Toby's whole career is backing candidate who should win, not who will win. Karen Croft is one of the many idealists who went down fighting for what they believed was right. The West Wing is a reminder that fighting the good fight can still result in losses. And you love them for clinging to their ideals rather than selling out for the win.
While I agree with you for the most part, this clip may not be the one to prove your point. Later in the episode Toby finds that Karen Croft is not hireable for that position due to the reasons for her loss of that election. Toby has to tell her that he got her hopes raised for nothing. You have a good point but used a bad example.
In S6 the Matt Santos character resembled Elizabeth Warren during the 2020 Democratic primary. IMO anyways. The things Santos said/did was uncanny to things Warren said/did.
I absolutely love this scene. It’s one of my favorite scenes in the entirety of the run of that show. In part it’s because it’s so well written and well executed, and another part it’s because, well, Toby smiles and obviously loves giving good news to good people. Also, “Get yourself a big hat.”
Damn, that was a nicely done scene. So much of the pain of political loss, but respect for people and the reality of political bargaining was all kept in the background, while what you have is a conversation between two people and the lady's relief and delight at an unexpected job offer that dovetails with her own interests and ambitions.
I recall this episode a lot. Toby and this lady had a great chemistry. They had a way of looking at each other. I was hoping we would see more of this character, but dont think it happened.
I always thought it was a shame this lady didn't end up getting the position she clearly loved so much not just because she was eminently qualified but also because I had a bit of a crush on her. How pretty and friendly-looking she was
A House member that the White House recruited to front a bill that would cut down on fossil fuel use. It was one of the reasons she lost (although apparently she's in a super competitive district, since her previous victory was a razor thin margin as well). This pissed off republicans, so the Senate ended up refusing to confirm her nomination as NPS director.
As I am from the UK can somebody explain to me how an eminently suitable candidate can be refused confirmation because of political reasons. Surely the criteria for confirmation is competence in the job and political affiliation is irrelevant. She should have been given the job on the grounds of competence and looks.
Because the American political system is horrifically bureaucratic, corrupt, and stagnant. Every decision has to be made by greasing the wheels, and that has to be brought by political capital. Quid Pro Quo. You help us pass this law about something you care about, and we'll help you pass something you care about. Which is why you get the same administrations spending money on schools, whilst cutting science. So every appointment, every task, everything, is weighed up and measured, and sold to the other party in order to achieve other things. They can't afford to reform it, because so much of every other policy - and indeed how they are elected - is based on the premise that they are already infallible.
"Surely the criteria for confirmation is competence in the job and political affiliation is irrelevant." Ha ha ha ha. Welcome to American politics. Competence is the absolute last criteria for any job. Our Secretary of Education is the second dumbest person in Washington that wants every school to be a jesus school and thinks schools need guns for grizzly bears. An Exxon CEO was head of the Environmental Protection Agency. The head of the Department of Energy (which usually has been led by a nuclear scientist of some sort since this department handles all things nuclear) is a dude with a bachelor's degree in animal science, was on Dancing with the Stars, and a cotton farmer. A 36-year-old whose only experience is bad real estate deals with his family's money was put in charge of: peace in the Middle East, fixing the opioid epidemic, veteran's affairs, and retooling the federal government, simply because he's someone's son-in-law.
Same reasons why the right refused to confirm Obama's supreme Court nominees even though he had the better part of a year left in office. Which was so ridiculous. I mean if he was in his lameduck part of his term after the election you might've had a case but not in May.
I love the show, but ist kinda weird that they offer such positions like there is no one who is working it in the moment. I just imagine how the guy/girl who is the current director finds out they are out lmao.
There is actually a tradition that people placed in high positions will hand in their resignation at the end of a president's term, Presidents are usually reelected and the people in those positions usually stick around because the president refuses to accept their resignation. However by handing in their resignation they free the president to either continue working with them or having someone else assigned to that position without there being any resentment from either side. You know how presidents often promise to do certain things when running for elections, while one person might be great for one aspect of that job, they might not be the best choice for another, so if focus or plans have changed for one department it might make sense to replace the person, even if the previous person was doing a excellent job. Given that the President was just re-elected there is a good chance that the position that they are talking about was actually vacant because the previous person handed in their resignation and that the president had some new plans for the park service which this new person might be better suited to accomplish.
