You two are great together as presenters! I enjoy watching and learning from your detailed analysis. Great job guys! Would like to also see Jordan do a standing backflip🙂
These two are the "A" team for presenting. Great chemistry, they compliment each other and it is apparent you get along. One other thing, Rivian is definitely over engineered. anyone who got the first generation has a vehicle probably worth twice if not 3 times what you paid for.
Wonderful channel, and I’m certainly no mechanical engineer. Munro is so smart to employ such hugely well-educated and articulate young people. One does wonder how the USA can produce people of this high calibre at the same time as the USA has such enormous societal problems. So it is encouraging to see, from outside, that parts of the Nation work so extremely well. Good luck to the USA!
I didn't like Jordan when he started with the fridge, but he has grown a ton, and the dynamic with Scott is excellent. I really enjoy their videos, great job!
I'm not a mechanic, do fiddle with my truck sometimes but mostly craft/maker stuff and always enjoy learning about systems and production components and processes.
Yep, they appear largely symmetrical other than the pivot nut. Does the bolt have a shoulder so the two holes sizes are the same? Fully symmetrical? Or a common casting to be machined?
My thoughts are that the reason they have two compressors is that the one used for the air suspension might not be rated for high duty cycle. And that if somebody was using the air compressor for extended periods or just using the air facility a lot. The service life of that compressor could be exceeded in a short amount of time. The cheaper compressor may actually be lower volume and rated for higher duty cycle.
The rear LCAs are machined on both sides because they are the same part, just flipped for the other side, so it makes sense to be machined on two sides
air tanks have moisture and corrode over time I would want that to be a replaceable part and not part of the main structure. some times i really think there ideas are making something faster and cheaper to built but its also a cheaper product with possible long term problems.
Those front struts are a joint effort: the upper air spring part is from "United Kingdom" (1:46) and the damper section (Monroe-branded) from Poland. And about the 11th-hour aux air compressor: neither it nor the main suspension one are actively cooled, so if there were only one compressor, that leaves the possibility of the main one getting cooked from, say, pumping up a huge innertube at the lake, that would leave the truck dead in the water so to speak. So having the aux one is insurance against the bad "optics" of a Rivian on a tow truck...
Our Czech Tatra trucks have had the pneumatic suspension since I was a boy - at least 50 years. Also their rear wheels were always on half-axle driven from the central column, so they were roding on their outer wheel rims when unloaded. But sometimes since 1980+ uears they added that pneumatic suspension to those rear wheels so when the truck was empty, the air pressure cushion got lowered and this this old funny setup was fixed and imho is better system than other trucks in general.
Are the lower control arms and struts the same part numbers? Is it possible those additional machined perches are there so the part can be used on either side?
Great video, I like to give a suggestion as well, it would be nice while you are speaking about the different parts also share where they are made and who have made them, (as some of them can be discovered from the stickers on them even in this video).
I believe it was about 30 or 40 years ago that GM/Chevrolet gasoline powered medium duty trucks went to the AutoPark Brake System powered by an electric motor to replace the parking pawl in the transmission. You saw these in the P-Series Van Chassis used by delivery companies (UPS, FedX, Bakeries, Fritos, SnapOnTools, etc, etc), Ambulances and Motor Homes. Transmissions without a parking pawl are not a new thing that just recently came about due to electrification and have been widely used in many vehicles providing for our daily needs and emergency services using automatically activated electric parking brakes with no parking pawl in the transmission on the road in the US for almost four decades now.
I didn't know that medium-duty trucks had already gone this way - thanks! After quick web search it appears that this system was used when GM 4L80E were used on trucks too heavy for that transmission's parking pawl, and with transmissions that didn't have parking pawls (e.g. Allison 2100). At least some (probably all) of these systems use a dedicated drum brake on the transmission output shaft, not parking brakes at the wheels.
@@brianb-p6586 That single brake drum on the drive shaft was a problem unless the rear differential was a fully locked differential since with a regular unlocked differential all you needed was for one rear wheel to loose traction and then you'd have no more parking brake. The automatic system that securely sets both rear brakes is a huge improvement over the early systems or even the parking pawl. No danger of dropping the drive shaft trying to engage the new system when the vehicle is moving.
@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 I appreciate the advantage of parking brakes on individual wheels, but my motorhome (on a 2008 Ford F53 chassis) has just a drum brake on the driveshaft as a parking brake (operated by a typical foot pedal), in combination with a transmission parking pawl (in the 4R100 automatic transmission). This is not uncommon, or unique to automatic transmission vehicles without a parking pawl. In the case of the F53, the driveshaft-mounted drum is used because the fixed-caliper disk brakes on the rear axle do not include a parking function, and Ford (or Dana) chose not to add separate parking calipers. It works for us, so far. The driveshaft-mounted parking brake should not be capable of exerting enough torque to damage the driveshaft.
