You got #1 completely correct. When was the last time you saw one???? Also, I remember visiting Canada in the 90's and seeing the Pontiac Firefly (aka Geo Metro)
Had an older lady come into my parts store looking for parts to a 1994 tempest. I said ma'am you must have that wrong and she took attitude with me. I go out to have a look and there sat a Chevy Corsica in a Pontiac costume... Silly Canadians.
I think you nailed it Adam, even the ordering of the list is about perfect. I would have also given honorable mention to the FWD X-body Phoenix. The Lemans was downright horrible; my friend test drove one and it broken down on the way back to the dealer.
@@joe08867 our family had one too, although it was a Skylark not a Phoenix. Bought new and was a disaster from day 2…blown transmission at 9k the most notable. Glad you had better luck.
Great video Adam, your first 3 vehicles on your list were so nostalgic for me. I was in high school all through the Aztek run and I was hobestly somewhere between intrigued and indifferent, I do remember all of the reviews and placement in shows We had a Montana SV6 through my teens and early 20's. I remember the cowboy commercial showcasing that it could seat 8 and dad said it had more horsepower and torque than his 86 Firebird. I remember the G3 as the Wave here in Canada and my Aunt had a G5, my cousin picked me up in it summer of 09 to go work with his uncle.
As you have mentioned, Pontiac was a leading GM brand in Canada, outselling Chevrolet from time to time. The Astre was quite common here, moreso than the Vega. I was in high school at the end of the 70s, and my friends and I were hot rodders then. One of my friends picked up an Astre for the effort of towing it away. It had sat for quite a while with a blown engine and had fairly low miles, and aside from the engine was not in bad condition. We found a 283 Chevy motor & powerglide transmission from a 60s Chevelle and picked this up for $100. The motor ran excellently, and the transmission was fine, and a little more scrounging got us a set of 327 "camels-hump" 1.94" intake valve heads, a 4 barrel carb/manifold, and a NOS 327/350 HP camshaft for another couple of hundred dollars. All of this went into the 283, and the 283/powerglide went into the Astre. We had a muffler shop make up a dual exhaust system and install it, and had the radiator recored and enlarged as big as we could make it and still fit.The most expensive addition to the car was a narrowed 12 bolt axle that he bought from an unfinished race car. This had a streetable 3.73 posi gearset. I think this cost another $400. All in, it was about $1400 in 1980 dollars plus a lot of sweat equity. It was easily one of the best low-cost hotrod projects that I ever was a part of. This turned my friend's Astre into a really quick and fun to drive car. The 283 took to the Astre like a duck to water. In fact, it was so good that we were amazed that GM had never built something like this. How easy it would have been for them to do it! I think now that the Vega/Astre was a harbinger of what was to come for GM, a succession of poorly designed and poorly built cars that with more effort could have been great. The "Le Mans" on this list was a horrible abuse of a great name, and associating this name with such a bad car is an excellent way to drive loyal brand buyers away. The Montana, the G3, and the Aztec are so uninspiring for a brand that porports to "build excitement", it's no wonder that sales fell so much that the division had to be axed as part of the bankruptcy. A sad end for a once-great name in the automotive business.
@mikalnaylor A 454 Vega would be quite a machine! I recall reading about 454 Vegas in magazines and seeing ads for Motion performance kits, but I never saw one in the flesh! I have seen 305 Monzas that were warmed over. They were OK, similar to my friends car, but pretty smogged up in stock form. However, none that I saw would rev like my friend's 283 with 327 cam/heads and 3.73 gear set. I reckon that a 305 Monza would have all the bones to make a very similar car, especially with a 327 or 350 swap.
Curious, was the Early Asters (pre '74) also built in Lordstown? I toured the plant in '74, did not see any Astres there & never knew they existed until their introduction in the US (even living this close to Canada). I know now many Chevys were rebadged as Pontiacs in Canada/Mexico over the years due to some divisional corporate marketing conflict.
@@mikalnaylor FYI...... GM 283, 305, 307, 327, 350 and the most rarest '68/69 302ci Z28 'Zapper'.....other than main bearing caps and crankshaft journals to say the least, all of these small blocks were basically EXACTLY the same blocks!
I never thought the naming strategy G3 G5 G6 G8 was a smart move on Pontiac's part. It just seemed the lower the number, the cheaper the model screaming frugality. Always better to have tried and time honored stand alone model names imo.
Ditched the names for cars that weren’t its own but more so a world car i.e. Saturn Aura Saturn Astre Pontiac G3 Pontiac G4 ect. The end of the run for Saturn and Pontiac was bleak but was a different route than Oldsmobile.
@@LongIslandMopars It was great. Analogue MFI Isuzu Turbo Diesels are some of the best Diesels ever made, in that era. Third only to MFI Peugeot, who is/was second only to Mercedes. They were underpowered and smoky, but they were highly tunable with a Turbocharger, and were great for running on waste vegetable oil, especially when rigged up with an inline Bosch MFI pump.
@@stoneylonesome4062 Cool. My thesis back in 2005 was on biodiesel. Better than waste veggie oil as long as you had a means to refine it. I thought about doing a home refiner setup but at that time everything that was an old diesel skyrocketed in price. I wanted a 300TD wagon but those were ridiculous. A friend of a friend recently picked up an early 2000s 1.9 TDI Jetta (no emissions garbage). I want it when he gets tired of it.
@@LongIslandMopars I have an old 83 W123 300D Turbo coupé*, used to be my father’s. Half a million miles on original engine and the same manual 5-speed that was swapped in before he got it. A lot of those miles were run on vegetable oil. He bought it used at UGA and had hippy friends in Athens who had some contraption rigged up in someone’s shed that would filter the bejesus out of WVO from the local restaurants in town. Works perfectly with it. Although, if I was gonna do a vegetable oil experiment, I’d probably go buy an old Isuzu or something like that, and if I wanted to get a classic Mercedes Diesel, I’d probably wanna avoid ones that were used as WVO experiments. Unfortunately, a lot of people assume that because they’re fueling their car for free, that they don’t have to perform any maintenance on it, which isn’t true, obviously. And I’d avoid Volkswagen Diesels; even the ones pre-emissions regulations have timing belts and weak head gaskets. If you can’t afford a classic Mercedes Diesel, MFI Peugeot Turbo Diesels or MFI Isuzu Turbo Diesels are your next best options.
European GM, Opel built very good small cars. But American GM didn't have clue how to build small affordable cars. They just built something, not even halfway decent car. Vega and Astra were worse than Soviet Union Ladas.
I met someone who bought one of the last couple years of the Astre/Sunbird wagons, with the cast iron engine, and he actually drove it for 30 years... 🤷♂️
I am throwing in my 2 cents. I had several Vegas in the late 70's. Started with a notch back version. I always thought it would make a great looking convertible, except the frame would have to be heavily modified . The main 4 banger problem I found was the head. I rebuilt a couple of the engines, and the aluminum blocks looked pretty good. Doing valve jobs on the head ? It took a few o find one with out a crack in it, where the oil burning was coming from. Rust ? You could hear it rusting on a quite summers night. I bought some for parts, and the rust was simply everywhere. The undercarriage seemed to be heaviest hit, by the rear end trailing arms. All in all, it was a fun vehicle to drive. I even fitted a couple with Buick V6's using factory Monza parts.
I think you made good choices for this last, Adam. I only have a bit of experience with an Astre. A friend had one in college. It was well kept, 6 years old and the white interior plastics were turning to powder, and it was like riding in a rock polisher.
All those Mid 70s-Mid 80s GM cars had plastic that turned into powder. You could just use your fingernail on the plastic and scratch it to hell easy, plastic would just turn into powder, just AWFUL plastics.
@@clemsonblokeYep I remember doing the fingernail scratch inside my ‘82 Chevette, and thinking if I kept going I could scratch right through the door panel. Parts that were most exposed to sunlight got deteriorated the worst.
Only Pontiac I owned from new was a ‘79 Parisienne Brougham. Pretty comfy ride. Inherited a #4 Montana. Exhaust manifold was going and the van went shortly thereafter.
Best friend's older brother had an Astre SJ when I was growing up and I thought it was pretty cool. Certainly the interior seemed more interesting and better trimmed than the typical Datsun, or ubiquitour Corolla of the tme. Couldn't say anything about it as a car, but with Pontiac rally wheels and a stick shift it seemed neat to my 13 year old eyes. Later, however, I drove someone's 77 Vega and was completely unimpressed - my same year Accord was a much more fun drive - even with the crappy 2 speed auto. As for the Montana - geez, I'd forgotten it existed. And the G3 escaped my notice entirely.
I still have and drive a 1999 Montana (as a second vehicle). I use it for hauling model airplanes all over the place. It has been a great vehicle, and has needed very little maintenance. I'm going to look for something a bit bigger to replace it, and am gonna hate having to fork over $40-50k to replace it... 😔
I think Montana was a step backwards from Trans Sport, which was much more advanced. Too bad the original Trans Sport concept wasn't realized, (apart from that funky steering wheel with 100 buttons).
@@MarinCipollina Yes, they went "backwards" on the Second Gen. From a source @ GM the original U bodies were an "experiment" with the space frame & composite panels. My H body Bonneville had plastic fenders, though not all of them did of the same year.
The Aztek always looked to me like two of the Korean Lemans hatchbacks stacked one on top of the other like dogs initiating a breeding act and all wrapped in the cladding. Practical, maybe, but irredeemably unsightly.
Hi Adam, funny and ilustrative survey on this cars line up. Vega based Astre model, had a sporty look, hatch back two door, some Euro stylish one as well, and so sad that had the infamous Aluminum engine, smart idea but bad reputation as you`d mentioned in video. I wonder why Le Mans model, marketed as Daewoo Racer/Cielo in South America or Daewoo Nexia to Euro market, failed at US subcompact field. In Colombia, those five door/hatchback units (the only body style available, by the way), did perform very well, specially as taxi cab duties, reaching almost 200.000 or more miles before engine overhauling, and many of them are on our streets since 1992, 1.5 liter TBI injection and five manual speed transmissions. Thanks for video, and take care, man.
Every car my family owned was a Pontiac. My first car was a Pontiac (was not a hand-me-down but freshly bought,) so it broke my heart when 4 things happened. 1. They started gluing plastic on the car sides, 2. They became indistinguishable from other cars, 3. Pontiac started numbering their cars instead of naming them. Could you love a kid named 6? and finally 4. They stopped being American cars. Sacrilege, The GTO was made in Australia and even though you knew it wasn't, you walked away thinking it was a 4-door car. A Korean Lemans??? Pontiac's reputation became a Korean car brand... or so it seemed.
In the late 1990's I was randomly selected (and paid quite nicely) to be part of a serious design evaluation focus group that evaluated many features that became part of the Aztek and the Avalanche. Obviously they did not take my thoughts to heart as I made no bones about how horrible the proposed styling, inside and out was. It certainly sickened me to see Pontiac fold when it did. Many hundreds of thousands of miles I put behind the wheel of their products.