Usually, these things are arranged well in advance where the current person has privately or even publicly announced they are moving on simply because of better pay or some other benefit.
They do not want to talk to winners. But a loser with enthusiams. Enthusiasm. David Mamet making Al Capone a poet. The Untouchables. A poet. A violent poet. But baseball brings Robert De Niro's Capone Joy in the mourning the fictionally member of his gang that let him down. Who mentioned POTUS 45? Sorry. I was told via a quote, jeers are weapons of the supposedly weak. How is Carl Paladino? well I trust? The West Wing brought in these characters and you cheered them off to their new jobs. But let us put say Gaetz Jordan Owens, Boebart and Greene together on something. National Parks say. Lawmakers and zealots of various wings over there. I suggest the first thing on the agenda would be allegedly how to personally make money out of enterprise.
"But let us put say Gaetz Jordan Owens, Boebart and Greene together on something." I heartily agree. And that "something" would be a huge ice floe in the Arctic Circle.
The definition had come a long way from renaissance Vatican. But the principles remain the same...appoint people who have connections, may they be family, friends, fellow party members....
It's especially rich when your guy is putting his daughter and her husband into offices when they have no functional knowledge of government at all. That's actual nepotism.
Nigra, please. If you want to run the gov like a business, cut costs, increase productivity, you have to hire experienced managers from the private sector. You must be a public servant, scared of losing your job once they start trimming the fat?
Government isn't a business, cannot run like a business, and is nothing like a business. Besides which, even if we go with the idea of putting businessperson in charge of government, I'll take the one who hasn't declared multiple bankruptcies. None of which has anything to do with you being wrong and hypocritical about nepotism.
Toby's whole career is backing candidate who should win, not who will win. Karen Croft is one of the many idealists who went down fighting for what they believed was right. The West Wing is a reminder that fighting the good fight can still result in losses. And you love them for clinging to their ideals rather than selling out for the win.
Reading your comment the day after the Senate failed to find Trump guilty of Insurrection really hit home how right you are.
While I agree with you for the most part, this clip may not be the one to prove your point. Later in the episode Toby finds that Karen Croft is not hireable for that position due to the reasons for her loss of that election. Toby has to tell her that he got her hopes raised for nothing. You have a good point but used a bad example.
The candidates who win are the candidates who get to govern. A proud idealist out of office is worthless to advancing any cause.
Yeah. She's Toby's kinda person
In S6 the Matt Santos character resembled Elizabeth Warren during the 2020 Democratic primary. IMO anyways. The things Santos said/did was uncanny to things Warren said/did.
I absolutely love this scene. It’s one of my favorite scenes in the entirety of the run of that show. In part it’s because it’s so well written and well executed, and another part it’s because, well, Toby smiles and obviously loves giving good news to good people. Also, “Get yourself a big hat.”
Damn, that was a nicely done scene. So much of the pain of political loss, but respect for people and the reality of political bargaining was all kept in the background, while what you have is a conversation between two people and the lady's relief and delight at an unexpected job offer that dovetails with her own interests and ambitions.
"We play with live ammo around here." Sam Seaborn said to Ashley Haines
Ainsley Haines
@@jamesmcnauliv4527 Thanks
@@jamesmcnauliv4527 Ainsley Hayes😃
@@fasterpetey with an N, not M 🤭
Once more, TWW does a two minute scene that just blows you away.
the GREATEST show in the h i s t o r y of television
"get yourself a big hat....."
It's called a 'campaign' hat
@@ernesthill2681 , but thats not what he said. i take it he was referring to a Park Rangers hat.
