Da Shieldmasta He doesn't knock white/red. He knocks the colors/pair for your color identity because the colors lack the full variety of tools you want access to in every deck.
DJ is great. I really love how he is always trying to stay positive and rarely outright says that cards or strategies are bad (even when they are). I know that Jimmy and Josh don't hate these weaker strategies or cards, but sometimes it feels a little bit to negative when they talk about them. DJ's positivity is (in my opinion) a great counterpart to Josh's harsh criticism.
DJ, you are doing a great job as co-host. It's obvious you love talking about Magic and Commander and you always have something insightful to add. Josh, you seem like you had more fun in this episode than I've seen you have in a while, and it makes the show so much better. The last few episodes with DJ have been some of the best episodes, in my opinion.
As a deckbuilder of EDH for 10+ years this is one of my favorite episodes of your channel! I am stunned with how good the presentation of divisions of speed / social contract / card value etc... all fits together. Thank you Josh and JumboCommander!!!!! If i could be a patron i would soley based on this video. plz more like it.
Note* in Competitive EDH (CEDH) there are no concessions, not even budget. In many play groups, proxies are encouraged so everyone can play to the max power level.
I like that proxy part a lot.. other peoples budget always limited my fun eventually I like to build decks online and then order the cards after testing. The problem is that the people I play most are not willing to spend as much as I do. I hate the pay to win aspect of magic. They should just do what they tried with chronicles Just reprint dual lands etc with a white border and new logo in a special non standard set
it's been played twice (afaik) on commander vs, stephen green built it but both times justin parnell played it. the first iteration was here: th-cam.com/video/AtG_lLI-VXw/w-d-xo.html and the second was here: th-cam.com/video/s8POTCFJyyE/w-d-xo.html
It might be interesting to look at mana bases from decks in different catagories, I think they're pretty telling: Competitive will have all the fetches and duals available and play expensive multicolor-lands and utility lands. Optimized would look similar, but maybe shocks instead of duals and less expensive utility lands. When we get to focused I think we don't have fetches anymore, as they are quite expensive, especially when you need shocks as well. I think we won't see filter lands as well. Now we have 2-3 color lands maybe temples/bouncelands and we start seeing more basics. Here we'll probably see medium expensive but fine lands, like check lands and Cycle lands and the battlebondlands. When we get to casual, I think the manabase works but will be slow and the lands are cheap. Bouncelands, Temples, Guildgates, Refuge lands and similar is probably where we're at, and there are more basics. I think the manabase you build and you can afford will tell a lot about your deck and where to put it on the list, and I think budget restrictions really kick in here.
I'm gonna miss jumbo when he leaves lol, I also love jimmy and can't wait for him to come back but hopefully they all begin to regularly work together after this. Command zone and jumbo commander take the cake when it comes to commander content on TH-cam.
This was one of my favorite episodes by far. Have only been playing for around a year and a half and am still learning a ton about deck building. Sharing this with my play group! You guys are awesome.
A note on the "phyrexian arena" vs "read the bone" topic, if you played the said card on curve on t3 it doesn't matter how many cards you net the first turn its played if you no longer have the mana to play them, by the second turn it was played you only behind 1 card
Yeah I think that the mana is an important part that they left out. Each turn after you have you played Phyexian Arena you have an extra card AND have all of your mana open to cast spells. Playing read the bones means that you get the cards and you often have to wait a turn to play more than one of them.
The other piece of context for the Phyrexian Arena and the Read the Bones debate is cost of drawing a card. The average cost of drawnig a card is 1.5 mana. Read the Bones is on curve for two cards you get some added value because you can scry two which is not card draw but card quality. For actual resources you still only get two cards. Phyrexian Arena has the potential ti be inefficient if it is destroyed earlier but often that does not happen. Once you draw three cards with Arena though your cost to draw a card drops to 1 mana per card and will continue to drop for each card drawn. From the resources spent per card Arena is the better play. I also think the measured 1 card per turn is very efficient when you are drawing a lot of cards as you will be less likely to have to discard any cards.
I could see "read the bone" being much better the Lower the avg cmc in a deck is, because if you play "read the bones" on a turn where you have 5 mana and you don't draw anything low enough to be casted that turn cycle, the next turn you will only be 1 cards ahead of where you would be with the arena , But if you draw something with cmc 2 you could play it immediately
My first EDH deck was upgraded precon Meren. It's somewhere around "focused" and "optimized," but I found out that when it does work, it just isn't very fun. Spore frogging every turn until I can get in front and my opponents can't keep up with sacrificing their creatures. I started a Sram deck from jank and I have fun every time.
Pink, nervous, and generating bottom vibes like its mana in urza block. Bears used to be masc and ramp used to have risks. This is what happens when you take away mana burn.
Man this is a great video! Great discussions Josh and DJ! I didn't even think of some of the things that you talked about, and the comparison to Phyrexian Arena to Read the Bones I think is very interesting! I think this is a great way to go about deck power levels and tuning your decks! I think most of my decks fit in the focused category, but I've been slowly changing my decks over time this year to be more optimized. Time to make some deck changes!
In my decks, I usually carry several options for generals to modify my power level. In my Karador deck, I run Ikra and Tymna as well, and I can swap them with Karador to power down my deck. It doesn't destroy the deck completely, but it powers it down just enough to go from focused to casual, meaning I can play with janky decks or optimised decks and still have a great time.
loved this! I'm usually not much for podcasts, but you guys are enthralling! Extremely interesting, and intelligent. And I love DJ's shirt! Stay frosty!
I would love to see game nights showcasing different levels. Or perhaps a statement on the power levels of the decks being played. I am still trying to figure it out.
I came to this video because I've been trying to make a deck featuring Desecrated Tomb for a while now and you literally used it as an example! How crazy is that?! You guys made some really good points in this video, particularly the one about cards that become "distraction" cards in your deck. You might mistake them for synergy, but they actually gimp your deck in some way by either slowing it down, or making it inconsistent. Hopefully I can smooth it out with this advice. Keep up the great analysis.
I think that most of my decks sit around the 6-8 range, and I’ve felt like I’m the “Archenemy” of sorts in some of my Commander games, so I’ve been trying to bring down the power of my decks or, if I don’t want to change the deck, the power of my playing. One of the best ways I’ve found to “tune down” my playing is to have a combo on board but to wait for a turn cycle or two, depending on how the game is going, and give people a chance to notice and/or respond in some sort of way before going off. Great show, guys! Keep up the great work.
I only have the skill level to play janky decks and I am able to keep up with some higher level decks. Though these tips are just what I needed to improve my deck building. Thanks Josh and DJ!
Wow, DJ is fantastic here! I've followed his Jumbo Commander channel for a good while so it's cool to see him here on The Command Zone and doing such a great job as a co-host. When I saw this video was over an hour-and-a-half I kinda groaned and figured I'd only be able to watch part of it (short attention span here) but I stuck around until the end. Great job, guys!
