For me the 7800 taught me the perils of brand loyalty. I got one instead of a NES and regretted it the day I saw Zelda for the first time. At the end of the day it was just a sexier way to play most 2600 titles (M-Network carts won't fit into the 7800 for some reason).
I got a 7800 before getting an NES. No regrets at all. Sure, the NES got more action out of me once I got it but I still went back to my 7800 often and would have done so more had better access to the games been there.
The fact that they kept the same sound chip from the 2600 with no upgrade was a shockingly incompetent decision. Other than that, nothing wrong with these games, other than the fact that most of them are just updates of titles that we'd already been buying for years. Thinking about how Zelda blew me away when I played it for the first time, I pity those poor kids who got an Atari instead. OR, how 'bout the kids of those parents who fell the for "The Fun is Back" ad and actually got a 2600?
@@speedgriffon2504 I owned a 7800 before I even knew the NES existed. I was pretty happy with it having played the 2600 many times several years earlier. Even after I got an NES, I still revisited my 7800 to play it’s and the 2600s games. I agree about the sound chip. The other big issue was offering the superior D-pad controller only in Europe.
@@speedgriffon2504it wasn't incompetence. There were existing plans to improve the sound chip after the initial prototype release. However by the time of the wide release Atari had been sold to Jack Tramiel and he had 90 days to make the company profitable. He couldn't afford to improve the sound. He basically had to release exactly what they had with zero extra costs. It's less incompetence and more "this needs to go out the door and it needs to make whatever money it can as soon as possible"
I owned a 7800 actually as a kid, in the 90s no less. I remember my uncle being a bit nostalgic for it so he traded me the classic Star Wars trilogy on VHS for it. That was, yeah, that was a great deal for me.
It was the first console we had, my Grandma got it for us when I was around 4-5. so 90,91-ish. It came packed in with 6 or 7 games and we played it until the controllers broke. I have long wondered how long the salesman kept smiling after she left the store.
Desert Falcon was promoted to be a console exclusive but as the market crash became apparent it was quickly developed and produced for other platforms including the 2600 which is rumored to have been coded simultaneously despite the exclusive announcement
We got one of these for Christmas in '86. My dad is a technophile who pretty consistently put his money on the wrong horse back then - we also had a Commodore 128 and, later, the Prodigy service. To his credit, I have fond memories of all three.
Not gonna lie, I have always appreciated how you are open and direct and honest about your intentions to make money with this TH-cam channel. There's absolutely nothing wrong with designing art to make money; the problem comes when people misrepresent their intentions and thus themselves.
I was born in 79 and I love watching about all the systems I grew up with. It also helps me appreciate the ENORMOUS amount of games I have at my fingertips nowadays.
Sure there's hundreds of thousands of games to choose from today, most with great graphics, physics and sound but how many of them are more FUN to play than Centipede?
@@johncollins5552 couldn't agree more. I have always been a fun factor is most important person. I'd rather play Ms Pac Man or like Mega Man 2 than the latest rushed out, overpriced graphics fest.
You have to remember the 7800 was originally going to be launched in 1984 but was shelved till 1986. If it had been released in 84 it probably could have been a hit...if not for the video game crash and Atari's tainted image at the time.
Comparing those two versions of Ikari Warriors shows exactly why the 7800 had no chance. It wasn't even in the same ballpark as the NES. I loved my 5200 though too :)
I’m just glad collecting Atari 7800 is still cheap and not overly expensive like most other Atari consoles. Most games on the 7800 are under $8-$10 sealed.
Wow stuff must have changed in a year because a lot of 7800 games are stupid pricey and others while on the cheaper end are still going for more than the majority of the 2600 library
Karateka isn't the easiest game to pick up and play, however, once you learn the mechanics it's great. You may vaguely recognize the animation technique, as it was created by Jordan Mechner and perfected in his second game, Prince of Persia.
Damn, videogames have come such a long way. I don't think future generations will have nearly as much of an appreciation for videogames as us boomers who grew up with the beeps and boops.
Possibly. But remember the reason they shelved it originally was because the video game market at the time was considered dead and the NES made headroom by being sold and marketed as a toy not a video game system.
I dunno about that. NES hype was the biggest hype I ever lived through. Back then....just seeing that NES controller alone made everyone want one over the "outdated" stick. I like your idea but no. By then we were seeing Atari as outdated...still played it but I do not believe it would have given NES any trouble if it had released then. Just my...I was there observation ;)
No, that wouldn't have changed a thing. Nintendo already had shackled down all big name japanese game publishers with their illegal exclusive contracts. Without proper game support you can't get a system off the ground (unless the big competition makes dumb mistake after dumb mistake, which is the reason why the Master System steamrolled the NES here in Europe and South America, despite not having all the "famous" franchises from Capcom or Konami) And even for 1984 the Atari 7800 was pretty dire on a technical level. The NES has its graphic flaws but looks way better than this pixelated mess. Also Atari was just mis-managed at the time. Warner pretty much killed the company, then, they sold it to Jack Tramiel (who got fired from his own company Commodore because stock holders were unhappy with his leadership) in July 1984 and it started a long, slow decline with a ton of bad releases, bad decisions and only 1 good system (the ST, altough it never could compete with the Amiga)
I owned a 7800. Folks bought this one rather than a Genesis or NES because it played all the 2600 carts. It was very good for what it was. Loved Centipede, Desert Falcon, Ms Pac-Man, and Xevious. Funny thing is that I played a ton of Gyruss too - and that was a 5200 game. I don't remember having a 5200, but I definitely didn't have the 2600 version. My memories are beginning to bleed into each other as I age...
I literally clicked on this because I was wondering, "Did the Atari 7800 that my cousins had when I was a kid actually have any 2D Sidescrolling Platformers on it?" Scrapyard Dog was the only one...wow. They missed out on that genre!
Great video! I just acquired an Atari 7800 recently along with about eight games. Granted they aren't all my favorites, but I've been enjoying everything overall. Truth be told if Nintendo's illegal monopolistic practices regarding third party developers had been struck down by the courts sooner the Atari 7800, and the Sega Master System both would likely have had larger better original game libraries. Both are a case of the potential being there, but not under ideal circumstances to come to fruition.
I love the 7800 controller. I still think the 7800 could have done great if it had released when it was originally intended. If it had a lead on the NES it could have lead to a very different console history
@@Rountree1985 Your reply would be valid if the new ones didn't sound like complete dogshit. Seriously, did he go through and pick all the blandest ones?
