I think Cristou wasn’t killed by the demon, I think he died because he couldn’t pass on Minnie’s warning message to Jack, and since he wasn’t a true medium (a ghost conduit), the message that couldn’t get out of his body rotted his insides and killed him. Minnie continues to try to warn Jack throughout the whole movie, there are TONS of brief flashes of her throughout the whole movie, they are super quick/hidden and easy to miss!
I'm a little bit confused by the discussion having to do with the scene where jack stabs his dying wife with the dagger. I thought that was metaphorical. Like the wife got sick with cancer, passed away because of his involvement with this cult. He wants to be the number one rated show, Being part of this cult will help him achieve that, but like most dark magic , it's not going to be in the way that you envisioned. He gets to have a number one show but it's only bepause of the horrific things that happened while it was live. I thought when he was stabbing the wife with the dagger, that was in his mind, and in reality, he was at that time stabbing the little girl. The producer, who i'm pretty sure was part of the group, Was giving him drinks during commercial in some of the scenes. I assumed he had been drugged with a hallucinogenic or something. I think this film should get people to look into The Grove as they are a real group with lots of secrets. I thought it was 10 out of 10.
In my mind it all happened and yes this is all so he could be number 1 on TV and he got his wish. The demon she had in her was the demon his cult prays too, but u don’t feel like he killed everyone I saw some people suggesting that. I don’t feel like he burned that one guy alive and slit the doctors throat and spun his friends neck around. I feel like he can be exonerated through camera footage, but i also feel like since the ghost was so tied into the tv world all the footage would be corrupt and he would be blamed for it anyway.
I think David Dasmalchian said in an interview that Jack didn’t know why his wife died, or something along those lines. My takeaway was that Jack made a pact with Abraxas not knowing what the exact consequences would be, and that led to his wife dying. His (and our, the viewer) hallucinating of his wife was a trick by Abraxas to get him to kill Lilly, since witnessing a sacrifice to Abraxas (since he used the ceremonial dagger) puts you under his thrall
Minnie possesed Jack's body to grant him the will and power to destroy the demon with the sacred dagger. When people was possesed they were in some kind of feverish dream The part where they talk is part metaphorical and real (in a spiritual way), killing his wife released her soul, and she could rest in peace, leaving Jack's body to "ascend" Jack believes everything must be an illusion thats why he repeats "dreamer here awake"
I saw this the other night and have been obsessed. From what I recall, the red guy who is an analogue of Anton LaVey was saying how just observing their cult's ritual sacrifice can possess someone. And the cult sacrifices the victims when they turn thirteen, which is how old Lilly is in the movie. I think that Abraxas tricking Jack into killing Lilly on the TV is how Abraxas planned to possess everyone who was watching. The numbers kept going up during the commercial breaks as things got weirder, plus at some point near the end there is a face in the static, which I think is Abraxas making its way onto the airwaves. Also, I don't think Minnie was the real sacrifice. After she died, his numbers went down and he became on the brink of losing his five year contract. I believe Lilly was the intended sacrifice all along. Not only did his show hit record numbers that night, but Jack Delroy is certainly (in)famous now. I'm not sure where Minnie's death fits into everything, but I do believe she was some kind of red herring, maybe even just to make Jack not only think that he would finally achieve the success and fame he wanted, but also in order to cause him to become desperate enough to do something really reckless exactly like what he wound up doing, so that Abraxas could touch all the hosts it wanted. In the mini-doco at the beginning, the narrator asks if Lilly was somehow part of a larger plan by Abraxas or was just a lucky survivor. I think it's the former.