I love building decks with Jank-level restrictions (like "only River Heralds aligned cards from Ixalan"), but if you know what you're doing you can often tune those to be at LEAST casual, if not focused. My advice for improving Jank decks are: * Identify synergies and emphasise them. You may be running only cards that depict characters in chairs, but do a large number of them care about, say, gaining life? Then it might be best to prioritise lifegain cards over others, even if they're slightly weaker in a vacuum. * Prioritise removal. Removal is almost always going to be the most difficult section to fill in, but it's super important. If you don't have enough removal, you may need to accept some subpar removal spells to fill out the numbers. * Practice playing your deck. This is important for all decks, but particularly for lower power decks if you want to do well. You need to be weary of what you need in your opening hand, be aware of what how much of your removal covers the current threat and prioritise keeping your scarce removal, and so on. * Consider your early game. Your deck is slower, so you NEED to make sure you can reach the late game. Removal will play in here too, as getting rid of an early game ender is going to be vital when it comes up. As for hard mode win conditions, they're nice to have. Most of my decks have one alternate way to win, be it Revel In Riches in pirates, or Forerunner/Polyraptor in dinosaurs, and they can allow you to have a fun win AND give you something to do if your main wincon is shut down somehow.
Ben Sherson honestly this is the primary way I build decks and I think it makes it really hard to assign a scale to most of the decks. But I agree you can differently hit focused with jank styled restrictions.
Most of my decks are 5's. I hate spending hundreds on a deck, but i do my best to be as synergistic as possible without making my wife mad lol. I also put helm of the host in every deck. Its too much fun, cmc be damned.
I put Godo + Helm in every one of my decks that runs red because my LGS is just full of people playing combo. Every so often, I'll get a win just by turning vampires sideways, or someone running a big-butt dragon deck or slivers will do likewise, but 80% of all the games end in someone generating infinite mana, bouncing every permanent infinitely, teferi lock, curiosity niv mizzet, rings + monolith, non-host helm for 1 + exiled graveyards, tainted remedy + becon, and so on.
Great episode, guys! DJ is such pleasure to listen to, and you guys provide a great example of how to argue respectively - rather than just waiting for your turn to speak (or flat out interrupting), listen to the person you have the conflict with, process the perspective they are providing, and respond. And at some point, ya gotta just agree that you are coming at it from different angles. There was a recent guest where this was not the case (ahem), and that episode was nearly unwatchable. In regards to Jimmy, I'm hoping some time away does him some good, as he hasn't seemed happy for a while (although there is so much that goes on outside the show and behind the scenes, it's impossible to have the correct perspective from out here). It's something I've wondered about for several episodes now, and the joy and passion I felt in this episode confirmed it. Who knows... but as a fellow red mage, I hate it when I'm out of gas and it feels like I'm top-decking (in life) - here's hoping that your vacation let's you re-shuffle your cards, and come back blazing! EVERY DISH NEEDS SALT!
it's so wholesome that DJ said all the power levels offered something good. I don't have a single jank deck, but I know how entertaining they can be for everyone, so they definitely still offer something good
I have a deck named Llanowar Pride Parade Jodah, Archmage Eternal as commander. (Not an elf buuuut all spells cost 🏳️🌈WUBRG 🏳️🌈) A very optimized elf token mana dork engine, favoring more flamboyant card art over outright value a little less important on the high cmc side of the mana curve. (The constant stream of tokens = parade. high cmc flamboyant creatures cast for WUBRG = parades need floats too) A lot of combat tricks, and group hug enchantments/artifacts ( ya’ know, to promote acceptance and love) All beautifully sleeved in these weird off-brand rainbow pearlescent sleeves I found at a GP stand. Sits at a solid 6-7
Ben Williams I actually have an altered grizzly bear in this deck. I had it custom made and it has bondage gear on... it always makes the whole table laugh and usually people will accept the 2 dmg a few times for the “lols” of seeing a pun on the word bear (“bears” are big hairy gay dudes) and just to appreciate the hilarious art.
Sooooooo glad you guys talked about casual and focused! It’s what I think the majority of playgroups play at. GPs and stuff are most likely to be optimized or you will only be successful. All the playgroups of friends playing on Saturday nights play in the casual to low end of optimized in my opinion.
This is such a great video and its name doesnt do it justice. It touches on several other deep pervasive topics that most players don't really think about. Thank you for the amazing insight!
Good stuff. Watching this from jank to optimized decks is basically watching a summary of key insights that allowed me to evolve as a MTG player over the years. I think, what mostly pushes these insights besides logics is the playing environment itself. Only by encountering opponents of at least similar strength can we learn how to take our magic decks to the next level. We usually play with classic 60-card decks, but when I build decks, I like to take fun "janky" ideas as high up the scale of power level as possible. The potential varies from strategy to strategy anyway. I don't like my games to be a search for pieces that will allow me to say: "Ok guys, found those cards, the game is over." It's much more interesting for me to create decks that are very unique, to have a longer game, to have that interaction, but to make decks well-balanced and ultra-compact, so that the synergies between all the cards just overwhelm the opponents in as many situations as possible.
When you made the spiderweb analogy with desecrated tomb and aointed procession, me and my play group call those micro-gears. Micro-gears only work if every tiny gear is connected to 5 or 6 others creating in affect, a web.
Great show. Especially loved the discussion around Phyrexian Arena. Just replaced it with Read the Bones in my Elenda the Dusk Rose deck thanks to this episode.
I've loved jumbo commander for the past year and am really loving him on this show! Once Jimmy takes over as the lead for tom cruise on the mission impossible franchise, we can take comfort knowing this show will go on.
I purposefully keep my decks in between 6-7 just because it's probably where you have the most ability to build whatever you want. It's the most common area where people are actually playing commander
at 26:08, considering Minds Dilation: I run it in my Noyan Dar Roil Shaper deck. It has been very useful for me. I can often steal creatures to help protect my board state, nab a sorcery or instant which will put the 3 counters onto one of my lands. In the certain decks, the Minds Dilation is extra fuel.
This is a great episode. Love JumboCommander guesting, and I appreciated the topic. I have been in the process of trying to move my Alesha deck from a 5 to an 8 because my new meta has so many 9-10 decks running around, if I don't really really optimize it, then I really don't even get to play.
Awesome episode! Re: phyrexian arena discussion: It seems like, much like in economics/finances, cards in hand pay interest? If you have the draw on turn 3 instead of across 3 separate turns, you have earlier access to some of the cards, which themselves might be draw or have effects (like ramp) that pay out over time.
I love praetors council. I actually get to cast it quite often in my games. It is of course in my Multani deck =) Also love Jumob Commander I am glad he is filling in for Jimmy. Great content guys!
I specifically don’t run doubling season in 5c superfriends. It makes the games all about finding ds, then playing a walker with a backbreaking emblem. Without ds games become so much more interesting and political. On another note Kitchen Confidential is such an amazing book, his writing flows in such an elegant yet casual way and I believe he narrated the audiobook version as well. 10/10 recommend.
Simply outstanding content. Truly valuable. Great insights, especially putting deck power levels into context as they relate to playgroups, etc. thank you, both.