Id love to see the Atari XE game system library review next. It seems like a very interesting and somewhat capable system. I remember 8-Bit Guys review of it. He was trying to figure out what was the best home system to play the classic games from the early 80s on and he picked the Atari XE cuz of the games available for it plus it had composite instead of just RF. Pretty interesting video.
Great video! Classic atari games bring me an extra large dose of nostalgia and memories from childhood! I like the format and the rating scale! Good job!
I grew up with the 7800, the Master System and NES, mom was a gamer. And this list just takes me back! Dark Chambers and Tower Toppler are two of my favorites on the 7200.
I'm an older gamer, and this was the Era I grew up in. I never had a 7800, but had a Commodore 128 and my buddy had a 64. Between us we had almost all the games you showcased here. It was a fun blast of memories and nostalgia. To this day we have an inside joke involving us breaking out in "...another visitor...stay a while....stay forEVAAAH! Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha..."
With Dark Chambers, the reason the monsters change is probably to save RAM, instead of having two variables per enemy to see what its health is and what type it is, just have one variable that says what its health is and then change its type according to its health. That's my best guess
Dark chambers had shooting the monster switches it to another monster. Sprites and memory. 4k of system memory was available but not all of it. To work around this the reused sprite was used. Since you couldn’t have to many on the screen just reassign sprites to make mobs challenging
I still have a 7800, but only 2 games for it (just pole position 2, pac man was a 2600 cart.) Now I'm aware of the library of games for the 7800. Thanks!!!
When I was going to college, I worked at a pawn shop that focused on video games, CDs, Blu-rays, and DVDs. One day a guy brought in an Atari 7200 with cables, a two boxes of games. I bought it from the guy and found out the games were the entire catalog. It works perfectly and is in mint condition, included a working light gun, and has some good moments, but it's been sitting in a bigger box at the bottom of a closet for years. There's just no compelling reason to play it when I have a 2600, Master System, and NES.
Ah, the 7800. My first system ever. Mom gave one to me, I think I was five years old, so back in 1987 or 88. I had asked for an NES and got this instead one of those years for Christmas. The thing about the 7800 was... it could play all the older Atari systems' games.
Great video, thanks... toying with the idea of buying a 7800 to add to my retro collection so this was a very informative and honest take on the system and games.
Other than the sound chip, this should have had rough the same punch as the NES. Sort of disappointing that it didn’t really have the epic games that the NES had. Such potential!
I have been looking forward to this. Mostly cause this was the first video I ever saw from you. Hopefully you don’t take that the wrong way. I decided to stick around after all.
7800 was my first console, with that said the controller was never uncomfortable for me. It was leagues ahead of the 2600 controllers we had that WERE quite uncomfortable to use by comparison. We eventually got a Sega Genesis and the controller for that wasn't any better. There simply wasn't as much to hold onto compared to the 7800's so your hand were sort of crammed onto the controller. It was really with the N64 and PS1 that controllers beat the 7800 for comfort in my experience. They gave you something to really grip that wasn't so close to the buttons.
I've been over this before with multiple others - the protagonist is the lead role, not necessarily always the hero, and the antagonist is whoever and whatever is the strongest opposition to the lead role, not necessarily always the villain. Sometimes, the protagonist of the show _is_ the villain and the antagonist the hero, like with Invader Zim. And sometimes, like with Tom and Jerry, they're _both_ villains.
You think the enemies in Kung Fu Masters are getting “stuck?” They’re grabbing you and draining your life bar, my dude. It’s not a glitch. You wiggle your way free.
I actually opted for this as a Christmas present over the NES back in 87. Yea...i was an Atari fanboy at the time who was being stubborn. But as someone who had aspirations of being a pilot early on...i greatly enjoyed the systems variety of flight sims (having gotten my start on Space Shuttle back on the 2600). I dont regret it. Had alot of fun with Food Fight, Joust, Dig Dug, and Xevious also. I would eventually come around to the NES in 89, but i still have my 7800 console and games. Thanks for the walk down memory lane
I grew up with the Atari 2600, 7800, NES and the Sega Master System, mom was a gamer. I can't tell you which system was better, because I went back and forth between them all. The 7800 Had some of my favorite games. Now I'm starting to see why some people said that I was spoiled, most families only had one system at a time. Anyways time to play some Tower Toppler.
The Atari 7800 was never on my radar when it was current. My first foray into gaming started Christmas Eve and Christmas day of 1986. I received an Nes from my mother and a Sega Master System from my father (divorced parents). I was very young but I was just old enough to appreciate them both. I remember the old 7800 commercials with the rapping kids "under 50 bucks"...that made me want one even less.
@@mpacino1224 There is a very good reason...well, there's an understandable one and a very stupid one. Understandable- When I was born I was diagnosed with a severe medical disability. Since birth I have had eight neurological procedures (brain surgeries) so far and more to come in the future. I also have had 5 major surgeries on my stomach as well. I am also blind in one eye stemming from one of my many, many surgeries. Basically, I was unable to have a normal childhood like everyone else. My parents were so happy I found something I loved they fully supported it. Think of it like playing for a baseball or football team. I made a lot of friends as a gamer and our house was the neighborhood hangout. Stupid- While my parents worked together to make sure I had a stable childhood (smart), they regularly completed with each other. If my dad bought me a game my mother was ready to buy me two. I was always greatful for everything I got and I tried to stop them on many occasion. I would tell them that doing stuff like that was completely unnecessary and they still did it anyway. It didn't stop until I became an adult after I really put my foot down. Crazy.
I had the 7800 as a kid. Pole position was the game I played the most. Double Dragon was my favorite game on a NES and still is next to a Super Mario 3 of course but as far as the 7800 you're right it is not easy to play at all plus the NES version has the greatest opening title song of all time I think and first level song.
The 7800 was okay, but I don’t think many top developers would have wasted their time with it even if Nintendo had less restrictions. Atari’s reputation was poor and the NES benefited largely from third-party Japanese companies (Capcom, Konami, etc.) that were already producing games for the Famicom in Japan. I don’t even think the 7800 got a release in Japan.