You can believe it or not but it's very true. Certainly not an 4 banger Astre but multiple Pontiacs. One was, in fact, a variant of the Astre made in Lordstown, Ohio in the old Vega/Astre plant. It was, a 1979 Sunbird wagon. It had a 231 Buick V6, Saginaw 4 speed, power steering. The only option was an AM radio. Bare bones nothing. Family bought it as a delivery wagon for the business. I was the only driver of it from the early 1980's through 1990. Went to the crusher in 1991 it had a documented 238,532 miles on it. Only time it left me stranded was when the electric fuel pumps crapped out.. Firewall stress cracked when the original clutch cable started to give out. Re-enforced it with a piece of 1/8" steel plate and never had that problem again. You knew when to replace it when your left leg started cramping up using the clutch. Drove a personal 1984 Sunbird coupe well into the 1990s. Other than maintenance it only died when someone smashed into it and totaled it. Also had a couiple of late 1970's Firebirds/TAs in the early 1980s. Not all they are now lauded for but, if taken care of, the 403 motor in them was decent and lasted. Add it all up, and it's "hundreds of thousands of miles".
The maintenance costs for the Vega/Astre had to have been low. As soon as anything broke, it was a mechanical total if they didn't rust away first. I remember my uncle buying a new Vega when I was a kid, and it rusted away, right in front of my eyes.
I'm going to go back in time. Back in the day, I had a friend who had an early 60's Tempest. He had the wagon version but I doubt it makes much difference. It was a _terrible_ car. It was 4 cylinders. One summer afternoon about 55 or 56 years ago, we fixed a rowboat to the roof and drove about 50 miles down the freeway. The meager engine, along with the air drag from the boat, made it necessary to drive at full throttle to maintain 55 mph.
If it was early 60's it might have been one of the interesting cars that had a platform relative in the Corvair. The Pontiac had front engine placement whereas the Corvair had its rear placement. There are some nice videos explaining the Pontiac, Olds and Buick versions.
Allow me to introduce to you my '78 VW van. It had a 2 liter (the biggest engine ever offered in an air cooled VW van, from the "Porsche 914") and with *nothing* on the roof it could do 70 on a good day. Going "over the hill" to/from Santa Cruz it could maintain 50 MPH with the gas pedal planted to the floor the entire time. If I got slowed down, well, that was basically the speed I was going to do until I got to the top.
@@brentlanyon4654 My friend's Tempest was not the slowest car I of which I had the misfortune of becoming familiar, way back when. That would be a friend's VW with a rebuilt engine. Your description of the VW bus's performance sound like the performance of my friend's VW bug.
@@randallanderson1632 Hey - at least they were completely unsafe! I loved that stupid van, but it was objectively a very poor performing vehicle. Driving across the Bay Bridge it would catch the wind like a kite!
Bought a 1974 Astre from an elderly lady back in early '80's when I was in high school. Had low miles, no wear on engine but had been parked on the grass so pretty rusty on the bottom. Did find ok to drive and got a few years out of it.
I've owned 3 of these 🤣🤣🤣 I had an Astre... it was actually fun to drive with the 4 banger and 4 speed. Oddly, I had very few issues with it during the 3 years I had it. It did eat some oil... not terrible, though.... maybe a quart or two extra between changes. I had a Montana.... boring but it worked... and I bought a G3 - called a Wave in Canada as a third car... mostly for my wife to use around town. They are among the worst, perhaps, but I definitely don't remember any unusual problems with them in terms of basic reliability. Exciting? No. No. No. Gotta say that my Astre was the most fun of these three, anyway. It was a '74 that I bought for cheap in '81 and drove until '84. It was for the bone yard after that. I love the memories that flood back while watching this channel. Good times!
I had a 76 Sunbird, the fancy version of the Astre. It had the aluminum 4 cyl, and Automattic Trans. Totally gutless. Used a qt. of oil every 900 miles. Front springs popped out of holders. Was gone at around 20K miles.
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The Chevy Vega. The first and only car to RUST on the showroom floor!
Rust was standard equipment 😅 l remember when AMC started doing Ziebart in house before the interiors were installed and Illinois sued them because they "weren't doing it like the Ziebart shops". Drilling holes all over.
Never saw a Yugo, did you? Crazy thing is, the Vega body was fully dipped in a galvanic rustproofing bath but the shape of some of the panels trapped air and kept the solution out of rust-prone areas that. ironically, tended to trap soil and road salt.
I heard the real quote was " On a quiet night, you could hear a Vega rusting out on the showroom floor." I grew up in a small town in N Mn. and worked at a Union 76 gas station. One of our customers had a dark green Vega he bought new. This guy swore by STP oil treatment. He pulls in one morning when it was -30 and wants me to put in some of that crap. Well, that stuff was like molasses on a warm day. So I went in the service area and I heated that crap until it was almost like water. Then I went out and put it in his car, shut the hood and said to myself, " there's your STP oil treatment you sob." Lol! If he thought I was gonna stand out there for a long time at those temps, he's out of his mind.
How the Vegastre didn't make top billing confuses me. It wasn't necessarily the lack of sleeves that made the engine bad; it was the open-deck aluminum block that caused the cylinder distortion and resulting ring-seal issues. Iron sleeves would've worked, but so would a closed deck. As for rust, I grew up in Las Vegas and saw my fair share of rusty rear quarters and hatches on Vegas. My friend's mom had one and the cowl had holes in it. It was a local car its whole life.
Bought a '76 Astre new in July of 1976(2bbl Holley carb and 4 spd Saginaw tranny).... made 5 trips across the US.... changed oil every 3000 miles(Quaker State).. other than shocks, tires, and batteries, only other repairs were timing belt, water pump, radiator, rear main seal, and rebuilt the carb.... sold it with 110,000 miles... NEVER BURNED OR USED OIL....It may have had the IRON DUKE engine as it was a late '76 build but I am not sure... it was still on the road in 1988 and it was not burning oil.... had it undercoated with Quake Coat Metal Guard when I bought it and it never rusted even after 5 of the 9 years were in PA and OH winters....
True. The '76 & '77 Vegas had the totally revised Dura-built version of the original Vega engine. It had near Toyota levels of durability: th-cam.com/video/WeP0HSJHBiE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tieCuOrAzJYS9Ch1
Pontiac was interesting. My mom owned a couple when I was a kid-- a 1978 Catalina that was basically bulletproof, and a 1989 Grand Am that I later inherited during its sunset years, and that thing was a piece of K R A P. I can't believe those things were so ubiquitous for so long, it was absolutely dismal. Rattly, loud, crude, and unreliable. The interior had all the ergonomics of a Fisher Price schoolbus.
My first car was a '76 Sunbird. The plastic brackets that kept the shoulder belt off your neck was mounted on the back of the seats and made of brittle plastic that had broken off long before I got the car. For years I drove leaning to my right because that's what I had to do to keep from choking. Then there was having to fill the shift knob with shoe goo because you couldn't find replacement knobs for a reverse "h" pattern five speed, which, speaking of which, ate through a clutch every 35,000 miles and eventually caused so much metal fatigue the firewall burst out around it when I was in law school. The "odd fire" V6 was bulletproof, though, if you didn't mind the rough idle.
@deliuslyndon8340 I was thinking the exact same thing. The quarters, doors, and front fenders of the 1st gen GAs would rust out quickly and severely, especially where the thick body molding rubbed. I seem to remember they had issues with the back window seal leaking as well. 2nd gens were sharp looking and didn't seem to rust *as bad* but had other issues. My '94 SE coupe was a gorgeous pos. That era had power window and door lock actuator issues, the steering column mounts would fail, fog light and tail light seals would fail and leak, among other recurring problems. Mine also had the 2.3 Quad4 which ran like a scalded dog, but had a bad habit of eating heads and head gaskets. 43k on it's 3rd engine when I bought it, (I was 21, it was my 1st "nice" car I bought myself, and didn't see the signs,) and I loved and babied it for a year and a half. At 67k it popped probably its very last head gasket and I sold it still running for what I paid for it. After the disasterous ownership of a very flawed Beretta GT a couple years prior, it was also the car that turned me off to GM for good. Those last gens were, in my experience, even worse. Lots of electrical faults, poor fit and finish, poor quality all the way around, and they rusted badly behind all that ground effect and body cladding plastic.
@@seed_drill7135 I had a classmate that had a 77 Sunbird Sports Coupe in High School in the mid-late 80's, he and his wife are currently rebuilding it for the West Coast Tour, It's the West Coast Hot Rod Power Tour of the West Coast put on by Motortrend Magazine/TV that's put on in the Spring. They are puting a V6 out of late model Camaro in it.
I was pretty certain that Korean LeMans would be #1. What was really insane was giving it the LeMans nameplate which was a pretty decent and iconic Pontiac back in the day. Sacrilegious.
I was born in 1990. For the first 6 years of my life the LeMans was often found at mechanics shops or broke down roadside much like Mazda Protégés and VW Fox’
I agree, my Mom owned a 76 LeMans Sports Coupe and that was a cool ride. For Pontiac to slap that name on a poorly built foreign car, was a disgrace to their heritage.
Adam- Totally agree with Pontiac/Daewoo LeMans in the #1 slot, especially having owned a 1967 LeMans. I use to visit Vancouver BC in the early ‘90’s and would see many unique Canadian Pontiacs like the Firefly (Geo Metro), Sunburst (Isuzu Gemini, Tempest (Chevy Corsica), and of course vintage Acadians and Beaumonts. I was a little disturbed by the Tempest, but loved the name (not the car) Firefly.
A 1977 Astro with a 2.5 iron Duke was one of our first if not have First vehicle, I distinctly remember being maybe two 2 1/2, sitting in it, but I’ll never forget the distinctive choo-choo Choo Choo Choo sound that a cold cranky 2.5 L Iron Duke makes when turning over. Sold it for $100, it had over 400,000 on it and rusted through floor pans. It was a good wagon. Otherwise, my dad‘s words hell I think the Astra was one of the most reliable vehicles I own. That’s saying something for a rebadged to Vega, that I forgot to mention above also survived the 1984 memorial day flood. Let it sit for about a week, drained everything, and had it going again.
6:39 The Pontiac G3 didn't have different headlights or tail lights from the Chevy Aveo, only the front bumper was slightly tweaked which incorporated the Pontiac grille and slightly restyled lower air intakes which also housed the standard fog lights - Otherwise there were no differences aside from Pontiac badges and the bulbs for the dashboard backlighting being changed from green to red.
Thank you for sparing the Fiero, Adam! It usually makes these sorts of lists (often in the form of junk click-bait articles with all the wrong facts), but I trust you would appreciate the innovation that went into that car. Having just attended the 40th anniversary celebration last summer in Pontiac, MI, there are plenty people who were on the design team / factory floor still around willing to speak and/or be interviewed. Perhaps a topic for a future video? 😉
Eh. I'm curious what innovations you mean? I always felt they were a big let down. I'm curious what you like about them? Certainly they did get better with the V6 and what not as time went on.
@@Andyface79 Mainly the space frame with the urethane body panels. Using that they were able to easily produce what became the first mid-engine 2 seat American sports car and was better engineered than the Corvette. With Chevette front suspension and Citation rear, it was still able to out handle it. In 1988 when it finally got its own suspension, was when it got the hammer for good. It was controversial and debated whether Chevrolet caused that or not. I'm leaning towards they did, because they already had the 89 Fiero design ready to go, and in not to waste that development money, used that design for the new 93 Camaro/Firebird. That is why their front engine was up under the windshield, and they look like they do. A plant was built solely to produce the Fiero, and when it was axed, they used it and the space frame concept to produce the new Saturn division of cars.
