The UK's First Dutch Style Roundabout - Is it Any Good... Maybe...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- #cambridge #infrastructure #roundabout #driving
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Cambridge... I dunno.. they seem to have all the "bright ideas" when it comes to solving transportation problems. They do love a bicycle in Cambridge it's fair to say, which is no bad thing. The problem is they keep getting run over and in this video we look at a roundabout that promises to solve this. But I'm not sure if it does.
Love the almost-but-not-quite "You Spin Me Round" at the end 😄
Jon has many interests. Car, music, films and fashion.
@@djsmitheBridges too
Feels like the taxpayer is the one who got spun around from that million pounds of extra costs.
gotta avoid the copyright strikes somehow 😅
@@Dan23_7 And railroads but I think that's a fetish.
As an English guy living in the Netherlands that looks like a pretty decent attempt at a Dutch roundabout (apart from all the extra road markings). It's also worth reminding everyone that the Netherlands wasn't always like it is today. They had to work hard at building infrastructure that worked, one roundabout at a time. Throwing down one roundabout in Cambridge wont work; you've got to do this for every roundabout.
How many billions?
@Rozmic how much do you reckon it cost to turn us into a driving nation rather than a horse/train riding nation? And for what benefit?
@@Rozmic Ah the perfect English reply: "OOOOOOOOSS gonna pay for that, then?!"
@@Rozmic I would imagine not so much extra than it would be to renew the infrastructure as it came to the end of it's life-cycle. It wasn't a case of replacing everything at once, just that when something came of an age it would be updated to the new design standard.
Problem is every roundabout is used by cars, can’t say the same for cyclists.
Seville showed how to get it done. You don't start by putting in perfect and expensive isolated bits of infrastructure - you start with a quick and dirty network across the city, and then improve sections bit-by-bit. That's how they increased the cycling rate from 0.5% of journeys to 9% of journeys in just a few years.
Before anyone says it, it's nothing to do with weather. It rains more, on more days, and is colder in winter in Amsterdam than it is in Cambridge. Or even in Edinburgh.
Helps when you have the EU (aka Germany) pay for it....
So another Brexit win@@ckm-mkc
@@ckm-mkcThe Netherlands is the third highest net contributor to the EU budget.
And nationally they mandated cycle helmets, which...? Yes, I know, contentious. Sorry.
I've flip-flopped over the years. 70s/80s as a kid, no helmet. 90s cycling to work, helmet. 00s/10s volunteering/working for Cycling UK (CTC), no helmet, because of improved knowledge on some shortcomings of their design, particularly rotational impact. 20s helmet, with Mips (Multi-directional Impact Protection System), which has its own Wikipedia page.
@@PhillipBicknell thanks will look it up. Context is important, I lived in China and the Dutch I worked with refused (initially) to wear helmets despite the vastly different driving standards between the Netherlands and China.
I lived in central Birmingham for a year from 2022-23, and the new Cycleways on the A38 and A34 were absolutely brilliant to get around. I could get to work, the shops, and any leisure facility that I needed without feeling like I was going to be annihilated by a distracted driver doing 40mph.
Oh also the mrs felt safe enough to ride her bike alongside me, which is one of the best bits about good cycling infrastructure. Hopefully we can build a lot more of these roundabouts across the UK!
You get what you build and you build what you get.
Most of the cyclists we see are the lycra clad drop handlebar bikes because they're the only ones who are confident enough to cycle on the road.
When people realise they're not going to pancaked by a car or lorry, cycling becomes an attractive option
@@thomaswilliams4543 Absolutely, I'm personally confident to ride in mixed traffic - however very few people that I know would risk it.
No wonder most of our cities are infested with cars, people haven't got any other good options.
Lots of references to 'Cambridge Council' should be to Cambridgeshire County Council. The Cambridge City Council hasn't got any role in building roads.
@dbivuk Yeah but apparently all councils are useless, contemptible and corrupt and section 106 levies are 'bribes' by property developers so I'm guessing that no-one in this little bubble of the internet really gives two hoots about the nuances between different parts of local government.
We have those roundabouts all over here in Denmark, except most of them have a blue painted cyclist lane, instead of red. :)
Do cars give a shit about them, eventhough we are known as a cyclist-friendly nation? Not at all!
It's wery hard for danes to turn their eyes and head to the right before exiting a roundabout. Speed is also a high factor for accidents!
Over here in NL we MUST give a shit. Why? Because when you as a car driver hit a pedestrian or cyclist you will be blamed and hed accountable for it EVEN when ou are NOT at fault. This is regulated in a trafic law in which cyclists and pedestrians are classified as 'vulnerable road users' which gives them increased legal protection.
And cars, trucks and motorcycles are not...
