer till u find where they come back in phase..
If a $30k 450-lb pair of speakers with eight 8" woofers and eight 10" passive radiators needs additional subwoofers to supplement the bass, something is very wrong.
It’s always “THE ROOM” the “ROOM CORRECTION” Blame “The Room” LOL. You see this is how it is supposed to work out. You buy a Audiophile system first. You set it up on the concrete foundation and build your Audiophile house around the Audiophile system..😎😀🤗
You're not an Audiophile until your tie rack is replaced for hanging your excess cables or one of your emails per week isn't to your dealer or company inquiring about products.
I don't get it. Why spend so much on subs when you can buy treatment that tackles those issues (ie. diaphragmatic absorption) in general? Assuming you get the right treatment and you are ok sacrificing space.
Paul....if you added more subs it wouldn't maybe sounded better.....I guarantee it would sound better. Why fight it? You know it's the truth. Rooms are our systems worst enemy. Yours is no different.
I bet that system sounds incredible, I’m desperate to hear the FR30s up close somewhere, not that I’m the target market, way outside my budget, but I utterly respect and admire the design and build quality.
Many larger high end home theaters employ 4 subs to level out the bass through the room/theater...usually in the 4 corners.
I can validate the multiple subs concept. My system which already incorporates multiple subs, sounds, to me, fantastic. My local dealer recently closed down and sold off it’s remaining stock at bargain prices. I purchased a small, down firing sub, which I placed on the floor behind my listening position. My system now sounds, phenomenal. The illusion is better serced if your subs are hidden!
Best sub integration I've heard are 2 corner woofers and the lyngdorf room correction with high and low pass filters.
There is some good reading on DBA on DIYAUDIO. The key concept is you listen to a wall of bass coming from one wall (the front) and a second set of subs are on the opposite wall with a phase offset tuned to the room to cancel out all the bass just in front of that wall. So you sit in the middle with wonderful bass with no nulls or peaks since it is not bouncing back and forth but being terminated at the rear. A reasonable sized room will need 8 subs and a dsp processor that knows how to cancel the bass at the rear..
I wrote about it on Audio Science Review recently.
@@Rene_Christensen Cool!
Please give more details on near field subwoofer placement. Are they elevated off the floor? Is the woofer pointed at the listener? Would a downfiring subwoofer work, what about one with a passive radiator on a dipole configuration. Are such large drivers as 20" desirable for the use case? Wouldn't smaller, faster drivers be better?
I would suppose that as subwoofers are mainly omnidirectional is not so important where they point to. Is more important their placement so you change the place where they peak (to the listening position).
That’s a heck of a listening room!
I know it's totally off-topic, but those speakers look so good!!!👌🏻 Would love to hear them.
I wonder how many houses in the States have all the nice expensive gear that's on display in music room 3 here ? 1 in a 100..? Or 1 in 10,000...?
Not sure what you are going on about, but I have yet to see one room like that. But then again i'm just too young at 61.
@@SJMessinwithBoats ......what I was trying to say was the setup in music room 3 is absolutely fantastic ... most audiophiles would give their right hand to own such a rig ....and here Paul is going on about its shortcomings and weaknesses ...
I have a pretty good setup in my place including ( unlike PS Audio's rooms..) a custom built listening room with a 5 sided room with a vaulted ( conical ) ceiling ... there are no standing waves ... I'm 43 🥹
@@janinapalmer8368 Your ceiling sounds so nice. I think you mentioned that about 4 years ago. Its one of my dreamy go to places.
I like to stare up at the ceiling when I'm trying to figure stuff out. Paul has his design and I have mine.
This is the year to express a summation of what I have learned.
Your thoughts over the years has great importance.😊
@@SJMessinwithBoats .....thank you so much 😃... I'll keep on throwing my thoughts and experience into Paul's Audio Club ... no one person can know everything pertaining to this fascinating subject ... but together we sure represent a vast resource of info ...!!