@@Andyface79 Sorry I missed your question. Like another noted, Pontiac developed the car (somewhat secretly) to include an innovative steel spaceframe construction and unstressed plastic (not fiberglass) body panels. The car was fully functional/drivable w/o the body panels. This innovative approach allowed for rust-free & dent-resistant bodywork. It also afforded inexpensive styling changes from year to year if needed. This technology was later used in the 90s for the original Saturns and "Dustbuster" minivans, among other GM vehicles. The spaceframe was extremely strong with built-in side impact beams and roll cage protection. At it's introduction, Fiero was the 2nd safest car in crash tests behind industry leader Volvo. That says alot. In addition, Fieros were more comfortable & spacious inside than competitors like MR2, X1/9, and even GM's own Corvette. Headrest speakers ensured amazing stereo sound while the optional underdash factory subwoofer provided a hint of bass. The driver-centric floating gage pod became a feature in many future cars. The parking brake between driver's seat & door sill lay flat when engaged to ease ingress/egress. The fuel tank was located in the center of the car (under center console between passenger seats) for crash safety. The sunroof was removable and stowed in the front compartment for a nearly targa-like experience. All trim levels came standard with 4-wheel independent suspension and 4-wheel disc brakes. The only let down was the powertrains (especially the original Iron Duke 4-cyl w/ 4-spd), although that could be said of many cars of the era. The engine bay was originally designed to accommodate larger motors. Test mules at the time beat the snot out of Corvettes, so GM axed those plans. I could go on... Today, there is a large Fiero community that supports all kinds of powertrain swaps, mostly using newer GM hardware. GM's 3800 V6s and LS4 V8s are quite common ways to achieve 300-500 hp where only 90-140 hp existed previously. Not much on the road can keep up with a swapped Fiero 😉
I bought a Vega GT hatchback in 1975 as my first new car, I looked at the GT version Astre but their was about a $300 price difference and on my limited budget I bought the Vega which I got a much better deal on. Mine never rusted (nor did the 75 Vega my mom had) nor did I have any real issued but a fuel pump at 22K miles go out. I put 128K on that car in 5 years and traded it for a Monte carlo and I saw it still running 2 years later so who knows how many miles it had. Never burned oil and even the clutch was still good when I traded it. Mom's 75 was still going until it got broadsided in 1982 and right where the gas filler cap was so insurance totaled it but it was still running when it went to the junk yard.
I would like to have a Vega. Most of the unrusted Vegas got a v8 swap. Its hard to find a decent Vega, but I do find Pintos for sale, but prices aren't dirt cheap anymore.
Agree 100 percent with number one. I was a mechanic at a Pontiac dealership in the early 90s, and when I drove and worked on those Lemans' my thought was always " what the..." is this piece of crap. I'm surprised Adam you complimented the looks of them, I always thought they were ugly
1965 Pontiac GTO - I had one - great car if you treated it right! Now I have a 1987 Pontiac Fiero V-6 5-speed manual mid/rear engine. It's quite an interesting car - now being restored from 'rat-rod status. I estimate about 3 years to completion. I knew a Catalina convertible once too.
Nothing bad about the '76-'77 Astre. Had the Vega Durabuilt engine with 60,000 mile warranty. Comfy seats. Decent ride comfort and quietness. Superb handling. Available 5-speed with overdrive tranny.
Ugh. My first car was a Pontiac Lemans. Fortunately it was a '74 Lemans. I remember when Pontiac came out with the "new Lemans" years later I thought they should never have re-used the Lemans name on that piece of junk. 🤣
Good thing they made the Astre with sleeve motors. so, I was able to replace my 74 seized Vega that had all aluminum cylinders. bought it from Vinnies Salvage from Camplain Rd. back when Harold used to work there. 😆
I'm not really a car guy, but when I was a kid and my dad was shopping around for cars, I fell in love (because children know what's important when buying a car) with this Pontiac 6000 STE he was looking at. And I may have been SO infatuated with it that he actually wound up buying the thing. It was...one of THE worst cars my parents ever owned. That thing was in the shop more than I was out of school. But hey, I did love that digital display showing which doors were ajar.
The Pontiac 6000 was only the Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Celebrity. Both are acknowledged to have been very good automobiles. Your parents just got a lemon.
Here in Canada we had the Acadian - the sister to the chevette. I’d bump the Montana for it on the list - really miserable little car (especially with the diesel) and it was ridiculously designed compared to the foreign competition.
I knew a lot of people that owned those Chevette based Acadians when new. It was a cheapo, not particularly refined car, but they were cheap to buy and did the job they were asked. A buddy put 300,000 km on his without any major issue. Still a few of them around as daily driver's here on the West Coast...
My vote, the 96-2005 Grand Ams. These cars were the top selling pontiac and they were garbage. Garbage interior, poor handing, unreliable, didnt drive sporty AT ALL. Yet gm sold tons of them with cash on teh hood and to fleets driving down resale value for owners and thus gms rep too in the process. It has since been replaced in the market by the nissan altima as the fleet queen hairdresseer trailer park special. So yea these were bad not cuz they sold poor but cuz they sold well.
This is an interesting list. And I think it plays to a common theme that keeps reoccurring at GM. The divisions through corporate management often suffered from a constant changing of direction without keeping track of the soul of the particular brand. Pontiac soul USA slightly upscale sportiness, performance and a driving satisfaction that employed a good looks, decent comfort and not econo car roots and bones. Every time they strayed from that focus, sales declined. Pontiac still has a strong presence in the collector car market with its GTOs, Firebirds, Bonneville, Star Chief, Catalina and a number of its Grand Prix models. I think one of the most overlooked special cars were the 61 through 63 Pontiac tempest and Lemans models. Where else could you get an American sedan with 2 or 4 doors, a convertible, V8 engine, a rear Transaxle with either an automatic or a manual transmission, 4 wheel independent suspension, limited slip rear end, power steering and brakes and even air conditioning. In the early 1960’s. What a stirring launching pad for the upcoming 1964 Pontiac GTO! And down the road, the Firebird Trans Am with that famous screaming chicken hood decal!
I thought that the Pontiac Phoenix would have made this list for sure. I owned one of these in the late 80's/early 90's, and it was my winter beater. I had studded Town and Country tires up front, which got me around pretty good, and a good heater. That's all the good I can say about the Phoenix.
I miss ‘60s era Pontiacs. Adam is correct… just beautiful designs, particularly the mid-60s. In later years, the “ribs” cladding was so overdone and just made the cars look like plastic. I did have a ‘93 Bonneville SE as a company car that I liked.
Also the 04-06 GTOs (aka the rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia) was never beautiful nor good looking as the GTOs from the 1960s or any Pontiac from the 1960s.
@@CJColvin Conversely, the Holden Commodore rebadged as the G8 was great looking and a superior sedan… later revived as the Chevy SS which sold poorly as a Chevrolet but I believe could have succeeded as a performance Buick.
@@Primus54the Chevy SS was a contractual obligation by GM to Holden after Pontiac was sunset. That is why they didn’t sell very many, and GM didn’t necessarily want to sell many. They also made the Caprice version for fleet sales (cop cars).
Transport/Montana situation...It likely was for financial purposes and something many manufacturers have done over time. When the Nissan Stanza transitioned from a "tweener" model sized between Accord/Camry and Civic/Corolla classes to a direct Accord/Camry competitor they wanted to rename it to change the image. In the last year of the Stanza there was a small "Altima" badge on the trunk. When Honda introduced the CRX it was originally designated as "Civic CRX". Apparently licensing and testing requirements are reduced in cost doing it in this way. At least it used to be. I sold '80's Hondas, that's why I was familiar with CRX and Stanza at that time. In some way it helped avoid some standards that were different between carryover and newly introduced models.
You know while watching this it made me think about my childhood and I remember Grand am's and Grand Prix everywhere! They were so popular from the late '80s to the early '90s to the late '90s and even into the mid-2000s. Most of them had that 3.1 l V6 which although it did not make a ton of power was pretty doggone reliable. Along with that 3800 and even a 3.4. I really really miss those cars. You don't ever see them anymore unfortunately.
My worst car ever. Everything went wrong including the front drive axle disintegrating in a 7 Eleven parking lot. I still remember seeing the ball bearings rolling out from under the front of the car.
It really is a shame that Pontiac fell into the GM small car dump. GM built small economy cars as a stop gap and never thought building a small quality car was necessary. Honda was a company that changed that market in this country.
people like to say, “we’re better at building bigger cars” or, “we’re good at big V8’s” but truth is, we’re just not as good at building cars in general, as Japan or Germany. When Japan came out with bigger cars with V8’s at the end of the 80’s-early 90’s, they smoked us. Heck, Camrys have been the most common model name in the top 5 finishers at NASCAR for the past 10-15yrs!
@@richgallagher725 The V-8 that Toyota uses in Nascar is a special design used only for racing that has nothing in common with their production DOHC V-8s. And the Dodges cannot use Hemi based race engines. In truth all Nascar engines are not production blocks but based on the architecture of production engines (bore spacing etc). Except as noted Toyota. As to build or engineering quality. Quality doesn't start on the factory floor. It starts in the front office. And the front office is dominated by MBAs, lawyers and accountants.
My first car was a Tangerine Red over Pitch Black 1977 Pontiac Astre Formula. It was an awesome and beautiful car. Black cloth bucket seats, body color matching alloy wheels w Chrome beauty rings, ASC glass Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo. It had the more powerful and much more dependable 2.5l Iron Duke tech 4 with a factory Holley carb. 4 on the floor, Rear spoiler, black out headlight surrounds, and “Formula” blazer across the bottom of the doors. I loved that car. So to see it on this list is completely bogus in my totally biased opinion. You should have found some crappy, over-sized, under-powered ‘70’s land yacht to put on this list,like a Tempest or something, but NOT my beloved Astre.
Confusingly in the UK the 1980s Opel Kadett / Pontiac Le Mans was badged as the Vauxhall Astra (with an 'a'). They were pretty good, if uninspiring little cars. The Astra name continues to this day the UK as a small 'Vauxhall' hatchback.
GM was famous for the super cold AC Delco A/C systems back then- maybe the large A/C compressors is why.. which doomed the little LeMans. The 88-93 LeMans wouldn't be so poorly remembered now if they hadn't called it "LeMans". That name was for a nice intermediate/midsize coupe, not an "as cheap as possible new car" options. As far as "at the time", the biggest issue with the 88-93 LeMans for owners was part supply. I remember hearing stories of people buying a new LeMans and waiting weeks/months for a part to fix it from South Korea. GM was totally blind sighted by the reliability issues (due to lack of proper testing on their part)... but even then they should have known to have a part supply in the US for that new car. Also also, gas prices stayed cheap in the late 80s and early 90s, which fueled early daily driver truck and SUV sales. A just slightly more expensive Pontiac Sunbird was WAY more car, offered a way better highway ride, and still got good mpg. They were also reliable (in non-turbo form). Oh.. and I'll add on to the list. For model years 82 to 85 Pontiac sold the Firebird with the 2.5 "Iron Duke" four banger. That's right- Pontiac sold a 90 hp four banger Firebird in the Knight Rider KITT style. 90 HP! 3250 lb curb weight! 0-60 in .. eventually.
Totally agree, Adam. What a shame that the once great Pontiac Division ever even considered putting their name plate on these losers. You begin to understand the demise of the brand when watching this. Great job, as always.
Thanks for this one, Adam, but my personal "worst" Pontiac built was the T1000 (Chevette, later simply '1000') with the diesel engine. What a disaster that thing was. The 1.8 liter 51 horsepower (38kW) Isuzu diesel wasn't available with air conditioning. They were such a tough sell that there was a $1000 ($3145 in 2023 dollars) minimum to the salesman that sold one.