The effects?? We motorists see pedestrians and cyclists rounding those roundabouts with NOT A GD CARE in the world. Most stare straight ahead without seeking eye contact. others even stare at their PHONE! (which is a trafic violation all on its own)
That's why we as motorists make BLOODY SURE that we don't hit anybody when entereing or exiting the roundabout!!
As if dane car drivers would have ever given way to anybody...
@@jfv65 That's true in most US states as well, but it doesn't make any difference.
If the UK used blue it may not have cost £2.2million?! Might be where were going wrong.
Have a look at the "shared space" & Dutch style roundabouts in Poynton, Cheshire. Completed and running from 2012. Crazy concept when you first see it, but it works so well.
I had to traverse that during rush hour once and was so confused. I think these things work in principle (and perhaps with practice) but as someone passing through it was terrible.
We must have been there on different days, whenever I've had the misfortune of the one on London Road the local Wankpanzer drivers are even more downright deadly than usual
Yeah......try riding a Motorcycle over those stupid brass 'Buttons' in the wet.
The system in Poynton is utterly useless and always blocked up. Moreover, pedestrians frequently step out into the road without looking as they think it's now the drivers' responsibility to avoid hitting them.
@@caino3003 which it is, to be fair.
We've had one in North Tyneside for a year or two now and it's great to cycle on. Two downsides: 1. cars still have little idea about giving way to cyclists, I've had lots of close calls! 2. The cycling infrastructure connecting to the roundabout isn't protected or existing so you have to cycle amongst the speeding cars to get to the 'safe' bit of infrastructure.
This is the biggest issue with UK infrastructure. It's all well having these or cycle lanes on high streets, but you need to be able to get to them safely!
Pretty sure somewhere in the highway code it says the bigger and more expensive vehicle has right of way. Or at least thats how it feels riding a bike & driving a small car
Big difference is that in Netherlands cyclists must not use the road if there is a cycle path.
I've no issue with that being implemented in the UK, but once the cycling infrastructure is as good as the driving infrastructure.
If there's a half arsed cycle lane with parked cars, dangerous drain covers and a give way at every side street, I'm not using it.
That's only on specific roads, not the case in a town centre
That only applies to bike lanes that are on roads, so is irrelevant here.
If you ever see a cyclist riding on the road when there's a bike path or lane, it's because the infrastructure is shit.
@@shm5547 Yeah it only applies where there's a bike lane on the actual road, not to segregated infrastructure as in this video. People love to believe and recycle things they wish were true.
Cycle lanes in the UK always make the road too narrow to be cycled on. Achieving a similar outcome. 😢
As someone who, until I got too old and crumbly, regularly rode a cycle, I think that design, whilst well intentioned, will probably cause as many accidents as it prevents, because with the best will in the world I don't imagine that that many UK drivers will understand (or indeed obey) the rules on them. It's not going to be much comfort, when you are hit, to know that the car driver who got confused, and ran into you, was guilty of breaking a rule that they probably didn't understand properly. So if these are ever going to work, I think we are going to need a bit of driver and probably even cyclist re-education. I do get and support the general intention... I just don't think particular iteration will actually work that well.
Just adopt our liability law as well. Here in the Netherlands, you are by default at fault if you drive the heavier vehicle. This makes the people driving a two tonne metal protective frame a lot more scared of the cyclist, which seems fair given that one has a small dent in their SUV, and the other party involved has been spread out over the asphalt over some minor confusion.
Although I must admit, putting so much pointless road marking makes stuff confusing as hell.
I've been following some of your videos for a while, did not expect something Dutch to come along in your videos (I'm from Dutchland myself). I did not even expect to see this roundabout as the example "Dutch roundabout" but expected the so-called Turbo Roundabout" which in my sense take's some time to get used to but once you understand how this type of turbo roundabout works it's way more pleasant to drive on than our 'typical' lay-out you just shown us in this video. Keep up the good work by the way and greetings from the low-lands!
The Turbo roundabouts always have 2 entry lanes. I dont think the road is wide enough to do that here.
I used to work in incident management for the telecoms industry and its no surprise that a bunch of unexpected pipes and cables where found. Usually the first time we would hear of the civil works was when a digger ripped up one or more of our fibres. And this is why costs for road works can baloon quickly as the contractors have to pay for the damage to the network.
My first thought when I saw the location was "what's the point when you have to cross the waking nightmare that is Hills road 200 yards further on?"
You have to start somewhere
I’m working in Cambridge at the moment and there’s a mad world of electric scooters with the riders having headphones on and watching their phone while going the wrong way round the traffic and not looking anywhere so a 38 ton truck is just behind them and they don’t know it
Those scooter riders should soon get filtered out.
Next step: adequate policing/monitoring/whatevering of cyclists who are, invariably, the biggest prats on the road/pavement next to jumped up "lads" in their black hatchback with an auditorium's sound system in the boot.