@@brianb-p6586 Automatically or rather Manually Activated and Electrically Applied in an emergency situation such as with loss of hydraulic brakes at speed the old autopark system (which the older F53 did not have) has been noted as too aggressive since it cannot really be modulated like a foot or hand operated brake so its either full on or completely off. It can lead to loss of directional stability and can result in dropping the driveshaft especially on a high mileage vehicle or an older unit run in the Salt Belt. I have maintained and owned both P-30 and F-53 along with GM and Ford Super Duty trucks. Had one driver go over the guardrail when the driveshaft tube failed and dug into the pavement flipping the truck over and down into a swamp however thankfully he just got a few scrapes and bruises. That failure was on a truck that was less than a year old. On the disc brakes not having a park brake function, thats at the discretion of the chassis builder since you can stack a drum with the disc or have a secondary caliper such as the 120 series Wildwood mechanical parking brake calipers or get a caliper with a cam lever or other actuator on it (cam lever option has been available since at least the 1960's) to provide park/emergency braking.
Great job. My thoughts..is it possible the rear lower arm is a single forging designed to be used on both sides of the vehicle? The 2 arms zip tied together look symmetrical…if so, that would explain the pad and extra machined surface and holes that are not being used. On the accumulator, I do agree with the concept of combining it with something that is preexisting, just not sure the rear subframe is the best idea. Tank failures are obviously pretty rare, but if a tank DID fail, not only would it mean replacement of the entire rear subframe, but it could possibly represent a structural integrity issue on such a highly loaded component.
I disagree about integrating the tank into the cradle. If the tank ever has a leak or stripped fittings, gets a dented crack, etc. and needs to be replaced for some reason-- now you would have to replace the entire cradle; not good. What Tesla did makes a lot more sense because it's still a smaller part, and yet it's serving multiple functions, and still easily replaceable. It's not good to integrate things that may need to be renewed later-- and all pressure vessels have a shelf life. I do like the idea of integrating things and getting more than one use of whatever you can; and also with Tesla leading the way with the large body castings-- great stuff. But you have to draw a line between the bulk structure items and consumable accessories. For example, you wouldn't want to integrate the alternator and starter into the block of an engine -- I'm sure you could do it, but it's just not a great idea. Some things are best left isolated and easily removable/ replaceable.
6:50 The aux air compressor looks like an 11th hour bail out. I'd guess they started with one pump and an integral distribution block with regulator for the utility air. I'm guessing the operating parameters of the suspension air and the utility air are disparate and they encountered a deal breaker forcing them to resort to that aux pump. Hopefully R1.1 has a heat pump, one air pump, bigger frunk, bigger thermal management capacity, dynamic aero (a chin splitter at the front could drop down 4+ inches to greatly improve aero and complete redesign of the 2nd row seat (R1T and R1S) along with obviously the 180kWh+ "Max Pack" battery bringing hopefully much better charge curve and better battery efficiency.)
In 2022, at what point does giving away some material make up for the additional design, manufacturing, shipping, storing, inventorying, assembly costs for a separate part number? If Rivian incorporates the air tank into the cradle, wouldn’t it cheaper long-term to give it away even if it’s not optioned?
Not just heavy.. fast as hell. The Rivians with 4 wheel motors are sports car fast acceleration.. not much on the top end.. limited to like 116 mph or something.. but very fast acceleration around 3.5 secs 0-60. That kind of acceleration should be coupled to performance braking for those.. oh shit, moments.
@@carholic-sz3qv lol.. i assume you mean the Plaid’s brakes. The standard brakes are adequate for probably the majority of owners who will never track the car and never approach top speeds. Certainly not repeatedly. Anyone who wants to do that, would be wise to go buy the carbon ceramic kit Tesla sells, or one of the aftermarket brands. Though I do agree, Tesla should have made the standard brakes a bit beefier for one of the quickest and fastest machine’s on the planet. But it’s not that hard to upgrade them if you got the cash and want better.
@@airheart1 nonsense!!!! Stop justifying shit!!! Who actually buys a 1000hp car to drive like a grandma!? Also no one needs to reach the top speeds! It’s all about enjoying the car a lot more. There is a reason why even standard Porsche or even Mercedes’ brakes are much better than the plaid standard ones.
My Model S has two rear calipers per wheel. I’m guessing one is a separate parking brake, but why not just use the main caliper as a parking brake? I suppose for redundancy? But what was the reasoning or calculation that got to that determination?