@@ernesthill2681 love me some Campaign Hat
: True fact = This very scene was one of the most memorable on the show for me. It's just all kinds of awesome and lovely and simple.
I recall this episode a lot. Toby and this lady had a great chemistry. They had a way of looking at each other. I was hoping we would see more of this character, but dont think it happened.
I'm so glad to hear that. I obviously feel the same way :)
And the acting is superb.
But they had to jettison her, yeah? Pull the offer because the Republicans maneuvered the position to requiring Senate approval, or something?
@@brianswitzerbbmw yeh :(
I'd forgotten about this clip. Pretty awesome.
the fact that the post was made retroactively senate confirmable and she therefore couldn't get the post was such cruel writing
My dream job is to be the Secretary of the Interior.
Michigan State Lottery Commissioner -mine
Mine is President of the United States
Is reading for a living a legitimate choice for dream job?
@@BradyPostma Yes
She is so freaking cute! I'd buy her a big hat!
and a teeny tiny bikini
I like things that live on land, and dirt! Me too!
She was the waitress at the bar in Thelma and Louise
She was also the medic on the shoreline at night during the "1st day" of SEAL training in G. I. Jane.
And after all that she also served in congress. Woman of many talents.
I like to watch the career path of the characters of minor actors... Waitress to medic to congresswoman, it's inspirational.
The chemistry between these two is amazing
I recall this episode vividly and they really did have chemistry. She had a twinkle in her eye when they spoke to each other and Toby seemed smitten.
Impressive, considering Toby's disposition is typically bland yet dismal. He's off-putting; someone who's awkward to be around.
I always thought Lucinda Jenney should have been a bigger star
3 and a half million-sounds familiar.
So do 304 and 227.
@@teddykgb3865 So does "KGB" and "Trump Supporter."
Weird coincidence.
@@teddykgb3865 306 and 232 sound way more familiar though.
I always thought it was a shame this lady didn't end up getting the position she clearly loved so much not just because she was eminently qualified but also because I had a bit of a crush on her. How pretty and friendly-looking she was
LordOfNothingreally 😂😂😂
Who is that actress? She looks a lot like Brenda from Highlander.
One of my favourite scenes!
Well acted!
She looks like she could be Scarlett Johansson's mother.
If only 3 million people meant something in the presidential race any more..
How about five million? Kinda just did!
@@howtoplayalone haha fair! I still hate the electoral college, but at least (barely) 5 million people were enough
***SPOILER****
Pity He couldn't make it happen
Spoiler alert... she didn’t get it.
Yeah, sad.
I loved this show, miss it.
A wonderful scene.
ok, who's Karen Croft?
A House member that the White House recruited to front a bill that would cut down on fossil fuel use. It was one of the reasons she lost (although apparently she's in a super competitive district, since her previous victory was a razor thin margin as well). This pissed off republicans, so the Senate ended up refusing to confirm her nomination as NPS director.
@@Matuse ok, thanks very much. I remember it only vaguely, so thanks again.
As I am from the UK can somebody explain to me how an eminently suitable candidate can be refused confirmation because of political reasons. Surely the criteria for confirmation is competence in the job and political affiliation is irrelevant. She should have been given the job on the grounds of competence and looks.
Because the American political system is horrifically bureaucratic, corrupt, and stagnant.
Every decision has to be made by greasing the wheels, and that has to be brought by political capital. Quid Pro Quo. You help us pass this law about something you care about, and we'll help you pass something you care about.
Which is why you get the same administrations spending money on schools, whilst cutting science.
So every appointment, every task, everything, is weighed up and measured, and sold to the other party in order to achieve other things.
They can't afford to reform it, because so much of every other policy - and indeed how they are elected - is based on the premise that they are already infallible.
