Proportional navigation tries to have the missile keep the same heading relative to target, so if the target turns, the missile does so too. This allows the missile to rapidly respond to the enemy's flight path changes, which means it's easier to hit an actively dodging target. However, because in this mode it's not leading the target, it's a tradeoff worth considering.
Your having the same problems I've been having with the AI breaking down too. Been trying to make Small Grid homing missiles since the Warfare update using Custom Turret Control blocks, went with hydrogen in hopes that it would add to the "boom" & for all environment flight. Sub-grids made it too complicated for ease building. Now we have AI... I hope the buggy AI gets fixed.
Had the same problem with missiles not flying, turns out the ai controls the thrusters via a separate overridde program, so the timer you use to activate the ai blocks must turn off all override options within the settings (I just put lower override in the timer until every remaining toolbar slot was filled haha) fixed the issue entirely :)
Same thing here! It was the thrust override breaking the AI control, I solved it using a timer block that would reduce the thrust override and then trigger itself. Worked great.
TLDR: basic for stationary, prediction for heavy non-maneuverable targets, proportional for fast and agile targets. Basic: Missile flies to target. Prediction: Missile flies to where target will be at calculated intercept point given the vectors(speeds in direction) of missile and target. Proportional: Missile will always keep an angle on target, aiming at a point slightly in front of the target, proportional to missile-target relative speed. Usage: Basic is best for engaging stationary. Prediction: slow, linearly moving targets that can’t change their vector too fast(fighter can change it velocity so fast that intercept point will move hundreds of meters, when target itself will move only tens, also, fighter can drive its intercept point into ground, make missile go for it, and crash, and stop before the fighter reaches ground) Proportional is best for fast moving targets, since missile constantly tries to match velocities and doesn’t lead too much in front of the target, making it good for anti-missile missiles and anti-fighter ones)
Something I've had success with in using guided missiles is setting the forward thruster to override at maximum thrust. This is better for air-to-air missiles (I have a large grid destroyer that uses small grid torpedo tubes meant to operate in 0-G, where this works really well against other large targets. The idea is that it detaches from connectors, burns the forward engine blindly for about a second, then enables all of the other engines, the gyro, and AI behavior, and arms itself after another two seconds. I'd imagine that pointing this configuration straight up on planetside would work quite well, as it would burn straight up for at least one second before acquiring a target, similar to a few designs here, except that it won't stop halfway to the target because it can never cut thrust from its forward engine. This means that it often overshoots moving targets should it miss, but it comes back around eventually because it tends to point the thruster that's always burning away from the target.
Yea the difficulty is weight vs size, In gravity weight is the main issue as in a ideal world only 1 hydrogen thruster is need to hold up the whole missile and that doesn’t give you allot of wiggle room after all the core parts are in
bug are link to PRECISION MODE, i think : if there is gravity and you are going very quicly the ship will have a very hard time moving and may be stuck because he is unable tu precisely reach the waypoint
probably someon already commented this . but you probably overdid it with the overide off timer , for what i understood, the AI block ( either the attack or move ) re-start all overide . and since this is beta and all, my bet is that it get confuse with the timerblock removing override.
If you want to make auto-firing missiles, I've used an atmos thruster and event controller set to read power level usage. When the combat control block detects a hostile, it obviously tries to take off, putting power to the thrusters. Having an atmos thruster means it won't burn fuel while idle. Event controller sees power being applied, turns on hydro thrusters and disconnects the connector. Off it goes, to cause havoc and mayhem.
11:15 Try set Timer 2 to disable the rear thruster override. Maybe that's confusing the whole "go forward" thing and it's dampening its own forward movement.
i noticed this also. when you make missiles with 2 rear thrusters and have 1 set to override only 1 thruster is actively used by the AI when it takes over
Can you make some ship following drones with decoys in them, set to avoid everything? See if it can actually keep up with a ships erratic moves in combat and serve to keep fire away from a main ship for longer?
An auto mining drone would be pretty cool something I've only barely tested. It's trivial to get the drone to return home and dock itself via recorder and I saw some success with using an event controller to nudge the ship forward via engine override and turning off the reverse thrust whenever the drills were empty but not perfected it. Sensor is also viable for asteroids but won't detected voxels in Pgrav.
Honestly I make remote dismantler that I send along with lures. Lures will fly in a somewhat random pattern and broadcast a fake name to attract attention while the remotly controlled dismantler get inside the dead angles of the enemy ship. Then you remove parts like I dunno the cockpit. Only really works in space but it's fun
Turn Steam Cloud off for now and CTRL B to blueprint.. Is a pain but its solved the issue for me, you will have to turn it on every time you want one from the cloud though.