The system which uses the service (main) caliper for parking only works with sliding calipers. The Rivian has sliding calipers in the rear, so it can use them for the parking function; however, your Model S has fixed-body calipers, which won't work for parking so it has separate parking calipers (which are the sliding type). Later Model S rear brakes are sliding calipers, just like the Rivian.
Thanks Jordan and Scott! If something brakes on a Rivian, it seems you need your bank account to be able to take the hit! I think Rivian needs to simplify to have bigger earnings...
Nonsense!!!! It seams actually super easy with much less integrated parts compared to tesla lol….. I bet you can very easy fit an aftermarket air pump or even reservoir or even suspensions on the rivian compared to tesla
Air and moisture do not go together well! Hopefully these air suspension systems have a safe guard against it or there will be future problems the owner will have to deal with.
I'm pretty sure Elon already mentioned that the Tesla Cybtertruck will use the same compressor for their air suspension for their accessory air line as well. So I hope more little changes like that will make the Cybtertruck better from a manufacturing standpoint than the Rivian.
Lol…… air suspensions are expensive to repair and also for bad roads it’s not the air suspensions won’t last very long that’s why leaf springs are still so popular
@@carholic-sz3qv so how many of those trucks will tow in a bad enough road that air suspension can't cope with it. And if air is so bad at towing why almost all new semi trucks come whit air suspension. Or then European roads are just that much better that getting air suspension is no brainer.
Your engineer doesn’t know what he is talking about. He mentioned the low quality mass produced air compressor. It even says assembled in Australia, how does he not know that it is most likely and ARB unit which happens to be one of the most common best air compressors on the market. Learn you stuff.
"A little unique" ... "somewhat unique" Could be worth looking for some other descriptions! After all something is either unique or it's not. "Unusual" or "less common" would do the job.
What do y'all think about Sandy's suggestion that EVs with regen braking could go back to drum brakes? Money and weight savings for what are essentially emergency brakes, only called upon in rare situations.
It's not all that rare to require mechanical braking. An EV starting out with a full charge will have essentially zero regen available and will need all of the mechanical braking system under those conditions. Since EVs tend to be heavier than their gas counterparts, they will need superior braking for those times that regen isn't available or emergency situations.
It has always been technically and legally feasible to use the parking brake only, with no parking pawl in the transmission. Every manual-transmission car does this, but here are two problems. First, an EV's motor doesn't usefully resist turning when the power is off, unlike an engine coupled through a manual transmission, so the parking brake by itself may be considered ineffective; the motor-applied parking brake doesn't change that. Secondly, drivers are careless idiots, and so with automatic transmission the parking pawl was used in conjunction with a shift selector that encouraged drivers to use it rather than just stopping in Neutral or Drive; without a parking pawl the parking brake application needs to be automatic to enable idiots to drive, and so the parking brake needs a motor.
Munro people should stick to describing the parts and explaining the associated production processes and costs, and not try to explain anything about automotive performance. The suspension discussion was truly cringe-worthy.
@@carholic-sz3qv The tesla plaid has the same front brakes. Grow up?? Seriously? You realize the regen is inversely proportional to the RPM of the wheels. Aka the Faster the speed the stronger the regen.
That accessory air compressor looks exactly like the ARB compressor I bought specifically for pumping up tires on my 4x4 after they've been aired down for sand driving. ARB is Australian, like the part you showed.
Regarding the redundant machining on the Lower Control Arms: Are they maybe Mirrored (or are otherwise mostly the same)? so they have the same Part for both Left and Right, and the side where it goes is decided in a diffrent step where this blue Nut is added? Still Savings potential there, but this would allow for some more flexibility
I would worry about the security the electric parking brake can provide in the Rivian compared to a mechanical one on other vehicles in offroad environments. It is common knowledge you park with your rig locked into 4WD when parking on steep offroad areas. This allows all four wheels to participate via the drivetrain in keeping the vehicle from moving. Seems the Rivian would only use the back wheels, given the greater weight of the Rivian, it might slide down a hill dragging the back wheels the whole way. I've seen it happen to Jeeps that were parked in 2H, it can and will happen with the Rivian. Would be nice if that motorized park brake was on all four wheels. Maybe this is a change that can be put into a future model of theirs.
I think we need to push this vid to everyone. I would surely enjoy to watch that back flip.These tear downs and detailed videos are great. Keep up the fantastic work.
Use the same compressor for suspension and for air inflation? Yes - VW in 2004+ with the Touareg. However, if you want to use the compressor a lot, having a separate air compressor that is not critical to vehicle functionality is a nice idea.
