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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ต.ค. 2016
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This seems to be the cheapest price I can find for 19x15.5mm Roller weights for the HiPer 2 Engine:
Affiliate Link: ebay.us/ilz7yP
This is the best price I can find for the Variator tool: Affiliate link: ebay.us/ydvBDZ
Affiliate Links to the list of modifications made to this bike:
Clutch springs: ebay.us/sd4CVm
Roller weights: ebay.us/SxFdGM
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Thank you for the huge jump in subscriptions! I certainly don't know everything about scooters so please share your knowledge with me but I will try my best to document my modifications so you can do the same to your bike.
With all the engine modifications complete and put behind us, I am excited to begin transmission tuning. The factory transmission is designed for the perfect balance between fuel consumption, engine longevity, and performance. For my application, however, what I need it maximum performance at the sacrifice of more fuel - (It's a 50cc bike and fuel consumption is frankly the least of my concern!) So with that said, most manufacturer install stock roller weights that are far too heavy. It turns out Piaggio uses 6.5g stock roller weights in this 2005 Piaggio Typhoon. Leo Vince supplies 5.8g weights so might as well give it a try before I purchase even lighter roller weights! Piaggio report this engine makes peak horsepower at 9500RPM. With that said however, Leo Vince never really supplied any information at which optimal RPM this expansion chamber exhaust pipe is designed for. However, it's elongated shape and reviews on the internet tends to suggest this pipe is made for the higher 9000+RPM. This video will show you how to install the Leo Vince 5.8G roller weights into the transmission. Hope you enjoy!
Think of engines as an air pump. The more air you can get into the combustion chamber, the more power there is available - with the proper fuel mixture. Our previous modifications showed you how to allow the engine to suck in more air per stroke while the expansion chamber in the exhaust works to keep that air fuel mixture inside the chamber from escaping. Obviously, this power will come at the sacrifice of more noise, poorer fuel mileage, and more engine wear. Therefore always modify your motorcycle at your own discretion based on your own needs. Check out my other videos in the meantime to make your 50cc scooter much more useful and fun to ride in the city!
Hope you find this video helpful and please like & subscribe for further scooter tuning videos!
If you want your bike to bury the speedo needle like ours did in Episode 1, subscribe and stay tuned for future episodes. We will show you how to destrict the bike from factory, install the Leo Vince ZXR exhaust, open up the intake, and modify the transmission. Come along with us as we transform this little 50cc scooter from a slow and boring bike to a fast and peppy machine that will do circles around traffic!
Other bikes that shares the same platform/engine includes Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia, Peugot, Gilera, TPH, Typhoon, LT50, LX50, ET50, Scarabeo, Stalker, Zip, Fly, etc.
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Thanks for this video of yours, it really helps me a lot. 👍🇵🇭
Thank you for watching.
pinoy here sir.. question lng po ano po ba best roller for 150 honda click
Your videos are great, i’ve learned heaps in the last hour or so going through the scooter mods. Awesome job, thanks so much!
great advice keep up the good work
Thank you for the kind words
Also depends a bit on the pressurespring in the torquedriver and the type/brand of variator. With a standard vario my kymco dj with same exhaust (tecnigas) ran best with 5.8 rollers. With naraku vario 6 works beter to keep it in the powerband. I use a heavy pressurespring and clutchsprings in a standard torquedrive and clutch.
Thanks for the info brother! more power to your channel! new subs here
Thanks for the sub!
Very Well Explained great 👍 🎉
man, this really helpful
Thank you
Great video, liked and subbed ⚡️
Thomas Larsen thank you 👍🏻
Great video
Do you reckon I could do this my self as I still need to find what size my rollers are I have a sinnis twist 50 I believe my rollers are 6.5g my moped goes quite fast but it quickly slows down on hill going 30 right down to 20 even 15 what do roller weights do you recommend
If it's performing well as you said, but suffers on hills that's expected. You would now need to look into extracting more power out of the engine now with engine modifications
LIGHTER ROLLER WEIGHTS = MORE SPEED. that made me laugh.
You know what's funnier? Medemblikker favorited "How to get a girlfriend" video on youtube.
FIFTYmil damn that was a Good comment *kuch kuch
kuch kuch? th-cam.com/video/S9DsCP9Th7Y/w-d-xo.html ? No wonder you're still looking for a girlfriend.
FIFTYmil im actually gay so im not looking for a girlfriend :)
glad you came out of the closet about that and gave up liking videos on how to get a girlfriend. well done ;)
Great video bro this will help new comers a lot
Thank you!
Thank you for watching.
Thanks for that
Thank you for watching!
Great video bro
Thank you for watching, please subscribe!
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
It depends on the set up of the scooter. If you are in stock mode you will lose high end speed and increase take of. You have to get a mid range to get take of and high speed at the same time mixing heavy and light weights in variator example: 1 heavy roller: 1 light roller and so on and trie diferent grams... been ther donne that! PIAGGIO NRG 1995.
Absolutely wrong. Your choice of wording already illustrates lack of knowledge. Define "high end speed"? Define" Increased take off?" and define what makes a weight go suddenly from heavy to light weight. Might as well use a butt dyno to measure how much faster your scooter got!
As you can see in my videos I illustrate with concrete evidence each step I make and how it affects the scooter as a whole. Tuning is on a spectrum and not "High end vs low end" black and white as you suggested. If you understand the concept, you wouldn't need to try different gram weights as you have done and waste money, time and have a bunch of spare roller weights left over.