The Pontiac T1000 was called the Acadian in Canada. The Acadian was introduced in 76 along with the Chevette but was only sold at Pontiac dealers in Canada. American Pontiac dealers wanted a small entry level car to sell and asked GM management for this car and finally got it in the early 80's but it was sold as the T1000.
the chevette to me was the worst, so slow it was like going backwards along with all the engine pinging. the diesel was probably better than the gas engine.
@@MarinCipollina the gas powered one was just as bad, watch the motorweek road test and see the how slow it was. couldnt even get to 60 in the quarter mile.
The Le Mans was built until 2008 in Uzbekistan as the "Uz-Daewoo Nexia" with a mild facelift, but the firewall back it was identical to the 1984 Opel Kadett.
I got 3 out of 5. And nailed the ‘80s LeMans as number one. I think J2000 and X-body Phoenix should have made the “top 5”. Lots of badge-engineered stinkers for Pontiac!
The air filter issue of replacing the whole unit is kinda like when you have a newer gm suv like yukon or tahoe and the brake light goes out and you have to buy a $900 lens assembly for the led brake light
Canada loved Pontiac, as you said, which got us, amongst others, the Pontiac Sunrunner. I suspect the Suzuki Vitara is the most badge-engineered vehicle ever. In Canada, in addition to the Suzuki and Pontiac badges, it also existed as the Asuna Sunrunner. We also had a Pontiac version of the Chevette called the Acadian long before there was the Pontiac T1000.
Adam, do you know if the Astre was shipped the same way as the Vega... standing on its nose in tall train cars? I assume since it's based on the Vega, it probably was.
I've never heard of the Montana! It would have cried out for a HANNAH vanity plate. My biggest beef with Pontiac were the gray "Gumby" knobs on the gray Gumby dash.
My first car was a '76 Pontiac Astre wagon... white with woodgrain panels! We called it "The Vega Thing". We later painted it diarrhea brown. That car took me and my friends everywhere and through my freshman year in college. I drove home every weekend; a 410 mile round trip. It was a great first car that took a beating and kept on driving. My first "big boy" car I bought after getting my first job out of college was an '83 Pontiac Grand Prix... I'd give my pension to have that car back!
1975 Pontiac Astre was my first car. Loved that car. 4 speed. Hatchback. Had a tachometer. I still have the volume knob and gear shift knob. That car (along with Vegas) had the most comfortable seats of the era.
The german engineered Opel Kadett E which was the basis of korean Deawoo Nexia which in turn was the basis of the Pontiac Lemans was in fact a very well built modern and good driving compact car with good enterior space, nice handling and mostly good engines. We had one in the 80ties. But you are right it was apperently a very bad pontiac.
Top 5 is too short of a list: Add the Sunbird, Phoenix, T-1000 and J-2000 late 70s/early 80s... Anything going head to head with the Japanese offerings at the time.
Worked at a Pontiac dealer in 1988. The Lemans at that time looked and felt like the best made car on the new car lot. This from a kid who was enamored with GTA’s and Bonnie’s. The rest of the list I agree with.
"SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT" caused sales of the PONTIAC TRANS AM to skyrocket back in 1978 ! Many thanks go to BURT REYNOLDS , SALLY FIELD , and JERRY REED !
My grandfather briefly had a '76 or '77 Astre. It had the Iron Duke engine. It seemed like a decent little car. As I recall, it was involved in a minor accident and he replaced it with a Buick Skylark X Body coupe.
The kadett plattform went also to daewoo called cielo/nexia sold a lot in eastern europe. The chassis was the same, it received a facelift and was sold onto mid of 2000s, in russia it reveived another facelift with the same chassis called nexia next i think.
I remember Astre being pronounced as "ass-tree."😆 When you said 1973 I remembered that the '73 and '74 Astres were sold in Canada only. The Aztek at 3:00 looks like an homage to Verdoro Green. Could you do a video on the classic old paint colors please? God those Daewoo Lemans' were turds! (Not gonna capitalize the M for that production run...)
I was confused when I saw the pic of the 73 Astre. I distinctly remember when they came out in 1975. Our Pontiac dealer had big banners announcing “Astre is here” I didn’t know there were 73 and 74 models sold only in Canada until this very minute. Ya never stop learning do ya? 😄
I had a 1974 Vega and I loved it! I had the cylinders bored and put in steel sleeves. After that.. it ran great. I had NO RUST on my Vega. I do not know what this moderator was smoking when he said it was a rust bucket.
I had a 1976 Pontiac Astre. And I actually had better luck with my Astre than many people did with their Vegas, mainly because I kept it well-maintained.
My favorite care was a 1976 Pontiac Ventura I purchased used and it had a Holley 2 Barrel carburator. It would leave Firebirds and Trasams behind me that would try to leave me behind when light turned green. I loved see the look on their faces.
That LeMans was sold in the UK as the Astra in 3 and 5 door hatchback versions and the Astra Belmont as a 4 door sedan. the Uk versions came with 1.3, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 versions of the GM "Family II" 8v SOHC motor, a legendarily reliable engine which I've seen do over 500,000 miles in taxis here. There was also an Astra GTE (3 door hatch) with either the 1.8 or 2.0 motor and up to 130BHP, that really went very well and is still sought after here. But of course, no PAS or aircon on UK models to strangle the power and less emission control too, as cats weren't mandatory here till 92 and this model ended in 91. I have an old 1973 Triumph Toledo that sports a RWD version of the 2.0 8v motor, mildly tuned to around 145bhp. It gives the 1700lb Triumph a 1/4 mile ET in the mid, 15s straight off the street! The motor has done close to 200, 000 miles to date and still runs strong and sweet!
Also, the Astra was UK and German built, not Korean as the fella sort of implied without actually saying it, and also implying US standards are higher than European, which we know is not the case.
@@baldyhead We got the Daewoo version of the Astra here in the UK. Early models closely resembled the MKII Astra 3 door from which they were derived. Build quality on these early cars wasn't the best, but i've seen a lot worse! Later on, the bodystyle diverged, not in an especially good way, though the car was still on the same floorpan and running gear. There were, however, various small differences in mechanic parts (the oil pump was one that gave me particular problems) which meant the vast majority of engine bits weren't interchangeable, this made life with one harder than it needed to be, since British scrapyards were bursting with Astras but the Daewoo wasn't anything like as common. My mum ran a 1400cc '95 Daewoo from 12 months and 6000 miles old tll she passed in 2012, by which time it had accumulated well over 100,000 miles and still ran fine, though it was a bit battered from her driving! I still managed to sell it quickly and effortlessly and still see it around from time to time. I don't think American standards are much worse than European ones (though ALL US cars seem to have cheap and nasty, short lived interiors) However US emission regs are a lot tighter than Europe which shuts down performance from otherwise similar engines considerably.
The Montana was a boring vehicle, but ironically launched with one of the best car commercials of all time. C'mon, you guys remember, the one with the existential cowboy? "Maybe it's not really a minivan." :)
I think you could have included the Fiero on the list as well. I know the early models had many problems with the transmissions, engine blocks, steering & suspension which improved with later V6 models.
Adam, I never tire (pun intended) of looking at your beautiful ’66. People laugh at the Gremilin but consider what the big three were offering as competition and it is right here I see the beginning of the end of America’s greatness in the automobile industry.
You got #1 completely correct. When was the last time you saw one???? Also, I remember visiting Canada in the 90's and seeing the Pontiac Firefly (aka Geo Metro)
Had an older lady come into my parts store looking for parts to a 1994 tempest. I said ma'am you must have that wrong and she took attitude with me. I go out to have a look and there sat a Chevy Corsica in a Pontiac costume... Silly Canadians.
@kenleppek Sucks to be a naysayer hunh.
I think you nailed it Adam, even the ordering of the list is about perfect. I would have also given honorable mention to the FWD X-body Phoenix.
The Lemans was downright horrible; my friend test drove one and it broken down on the way back to the dealer.
The x-body outsold it. And honestly was a decent car. I know because I had one. The 173 v6 had good oomph to bad it was a rust magnet.
@@joe08867 our family had one too, although it was a Skylark not a Phoenix. Bought new and was a disaster from day 2…blown transmission at 9k the most notable. Glad you had better luck.
That sucks. I think like any car store are good and some are lemons. I've had my share of both for sure.
I am guessing you are referring to the Korean built LeMans of the late 1980's imported from Daewoo.
@@jeffrobodine8579 yes. An
absolute insult to the iconic Lemans name.
Great video Adam, your first 3 vehicles on your list were so nostalgic for me. I was in high school all through the Aztek run and I was hobestly somewhere between intrigued and indifferent, I do remember all of the reviews and placement in shows
We had a Montana SV6 through my teens and early 20's. I remember the cowboy commercial showcasing that it could seat 8 and dad said it had more horsepower and torque than his 86 Firebird.
I remember the G3 as the Wave here in Canada and my Aunt had a G5, my cousin picked me up in it summer of 09 to go work with his uncle.
I was hoping to see the 88-93 LeMans on the list and whoomp, there it is! Enjoyed this one quite a bit, thanks for putting it together.
I think LeMans compared favorably with the same era Mercury Lynx.
The Pontiac "LeMons." Even the name badges were spelled wrong.
As you have mentioned, Pontiac was a leading GM brand in Canada, outselling Chevrolet from time to time. The Astre was quite common here, moreso than the Vega. I was in high school at the end of the 70s, and my friends and I were hot rodders then. One of my friends picked up an Astre for the effort of towing it away. It had sat for quite a while with a blown engine and had fairly low miles, and aside from the engine was not in bad condition. We found a 283 Chevy motor & powerglide transmission from a 60s Chevelle and picked this up for $100. The motor ran excellently, and the transmission was fine, and a little more scrounging got us a set of 327 "camels-hump" 1.94" intake valve heads, a 4 barrel carb/manifold, and a NOS 327/350 HP camshaft for another couple of hundred dollars. All of this went into the 283, and the 283/powerglide went into the Astre. We had a muffler shop make up a dual exhaust system and install it, and had the radiator recored and enlarged as big as we could make it and still fit.The most expensive addition to the car was a narrowed 12 bolt axle that he bought from an unfinished race car. This had a streetable 3.73 posi gearset. I think this cost another $400. All in, it was about $1400 in 1980 dollars plus a lot of sweat equity. It was easily one of the best low-cost hotrod projects that I ever was a part of.
This turned my friend's Astre into a really quick and fun to drive car. The 283 took to the Astre like a duck to water. In fact, it was so good that we were amazed that GM had never built something like this. How easy it would have been for them to do it!
I think now that the Vega/Astre was a harbinger of what was to come for GM, a succession of poorly designed and poorly built cars that with more effort could have been great. The "Le Mans" on this list was a horrible abuse of a great name, and associating this name with such a bad car is an excellent way to drive loyal brand buyers away. The Montana, the G3, and the Aztec are so uninspiring for a brand that porports to "build excitement", it's no wonder that sales fell so much that the division had to be axed as part of the bankruptcy. A sad end for a once-great name in the automotive business.
Chevrolet put 305s in the Monza. Enterprising youths like myself put the 454 in the Vega. :D lol!!
@mikalnaylor A 454 Vega would be quite a machine! I recall reading about 454 Vegas in magazines and seeing ads for Motion performance kits, but I never saw one in the flesh!
I have seen 305 Monzas that were warmed over. They were OK, similar to my friends car, but pretty smogged up in stock form. However, none that I saw would rev like my friend's 283 with 327 cam/heads and 3.73 gear set. I reckon that a 305 Monza would have all the bones to make a very similar car, especially with a 327 or 350 swap.