@@wavefront9221 Atari Corporation is a bruh moment. Mainly with how they handled the Jaguar which ultimately killed the company. I know Atari was split into 2 entities in 1984 with the Arcade division becoming "Atari Games", Atari Corporation was Jack Tramiel's company
The Atari 7800 graphics works completely different from the tile-based graphics used by NES/SMS and their 16-bit successors. I don't think many developers would have bothered with it even if they were allowed to port their games to it
@@Phredreeke indeed. It was more difficult to program games for the 7800. The Atari 7800 did do some things better than the NES, for instance Andor Genesis being a sprite in Xevious 7800. In the NES version, he was a background element which is understandable since the NES couldn't handle massive sprites without suffering
If you turn your shields back on when the Jaggie jumps on your ship, it fries him. That scared the crap out of me in middle school the first time I saw it.
It seems that Atari should’ve used that special sound chip in more of their games. Maybe it was too difficult to use with greater frequency. Either way, it’s a real shame.
@@Nestalgba92023 correct. Sega did something similar with its Master System. They had specific games that utilized better sound and it was a significant improvement. I think it wound up being the same sound chip that was used on the Mega Drive/Genesis.
If you went directly from 2600 to 7200 and then yes you would have. I knew one guy who had the 7800 while I had the 2600, and that was directly in 1987 just before we moved away and I never saw him again. That system had me fascinated at the time for how much of a step up it was from my own. Still NES was already out at that point for a few years as was the master system and both had superior sound chips, controllers, and more support. I didn't know that until 1990.
@@xenxander Yeah, me too. About a year & 1/2 later he upgraded to the SNES & we to the Sega Genesis... what an awesome time for gaming that was, though!
As an owner of a 7800, a few of the things you said were a bit off. I also have a compatible lightgun and most of its games, so I can give more info on those if you want. Cracked: It's actually a joystick game. You can also catch an egg midair by holding the button and drop in the nest. That's required to get far in the game, but it's also distracting as the enemies keep coming for the others. It's still an OK game at best, as that's basically the majority of the game and gets old fast. Karateka: The right button toggles the fighting stance. The controls are explained in the manual, but actually blocking or landing a hit can be confusing. I could only ever get as far as the level with the bird. There seems to be a glitch that makes the bastard nearly impossible to hit, which makes it nearly impossible to win. It's an otherwise OK game. Just needs controls that work better with the controller. Well, it really needs a better controller, but that's another matter. Sentinels: more or less accurate. It's merely an OK lightgun game, still better than Barnyard. The system had better gun games. Overall, I agree. The 7800 had few decent titles and few exclusives that where worth bothering with. It was hobbled by bad sound and joysticks design, released years late and horribly marketed due to bad management , especially in it's later years when Atari dropped most of their retail presence.
I bought one recently and imported a European controller. It's definitely leagues above the terrible American controller, though the buttons feel a but stiff
What if I told you two directions were technically possible to input on an Atari 2600? One digital joystick and one analog joystick? And all on one controller? The controller would have been so expensive or using technology that didn't exist when it did, but it can technically take those inputs. In fact, you could technically do the analog joystick as an addon for a regular controller.
@@DoomRater Technically yes. but then you'd be left with 2600's single fire button. The 7800 controller also used the two analog pot inputs to distinguish the left and right buttons in 7800 games.
A single fire button would be all that's needed (or in the case of Karateka, not really?) for the game I'm thinking of. For other games, you'd probably want to extend all the joystick directions as buttons instead, which would result in an analog joystick controller and 5 buttons.
Don’t know if you did(after looking didn’t see your thumbnail on possible answers) ,but i am interested of getting a Colecovision. A games review(with expanding modules)maybe? I just love that console.
I like the new additions, Frame. I just wish that the games that you say have bad sound you’d let us hear them. I had to go to another video to see exactly what you were talking about with Jinks. However now I can see why you may had spared us the pain.
To make this video perfect I would have to completely redo it, unfortunately I just don't have the passion for that. Covering the 7800 the first time was enough for me but I revisited this due to popular demand.
I still have a 5200 and a 7200, with about a total of 277 games. It all still works and everything is original, however I did have to recap the 5200. I don't think I'll ever get rid of them either. I still play quite a few of the games with my younger nieces and nephews, and it was the last thing my papa bought me before he passed away.
With Impossible Mission, you have to collect every single item. However, some of these items are hidden in unsearchable objects, and one of the items apparently just doesn’t exist in the game. Hence why the game is impossible. However, the pal version fixed the issue.
It's so interesting to see how much more vibrant and broadly colorful the 7800 is, and yet it still has those comparatively chunky pixels compared to the NES.
#1: Karateka on the Apple II was one of the best games in 1986 to play at home. #2: Anytime you see "Bros." It's short for "Brothers." It's why the period is there.
The reason enemies "demote" in Dark Chambers as they're shot is because that's how it worked in the Atari 8-bit computer game it's a port of, Dandy Dungeon (which directly inspired Gauntlet). The reason it worked that way in Dandy is because in Dandy, enemies had no internal data representation. Instead, they were literally their onscreen graphics characters in the background tilemap. To move them the game engine scanned the tile buffer for enemy graphics and moved them toward the player, like a simple cellular automaton. This scheme allowed populating the dungeons with any arbitrary number of enemies without using any more RAM, but each enemy had no internal state, like health. So instead the author faked it by having multiple enemy types that demoted when shot. The later console ports of Dandy, now renamed to Dark Chambers, DID use sprites for enemies and could have given them health points and different behaviors, but they didn't do this for some reason. Maybe they didn't want to get sued for making an unauthorized Gauntlet knockoff, or maybe they wanted to limit the gameplay to what an Atari 2600 could handle so all three versions would play the same.
Definitely a great improvement over the original video. Even as a big fan of the 7800, I would agree that it was too little, too late. The graphics chip was really good, but the sound was definitely lacking. I know that the TIA handled both the 2600's graphics and sound, which was why the 7800 was able to play 2600 games. But they're definitely could have been room for a POKEY as well. The system was supposed to come out in 1984, but was delayed due to the crash. And I believe both that and the NES came out nationwide in 1986. So, it couldn't stand a chance. I think that if the 5200 was never released and the 7800 came out in 1984 like intented, then it could have been a different story. The 7800 definitely had potential when it came to graphics, with the big selling point being that it had practically no sprite flicker. It also had more exclusives when compared to the 5200, which had almost none aside from Countermeasure. At the very least, homebrew devs have been doing a great job of breathing new life into the system. I own a physical copy of Rikki & Vikki and it is a fantastic puzzle game. Pac-Man Collection, Super Pac-Man, Froggie, and Beef Drop are also quite good, with promising ports of Arkanoid and Popeye on the horizon. Also, one final note. Atari missed a big opportunity to make the 7800 controller both a joystick and a paddle.