FIFTYmil i have been ther donne that. I have a piaggio nrg 1st model year 1995. I have had many kits ... Now i have a high end motor on her that i had built tunedported malossi team 2. I know how it works. Your video is correct but lighter weights gives you better take of more rpms loose. Heavyer gives you more high end speed and loses take of. Mix lighter and heavy rollers on vario 3 of each like i said and be the judge. Been ther donne that. Level 1 on stock engine. Go check some of my nrg r1 videos. Im the mecanic of my own scooter. I know this type of engines long gonne. Im 38 years old. Since 1995 i have this nrg ive donne many experiments with varios rollers ignitions cilinder kits exhausts giglers you name it... Trie what i said about rollers on your kind of set up amd amaze your self riding her with more take of and more high end speed at same time. Perfect for city streets.
PIRATE SPOT having "been there done that" and a "high end motor" doesn't speak volume about your (lack of) understanding. Can you instead provide proof that is quantifiable? What exactly would classify as a light weight and a heavy weight if I were to mix them as you suggested? What is the net force each roller weight exert on the variator ramps?
Your technic method of good words is really lack of good knowledge and lack of humble caracter.
Ok your the one is really great and all of that and i dont miss my time with this kind of person. Becouse is like trying to help some one and the person dosent care about it. Only of his own knowledge... take care. I do my tuning by trie and experiment, tips from specialized tuning mecanics not from such a video regarding your own ways. Your to ofensive/defensive in your ways of social comunication in coments. So i dont use does methods in my life. Im a humble person not a geek. Im a non ofensive person not a ofensive one. I try to help when ever i can... If you dosent seem to care about my experience regarding my words no cofidence at all in my experience i wont waist my time! You only question me, dont seem to care about what i said. So i dindt dismiss your video, i dind said your rong and i dindt say that you not explain well. I said trie mix roolers and see increase take of and more top end speed. If you dosent seem to be confident enough on my words and i say this with no arm to you or your scooter, only trie to give you a nice tip to see increase performance. So if your to technic and go only for that factory set of words its ok... I use EXPERIENCE not only technic methods. And to give other tip, some use 2+2+2 rollers of diferent weights in variator. Example: 2x 3g + 2x 3.5g + 2x 4g with the right distribution of them. Like i said before, 1x 3g next 1x 3.5g next 1x 4g and the next 3 rollers the same.
To adjust and variate the grams that you whant to get in the scale in total.
Dont judge every thing or every one from your methods or technics from base factory only and think its the only way to do it. Your rong thinking like that man...Chill out man! With this i end my conversation with you. Take care and God bless!
PIRATE SPOT I have no idea what your rambling on about. All I saw was mixing weights. But answer this question: if a variator has two ramps in which you mix weights, one 5g and one 4g, is the net force exerted on the belt equivalent to average of the two weights? That is 2x4.5g. The effects would be exactly the same as using 2x4.5g weight instead of having to mix them. AND You do not get any additional benefits mixing a 4g with a 5g IF there are 4.5g commonly available to purchase.
You only found benefits in mixing weights because certain weights are not available to purchase, such as 4.785g average or simply you do not know the best weights for your bike and resorted to mixing guess and check.
As mentioned in my video, it is also very important to note that when a manufacture indicates a weight is 5g, manufacturing tolerance often results in weights that weighs more or less than 5g. Measuring them first and making adjustment as necessarily would make tuning a more scientific approach rather than a bunch of trial and error as you have done.
Lighter rollers give it a better start hevy rollers give better topspeed
Not realy
@@RubaSon yes realy
Bullshit
th-cam.com/video/VaEpSTVDmAY/w-d-xo.html watch this and forget everything else...
True
its about finding the sweet spot ,, so that you can acc. with best rpm all the way from 0 -> max speed ,,, belt must not slip = heating issue
The term "sweet spot" is ambiguous. More objectively, the correct approach is finding the rpm that produces the peak horsepower - if maximum performance is desired. Obviously this come at the cost of poor fuel efficiency, more belt wear/slip, shorter engine/transmission life, and more heat being produced.
As always great video. Very well explained. I like the idea of weighting all the rollers and place them across from each other depending on their weight
Thanks! It's definitely a small and perhaps insignificant step but I think it shouldn't be overlooked for sure.
All the little details combined is what makes it a great performing ride in the end 🖒
good vid
Thank you for the comment!
That variateur tool also works on the 50cc 4 stroke engines and on the older Piaggio/Puch models (with this type of transmission)
JRC yup that is correct
Locking pliers and a washcloth always worked well for me
The tool was less than $10.
@@FIFTYmil Price isn't the issue. If locking pliers and washcloth works fine, I'll keep using them. BTW, lighter weights means less top speed with better acceleration.
well i ca see by your last awnser that you are essentialy going for what i explaind.what is the engines powerband?is it only hp or only tork or a cobination of both?by only changing the rollers to ligther ones you make the tranmision hold lower gear with higer rpm.so the engine rews more before the cluch in the back engages and the wheel moves.rigth?i am saying that it is a cobination of cluch spring tention in the back and rollers should bee done at the same time.by losing tention on the 2-3 small springs for2-3 cluch shoes it engages at lower rpm if you tighen them or change collor springs(they are often collor coded)to hevyer springs it engages with higher rpm.if your weel starts to go at max hp as you indicated is the same as saying you want to get the wheel moving at max rpm.then you have only about 500rpm for the redline.if you mean that it should catch where the engine curves powerband is at max you look at the tork curve.it should start to move the wheel where the tork has max peak.around 5-6000rpm or 7000 one some.if it engages at let say 6000rpm you have around 4000rpm to get thru the cvt gear range so you at max rpm 9000where hp max is and 500 more before the redline.i revisit cvt regularly to bee shure.have done this for 40years.if you can point out where i am wrong i gladly corect after i have confirmd by teksbook on cvt.you comment i anwserd to was you sad litgher rooler so it engages at max hp wich is meaningless.you have no more rpm to go on as soon as the bike move then
Hi Thks four your exllente video I have a Peugeot V-Clic 50cc 4T whitch best size rollers you recommend four best top speed thank you 😮
Your clutchbell is burnt, means that your clutch is slipping (draging) and your belt is already first gear, here's an idea for you to learn, cvt transmission is RPM dependent , if your just replacing part without knowing your PowerBand it's useless, the belt must be touching the bushing of pulley side so that you have your first gear better acceleration, to do that you have to add washer to the bushing before the drive face to increase the gap depends how thick you need, for belt to touch the bushing, second thing modifie your torque drive slide piece pin slot to make open, and close of the tourqe drive wider/narrower so that you increase your low end n top speed, third thing center spring of the cluth the harder the spring rate the more duration of every gears, (manual transmission analogy) same with the clutch spring again cvt is RPM dependent so that putting a harder spring to build RPM if your stock 1000rpm center spring 1200 rpm clutch spring is a good combination, ROLLERS are for you to work on, just use straight weight and don't do combination thank me later.
