@@MatthewRomero-g8e Jab 1 is a reasonably safe poke and has good range, and the jab finisher sends at a good angle for edgeguarding and kills at high %s. It can also be used for jab locks, though those situations don't come up very often.
Flame pillar is shitty PK fire and therefore is so much radder. Pulling off a flame pillar into a turnaround back air is like the most satisfying combo in the game.
I wonder how many characters are going to be in the corrections episode Next are PAC man, robin, and shulk. PAC man it’s either up tilt or down tilt. I’d say up tilt because its hitbox is small and outclassed by Nair. Down tilt has niche use. Robin is one of his tilts, and his worst is f tilt. It does nothing. Other tilts have somewhat niche uses. For shulk, it’s down smash. You could argue jab, but it’s his fastest normal and he really needs it sometimes. Down smash is super unsafe and slow.
No for Shulk is Jab No Competition The Hitbox is PITIFUL! It his only fast normal but the hitbox is so bad Also even with Smash Art is kill around if I remember 150-170 which doesn't sound bad but that is Pathetic compared to his other move that kill in the double digit with Smash Art From a Shulk Main
@@jessebermudez4927 it's not great, but it's more than anything jab can. And on some characters if you are at the edge of the stage it's a garanteed shield break, pretty cool for punishing hard read neutral getup shield.
I disagree with you. I think forward tilt is better than both forward and down smash. It's very good for ledge timing reads and hitting predictable approaches
I got bored so I listed everything I disagreed with so far. Let me know if you want to change anything on my list. Absolutely wrong: Donkey Kong: Down smash Samus: Up smash (homing missile if it counts) Fox: Down special Pikachu: Forward tilt Luigi: Forward tilt (Down taunt shouldn’t count imo) Jigglypuff: Rollout Bowser: Dash Attack Sheik: Up tilt Zelda: Up smash(? Idk) Doctor Mario: Up tilt Falco: Dash Attack Young Link: Forward tilt Ganondorf: Up tilt Mewtwo: Down air Roy: Down smash Chrom: Down smash Meta Knight: Up tilt Lucas: Jab Sonic: Down smash or Up tilt King Dedede: Forward smash Lucario: Up smash (maybe jab) Toon Link: Down air Wii Fit: Down Smash Mii Swordfighter: Blurring Blade Mii Gunner: Down Air Debatable: Mr. Game & Watch: Side special Ivysaur: Down smash, Up tilt, or Forward tilt Mii Brawler: Exploding Sidekick or Onslaught Needs an honorable mention: Wario: Down smash or Jab Snake: Forward air Squirtle: Up tilt Charizard: Up tilt Diddy Kong: Fully charged Neutral B (Should count based off of the ruleset) Greninja: Side b or grab
@ I went with jab because down tilt is only one frame slower, with infinitely more payoff. I’m not a Lucas player though, so I’ll take your word for it and go with up smash.
Flame pillar is definitely not the worst, at least, in my biased onion as a mii gunner main who runs flame pillar. That move combos into charge shot and other aerials, and I dont know why that would be their worst side special when the stealth explosion exists. Not to mention, gunner's down air is in contention for worst in the game. There's not a slower spiking aerial in the game, other than byleth (whose is a much stronger and more reliable) and mega man (which is a safe-on-shield disjointed projectile)
@Lorsko-fk1gc I just watched a bit of the mii gunner moveset guide by Helios and totally see it. Laser blaze on paper looks useful but it most certainly is not with how little knock back it has that it puts the gunner at a disadvantage. I think flame pillars niche is better. You've sold me
@Lorsko-fk1gc Laser blaze is really good, and is mandatory in some matchups (like Sonic.) flame pillar is a solid take, but I think the consensus is that dair is the worst move on gunner.