Karateka is one of those games that you need to learn the wonky controls, when you do it's rather good. You have 2 stances you can alternate, running and fighting. Running equals a one hit death if you take a hit while in it, fighting does not.
I still give it a “Bad” grade (1). I begged my mom to get this for my birthday back in 1989. She was like “wouldn’t you rather have Joust?” And I was like, “No, mom, that game is too old”. Always listen to your mom.....
Interesting take but being a fan of early 80s arcade games, I love a lot of the ports on this system and the new homebrew games that have been coming out in the last few years really make this console worth owning
So I watched AVGN talk about the cover to scrapyard dog and the guy's nose, so seeing that his nose is so prominent in the actual game is hilarious to me.
A girl I lived with in the early 90s had an old 7800. I grew to love it on some level, and realized it was a better system than it was credited for. I definitely played the crap out of it over several months, at the expense of my "better" systems. The 7800 wasn't bad, it was just two years too late (It sat in a warehouse after the 1984 crash for years before being released, allowing the NES time to take the market with a newer system.) and had the Atari problem of just releasing the same games over and over. I mean, I don't care how good of a copy of Pac-Man it was, it was still the same game I owned copies of for multiple other systems already. When it came down to "Metroid" or "Yet another Pac-Man", the choice wasn't difficult. And it showed with the games, imo. The BEST Atari 7800 games were on the same level as a DECENT NES game in terms of graphics and playability. The best NES games were leaps ahead of the best Atari 7800 games. Again, I had a lot of fun playing the 7800, but I also understand why it lost in against Nintendo and Sega at the time as well.
The Sega Master System port of Choplifter is the best, containing ALL levels. The 7800 port only has the first level. It was also ported to the Famicom, but that version is so bad it didn't get released for the NES.
30:58 the game is designed to be played with composite video which cause artifact colors (I have no idea why they used 320 pixel mode with artifact colors over the standard 160 pixel mode used by most 7800 games)
@@Tom-jw7ii I used the term composite video to distinguish it from RGB and S-video signals. the RF output of the Atari 7800 would have the same artifacts
You say you fixed the video but All the game footage is stretched beyond the intended 4:3 aspect ratio. Still your dedication to revisiting your old videos and fixing things you were unhappy with is commendable. Keep up the good work.
None of the footage is stretched actually. A lot of games have big black bars above and below the image, I just removed those and zoomed in the picture. Admittedly I don't do this anymore to preserve technical authenticity, but the image of the games should be accurate to their intended presentation.
I have all but 4 commercial releases. AtariAge sells an adapter called the Seagull 78 Controller Adapter. It allows you to use a Genesis controller, mapping the 2 7800 controller buttons to two buttons on the Genesis controller. It works great!
Great vids, just wondering why no in-game sound though? 7800 was odd, especially the sound issue. Such potential. And I'm not sure if it were solely due to licencing, but why so few popular arcade ports? There were so many in the classic era of 1979 into the early 80s? You'd think a strong line-up of those would have helped sales?
For me the 7800 taught me the perils of brand loyalty. I got one instead of a NES and regretted it the day I saw Zelda for the first time. At the end of the day it was just a sexier way to play most 2600 titles (M-Network carts won't fit into the 7800 for some reason).
Certain carts wouldn't fit because the plastic piece that surrounds the cartridge slot in the system itself
I got a 7800 before getting an NES. No regrets at all. Sure, the NES got more action out of me once I got it but I still went back to my 7800 often and would have done so more had better access to the games been there.
The fact that they kept the same sound chip from the 2600 with no upgrade was a shockingly incompetent decision. Other than that, nothing wrong with these games, other than the fact that most of them are just updates of titles that we'd already been buying for years. Thinking about how Zelda blew me away when I played it for the first time, I pity those poor kids who got an Atari instead. OR, how 'bout the kids of those parents who fell the for "The Fun is Back" ad and actually got a 2600?
@@speedgriffon2504 I owned a 7800 before I even knew the NES existed. I was pretty happy with it having played the 2600 many times several years earlier. Even after I got an NES, I still revisited my 7800 to play it’s and the 2600s games.
I agree about the sound chip. The other big issue was offering the superior D-pad controller only in Europe.
@@speedgriffon2504it wasn't incompetence. There were existing plans to improve the sound chip after the initial prototype release. However by the time of the wide release Atari had been sold to Jack Tramiel and he had 90 days to make the company profitable. He couldn't afford to improve the sound. He basically had to release exactly what they had with zero extra costs. It's less incompetence and more "this needs to go out the door and it needs to make whatever money it can as soon as possible"
I owned a 7800 actually as a kid, in the 90s no less. I remember my uncle being a bit nostalgic for it so he traded me the classic Star Wars trilogy on VHS for it. That was, yeah, that was a great deal for me.
It was the first console we had, my Grandma got it for us when I was around 4-5. so 90,91-ish. It came packed in with 6 or 7 games and we played it until the controllers broke. I have long wondered how long the salesman kept smiling after she left the store.
Now this is a gent who takes pride in his channel.
I had a 7800 back in the day and I loved it. Desert Falcon was my jam. :)
Desert Falcon was promoted to be a console exclusive but as the market crash became apparent it was quickly developed and produced for other platforms including the 2600 which is rumored to have been coded simultaneously despite the exclusive announcement
We got one of these for Christmas in '86. My dad is a technophile who pretty consistently put his money on the wrong horse back then - we also had a Commodore 128 and, later, the Prodigy service. To his credit, I have fond memories of all three.
As a person who owned a Jaguar when everyone else had a Playstation, I sympathize with your dad.
Not gonna lie, I have always appreciated how you are open and direct and honest about your intentions to make money with this TH-cam channel. There's absolutely nothing wrong with designing art to make money; the problem comes when people misrepresent their intentions and thus themselves.
Indeed
I was born in 79 and I love watching about all the systems I grew up with. It also helps me appreciate the ENORMOUS amount of games I have at my fingertips nowadays.
Sure there's hundreds of thousands of games to choose from today, most with great graphics, physics and sound but how many of them are more FUN to play than Centipede?