Hi Paul! Do you have any information on those chairs? They look comfortable. Thanks!
Interesting discussion.
Wouldn't be easier to set up any system with the subwoofers separated from the main front speakers? The room interaction is different, and to have integrated the bass/sub-bass on the same enclosure makes it harder if not impossible.
I hope you are working on your own bass arrays. Non ported, fully adjustable phase controls, powered by your own class d gannet 1000 watt amp.
if you want more than two subwoofers then i like the plane array subwoofer, only front wall has subwoofer drivers on it, not densely packed but with spacing. then rear wall has bass absorption. that way you get a perfect bass wave and every location in the room has the same bass.
use one subwoofer if you can not fit two, otherwise have two and in the front corners or middle sidewalls, maybe something in-between. hooked up in stereo.
Absorption on the rear wall to act and sound like an open space?
@@pablohrrg8677 rear wall mostly for absorbing bass, probably best to have some diffusers or wood slits on top.
A sub array is really only suitable in big concert halls or outside.
The speaker on the back wall is correct but off the ground two or three feet and out of phase is the best approach. Less likely to get comb filtering as well from the bass
What music do you enjoy?
Fun! The Marantz AV-10 has 4 directional sub connectors for array. I am quite happy with 2 subs thank you. lol
For 99.9% of the world.. fr30 will be all that is ever listened..
If the starship Enterprise has a listening deck , that’s what it would look like:)
Using 2 subs in nearfield eliminates the need for this. By nearfield I mean directly flanking the listening position firing into it from either side.
takes 7 feet to develope a 1/4 wave 40 hz note.. all this talk of close subs works in 2 ways..1 you get the upper bass impact that you dont get from subs 10 feet away..and the sound goes forward and reflects back and gives you the bottom end.. its tricky .you must move the seating distance and woofer till u find where they come back in phase..
If a $30k 450-lb pair of speakers with eight 8" woofers and eight 10" passive radiators needs additional subwoofers to supplement the bass, something is very wrong.
It’s always “THE ROOM” the “ROOM CORRECTION” Blame “The Room” LOL.
You see this is how it is supposed to work out.
You buy a Audiophile system first. You set it up on the concrete foundation and build your Audiophile house around the Audiophile system..😎😀🤗
Do.....do you watch his videos?
Well, it is "kick Ass High End" Its Pauls man cave, he's not taking that system home to wifey.
Of course the speakers could be near perfect, just spend the money to build an ideal room for them.
You probably need to listen more to what he is saying and focus less on the price of the speaker. Just a suggestion.
Paul should be a Sailor because he can go any which way the wind blows.
You're not an Audiophile until your tie rack is replaced for hanging your excess cables or one of your emails per week isn't to your dealer or company inquiring about products.
I have all kinds of cables on hangers in my closet, but I dont consider myself an audiophile
@@scottyo64 Guess your not a lover of high quality music then?
@@Audiofreak71 just a lover of music
Maybe you just need a decent flatscreen TV or fireplace between the speakers :)
Too bad Gene Czerwinski isn't around to help.
One word ....equalizer.
I don't get it. Why spend so much on subs when you can buy treatment that tackles those issues (ie. diaphragmatic absorption) in general? Assuming you get the right treatment and you are ok sacrificing space.
🧐Almost every video you do is a shameless promo👏 🤪
no shame involved......
@@googoo-gjoob his word, not mine, goopy.
30,000.00 for speakers and still need a sub...
And new items will be dreamt up over time - just a never ending thing.
@@erdemkaya6472
$1200.00 iPhone plus headphones..😀👍🤗😎✅
Peanut butter and jelly sandwich’s for the next 5 months..LOL
Need is a strange word, as no room is ideal and we all have different expectations.
Nah
Paul....if you added more subs it wouldn't maybe sounded better.....I guarantee it would sound better. Why fight it? You know it's the truth. Rooms are our systems worst enemy. Yours is no different.