Everytime I use rhe remote if I turn off my thrust while ai still on then I turn them back on it well stop working forever unless I restart the world maybe that what happing with u sense the truster trying to come on after ai
Could be something to do with the ai Search timer... That it clips of the target, and just don't get the target again...maybe put a small seat on, and be attached to see what's going on, when it hit the "point of no command".
How about drones that attach to the enemy ship and just start applying undesirable thrust? Like perhaps ones that attach in atmosphere and start pulling down trying to ground the enemy ship.
On the note of 'no reverse thrusters needed' I also have a hotkey setup for most ships in flight that shuts off reverse thrust in order to save power as well as fuel if using hydrogen and if you turn slow enough left right up down in space you can maintain a lot of your current momentum and save some fuel just by NOT doing a high G Turn with 100000000 Gyro's, as a fair amount of people do.
@@quantumchiefyou can put sensors or event timers to arm the warheads when they get near the target, have timers to turn on sensors after the launch phase.
The back thrusters might be stuck in override, only turn on the AI's after disabling your launch boost. If your making timer loops to override a thruster? Make sure to stop those timers when you turn on the AI block or that thruster will be stuck and AI can't control it.
I see what you are saying but when you turn the AI on It overrides the thrust override, meaning it is in full control of all the thrusters, also there are no timer loops, it works with just a countdown chain which starts when i press the button, good idea tho
@@quantumchief The AI will disable the override it but it will no longer control that thruster. If you set up timers to increase the override then decrease the override proportionally then it will function.
@@batchnerd ^^ This. It 'kinda' disables the override, the override sticks in the K menu but it stops providing any thrust. I think it still uses power and fuel as if it was at full override though. Pretty buggy
You need to turn off the override completely for AI to be able to use the thruster! Can be done with a timer for example, by putting the rear thruster in multiple identical groups and placing each of them in the timer block toolbar with the "Decrease override" action. Taking into account, that we have 9 different pages of toolbars in a timer - this might work! :)
The timer blocks that is set up to active the AIs. they need to be turned on at different times. The first timer be on flight ain then the 2ed timer be the attack ai
I know the bug that causes the AI to not work with the rocket that first launches vertically and then heads towards the target, the AI refuses to use thrusters that are set to Override, it's a bug inherited from Remote Control Block. SOLUTION: 1. use 2 timer blocks set to close the override (must be a feedback loop because a single action only decreases the override by 25 propulsion units and does not bring it to 0) 2. use a separate stage for the override, and detach it when he reached a preferred altitude, like the 2-stage missiles or the S-300 system (with an explosive of departure = pseudo thruster like a piston gun)
Can you stuck thruster in the override Mode? I see drone try to manuver but have no Forward thrust. If you have Forward thrust always working, i think it should work as bug workaround
Hopefully someone found a solution to this: I've had a problem with the AI blocks where if I launch a single missile on its own, it works perfectly. If I have more than one mounted to a single launch platform, however, while one missile launches, the other, despite having both of its AI blocks ON and AI ENABLED, will have the combat block reading as DISABLED in the status section of the control panel. Even if, at the time it was activated, it was the *only* AI block on the grid. It's a shame, since I've got a solid cruise missile ready to roll out come patch day, but it is sabotaging itself for no discernable reason (to me). The current logic setup is: Timer to trigger disconnect of merge and connector, as well as start timer for second timer. This timer a few seconds later turns ON and ENABLES AI for both flight and combat blocks, as well as all thrusters, and arms warheads. Prior to any timer block activation, all AI blocks are off to prevent any sort of conflicts with the launch platform. However, every time it seems to disable the combat block (even when the tab says it is both ON and ai enabled ON) when it runs its sequence on missiles past the first one fired. Even if I save multiple blueprints with unique block names and groups between them to prevent the programming of one missile's timers interfering with another. Anyone know what could be causing this issue? How to resolve it?
ปีที่แล้ว
If I had to guess it's just one of the teething issues of the Beta, because it says it's "Off" to avoid it overriding player movements on a grid, but, it doesn't know that there's no player grid there, so it just stays disabled.
3:04 (one of many instances you do it) using a mouselock screen in a circular motion to point out an object is fine so long as you do it slowly - the way you (and many other YTers) do it is rather vomit inducing. Pls find another way to do this without causing the viewer some sort of sickness.
The Missile knows where it is because the missile knows where it isn't. But in this case the Missile just can't even anymore.