Saw one using the pavement instead of the two-way cycle lane on the other side of the road, another went through red lights and across a pedestrian crossing as it went green, and I often have to make way on the pavement for them. Also so many bikes being used in the dark with no lights or reflective attachments.
Ahem. Little rant there. This is an interesting idea but I wonder if it's over-engineered? I imagine that drivers would initially find it overwhelming.
You saw a cyclist use a pavement instead of a cycle lane? Wow. Thank goodness no cars help themselves to the pavement for inconsiderate parking, dangerous parking, driving at inappropriate speeds for the conditions in built up areas, thank goodness cars aren't the single biggest cause of head injuries to not just pedestrians and cyclists but also to car drivers. Definitely those cyclists being lax with the rules that need the harshest penalties.
Site note about a cyclist crossing a road not in accordance with pedestrian crossing lights/rules - have a think about how we treat jaywalking in this country. When there's no inconvenience to a driver, we really don't even blink if a pedestrian runs across a road. Why does an equally unprotected little cyclist rolling across, out of everyone's way, suddenly warrant such clamour? Cars, sure, they're typically over a tonne of metal box with momentum and often speed well out of proportion with "people", so it's a different matter. But cyclists? No, we must just blindly hate on them because ya know, England.
I saw a motorist driving in excess of the speed limit the other day. Why aren't you condemning all motorists for his actions?
@@mLyonJE You're obviously one of those bad cyclists who is constantly a danger to pedestrians and now offended that people like you are being called out
to the over-engineered part: this roundabout is severely under-engineered in my opinion. I haven't studied infrastructure at all, but I guess living in the netherlands has made it abundantly clear why some roundabouts work and others don't, and this fits firmly in the don't category. Biggest issue is the almost 90° turns you have to make on the cycling lanes, that's not how people move.
to the overwhelming part: it's a lot simpler when you're on car-level, as you can only see the important parts of the roundabout, similar to the magic roundabout in swindon that's wild from above and just 3 mild turns from ground level when actually driving. The most overwhelming part of it for me was the excessive amount of lines painted on the road
Yep, you come to Paris, and it looks like cyclists do not have a a concept of traffic lights, including the ones for pedestrians. London cyclists are not much better either. Once in the City last summer it took me 4 light cycles to cross a road, because cyclists would never stop even when I had a green (it was also one of the lanes where cyclists go both directions that I had to cross before crossing the street - so you had to look both ways in order not to be overrun. When you reached the part with the cars, you felt that you made it and now it is easy :) )
honestly looks like a lovely roundabout, they need to make more of them, looks way better than most I have seen around in the UK, that for my low portuguese standards sometimes are even worse
The roundabout is great, it's just going to take a wee bit of a culture shift.....but looking promising.
It's probably going to initially result in a lot of cars queuing up on the roundabout, blocking everyone else, until they twig you shouldn't enter if there's a car waiting for cyclists at your exit even if there's no oncoming vehicles to give way to. Also that if your exit is clear but the other car is waiting because their exit is not, you *can* enter even if you'd have to give way to them on a normal roundabout.
@@Croz89 How do you see your exit over the head high weeds and bushes on the roundabout, or predict its situation in flowing traffic? It's a stupid idea designed to push people out of their cars.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle Well obviously, it's designed to prioritise people on foot or bikes over people in cars, which is objectively good policy for a town or city.
The video shows short grass and plants so I've no idea what you're talking about.
@@gordon1545 Of course you don't know what I'm talking about it's outside your bubble.
Plants grow and councils are useless. This means they obscure the view across the mound.
@@I_Don_t_want_a_handle On top the guarnteed non-gardening of the greenery, how can you even see back and left of you in your mirrors? And in a van?!
You didn’t mention that as soon as it opened the road tarmac immediately started breaking up and had to be relaid. Also if you’re in a van with no rear side windows then as soon as you’re on the roundabout you have no chance at all of seeing if there is a cyclist about to cross the exit you are about to leave the roundabout on
that's why there is space between exiting the roundabout and encountering the cycle and pedestrian crossing area.
that space gives you the time to exit and look around for any oncoming cyclist and/or pedestrians
@@ChristiaanHW Not when you've got other traffic up your chuff, who are highly likely to just drive into you if you do as you are supposed to. Just because you stopped doesn't mean you'll stay stopped if someone shunts into you from behind.
@@KidarWolf so because drivers can't follow the law, and stop where they need to.
they deserve to be the king of the road?
seems to me to many people are able to get a drivers license then.
if people can't/won't follow the law of the road they don't deserve to drive a car.
@@ChristiaanHW Yes, too many people do get licenses who shouldn't, absolutely.