So, here's my take on the movie. To start with, Jack made a deal with Satanic forces when he was "communing" at The Grove, asking for ultimate fame -- and he then was told that a sacrifice would be required, but Jack didn't know at the time what that would be. But with his raging desire to be a mega-star, he went for it anyway. Then, when his wife got sick, he thought that must have been it, and felt massive regret. Leaving the show for a while after that wasn't just because of her death, but also because that death didn't bring him the fame he wanted. But as far as the demon stuff on the show -- the fact that they leaned so heavily into the hypnosis angle earlier, plus the shot at the very end, leads me to think that there was no demon with lightning bolts shooting from her body, that in fact, the demon used mind control/hypnosis to get Jack to slaughter everyone. It could even be that from the very point that Lily first stared into the camera when she was initially brought out, she put everyone into a hypnotic state, and the entire episode after that was not entirely real. (How does that explain the movie's use of 'found footage'? Wouldn't that mean that we wouldn't have seen anything when they played back video of the show? No, because they already broke that rule when they showed us the worms coming out of the sidekick's body -- if that wasn't real, it shouldn't have been on the videotape that the movie was using for this faux documentary within the movie.) And if you follow that convoluted logic, then it might stand to reason that the intent is that we, as the audience, were also hypnotized. Or it's just a case of dangling plot threads from writers who didn't bother connecting everything together. ;-)
It wasn't the demon that gave Jack the power to use the dagger on Lily. It was The Owl God. Moloch The Owl God is the god of sacrifice. The dagger was intended for Lily. Using the dagger on Lily didn't defeat the demon. It set it free. The cult was going to sacrifice Lily but something went wrong and they were all killed by the demon. This is because the demon hadn't yet made good on the deal it made with Jack. Once the deal was fulfilled Moloch took advantage of the situation by allowing Jack to have one last moment with his wife. It was the ghost of his wife that convinced Jack to unwittingly complete the ritual thus not only freeing her but the demon as well. Moral of the story: Don't make deals with the Devil or Molach.
Love the observation and theories man, you did a deep dive and formulated your own ending and it seems like you’re probably right on a lot of fronts and I hope the director confirms all your thoughts! Hey stick around on more videos we talk about a lot of movies and would love to hear your opinions, you’re a smart person.
So with the comments on what Jack’s backstory is and how he knows Lilly as part of the cult (they don’t- the cults are unrelated to each other), this video provides much more detail: th-cam.com/video/J0XXjQgeOXk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pWoA4Bo9uKWNxDao
SPOILER!!!!!!! I'm confused with the ending... Were all the other people dead too??? Because, I assume the idea is he goes to jail for murder... But, if everything else actually happened, then it looks like he killed her because she killed everybody. I am confused about that...
There’s a lot up to your own interpretation, I believe everything happened, but he did kill the girl. But this demon is like specifically a ghost to do with fame and television and I think it fried the cameras and most of what we see aired on tv. But the stuff after didn’t, so he couldn’t prove the murders were done by a demon. But that’s the fun stuff, it’s up to your best guess because it isn’t spelt out!
@filmunion8194 I believe Jack did get arrested for the murder of Lilly, pretty cut and dry. He may be blamed for the other murders because it looked like Abraxas fried the cameras and probably the recordings with it. But I have no idea how much the people at home saw, but I assume they didn’t see any of the killings.
@@filmunion8194 I think the last sound you hear is approaching sirens. Jack's fate is probably attached to what the tapes show and I imagine Abraxas could alter them. If this happened, I imagine Jack would be charged with mass murder and, probably end up in a place for the criminally insane. Anything he said in his defence would seem like the ravings of a lunatic. Oops! I just noticed someone mentioned above that the cameras were fried. But, this would still leave Jack as the only witness and, to a questoner, not a reliable one.
If you liked this, check out The Love Witch, it looks and sounds EXACTLY like a 1960’s movie, but was made in the last decade, it is SO GOOD and trippy! Kind of a horror movie. Highly highly recommend.
when the girl finishes the skeptics sentence with abra kadabra, you kinda get a creepy sense she might be something else... also there is alot of shots of minnie in mirrors and in the crystal ball, and around people, that you would think there is maybe a battle going on in the spirit world or something untill maybe jack gets possessed by maybe wis wife and completes the sacrifice and both the demon and the wife get set free?
The ending came across like the writers had no idea how to end it… so they just threw together a crazy, confusing end and just let the audience interpret it anyway they want.
@@firekind1980 I knew that was based on Randi and I remember a TH-cam video that was supposedly taken across the water from the Grove. The inclusion of both was a wise move!