Has any missile really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Proportional navigation tries to have the missile keep the same heading relative to target, so if the target turns, the missile does so too. This allows the missile to rapidly respond to the enemy's flight path changes, which means it's easier to hit an actively dodging target. However, because in this mode it's not leading the target, it's a tradeoff worth considering.
QC: "This one works, believe it or not."
Missile: "Yep, yep, yep, NOPE...ok fine."
Ah, the joy of betas...
If the missile could speak that's exactly what it would be saying lol
Your having the same problems I've been having with the AI breaking down too. Been trying to make Small Grid homing missiles since the Warfare update using Custom Turret Control blocks, went with hydrogen in hopes that it would add to the "boom" & for all environment flight. Sub-grids made it too complicated for ease building. Now we have AI... I hope the buggy AI gets fixed.
I think its just Beta bugs, im sure they will be all fixed once the update actually comes out
Had the same problem with missiles not flying, turns out the ai controls the thrusters via a separate overridde program, so the timer you use to activate the ai blocks must turn off all override options within the settings (I just put lower override in the timer until every remaining toolbar slot was filled haha) fixed the issue entirely :)
Same thing here! It was the thrust override breaking the AI control, I solved it using a timer block that would reduce the thrust override and then trigger itself. Worked great.
TLDR: basic for stationary, prediction for heavy non-maneuverable targets, proportional for fast and agile targets.
Basic:
Missile flies to target.
Prediction:
Missile flies to where target will be at calculated intercept point given the vectors(speeds in direction) of missile and target.
Proportional:
Missile will always keep an angle on target, aiming at a point slightly in front of the target, proportional to missile-target relative speed.
Usage:
Basic is best for engaging stationary.
Prediction: slow, linearly moving targets that can’t change their vector too fast(fighter can change it velocity so fast that intercept point will move hundreds of meters, when target itself will move only tens, also, fighter can drive its intercept point into ground, make missile go for it, and crash, and stop before the fighter reaches ground)
Proportional is best for fast moving targets, since missile constantly tries to match velocities and doesn’t lead too much in front of the target, making it good for anti-missile missiles and anti-fighter ones)
Something I've had success with in using guided missiles is setting the forward thruster to override at maximum thrust. This is better for air-to-air missiles (I have a large grid destroyer that uses small grid torpedo tubes meant to operate in 0-G, where this works really well against other large targets. The idea is that it detaches from connectors, burns the forward engine blindly for about a second, then enables all of the other engines, the gyro, and AI behavior, and arms itself after another two seconds. I'd imagine that pointing this configuration straight up on planetside would work quite well, as it would burn straight up for at least one second before acquiring a target, similar to a few designs here, except that it won't stop halfway to the target because it can never cut thrust from its forward engine. This means that it often overshoots moving targets should it miss, but it comes back around eventually because it tends to point the thruster that's always burning away from the target.
Yea the difficulty is weight vs size, In gravity weight is the main issue as in a ideal world only 1 hydrogen thruster is need to hold up the whole missile and that doesn’t give you allot of wiggle room after all the core parts are in
The blueprint issue might be due to the steam cloud being full, switching to local file saving fixes it
I noticed in my tests, enabling multiple AI blocks in the same game tick breaks one of them.
7:21 I’ve never laughed so hard because I know that pain
this cannel is def a diamond in the dirt i love this kind of SE experimentation
thanks i appreciate that
As I understand the targeting types is basic works better for stations while target prediction is for moving targets
bug are link to PRECISION MODE, i think : if there is gravity and you are going very quicly the ship will have a very hard time moving and may be stuck because he is unable tu precisely reach the waypoint
probably someon already commented this . but you probably overdid it with the overide off timer , for what i understood, the AI block ( either the attack or move ) re-start all overide . and since this is beta and all, my bet is that it get confuse with the timerblock removing override.
you should probably try to reduce the number of timer block, 1 at the time :P
If you want to make auto-firing missiles, I've used an atmos thruster and event controller set to read power level usage. When the combat control block detects a hostile, it obviously tries to take off, putting power to the thrusters. Having an atmos thruster means it won't burn fuel while idle. Event controller sees power being applied, turns on hydro thrusters and disconnects the connector. Off it goes, to cause havoc and mayhem.
That’s a nice way of utilising the event controller
I've noticed a lot of weird bugs with the Beta, hopefully they get it ironed out and do a Beta Part 2 with updates and fixes applied
You have to have two forward thrusting thrusters, one for launch and one for flight. Also you don't not need reverse thrust.