Curious, was the Early Asters (pre '74) also built in Lordstown? I toured the plant in '74, did not see any Astres there & never knew they existed until their introduction in the US (even living this close to Canada). I know now many Chevys were rebadged as Pontiacs in Canada/Mexico over the years due to some divisional corporate marketing conflict.
@@mikalnaylor
FYI...... GM 283, 305, 307, 327, 350 and the most rarest '68/69 302ci Z28 'Zapper'.....other than main bearing caps and crankshaft journals to say the least, all of these small blocks were basically EXACTLY the same blocks!
@CSmith-gb1sl I think the vast bulk of Astres sold in Canada were built in Oshawa, Ontario.
I never thought the naming strategy G3 G5 G6 G8 was a smart move on Pontiac's part. It just seemed the lower the number, the cheaper the model screaming frugality. Always better to have tried and time honored stand alone model names imo.
Ditching classic Pontiac model names was moronic.
Yes, until great names are applied to worst possible cars like the “Lemans”. Then it becomes pretty galling.
Ditched the names for cars that weren’t its own but more so a world car i.e. Saturn Aura Saturn Astre Pontiac G3 Pontiac G4 ect. The end of the run for Saturn and Pontiac was bleak but was a different route than Oldsmobile.
Cadillac, Lexus, Infinity, and eventually Acura all did the same thing... Let's all follow Mercedes & Bimmer with their letters & numbers!
The G8 was an excellent vehicle
Pontiac T1000 with an Isuzu Turbo Diesel and a 5-speed manual was alright, used to own one. Called it the Poor Man’s 240D.
LOL I hadn't seen your comment when I posted mine above... Opinions vary.. 🙂
I'd drive that. Probably simple to maintain, great fuel mileage, and utilitarian with the hatch.
@@LongIslandMopars It was great. Analogue MFI Isuzu Turbo Diesels are some of the best Diesels ever made, in that era. Third only to MFI Peugeot, who is/was second only to Mercedes. They were underpowered and smoky, but they were highly tunable with a Turbocharger, and were great for running on waste vegetable oil, especially when rigged up with an inline Bosch MFI pump.
@@stoneylonesome4062 Cool. My thesis back in 2005 was on biodiesel. Better than waste veggie oil as long as you had a means to refine it. I thought about doing a home refiner setup but at that time everything that was an old diesel skyrocketed in price. I wanted a 300TD wagon but those were ridiculous. A friend of a friend recently picked up an early 2000s 1.9 TDI Jetta (no emissions garbage). I want it when he gets tired of it.
@@LongIslandMopars I have an old 83 W123 300D Turbo coupé*, used to be my father’s. Half a million miles on original engine and the same manual 5-speed that was swapped in before he got it. A lot of those miles were run on vegetable oil. He bought it used at UGA and had hippy friends in Athens who had some contraption rigged up in someone’s shed that would filter the bejesus out of WVO from the local restaurants in town. Works perfectly with it. Although, if I was gonna do a vegetable oil experiment, I’d probably go buy an old Isuzu or something like that, and if I wanted to get a classic Mercedes Diesel, I’d probably wanna avoid ones that were used as WVO experiments. Unfortunately, a lot of people assume that because they’re fueling their car for free, that they don’t have to perform any maintenance on it, which isn’t true, obviously. And I’d avoid Volkswagen Diesels; even the ones pre-emissions regulations have timing belts and weak head gaskets. If you can’t afford a classic Mercedes Diesel, MFI Peugeot Turbo Diesels or MFI Isuzu Turbo Diesels are your next best options.
Had a used Astre that I paid $75 for in 1980, I think I overpaid.
I bought a Vega for $50. It came with an extra set of tires , radiator, and battery. I overpaid too.
European GM, Opel built very good small cars. But American GM didn't have clue how to build small affordable cars. They just built something, not even halfway decent car. Vega and Astra were worse than Soviet Union Ladas.
I met someone who bought one of the last couple years of the Astre/Sunbird wagons, with the cast iron engine, and he actually drove it for 30 years... 🤷♂️
We had a Chevy Vega. In honoring the GM designers we'll rename the Vega and Astre as the @$$tre. @$$ backwards engineering...
Yes U did
I am throwing in my 2 cents. I had several Vegas in the late 70's. Started with a notch back version. I always thought it would make a great looking convertible, except the frame would have to be heavily modified .
The main 4 banger problem I found was the head. I rebuilt a couple of the engines, and the aluminum blocks looked pretty good. Doing valve jobs on the head ? It took a few o find one with out a crack in it, where the oil burning was coming from.
Rust ? You could hear it rusting on a quite summers night. I bought some for parts, and the rust was simply everywhere. The undercarriage seemed to be heaviest hit, by the rear end trailing arms.
All in all, it was a fun vehicle to drive. I even fitted a couple with Buick V6's using factory Monza parts.
My buddy rolled a vega station wagon in snow. We chopped the roof and called it the Vegamino. Looked good actually. 1981
I thought for certain the Sunfire would make this list. Great video!
I think you made good choices for this last, Adam. I only have a bit of experience with an Astre. A friend had one in college. It was well kept, 6 years old and the white interior plastics were turning to powder, and it was like riding in a rock polisher.
All those Mid 70s-Mid 80s GM cars had plastic that turned into powder. You could just use your fingernail on the plastic and scratch it to hell easy, plastic would just turn into powder, just AWFUL plastics.
I thought it was an ugly car except for the bright yellow ones.
@@clemsonblokeYep I remember doing the fingernail scratch inside my ‘82 Chevette, and thinking if I kept going I could scratch right through the door panel. Parts that were most exposed to sunlight got deteriorated the worst.
Only Pontiac I owned from new was a ‘79 Parisienne Brougham. Pretty comfy ride. Inherited a #4 Montana. Exhaust manifold was going and the van went shortly thereafter.
Best friend's older brother had an Astre SJ when I was growing up and I thought it was pretty cool. Certainly the interior seemed more interesting and better trimmed than the typical Datsun, or ubiquitour Corolla of the tme. Couldn't say anything about it as a car, but with Pontiac rally wheels and a stick shift it seemed neat to my 13 year old eyes. Later, however, I drove someone's 77 Vega and was completely unimpressed - my same year Accord was a much more fun drive - even with the crappy 2 speed auto. As for the Montana - geez, I'd forgotten it existed. And the G3 escaped my notice entirely.
The last Trans Sport, 1996 with the 3800 was a great van.
Handled very good for a van with a great ride and 34mpg on highway.
I miss mine ('95), wish I would had the foresight & oil sprayed the undercarriage yearly, would had lasted longer.
I still have and drive a 1999 Montana (as a second vehicle). I use it for hauling model airplanes all over the place. It has been a great vehicle, and has needed very little maintenance. I'm going to look for something a bit bigger to replace it, and am gonna hate having to fork over $40-50k to replace it... 😔
I think Montana was a step backwards from Trans Sport, which was much more advanced. Too bad the original Trans Sport concept wasn't realized, (apart from that funky steering wheel with 100 buttons).
@@MarinCipollina Yes, they went "backwards" on the Second Gen. From a source @ GM the original U bodies were an "experiment" with the space frame & composite panels. My H body Bonneville had plastic fenders, though not all of them did of the same year.
Compare the Aztek’s styling to some of the SUV’s/CUV’s being offered today. Maybe it was just ahead of its time.
It isn't even ugly compared to today's monstrosities. Slap on a Lamborghini badge and its a less edgy Urus.
Agreed
The Aztek always looked to me like two of the Korean Lemans hatchbacks stacked one on top of the other like dogs initiating a breeding act and all wrapped in the cladding. Practical, maybe, but irredeemably unsightly.
Asstek
Can anyone say Tesla. Lol. The aztek is great looking in comparison
At least you ignored my beloved 1970 Catalina/Bonneville. I was holding my breath! Excellent list with appropriate detail, as always. Thank you, sir.
That wasn’t a bad car…just homely ;)
@@RareClassicCars With looks that were just puzzling for the era. Pontiac went from one of the handsomest to one of the most homely in 3 short years.
Hi Adam, funny and ilustrative survey on this cars line up. Vega based Astre model, had a sporty look, hatch back two door, some Euro stylish one as well, and so sad that had the infamous Aluminum engine, smart idea but bad reputation as you`d mentioned in video. I wonder why Le Mans model, marketed as Daewoo Racer/Cielo in South America or Daewoo Nexia to Euro market, failed at US subcompact field. In Colombia, those five door/hatchback units (the only body style available, by the way), did perform very well, specially as taxi cab duties, reaching almost 200.000 or more miles before engine overhauling, and many of them are on our streets since 1992, 1.5 liter TBI injection and five manual speed transmissions. Thanks for video, and take care, man.
Every car my family owned was a Pontiac. My first car was a Pontiac (was not a hand-me-down but freshly bought,) so it broke my heart when 4 things happened. 1. They started gluing plastic on the car sides, 2. They became indistinguishable from other cars, 3. Pontiac started numbering their cars instead of naming them. Could you love a kid named 6? and finally 4. They stopped being American cars. Sacrilege, The GTO was made in Australia and even though you knew it wasn't, you walked away thinking it was a 4-door car. A Korean Lemans??? Pontiac's reputation became a Korean car brand... or so it seemed.
In the late 1990's I was randomly selected (and paid quite nicely) to be part of a serious design evaluation focus group that evaluated many features that became part of the Aztek and the Avalanche. Obviously they did not take my thoughts to heart as I made no bones about how horrible the proposed styling, inside and out was. It certainly sickened me to see Pontiac fold when it did. Many hundreds of thousands of miles I put behind the wheel of their products.
You can believe it or not but it's very true. Certainly not an 4 banger Astre but multiple Pontiacs. One was, in fact, a variant of the Astre made in Lordstown, Ohio in the old Vega/Astre plant. It was, a 1979 Sunbird wagon. It had a 231 Buick V6, Saginaw 4 speed, power steering. The only option was an AM radio. Bare bones nothing. Family bought it as a delivery wagon for the business. I was the only driver of it from the early 1980's through 1990. Went to the crusher in 1991 it had a documented 238,532 miles on it. Only time it left me stranded was when the electric fuel pumps crapped out.. Firewall stress cracked when the original clutch cable started to give out. Re-enforced it with a piece of 1/8" steel plate and never had that problem again. You knew when to replace it when your left leg started cramping up using the clutch. Drove a personal 1984 Sunbird coupe well into the 1990s. Other than maintenance it only died when someone smashed into it and totaled it. Also had a couiple of late 1970's Firebirds/TAs in the early 1980s. Not all they are now lauded for but, if taken care of, the 403 motor in them was decent and lasted. Add it all up, and it's "hundreds of thousands of miles".
Those Avalanches were RUST buckets.
The maintenance costs for the Vega/Astre had to have been low. As soon as anything broke, it was a mechanical total if they didn't rust away first. I remember my uncle buying a new Vega when I was a kid, and it rusted away, right in front of my eyes.
I heard rumors that they started to rust on the showroom floor.
GM actually built them to rust out.
The engine in the Vega would give up, before the body rusted away.
I'm going to go back in time. Back in the day, I had a friend who had an early 60's Tempest. He had the wagon version but I doubt it makes much difference. It was a _terrible_ car. It was 4 cylinders. One summer afternoon about 55 or 56 years ago, we fixed a rowboat to the roof and drove about 50 miles down the freeway. The meager engine, along with the air drag from the boat, made it necessary to drive at full throttle to maintain 55 mph.
If it was early 60's it might have been one of the interesting cars that had a platform relative in the Corvair.