Oh in the theatre we had a good laugh at the skeptic realizing this was all real and pleading and delivering the line (he either said oh fuck, or oh shit) really funny. The guy was a great actor, he played his role so well.
I subscribed to Prime/ AMC+ just to watch this movie. I've heard so many good things about it. I was not disappointed!. I gave it a 9 out of 10. I felt the movie was to short. I kept checking how long I had left on the counter. Also at the end when Lilly turned into a blue split headed light,, should have been filmed in the "exorcist" style Lilly was in earlier in the movie. This movie was so good, especially that sort of grainy 70s look it had. I loved it. I also had to turn away on the hypnotize scene, cause I was so deep in this movie, that I didn't want to be hypnotized and freak out. The character actor who played Jack (his name escapes me at the moment) was incredible in this roll. In my opinion he deserves some sort nomination for best actor. I loved it!!
I thought he was acting like he was in denial that it was really happening. I would’ve wanted a literal ending not abstract. I thought his wife was warning him what he was doing was not good / maybe she was AN unexpected sacrifice but not on purpose. The boraxes likes and audience. He definitely had one.
It’s kind of cool to do a deep dive after about Abraxas and the owl god and piece together your own ending. I know people like things cut and dry, but there is a lot of lore with this stuff where it is pretty neat to formulate a narrative of your own.
I loved this film. Lilly wasn't human she was a demon the whole entire time! No human would survive a fire like that. I especially when Jack forgot that he sacrificed his wife.
Probably next 2 years and they’ll just call it Late Night and this time it turns out that Jack is Abraxas manipulating the entire audience as sacrifices, giving them a personal hell.
The cult Jack was in is a real thing called "Bohemian Grove", it totally exists and a lot of celebrities and politicians and rich guys belong to it. The cult the little girl was in was your standard satanic worshippers. The cults are not related, but they were both dealing with Abraxis. Jack didn't sacrifice his wife using the dagger, the cancer was the sacrifice. As soon as he got big and famous she got cancer and died. The dagger sacrifice was the demon hypnotizing him to think he was helping his wife end her suffering when he was just stabbing lilly, who needed to be sacrificed to Abraxis now that she was the correct age.
Yeah, when I was watching it I was pretty sure this scene would be pretty dividing and a lot of people would be confused and lose interest. Kind of like a lot of scenes in terrifier 2. But I always like to think movies don’t have to be all factual and based in reality. So if you can do some suspension of disbelief and get lost In Wackiness and the cool visuals it becomes a lot more fun. Also get hyper interested start researching abraxas and the cult of the owl and you can try to piece together your own narrative and try to form your own theories of what the ending meant. So it can be like a fun deep dive, but that’s for commenting guys and we’d love to hear more of your thoughts.
I enjoyed that the format was pretty much like an entire talk show. I thought it was neat, kind of like I was watching an episode of Jimmy Fallon but things were going wrong. I just wish they had no backstage stuff and it was all just like we were the audience watching the talk show.
I really really liked the talk show format Because it includes you with them Would there be a sequel Because this movie has many loopholes and left over cliffhangers
I think Cristou wasn’t killed by the demon, I think he died because he couldn’t pass on Minnie’s warning message to Jack, and since he wasn’t a true medium (a ghost conduit), the message that couldn’t get out of his body rotted his insides and killed him. Minnie continues to try to warn Jack throughout the whole movie, there are TONS of brief flashes of her throughout the whole movie, they are super quick/hidden and easy to miss!
Jack got famous alright, just not how he hoped.
Haha, sounds like a slogan if the movie was made in the 90’s. Or if it was a goosebumps book.
I'm a little bit confused by the discussion having to do with the scene where jack stabs his dying wife with the dagger. I thought that was metaphorical. Like the wife got sick with cancer, passed away because of his involvement with this cult. He wants to be the number one rated show, Being part of this cult will help him achieve that, but like most dark magic , it's not going to be in the way that you envisioned. He gets to have a number one show but it's only bepause of the horrific things that happened while it was live. I thought when he was stabbing the wife with the dagger, that was in his mind, and in reality, he was at that time stabbing the little girl. The producer, who i'm pretty sure was part of the group, Was giving him drinks during commercial in some of the scenes. I assumed he had been drugged with a hallucinogenic or something. I think this film should get people to look into The Grove as they are a real group with lots of secrets. I thought it was 10 out of 10.