11:15 Try set Timer 2 to disable the rear thruster override. Maybe that's confusing the whole "go forward" thing and it's dampening its own forward movement.
i noticed this also. when you make missiles with 2 rear thrusters and have 1 set to override only 1 thruster is actively used by the AI when it takes over
@@mugsy8 Interesting. Thanks for the info! :)
Can you make some ship following drones with decoys in them, set to avoid everything? See if it can actually keep up with a ships erratic moves in combat and serve to keep fire away from a main ship for longer?
An auto mining drone would be pretty cool something I've only barely tested. It's trivial to get the drone to return home and dock itself via recorder and I saw some success with using an event controller to nudge the ship forward via engine override and turning off the reverse thrust whenever the drills were empty but not perfected it. Sensor is also viable for asteroids but won't detected voxels in Pgrav.
Hey, did you ever get this working? I tried looking up vanilla auto miners but gave up after 10 videos of useless or scripted miners.
Honestly I make remote dismantler that I send along with lures.
Lures will fly in a somewhat random pattern and broadcast a fake name to attract attention while the remotly controlled dismantler get inside the dead angles of the enemy ship.
Then you remove parts like I dunno the cockpit.
Only really works in space but it's fun
Turn Steam Cloud off for now and CTRL B to blueprint.. Is a pain but its solved the issue for me, you will have to turn it on every time you want one from the cloud though.
Everytime I use rhe remote if I turn off my thrust while ai still on then I turn them back on it well stop working forever unless I restart the world maybe that what happing with u sense the truster trying to come on after ai
Could be something to do with the ai Search timer... That it clips of the target, and just don't get the target again...maybe put a small seat on, and be attached to see what's going on, when it hit the "point of no command".
I solved the problem by changing from intercept to stay at distance and setting it to 0. In my experience it is more precise
Ahhh, folks finally catching wise to the cheap, destructive power of a full hydro tank, eh?
I'm working on cargo drones can you help with one to make runs for materials from a movable drill rig
I love playing space engineers I'm not really an imaginative guy so I'll let y'all figure this s*** out so I can enjoy it too
Sounds good
I think you need to revisit this subject after an hour in creative with me.
How about drones that attach to the enemy ship and just start applying undesirable thrust? Like perhaps ones that attach in atmosphere and start pulling down trying to ground the enemy ship.
Sounds like a cool idea, I'm not sure how something like would work but we will see
proportional navigation keeps certain angle to target.
Are Mini-hydrogen fuel tanks a Vanilla thing now? (or are they still a creation of the Small-ship-modpack?)
They are a thing in vanilla, they are 2x2x1 and very handy
Blueprints worked for me
Does that mean, decoys will be useless to guided missiles now
im not sure
15:55 I'm impressed that I DON'T want the AI.
To this pint, it has proven to be just pure junk.
This is a beta. Precisely for players to report these bugs.
This conclusion you make in the main branch.
@@SharkStrikeAC Well I shall hold off any final judgments until they are released in their 'perfected' versions.
On the note of 'no reverse thrusters needed' I also have a hotkey setup for most ships in flight that shuts off reverse thrust in order to save power as well as fuel if using hydrogen and if you turn slow enough left right up down in space you can maintain a lot of your current momentum and save some fuel just by NOT doing a high G Turn with 100000000 Gyro's, as a fair amount of people do.
There should be two rear thrusters. One for the override boost and the other for the AI. AI thrust is broken if they are overridden.
Why aren't you using the nuclear warheads? Seems like the obvious choice.
once war heads are armed if they get shot they just blow up. this design was just meant to stop this from happening
@@quantumchiefyou can put sensors or event timers to arm the warheads when they get near the target, have timers to turn on sensors after the launch phase.
The back thrusters might be stuck in override, only turn on the AI's after disabling your launch boost.
If your making timer loops to override a thruster? Make sure to stop those timers when you turn on the AI block or that thruster will be stuck and AI can't control it.
I see what you are saying but when you turn the AI on It overrides the thrust override, meaning it is in full control of all the thrusters, also there are no timer loops, it works with just a countdown chain which starts when i press the button, good idea tho
@@quantumchief The AI will disable the override it but it will no longer control that thruster. If you set up timers to increase the override then decrease the override proportionally then it will function.