The Pontiac had front engine placement whereas the Corvair had its rear placement.
There are some nice videos explaining the Pontiac, Olds and Buick versions.
Good car, wrong motor.
Allow me to introduce to you my '78 VW van. It had a 2 liter (the biggest engine ever offered in an air cooled VW van, from the "Porsche 914") and with *nothing* on the roof it could do 70 on a good day. Going "over the hill" to/from Santa Cruz it could maintain 50 MPH with the gas pedal planted to the floor the entire time. If I got slowed down, well, that was basically the speed I was going to do until I got to the top.
@@brentlanyon4654 My friend's Tempest was not the slowest car I of which I had the misfortune of becoming familiar, way back when. That would be a friend's VW with a rebuilt engine. Your description of the VW bus's performance sound like the performance of my friend's VW bug.
@@randallanderson1632 Hey - at least they were completely unsafe!
I loved that stupid van, but it was objectively a very poor performing vehicle. Driving across the Bay Bridge it would catch the wind like a kite!
Bought a 1974 Astre from an elderly lady back in early '80's when I was in high school. Had low miles, no wear on engine but had been parked on the grass so pretty rusty on the bottom. Did find ok to drive and got a few years out of it.
I've owned 3 of these 🤣🤣🤣 I had an Astre... it was actually fun to drive with the 4 banger and 4 speed. Oddly, I had very few issues with it during the 3 years I had it. It did eat some oil... not terrible, though.... maybe a quart or two extra between changes. I had a Montana.... boring but it worked... and I bought a G3 - called a Wave in Canada as a third car... mostly for my wife to use around town.
They are among the worst, perhaps, but I definitely don't remember any unusual problems with them in terms of basic reliability. Exciting? No. No. No.
Gotta say that my Astre was the most fun of these three, anyway. It was a '74 that I bought for cheap in '81 and drove until '84. It was for the bone yard after that.
I love the memories that flood back while watching this channel.
Good times!
I had a 76 Sunbird, the fancy version of the Astre. It had the aluminum 4 cyl, and Automattic Trans. Totally gutless. Used a qt. of oil every 900 miles. Front springs popped out of holders. Was gone at around 20K miles.
The Chevy Vega. The first and only car to RUST on the showroom floor!
Rust was standard equipment 😅 l remember when AMC started doing Ziebart in house before the interiors were installed and Illinois sued them because they "weren't doing it like the Ziebart shops". Drilling holes all over.
Apparently you have never been exposed to International. Scouts, Travelalls and pickups rusted while stored up inside...even in the desert southwest
Never saw a Yugo, did you?
Crazy thing is, the Vega body was fully dipped in a galvanic rustproofing bath but the shape of some of the panels trapped air and kept the solution out of rust-prone areas that. ironically, tended to trap soil and road salt.
I heard the real quote was " On a quiet night, you could hear a Vega rusting out on the showroom floor."
I grew up in a small town in N Mn. and worked at a Union 76 gas station. One of our customers had a dark green Vega he bought new. This guy swore by STP oil treatment. He pulls in one morning when it was -30 and wants me to put in some of that crap. Well, that stuff was like molasses on a warm day. So I went in the service area and I heated that crap until it was almost like water. Then I went out and put it in his car, shut the hood and said to myself, " there's your STP oil treatment you sob." Lol!
If he thought I was gonna stand out there for a long time at those temps, he's out of his mind.
Laughs at you in mid 70s honda civic,as they rusted on the ships on the way over here.
How the Vegastre didn't make top billing confuses me. It wasn't necessarily the lack of sleeves that made the engine bad; it was the open-deck aluminum block that caused the cylinder distortion and resulting ring-seal issues. Iron sleeves would've worked, but so would a closed deck. As for rust, I grew up in Las Vegas and saw my fair share of rusty rear quarters and hatches on Vegas. My friend's mom had one and the cowl had holes in it. It was a local car its whole life.
I still have my 1975 Vega from high school. I put a V6 in it. No parts available has me using non-automotive parts to keep it running.
Bought a '76 Astre new in July of 1976(2bbl Holley carb and 4 spd Saginaw tranny).... made 5 trips across the US.... changed oil every 3000 miles(Quaker State).. other than shocks, tires, and batteries, only other repairs were timing belt, water pump, radiator, rear main seal, and rebuilt the carb.... sold it with 110,000 miles... NEVER BURNED OR USED OIL....It may have had the IRON DUKE engine as it was a late '76 build but I am not sure... it was still on the road in 1988 and it was not burning oil.... had it undercoated with Quake Coat Metal Guard when I bought it and it never rusted even after 5 of the 9 years were in PA and OH winters....
True. The '76 & '77 Vegas had the totally revised Dura-built version of the original Vega engine. It had near Toyota levels of durability: th-cam.com/video/WeP0HSJHBiE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tieCuOrAzJYS9Ch1
Pontiac was interesting. My mom owned a couple when I was a kid-- a 1978 Catalina that was basically bulletproof, and a 1989 Grand Am that I later inherited during its sunset years, and that thing was a piece of K R A P. I can't believe those things were so ubiquitous for so long, it was absolutely dismal. Rattly, loud, crude, and unreliable. The interior had all the ergonomics of a Fisher Price schoolbus.
My first car was a '76 Sunbird. The plastic brackets that kept the shoulder belt off your neck was mounted on the back of the seats and made of brittle plastic that had broken off long before I got the car. For years I drove leaning to my right because that's what I had to do to keep from choking. Then there was having to fill the shift knob with shoe goo because you couldn't find replacement knobs for a reverse "h" pattern five speed, which, speaking of which, ate through a clutch every 35,000 miles and eventually caused so much metal fatigue the firewall burst out around it when I was in law school. The "odd fire" V6 was bulletproof, though, if you didn't mind the rough idle.
@deliuslyndon8340
I was thinking the exact same thing. The quarters, doors, and front fenders of the 1st gen GAs would rust out quickly and severely, especially where the thick body molding rubbed. I seem to remember they had issues with the back window seal leaking as well.
2nd gens were sharp looking and didn't seem to rust *as bad* but had other issues. My '94 SE coupe was a gorgeous pos. That era had power window and door lock actuator issues, the steering column mounts would fail, fog light and tail light seals would fail and leak, among other recurring problems. Mine also had the 2.3 Quad4 which ran like a scalded dog, but had a bad habit of eating heads and head gaskets. 43k on it's 3rd engine when I bought it, (I was 21, it was my 1st "nice" car I bought myself, and didn't see the signs,) and I loved and babied it for a year and a half. At 67k it popped probably its very last head gasket and I sold it still running for what I paid for it. After the disasterous ownership of a very flawed Beretta GT a couple years prior, it was also the car that turned me off to GM for good.
Those last gens were, in my experience, even worse. Lots of electrical faults, poor fit and finish, poor quality all the way around, and they rusted badly behind all that ground effect and body cladding plastic.
@@seed_drill7135 I had a classmate that had a 77 Sunbird Sports Coupe in High School in the mid-late 80's, he and his wife are currently rebuilding it for the West Coast Tour, It's the West Coast Hot Rod Power Tour of the West Coast put on by Motortrend Magazine/TV that's put on in the Spring. They are puting a V6 out of late model Camaro in it.
One of my coworkers bought an Aztek, and raved about it. He put over 200k miles on it, and loved it.
I've never heard anything bad about the Aztek.
Mostly ugly but I see one every now and again
I was pretty certain that Korean LeMans would be #1. What was really insane was giving it the LeMans nameplate which was a pretty decent and iconic Pontiac back in the day. Sacrilegious.
Ironically the German built Opel versions were way better in quality than the Korean built ones sold in North America
I was born in 1990. For the first 6 years of my life the LeMans was often found at mechanics shops or broke down roadside much like Mazda Protégés and VW Fox’
I agree, my Mom owned a 76 LeMans Sports Coupe and that was a cool ride. For Pontiac to slap that name on a poorly built foreign car, was a disgrace to their heritage.
Adam- Totally agree with Pontiac/Daewoo LeMans in the #1 slot, especially having owned a 1967 LeMans. I use to visit Vancouver BC in the early ‘90’s and would see many unique Canadian Pontiacs like the Firefly (Geo Metro), Sunburst (Isuzu Gemini, Tempest (Chevy Corsica), and of course vintage Acadians and Beaumonts. I was a little disturbed by the Tempest, but loved the name (not the car) Firefly.
This really hits home! Thanks, Adam!
A 1977 Astro with a 2.5 iron Duke was one of our first if not have First vehicle, I distinctly remember being maybe two 2 1/2, sitting in it, but I’ll never forget the distinctive choo-choo Choo Choo Choo sound that a cold cranky 2.5 L Iron Duke makes when turning over. Sold it for $100, it had over 400,000 on it and rusted through floor pans. It was a good wagon. Otherwise, my dad‘s words hell I think the Astra was one of the most reliable vehicles I own. That’s saying something for a rebadged to Vega, that I forgot to mention above also survived the 1984 memorial day flood. Let it sit for about a week, drained everything, and had it going again.
6:39 The Pontiac G3 didn't have different headlights or tail lights from the Chevy Aveo, only the front bumper was slightly tweaked which incorporated the Pontiac grille and slightly restyled lower air intakes which also housed the standard fog lights - Otherwise there were no differences aside from Pontiac badges and the bulbs for the dashboard backlighting being changed from green to red.
I had a 1987 Bonneville and that car actually ran like a champ. It was ate up with rust, but that car just kept running, well into the early 2000s.
Adam, Post 1975, Pontiac's Hall of Shame is bursting at the seams. 😂
Aztec? If it's good enough for Walter White, it's good enough for me!
HEISINBURG !!!!
Walter made all the good decisions.
@@markstevens1729 questionable....
Thank you for sparing the Fiero, Adam! It usually makes these sorts of lists (often in the form of junk click-bait articles with all the wrong facts), but I trust you would appreciate the innovation that went into that car. Having just attended the 40th anniversary celebration last summer in Pontiac, MI, there are plenty people who were on the design team / factory floor still around willing to speak and/or be interviewed. Perhaps a topic for a future video? 😉
Eh. I'm curious what innovations you mean? I always felt they were a big let down. I'm curious what you like about them? Certainly they did get better with the V6 and what not as time went on.
@@Andyface79 Mainly the space frame with the urethane body panels. Using that they were able to easily produce what became the first mid-engine 2 seat American sports car and was better engineered than the Corvette. With Chevette front suspension and Citation rear, it was still able to out handle it.
In 1988 when it finally got its own suspension, was when it got the hammer for good. It was controversial and debated whether Chevrolet caused that or not.
I'm leaning towards they did, because they already had the 89 Fiero design ready to go, and in not to waste that development money, used that design for the new 93 Camaro/Firebird. That is why their front engine was up under the windshield, and they look like they do.
A plant was built solely to produce the Fiero, and when it was axed, they used it and the space frame concept to produce the new Saturn division of cars.
@@HAL-dm1ehI grew up next to Pontiac Motors and a couple of blocks from Fisher Body. It’s all gone now.