In my mind it all happened and yes this is all so he could be number 1 on TV and he got his wish. The demon she had in her was the demon his cult prays too, but u don’t feel like he killed everyone I saw some people suggesting that. I don’t feel like he burned that one guy alive and slit the doctors throat and spun his friends neck around. I feel like he can be exonerated through camera footage, but i also feel like since the ghost was so tied into the tv world all the footage would be corrupt and he would be blamed for it anyway.
I think David Dasmalchian said in an interview that Jack didn’t know why his wife died, or something along those lines. My takeaway was that Jack made a pact with Abraxas not knowing what the exact consequences would be, and that led to his wife dying. His (and our, the viewer) hallucinating of his wife was a trick by Abraxas to get him to kill Lilly, since witnessing a sacrifice to Abraxas (since he used the ceremonial dagger) puts you under his thrall
Minnie possesed Jack's body to grant him the will and power to destroy the demon with the sacred dagger.
When people was possesed they were in some kind of feverish dream
The part where they talk is part metaphorical and real (in a spiritual way), killing his wife released her soul, and she could rest in peace, leaving Jack's body to "ascend"
Jack believes everything must be an illusion thats why he repeats "dreamer here awake"
I saw this the other night and have been obsessed. From what I recall, the red guy who is an analogue of Anton LaVey was saying how just observing their cult's ritual sacrifice can possess someone. And the cult sacrifices the victims when they turn thirteen, which is how old Lilly is in the movie. I think that Abraxas tricking Jack into killing Lilly on the TV is how Abraxas planned to possess everyone who was watching. The numbers kept going up during the commercial breaks as things got weirder, plus at some point near the end there is a face in the static, which I think is Abraxas making its way onto the airwaves.
Also, I don't think Minnie was the real sacrifice. After she died, his numbers went down and he became on the brink of losing his five year contract. I believe Lilly was the intended sacrifice all along. Not only did his show hit record numbers that night, but Jack Delroy is certainly (in)famous now. I'm not sure where Minnie's death fits into everything, but I do believe she was some kind of red herring, maybe even just to make Jack not only think that he would finally achieve the success and fame he wanted, but also in order to cause him to become desperate enough to do something really reckless exactly like what he wound up doing, so that Abraxas could touch all the hosts it wanted. In the mini-doco at the beginning, the narrator asks if Lilly was somehow part of a larger plan by Abraxas or was just a lucky survivor. I think it's the former.
I love your thoughts bud! Really awesome, let us know your thoughts on other stuff! You got such good observations and theories.
So, here's my take on the movie. To start with, Jack made a deal with Satanic forces when he was "communing" at The Grove, asking for ultimate fame -- and he then was told that a sacrifice would be required, but Jack didn't know at the time what that would be. But with his raging desire to be a mega-star, he went for it anyway. Then, when his wife got sick, he thought that must have been it, and felt massive regret. Leaving the show for a while after that wasn't just because of her death, but also because that death didn't bring him the fame he wanted.
But as far as the demon stuff on the show -- the fact that they leaned so heavily into the hypnosis angle earlier, plus the shot at the very end, leads me to think that there was no demon with lightning bolts shooting from her body, that in fact, the demon used mind control/hypnosis to get Jack to slaughter everyone. It could even be that from the very point that Lily first stared into the camera when she was initially brought out, she put everyone into a hypnotic state, and the entire episode after that was not entirely real. (How does that explain the movie's use of 'found footage'? Wouldn't that mean that we wouldn't have seen anything when they played back video of the show? No, because they already broke that rule when they showed us the worms coming out of the sidekick's body -- if that wasn't real, it shouldn't have been on the videotape that the movie was using for this faux documentary within the movie.)