I have to take my 44t artic that way every now and again. It’s terrible to try and get round. You also have to block the crossing and cycle way due to the length of the truck. This is supposed to be the ring road main route!
My first thought when I saw it was "that's going to a nightmare for anyone in an artic".
There’s barely a car length between the crossing and roundabout as you say.
So even in a car it’s impossible to use both safely and legally. I can imagine it would be horrendous in an HGV
So to stop a proper distance back (tyres and tarmac) without illegally blocking you in theory would need to give way before the zebra… which is obviously far too early to commit
That middle finger at 2:19 😂
It's just personal I think
0:08 It might be because I'm Dutch, but he 'give way' triangles on the cycle path before the pedestrian crossings look upside-down to me, and one is missing.
And what's that random 'left turn lane' symbol pointing towards a path for pedestrians.
Those aren't give way triangles, they are markings to show there is a speed bump.
@@ado543 Ah, that explains.
In NL, triangle shaped markings on the ground only serve one purpose as far as I know.
Speedbumps have their own dedicated markings.
@@Jeff_P-1988 I think solid triangles on the ground are only ever used for speed bumps in the UK, give way is a double dashed line, or a single dashed line at roundabouts and zebra crossings.
As a cyclist who uses this roundabout almost daily - it's not that great. It would work well in theory. However, the problem for cyclists isn't a roundabout, it's the drivers on the roundabout. Unless you stare into the drivers soul, they will just plow into you.
I think you summed it up when you mentioned many councils adopting this as a solution. This has been common practice with highway authorities for decades; they find a solution and apply it whatever the problem, or lack of a problem. It all started with gyratory systems in the 1970s imposed in nearly every town, usually incorporating service access routes creating conflict with service vehicles and a barrier to pedestrians.
We don't just have Dutch roundabouts in Cambridge, they've started doing some positively daft stuff where cyclists and pedestrians utilize a roundabout around a cross intersection, which is just bananas, to be honest. A whole lot of money spent for no fundamental improvement over what had already existed, and with roadworks continuing on the main road the intersection is situated on, it hasn't increased throughflow at all, just a massive waste of time, and space, and destroying what little green space we had in that area in order to do it.
It's worth noting that as of the most recent highway code update, DVSA consider both the entrance and exit of a roundabout to be a "junction" and under the new heirarchy of road users, motor vehicles should yield to pedestrians wanting to cross when both entering and exiting a roundabout.
(As an aside, "junction" isn't actually defined in the code, and when pressed the DVSA original responded with the dictionary definition before confirming, yes, you do have to yield.)
You might like the one in Colchester, you can go both ways round it 😊
And has mini roundabouts on it as well.
As someone that works at one of the colleges in Cambridge, I can say that Cambridge is indeed doing a big push for furthering the number of commuters cycling to and from work (look at the Greenways project if you want to see that) However, they kind of started that just before Christmas, cleared up the bits they were doing before the holidays, and haven't resumed anything (at least not to my knowledge) so I can only assume there will be massive delays going into and out of the city for years to come. (In a year or three)
Cambridge was always big on cycling. The was not much where you could drive to in the city center even before. Even I did my share of Cambridge cycling in the early 90-s. No bicycle lanes, weaving through the traffic on a wrong side of the road. Screwed up my head forever :)
0:29 The Highway Code, published in 2022, makes it clear that drivers SHOULD give way to pedestrian crossing the road at entry and exit of roundabouts (and at any other junction). The 'Dutch' roundabout makes that mandatory (a MUST in HC terms).
As a Dutchman, i think one of the problems is that there is only 1 of those shait roundabouts. In NL we're used to these clusterfucks. I guess we have less accidents because everyone is aware that cyclist come from any direction, at any point. Up under left right and through. Cyclists know they have right of way (and are protected road users in any case) and abuse that.
Often, because of the shape of a roundabout, cyclist are not easy to spot, or they magically stay behind the window sill.
Also, in many cases there are actually speedhumps (or the whole roundabout is slightly raised) so cars must slow down before entering.
In any case they're better than the British super roundabouts. Those are just a disaster 😂😂
I'm a cyclist and a motorist, by far my favourite cycling infrastructure is when the cars and the bikes have walls and or bollards to stop us crashing into each other or completely different routes! This roundabout relies on the cars spotting the bikes... Even dressed up like a giant reflective Christmas borble it feals like i'm wearing an invisabilty cloak some days! And others activly a target on my back.
This sounds a lot like Swindon's "Bus Boulevard" except:
A) It's been delivered already,
B) The ground survey in Swindon was so botched that even Thames Water didn't know where their mains pipes were, and
C) Cambridge's Roundabout hasn't nearly completely bankrupted the council
When I first saw 'Dutch Roundabout', I thought it was a new position...like a Dutch Rudder, only more bendy?