Most of the increased wear came from changing to a stiffer clutch engagement spring. This modification is a quick and temporary solution to accomodate that
I use an old tennis shoe to hold the kickstarter gear while i remove it, works well, free
The variator tool is so cheap it's essentially free also.
Haha. Me too. An old fucking shoe wedged between the belt and the drive face/variator. Engineering at it's finest! 😂.
Always pinch the belt so it's slack and free moving behind the variator. Also to get more mph use a few shims between the variator.
Thank ya
You're welcome, thank you for watching!
@@FIFTYmil would you mind following my channel hyosung sf50
We ALL need more POWER!
Yes!
Also support in yamaha ray z scooter
Endelig fandt jeg en kanal der lavede på typhoon. Har ledt i så lang tid
Could you translate to english for me?
First Xmax250 using CVT. the hype of light and heavy roller got me confuse. based on one weight, should one choose the roller weight where RPM hits almost where the peak HP of a bike. in this case factory spec max power at 7,000rpm, hence i should be changing or not change should my rpm hits 6,500-6,800rpm ? if that is correct, am confused as my RPM odometer shows 8,800rpm red line. my biggest dilemma, should i based on 7,000 or 8,800 rpm.
Bro if your scooter have peak power at 7000 rpm and you want max acceleration you must setup cvt to hold engine at 7000 rpm 👌🏻 redline is pointless 👍🏻
Lighter weights = more acceleration, same top end. At a certain point in speed, the variator is fully wound out/extended/“done it’s thing” and acts the same a fixed cog. The increase in road speed after that point is gained from increasing engine RPM. Roller weights are immaterial after this point.
That is a good point, but you're assuming that the engine is capable of pushing the roller weight all the way out (eg. pushing the belt to the furthest perimeter of the pulley). That is not true. You can verify how far out the belt travels on the variator driven face by drawing a sharpie mark on the driven face. In most cases, improper weights would make the engine struggle to push the belt all the way out. The point in which the engine struggles to push the belt out any further, RPM will increase because the engine does not have enough power to increase the transmission ratio.
thanks very much for your excellent explanations!!!
indeed
You're very welcome. thank you for watching.
Good video. I'm new to scooters. Looking to get a 2019 NRG50. Dont see anything in the description title that says the type of bike your working on. Any of these vids apply to the nrg50?
The video title says episode 16. The scooter being worked on is most likely introduced in the first episode ie. episode 1. What engine and carburetor is equipped on the nrg50?
Great video. Will try those weights on my 2019 NRG.
Also. Saw your side kick stand. Were did you get it? Cant find any in this country. Hate the center stand for every day use. See many for sale on ebay.... but cant figure out how it mounts.
There's a hole in the frame underneath the scooter. A square nut is placed inside the hole and the kickstand is tightened onto it. The square shape of the nut prevents it from rotating so it would allow the bolt to tighten. You could probably make that critical piece yourself and fit any kickstand to your scooter in that sense. I purchased the kickstand from a local store but they have sinced closed down. I remember seeing that kickstand on many european scooter tuning stores - just a generic chinese piece!
@@FIFTYmil thanks for the response. The links on ebay have expired. I misspelled a few things on my last post. Will the weights work on my 2019 NRG? Are all 50cc Piaggio weights the same? Or do I need a specific one for my bike? Thanks.
Hi sir, i have scoot 250cc it mentioned max hp at 8500 rpm..how does this information help me to tune the variator?
Nice video!!!
I have a vespa lx 50 4 time stroke, stock weight is 6.1 i think.
Which weight do you think is the best for some more acceleration but not lossing top sped?
get 80 cc bbk with camshaft.4t dont like to run at high rpm.
What rpm do you see at full throttle during acceleration?
I really enjoyed your video, thanks. I have a Kymco 500cc and want to make it quicker. I'm tempted to go for a after market exhaust and/or rollers but would I also need to up jet and fine tune also. I'm also thinking about a slip on exhaust if less work is required as opposed to the full system.
Jose Fosterini lighter roller weights would be the less invasive modification with probably one of the biggest improvement.
Thanks. So prob just a new belt and rollers then
Jose Fosterini typically 500cc should have a more advanced variation system. Some even use two sets of roller weights. I would first install a tachometer to determine what rpm your current transmission is working at. After that I would tune the roller weights lighter or heavier depending on your needs. The closer your transmission works at peak horsepower rpm, the faster it will be at the sacrifice of other factors
My 150cc gy6 has 13g weights from the factory, cold start 1600rpm warmed up 2000~2300. It takes off at 4000rpm like a clutch on a 5 speed bike,,,,, so what are 13g weights mean?
to be honest, i tried screwing around with tighter clutch springs, but that only works if you have a bigger engine. lets say you have a 70cc muonted then you might want a tighter clutch, but the simple 50cc engine doesnt need to be tighter, the normal springs work great, even with a finetuned engine like yours.