And if you follow that convoluted logic, then it might stand to reason that the intent is that we, as the audience, were also hypnotized. Or it's just a case of dangling plot threads from writers who didn't bother connecting everything together. ;-)
You're right about the worms.
It wasn't the demon that gave Jack the power to use the dagger on Lily. It was The Owl God. Moloch The Owl God is the god of sacrifice. The dagger was intended for Lily. Using the dagger on Lily didn't defeat the demon. It set it free. The cult was going to sacrifice Lily but something went wrong and they were all killed by the demon. This is because the demon hadn't yet made good on the deal it made with Jack. Once the deal was fulfilled Moloch took advantage of the situation by allowing Jack to have one last moment with his wife. It was the ghost of his wife that convinced Jack to unwittingly complete the ritual thus not only freeing her but the demon as well. Moral of the story: Don't make deals with the Devil or Molach.
Love the observation and theories man, you did a deep dive and formulated your own ending and it seems like you’re probably right on a lot of fronts and I hope the director confirms all your thoughts! Hey stick around on more videos we talk about a lot of movies and would love to hear your opinions, you’re a smart person.
So with the comments on what Jack’s backstory is and how he knows Lilly as part of the cult (they don’t- the cults are unrelated to each other), this video provides much more detail:
th-cam.com/video/J0XXjQgeOXk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pWoA4Bo9uKWNxDao
SPOILER!!!!!!! I'm confused with the ending... Were all the other people dead too??? Because, I assume the idea is he goes to jail for murder... But, if everything else actually happened, then it looks like he killed her because she killed everybody. I am confused about that...
There’s a lot up to your own interpretation, I believe everything happened, but he did kill the girl. But this demon is like specifically a ghost to do with fame and television and I think it fried the cameras and most of what we see aired on tv. But the stuff after didn’t, so he couldn’t prove the murders were done by a demon. But that’s the fun stuff, it’s up to your best guess because it isn’t spelt out!
Half the people there were in the cult, especially the man in the skeleton costume.And Lilly aka the Demon, told Jack he would be famous.
@@EmptyMindsPodcastWhat do think become of Jack after credits ?
@filmunion8194 I believe Jack did get arrested for the murder of Lilly, pretty cut and dry. He may be blamed for the other murders because it looked like Abraxas fried the cameras and probably the recordings with it. But I have no idea how much the people at home saw, but I assume they didn’t see any of the killings.
@@filmunion8194 I think the last sound you hear is approaching sirens. Jack's fate is probably attached to what the tapes show and I imagine Abraxas could alter them. If this happened, I imagine Jack would be charged with mass murder and, probably end up in a place for the criminally insane. Anything he said in his defence would seem like the ravings of a lunatic.
Oops! I just noticed someone mentioned above that the cameras were fried. But, this would still leave Jack as the only witness and, to a questoner, not a reliable one.
If you liked this, check out The Love Witch, it looks and sounds EXACTLY like a 1960’s movie, but was made in the last decade, it is SO GOOD and trippy! Kind of a horror movie. Highly highly recommend.
Thank you Potato, we will definitely put it on the docket.
@@EmptyMindsPodcast I hope you enjoy it! It is a very unique film!
when the girl finishes the skeptics sentence with abra kadabra, you kinda get a creepy sense she might be something else... also there is alot of shots of minnie in mirrors and in the crystal ball, and around people, that you would think there is maybe a battle going on in the spirit world or something untill maybe jack gets possessed by maybe wis wife and completes the sacrifice and both the demon and the wife get set free?
It would have been cool to have the girl/demon hypnotizing people at home watching
I agree! Imagine it’s an ending where abraxas gains power and the movie kind of has a cabin in the woods ending where abraxas takes over.
The ending came across like the writers had no idea how to end it… so they just threw together a crazy, confusing end and just let the audience interpret it anyway they want.
I thought the part where the sceptic, seeing Abraxas revealed, gets down on his knees and offers to worship it, was darkly satirical.
That character was based on James Randi. Bohemien Grove is the grove in this movie. It's actually real though.