I think Tesla should have updated the Citroen hydraulic suspension system. With two electric pumps there would be no need for a hydraulic accumulator. It could power suspension, brakes, steering and even give a basic active suspension.
I thinking about how will the air system will hold up over time Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz (esp the oil-powered system) are very expensive and notorious for breaking with different kits available to fully strip it out and replace it with more common components and designs.
I suspect Tesla might do a better job of engineering the air suspension components to last very long given that they are trying to build a reputation whereas Mercedes-Benz and range Rover have a bunch of captive snobby clients. Off-road presents some challenges with potential for very dusty environment but is that really why they have had problems? I hope the cybertruck has an air suspension standard.
@@glike2 cyber has to.. from all the kneeling they showed it doing. I don’t think they’d make different version of suspension for different trims. Unlikely anyway
@@airheart1 lol…… hydraulic suspensions are much more quicker to response and smoothen the driving of the vehicle, Toyota has had hydraulic suspensions for over a decade now it’s called KDSS.
So to see Jordan do a standing back flip, I'll re-watch this video a few times!
the thing is what do you follow it up with...
#thebackflip
Jordan and Scott - your engineering analyses are spectacular. Thank you.
You two are great together as presenters! I enjoy watching and learning from your detailed analysis. Great job guys! Would like to also see Jordan do a standing backflip🙂
These two are the "A" team for presenting. Great chemistry, they compliment each other and it is apparent you get along.
One other thing, Rivian is definitely over engineered. anyone who got the first generation has a vehicle probably worth twice if not 3 times what you paid for.
I agree over-engineered is the right word, they don't get the value of 3 times what they paid for but Rivian spent more than they paid for for sure.
man you guys make your jobs look fun! and a standing backflip in dress clothes is always impressive, look forward to seeing it one day!
Wonderful channel, and I’m certainly no mechanical engineer. Munro is so smart to employ such hugely well-educated and articulate young people. One does wonder how the USA can produce people of this high calibre at the same time as the USA has such enormous societal problems. So it is encouraging to see, from outside, that parts of the Nation work so extremely well. Good luck to the USA!
They hire well-educated and articulate old people too!
Knowledgeable Boss (management) hires top line experts......
Reminds me of another company🤔.
Nerdgasm worthy deliveries, both! Excellent, elegant, enthusiastic, concise and succinct oration. The epitome of engineering ‘show & tell.’
I didn't like Jordan when he started with the fridge, but he has grown a ton, and the dynamic with Scott is excellent. I really enjoy their videos, great job!
The rear lower suspension arms look like they are the same part, left and right...this explains the unused threads on opposite sides
I'm not a mechanic, do fiddle with my truck sometimes but mostly craft/maker stuff and always enjoy learning about systems and production components and processes.
The rear lower control arms have machining on both sides to alow them to be used on either side of the vehicle instead of left and right variants.
I think 🤔.....
It looks like that is likely.
Yep, they appear largely symmetrical other than the pivot nut.
Does the bolt have a shoulder so the two holes sizes are the same?
Fully symmetrical? Or a common casting to be machined?
Excellent analysis. Thank you.
Great video as the two of you compliment each other in making complex topics easier to understand & appreciate…
Jordan-“Get big air.”
Thank you
My thoughts are that the reason they have two compressors is that the one used for the air suspension might not be rated for high duty cycle. And that if somebody was using the air compressor for extended periods or just using the air facility a lot. The service life of that compressor could be exceeded in a short amount of time. The cheaper compressor may actually be lower volume and rated for higher duty cycle.
Well that was fun - on both sides of the camera, it seems!
I cannot believe the size of that calliper. Almost the size of the lower control arm. Crazy strong brakes.
Good analysis! Thanks! And yes, let’s see that back-flip, Jordan!
When speaking on the f150 rear leaf spring suspension, should clarify that the ev lightning does not use leaf springs
True, and same for Chevrolet: the Silverado has rear leaf springs and a beam axle, but the Silverado EV has independent rear suspension.
And then the question is which one feels better on bumps and potholes in real life.
The rear LCAs are machined on both sides because they are the same part, just flipped for the other side, so it makes sense to be machined on two sides
"Let's get Jordan to do a back flip in dress shoes." SAFETY THIRD!!! 😆
Great Video !!!
Thanks!
air tanks have moisture and corrode over time I would want that to be a replaceable part and not part of the main structure. some times i really think there ideas are making something faster and cheaper to built but its also a cheaper product with possible long term problems.
"over time"… how long are we talking about? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?
Would it depend on the climate too? Less moisture in the air in Colorado vs. Florida
@@privettoli yes climate changes that. Not sure I know my compressor in the garage I have to drain all the time.