I tune down my decks by playing pet cards. It allows me the have fun whatever the situation by getting out cards that normally don't see that much play. Ex: How many Hair-Strung Koto cards have you seen in Darien, King of Kjeldor decks
You guys both seem to have adjusted well to each others presence on the show, this episode was very insightful. Whats up with Jimmy tho is he on vacation or something.
When you guys were talking about rankings the 1-10 I feel that the upper tier should all be their own level. I personally consider 8-10 cEDH, 8 being your entry level, 9 your advanced, and 10 is your combo off turn 3-4 decks. Each almost are like leaps and bounds better than the rest. Me as a non-cEDH guy I generally rate my decks at max being a 7 and most I'd say fall in that 4-5 range. For me I don't mind playing against cEDH decks that are in that entry zone, but I refuse to play against those 9 or 10 power decks. I just don't find getting combo'd out on turn 3-5 fun. Other than that great episode guys, thanks for all the advice.
I play a colorless EDH deck with ulamog as the commander; my play group is probably around the 4-5 power range, I once got helm of the host off and managed to get 4 ulamogs on the battlefield before anyone drew into removal. A fun story for you Josh
Michael Sagi depends on the rest of the deck. How well do you disrupt, how fast can you piece together a win/ solid board. 5 color decks can be among the most powerful or casual.
Jank is what commander is about. It's great playing your competitive deck then some random janky card controls the rest of the game (possibility storm).
I'm actually incredibly sad lately, as my main MTG friends have all started to upgrade their decks far past 'what they need to'. Pouring 80+ dollars into their decks again and again, making optimizations and upgrades when they're already winning 9/10 games played, that sort of thing. I'm a flavor guy, when it comes to DnD, I come up with character traits, ect, and worry about stats later. In MTG, I get a fun idea and then seek out cards to make it (more or less) happen. It used to be a fun time, I have a few decks that are both mechanically sound, as well as flavorfully pleasing, but they are quickly becoming entirely obsolete. I don't want to abandon the heart that went into them.
Might need to take the time to talk to your playgroup and arrange for having some fun flavour games but you also should probably try to match their decks as well so you can compromise and be able to play their way also. That is assuming you want to remain in the same group of course.
We had the same Problem in our Commander Playgroup... we were quickly moving towards CEDH Levels ... So what we did is, we started a Budget Commander Pool. Everyone can suggest 3 Commanders (Card price max. 5€) and then each player gets one Commander at random and has to build a Deck around it (max Deck price 50€ and max single card price 2€) And the not used Commanders stay in the Command Pool, so it grows over time. We do that once in 2 month so its not that costly and everbody has Budget Decks now, which we can also play for fun outside our Budget playrounds.
Fairly new to EDH, and the two decks I have came from Commander's Quarters. They're focused decks according to this scale, so I suppose they're around the 5-7 range. It's great to have that sort of visualization when making decks and playing against others.
So nothing against Jimmy, I've always liked him. But lately it felt like the passion on his side wasn't near Josh's level, which brought Josh's level down indirectly. I understand that doing this every week can be taxing and it's hard to always be excited talking about the same games. DJ being on the show confirms what I felt was happening for the last few months. Him being on the show draws passion out of Josh in a way Jimmy couldn't (atleast lately) and these past two episodes have been nothing short of awesome. But maybe it's just a case of novelty and I'm overthinking this.
I think it's also that they disagree a bit more, and that it naturally leads to them being passionate about the topic as they discuss it with each other. Jimmy and Josh know their standings with each other, so they don't really debate the topics as much. I'm loving DJ on the show.
I think Jimmy is being overwhelmed with work lately, I'm sure after a break and some rest he'll be back to normal soon enough, but this is also a good opportunity for DJ to grow his channel and take the community to new horizons
My Xenagos deck is definitely a focused, not an optimized. It's got at least 10 creatures with cmc 7+, including all three of the new versions of the Eldrazi Titans. I am heavy on ramp to compensate and it usually works. It rarely wins, but it usually kills 2 other players, I win by getting to play more games, because games with him go faster. I know how to take it to optimized, but I really don't want to do that, I like my big Eldrazi and big dragons.
It's my standard deck that I play right now. It's a Sultai Primal Amulet control deck that uses Gaea's Blessing to shuffle in specific answers. It's built toolbox style with 1-of things like maindeck Disposses and Lost Legacy. It's bread and butter is 3 Blessing, 4 Strategic Planning and 4 Vraska's Contempt on a loop. I built it as an answer to meta decks, specifically to be more degenerate than Teferi Control.
Hey guys. First of all I consider myself a above average commander player if I'm honest I would even say I'm a rather good player (not trying to brag here..) And I found it really amazing how I could relate to almost any statement! I had 15 different decks and went down to 5 due to some unfortunate happenings and 4 of these 5 decks would probaply fit in between a 7-9 scale the other being a solid 6-7 and everything you said in this video I was like "Yeah right I remember thinking like that, or I considered that or thought about it in the same way". And since I'm a dominating force at my card shop and in my overall playfield it seems to work out. So what I'm trying to say is you hit the nail on the head with this one. Very good video! You did amazing. Keep it up
I'm okay with either ... but honestly, I have three different abstract geometric bear shirts and I love them all. I really need to get a similar shirt but with an elephant on it!
My decks are probably at about an 8, which is true of my playgroup. We used to have infinite combos, but it didn’t feel cool winning with them, and it semi felt bad losing to them - though no one took it personally or was salty about it. I recommend aiming for 7/8!
I really feel like Cedh is its own entity, and don't agree with having it in the power chart. Makes it appear as though you are saying Cedh is the ultimate goal when powering up your deck and I don't think that is accurate. In a weird way its kinda like comparing standard and modern decks to each other. No matter how powerful a standard deck is it will get smoked by a modern one. I think both have their place and can be enjoyable to play but they just can't be compared to each other in terms of power outside their respected formats. I feel the same way about edh and Cedh decks.
Tuning down a deck of mine is usually taking out land destruction spells, and greater mass removal for more single target removal. Upgrading it usually includes upgrading the mana base, and finding more efficient cards that have a similar trigger ir effect with a lower cost over all. For instance, elesh Norn for the -2/-2 could be swapped out for a languish for the immediate return for a quick win.
With powering up my deck, I will have specific hate cards for the decks I am playing with. I have also cut some staples from my Saskia deck, like Sol Ring or Explosive Vegetation or path to exile in order to increase consistency and speed. You are right when you said they are awful as far as flexibility goes, and that is really important the more powerful your playgroup gets. I absolutely have an optimized playgroup, and a few players play mono color to cut down on the cost of an optimized deck.