That's interesting. I think engine displacement would have been irrelevant (ie.all transmissions would benefit from a tigther clutch spring if performance is all you're after). On my 50cc 4-stroke Ruckus, the tighter clutch springs were a very good upgrade in terms of the bike's response and fun factor. However, it also led to overheating the clutch bell in stop & go traffic. Imagine dumping your clutch at 8000RPM in stop & go traffic on a motorcycle every single time you move an inch forward! For that reason, I didn't end up installing them. However, they do make the bike more fun, more responsive, and gives you a much harder launch from standstill. An absolute-must if you want your scooter to pull wheelies.
but if your clutch spring get TOO TIGHT, the clutch will only scrape the clutch bell for the first 10-15 km/h, giving a higher wear and tear, and less torque (slower starting) at the beginning
yes i have a slightly tighter clutch spring in my scooter, but its only 1 step tighter than original. if you go to malossi clutch spring, you can see white (original strenght, just for replacement) - green (1,2x strenght) - red - yellow - etc....
i was using red, which is i think 1.5x strenght, or 2x strenght and it wasnt really fun to drive, so i got back to the green giving me a 1.2x strenght and its just perfect for an upgraded 50cc, i researched it online, and the tighter clutch springs will be better for 70cc if you also use a heavier weight roller. for example, right now using 4,2gr rollers, and the green clutch spring. if i was going to use a 70cc engine, i would put in heavier rollers, like 5,5-6gr and a tighter clutch spring.
I think those are two seperate concepts and should be tuned seperately. However yes absolutely, with more power (ie. more cc) I would definitely go with heavier roller weights. The exact same setup I have in my 50cc right now would not be suitable for a 70cc because the roller weights would be too light and I am generating less than optimal force to push the drive belt than a heavier weight setup would be able to achieve. With that said however, I think your observation of clutch springs being too tight is inline with the clutch pads being unable to engage - ie. Lots of slipping/overheating and not a lot of accelerating. That is because the OEM clutch is designed to engage at a specified RPM. Moderate increase in clutch spring stiffness may generate slightly better response at the cost of more clutch wear. On the otherhand, extreme increase in clutch spring stiffness will lead to poorer results because simply the stock clutch can't handle it.
I installed 4.3 gram rollers, and it was going like with half power. Then i used 3 4.3 gram and 3 old ones 6.3-6.4 (Can't remember) and it was going OK, but a bit slower, than with stock. Did your 5.7 was better than stock? I drive Gilera Runner SP 50 2010
It depends on the RPM you see. What RPM do you see accelerating with 4.3g rollers? Assuming you installed the roller weights correctly, your combination of 4.3 and 6.3g roller is equivalent to 5.3g roller weight force exerted on the variator. Again, what is the rpm for the 4.3/6.3 combo?
I have a piaggio zip 2013 and its fully de restricted and has a yasuni z pipe, i have upjetted the carb and put in lighter rollers however it struggles to pick up speed off start and The power band doesnt really start until about 10mph then it is quick and it will top out at about 55 mph. What do you think could be causing this problem?
Those symptoms are typically the result of the carb not providing proper fueling either too much or too little. Assuming you go WOT from a standstill, it is possible your carb is running too rich and there is an oversupply of fuel at low RPMs but that is just one possible explanation.
I have the same scales but mine are covered in drug residue....
isabel Hughes I cleaned mine before I film ;)
Lmao
mike stradling are u a drug lord?? Few grams is quite a bit for scales 3 pointers are the ones
neuclearb0mb few grams is minor fam 😂
@@gmsmith5678 ml
Hi will it ruin my c.v.t if I ran 3. 9GM.Rollers. instead of the 6?
Can i use ligher rollers on a stock variator? Sorry that im late
Yo do u know how much does weight rolls from a stock Piaggio zip 4t 2017?
Faster better speed in stop and go traffic, But you lose your top end speed, I thought I would test this video and found this out.. I live in the country and I might have to stop ever 6 - 10 miles. With heavy rollers I can get up to 48 mph, Which is nice, with 7g rollers I max out at 26 mph, That speed loss is very weird.. Very quicker if I get bellow the handle bars.. With the lighter rollers I'm perfect for stop and go traffic, parking lots, stop signs etc etc.. You should base what I said on what you should need :). Plus off of FIFTYmil's post. Also I'm now using the DLH variator pack. Pst do you have a video on how to replace the little springs on the clutch?
Not necessarily true - For example I went from 8g rollers to 6.5g rollers without changing anything else, and my top speed increased by 6mph and acceleration was greatly improved. You can see my other episodes to proof that point. The most important thing is finding the correct roller weights (regardless heavier or lighter) at which the engine makes most horsepower (which is torque x rpm), giving you the best acceleration and top speed.
Bro suppose i reduce 6 roller to 3 roller effect will occur my top speed increse
Or suppose total stock roller is 6 six so wht roller would u preferr for top speed
then 7g is too light to overcome the rear variator clutch spring tension. The best one can do is take heavier rollers and try out, if 12 grams end by too low engine rpm, and 10 is too high rpm, just fill up the 10 gram weigths with epoxy resin and drill out the resin to get intermediate weight, start by drilling out 0,5 grams and then try, and do so until you get what you want. With 7 grams you need to adjust clutch spring tension, but you risk to get a clutch the engages at too low rpm.
the lighter the rollers the more acceleration the heavier the rollers more top speed... 100cc bbk I run eight gram rollors I have good take off and good top speed.. the head has 64mm valves I'm running a stock coil with the racing CDI.. I run the aftermarket carburetor air cleaner.. carburetor has a #90 main jet...I put a high performance clutch with 1500rpm springs.... it gets down the road faster than normal... and if you keep your valves adjusted you will get the most performance...out of your scooter...