You both make a great team
Thanks!
Jordan and Scott videos are great 👍
Those front struts are a joint effort: the upper air spring part is from "United Kingdom" (1:46) and the damper section (Monroe-branded) from Poland.
And about the 11th-hour aux air compressor: neither it nor the main suspension one are actively cooled, so if there were only one compressor, that leaves the possibility of the main one getting cooked from, say, pumping up a huge innertube at the lake, that would leave the truck dead in the water so to speak. So having the aux one is insurance against the bad "optics" of a Rivian on a tow truck...
Our Czech Tatra trucks have had the pneumatic suspension since I was a boy - at least 50 years. Also their rear wheels were always on half-axle driven from the central column, so they were roding on their outer wheel rims when unloaded. But sometimes since 1980+ uears they added that pneumatic suspension to those rear wheels so when the truck was empty, the air pressure cushion got lowered and this this old funny setup was fixed and imho is better system than other trucks in general.
Air compressor looks conspicuously similar to an ARB compressor (not so coincidentally also from Australia).
Gotta get these likes up!! Standing backflip in dress shoes!!
Are the lower control arms and struts the same part numbers? Is it possible those additional machined perches are there so the part can be used on either side?
It's easy to see why Rivian has a cost problem on these vehicles. Everything is first class.
RIVIAN almost makes NOTHING in their Vehicles, TESLA China is 95% in House.
Will need to see what happens in version 2 and beyond. They'll have to start doing cost reductions like Teslas
@@gordkao no they just needs to offer this same truck but with much less features like no air suspensions, but with adaptive suspensions…..
@@gordkao Achieving higher production volume would help too.
Great video, I like to give a suggestion as well, it would be nice while you are speaking about the different parts also share where they are made and who have made them, (as some of them can be discovered from the stickers on them even in this video).
Yes, like where were the castings made, were they done here in US?
That Australian air compressor (to pump the tires) is made by ARB! Cool!
The accessory air compressor was originally going to be an option that Rivian just decided to incorporate into every truck.
Into every high end truck because they can make similar truck but with just adaptative suspensions no need of air or hydraulics which are expensive
Air suspension is wonderful until it fails and you get the repair bill.
Exactly and that’s why off-road trucks doeent prefer that.
I did not expect Scott's voice to be that 😳
Golden CO is still a wonderful place to be.
I believe it was about 30 or 40 years ago that GM/Chevrolet gasoline powered medium duty trucks went to the AutoPark Brake System powered by an electric motor to replace the parking pawl in the transmission. You saw these in the P-Series Van Chassis used by delivery companies (UPS, FedX, Bakeries, Fritos, SnapOnTools, etc, etc), Ambulances and Motor Homes. Transmissions without a parking pawl are not a new thing that just recently came about due to electrification and have been widely used in many vehicles providing for our daily needs and emergency services using automatically activated electric parking brakes with no parking pawl in the transmission on the road in the US for almost four decades now.
I didn't know that medium-duty trucks had already gone this way - thanks!
After quick web search it appears that this system was used when GM 4L80E were used on trucks too heavy for that transmission's parking pawl, and with transmissions that didn't have parking pawls (e.g. Allison 2100).
At least some (probably all) of these systems use a dedicated drum brake on the transmission output shaft, not parking brakes at the wheels.
@@brianb-p6586 That single brake drum on the drive shaft was a problem unless the rear differential was a fully locked differential since with a regular unlocked differential all you needed was for one rear wheel to loose traction and then you'd have no more parking brake. The automatic system that securely sets both rear brakes is a huge improvement over the early systems or even the parking pawl. No danger of dropping the drive shaft trying to engage the new system when the vehicle is moving.
@@neilfromclearwaterfl81 I appreciate the advantage of parking brakes on individual wheels, but my motorhome (on a 2008 Ford F53 chassis) has just a drum brake on the driveshaft as a parking brake (operated by a typical foot pedal), in combination with a transmission parking pawl (in the 4R100 automatic transmission). This is not uncommon, or unique to automatic transmission vehicles without a parking pawl. In the case of the F53, the driveshaft-mounted drum is used because the fixed-caliper disk brakes on the rear axle do not include a parking function, and Ford (or Dana) chose not to add separate parking calipers. It works for us, so far.
The driveshaft-mounted parking brake should not be capable of exerting enough torque to damage the driveshaft.