Very nice red decoration, but do you know how I cross this by bike? Right in the middle of the lane, like all cars - much safer and faster.
These were first tested by the TRL UK Transport Labs on an old runway with bolt down kerbs in 2013 so it's good one has finally been built. They will only get safer as more are built and drivers get used to them, but I do think they are quite unlikely to be built en-mass in the UK as they require a lot of extra space: you're talking a 2 or 3 lane roundabout converted to a single lane one, which then loses a lot of motor capacity even if it encourages active travel and improves safety (per active traveller).
I've seen a few proposals for roundabouts trying to copy this design since it was finished but most of them miss the point, adding parallel zebras to huge 40mph roundabouts with multiple planes and straight sides to encourage high speeds. Adding zebras here will be lethal for peds and cycles. Better to incorporate the highly successful CYCLOPS design (would love to see a video on this) from Greater Manchester and other areas which allows high capacity motoring with entirely protected pedestrian and cycle movements.
well done tovarish, excellent stuff, superb delivery, keep up the good werk. i'm the owner of a recumbent trike (with camper trailer), i live in the people's republic of hackney, London E5, dont make it to cambridge much. i shall stay tooned, all da bst.
This will never work fully until we also have the traffic laws that they have in the Netherlands, which protect cyclists: Primarily, although all road users are encouraged to respect one another, a collision between a motor vehicle and a cyclist is deemed to be the motorist's fault, unless they can prove otherwise.
Presumption of guilt goes against common law. Once should not have to prove innocence if there is no evidence against them.
@@PointNemo9 But there *_is_* evidence: a cyclist in hospital.
@@SpiritmanProductions That is not evidence of who was at fault. A cyclist will likely be in the hospital no matter who was responsible for the collision.
This roundabout is 2 minutes from my house. It was only last month I got hit by a car whilst cycling round (ironically I was going to the hospital)
You should have mentioned the roundabout 2 junctions to the N (Birdwood/Perne/Radegund) which was the first _Dutch_ _geometry_ roundabout in the UK. So no special cycle facilities, but it did have the narrow circulating lane and tight approach angles which intrinsically reduce speed. That r'bout proved that Dutch geometry worked OK in the UK (of course it does - we have the same physics and vehicles), and paved the way for this one with the actual cycle/ped priority a few years later.
I live within about 300m of this thing. It's a huge improvement over what was there before so to characterise it as making 'no difference' is a bit harsh. I agree it's not reduced the collision rate as much as was hoped, but it has increased the number of active travel users and it has _transformed_ the experience of either walking or cycling here (hence the increase in users).
Getting 'zebra-crossing' type priority whether cycling or walking is a revelation. You do have to keep your wits about you when negotiating it in a car at night, but that's the point really: there was always a small risk of squishing someone walking or on a bike at a roundabout exit, but now drivers actually have to think about these crossing points, and take it slowly. Some of them don't like it.
The really sad thing about the r'bout is that none of the 4 roads connected to it has decent cycle lanes so it really is an island of good infrastructure surrounded by medocrity at the moment. QEW was supposed to get some in 2017 but they got nixed by the local residents association. We should be getting lanes on the two other roads in the next 2-3 years as about £10 million has been allocated for a major revamp of the shoddy 1990s cycle lanes on that corridor. I hope to see QEW improved as well at some point before I die of old age - it could be _so_ much nicer.
Given the changes to the highway code a couple of years ago that mean we're all supposed to give way to pedestrians and cyclists at junctions (which roundabouts are) anyway I'm much more likely to risk doing so where it's so clearly marked. Until now I've only been sticking to it on approach to the roundabout rather than exits, or if it's extremely quiet (no risk to someone hitting me up the rear while i wait to exit), and in that scenario it doesnt really save any time for anyone anyway as i couldve just cleared...
Yeah, the rule for giving way coming *off* the roundabout is stupid in many ways. At least on the approach to a roundabout you are naturally slowing down, and the roundabout only works smoothly when there is no congestion on the roundabout itself, so getting cars to stop on it is madness (light controlled roundabouts are different in this respect)
This rule does not apply to roundabouts as they are classed separately from junctions. The rule says you should be aware of pedestrians crossing rather than having to give way to them.
I like roundabouts, or rotunda (Rotonde in Dutch).
They generally give a lot of flow for cyclists and well, since we have more bicycles than human beings here, that really makes a big difference.
We used to have a crossroads near me without traffic lights and such. Apparently it caused quite a few minor accidents, though I haven't witnessed almost any and I've lived here for over 25 years, but that aside.
This crossroads got turned into a rotunda in recent years and I have to say that it feels so much better as a cyclist.