That's where Stormtide Leviathan or (on a much slower level) Quicksilver Fountain come into play. Then Thoughtleech, Roots of Life, Vedalken Shackles and Typhoon
Yeah dude! I have one in my elf deck, and it's never bad.... ever.... Even if nobody is in blue at the time, I'm like "heeeey! An easy discard!" And when they are in blue, I've actually had people mana screw THEMSELVES just to not give me the mana. So they either give you mana, or they just screw themselves. Man, what a card!!
i have recently graduated from jank to hover slightly over into casual bordering on focused and the EDH scene in my city is usually closer to the focused to optimized level. but the meta is relatively well known to the point where we're starting to recognize that certain players are going to have more powerful decks and that can lead to ganging up on a player due to the social contract. (and the people who don't like being antagonized simply keep their power levels down to avoid that scenario) but i also know of people who've quit play groups due to them starting to build decks that counter their meta to the point where they're ONLY optimizing their decks against each other. yeah, i'm only 20 mins in but it's really fasciating to listen to this as a player that has felt that "i'm not playing a good enough deck to match the meta" feel. hopefully the ACTUAL ADVICE (when i get to it, lol) will help me if i want to bump it up a bit more. generally i feel it's just good to know where i COULD upgrade even if i wouldn't.
For tuning down the deck i normally just cut the tutors and 2 card combos, so for example my main commander deck is teysa (8ish power level) so just to power it down i cut down like vamp tutor, enlight tutor, steelshaper gift, darkest hour, triskeleton-micky combo etc and just play a value game and 4 card combos for finish (sometimes i put in some taxing effects like aven mindcensor, smokestack, kambal etc to prolong the game). For tuning up the deck what i found out it is not so much the 65-70 card that need too much tuning, maybe switch up 10 cards or so to fast mana, more tutors, lower curve, 2 card instead of 4 card combos, more or less just like you guys said) but i think it is more about the manabase - the less etb tapped lands you have the better and faster your deck will be. However this does have a cost, for example last game i played i lost to my own city of brass dealing me 25dmg throughout the game as my opponent on derevi kept tapping it, untapping and pinging me XD
This totally happened to me when playing one vs one, I was playing an aggro deck and could have won 3 different ways, but I had won 2 times already and wanted to see the other deck perform, I just sat there and did as little damage as possible, but then he played a card that took my next turn and He would see that I could have won because all the cards I had in my hands could have killed him on the spot. This was funny because I never would have imagined that he could steal my turn to kill me with my how cards!!! =)
That thumbnail is absolute gold lol
"Gold": I see what you did there!
Literally came to say the exact same thing.
And this is not even my final form ...
Seriously. LOL'd
That made me laugh! So funny!
I'm surprised this wasn't an hour of Josh screaming MORE CARD DRAW and QUIT PLAYING RED OR WHITE into the microphone until his voice gave out.
Da Shieldmasta He doesn't knock white/red. He knocks the colors/pair for your color identity because the colors lack the full variety of tools you want access to in every deck.
I'll rock mono white
Drifting Abstract Same, but only Sram.
Well, card draw is great
~points to side forehead~ don't need card draw when you can make infinite goblin tokens
"Yeah the Bear Deck is Jank"
Ooooooh friend just you wait until MH. #BearForceOne #IBelieve
Protection from bears cause they famously never went to college how do you like me now like if you get it.
#BEARFORCE1
Now I really want to make a Bear Voltron deck...
My Chainer, Dementia Master Aristocrats deck will deprive the bears of all of their creatures!
DJ is great. I really love how he is always trying to stay positive and rarely outright says that cards or strategies are bad (even when they are). I know that Jimmy and Josh don't hate these weaker strategies or cards, but sometimes it feels a little bit to negative when they talk about them. DJ's positivity is (in my opinion) a great counterpart to Josh's harsh criticism.
I like the criticism. If it's a shit strategy then it's just that; shit.
Honestly I felt like Dj was a bit more negative. Maybe I'm misreading things
@@burcelljc_2306 okooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkokkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
DJ, you are doing a great job as co-host. It's obvious you love talking about Magic and Commander and you always have something insightful to add.
Josh, you seem like you had more fun in this episode than I've seen you have in a while, and it makes the show so much better.
The last few episodes with DJ have been some of the best episodes, in my opinion.
As a deckbuilder of EDH for 10+ years this is one of my favorite episodes of your channel! I am stunned with how good the presentation of divisions of speed / social contract / card value etc... all fits together. Thank you Josh and JumboCommander!!!!! If i could be a patron i would soley based on this video. plz more like it.
Agreed
Note* in Competitive EDH (CEDH) there are no concessions, not even budget. In many play groups, proxies are encouraged so everyone can play to the max power level.
Proxies are a concession
I like that proxy part a lot.. other peoples budget always limited my fun eventually
I like to build decks online and then order the cards after testing.
The problem is that the people I play most are not willing to spend as much as I do.
I hate the pay to win aspect of magic. They should just do what they tried with chronicles
Just reprint dual lands etc with a white border and new logo in a special non standard set
Love that they brought up Stephen Green's chair deck. That thing is so funny
Exactly where I had seen it slipped my mind. Stephen Green definitely deserves credit for that masterpiece.
Jordan Clemens I’m sorry when did he play that? That sounds hilarious
it's been played twice (afaik) on commander vs, stephen green built it but both times justin parnell played it. the first iteration was here: th-cam.com/video/AtG_lLI-VXw/w-d-xo.html and the second was here: th-cam.com/video/s8POTCFJyyE/w-d-xo.html
It might be interesting to look at mana bases from decks in different catagories, I think they're pretty telling:
Competitive will have all the fetches and duals available and play expensive multicolor-lands and utility lands. Optimized would look similar, but maybe shocks instead of duals and less expensive utility lands. When we get to focused I think we don't have fetches anymore, as they are quite expensive, especially when you need shocks as well. I think we won't see filter lands as well. Now we have 2-3 color lands maybe temples/bouncelands and we start seeing more basics. Here we'll probably see medium expensive but fine lands, like check lands and Cycle lands and the battlebondlands. When we get to casual, I think the manabase works but will be slow and the lands are cheap. Bouncelands, Temples, Guildgates, Refuge lands and similar is probably where we're at, and there are more basics.
I think the manabase you build and you can afford will tell a lot about your deck and where to put it on the list, and I think budget restrictions really kick in here.
Anyone wanna just hug DJ? Dude is like a wise friendly bear.
10/10 would hug back
DJ is a pro
Jacob Seibers I feel this
Hello DJ, i also have a 15 Theros Gods Deck, do you have an Decktech or Deckslist for me. my deck is far under the jank level^^
He is awesome, really like his content!
I'm really impressed with how quickly you and DJ have developed your rapport. Excellent episode!
I'm gonna miss jumbo when he leaves lol, I also love jimmy and can't wait for him to come back but hopefully they all begin to regularly work together after this. Command zone and jumbo commander take the cake when it comes to commander content on TH-cam.
I have really enjoyed the episodes with DJ. He and Josh seem to work well together.
Cade Browning I agree, they have different views on the game so the discussion gets richer as soon as they disagree and then agree to disagree.
Good cop bad cop 😁✌️
This was one of my favorite episodes by far. Have only been playing for around a year and a half and am still learning a ton about deck building. Sharing this with my play group! You guys are awesome.