@@brianb-p6586 Automatically or rather Manually Activated and Electrically Applied in an emergency situation such as with loss of hydraulic brakes at speed the old autopark system (which the older F53 did not have) has been noted as too aggressive since it cannot really be modulated like a foot or hand operated brake so its either full on or completely off. It can lead to loss of directional stability and can result in dropping the driveshaft especially on a high mileage vehicle or an older unit run in the Salt Belt. I have maintained and owned both P-30 and F-53 along with GM and Ford Super Duty trucks. Had one driver go over the guardrail when the driveshaft tube failed and dug into the pavement flipping the truck over and down into a swamp however thankfully he just got a few scrapes and bruises. That failure was on a truck that was less than a year old. On the disc brakes not having a park brake function, thats at the discretion of the chassis builder since you can stack a drum with the disc or have a secondary caliper such as the 120 series Wildwood mechanical parking brake calipers or get a caliper with a cam lever or other actuator on it (cam lever option has been available since at least the 1960's) to provide park/emergency braking.
Great job. My thoughts..is it possible the rear lower arm is a single forging designed to be used on both sides of the vehicle? The 2 arms zip tied together look symmetrical…if so, that would explain the pad and extra machined surface and holes that are not being used. On the accumulator, I do agree with the concept of combining it with something that is preexisting, just not sure the rear subframe is the best idea. Tank failures are obviously pretty rare, but if a tank DID fail, not only would it mean replacement of the entire rear subframe, but it could possibly represent a structural integrity issue on such a highly loaded component.
Yes I would like to see Jordan do a backflip; as an extra challenge, try doing it with a dollar bill between your feet.
Can you please do some on road testing with towing with the rivian, f150, and CT when available? Range, power, braking, load etc?
I disagree about integrating the tank into the cradle. If the tank ever has a leak or stripped fittings, gets a dented crack, etc. and needs to be replaced for some reason-- now you would have to replace the entire cradle; not good. What Tesla did makes a lot more sense because it's still a smaller part, and yet it's serving multiple functions, and still easily replaceable. It's not good to integrate things that may need to be renewed later-- and all pressure vessels have a shelf life. I do like the idea of integrating things and getting more than one use of whatever you can; and also with Tesla leading the way with the large body castings-- great stuff. But you have to draw a line between the bulk structure items and consumable accessories. For example, you wouldn't want to integrate the alternator and starter into the block of an engine -- I'm sure you could do it, but it's just not a great idea. Some things are best left isolated and easily removable/ replaceable.
They have a good chemistry, could be a nice couple. 👨❤👨
6:50 The aux air compressor looks like an 11th hour bail out. I'd guess they started with one pump and an integral distribution block with regulator for the utility air. I'm guessing the operating parameters of the suspension air and the utility air are disparate and they encountered a deal breaker forcing them to resort to that aux pump.
Hopefully R1.1 has a heat pump, one air pump, bigger frunk, bigger thermal management capacity, dynamic aero (a chin splitter at the front could drop down 4+ inches to greatly improve aero and complete redesign of the 2nd row seat (R1T and R1S) along with obviously the 180kWh+ "Max Pack" battery bringing hopefully much better charge curve and better battery efficiency.)
Could the machined provisions unused simple because those control arms and struts are reversible?
Backflip, Backflip, Backflip!!!
Scott
Hope you won the bet with the other guys that you could get the "back flip" request into the presentation.
In 2022, at what point does giving away some material make up for the additional design, manufacturing, shipping, storing, inventorying, assembly costs for a separate part number? If Rivian incorporates the air tank into the cradle, wouldn’t it cheaper long-term to give it away even if it’s not optioned?
Considering the brakes, it makes sense to be performance... It's a very heavy vehicle
Not just heavy.. fast as hell. The Rivians with 4 wheel motors are sports car fast acceleration.. not much on the top end.. limited to like 116 mph or something.. but very fast acceleration around 3.5 secs 0-60. That kind of acceleration should be coupled to performance braking for those.. oh shit, moments.
@@airheart1 yes, I know that... There is a lot to say about electric mobility.... I'd love to ride one, especially a Tesla...
@@airheart1 even tesla is heavy but they choosed crappy brakes what a shame!!
@@carholic-sz3qv lol.. i assume you mean the Plaid’s brakes. The standard brakes are adequate for probably the majority of owners who will never track the car and never approach top speeds. Certainly not repeatedly. Anyone who wants to do that, would be wise to go buy the carbon ceramic kit Tesla sells, or one of the aftermarket brands. Though I do agree, Tesla should have made the standard brakes a bit beefier for one of the quickest and fastest machine’s on the planet. But it’s not that hard to upgrade them if you got the cash and want better.
@@airheart1 nonsense!!!! Stop justifying shit!!! Who actually buys a 1000hp car to drive like a grandma!? Also no one needs to reach the top speeds! It’s all about enjoying the car a lot more. There is a reason why even standard Porsche or even Mercedes’ brakes are much better than the plaid standard ones.