Generally speaking most car drivers show respect for the cyclists, with some bad apples here and there but that's the same with everything, really. But I think the biggest benefit for cyclists happens when there is a network of these types of rotunda cause it drastically enhances the flow of bicycle traffic.
Oh and one small note on this rotunda: It seems like the car lane on it is quite a bit broader when comparing it to rotunda in my area in The Netherlands.
The inner circle of the rotunda is generally broader here than what I am seeing in this video. It is slightly sloped, to deter car drivers from using it but not sloped enough to prevent bigger vehicles, like transport trucks and public transport busses from using it to make smaller turns.
Even more local councils will soon go bust, spending all that on a roundabout.
Nah, they have a never ending money pit ... our pockets.
I live in Cambridge and have used that roundabout before and after… we have a council here that is all anti motorist and wastes money… this roundabout a case in point… spend our money on fixing potholes and EV infrastructure, etc…
You need to come to Sheffield! Many road oddities. Including a very Dutch roundabout currently being built!
I sometimes have to make deliveries in Cambridge and given that it is supposed to be a cycle friendly place, the traffic queues going in from any direction are ridiculous, literally miles.
Looks really good. Always room for improvement, but certainly this is the direction we should be going.
Safe in the knowledge that you're sitting in a nice solid car
Would be interesting to see if then severity of accidents has decreased, despite that the number of accident did not. That is one of the reasons we dutchies started copying roundabouts over here some 40+ years ago. The number of accidents did not necessarily go down, by the number of fatal incidents did.
And I bet the cyclists still ignore the safe cycle path round the roundabout.
I'll take that bet. Watch the video, all cyclists I see are on the safe cycle path.
It’s a fine system in the Nederlands where cars and cyclists have co-existed for decades. In the UK the car is king, some drivers will not even stop when pedestrians are crossing at a zebra crossing. Today a bus ( a rather large vehicle, that can carry 70 plus people) started to enter a roundabout the only car approaching was entering the roundabout in the left turn only lane. The car driver accelerated, swerving across into the right lane cutting the bus off. A lot of car drivers think only about their phone’s and getting a jump ahead.
I live in Cambridge, have lived many years in the Netherlands and Belgium and I sorely miss the infrastructure. When I first moved to Cambridge from NL I was actually scared of cycling.
It's been very funny the past few years seeing people lose their shit at this roundabout 😂 the UK is still a very car-centric country, and it'll take a while to change people's perspective.
I didn't know that these styles of roundabouts weren't common in the world. I live in the Netherlands and every roundabout that's on a street where pedestrians and cyclists cross you, we have these kinds of roundabouts. We also have markings and traffic signs to indicate that the cars need to stop to let the cyclists and pedestrians cross first.
Hopefully this will result in less traffic accidents with cyclists and pedestrians.
The nice thing is that it doesn't slow down traffic, because our country is so bike friendly we have less cars which means there's less traffic in the first place.
Having these kind of roundabouts encourages people to bike rather than use the car.
There is currently a 'dutch style' roundabout being installed in Heartsease in Norwich. It's more compact so will used mixed use paths but will still hopefully be better than the deathtrap of a roundabout that is currently there.
Classic Cambridge City Council
I hope we get something like this on the roundabout by Brighton Pier, it's an absolute mess there.
It is widely agreed that the safest types of roundabout are single lane ones with single lanes on entries, exits and circulation. The most dangerous are multi lane. Which do we build most of in the uk, and which do we build the least of? Yep, we go for multi lane even where traffic volumes or the lane widths don’t justify it, just because of our antiquated design standards.
At least they now know what cables and utilities are there.
As a Dutch person, i think it's almost perfect, but I think you're planners mirrored it.
Jokes aside, looks like something you could find over here inside city and village boundaries
The theory behind a Dutch roundabout is fine, the problem is fitting it into a UK roundabout sized gap and expecting it to cope with larger vehicles. I can confirm as the driver of a vehicle type that is more commonly found in Dutchland that getting round this tight. For the record its an 8x2 rigid with a triaxle trailer running at max length of 18.75m
Got one in Swadlincote with pedestrian crossing on three of the entry’s and exits. It’s a pain, especially as it’s raised so you can’t see till the last min pedestrians using the crossing
Springfield rd, Midland rd, Union rd and Newhall rd junction
Southampton has a similar system on the west side of the Itchen Bridge which had also been hit with a lot of criticism (along with the continual criticism of it still being a toll bridge)
Dutch guy here. It looks like it should.
Of course people need to learn to use it well.
Sorry about the insane cost
When they are common, I can imagine that this style of roundabout will help cycling safety. Currently, when I cycle around the roundabout I am always wondering if the motorists have any idea where they should be looking. Still, I have survived so far!
Oh, and that red tarmac seems to last for about a year before turning into a rutted, uncomfortable mess.