A note on the "phyrexian arena" vs "read the bone" topic, if you played the said card on curve on t3 it doesn't matter how many cards you net the first turn its played if you no longer have the mana to play them, by the second turn it was played you only behind 1 card
Yeah I think that the mana is an important part that they left out. Each turn after you have you played Phyexian Arena you have an extra card AND have all of your mana open to cast spells. Playing read the bones means that you get the cards and you often have to wait a turn to play more than one of them.
Another important thing to consider is black devotion and how in that context, Arena is always the better option.
Yea i play it in Athreos. The devotion is relevant. :D
The other piece of context for the Phyrexian Arena and the Read the Bones debate is cost of drawing a card. The average cost of drawnig a card is 1.5 mana. Read the Bones is on curve for two cards you get some added value because you can scry two which is not card draw but card quality. For actual resources you still only get two cards. Phyrexian Arena has the potential ti be inefficient if it is destroyed earlier but often that does not happen. Once you draw three cards with Arena though your cost to draw a card drops to 1 mana per card and will continue to drop for each card drawn. From the resources spent per card Arena is the better play. I also think the measured 1 card per turn is very efficient when you are drawing a lot of cards as you will be less likely to have to discard any cards.
I could see "read the bone" being much better the Lower the avg cmc in a deck is, because if you play "read the bones" on a turn where you have 5 mana and you don't draw anything low enough to be casted that turn cycle, the next turn you will only be 1 cards ahead of where you would be with the arena ,
But if you draw something with cmc 2 you could play it immediately
Starts at 4:11.
Praise
a winner is you
Thx
Thanks
Ty i always look for this comment.
My first EDH deck was upgraded precon Meren. It's somewhere around "focused" and "optimized," but I found out that when it does work, it just isn't very fun. Spore frogging every turn until I can get in front and my opponents can't keep up with sacrificing their creatures. I started a Sram deck from jank and I have fun every time.
Pink, nervous, and generating bottom vibes like its mana in urza block.
Bears used to be masc and ramp used to have risks. This is what happens when you take away mana burn.
So i had to laugh a bit at the thumbnail of Josh putting his face on Goku going Super Saiyan XD
Man this is a great video! Great discussions Josh and DJ! I didn't even think of some of the things that you talked about, and the comparison to Phyrexian Arena to Read the Bones I think is very interesting! I think this is a great way to go about deck power levels and tuning your decks! I think most of my decks fit in the focused category, but I've been slowly changing my decks over time this year to be more optimized. Time to make some deck changes!
In my decks, I usually carry several options for generals to modify my power level. In my Karador deck, I run Ikra and Tymna as well, and I can swap them with Karador to power down my deck. It doesn't destroy the deck completely, but it powers it down just enough to go from focused to casual, meaning I can play with janky decks or optimised decks and still have a great time.
loved this! I'm usually not much for podcasts, but you guys are enthralling! Extremely interesting, and intelligent. And I love DJ's shirt! Stay frosty!
I would love to see game nights showcasing different levels. Or perhaps a statement on the power levels of the decks being played. I am still trying to figure it out.
So when will DJ be on game knights?
Justin Bowman he probably already was but it is still in editing
I would love to see DJ on Game Knights, though personally id love to see CubeApril on it too.
They probably recorded three years ago but its in the works :-P. But in all seriousness that would be sweet
He was on the most recent one so apparently the answer is "six months"
hopefully never
If path was at $3 I'd be ordering so many.
Seriously. He's usually out of touch with the price of cards though, I guess because he's got a huge collection and isn't buying or checking prices.
He probably just confused it with swords to plowshares
it is like 4,50 - 5 bucks though.
sword is like 0.50-1 buck
was there a reprint in the last 8 month
@@Narabedla4 where are you getting those prices from?
@@derekwalter4238 cardmarket
I came to this video because I've been trying to make a deck featuring Desecrated Tomb for a while now and you literally used it as an example! How crazy is that?! You guys made some really good points in this video, particularly the one about cards that become "distraction" cards in your deck. You might mistake them for synergy, but they actually gimp your deck in some way by either slowing it down, or making it inconsistent. Hopefully I can smooth it out with this advice. Keep up the great analysis.
10/10 thumbnail! 😂👌👍
I think that most of my decks sit around the 6-8 range, and I’ve felt like I’m the “Archenemy” of sorts in some of my Commander games, so I’ve been trying to bring down the power of my decks or, if I don’t want to change the deck, the power of my playing. One of the best ways I’ve found to “tune down” my playing is to have a combo on board but to wait for a turn cycle or two, depending on how the game is going, and give people a chance to notice and/or respond in some sort of way before going off. Great show, guys! Keep up the great work.
I only have the skill level to play janky decks and I am able to keep up with some higher level decks. Though these tips are just what I needed to improve my deck building. Thanks Josh and DJ!
this episode has helped me get in a different mindset when looking at the power of a card.
Wow, DJ is fantastic here! I've followed his Jumbo Commander channel for a good while so it's cool to see him here on The Command Zone and doing such a great job as a co-host. When I saw this video was over an hour-and-a-half I kinda groaned and figured I'd only be able to watch part of it (short attention span here) but I stuck around until the end. Great job, guys!
I love building decks with Jank-level restrictions (like "only River Heralds aligned cards from Ixalan"), but if you know what you're doing you can often tune those to be at LEAST casual, if not focused.
My advice for improving Jank decks are:
* Identify synergies and emphasise them. You may be running only cards that depict characters in chairs, but do a large number of them care about, say, gaining life? Then it might be best to prioritise lifegain cards over others, even if they're slightly weaker in a vacuum.
* Prioritise removal. Removal is almost always going to be the most difficult section to fill in, but it's super important. If you don't have enough removal, you may need to accept some subpar removal spells to fill out the numbers.
* Practice playing your deck. This is important for all decks, but particularly for lower power decks if you want to do well. You need to be weary of what you need in your opening hand, be aware of what how much of your removal covers the current threat and prioritise keeping your scarce removal, and so on.
* Consider your early game. Your deck is slower, so you NEED to make sure you can reach the late game. Removal will play in here too, as getting rid of an early game ender is going to be vital when it comes up.
As for hard mode win conditions, they're nice to have. Most of my decks have one alternate way to win, be it Revel In Riches in pirates, or Forerunner/Polyraptor in dinosaurs, and they can allow you to have a fun win AND give you something to do if your main wincon is shut down somehow.
Ben Sherson honestly this is the primary way I build decks and I think it makes it really hard to assign a scale to most of the decks. But I agree you can differently hit focused with jank styled restrictions.
awesome to see DJ filling in. I love his channel!
Most of my decks are 5's. I hate spending hundreds on a deck, but i do my best to be as synergistic as possible without making my wife mad lol. I also put helm of the host in every deck. Its too much fun, cmc be damned.
My lgs was voted the most competitive lgs in the us. My 4K atraxa walkers combo deck still is only like a 6. I genuinely envy you
Does your wife hate synergy?