Air compressor assembled in Australia??
ARB compressor
Audio seems slightly out of sync
😮 is it Sandys truck you’re tearing apart?! Will you put it back together again?
Nothing they tear apart ever goes back together. This one was purchased to tear down.
Is there a possibility to upgrade the inverter in the Rivian to get more than 1.5KW from the truck?
My Model S has two rear calipers per wheel. I’m guessing one is a separate parking brake, but why not just use the main caliper as a parking brake? I suppose for redundancy? But what was the reasoning or calculation that got to that determination?
The system which uses the service (main) caliper for parking only works with sliding calipers. The Rivian has sliding calipers in the rear, so it can use them for the parking function; however, your Model S has fixed-body calipers, which won't work for parking so it has separate parking calipers (which are the sliding type). Later Model S rear brakes are sliding calipers, just like the Rivian.
Yeah, just saying, Jordan looks like he got some mean six pack lol
My air spring ram rides rides great until the suspension tries to kill you, big bumps it gets really out of shape
Their voices got swapped 😂
Citroen DS says "hi"?
Thanks Jordan and Scott!
If something brakes on a Rivian, it seems you need your bank account to be able to take the hit! I think Rivian needs to simplify to have bigger earnings...
Nonsense!!!! It seams actually super easy with much less integrated parts compared to tesla lol….. I bet you can very easy fit an aftermarket air pump or even reservoir or even suspensions on the rivian compared to tesla
Is Scott's voice sped up ? 😆
Air and moisture do not go together well! Hopefully these air suspension systems have a safe guard against it or there will be future problems the owner will have to deal with.
Nice, I learned alot
I'm pretty sure Elon already mentioned that the Tesla Cybtertruck will use the same compressor for their air suspension for their accessory air line as well. So I hope more little changes like that will make the Cybtertruck better from a manufacturing standpoint than the Rivian.
Daffy Duck right there
its funny how some people are coserned towing whit air suspension in new pickups, and same time semi trucks have had air suspension at least 20 years.
Lol…… air suspensions are expensive to repair and also for bad roads it’s not the air suspensions won’t last very long that’s why leaf springs are still so popular
@@carholic-sz3qv so how many of those trucks will tow in a bad enough road that air suspension can't cope with it. And if air is so bad at towing why almost all new semi trucks come whit air suspension. Or then European roads are just that much better that getting air suspension is no brainer.
C'mon. Lower control arms are non-exclusive left/right.
2x mega cute guys
Your engineer doesn’t know what he is talking about. He mentioned the low quality mass produced air compressor. It even says assembled in Australia, how does he not know that it is most likely and ARB unit which happens to be one of the most common best air compressors on the market. Learn you stuff.
"A little unique" ... "somewhat unique" Could be worth looking for some other descriptions! After all something is either unique or it's not. "Unusual" or "less common" would do the job.
Helium...that is all.
What do y'all think about Sandy's suggestion that EVs with regen braking could go back to drum brakes? Money and weight savings for what are essentially emergency brakes, only called upon in rare situations.
It's not all that rare to require mechanical braking. An EV starting out with a full charge will have essentially zero regen available and will need all of the mechanical braking system under those conditions. Since EVs tend to be heavier than their gas counterparts, they will need superior braking for those times that regen isn't available or emergency situations.
At high states of charge they cannot use Regen braking to it's fullest extent
Some recent EVs do indeed have drum brakes at the rear.
EVs are heavy, I wouldn't want drums
Certain battery chemistries still allow for significant regen storage when charged to 100%. The chemistry Rivian is currently using doesn't.
Great to see...,or to not see... made it China!
It has always been technically and legally feasible to use the parking brake only, with no parking pawl in the transmission. Every manual-transmission car does this, but here are two problems. First, an EV's motor doesn't usefully resist turning when the power is off, unlike an engine coupled through a manual transmission, so the parking brake by itself may be considered ineffective; the motor-applied parking brake doesn't change that. Secondly, drivers are careless idiots, and so with automatic transmission the parking pawl was used in conjunction with a shift selector that encouraged drivers to use it rather than just stopping in Neutral or Drive; without a parking pawl the parking brake application needs to be automatic to enable idiots to drive, and so the parking brake needs a motor.
Munro people should stick to describing the parts and explaining the associated production processes and costs, and not try to explain anything about automotive performance. The suspension discussion was truly cringe-worthy.
I like the content but would rather not see him flapping his hands.
Dump you Tacoma and BUY an EV.
I think you can skip explaining the basics. Your audience are all technically minded.