Michael Medley that's not true as "minor confusion" commented below it is more or less a myth. The critical question is what rpm does your cvt operate at using 8g roller weights? And what is your peak horsepower rpm on the dyno?
It's the opposite, higher weights restrict engine rpm, lower weight increase it. With higher weights you can only reach maximum rap when you have enough engine power to do so.
It's not a transmission case it's a (cvt belt cover) it holds the variator and clutch and belt the transmission is located right on the other side of the cvt belt cover
Richard McCracken are you talking about the final drive case?
How much more mph did you get just for that little of gram difference?
Dude... That music....🤪
my bad, sorry.
Question: 150cc gy6 on a kart. It seems that I have to really press the pedal taking off and then left off the pedal once I get to my preferred cruising speed which is far from max speed. The RPMs just seem to high , too early. I don't care if I lose 10-15mph on top end....what can I do to make it engage faster so It doesn't have to go so high of rpms before my preferred speed is reached? I was told heavier weights?
So you're saying you feel like you need to rev to a really high RPM before the go kart moves?
@@FIFTYmil nah....its more like it revs too high at low speed then like 8mph 4000rpm then I can let off pedal and within a couple 100ft it will be running 15mph at 3100rpm. Very hard to explain via typing.
Then try heavier rollers. If it overrevs your rollers are too light.
@@delahayenator thanks....I have purchased a shim kit as I have seen many videos stating this would help with take off, low end speed, and over revving. I haven't had a chance to put them on yet but will be doing that very soon. I've just had too much going on and will likely be changing the oil to the correct (wet clutch safe) velocity oil. I may have mentioned above that I purchased this UTV 2nd hand with less than 300miles. The original owner said he had someone replace the wet clutch but I have no idea what oil they used. Once I know I have the correct oil in it....I will check out the outer sheave & rollers for any wear (as well as find out their weight), and add the shim kit....if all of that doesn't improve my take off response and the high revving, I will then be looking into changing the weight of the rollers. I hope I can get it to what I think is normal or as it should be. This is my first UTV but I have worked on a lot of ATVs , scooters, gy6 gokarts and feel something isn't right. Thanks again for your reply .
the lighter roller, more torque, less speed
What's the best mod for getting more speed on hills?
I'm not bothered about acceleration or top speed.
Love your videos.
More speed to go up hills mean you probably need to lower the weight of the roller weights so your engine can operate at a higher RPM while travelling uphill.
a cvt is a balance act.if you dont care about tork(pull power) just say so
You do realize horsepower is the product of torque and rpm right?
So heavier roller weights give you more top speed less acceleration
What is with the clutch springs?
Bro please 🙏 can u make full clutch system in mod for wheelie
My PIAGGIO NRG POWER eats tones of RPMS before even moving around 7k rpms and it barely rolls. What’s your suggestions in roller weight and clutch spring
Same thing but with qoud bike
Your a good guy, sucks you get some toxic people making fun. Do you man
What! I love the toxic people as much as cool dudes like you!
What about a 4 stroke 50cc ? Would 5gs be good? I just want a little more take off speed
Check out my other video on 4 stroke 50cc. While 5g is generally recommended, you can optimize for the best by determining what rpm your engine is working at. Everyone is different due to ride weight, tuning, altitude, etc.
Any tips for roller weights for Yamaha Aerox 155cc? It's a straight 13's (stock). My RPM is stuck at 8000 and the limit is 10000. How can i maximize my RPM to 10000? What rollers would i use? 11x3 and 13x3? Or 12x3 and 13x13? Thanks! 🙏🏻
Alpha Vaughn it seems peak horsepower is made at 8000rpm. Unless I have actual data to prove that more power can be made beyond 8000rpm (typically with engine modification) it would actually make the bike slower operating beyond 8000rpm?
I reach 112kph within 8000rpm but when it hits the 8000 mark it never goes up but i feel when the road is a little longer i can reach 118 to 120kph. Top speed of all stock is 122kph but i change my pipe to open. If i upgrade my pulley set, center spring and cluth lining and bell would i reach the topspeed faster?
Hi,I just got a 2nd hand yp400 majesty scooter..(all stock)
Any tips/advice on what to change etc..?
Thks in advance.:)
For starters I like changing the roller weights because they are cheap, easy to change, and gives one of the best improvements.
FIFTYmil ok..thks for the input.:)
mine is using sliding rollers from dr.pulley, weight is 12g with a 1000rpm clutch spring from ktc. went over 110kph (limiter) stock cdi, btw shes honda vision or nsc110
Well done. What is your opinion on sliding rollers?
They are great especially for a long trip! Been putting it on the road from September 2016 and still runs good, does better performance on a hill like 25% improvement.
But I recommend a lighter weight for a 100cc's scooter like 10g.
You can feel it when it starts pulling at 60kph and went to 100 in no time. And also higher top end. Plus last longer than I thought
Flying rollers are badass too!, acceleration is wicked fast, but the design it self wont survive as long as sliding does.
I recently installed that flying rollers, it worn out after 3 weeks of long trip riding and ate the roller housing.
Don Dito Yes exactly! I read that flying rollers wear out incredibly fast so I stayed away from them. However, when I installed sliders they were also lighter than the original rollers so the benefits I saw could be partially associated with the difference in weight. I wasn't able to isolate and study the effects of just the slider profile's contribution to performance. I'll give that another try on the piaggio with the same weights!