@@firekind1980 I knew that was based on Randi and I remember a TH-cam video that was supposedly taken across the water from the Grove. The inclusion of both was a wise move!
@@davidj.thompson It's an Australian movie. An American movie would never touch the grove.
Oh in the theatre we had a good laugh at the skeptic realizing this was all real and pleading and delivering the line (he either said oh fuck, or oh shit) really funny. The guy was a great actor, he played his role so well.
he was able to give his cheque away before the end... i think jack said that he might at the start too,
I subscribed to Prime/ AMC+ just to watch this movie. I've heard so many good things about it. I was not disappointed!. I gave it a 9 out of 10. I felt the movie was to short. I kept checking how long I had left on the counter. Also at the end when Lilly turned into a blue split headed light,, should have been filmed in the "exorcist" style Lilly was in earlier in the movie. This movie was so good, especially that sort of grainy 70s look it had. I loved it. I also had to turn away on the hypnotize scene, cause I was so deep in this movie, that I didn't want to be hypnotized and freak out. The character actor who played Jack (his name escapes me at the moment) was incredible in this roll. In my opinion he deserves some sort nomination for best actor. I loved it!!
I thought he was acting like he was in denial that it was really happening. I would’ve wanted a literal ending not abstract. I thought his wife was warning him what he was doing was not good / maybe she was AN unexpected sacrifice but not on purpose. The boraxes likes and audience. He definitely had one.
It’s kind of cool to do a deep dive after about Abraxas and the owl god and piece together your own ending. I know people like things cut and dry, but there is a lot of lore with this stuff where it is pretty neat to formulate a narrative of your own.
I loved this film. Lilly wasn't human she was a demon the whole entire time! No human would survive a fire like that. I especially when Jack forgot that he sacrificed his wife.
Great observation bud, you’re crushing it!!
Late night with the Empty Miiiiinds!!!!!
We are Late night and ready for horror and fright.
Any guesses on when this film will get a remake/reboot/reimagined? 10,15,20+ years? 😂
Probably next 2 years and they’ll just call it Late Night and this time it turns out that Jack is Abraxas manipulating the entire audience as sacrifices, giving them a personal hell.
I thaught this was a true story for the longest time
The cult Jack was in is a real thing called "Bohemian Grove", it totally exists and a lot of celebrities and politicians and rich guys belong to it. The cult the little girl was in was your standard satanic worshippers. The cults are not related, but they were both dealing with Abraxis. Jack didn't sacrifice his wife using the dagger, the cancer was the sacrifice. As soon as he got big and famous she got cancer and died. The dagger sacrifice was the demon hypnotizing him to think he was helping his wife end her suffering when he was just stabbing lilly, who needed to be sacrificed to Abraxis now that she was the correct age.
I thought it started getting silly. The hypnosis scene dragged the film down to me.
Hypocrisy scene?
@@rightchordleadership you got me
Yeah, when I was watching it I was pretty sure this scene would be pretty dividing and a lot of people would be confused and lose interest. Kind of like a lot of scenes in terrifier 2. But I always like to think movies don’t have to be all factual and based in reality. So if you can do some suspension of disbelief and get lost In Wackiness and the cool visuals it becomes a lot more fun. Also get hyper interested start researching abraxas and the cult of the owl and you can try to piece together your own narrative and try to form your own theories of what the ending meant. So it can be like a fun deep dive, but that’s for commenting guys and we’d love to hear more of your thoughts.
If you’re confused by this ending, I bet you’d just be flabbergasted at a silent hill game or hereditary 😂
All im hearing is a lack of understanding of what the material is actually about
2:52 4th Act was unwatchable
I wish it was more horror and less talk show, kinda feels like it was edited to shit.
I enjoyed that the format was pretty much like an entire talk show. I thought it was neat, kind of like I was watching an episode of Jimmy Fallon but things were going wrong. I just wish they had no backstage stuff and it was all just like we were the audience watching the talk show.
I really really liked the talk show format
Because it includes you with them
Would there be a sequel
Because this movie has many loopholes and left over cliffhangers