Airborne Assault is hard to challenge, I would say blurring blade, one of his neutral specials, its slow and laggy, especially against two amazing projectiles, Airborne Assault has good traits against the other two side specials, Gunner's worst move is Down air, slow, the sweetspot is hard to connect and it's even harder to land because of Gunner's slow air speed, Palutena's down smash has really good range, I'd say jab for its small hitbox or forward tilt
Finally an episode with actually correct answers For Robin, you better put in ftilt as an actual valid answer instead of going for bronze smash attacks. Ragebait or not, he cant screw this up that bad right? (Watch this actually be how it is for next ep)
Bronze Up smash and down smash I imagine are pretty useless compared to f smash. He could also say bronze down air.... But yea as an actual move I imagine it's f tilt or down tilt
@@roryrainbow77yeah bronze dair is pretty bad. I dont think dtilt is that bad, it can still sweep people like you can do dtilt near ledge and then immediately switch to levin dair. I think recently Synergy (robin player) made a video on robin confirms. Apparently ftilt thoron is a thing now even tho its still niche. Bronze dair might be even worse ngl
I think Robin with bronze sword is a valid option as it is part of their kit but bronze down smash is Ass. At least bronze dair last a good bit and sends a stupid angle
For Shulk it better be Jab No Competition The Hitbox is PITIFUL! It his only fast normal but the hitbox is so bad also his a range demon Also even with Smash Art is kill around if I remember 150-170 which doesn't sound bad but that is Pathetic compared to his other move that kill in the double digit with Smash Art From a Shulk Main
Okay I don't agree with Palutena not having a bad move, that counter is awful. We have seen both counter and down smash move cases from Luis recently, showing a much higher success rate with down smash and counter just straight up not working at all A move that covers both sides, is strong, and has a windbox I will take any day over a counter that I believe has a lower kb value than x1, and a laggy reflector.
Fsmash is Swordfighter's strongest hard punish, and you can combo into it off of slow Chakram. I think Swordfighter's worst move is actually Airborne Assault, but since you would never actually run that move over Chakram or Gale Stab, my more general pick is dsmash.
@@cullenhutchison6528 Ok for fsmash I see your point. But down smash is mii sword best smash attack. Has frame 7 startup, hits a nasty kickback angle and can two frame. Also Airborne assault has the advantage of not putting you into free fall after so it has more recovery mixup (and also allows for going to underneath stages like smashville)
@@bradevans8927 Airborne Assault just takes way too long. You can go under Smashville, but even the slowest opponent can just run to the other side of the stage while you're in cooldown (109 total frames). And unlike Gale Stab, Quick Draw, Illusion, etc., you can't mix up by going high since it's -41 on shield and very reactable. I definitely see dsmash less than usmash, but I guess frame 7 is pretty good. Maybe ftilt or dash attack then as the worst normal.
Ok that these 2 moves are outclassed by their other specials BUT THAT DOSEN'T MEAN THEY ARE THE ANSWER, though at least palutena was right Next characters are pac man, robin and shulk Pac man's worst move is up tilt, and it's arguably the worst up tilt in the game (if we don't count ganondorf) his hitbox is tiny, has little combo potential, dosen't even hit grounded opponents, and while pac man sucked in smash 4, he had a better up tilt at least (i think) Robin's worst move is one of his 4 moves whitout the levin sword, dash attack actully can kill, up tilt has niche combos and down tilt is at least fast, forward tilt is his worst move, competing whit bayonetta for the worst forward tilt in the game, although let's be real, he's gonna choose a bronze sword smash attack Shulk's worst move is jab and it's competing against wario and samus for the worst jab in the game, because this move os patetic even whit monado arts, AND IT HAS ABSOLUTLEY NO RANGE, and the first hit is -17 on shield which is kinda bad, the 2nd hit is -25 on shield which is awful, AND THE 3RD HIS IS -32 ON SHIELD WHICH IS JUST RIDICOLOUS, characters can get a huge punish (EVEN WARIO'S FORWARD SMASH IS A TRUE PUNISH, AND THAT MOVE COMES OUT AT FRAME 18+THE SHIELD DROP FRAMES) and while frame 5 is shulk's fastest move, it's also pretty bad for jab standards
@@TommasoGabisi down smash is shulks worst move, someone already put it best he needs that hab because It's his fastest normal. Down smash is way too slow and way too laggy. There's a reason top shulks use one move here much more often over the other which never gets used Also I passionately disagree with palu because she has an abysmal counter/ mid reflector
You could even argue that palu’s is incorrect. Down smash has a semi niche as a safe reading tool, but Id say her tilts are definitely worse, either her up tilt or f tilt. They are dangerously unsafe on shield and laggy regardless, having 30 and 24 frames of end lag respectively. Depending on how you look at it, uptilt can put the opponents up while f tilt can cheese at ledge, but f smash and the affirmationed down smash can do the same thing but better, so Id argue f tilt is worse
@@THG467 up tilt should not be in the conversation. She has drag down Nair into up tilt as a a true kill confirm. Down smash is safer than it looks true, I'll still agree on it being bottom 3 in her kit, down b and maybe f tilt being worse
@@roryrainbow77 i actually didnt know this about her uptilt, thats kinda crazy. i thought it was just a tool to put someone in the air and eventually kill, but thats kinda cracked. F tilt still kinda poor though (at least in comparison). Also, what makes palu’s counter so much worse? This is just a lack of understanding on counters and Ik palu’s counter has a smaller multiplier, but does it bring it down that much?