@@batchnerd ^^ This. It 'kinda' disables the override, the override sticks in the K menu but it stops providing any thrust. I think it still uses power and fuel as if it was at full override though. Pretty buggy
You need to turn off the override completely for AI to be able to use the thruster! Can be done with a timer for example, by putting the rear thruster in multiple identical groups and placing each of them in the timer block toolbar with the "Decrease override" action. Taking into account, that we have 9 different pages of toolbars in a timer - this might work! :)
@@DmytroTriXx seams like that fixed the issue but still seams like a major bug to me
i'd like to see a cargo ship following your minning ship , waiting to receive resources and come back with you.
Sadly they still didn't fix the bug with thrust ovveride.
hmm, that's a shame, i still havent had a time to mess around with it yet
This is funny
Just goes to show that at this point in time, those AI blocks are JUNK!
The timer blocks that is set up to active the AIs. they need to be turned on at different times. The first timer be on flight ain then the 2ed timer be the attack ai
I'd like to see grinder missiles.
Yes I seen this issue when i tried to make an automatic missile silo
I know the bug that causes the AI to not work with the rocket that first launches vertically and then heads towards the target, the AI refuses to use thrusters that are set to Override, it's a bug inherited from Remote Control Block.
SOLUTION:
1. use 2 timer blocks set to close the override (must be a feedback loop because a single action only decreases the override by 25 propulsion units and does not bring it to 0)
2. use a separate stage for the override, and detach it when he reached a preferred altitude, like the 2-stage missiles or the S-300 system (with an explosive of departure = pseudo thruster like a piston gun)
not a bug its useful if you need to override the ai !
Can you stuck thruster in the override Mode? I see drone try to manuver but have no Forward thrust. If you have Forward thrust always working, i think it should work as bug workaround
How about defensive drones you can launch from a ground rover?
Hopefully someone found a solution to this: I've had a problem with the AI blocks where if I launch a single missile on its own, it works perfectly. If I have more than one mounted to a single launch platform, however, while one missile launches, the other, despite having both of its AI blocks ON and AI ENABLED, will have the combat block reading as DISABLED in the status section of the control panel. Even if, at the time it was activated, it was the *only* AI block on the grid. It's a shame, since I've got a solid cruise missile ready to roll out come patch day, but it is sabotaging itself for no discernable reason (to me).
The current logic setup is: Timer to trigger disconnect of merge and connector, as well as start timer for second timer. This timer a few seconds later turns ON and ENABLES AI for both flight and combat blocks, as well as all thrusters, and arms warheads. Prior to any timer block activation, all AI blocks are off to prevent any sort of conflicts with the launch platform. However, every time it seems to disable the combat block (even when the tab says it is both ON and ai enabled ON) when it runs its sequence on missiles past the first one fired. Even if I save multiple blueprints with unique block names and groups between them to prevent the programming of one missile's timers interfering with another.
Anyone know what could be causing this issue? How to resolve it?
If I had to guess it's just one of the teething issues of the Beta, because it says it's "Off" to avoid it overriding player movements on a grid, but, it doesn't know that there's no player grid there, so it just stays disabled.
Yo if you enable multiple ai blocks on the same tick one of them bugs out. Enable all the AI blocks separately even if just by a ms
@@charleshughes2683 I'll give that a shot, thanks!
So these don’t work at all lol
The beta version was a bit bugged the event blocks work allot better now
Do these systems NOT work with the AERODYNAMICS mods?
THEY SURE SHOULD!!!
They might work haven't really trying with other mods, ill wait for full release before I do
Back thrust makes it slow.
Here it works to save the blueprint! and what confuses us is that some work, others don't and then you don't know if it's right or not
Beta probably
Could you make a space only version that only has forward thrust ? Just curious
Yea 100% you can but you may still want a bit of side thrust to counter drift
3:05 What about the ROCKET fuel mods?
Are they LESS effective than hydrogen? ~( 'w')/
no idea, 1 small hydro tank is more than enough to get the missile to its target 2.5km away so...
@@quantumchief Ok.
Can’t even get mine to fire :(
Check out my Light Multi Purpose Missile on workshop if you dont want to build compact missiles feel free to rip mine and copy it
Links to these things in the workshop would be helpful and very much appreciated....
Where's the links?
What links are you looking for?
your blue prints are full i remove some to clear space in blueprints 12:03
15:10 also i think there a think in it that when a player get close it was detect and stop i think no idea tho
I ended up sorting it, it wasn't a problem with it being full, i just had to disable a device sinking setting and it worked fine
3:04 (one of many instances you do it) using a mouselock screen in a circular motion to point out an object is fine so long as you do it slowly - the way you (and many other YTers) do it is rather vomit inducing. Pls find another way to do this without causing the viewer some sort of sickness.
I’ll try