Hahaha, you better did
I was curious about the performance but it is incredible (just for a short term).
Yeah, go on and try it! Also why dont u try the Kiss Clutch from tech pulley, ihave heard that its just a clutch but in a whole new level.
I really-really wanna try that clutch, sounds fast lol
Can i remove three weights or one weight is better ? And Will there be a problem later? I have a 150 cc chineese scooter V150 SS
It is not recommended to remove the weights
Do you have a link for the exhaust
Yow mil! I have my scooter 155c Yamaha Aerox, whats the best weight for that??
I looked up the specs: 11.1kW / 8,000 rpm. What RPM do you ride at right now? If it's lower than 8000RPM, get lower weights to achieve operating the tranmission at 8000RPM and you will get the best acceleration and top speed out of your engine (at the cost of greater fuel consumption and engine wear, of course)
6 grams rollers works very good in my taotao thunder 50 with 7.000 miles on it right now.
Good for you!
i don't want a fast scooter. i just want a high accelerated scooter. and of course without compromising my fuel. what grams should i use ? - any suggestion ?
Me too
A scooter that accelerates fast is considered a faster scooter in my definition. Fuel consumption will be compromised when you're asking for more acceleration as governed by science.
Where can I order some doctor clutch springs
Do all rollers have different sides holes
he put the roller weights in backwords
Why put the smaller side in the direction of motion, it would seem that would force the inside part to slide out to the back which has the larger opening.
I took out 3 roller weights and my bike started doing mad wheelies
And don't forget to take out ur air filter
Wrong. You will need to take out the spark plug first if you want any significant horsepower gains and free up the air flow in the combustion chamber.
No that wouldn't do anything. Just cut the red cable connected to your battery to de-restrict the hidden potential.
FIFTYmil Also stuff your exhaust with rags to muffle the sound.
DayAm !! noneya no jak sheeott, if use wantin to make use skooter take offs festur, do likes I does, have yurin pappy take yous and ur skooter up to the tops of the hill and push ya off the side wit his pickup...she'll git rollin reals fast then...Eye maxed my speedo out...evens stopps quicker when ya gits to the bottom of the cliff toos.NOTE to all use young bucks, tries this ats yourin own risk as its usually only guud for tha one run.
Yup ou tha
Sorry I don't understand
Will your modification lower the RPM to which the wheel will start rotating?
The rpm at which the clutch engages and spins the wheel is not affected by changing roller weights. It is determined by the clutch springs.
I had a yamaha slider 50cc Evrything is stock but my problem is. I can’t reach more than 50km What’s your advice should i change the weight or what ??
I need to know your RPM at 50km to know if you're hitting the rev limiter or simply your engine does not have enough power.
LIGHTER ROLLER WEIGHTS = MORE takeoff....But all must in line..
As replied numerous times in the comments below that myth is not always true. The weight of the roller weights has nothing to do with Acceleration (takeoff) VS Top speed. You don't have to give up one for another. The correct roller weight will give you MORE acceleration MORE maximum speed.
''The weight of the roller weights has nothing to do with Acceleration VS Top speed. '' > Practise What Y preach > LIGHTER ROLLER WEIGHTS = MORE SPEED
Something must have gotten lost in translation...
my lighter rollers improved my overall speed across the board hence lighter weights=more speed
lighter weights=more speed, no it is not.
Yes it is. Look at the before and after changing to lighter roller weights episode. Gained significantly more speed regardless acceleration OR max velocity. Proof is in the eating of the pudding
I use 8g of roller in my 115cc scooter but my top speed is decreasing .. So I use 10g and it is much better . My top speed in 8g is 85kph and in 10g 110kph . It have a big difference .
Do you know why? If you installed a tachometer it would tell you the whole story why 10g achieves a higher top speed than 8g.
FIFTYmil pls tell me y? I want to know. Idnt have tachometer
You will need to get one - otherwise you're just guessing and not tuning. A tachometer is only $5-6 and easier to install than plugging in your cellphone to charge!
FIFTYmil which meter to get? And what’s the purpose
$6 eBay tachometer. Read the engine RPM's
I have a Yamaha RayZR 125 bs6 and l wanna ram up the speed so how much weight of rollers should l use? Also should you suggest using Dr. Pulley rollers instead?
Could you tell me what RPM you are seeing right now while accelerating and also while you are at max speed? It all depends if you still under the powerband
@@FIFTYmil at max rpm l got only 7.3hp
@@felixv2432 Thank you, and what rpm do you see what accelerating?
@@FIFTYmil l think its 6
any tips for me i have gilera runner 50cc sp what best roller for it ? i'm on heavy one for now but when i test it on pick i mean not moving i ruch 11 rijme meetter but on rode only to 9 why and what i need to do to get it to 11 ( sorry for my bad english)
Find the published Peak horsepower rpm for your gilera runner (On the piaggio website?). Install a tachometer to see what rpm you see while full throttle accelerating. If the RPM is below the peak HP rpm, reduce the weight. If its above the peak hp rpm, increase the weight.
@@FIFTYmil thx for replay but its hard to find part to replace my broken speedmetre i only lay on rpm like when test it without moveing its up to 11 but on move only to 9 and if run on full speedp its drop rpm to 7 and half or 8 i'm really try to make it faster as i can lol
Yassine freeman get a $6 tachometer, wrap it around the spark plug wire, and tell me your rpm locked in during acceleration and also at top speed.
Can you please update the links dont work any more
Where did you get the variator holder tool
In japan, but the same or similar one can be bought on ebay for a lot less money.