@@johncollins5552 couldn't agree more. I have always been a fun factor is most important person. I'd rather play Ms Pac Man or like Mega Man 2 than the latest rushed out, overpriced graphics fest.
@@johncollins5552to this day, I often find myself playing games like Enduro and Radar Lock. So much fun. And I wasn't even born in the past century!
It’s a shame the relatively advanced graphics chip was paired with the same sound chip as the 2600. It would be a great arcade system otherwise.
Agreed the sound chip was a flipping joke.
@Swilly Billy Yes. it would have been on par with the NES if it would have had more memory and a better sound chip.
You have to remember the 7800 was originally going to be launched in 1984 but was shelved till 1986. If it had been released in 84 it probably could have been a hit...if not for the video game crash and Atari's tainted image at the time.
Comparing those two versions of Ikari Warriors shows exactly why the 7800 had no chance. It wasn't even in the same ballpark as the NES. I loved my 5200 though too :)
Honestly it was just a meh console really. Even back in '84 it was just a boring experience. Only 3 games on it were worth getting.
I’m just glad collecting Atari 7800 is still cheap and not overly expensive like most other Atari consoles. Most games on the 7800 are under $8-$10 sealed.
Wow stuff must have changed in a year because a lot of 7800 games are stupid pricey and others while on the cheaper end are still going for more than the majority of the 2600 library
Karateka isn't the easiest game to pick up and play, however, once you learn the mechanics it's great. You may vaguely recognize the animation technique, as it was created by Jordan Mechner and perfected in his second game, Prince of Persia.
Finally, The Atari 7800 Deserves some recognition.
Damn, videogames have come such a long way. I don't think future generations will have nearly as much of an appreciation for videogames as us boomers who grew up with the beeps and boops.
*As us gen-x-ers. FTFY. Boomers were already grown up by the time the pong consoles, Channel F, VCS, iTV, Coleco etc all showed up.
Personally find the old atari games to be okay just nothing memorable. The Nes games were a Great evolution though
The 7800 games already look pretty decent when compared to the 2600 games.
I'm happy to have grown up in the 8 bit era and beyond. The appreciation I have for gaming as a result of that is priceless
@@jonahabenhaim1223 that's where my real nostalgia starts as well.
It has returned!!!! Thank you, this is even better
Now imagine if they released the 7800 in 1984 like they were supposed to. It would've been a much bigger hit and would go toe to toe with the NES.
Possibly. But remember the reason they shelved it originally was because the video game market at the time was considered dead and the NES made headroom by being sold and marketed as a toy not a video game system.
I dunno about that. NES hype was the biggest hype I ever lived through. Back then....just seeing that NES controller alone made everyone want one over the "outdated" stick. I like your idea but no. By then we were seeing Atari as outdated...still played it but I do not believe it would have given NES any trouble if it had released then. Just my...I was there observation ;)
No, that wouldn't have changed a thing. Nintendo already had shackled down all big name japanese game publishers with their illegal exclusive contracts. Without proper game support you can't get a system off the ground (unless the big competition makes dumb mistake after dumb mistake, which is the reason why the Master System steamrolled the NES here in Europe and South America, despite not having all the "famous" franchises from Capcom or Konami)
And even for 1984 the Atari 7800 was pretty dire on a technical level. The NES has its graphic flaws but looks way better than this pixelated mess.
Also Atari was just mis-managed at the time. Warner pretty much killed the company, then, they sold it to Jack Tramiel (who got fired from his own company Commodore because stock holders were unhappy with his leadership) in July 1984 and it started a long, slow decline with a ton of bad releases, bad decisions and only 1 good system (the ST, altough it never could compete with the Amiga)
Not really. The audio is crap even on the 2 exceptions and the graphics for the most part suck in every game.
Atari was a PARIAH by 1984. Video Games weren't dead. People just hated Atari and wanted nothing to do with them.
I owned a 7800. Folks bought this one rather than a Genesis or NES because it played all the 2600 carts. It was very good for what it was. Loved Centipede, Desert Falcon, Ms Pac-Man, and Xevious.
Funny thing is that I played a ton of Gyruss too - and that was a 5200 game. I don't remember having a 5200, but I definitely didn't have the 2600 version. My memories are beginning to bleed into each other as I age...
I literally clicked on this because I was wondering, "Did the Atari 7800 that my cousins had when I was a kid actually have any 2D Sidescrolling Platformers on it?" Scrapyard Dog was the only one...wow. They missed out on that genre!
The 7800 and Vectrex were my systems growing up, I once played Galaga until the game crashed.
Great video! I just acquired an Atari 7800 recently along with about eight games. Granted they aren't all my favorites, but I've been enjoying everything overall. Truth be told if Nintendo's illegal monopolistic practices regarding third party developers had been struck down by the courts sooner the Atari 7800, and the Sega Master System both would likely have had larger better original game libraries. Both are a case of the potential being there, but not under ideal circumstances to come to fruition.
I love the 7800 controller. I still think the 7800 could have done great if it had released when it was originally intended. If it had a lead on the NES it could have lead to a very different console history
The pal controller did.
Holy crap, the old "Yeah, Framerater!", it sounds so much better!
New thing bad old thing good DAE
@@Rountree1985 Your reply would be valid if the new ones didn't sound like complete dogshit. Seriously, did he go through and pick all the blandest ones?
Id love to see the Atari XE game system library review next. It seems like a very interesting and somewhat capable system. I remember 8-Bit Guys review of it. He was trying to figure out what was the best home system to play the classic games from the early 80s on and he picked the Atari XE cuz of the games available for it plus it had composite instead of just RF. Pretty interesting video.
Great video! Classic atari games bring me an extra large dose of nostalgia and memories from childhood! I like the format and the rating scale! Good job!
“Dark chambers makes for a great 7800 experience”
- Excellent score bumps out
So, we didn't miss much with 7800! (The Atari 800 computers were delivering some more detailed gameplay at the time.)
The 7800 had some exclusive titles no one else had, so that's why I like it
Bravo, sir.
The 7800 was the deathrattle of Atari.
I grew up with the 7800, the Master System and NES, mom was a gamer. And this list just takes me back! Dark Chambers and Tower Toppler are two of my favorites on the 7200.
the timeline where this genius series never started intimidates me.