@@Andyface79 Sorry I missed your question. Like another noted, Pontiac developed the car (somewhat secretly) to include an innovative steel spaceframe construction and unstressed plastic (not fiberglass) body panels. The car was fully functional/drivable w/o the body panels. This innovative approach allowed for rust-free & dent-resistant bodywork. It also afforded inexpensive styling changes from year to year if needed. This technology was later used in the 90s for the original Saturns and "Dustbuster" minivans, among other GM vehicles. The spaceframe was extremely strong with built-in side impact beams and roll cage protection. At it's introduction, Fiero was the 2nd safest car in crash tests behind industry leader Volvo. That says alot. In addition, Fieros were more comfortable & spacious inside than competitors like MR2, X1/9, and even GM's own Corvette. Headrest speakers ensured amazing stereo sound while the optional underdash factory subwoofer provided a hint of bass. The driver-centric floating gage pod became a feature in many future cars. The parking brake between driver's seat & door sill lay flat when engaged to ease ingress/egress. The fuel tank was located in the center of the car (under center console between passenger seats) for crash safety. The sunroof was removable and stowed in the front compartment for a nearly targa-like experience. All trim levels came standard with 4-wheel independent suspension and 4-wheel disc brakes. The only let down was the powertrains (especially the original Iron Duke 4-cyl w/ 4-spd), although that could be said of many cars of the era. The engine bay was originally designed to accommodate larger motors. Test mules at the time beat the snot out of Corvettes, so GM axed those plans. I could go on... Today, there is a large Fiero community that supports all kinds of powertrain swaps, mostly using newer GM hardware. GM's 3800 V6s and LS4 V8s are quite common ways to achieve 300-500 hp where only 90-140 hp existed previously. Not much on the road can keep up with a swapped Fiero 😉
I bought a Vega GT hatchback in 1975 as my first new car, I looked at the GT version Astre but their was about a $300 price difference and on my limited budget I bought the Vega which I got a much better deal on. Mine never rusted (nor did the 75 Vega my mom had) nor did I have any real issued but a fuel pump at 22K miles go out. I put 128K on that car in 5 years and traded it for a Monte carlo and I saw it still running 2 years later so who knows how many miles it had. Never burned oil and even the clutch was still good when I traded it. Mom's 75 was still going until it got broadsided in 1982 and right where the gas filler cap was so insurance totaled it but it was still running when it went to the junk yard.
I would like to have a Vega. Most of the unrusted Vegas got a v8 swap. Its hard to find a decent Vega, but I do find Pintos for sale, but prices aren't dirt cheap anymore.
If you want a Pinto, maybe you could settle for a clean Mustang II?
No older vehicle is dirt cheap anymore. They were fun to drive & actually a nice looking car. too bad it had the rust & oil issues.
You some sorta masochist?
Agree 100 percent with number one. I was a mechanic at a Pontiac dealership in the early 90s, and when I drove and worked on those Lemans' my thought was always " what the..." is this piece of crap. I'm surprised Adam you complimented the looks of them, I always thought they were ugly
1965 Pontiac GTO - I had one - great car if you treated it right! Now I have a 1987 Pontiac Fiero V-6 5-speed manual mid/rear engine.
It's quite an interesting car - now being restored from 'rat-rod status. I estimate about 3 years to completion. I knew a Catalina convertible once too.
A 1965 GTO? That's the stuff dreams are made of. For me at least, your experience as an owner may have been different.
I liked everything about it actually.@@perkin2000
My favorite Pontiac was the 1966 PONTIC GTO : It was the only car to have louvered taillights !
I liked the '64 GTO also.@@drbluzer
Nothing bad about the '76-'77 Astre. Had the Vega Durabuilt engine with 60,000 mile warranty. Comfy seats. Decent ride comfort and quietness. Superb handling. Available 5-speed with overdrive tranny.
'77 Got the Iron Duke 4...
Ugh. My first car was a Pontiac Lemans. Fortunately it was a '74 Lemans. I remember when Pontiac came out with the "new Lemans" years later I thought they should never have re-used the Lemans name on that piece of junk. 🤣
Agreed, the 66-72 Pontiac Lemans are definitely wayyyyyyy better looking.
Good thing they made the Astre with sleeve motors. so, I was able to replace my 74 seized Vega that had all aluminum cylinders.
bought it from Vinnies Salvage from Camplain Rd. back when Harold used to work there. 😆
I'm not really a car guy, but when I was a kid and my dad was shopping around for cars, I fell in love (because children know what's important when buying a car) with this Pontiac 6000 STE he was looking at. And I may have been SO infatuated with it that he actually wound up buying the thing. It was...one of THE worst cars my parents ever owned. That thing was in the shop more than I was out of school. But hey, I did love that digital display showing which doors were ajar.
The Pontiac 6000 was only the Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Celebrity. Both are acknowledged to have been very good automobiles. Your parents just got a lemon.
I think the "records" set by the slushbox 1000 still stand on _MotorWeek_ today. For that alone it gets my vote, even though it isn't here.
Make it the 1000 with the Isuzu diesel and I agree.
Here in Canada we had the Acadian - the sister to the chevette. I’d bump the Montana for it on the list - really miserable little car (especially with the diesel) and it was ridiculously designed compared to the foreign competition.
Also don't forget the Acadian Canso SD (which is the Canadian version of the Chevy Nova).
@@CJColvin yes but that was a decent car - certainly not on this list.
@@gordtulk Agreed
Oh, the Accordion
I knew a lot of people that owned those Chevette based Acadians when new. It was a cheapo, not particularly refined car, but they were cheap to buy and did the job they were asked. A buddy put 300,000 km on his without any major issue. Still a few of them around as daily driver's here on the West Coast...
My vote, the 96-2005 Grand Ams. These cars were the top selling pontiac and they were garbage. Garbage interior, poor handing, unreliable, didnt drive sporty AT ALL. Yet gm sold tons of them with cash on teh hood and to fleets driving down resale value for owners and thus gms rep too in the process. It has since been replaced in the market by the nissan altima as the fleet queen hairdresseer trailer park special.
So yea these were bad not cuz they sold poor but cuz they sold well.
This is an interesting list. And I think it plays to a common theme that keeps reoccurring at GM. The divisions through corporate management often suffered from a constant changing of direction without keeping track of the soul of the particular brand. Pontiac soul USA slightly upscale sportiness, performance and a driving satisfaction that employed a good looks, decent comfort and not econo car roots and bones. Every time they strayed from that focus, sales declined. Pontiac still has a strong presence in the collector car market with its GTOs, Firebirds, Bonneville, Star Chief, Catalina and a number of its Grand Prix models. I think one of the most overlooked special cars were the 61 through 63 Pontiac tempest and Lemans models. Where else could you get an American sedan with 2 or 4 doors, a convertible, V8 engine, a rear Transaxle with either an automatic or a manual transmission, 4 wheel independent suspension, limited slip rear end, power steering and brakes and even air conditioning. In the early 1960’s. What a stirring launching pad for the upcoming 1964 Pontiac GTO! And down the road, the Firebird Trans Am with that famous screaming chicken hood decal!
My first car was a 63 Pontiac LeMans with a 326 3 speed on the floor love that car drove it all through High School
I thought that the Pontiac Phoenix would have made this list for sure. I owned one of these in the late 80's/early 90's, and it was my winter beater. I had studded Town and Country tires up front, which got me around pretty good, and a good heater. That's all the good I can say about the Phoenix.
I miss ‘60s era Pontiacs. Adam is correct… just beautiful designs, particularly the mid-60s. In later years, the “ribs” cladding was so overdone and just made the cars look like plastic. I did have a ‘93 Bonneville SE as a company car that I liked.
Also the 04-06 GTOs (aka the rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia) was never beautiful nor good looking as the GTOs from the 1960s or any Pontiac from the 1960s.
@@CJColvin Conversely, the Holden Commodore rebadged as the G8 was great looking and a superior sedan… later revived as the Chevy SS which sold poorly as a Chevrolet but I believe could have succeeded as a performance Buick.
@@Primus54 True
@@Primus54the Chevy SS was a contractual obligation by GM to Holden after Pontiac was sunset. That is why they didn’t sell very many, and GM didn’t necessarily want to sell many. They also made the Caprice version for fleet sales (cop cars).
Transport/Montana situation...It likely was for financial purposes and something many manufacturers have done over time. When the Nissan Stanza transitioned from a "tweener" model sized between Accord/Camry and Civic/Corolla classes to a direct Accord/Camry competitor they wanted to rename it to change the image. In the last year of the Stanza there was a small "Altima" badge on the trunk. When Honda introduced the CRX it was originally designated as "Civic CRX". Apparently licensing and testing requirements are reduced in cost doing it in this way. At least it used to be. I sold '80's Hondas, that's why I was familiar with CRX and Stanza at that time. In some way it helped avoid some standards that were different between carryover and newly introduced models.
Astre, (Vega body), Phoenix (FWD version), 1000 (Chevette body), Sunbird (early FWD version) and LeMans (Korean FWD body).
Adam, I am very happy the 1970 full size Pontiacs dodged your list. You may find them ugly but at least they weren’t the worst
People says that a camel is a horse designed by a GM comitee. That describes the Aztek. Period!
You know while watching this it made me think about my childhood and I remember Grand am's and Grand Prix everywhere! They were so popular from the late '80s to the early '90s to the late '90s and even into the mid-2000s. Most of them had that 3.1 l V6 which although it did not make a ton of power was pretty doggone reliable. Along with that 3800 and even a 3.4. I really really miss those cars. You don't ever see them anymore unfortunately.
Personally, the Phoenix always made me nauseous.
My worst car ever. Everything went wrong including the front drive axle disintegrating in a 7 Eleven parking lot. I still remember seeing the ball bearings rolling out from under the front of the car.
It really is a shame that Pontiac fell into the GM small car dump. GM built small economy cars as a stop gap and never thought building a small quality car was necessary.
Honda was a company that changed that market in this country.
people like to say, “we’re better at building bigger cars” or, “we’re good at big V8’s” but truth is, we’re just not as good at building cars in general, as Japan or Germany. When Japan came out with bigger cars with V8’s at the end of the 80’s-early 90’s, they smoked us. Heck, Camrys have been the most common model name in the top 5 finishers at NASCAR for the past 10-15yrs!
@@richgallagher725
The V-8 that Toyota uses in Nascar is a special design used only for racing that has nothing in common with their production DOHC V-8s. And the Dodges cannot use Hemi based race engines. In truth all Nascar engines are not production blocks but based on the architecture of production engines (bore spacing etc). Except as noted Toyota.
As to build or engineering quality. Quality doesn't start on the factory floor. It starts in the front office. And the front office is dominated by MBAs, lawyers and accountants.
"Saturn"
I always loved Pontiacs, but calling a car an American Indian name is almost considered a hate crime now.
@@mpetersen6 my point is, Toyota can build a V8when they want to, they, as the rest of Europeans, don’t have a high calling for it.
My first car was a Tangerine Red over Pitch Black 1977 Pontiac Astre Formula. It was an awesome and beautiful car. Black cloth bucket seats, body color matching alloy wheels w Chrome beauty rings, ASC glass Sunroof, Pioneer Stereo. It had the more powerful and much more dependable 2.5l Iron Duke tech 4 with a factory Holley carb. 4 on the floor, Rear spoiler, black out headlight surrounds, and “Formula” blazer across the bottom of the doors. I loved that car. So to see it on this list is completely bogus in my totally biased opinion. You should have found some crappy, over-sized, under-powered ‘70’s land yacht to put on this list,like a Tempest or something, but NOT my beloved Astre.
1977 with the 2.5 Iron Duke was the only good year as Adam stated.
I had an 80's LeMans and completely agree with your assessment. But I loved my '92 Grand Am. I had it for 10 years and never had an issue.
Confusingly in the UK the 1980s Opel Kadett / Pontiac Le Mans was badged as the Vauxhall Astra (with an 'a'). They were pretty good, if uninspiring little cars. The Astra name continues to this day the UK as a small 'Vauxhall' hatchback.