I put Godo + Helm in every one of my decks that runs red because my LGS is just full of people playing combo. Every so often, I'll get a win just by turning vampires sideways, or someone running a big-butt dragon deck or slivers will do likewise, but 80% of all the games end in someone generating infinite mana, bouncing every permanent infinitely, teferi lock, curiosity niv mizzet, rings + monolith, non-host helm for 1 + exiled graveyards, tainted remedy + becon, and so on.
dolfo10564 c
I only have one deck that i put time and money into. And thats my sen triplets esper deck.
very happy to see more DJ! always super insightful, really interesting
Great episode, guys! DJ is such pleasure to listen to, and you guys provide a great example of how to argue respectively - rather than just waiting for your turn to speak (or flat out interrupting), listen to the person you have the conflict with, process the perspective they are providing, and respond. And at some point, ya gotta just agree that you are coming at it from different angles. There was a recent guest where this was not the case (ahem), and that episode was nearly unwatchable.
In regards to Jimmy, I'm hoping some time away does him some good, as he hasn't seemed happy for a while (although there is so much that goes on outside the show and behind the scenes, it's impossible to have the correct perspective from out here). It's something I've wondered about for several episodes now, and the joy and passion I felt in this episode confirmed it. Who knows... but as a fellow red mage, I hate it when I'm out of gas and it feels like I'm top-decking (in life) - here's hoping that your vacation let's you re-shuffle your cards, and come back blazing! EVERY DISH NEEDS SALT!
We need DJ on a classic commander game knights
it's so wholesome that DJ said all the power levels offered something good. I don't have a single jank deck, but I know how entertaining they can be for everyone, so they definitely still offer something good
DJ's shirt makes me wish WUBRG bears was a thing
You realize that sounds like rainbow bears, or care bears. If your confident you won't get laughed at casting them go right ahead lol
I have a deck named Llanowar Pride Parade
Jodah, Archmage Eternal as commander. (Not an elf buuuut all spells cost 🏳️🌈WUBRG 🏳️🌈)
A very optimized elf token mana dork engine, favoring more flamboyant card art over outright value a little less important on the high cmc side of the mana curve. (The constant stream of tokens = parade. high cmc flamboyant creatures cast for WUBRG = parades need floats too)
A lot of combat tricks, and group hug enchantments/artifacts ( ya’ know, to promote acceptance and love)
All beautifully sleeved in these weird off-brand rainbow pearlescent sleeves I found at a GP stand. Sits at a solid 6-7
mike long never had a chance to bring this deck up so thanks for that lol
Ben Williams I actually have an altered grizzly bear in this deck. I had it custom made and it has bondage gear on... it always makes the whole table laugh and usually people will accept the 2 dmg a few times for the “lols” of seeing a pun on the word bear (“bears” are big hairy gay dudes) and just to appreciate the hilarious art.
Now morophon is a thing, although I realize it wasn't when you posted this comment👍🏼
Sooooooo glad you guys talked about casual and focused! It’s what I think the majority of playgroups play at. GPs and stuff are most likely to be optimized or you will only be successful. All the playgroups of friends playing on Saturday nights play in the casual to low end of optimized in my opinion.
Best show in 12 months... Maybe ever.
This is such a great video and its name doesnt do it justice. It touches on several other deep pervasive topics that most players don't really think about. Thank you for the amazing insight!
Great to see Jumbo Commander :)
KeiruKeiru 1 v.
I've been trying to make my casual deck more focused and this was really helpful. thank you Command zone and Jumbo commander
Love seeing DJ on the pod!
Good stuff. Watching this from jank to optimized decks is basically watching a summary of key insights that allowed me to evolve as a MTG player over the years. I think, what mostly pushes these insights besides logics is the playing environment itself. Only by encountering opponents of at least similar strength can we learn how to take our magic decks to the next level.
We usually play with classic 60-card decks, but when I build decks, I like to take fun "janky" ideas as high up the scale of power level as possible. The potential varies from strategy to strategy anyway. I don't like my games to be a search for pieces that will allow me to say: "Ok guys, found those cards, the game is over." It's much more interesting for me to create decks that are very unique, to have a longer game, to have that interaction, but to make decks well-balanced and ultra-compact, so that the synergies between all the cards just overwhelm the opponents in as many situations as possible.
Best way to tune a deck down is make it boros.
Grixis is the best because of Kess. Kess doesnt need to even be on the battlefield for my deck to kick everyone's ass
I wish I had a Sultai commander because I also like graveyard synergies
Boros angels is really strong the only time ive seen the angels at my shop lose was to that one guy running bloodmoon in edh.
Michael Mulloy then feather came out
@@knightfromlordran in the future you will have a few
I was expecting at least an hour of screaming/yelling powering-up based on the thumbnail
5/10
Find out next time, on Commander Zone Z!
When you made the spiderweb analogy with desecrated tomb and aointed procession, me and my play group call those micro-gears. Micro-gears only work if every tiny gear is connected to 5 or 6 others creating in affect, a web.
"You have entered the jumbo commander zone!"
Great show. Especially loved the discussion around Phyrexian Arena. Just replaced it with Read the Bones in my Elenda the Dusk Rose deck thanks to this episode.
The participation of jumbocommander is great. Kudos guys!
I've loved jumbo commander for the past year and am really loving him on this show! Once Jimmy takes over as the lead for tom cruise on the mission impossible franchise, we can take comfort knowing this show will go on.
Actually glad DJ substitute Jimmy I love the guy and his channel 👌🏻
Best podcast ever! Keep it up guys! We listen everyday (years worth to catch up on)
I purposefully keep my decks in between 6-7 just because it's probably where you have the most ability to build whatever you want. It's the most common area where people are actually playing commander
at 26:08, considering Minds Dilation: I run it in my Noyan Dar Roil Shaper deck. It has been very useful for me. I can often steal creatures to help protect my board state, nab a sorcery or instant which will put the 3 counters onto one of my lands. In the certain decks, the Minds Dilation is extra fuel.
I can't wait for the next line of relic tokens, i want my SAPROLINGS!
Yes please!
Joshua Nelson I need eldrazi scions
This is a great episode. Love JumboCommander guesting, and I appreciated the topic. I have been in the process of trying to move my Alesha deck from a 5 to an 8 because my new meta has so many 9-10 decks running around, if I don't really really optimize it, then I really don't even get to play.
Y’all need to get DJ onto Game Knights!
Awesome episode! Re: phyrexian arena discussion: It seems like, much like in economics/finances, cards in hand pay interest? If you have the draw on turn 3 instead of across 3 separate turns, you have earlier access to some of the cards, which themselves might be draw or have effects (like ramp) that pay out over time.
It's not like I don't miss Jimmy, but it's awesome seeing DJ on here again!
I love praetors council. I actually get to cast it quite often in my games. It is of course in my Multani deck =)
Also love Jumob Commander I am glad he is filling in for Jimmy. Great content guys!
I specifically don’t run doubling season in 5c superfriends. It makes the games all about finding ds, then playing a walker with a backbreaking emblem. Without ds games become so much more interesting and political.