I'm an older gamer, and this was the Era I grew up in. I never had a 7800, but had a Commodore 128 and my buddy had a 64. Between us we had almost all the games you showcased here. It was a fun blast of memories and nostalgia. To this day we have an inside joke involving us breaking out in "...another visitor...stay a while....stay forEVAAAH! Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha..."
With Dark Chambers, the reason the monsters change is probably to save RAM, instead of having two variables per enemy to see what its health is and what type it is, just have one variable that says what its health is and then change its type according to its health. That's my best guess
Ouch that CGR reference...
What happened?
Dark chambers had shooting the monster switches it to another monster. Sprites and memory. 4k of system memory was available but not all of it. To work around this the reused sprite was used. Since you couldn’t have to many on the screen just reassign sprites to make mobs challenging
I still have a 7800, but only 2 games for it (just pole position 2, pac man was a 2600 cart.) Now I'm aware of the library of games for the 7800. Thanks!!!
When I was going to college, I worked at a pawn shop that focused on video games, CDs, Blu-rays, and DVDs. One day a guy brought in an Atari 7200 with cables, a two boxes of games. I bought it from the guy and found out the games were the entire catalog. It works perfectly and is in mint condition, included a working light gun, and has some good moments, but it's been sitting in a bigger box at the bottom of a closet for years. There's just no compelling reason to play it when I have a 2600, Master System, and NES.
Tower toppler is called nebulus on other systems and is great. It’s more of a memorisation puzzle game, thus the time limit.
Ah, the 7800. My first system ever. Mom gave one to me, I think I was five years old, so back in 1987 or 88. I had asked for an NES and got this instead one of those years for Christmas. The thing about the 7800 was... it could play all the older Atari systems' games.
7800 was my first console ever and I played the heck out of it back in that day. Those controllers gave me hand cramps though.
"fix your damn sound, Atari..." Oh boy, I don't think they will 😂
Great video, thanks... toying with the idea of buying a 7800 to add to my retro collection so this was a very informative and honest take on the system and games.
Other than the sound chip, this should have had rough the same punch as the NES. Sort of disappointing that it didn’t really have the epic games that the NES had. Such potential!
I have been looking forward to this. Mostly cause this was the first video I ever saw from you. Hopefully you don’t take that the wrong way. I decided to stick around after all.
7800 was my first console, with that said the controller was never uncomfortable for me. It was leagues ahead of the 2600 controllers we had that WERE quite uncomfortable to use by comparison. We eventually got a Sega Genesis and the controller for that wasn't any better. There simply wasn't as much to hold onto compared to the 7800's so your hand were sort of crammed onto the controller. It was really with the N64 and PS1 that controllers beat the 7800 for comfort in my experience. They gave you something to really grip that wasn't so close to the buttons.
I've been over this before with multiple others - the protagonist is the lead role, not necessarily always the hero, and the antagonist is whoever and whatever is the strongest opposition to the lead role, not necessarily always the villain. Sometimes, the protagonist of the show _is_ the villain and the antagonist the hero, like with Invader Zim. And sometimes, like with Tom and Jerry, they're _both_ villains.
I've found this channel relatively recently, keep up the good work these videos are amazing!
hey im glad to see more of this series
This is the Star Wars special edition of framerater videos
You think the enemies in Kung Fu Masters are getting “stuck?” They’re grabbing you and draining your life bar, my dude. It’s not a glitch. You wiggle your way free.
I actually opted for this as a Christmas present over the NES back in 87. Yea...i was an Atari fanboy at the time who was being stubborn. But as someone who had aspirations of being a pilot early on...i greatly enjoyed the systems variety of flight sims (having gotten my start on Space Shuttle back on the 2600).
I dont regret it. Had alot of fun with Food Fight, Joust, Dig Dug, and Xevious also. I would eventually come around to the NES in 89, but i still have my 7800 console and games.
Thanks for the walk down memory lane
This video is fantastic, thanks for sharing. Although I'm a bit late to the party, it was a fun video to watch and informative as well.
Fun fact: Karateka was made by the guy who made Prince of Persia. That was a huge leap in quality.
Pretty decent gfx and lovely colours, I liked the 7800
I grew up with the Atari 2600, 7800, NES and the Sega Master System, mom was a gamer. I can't tell you which system was better, because I went back and forth between them all. The 7800 Had some of my favorite games. Now I'm starting to see why some people said that I was spoiled, most families only had one system at a time. Anyways time to play some Tower Toppler.
Crossbow is a great arcade conversion. And I agree. Asteroids has aged very well
The Atari 7800 was never on my radar when it was current. My first foray into gaming started Christmas Eve and Christmas day of 1986. I received an Nes from my mother and a Sega Master System from my father (divorced parents). I was very young but I was just old enough to appreciate them both. I remember the old 7800 commercials with the rapping kids "under 50 bucks"...that made me want one even less.
My divorced parents didn't buy me things I actually wanted lol. But I did get to play Colocovision at my Dad's. That was pretty awesome.
@@mpacino1224
There is a very good reason...well, there's an understandable one and a very stupid one.
Understandable-
When I was born I was diagnosed with a severe medical disability. Since birth I have had eight neurological procedures (brain surgeries) so far and more to come in the future. I also have had 5 major surgeries on my stomach as well. I am also blind in one eye stemming from one of my many, many surgeries. Basically, I was unable to have a normal childhood like everyone else. My parents were so happy I found something I loved they fully supported it. Think of it like playing for a baseball or football team. I made a lot of friends as a gamer and our house was the neighborhood hangout.
Stupid- While my parents worked together to make sure I had a stable childhood (smart), they regularly completed with each other. If my dad bought me a game my mother was ready to buy me two. I was always greatful for everything I got and I tried to stop them on many occasion. I would tell them that doing stuff like that was completely unnecessary and they still did it anyway. It didn't stop until I became an adult after I really put my foot down. Crazy.
I had the 7800 as a kid. Pole position was the game I played the most. Double Dragon was my favorite game on a NES and still is next to a Super Mario 3 of course but as far as the 7800 you're right it is not easy to play at all plus the NES version has the greatest opening title song of all time I think and first level song.
The 7800 wasn't that bad, it was Nintendo who contractually obliged all the good companies to make exclusives for the NES. It's a bit disappointing.
Similar situation with the Sega Master System, at least in the US/Japan.
The 7800 was okay, but I don’t think many top developers would have wasted their time with it even if Nintendo had less restrictions. Atari’s reputation was poor and the NES benefited largely from third-party Japanese companies (Capcom, Konami, etc.) that were already producing games for the Famicom in Japan. I don’t even think the 7800 got a release in Japan.