Looks.....??? Apparently you've never heard of Janet Reno .......HHHHHAAAAA (8^P
"Surely the criteria for confirmation is competence in the job and political affiliation is irrelevant." Ha ha ha ha. Welcome to American politics. Competence is the absolute last criteria for any job. Our Secretary of Education is the second dumbest person in Washington that wants every school to be a jesus school and thinks schools need guns for grizzly bears. An Exxon CEO was head of the Environmental Protection Agency. The head of the Department of Energy (which usually has been led by a nuclear scientist of some sort since this department handles all things nuclear) is a dude with a bachelor's degree in animal science, was on Dancing with the Stars, and a cotton farmer. A 36-year-old whose only experience is bad real estate deals with his family's money was put in charge of: peace in the Middle East, fixing the opioid epidemic, veteran's affairs, and retooling the federal government, simply because he's someone's son-in-law.
Same reasons why the right refused to confirm Obama's supreme Court nominees even though he had the better part of a year left in office. Which was so ridiculous. I mean if he was in his lameduck part of his term after the election you might've had a case but not in May.
I like how you completely invalidated your argument at the end there.
Toby! Stop flirting!
I love the show, but ist kinda weird that they offer such positions like there is no one who is working it in the moment.
I just imagine how the guy/girl who is the current director finds out they are out lmao.
There is actually a tradition that people placed in high positions will hand in their resignation at the end of a president's term, Presidents are usually reelected and the people in those positions usually stick around because the president refuses to accept their resignation. However by handing in their resignation they free the president to either continue working with them or having someone else assigned to that position without there being any resentment from either side. You know how presidents often promise to do certain things when running for elections, while one person might be great for one aspect of that job, they might not be the best choice for another, so if focus or plans have changed for one department it might make sense to replace the person, even if the previous person was doing a excellent job.
Given that the President was just re-elected there is a good chance that the position that they are talking about was actually vacant because the previous person handed in their resignation and that the president had some new plans for the park service which this new person might be better suited to accomplish.
Usually, these things are arranged well in advance where the current person has privately or even publicly announced they are moving on simply because of better pay or some other benefit.
If a government really cares, they care about people that truly believe in their aspirations and abilities. Everything else is BS.
They could date now. Equals so too speak…..
Can I be the secretary of the State Department? Every immigrant gets a free freedom fries and a Chase credit card with a $100 limit.
That’s not what the Secretary of State does so...
What was this about need more
They do not want to talk to winners. But a loser with enthusiams. Enthusiasm. David Mamet making Al Capone a poet. The Untouchables. A poet. A violent poet. But baseball brings Robert De Niro's Capone Joy in the mourning the fictionally member of his gang that let him down. Who mentioned POTUS 45?
Sorry. I was told via a quote, jeers are weapons of the supposedly weak. How is Carl Paladino? well I trust?
The West Wing brought in these characters and you cheered them off to their new jobs. But let us put say Gaetz Jordan Owens, Boebart and Greene together on something. National Parks say. Lawmakers and zealots of various wings over there. I suggest the first thing on the agenda would be allegedly how to personally make money out of enterprise.
"But let us put say Gaetz Jordan Owens, Boebart and Greene together on something."
I heartily agree. And that "something" would be a huge ice floe in the Arctic Circle.
This lady looks like Scarlett Johansson
was this a real actress? she seems like an amateur
pete275 yes she was
Why? Because she didn't act like an actress? You know that that's the idea, right?
She had recurring role the cop show 'The Shield'.
Democrats are proud of their nepotism...
Idiots are proud of not knowing what nepotism is.
The definition had come a long way from renaissance Vatican. But the principles remain the same...appoint people who have connections, may they be family, friends, fellow party members....
It's especially rich when your guy is putting his daughter and her husband into offices when they have no functional knowledge of government at all. That's actual nepotism.
Nigra, please. If you want to run the gov like a business, cut costs, increase productivity, you have to hire experienced managers from the private sector.
You must be a public servant, scared of losing your job once they start trimming the fat?
Government isn't a business, cannot run like a business, and is nothing like a business. Besides which, even if we go with the idea of putting businessperson in charge of government, I'll take the one who hasn't declared multiple bankruptcies.
None of which has anything to do with you being wrong and hypocritical about nepotism.