Fun fact: Flame pillar combos into charge shot and kills at like 60 at ledge lol
@@omnimom6467 yep true! flame pillar is underrated! It also creates a wall that no projectile can cross
Good choices except for Mii Gunner, whose worst move is dair. You can also make an argument for Palutena's Counter; that and dsmash are very close.
her counter has some use against recoveries and as a reflector.
What about jab? Jab is frame 8
@@AWater22 Both dsmash and Counter have their uses, but could be a lot better at those jobs.
@@MatthewRomero-g8e Jab 1 is a reasonably safe poke and has good range, and the jab finisher sends at a good angle for edgeguarding and kills at high %s. It can also be used for jab locks, though those situations don't come up very often.
Flame pillar is shitty PK fire and therefore is so much radder. Pulling off a flame pillar into a turnaround back air is like the most satisfying combo in the game.
I am going to predict King K. Rool, watch this guy say Side B without the crown
Fr, this guy has so many weird ways of excusing shit explaintion
@@ChevyDog01kazuya worst move is jab 6
Mario’s worst move is up air if it doesn’t hit anything
What?? Down smash palutena’s worst move is forward tilt.
I wonder how many characters are going to be in the corrections episode
Next are PAC man, robin, and shulk.
PAC man it’s either up tilt or down tilt. I’d say up tilt because its hitbox is small and outclassed by Nair. Down tilt has niche use.
Robin is one of his tilts, and his worst is f tilt. It does nothing. Other tilts have somewhat niche uses.
For shulk, it’s down smash. You could argue jab, but it’s his fastest normal and he really needs it sometimes. Down smash is super unsafe and slow.
No for Shulk is Jab
No Competition
The Hitbox is PITIFUL!
It his only fast normal but the hitbox is so bad
Also even with Smash Art is kill around if I remember 150-170 which doesn't sound bad but that is Pathetic compared to his other move that kill in the double digit with Smash Art
From a Shulk Main
Thing is, buster down smash is great for shield break set ups. Jab dosen't have that
@Holy-Tiramisu well is not that great(it will shield poke 9/10 on the last hit) but is it a neat because of the extra shield stun
@@jessebermudez4927 it's not great, but it's more than anything jab can. And on some characters if you are at the edge of the stage it's a garanteed shield break, pretty cool for punishing hard read neutral getup shield.
@Holy-Tiramisu anything is better then his Jab
Would probably say f tilt is palu’s worst move. Not terrible but really laggy and there probably isn’t a situation where it’s the optimal option
I disagree with you. I think forward tilt is better than both forward and down smash. It's very good for ledge timing reads and hitting predictable approaches
Lingers for a while and is hella disjointed so it's pretty good at ledge
I got bored so I listed everything I disagreed with so far. Let me know if you want to change anything on my list.
Absolutely wrong:
Donkey Kong: Down smash
Samus: Up smash (homing missile if it counts)
Fox: Down special
Pikachu: Forward tilt
Luigi: Forward tilt (Down taunt shouldn’t count imo)
Jigglypuff: Rollout
Bowser: Dash Attack
Sheik: Up tilt
Zelda: Up smash(? Idk)
Doctor Mario: Up tilt
Falco: Dash Attack
Young Link: Forward tilt
Ganondorf: Up tilt
Mewtwo: Down air
Roy: Down smash
Chrom: Down smash
Meta Knight: Up tilt
Lucas: Jab
Sonic: Down smash or Up tilt
King Dedede: Forward smash
Lucario: Up smash (maybe jab)
Toon Link: Down air
Wii Fit: Down Smash
Mii Swordfighter: Blurring Blade
Mii Gunner: Down Air
Debatable:
Mr. Game & Watch: Side special
Ivysaur: Down smash, Up tilt, or Forward tilt
Mii Brawler: Exploding Sidekick or Onslaught
Needs an honorable mention:
Wario: Down smash or Jab
Snake: Forward air
Squirtle: Up tilt
Charizard: Up tilt
Diddy Kong: Fully charged Neutral B (Should count based off of the ruleset)
Greninja: Side b or grab
Lucas' is Up Smash. At least jab is usuable compared to Up Smash 😂
@ I went with jab because down tilt is only one frame slower, with infinitely more payoff. I’m not a Lucas player though, so I’ll take your word for it and go with up smash.