On another note Kitchen Confidential is such an amazing book, his writing flows in such an elegant yet casual way and I believe he narrated the audiobook version as well. 10/10 recommend.
Simply outstanding content. Truly valuable. Great insights, especially putting deck power levels into context as they relate to playgroups, etc. thank you, both.
If you have DJ in Game Knights I would love it. The thing is which one would he choose😂
I tune down my decks by playing pet cards.
It allows me the have fun whatever the situation by getting out cards that normally don't see that much play.
Ex: How many Hair-Strung Koto cards have you seen in Darien, King of Kjeldor decks
You guys both seem to have adjusted well to each others presence on the show, this episode was very insightful.
Whats up with Jimmy tho is he on vacation or something.
I am new to Commander and this video helped me understand so much more than deck optimizing. Thanks very much!
Helm of the Host on Azor the Lawbringer. Seems so funny.
The most deck building theory in one video possible. Thank you dudes!
When you guys were talking about rankings the 1-10 I feel that the upper tier should all be their own level. I personally consider 8-10 cEDH, 8 being your entry level, 9 your advanced, and 10 is your combo off turn 3-4 decks. Each almost are like leaps and bounds better than the rest. Me as a non-cEDH guy I generally rate my decks at max being a 7 and most I'd say fall in that 4-5 range. For me I don't mind playing against cEDH decks that are in that entry zone, but I refuse to play against those 9 or 10 power decks. I just don't find getting combo'd out on turn 3-5 fun. Other than that great episode guys, thanks for all the advice.
Dj is back! Love having a new look on things and seeing Dj becoming more comfortable.
jumbo is such an amazing co-host
I play a colorless EDH deck with ulamog as the commander; my play group is probably around the 4-5 power range, I once got helm of the host off and managed to get 4 ulamogs on the battlefield before anyone drew into removal.
A fun story for you Josh
Does progenitus Maze's end counts as jank?
Michael Sagi depends on the rest of the deck. How well do you disrupt, how fast can you piece together a win/ solid board. 5 color decks can be among the most powerful or casual.
Tyler Gehring thanks I do need more disruption
Naw 11/10 needs ban
This proved te be insightful. I thought my deck was focused/optimised, but it's clear now it was casual. moving it into focused now.
Jank is what commander is about. It's great playing your competitive deck then some random janky card controls the rest of the game (possibility storm).
Probably my new favorite episode. Love the idea of creating an environment to allow a “good” card to rise above its text.
I'm actually incredibly sad lately, as my main MTG friends have all started to upgrade their decks far past 'what they need to'. Pouring 80+ dollars into their decks again and again, making optimizations and upgrades when they're already winning 9/10 games played, that sort of thing.
I'm a flavor guy, when it comes to DnD, I come up with character traits, ect, and worry about stats later. In MTG, I get a fun idea and then seek out cards to make it (more or less) happen.
It used to be a fun time, I have a few decks that are both mechanically sound, as well as flavorfully pleasing, but they are quickly becoming entirely obsolete. I don't want to abandon the heart that went into them.
Might need to take the time to talk to your playgroup and arrange for having some fun flavour games but you also should probably try to match their decks as well so you can compromise and be able to play their way also. That is assuming you want to remain in the same group of course.
We had the same Problem in our Commander Playgroup... we were quickly moving towards CEDH Levels ...
So what we did is, we started a Budget Commander Pool.
Everyone can suggest 3 Commanders (Card price max. 5€) and then each player gets one Commander at random and has to build a Deck around it (max Deck price 50€ and max single card price 2€)
And the not used Commanders stay in the Command Pool, so it grows over time.
We do that once in 2 month so its not that costly and everbody has Budget Decks now, which we can also play for fun outside our Budget playrounds.
@@shishamarux.2665 actually very cool idea!
Fairly new to EDH, and the two decks I have came from Commander's Quarters. They're focused decks according to this scale, so I suppose they're around the 5-7 range. It's great to have that sort of visualization when making decks and playing against others.
So nothing against Jimmy, I've always liked him. But lately it felt like the passion on his side wasn't near Josh's level, which brought Josh's level down indirectly. I understand that doing this every week can be taxing and it's hard to always be excited talking about the same games. DJ being on the show confirms what I felt was happening for the last few months. Him being on the show draws passion out of Josh in a way Jimmy couldn't (atleast lately) and these past two episodes have been nothing short of awesome. But maybe it's just a case of novelty and I'm overthinking this.
Imnospy I agree
But if you look like 100 episodes ago it was different. I'm sure some time to relax will be good.
I think it's also that they disagree a bit more, and that it naturally leads to them being passionate about the topic as they discuss it with each other. Jimmy and Josh know their standings with each other, so they don't really debate the topics as much.
I'm loving DJ on the show.
I think Jimmy is being overwhelmed with work lately, I'm sure after a break and some rest he'll be back to normal soon enough, but this is also a good opportunity for DJ to grow his channel and take the community to new horizons
yeah I think so too, hope he comes back, gotta love Jimmy
I also agree. I’ve been wanting to say this.
My Xenagos deck is definitely a focused, not an optimized. It's got at least 10 creatures with cmc 7+, including all three of the new versions of the Eldrazi Titans. I am heavy on ramp to compensate and it usually works. It rarely wins, but it usually kills 2 other players, I win by getting to play more games, because games with him go faster. I know how to take it to optimized, but I really don't want to do that, I like my big Eldrazi and big dragons.
My Gaea's Blessing deck wants this to be popular.
I have no idea how my comment got on this video...
now im curious what a gaea's blessing deck is
It's my standard deck that I play right now. It's a Sultai Primal Amulet control deck that uses Gaea's Blessing to shuffle in specific answers. It's built toolbox style with 1-of things like maindeck Disposses and Lost Legacy. It's bread and butter is 3 Blessing, 4 Strategic Planning and 4 Vraska's Contempt on a loop. I built it as an answer to meta decks, specifically to be more degenerate than Teferi Control.
*Thelona Now I'm really interested in the decklist. Does it play well?
Yeah it plays really fluid. I can post my Magic Arena export list for you, since that's where I have it. Mana base not finished because Arena, but you'll get the idea. It's especially well positioned now that M19 has folks playing mill again.
6 Swamp (RIX) 194
3 Fatal Push (AER) 57
3 Cast Down (DAR) 81
3 Doomfall (HOU) 62
1 Lost Legacy (KLD) 88
4 Vraska's Contempt (XLN) 129
1 Yahenni's Expertise (AER) 75
3 Gaea's Blessing (DAR) 161
1 Forest (RIX) 196
2 Island (RIX) 193
1 Blink of an Eye (DAR) 46
4 Strategic Planning (HOU) 47
2 Ipnu Rivulet (HOU) 180
2 Ifnir Deadlands (HOU) 179
1 Botanical Sanctum (KLD) 244
1 Fetid Pools (AKH) 243
2 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248
1 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
1 Field of Ruin (XLN) 254
1 Arch of Orazca (RIX) 185
1 Search for Azcanta (XLN) 74
1 Glimmer of Genius (KLD) 49
3 Aether Hub (KLD) 242
2 Thaumatic Compass (XLN) 249
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning (HOU) 60
1 Drowned Catacomb (XLN) 253
2 Duress (XLN) 105
1 Scavenger Grounds (HOU) 182
1 Battle at the Bridge (AER) 53
1 Mastermind's Acquisition (RIX) 77
2 Divination (DAR) 52
1 Dynavolt Tower (KLD) 208
Sideboard
2 Duress (XLN) 105
4 Negate (RIX) 44
2 Carnage Tyrant (XLN) 179
2 Naturalize (RIX) 139
1 The Scarab God (HOU) 145
1 Fatal Push (AER) 57
1 Doomfall (HOU) 62
1 Torment of Hailfire (HOU) 77
1 Dispossess (AKH) 86
Hey guys.