Despite posts in the comment section often proving otherwise.....
The brakes seem overkill / wasteful in an EV. It's basically cost for the sake of bling.
Wrong!!!!! This is perfect for a heavy super fast truck unlike the crappy tesla that immediately overheated after one launch lol….. grow up!
It’s is also made for towing so additional brake even with regenerative is still nice to have
@@carholic-sz3qv The tesla plaid has the same front brakes. Grow up?? Seriously? You realize the regen is inversely proportional to the RPM of the wheels. Aka the Faster the speed the stronger the regen.
7k pound performance vehicle - it needs brakes at least this powerful. If anything, they may be a bit too small.
Winning duo for presentations for sure. And yes, backflip please.
That accessory air compressor looks exactly like the ARB compressor I bought specifically for pumping up tires on my 4x4 after they've been aired down for sand driving. ARB is Australian, like the part you showed.
Identical extrusion (they normally blue anodise?)
Same casting pattern with the "flares" on the fins.
Same endcap for the electrics.
Definitely ABR
Yeah, nothing bespoke about that. Basic ARB compressor with custom branding. Definitely weird that they have two compressors though.
Comment for the algorithm so we can increase views and get that back flip!
Jordan is so great running videos, really enjoy him explaining analysis!
And a great smile
Great video. Educational as always.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Regarding the redundant machining on the Lower Control Arms: Are they maybe Mirrored (or are otherwise mostly the same)? so they have the same Part for both Left and Right, and the side where it goes is decided in a diffrent step where this blue Nut is added?
Still Savings potential there, but this would allow for some more flexibility
Love the ending! Glad I watched til the end. It’s cool to see a team of engineers be able to joke around.
I would worry about the security the electric parking brake can provide in the Rivian compared to a mechanical one on other vehicles in offroad environments. It is common knowledge you park with your rig locked into 4WD when parking on steep offroad areas. This allows all four wheels to participate via the drivetrain in keeping the vehicle from moving. Seems the Rivian would only use the back wheels, given the greater weight of the Rivian, it might slide down a hill dragging the back wheels the whole way. I've seen it happen to Jeeps that were parked in 2H, it can and will happen with the Rivian. Would be nice if that motorized park brake was on all four wheels. Maybe this is a change that can be put into a future model of theirs.
Thanks for review and intro to these devices, Interesting equipment, unusual stuff to see for most.
Thanks for watching!
I think we need to push this vid to everyone. I would surely enjoy to watch that back flip.These tear downs and detailed videos are great. Keep up the fantastic work.
Excellent, I learn something new every time I watch Munro. 👍👍🇺🇸
Thanks 👍
The best part of the video was seeing parts made in UK/Poland/OZ. NOT China. Breath of fresh air.
08:10 - I tend to agree with Rivian as the Compressor is essential to the driving, better have a secondary unit for leisure. Great content. Thanks
Use the same compressor for suspension and for air inflation? Yes - VW in 2004+ with the Touareg.
However, if you want to use the compressor a lot, having a separate air compressor that is not critical to vehicle functionality is a nice idea.
I think Tesla should have updated the Citroen hydraulic suspension system. With two electric pumps there would be no need for a hydraulic accumulator. It could power suspension, brakes, steering and even give a basic active suspension.
Pretty sure that’s just an off the shelf ARB compressor. You give them too much credit when they just piece meal it together.
Assembled in Australia.....by ARB?
Thanks Jordan and Scott for your interesting and detailed insights into the Rivian suspension.
Thanks for watching, Norman
That's an ARB compressor
I thinking about how will the air system will hold up over time Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz (esp the oil-powered system) are very expensive and notorious for breaking with different kits available to fully strip it out and replace it with more common components and designs.
Have had Tesla’s air suspension for 5 years, 85k miles. 0 problems so far.. knock on wood lol
@@airheart1 though that's not an off road car. Huge difference.
I suspect Tesla might do a better job of engineering the air suspension components to last very long given that they are trying to build a reputation whereas Mercedes-Benz and range Rover have a bunch of captive snobby clients. Off-road presents some challenges with potential for very dusty environment but is that really why they have had problems? I hope the cybertruck has an air suspension standard.
@@glike2 cyber has to.. from all the kneeling they showed it doing. I don’t think they’d make different version of suspension for different trims. Unlikely anyway
@@airheart1 lol…… hydraulic suspensions are much more quicker to response and smoothen the driving of the vehicle, Toyota has had hydraulic suspensions for over a decade now it’s called KDSS.
BACK FLIP! BACK FLIP! BACK FLIP!
Great review and analysis guys! Good team. Backflip Jordan!