Dk's downthrow is worse tho
@@SomeGuy-qd3li throws don’t count for this series
@Sticker_By_NCT_127 can't believe taunts count but not throws
Flame pillar is definitely not the worst, at least, in my biased onion as a mii gunner main who runs flame pillar. That move combos into charge shot and other aerials, and I dont know why that would be their worst side special when the stealth explosion exists. Not to mention, gunner's down air is in contention for worst in the game. There's not a slower spiking aerial in the game, other than byleth (whose is a much stronger and more reliable) and mega man (which is a safe-on-shield disjointed projectile)
Agreed. Gunner's dair has the speed of ROB's without any of its upsides. I don't think I've seen a Mii Gunner player use it even once.
The only upside to dair is even the sourspot is actually quite strong, but still it's pretty bad.
That Mii Gunner take is just false
@@Lorsko-fk1gc I thought the consensus on flame pillar was that it was not a useful move at all. What would you say is worse?
@@roryrainbow77 The 2nd option for Neutral-B
@Lorsko-fk1gc I just watched a bit of the mii gunner moveset guide by Helios and totally see it. Laser blaze on paper looks useful but it most certainly is not with how little knock back it has that it puts the gunner at a disadvantage. I think flame pillars niche is better. You've sold me
@Lorsko-fk1gc
Laser blaze is really good, and is mandatory in some matchups (like Sonic.) flame pillar is a solid take, but I think the consensus is that dair is the worst move on gunner.
@@SlogDog545 would Grenade launch not be a way better option against sonic? I don't think I agree with this
Idk man Swordfighter f-tilt is pretty horrendous. It’s stubbier Robin f-tilt
I love the music choice. The persona 5 tactica ost is so underrated
Airborne Assault is hard to challenge, I would say blurring blade, one of his neutral specials, its slow and laggy, especially against two amazing projectiles, Airborne Assault has good traits against the other two side specials, Gunner's worst move is Down air, slow, the sweetspot is hard to connect and it's even harder to land because of Gunner's slow air speed, Palutena's down smash has really good range, I'd say jab for its small hitbox or forward tilt
Palutena's worst move is counter
I think palutena up tilt is worse only bc it can’t hit grounded opponents while down smash is pretty good on ledge. Gr8 vid btw
Up tilt is very good for shield poking and nair kill confirms
Finally an episode with actually correct answers
For Robin, you better put in ftilt as an actual valid answer instead of going for bronze smash attacks. Ragebait or not, he cant screw this up that bad right?
(Watch this actually be how it is for next ep)
Bronze Up smash and down smash I imagine are pretty useless compared to f smash. He could also say bronze down air....
But yea as an actual move I imagine it's f tilt or down tilt
NO, THIS EPISODE IS ACTULLY ONE OF THE WORST SO FAR
@@roryrainbow77yeah bronze dair is pretty bad. I dont think dtilt is that bad, it can still sweep people like you can do dtilt near ledge and then immediately switch to levin dair. I think recently Synergy (robin player) made a video on robin confirms. Apparently ftilt thoron is a thing now even tho its still niche. Bronze dair might be even worse ngl
I think Robin with bronze sword is a valid option as it is part of their kit but bronze down smash is Ass. At least bronze dair last a good bit and sends a stupid angle
Amiin approves the Gunner choice
Flame pillar is a dog move but its not the worst. Dair is for sure.
For Shulk it better be Jab
No Competition
The Hitbox is PITIFUL!
It his only fast normal but the hitbox is so bad also his a range demon
Also even with Smash Art is kill around if I remember 150-170 which doesn't sound bad but that is Pathetic compared to his other move that kill in the double digit with Smash Art
From a Shulk Main
Okay I don't agree with Palutena not having a bad move, that counter is awful. We have seen both counter and down smash move cases from Luis recently, showing a much higher success rate with down smash and counter just straight up not working at all
A move that covers both sides, is strong, and has a windbox I will take any day over a counter that I believe has a lower kb value than x1, and a laggy reflector.