First of all I consider myself a above average commander player if I'm honest I would even say I'm a rather good player (not trying to brag here..)
And I found it really amazing how I could relate to almost any statement!
I had 15 different decks and went down to 5 due to some unfortunate happenings and 4 of these 5 decks would probaply fit in between a 7-9 scale the other being a solid 6-7 and everything you said in this video I was like "Yeah right I remember thinking like that, or I considered that or thought about it in the same way". And since I'm a dominating force at my card shop and in my overall playfield it seems to work out.
So what I'm trying to say is you hit the nail on the head with this one.
Very good video! You did amazing.
Keep it up
Ok this is my gay mind talking but Jumbo’s shirt is really telling me “I’m a gay bear” but it also might mean “I’m from California and I like colors”
Kodo Elder-Groebe I feel this. I mean it is gay wrath month
I'm okay with either ... but honestly, I have three different abstract geometric bear shirts and I love them all. I really need to get a similar shirt but with an elephant on it!
Jumbo Commander As a gay guy from CA, I think it rocks either way! And your channel is great!
Such a tease! I was just thinking last video about how much I wanted you to be gay, but didn't think it probable. You're just so dang cute!!
I had to go back and look at his shirt......but to the point I don't know but he was entertaining enough to not matter.
My decks are probably at about an 8, which is true of my playgroup. We used to have infinite combos, but it didn’t feel cool winning with them, and it semi felt bad losing to them - though no one took it personally or was salty about it. I recommend aiming for 7/8!
I really feel like Cedh is its own entity, and don't agree with having it in the power chart. Makes it appear as though you are saying Cedh is the ultimate goal when powering up your deck and I don't think that is accurate. In a weird way its kinda like comparing standard and modern decks to each other. No matter how powerful a standard deck is it will get smoked by a modern one. I think both have their place and can be enjoyable to play but they just can't be compared to each other in terms of power outside their respected formats. I feel the same way about edh and Cedh decks.
Tuning down a deck of mine is usually taking out land destruction spells, and greater mass removal for more single target removal.
Upgrading it usually includes upgrading the mana base, and finding more efficient cards that have a similar trigger ir effect with a lower cost over all. For instance, elesh Norn for the -2/-2 could be swapped out for a languish for the immediate return for a quick win.
Y'all better do a game knights with all the Elder Dragons!!!
With powering up my deck, I will have specific hate cards for the decks I am playing with. I have also cut some staples from my Saskia deck, like Sol Ring or Explosive Vegetation or path to exile in order to increase consistency and speed. You are right when you said they are awful as far as flexibility goes, and that is really important the more powerful your playgroup gets. I absolutely have an optimized playgroup, and a few players play mono color to cut down on the cost of an optimized deck.
Carpet of flowers is stupid good. Believe jumbo.
You know what's up! It is SO GOOD. Even when I happen to draw it when no one plays islands I'm not even upset THAT'S HOW GOOD IT IS.
That's where Stormtide Leviathan or (on a much slower level) Quicksilver Fountain come into play.
Then Thoughtleech, Roots of Life, Vedalken Shackles and Typhoon
I will gladly play a dead card if that means I don't have to worry about any blue interaction. Win-Win.
Yeah dude! I have one in my elf deck, and it's never bad.... ever.... Even if nobody is in blue at the time, I'm like "heeeey! An easy discard!"
And when they are in blue, I've actually had people mana screw THEMSELVES just to not give me the mana. So they either give you mana, or they just screw themselves. Man, what a card!!
i have recently graduated from jank to hover slightly over into casual bordering on focused and the EDH scene in my city is usually closer to the focused to optimized level. but the meta is relatively well known to the point where we're starting to recognize that certain players are going to have more powerful decks and that can lead to ganging up on a player due to the social contract. (and the people who don't like being antagonized simply keep their power levels down to avoid that scenario)
but i also know of people who've quit play groups due to them starting to build decks that counter their meta to the point where they're ONLY optimizing their decks against each other.
yeah, i'm only 20 mins in but it's really fasciating to listen to this as a player that has felt that "i'm not playing a good enough deck to match the meta" feel. hopefully the ACTUAL ADVICE (when i get to it, lol) will help me if i want to bump it up a bit more.
generally i feel it's just good to know where i COULD upgrade even if i wouldn't.
I’m already running all the OG Moxen, hopefully this will help power up my EDH Decks more.
Andrew Woodford is this supposed to be funny?
Shawn Diaz I suppose so
What's crazy is that sol ring kinda hangs out in that powerlevel.
Jumbo Commander Most definitely! Sol Ring then Fellwar Stone into a Turn 2 Serra Angel is insane in Old School (93/94).
I like how you line up the Jank-Competitive levels with 1-10. That's very helpful.
"You should only have 4 cards with cmc 7 or more" looks at my Jodah eldrazi tribal deck that has 23 7 cmc or greater cards...."Oh boi"
Haha thats sick!!
@@ScantraXX2 thanks haha
For tuning down the deck i normally just cut the tutors and 2 card combos, so for example my main commander deck is teysa (8ish power level) so just to power it down i cut down like vamp tutor, enlight tutor, steelshaper gift, darkest hour, triskeleton-micky combo etc and just play a value game and 4 card combos for finish (sometimes i put in some taxing effects like aven mindcensor, smokestack, kambal etc to prolong the game).
For tuning up the deck what i found out it is not so much the 65-70 card that need too much tuning, maybe switch up 10 cards or so to fast mana, more tutors, lower curve, 2 card instead of 4 card combos, more or less just like you guys said) but i think it is more about the manabase - the less etb tapped lands you have the better and faster your deck will be. However this does have a cost, for example last game i played i lost to my own city of brass dealing me 25dmg throughout the game as my opponent on derevi kept tapping it, untapping and pinging me XD
Still lovin on DJ
I really love DJ's voice, it is most soothing 😍
This totally happened to me when playing one vs one, I was playing an aggro deck and could have won 3 different ways, but I had won 2 times already and wanted to see the other deck perform, I just sat there and did as little damage as possible, but then he played a card that took my next turn and He would see that I could have won because all the cards I had in my hands could have killed him on the spot. This was funny because I never would have imagined that he could steal my turn to kill me with my how cards!!! =)