As a Dutchman I never thought Dutch roundabouts are a thing. Funny fact is that roundabouts are declining in the Netherlands. Governance are switching over to the classic traffic light situations.
Living in the Netherlands I was wondering what you meant by Dutch style roundabouts. Yes, these are just roundabouts here and you just have to be aware that cars are not the only road users. Generally I think these are great but in some cases we have bidirectional flow of bikes (in fact very often) and that seems awkward.
looking at it the roundabout has 2 main issues:
- a lack of visibility, it is difficult for cars to see bikers coming from a distance, makinng it difficult for them to react.
- the curves of the roundabout are too wide, enabling cars to drive faster than the speed limit and and again reducing reaction time.
if you want a cyclist priority roundabout to work, they need to have clear visibility for the drivers to see which cyclists they have to stop for, and you need to build it in such a way that you force drivers to slow down, be it using speed bumps or sharp curves.
For an area of the UK that most closely mimics the Netherlands in terms of topography, there is not exactly a large number of priority users. I saw four cyclists and three pedestrians in the moving footage, but thirty cars.
My brother, who lives near this, tells me that the Dutch have apparently stopped new Dutch Roundabouts because they don't work as well as simply enlarging the roundabout to slow traffic down that way, and it's a lot cheaper solution.
I like the idea of separating cycles and cars at roundabouts as a friend who cycled was killed by a car driver on a roundabout. This would be a good idea if people followed the Highway Code at junctions and motorists gave way to cyclists and cyclists gave way to pedestrians. However I doubt that many road users have picked up a copy of the Highway Code in years!
this works in the Netherlands cause its both common, and people are used to always give way to cyclists, unless its a traffic light controlled cycle crossing. this will only work as well here in the UK if the same mindset is applied, which unfortunately just isn't here yet.
As a semi-regular user of the roundabout in question its not that bad if you know how its meant to work. The biggest problem is fitting so much in such a small space - that layout IN the Netherlands works because there's space made for it.
Apparently there's planning work for alterations to the neighbouring roundabout featured, which is a major route in/out of the city and to the hospital, so we'll have to see what happens there 🤷♂️
I almost got killed cycling around this roundabout. I was approaching one of the crossings and a driver accelerated to exit the roundabout before having to stop for me. More like she aggressively cut me off. Luckily, I fully expect motorists to behave like toddlers and I slowed down enough not to get T-boned, but it was close. There needs to be harsher punishments and more accountability for bad driving in this country.
That outro music gives me PTSD!
If you frequented the internet around 2005 you'll understand.
ahhh... yes. I remember now.
We had something like this in Bushey (Hertfordshire) was the roundabout for Aldenham Rd / Bushey Hall Rd / Bushey Hall Drive. It did not last long. Quite a few cyclists got hit.
Not just bikes has entered the chat
Why does only one of the exits have a give way sign?
Also, having been a pedestrian in both Cambridge and The Hague several times, Dutch cyclists obey lights and signs and generally ride slower at hazardous places. English cyclists seem to lycra up and go for Strava records!
Because on that one side, the zebra crossing is separate from the cycle crossing (due to a driveway), so the cycle crossing has standard give way lines. The other exits have combined pedestrian cycle crossings, so give way triangles are not allowed.
I’ve only been to the Netherlands once but it’s the only place I felt safe on a bike! If this helps, then great!
Ah so now were not only expected to stop on the approach to a roundabout, but also expected to stop on the exit...I see this causing massive traffic jams, theres a roundabout near me with crossings on all sides and the traffic is horrendous juring school times.
As a Dutch person: This type of infrastructure only works when car drivers are used to them. You can have all the markings and flashing lights in the world, if car drivers ignore them and just plow through the crossings, accidents keep happening.
I feel as though once several of these are in place in the same geographic area that people will both get used to them and the safety numbers will improve. But it will take a while. It does look pretty in any case. For 2 million nicker, it absolutely should.
I've seen thousands of cyclists in Cambridge, and been one on a number of occasions.
All the cycling that I remember from Cambridge has been utility cycling, and I don't ever recall seeing anyone cycling in Cambridge in Lycra. You shouldn't have wheeled out that tired old trope.
We could do with some of those in Spain. In Costa Blanca we have several areas that are used by international cycling squad training. Driving can be a complete nightmare.
Do we drive around these Dutch roundabouts anti-clockwise like they do in Holland? Have you seen the Hamburger roundabouts in Slough? There are two of them and SatNav mis-directs drivers on how to use them.
Not even checking if there are cables and utilities underneath indeed sounds quite stupid. I love your sarcastic narrating
Whatever council is in charge of Battersea in South London did an even more half hearted job of it at Queens Circus Roundabout. As someone who has cycled, run and driven through the old layout before the "improvements"
They have of course made it worse and more confusing!