Her counter is also a reflector tho
@WaywardChess I said that. That reflector is one of the worse ones in this game and hardly gets used compared to others
@@roryrainbow77 but it's still used so it counts
@@AnormaIPerson3121 what are you trying to say
@@roryrainbow77 you say the move is bad, but it's still used for many matchups, so it's still counts as a good move
I think palu's worst move is neutral b tbh. But OK 😊
Mii sword fighters worst move is forward smash and its not close.
Source: I’m a mii swordfighter main
@@bradevans8927 i can see f smash as his worst move but for me it's f tilt
Fsmash is Swordfighter's strongest hard punish, and you can combo into it off of slow Chakram. I think Swordfighter's worst move is actually Airborne Assault, but since you would never actually run that move over Chakram or Gale Stab, my more general pick is dsmash.
@@cullenhutchison6528
Ok for fsmash I see your point.
But down smash is mii sword best smash attack. Has frame 7 startup, hits a nasty kickback angle and can two frame.
Also Airborne assault has the advantage of not putting you into free fall after so it has more recovery mixup (and also allows for going to underneath stages like smashville)
@@bradevans8927 Airborne Assault just takes way too long. You can go under Smashville, but even the slowest opponent can just run to the other side of the stage while you're in cooldown (109 total frames). And unlike Gale Stab, Quick Draw, Illusion, etc., you can't mix up by going high since it's -41 on shield and very reactable.
I definitely see dsmash less than usmash, but I guess frame 7 is pretty good. Maybe ftilt or dash attack then as the worst normal.
Ok that these 2 moves are outclassed by their other specials BUT THAT DOSEN'T MEAN THEY ARE THE ANSWER, though at least palutena was right
Next characters are pac man, robin and shulk
Pac man's worst move is up tilt, and it's arguably the worst up tilt in the game (if we don't count ganondorf) his hitbox is tiny, has little combo potential, dosen't even hit grounded opponents, and while pac man sucked in smash 4, he had a better up tilt at least (i think)
Robin's worst move is one of his 4 moves whitout the levin sword, dash attack actully can kill, up tilt has niche combos and down tilt is at least fast, forward tilt is his worst move, competing whit bayonetta for the worst forward tilt in the game, although let's be real, he's gonna choose a bronze sword smash attack
Shulk's worst move is jab and it's competing against wario and samus for the worst jab in the game, because this move os patetic even whit monado arts, AND IT HAS ABSOLUTLEY NO RANGE, and the first hit is -17 on shield which is kinda bad, the 2nd hit is -25 on shield which is awful, AND THE 3RD HIS IS -32 ON SHIELD WHICH IS JUST RIDICOLOUS, characters can get a huge punish (EVEN WARIO'S FORWARD SMASH IS A TRUE PUNISH, AND THAT MOVE COMES OUT AT FRAME 18+THE SHIELD DROP FRAMES) and while frame 5 is shulk's fastest move, it's also pretty bad for jab standards
@@TommasoGabisi down smash is shulks worst move, someone already put it best he needs that hab because It's his fastest normal. Down smash is way too slow and way too laggy. There's a reason top shulks use one move here much more often over the other which never gets used
Also I passionately disagree with palu because she has an abysmal counter/ mid reflector
@roryrainbow77 while her counter is abysmal, her down smash is honestly non usable
You could even argue that palu’s is incorrect. Down smash has a semi niche as a safe reading tool, but Id say her tilts are definitely worse, either her up tilt or f tilt. They are dangerously unsafe on shield and laggy regardless, having 30 and 24 frames of end lag respectively. Depending on how you look at it, uptilt can put the opponents up while f tilt can cheese at ledge, but f smash and the affirmationed down smash can do the same thing but better, so Id argue f tilt is worse
@@THG467 up tilt should not be in the conversation. She has drag down Nair into up tilt as a a true kill confirm. Down smash is safer than it looks true, I'll still agree on it being bottom 3 in her kit, down b and maybe f tilt being worse
@@roryrainbow77 i actually didnt know this about her uptilt, thats kinda crazy. i thought it was just a tool to put someone in the air and eventually kill, but thats kinda cracked. F tilt still kinda poor though (at least in comparison). Also, what makes palu’s counter so much worse? This is just a lack of understanding on counters and Ik palu’s counter has a smaller multiplier, but does it bring it down that much?
Persona 5 tactica
Palus worst move is obviously back air, what is this 🙄🙄
How is that her worst move?! I’ve seen a lot of palus use it effectively.
@ it’s a joke lol 😭😭
@@Syrup-n3t Oh lol my bad, it’s hard to tell sometimes.
@@XxWhite_Fang45xX lol same