Then saturn sold an astra. Confusing indeed.
Owned an Aztek and it was a VERY reliable vehicle that our family enjoyed and got many miles out of.
Aztek...a nasty looking vehicle!!
No matter how ugly or beautiful. You cannot see it from inside the car.
The LeMans at 14:20 looks like a mini Aztec
GM was famous for the super cold AC Delco A/C systems back then- maybe the large A/C compressors is why.. which doomed the little LeMans. The 88-93 LeMans wouldn't be so poorly remembered now if they hadn't called it "LeMans". That name was for a nice intermediate/midsize coupe, not an "as cheap as possible new car" options. As far as "at the time", the biggest issue with the 88-93 LeMans for owners was part supply. I remember hearing stories of people buying a new LeMans and waiting weeks/months for a part to fix it from South Korea. GM was totally blind sighted by the reliability issues (due to lack of proper testing on their part)... but even then they should have known to have a part supply in the US for that new car. Also also, gas prices stayed cheap in the late 80s and early 90s, which fueled early daily driver truck and SUV sales. A just slightly more expensive Pontiac Sunbird was WAY more car, offered a way better highway ride, and still got good mpg. They were also reliable (in non-turbo form). Oh.. and I'll add on to the list. For model years 82 to 85 Pontiac sold the Firebird with the 2.5 "Iron Duke" four banger. That's right- Pontiac sold a 90 hp four banger Firebird in the Knight Rider KITT style. 90 HP! 3250 lb curb weight! 0-60 in .. eventually.
Totally agree, Adam. What a shame that the once great Pontiac Division ever even considered putting their name plate on these losers. You begin to understand the demise of the brand when watching this. Great job, as always.
Thanks for this one, Adam, but my personal "worst" Pontiac built was the T1000 (Chevette, later simply '1000') with the diesel engine. What a disaster that thing was. The 1.8 liter 51 horsepower (38kW) Isuzu diesel wasn't available with air conditioning. They were such a tough sell that there was a $1000 ($3145 in 2023 dollars) minimum to the salesman that sold one.
The Pontiac T1000 was called the Acadian in Canada. The Acadian was introduced in 76 along with the Chevette but was only sold at Pontiac dealers in Canada. American Pontiac dealers wanted a small entry level car to sell and asked GM management for this car and finally got it in the early 80's but it was sold as the T1000.
the chevette to me was the worst, so slow it was like going backwards along with all the engine pinging. the diesel was probably better than the gas engine.
@@davidmckibbin4440 51 horsepower, and couldn't be had with AC.. The diesel literally could not get out of its own way.
@@MarinCipollina the gas powered one was just as bad, watch the motorweek road test and see the how slow it was. couldnt even get to 60 in the quarter mile.
Wow. Your knowledge is awesome. I’d forgotten about the non replaceable filter element in the Astre/Vega
The Le Mans was built until 2008 in Uzbekistan as the "Uz-Daewoo Nexia" with a mild facelift, but the firewall back it was identical to the 1984 Opel Kadett.
I got 3 out of 5. And nailed the ‘80s LeMans as number one. I think J2000 and X-body Phoenix should have made the “top 5”. Lots of badge-engineered stinkers for Pontiac!
The air filter issue of replacing the whole unit is kinda like when you have a newer gm suv like yukon or tahoe and the brake light goes out and you have to buy a $900 lens assembly for the led brake light
Anything with an Iron Duke?
The AsterX.
How many Iron Dukes are still running around in postal LLV’s after a gazillion miles ?
They have their strong points …
Indeed!
I happen to own 3 of them at the moment for my 1987 Pontiac Fiero.
@@Clyde-2055
There is that. Even if they sound like they never had any rod bearings.
Canada loved Pontiac, as you said, which got us, amongst others, the Pontiac Sunrunner. I suspect the Suzuki Vitara is the most badge-engineered vehicle ever. In Canada, in addition to the Suzuki and Pontiac badges, it also existed as the Asuna Sunrunner. We also had a Pontiac version of the Chevette called the Acadian long before there was the Pontiac T1000.
Adam, do you know if the Astre was shipped the same way as the Vega... standing on its nose in tall train cars? I assume since it's based on the Vega, it probably was.
Built on the same line.
If you include Canadian Pontiacs, then you have a lot more to choose from, including the Pontiac Firefly, which was a rebadged Suzuki Swift/Geo Metro.
I've never heard of the Montana! It would have cried out for a HANNAH vanity plate. My biggest beef with Pontiac were the gray "Gumby" knobs on the gray Gumby dash.
My first car was a '76 Pontiac Astre wagon... white with woodgrain panels! We called it "The Vega Thing". We later painted it diarrhea brown. That car took me and my friends everywhere and through my freshman year in college. I drove home every weekend; a 410 mile round trip. It was a great first car that took a beating and kept on driving.
My first "big boy" car I bought after getting my first job out of college was an '83 Pontiac Grand Prix... I'd give my pension to have that car back!
Holy crap i just about forgot about the import LeMans.
1975 Pontiac Astre was my first car. Loved that car. 4 speed. Hatchback. Had a tachometer. I still have the volume knob and gear shift knob. That car (along with Vegas) had the most comfortable seats of the era.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Pontiac G3 really made by Dawoo ?
Correct
The german engineered Opel Kadett E which was the basis of korean Deawoo Nexia which in turn was the basis of the Pontiac Lemans was in fact a very well built modern and good driving compact car with good enterior space, nice handling and mostly good engines. We had one in the 80ties. But you are right it was apperently a very bad pontiac.
I like the look of the Astre.
I always liked that look. Vegas, Astra, Monza, heck I didn't even mind the mustang ii.
You had to look quickly. They were likely to spontaneously transform into a pile of ferrous oxide at any time.
Top 5 is too short of a list: Add the Sunbird, Phoenix, T-1000 and J-2000 late 70s/early 80s... Anything going head to head with the Japanese offerings at the time.
Tesla Cybertruck- The Pontiac Aztec of pickups. Elon shoulda looked at the history of cars with far out crazy styling. They repel more than attract.
Everyone else's trucks look like dogshit now. At least the cybertruck is distinct.
@@randymagnum143RAM 1500 looks awesome. F150 looks good in a traditional way. Silverado and Tundra look gruesome.
I can still hear the Aztek commercial with Joseph from Joseph Pontiac saying "these things are butt ugly"... He still sold quite a few of them.
Joseph Pontiac, in Holly. I remember him. Lol.
@@kenhollis9591 he always had his can of diet Coke
Fingers poised above my keyboard ready to say that the 1980's Le Mans should be number one and lo behold you do not disappoint. Well done.
Worked at a Pontiac dealer in 1988. The Lemans at that time looked and felt like the best made car on the new car lot. This from a kid who was enamored with GTA’s and Bonnie’s. The rest of the list I agree with.
Pontiac peak sales was 78 he says. I bet alot of them were Trans Ams thanks to the bandit🤠👍
"SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT" caused sales of the PONTIAC TRANS AM to skyrocket back in 1978 !
Many thanks go to BURT REYNOLDS , SALLY FIELD , and JERRY REED !
Actually, 1970s Trans Ams were some of the most desired cars of the era, they were selling just as well before the movie.
My grandfather briefly had a '76 or '77 Astre. It had the Iron Duke engine. It seemed like a decent little car. As I recall, it was involved in a minor accident and he replaced it with a Buick Skylark X Body coupe.
i like pontiac astre a lot.
The kadett plattform went also to daewoo called cielo/nexia sold a lot in eastern europe. The chassis was the same, it received a facelift and was sold onto mid of 2000s, in russia it reveived another facelift with the same chassis called nexia next i think.
I vote for any Pontiac with the iron duke 4 cyl. 🤣
Firebird with the Iron Duke
I remember Astre being pronounced as "ass-tree."😆 When you said 1973 I remembered that the '73 and '74 Astres were sold in Canada only.
The Aztek at 3:00 looks like an homage to Verdoro Green. Could you do a video on the classic old paint colors please?
God those Daewoo Lemans' were turds! (Not gonna capitalize the M for that production run...)
I was confused when I saw the pic of the 73 Astre. I distinctly remember when they came out in 1975. Our Pontiac dealer had big banners announcing “Astre is here” I didn’t know there were 73 and 74 models sold only in Canada until this very minute. Ya never stop learning do ya? 😄
I had a 1974 Vega and I loved it! I had the cylinders bored and put in steel sleeves. After that.. it ran great. I had NO RUST on my Vega. I do not know what this moderator was smoking when he said it was a rust bucket.
I had a 1976 Pontiac Astre. And I actually had better luck with my Astre than many people did with their Vegas, mainly because I kept it well-maintained.
My favorite care was a 1976 Pontiac Ventura I purchased used and it had a Holley 2 Barrel carburator. It would leave Firebirds and Trasams behind me that would try to leave me behind when light turned green. I loved see the look on their faces.
That LeMans was sold in the UK as the Astra in 3 and 5 door hatchback versions and the Astra Belmont as a 4 door sedan. the Uk versions came with 1.3, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 versions of the GM "Family II" 8v SOHC motor, a legendarily reliable engine which I've seen do over 500,000 miles in taxis here. There was also an Astra GTE (3 door hatch) with either the 1.8 or 2.0 motor and up to 130BHP, that really went very well and is still sought after here. But of course, no PAS or aircon on UK models to strangle the power and less emission control too, as cats weren't mandatory here till 92 and this model ended in 91.
I have an old 1973 Triumph Toledo that sports a RWD version of the 2.0 8v motor, mildly tuned to around 145bhp. It gives the 1700lb Triumph a 1/4 mile ET in the mid, 15s straight off the street! The motor has done close to 200, 000 miles to date and still runs strong and sweet!
Also, the Astra was UK and German built, not Korean as the fella sort of implied without actually saying it, and also implying US standards are higher than European, which we know is not the case.
@@baldyhead We got the Daewoo version of the Astra here in the UK. Early models closely resembled the MKII Astra 3 door from which they were derived. Build quality on these early cars wasn't the best, but i've seen a lot worse!
Later on, the bodystyle diverged, not in an especially good way, though the car was still on the same floorpan and running gear. There were, however, various small differences in mechanic parts (the oil pump was one that gave me particular problems) which meant the vast majority of engine bits weren't interchangeable, this made life with one harder than it needed to be, since British scrapyards were bursting with Astras but the Daewoo wasn't anything like as common.
My mum ran a 1400cc '95 Daewoo from 12 months and 6000 miles old tll she passed in 2012, by which time it had accumulated well over 100,000 miles and still ran fine, though it was a bit battered from her driving! I still managed to sell it quickly and effortlessly and still see it around from time to time.
I don't think American standards are much worse than European ones (though ALL US cars seem to have cheap and nasty, short lived interiors) However US emission regs are a lot tighter than Europe which shuts down performance from otherwise similar engines considerably.
The Montana was a boring vehicle, but ironically launched with one of the best car commercials of all time. C'mon, you guys remember, the one with the existential cowboy? "Maybe it's not really a minivan." :)
I think you could have included the Fiero on the list as well. I know the early models had many problems with the transmissions, engine blocks, steering & suspension which improved with later V6 models.
Adam, I never tire (pun intended) of looking at your beautiful ’66.
People laugh at the Gremilin but consider what the big three were offering as competition and it is right here I see the beginning of the end of America’s greatness in the automobile industry.
Interesting what you say about the Montana. I have seen many around southwestern Canada, even very recently. They seem to hold up well over time.