I need help, I was going to take off my v-ring, and I don't know how I'm going to put it back
Send me a picture. Which part of the scooter are you talking about?
Sorry for that m8! i wos just a little tired ^^ So never mind my last comment :D Just keep it up!
No worries!
Moopawababy
Exactly!
and you are confirming what i said.the 2-3 cluch springs are for adjusting engage rpm of the clutch.and as you know they make sets with color code and different tension strength for the same model.some models have adjustment as you also probebly know.why? do they not matter at all?god luck with that.he he .cant help you with your sences.have fun
Probably something lost in translation...
if you are saying that there is 2 curves in the powerband tork curve and hp curve.if you dont agree it is fine.do you know how much a horse power is?(the formula for hp).do you think you have learnd all there is at your age.?to get most of the transmision range it should engage the chlutch and there by the wheel where the tork peak is at max.and axelrate from there to max hp wich is at topp rpm.i ask you this once more.do you want the chluch to engage at max hp as you sad.then you are also saying that you will run the engine at max rpm with maybe around 500rpm to go before the redline for the engines rpm is reached. also saying you like to axelrate from zero to 10kmt 20kmt .(depends a litle on what is left for the belt to climb on the front pulley before it is stop.if you say that to figure out the hp number you need tork times rpm to find hp.that should give you a hint how importent tork is.if you know how they messurerd one hp or more the formula..one hp is;lifting 75kg one meter in the air at one second.that is one hp.to start the lift and get it done in a sec the tork is the most importent.answer instead or say exatly what i am wrong in?have your sense with you today.if you dont care about tork thats fine for me.
hp is a product of tourke times rpm divided by a number.different number if you use metric system or pounds
The guy is showing you the results he is getting on his own scooter...if you are getting mad because you don't agree with his tuning then ignore it. Why the squabbling? If you know better then make your own you tube vids. Think about it....you are raging over a strangers tuning method? Why do you care? If you know better then your scooter will be faster. Interesting videos no matter what
Amen to that. I must remind everyone that these videos document what I did to my scooter based on what I know about scooter tuning. Coincidentally, I experience significant performance improvement. However, these are not instructions on how to make your scooter faster as everyone has different needs. Please remember to keep this in mind while watching them!
I've got a vespa s50 2stroke. Same engine as yours.After watching your vids I upjetted from 53standard to a 66,changed rollers from standard to 5g and fitted a Leo Vince zxr (without the aid of a rev counter). Its a different scooter now. I've gone from an unrestricted 38/39mph to easily burying the 50mph speedo. No need for the 70 kit I was gonna fit. Its running well and reliable so far. Your videos certainly helped me make my scooter a lot more fun to use.
briggaskin I'm glad to hear that. Make sure to adjust the oil mixture screw and provide more lubrication to sustain the higher rpms ( to err on the side of caution)
If anything its running a bit rich at the moment and that's with stock air filter. I didn't adjust the needle but as its running rich I don't think I will change too much now. but as you say I would rather a dirty plug than a heat seize.
The oil mixture adjustment is found underneath the variator. I didn't realize until this winter that you can adjust for more oil/cc of fuel giving you extra lubrication. Many companies suggest Piaggio/vespa tends to bias on using less oil for a cleaner burn. Increasing the amount of oil into the chamber would be good insurance. My bike is stored away for the winter but i definitely plan on doing that come spring!
What I mean does all rollers have big holes and small holes
hey there, your videos are really useful! I have a kymco agility city 50cc moped and it is slow at accelerating from stationary. however after some time it reaches a decent top speed of nrly 40mph. It has not been modified at all. I'm looking for my moped to be quicker at accelerating and more responsive, what would you recommend doing? I don't mind sacrificing top speed. thanks for your help or anyone elses!
Max, I would determine where peak power is made on your engine (usually a rough number is reported on the manufacturer specs), and try to either increase engine horsepower or more economically viable change the roller weights to approach peak RPM power for an easy direct approach. You can buy roller weights at this affiliate link rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5575244884&campid=5337989730&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D16x13%2Broller%26_sop%3D15
The exact weight you need is entirely dependent on a number of factors, however. Normally, however, most variator weights come slightly heavier from manufacturer for improved engine reliability, longevity and efficiency. Choosing weights that are 1-1.5grams lighter is a conservative approach for slightly better acceleration and top speed at the cost of making the engine work harder and without any other mods.
Ok thanks a lot for your help!! One last stupid question, I'm not very good with mopeds, why do I need to know the peak power? And also would an improved clutch spring or whatever make my moped more responsive? Thanks again
CVT transmission allows an engine to operate at a fixed RPM across a continuously variable gear ratio. Unlike a conventional manual transmission where you have a fixed gear ratio in each gear, with a CVT you deliver the same amount of power across ALL gear ratio ensuring the best fuel efficiency in stock factory settings. If you tune your transmission to operate at peak horsepower RPM, they you ensure that the gear ratios are being realized with the best acceleration/top speed.
Stiffer clutch engagement springs is equivalent to reving your engine higher before engaging the clutch. This will allow the engine to reach peak horsepower quicker, reduce chance of bogging the engine down when power is insufficient, and that could be perceived as making the moped more responsive. I do not find them that helpful because they tend to put more stress and wear on the clutch
This gentleman knows his stuff! It's a pity that the presenter of the vid used 'thicykthumper' noise as a backdrop, making it a really unpleasant experience.
Sorry.
will it consume more fuel if i change it to lighter variators?
Yes lighter rollers if less fuel efficient.
What the size for x22gt 250cc automatic motorcycle
Hey I am from India.
Here in the scooter/moped the mechanics put grease in the variator rollers is it right?