@@wavefront9221 Atari Corporation is a bruh moment. Mainly with how they handled the Jaguar which ultimately killed the company. I know Atari was split into 2 entities in 1984 with the Arcade division becoming "Atari Games", Atari Corporation was Jack Tramiel's company
The Atari 7800 graphics works completely different from the tile-based graphics used by NES/SMS and their 16-bit successors. I don't think many developers would have bothered with it even if they were allowed to port their games to it
@@Phredreeke indeed. It was more difficult to program games for the 7800.
The Atari 7800 did do some things better than the NES, for instance Andor Genesis being a sprite in Xevious 7800. In the NES version, he was a background element which is understandable since the NES couldn't handle massive sprites without suffering
Great video,keep it up!🎮
If you turn your shields back on when the Jaggie jumps on your ship, it fries him.
That scared the crap out of me in middle school the first time I saw it.
It seems that Atari should’ve used that special sound chip in more of their games. Maybe it was too difficult to use with greater frequency. Either way, it’s a real shame.
Such as Atari's…Pokey sound chip, right?
@@Nestalgba92023 correct. Sega did something similar with its Master System. They had specific games that utilized better sound and it was a significant improvement. I think it wound up being the same sound chip that was used on the Mega Drive/Genesis.
The melody from Kangaroo on 2600 is the definitive "video game sound as a punishment" for me
My cousin had the 7800 as a follow-up to the 2600. We absolutely LOVED it.
If you went directly from 2600 to 7200 and then yes you would have. I knew one guy who had the 7800 while I had the 2600, and that was directly in 1987 just before we moved away and I never saw him again. That system had me fascinated at the time for how much of a step up it was from my own.
Still NES was already out at that point for a few years as was the master system and both had superior sound chips, controllers, and more support.
I didn't know that until 1990.
@@xenxander Yeah, me too. About a year & 1/2 later he upgraded to the SNES & we to the Sega Genesis... what an awesome time for gaming that was, though!
I've owned a 7800 since 1987. To this moment I had no idea it had a lightgun.
As an owner of a 7800, a few of the things you said were a bit off. I also have a compatible lightgun and most of its games, so I can give more info on those if you want.
Cracked: It's actually a joystick game. You can also catch an egg midair by holding the button and drop in the nest. That's required to get far in the game, but it's also distracting as the enemies keep coming for the others. It's still an OK game at best, as that's basically the majority of the game and gets old fast.
Karateka: The right button toggles the fighting stance. The controls are explained in the manual, but actually blocking or landing a hit can be confusing. I could only ever get as far as the level with the bird. There seems to be a glitch that makes the bastard nearly impossible to hit, which makes it nearly impossible to win. It's an otherwise OK game. Just needs controls that work better with the controller. Well, it really needs a better controller, but that's another matter.
Sentinels: more or less accurate. It's merely an OK lightgun game, still better than Barnyard. The system had better gun games.
Overall, I agree. The 7800 had few decent titles and few exclusives that where worth bothering with. It was hobbled by bad sound and joysticks design, released years late and horribly marketed due to bad management , especially in it's later years when Atari dropped most of their retail presence.
I bought one recently and imported a European controller. It's definitely leagues above the terrible American controller, though the buttons feel a but stiff
What if I told you two directions were technically possible to input on an Atari 2600? One digital joystick and one analog joystick? And all on one controller? The controller would have been so expensive or using technology that didn't exist when it did, but it can technically take those inputs. In fact, you could technically do the analog joystick as an addon for a regular controller.
@@DoomRater Technically yes. but then you'd be left with 2600's single fire button. The 7800 controller also used the two analog pot inputs to distinguish the left and right buttons in 7800 games.
A single fire button would be all that's needed (or in the case of Karateka, not really?) for the game I'm thinking of. For other games, you'd probably want to extend all the joystick directions as buttons instead, which would result in an analog joystick controller and 5 buttons.
@@DoomRater Better joystick configurations were certainly possible. I would settle for a standard controller that was usable.
Great vid! Cant wait to see a PCE/TurboGrafx/CD/SuperGrafx video from you. The latter would be easy with like 7 games lol.
i love your humor and sarcasm
Dear lord, Rikki and Vikki looks impressive.
i got a 7800 as a gift and immediately returned it for an Nes
"I will return!..........I'm back"
That needs to be a meme. Lol
Alien Brigade was just Atari's Operation Wolf. Huge similarities
Don’t know if you did(after looking didn’t see your thumbnail on possible answers) ,but i am interested of getting a Colecovision. A games review(with expanding modules)maybe? I just love that console.
I like the new additions, Frame. I just wish that the games that you say have bad sound you’d let us hear them. I had to go to another video to see exactly what you were talking about with Jinks.
However now I can see why you may had spared us the pain.
To make this video perfect I would have to completely redo it, unfortunately I just don't have the passion for that. Covering the 7800 the first time was enough for me but I revisited this due to popular demand.
I still have a 5200 and a 7200, with about a total of 277 games. It all still works and everything is original, however I did have to recap the 5200. I don't think I'll ever get rid of them either. I still play quite a few of the games with my younger nieces and nephews, and it was the last thing my papa bought me before he passed away.
I'm glad you called Joust and Xevious "Excellent". Had 'em both
Crossbow was an arcade port, and in the arcade, there was a physical mounted crossbow controller pointed at the screen.
With Impossible Mission, you have to collect every single item. However, some of these items are hidden in unsearchable objects, and one of the items apparently just doesn’t exist in the game. Hence why the game is impossible. However, the pal version fixed the issue.
This video is why im happy!
It's so interesting to see how much more vibrant and broadly colorful the 7800 is, and yet it still has those comparatively chunky pixels compared to the NES.
YOU forgot the WARP on DESERT FALCON 5:15... loved that game
I never would've guessed the 7800 sold better than the 5200. I had a 5200 as well as a few friends, but I knew nobody who had a 7800.
Love your video. Great idea to do all the 7800 games! =) You're funny guy, too. lol Subscribed!
26:53 Missing a "Chapter" for Scrapyard Dog...one of my favourite games on the Atari Lynx! Which isn't saying much.
11:41 Donkey Kong was a stand-in for Bluto because Nintendo lost the rights to use the Popeye IP in their games.