Sadly one of the first deaths to occur on the "improved" version was of fellow TH-camr Emily Hartridge who was on an E-Scooter when she was hit!
One day Council road planners will be obliged to use all forms of transport that use an area for a minimum of 10 journeys so they can ACTUALLY understand what works and what needs tweaking BEFORE they start digging holes in the ground paid for by the taxpayers!
Reading some of the more eloquent and experienced commenters here, I quite agree that this seems like an island in a raging sea - what about linking to other 'islands'? Cambridge at least has the Netherlands' type of topography, so is relatively unhostile to the general idea of cycling. If the great-and-good planners want things to be as per The Netherlands, they have only to stretch open their dons' wallets and pluck out more....(I was going to say Green money, but we stopped having pound notes a while back - clever idea that was, replacing cheap paper with less-cheap metal...). Not much of Britain is so benignly flat, hence we don't cycle much (outside of Cambridge, anyway).
Having visited The Netherlands, the cycling culture is not even that - it's just the way life is. Everybody cycles. The infrastructure is all there to support it, possibly helped by getting considerably damaged 80 years ago and getting rebuilt exactly to suit? A remarkable country, considering the space constraints, the scale and productivity of agriculture and the engineering excellence that has been pulling land out of the sea for centuries. It's like the opposite of the USA - I've always thought that if I went to live in the USA I'd become horribly obese, but if I went to live in the Netherlands I'd be much fitter.
I once dated a bird from Cambridge she worked at addenbrooke's hospital, that's my useless fact 😂😂 great video Jon
Hope you check out the Greenstead roundabout(s) in Colchester.
This seems like a place with tourists in mind
Dutch guy here. Although these roundabouts are proven to be safer, in a car, it takes time to build the mental picture. There’s a lot going on when you approach these roundabouts. When I’m on a bike or walking, I’m always very cautious. There’s always the occasional idiot driver who doesn’t give way. Bonus: collisions are mostly at low speeds.
We have to start somewhere. As long as it’s a trend that continues in Cambridge the overall infrastructure will be improved. Considering the number of cyclists in the city it makes sense.
Good point about the incident rate remaining static. If the number of pedestrians and cyclists using it has increased significantly then incident rate remaining flat is a good thing.
The spiralling cost of implementation is just indicative of our government’s inability to manage infrastructure projects.
Oh dude my home town! So glad you covered it! Fucking ridiculous the whole thing especially with all the vegetation to block the drivers view.
Don’t proceed until you can see… 🙄
@@apuldram that's the point though. You can't see! If something blocks your view then how can you???
@@ozbolli see where your coming from, but say it’s a foggy day, a real “pea souper” do you just drive as normal? No you adjust to the conditions.
@@apuldram yes I hear you. But I promise you, as someone who has lived, worked and driven over this roundabout ever since it was built, that the vegetation really does block your view. I can't understand why you don't just take my point. Have you driven over it?
@@ozbolli no but do occasionally try and cross the road, as a pedestrian, where drivers do have an unrestricted view… 😱 Location/context is key here… and as suggested not necessarily the best.
these should be mandatory for all new towns/estates etc.
As a cyclist who cycles defensively at all roundabouts, I love this. I just hope that people actually obey the road markings
Oh my lord! the local council muppets started digging this when I worked in Cambridge in 2019 (before we abandoned the office in March2020 for COVID). HOW MUCH did this cost?? Great video, btw!
When you add bureaucracy to any projects you will find that it will take an unfeasibly long time due to multitude of reasons and an ungodly percent more than predicted.
Oddly there are lots of roundabouts in the actual Netherlands that don't use this ring path layout.
I had to laugh out loud when I saw the rest of the road that it's connected to. The 'cycle lane' is just a paintstripe on the edge of a main road, which is practically useless for safety. Thankfully with the new roundabout (which doens't have raised bumps for the cycle lane, practically the most important feature of this design) cyclists can be safe and separated from cars for the ~30 seconds they have to use the roundabout, after which they can get back to being in loads of danger.
You have to start somewhere, it is better to start at the junctions as most accidents happen there
they are awesome.. I'm in the netherlands, and they work really well..
0:59: Council text - “Being a compact and flat city…”; no it absolutely is not. Loved there for 3 years and went out with a girl from New Hall, the college sited right at the top of the only hill in the entire place. Had to cycle up that hill time after time…
I'm from Cambridge, this roundabout has caused quite a few accidents. I have used it on a couple of occasions and you are just bombarded with information and people coming at you from all sides, it's a nice idea in theory but it's radically different to every other junction so nobody has a clue what to do including the cyclists.
Well it not only dutch because of the design, also the costs. Building projects are always exceeding the costs here. I do like they put the roundabout there