I am facing handle vibration on my Honda Activa 110cc
Some models of bike do require lubricating roller weights from the oem service manual. I am not familiar with the activa but make sure you check whether the grease is required. Many mechanics do things without actually consulting the original service manual.
@@FIFTYmil thank you
No ... It is not right.. !! I've experienced the same.
Would it break the bike if you put lighter rollers in a standard variator?
Phazar no but it does make the engine work harder for enhanced performance
FIFTYmil okay thanks
roller weights have nothing to do with speed. It only is a variable in comparison to the established clutch spring tension as to when and how the centrifugal clutch engages.
MrGreenelight oh really? How do you define speed? For me it is the sum of acceleration and top speed. In that sense, you would suggest changing roller weights alone and keeping everything constant will not change acceleration nor top speed at all?
Speed is defined as distance/ time is is a ratio of distance traveled in an amount of time. Changing the weights alone would not increase the speed either.
As is in many other things, it is not one thing that changes the overall results; but a combination of several things that yield a result. In this case it is a combination of the relationship of the roller weights, spring tension, roller plate angle, engine RPM range and weight of vehicle and rider, these things are all mechanically" tuned" to work together to provide the optimal performance in its intended application.
More than likely, You have upset that balance and actually decreased the performance of the vehicle.
MrGreenelight I agree 100%. The balance of any vehicle is always upset with modifications. You never gain a net improvement without sacrificing somewhere else. The bike was optimized from the factory with a balance (or more accurately, a compromise) of the best fuel efficiency, acceleration, and top speed for the average weight rider in the average environmental conditions. Therefore, one who rides a lot uphill in rainy climate would tune his/her bike completely different from one who rides a lot of downhills in a dusty climate, for example. What I am doing is tuning the bike to perform in my specific environmental condition for my weight. Fuel efficiency is given almost zero thought in this case study. For someone who wants their 50cc to optimize fuel efficiency, the tuning would again be completely different. From your perspective however, the weights of the roller weights can not be changed alone without making other changes to the transmission if I understand correctly. My experience so far suggests otherwise.
Therefore, we'll take your word on the statement: "Changing the weights alone would not increase the speed." In the next episode we will answer that statement. Stay tuned! ;)
Your comment is exactly why I document each change I make to the bike alone in each episode - ie. to understand the improvement and sacrifice of each modification alone holding everything else constant.
FiFTY mil, it appears that you may have a better comprehension of mechanical principles than I original gave you credit for in the regards of applications/design intent for an environment or situation. That is great; However, I think that in this case you are you are still a little off base.
The area of the drive train that you are tampering with only has to do with the "clutching effect" (the engaging and dis-engaging) of the rear wheel to transmission (variator). Basically, just like adjusting the clutch cable on a manual shifting Motorcycle or car, which only effects how the clutch "bites". the top speed and acceleration is dictated and controlled by the engine power and gearing.( the gear box and differential ), .
Your scooter as well as mine does not have a gear box. It uses a "variator" better know as a continuously variable transmission to adjust gearing ratios.
In overall, you are tampering with the wrong device to try and re-balance your acceleration or top-speed.
the variator is the component you should be changing out or replacing weights, springs, etc. not the centrifugal clutch components. To reduce confusion, the variator is the assembly closer to the front of the bike in which the drive belt is attached. The automatic clutch assembly is on the same axis as the rear wheel at the rear of the bike in which the drive belt is attached.
You should modify the variator to attempt to get the effects you desire not the clutch assembly.
Good Luck !
Fiffty. I stand corrected. After I watched the video again, you are dealing with the variator. I am sorry, I may have drank one to many beers last night. I apologize. You are doing the right thing.
can u tell me the diameter of the pulleys of the variator and clutch belt pulleys ? Thank you
We're hit with a -40 degrees C cold spell here. Snow everywhere. I'll try to get the diameters for you as soon as possible!
thanks
I just bought a 2019 Zuma 50f with (the grocer's balance says) 5,7g rollers. And that 'infamous' 1 mm washer inside the variator.
I'm NOT a big fan of CVT mods, after all the guys designing these things probably know what good enough is all
about, hey.
But still... I have a set of light 4.1g Polinis here...hmmm....what would happen if I use them (for theoretically better
acceleration) AND remove the 1mm thingie (for theoretical higher top speed) ??? Would that poor 50cc clockmill
just drop dead ?
Takes me about ten minutes to tear it apart, but I'm not going to mod it before I hear from you guys (I've already opened it up just to have a look at the grease amount on the clutch bearings --- have seen some near bone-dry in the past).
Very nice video, my idea of a fast little monster (but I'm gettin' old).
Thanks for the compliments.
The assumption that the designer knows best for cvt tuning holds true to a certain extent. CVT tuning however is user specific and that's where performance can be "found." The designer sets the CVT up for a compromise of the best fuel mileage and longevity at the cost of performance (acceleration and top speed). By moving this spectrum, more performance can be found at the cost of greater fuel consumption and adhering to stricter maintenance intervals.
The answer to 4.1g varies depending on the bike, rider weight, and the amount of power the engine outputs (at the 50cc category, even climate changes or altitude changes could be significant). For that reason, it is best to install a $6 tachometer to monitor engine RPM's and adjust the CVT as necessary by means such as changing the weights.
@@FIFTYmil Thanks for your answer. Think of it now, the hr.counter/tach already fitted to my yam generator I'll just transfer to the little slow poke and see what gives with the
different combinations. I will probably go back to oem settings but hell, this is fun innit !
Again, very well done video of yours. I can't help but love that scoot !
Is it okay to put 8g rollers to my 115cc engine?
Need to know RPMS to tell.