#1: Karateka on the Apple II was one of the best games in 1986 to play at home.
#2: Anytime you see "Bros." It's short for "Brothers." It's why the period is there.
Why is it incorrect to say "bros"? Haven't you heard the phrase 'chillin with my bros'?
@@FrameRater notice that you didn't use a period? Nobody says etc. as "etca."
That Lucasfilm Games game scared the crap out of me as a kid.
The reason enemies "demote" in Dark Chambers as they're shot is because that's how it worked in the Atari 8-bit computer game it's a port of, Dandy Dungeon (which directly inspired Gauntlet). The reason it worked that way in Dandy is because in Dandy, enemies had no internal data representation. Instead, they were literally their onscreen graphics characters in the background tilemap. To move them the game engine scanned the tile buffer for enemy graphics and moved them toward the player, like a simple cellular automaton. This scheme allowed populating the dungeons with any arbitrary number of enemies without using any more RAM, but each enemy had no internal state, like health. So instead the author faked it by having multiple enemy types that demoted when shot.
The later console ports of Dandy, now renamed to Dark Chambers, DID use sprites for enemies and could have given them health points and different behaviors, but they didn't do this for some reason. Maybe they didn't want to get sued for making an unauthorized Gauntlet knockoff, or maybe they wanted to limit the gameplay to what an Atari 2600 could handle so all three versions would play the same.
I owned one of these as my very first home console, before the NES. I own one today.
8:41 great but excellent?
Definitely a great improvement over the original video. Even as a big fan of the 7800, I would agree that it was too little, too late. The graphics chip was really good, but the sound was definitely lacking. I know that the TIA handled both the 2600's graphics and sound, which was why the 7800 was able to play 2600 games. But they're definitely could have been room for a POKEY as well. The system was supposed to come out in 1984, but was delayed due to the crash. And I believe both that and the NES came out nationwide in 1986. So, it couldn't stand a chance. I think that if the 5200 was never released and the 7800 came out in 1984 like intented, then it could have been a different story. The 7800 definitely had potential when it came to graphics, with the big selling point being that it had practically no sprite flicker. It also had more exclusives when compared to the 5200, which had almost none aside from Countermeasure. At the very least, homebrew devs have been doing a great job of breathing new life into the system. I own a physical copy of Rikki & Vikki and it is a fantastic puzzle game. Pac-Man Collection, Super Pac-Man, Froggie, and Beef Drop are also quite good, with promising ports of Arkanoid and Popeye on the horizon.
Also, one final note. Atari missed a big opportunity to make the 7800 controller both a joystick and a paddle.
It'd be fun to have videos like this but specifically for homebrew games
Karateka is one of those games that you need to learn the wonky controls, when you do it's rather good.
You have 2 stances you can alternate, running and fighting. Running equals a one hit death if you take a hit while in it, fighting does not.
I still give it a “Bad” grade (1). I begged my mom to get this for my birthday back in 1989. She was like “wouldn’t you rather have Joust?” And I was like, “No, mom, that game is too old”. Always listen to your mom.....
It is so satisfying killing that dang bird in the game. I had it on apple IIe and I loved that game.
On the C64 version at least, you had to learn how to factor in the lag between joystick input and screen action.
Had it for the Apple IIe, never played it on the 7800 but I was absolutely addicted to it on my computer. I love this game.
Ah, a re-do. This should be neat!
Interesting take but being a fan of early 80s arcade games, I love a lot of the ports on this system and the new homebrew games that have been coming out in the last few years really make this console worth owning
So I watched AVGN talk about the cover to scrapyard dog and the guy's nose, so seeing that his nose is so prominent in the actual game is hilarious to me.
A girl I lived with in the early 90s had an old 7800. I grew to love it on some level, and realized it was a better system than it was credited for. I definitely played the crap out of it over several months, at the expense of my "better" systems. The 7800 wasn't bad, it was just two years too late (It sat in a warehouse after the 1984 crash for years before being released, allowing the NES time to take the market with a newer system.) and had the Atari problem of just releasing the same games over and over. I mean, I don't care how good of a copy of Pac-Man it was, it was still the same game I owned copies of for multiple other systems already. When it came down to "Metroid" or "Yet another Pac-Man", the choice wasn't difficult. And it showed with the games, imo. The BEST Atari 7800 games were on the same level as a DECENT NES game in terms of graphics and playability. The best NES games were leaps ahead of the best Atari 7800 games.
Again, I had a lot of fun playing the 7800, but I also understand why it lost in against Nintendo and Sega at the time as well.
The Sega Master System port of Choplifter is the best, containing ALL levels. The 7800 port only has the first level. It was also ported to the Famicom, but that version is so bad it didn't get released for the NES.
Every time I think of this channel name and hear the intro, I just think of the game over from Daytona USA. Or Li'l Jon going "YAYUH"
30:58 the game is designed to be played with composite video which cause artifact colors (I have no idea why they used 320 pixel mode with artifact colors over the standard 160 pixel mode used by most 7800 games)
Atari 7800 doesn’t have composite video.
@@Tom-jw7ii I used the term composite video to distinguish it from RGB and S-video signals. the RF output of the Atari 7800 would have the same artifacts
@@Phredreeke Not quite the same. Aside from just working differently, RF has significantly more artifacting than composite.
@@Tom-jw7ii the artifacts that are of interest here are present in both composite and RF video (assuming you have a NTSC system)
You say you fixed the video but All the game footage is stretched beyond the intended 4:3 aspect ratio.
Still your dedication to revisiting your old videos and fixing things you were unhappy with is commendable.
Keep up the good work.
None of the footage is stretched actually. A lot of games have big black bars above and below the image, I just removed those and zoomed in the picture. Admittedly I don't do this anymore to preserve technical authenticity, but the image of the games should be accurate to their intended presentation.
Sorry dude.
I don't know why I was being so negative.
There really is no need for it.
I and many others totally appreciate what you do.
I have all but 4 commercial releases. AtariAge sells an adapter called the Seagull 78 Controller Adapter. It allows you to use a Genesis controller, mapping the 2 7800 controller buttons to two buttons on the Genesis controller. It works great!
Great vids, just wondering why no in-game sound though? 7800 was odd, especially the sound issue. Such potential. And I'm not sure if it were solely due to licencing, but why so few popular arcade ports? There were so many in the classic era of 1979 into the early 80s? You'd think a strong line-up of those would have helped sales?