baul104 luigi yeah hi revving engine sound's Too bad you won't find any vehicle made after the mid 80s that has it's engines revving up fast Except maybe a fire truck Now they all rev pretty low but I'm guessing it's for fuel mileage and the regulated emissions forced on deisels And now that I think about it I never seen any bus nowadays that uses stick shift
@@fargeeks They weren't really high revving, they just sounded like it because they were two-stroke. max RPM was _maybe_ 2300, at least for the 6-71, which was an inline six.
Listening to the sound of this bus brings back so many memories from when I was in elementary school. I was always attracted to the loud sound of the engine. I guess that's why I always install an aftermarket muffler in every car I've owned.
Nostalgia of all the field trips when I was younger and smelling the good ol Detroit diesel clattering and smoking! When they were starting to get phased out I would always try to ride in the crown hot dog “ what I called them “ vs the box buses. They were loud stinky and everything you would want to ride in as a young gear head.
I had a job where I drove a Crown tandem axle with a Detroit and Fuller road ranger 10-speed back in the mid-70's. I was 20 years old. It was the most fun driving I ever had...
..and the Crown had aluminum wheels which I polished and they shone like mirrors :) A lot of work but worth it. The company also had another tandem but with a Cummins - completely different sound. I believe there was a some type of turbo on the Detroit that gave the motor sound a great pitch.
As a product of the Los Angeles Unified School District back in the mid '70s to early '80s, that exhaust sound drums up so many memories for me. Because of the city's zoning project at the time, I was bused to an elementary school outside of my zone for the 4th grade. We always had the same bus with the same driver who would play "Celebrate" by Kool and the Gang over the bus's comm system during the trip, not that you could hear it that well over the engine's barking mad exhaust. I think this is where I first fell in love with the internal combustion engine.
I drove these Crowns at LAUSD: 2298, 3177, 3111. Miss them all. Last bus at LAUSD 6006 a Gillig Phantom with a Silver-92. Left LAUSD in 1989 miss that job a lot.
6-71 and 10 speed in a Crown bus...bulletproof combo. One of these used to rip past my house daily and the sound was exotic. Sounded different than the same engine in my father's 1959 GMC.
This bus has a straight (no muffler) exhaust and is LOUD. Sounds best if you turn up your volume! Just been driving the 10 speed Road Ranger a few months, so I've got a lot to learn, but it's FUN!! Note at 4:35, the stop light goes Green, Yellow, Red and then right back to Green again...Got a little radical downshifting practice! Also at 5:00, pulling into the back of the house, note the eve of the roof passing at window level. Haven't hit it yet, but it's really close! Have some fun with me on this 10 minute ride, an adventure in the joys of antique diesel engines when noise and smoke were mandatory! Enjoy! Al
+Al Jennings Nothin' better than a 6-71N and an RTO....go anywhere, lickety split! I had an Embree Crown in front of me after a Dodger game, getting onto the Hollywood Fwy at Beaudry (a popular shortcut), and that onramp was STEEP. I was in a 4107, and that 10-speed ten-wheeler turned the corner, and left me in the DUST, and I had two more cylinders than he did! By the time I hit the freeway, I FINALLY got out of second, and all I could tell of that Crown was the scent of #1 diesel in the air....he was GONE.
Al Jennings my dad drove tractor trailer with 6-71 and 10 spped so like he said you get used to it but his favorite was his 400 cummins with a 10 speed in a 1980 Freightliner .
Al Jennings : nice Crown you have. I am curious if those Detroit Diesel engines are reliable for cross country travel?, around town or short stints I am sure the Detroit's are ideal for getting heavy vehicle up and moving in a hurry but, traveling the country I don't know much about their ability to cruise at freeway speeds for hours on end. Kind regards, Eric Dee
I’m looking to buy one of these buses I’ve always loved these old Gillig and crown coach busses this is actually a bus I used to ride as a kid brings back so many memories
Awesome! Brought memories! I had a hell of a good school bus driver! She was a double clutching pro on these things! And i love the sounds of these buses! Watxhing her drive is what started my career in transportation....motorcoach and planes 😁😁😁
Your bus sounds beautiful. It reminds me of the Seagrave fire trucks that used to roam the streets of Baltimore when I was a kid. Thanks for posting the video.
I love the sound of old 2 cycle Detroit diesels. Most old time fire engines had straight (unmuffled) exhaust to make them more audible. I removed the muffler on this bus (for my personal listening pleasure LOL!!) which makes it sound very much the same as a Detroit Diesel powered Seagrave. Thanks for watching!!
Al Jennings: Great video! I enjoyed it! Iam in high school and i really love these old crown school buses. I rode them when i was a kid. All subscribe for great content like this.
Love the sound of a Detroit 6-71 bus going through the ten gears. It sounded like a gillig bus I rode on in summer school. Sonoma valley unified school district bus one it was a gillig with the same engine and manual ten speed tansmission
I love the driver's combination double-clutching and gear shifting action! Not a sound!! It makes me yearn for the opportunity to drive a non-sycronized transmission again.
issac matthews the engine is installed in the center of the bus with the blower on top, so you really hear the blower whine inside the bus. the floor is just plywood with a thin layer of rubber so the sound insulation is not that great..
The MarcoPolo/Mercedez-Benz bus my mother and I rode on 5/5/10 in Mazatlan Mexico had a shift pattern-less manual with several switches, so it may have been a thirteen speed Roadranger or Spicer..of course the GMC charter/travel ones had just 4-speeds.:)
Sound like it was a fuller or a road ranger gearbox it could have been a range change gearbox’s with high/low low low super reduction they call it. With the road ranger it’s 1 gar split into two 1/ 1+2/ 2/ 3+4/3 5+6 etc with the range change you would go through gears 1-7 change the range to high then go back through 7-13. Unless it was slushmatic. Or a semi auto - which was sometimes fitted to European mercs it was called the eps ( electronic power shift) and didn’t catch on very well as it kept braking as it wasn’t that great.
I remember when I was in Jr. Hi school, I use to get buses from south central LA. to Granada Hills in the Same Fernando valley. Portor jr. high school, but who could guest that I would be driving buses for several different school boards.
I drove them for Durham Trans in 88-89. Crowns were the Cadillac of buses at the time. I preferred them over the Thomases and other transit types. I left buses to get my class A to drive semi's instead.
Great Video !... Thanks for sharing the ride. One Thing... IF, it were mine, I would get rid of that silly sounding "center outlet" exhaust manifold and replace it with a "rear outlet" manifold.... either facing straight rearward, or "upwards" or straight "out" from the rear..... whichever works best for your application and engine position. That would give it a LOT "Deeper" and "Throatier" sound. The Cabover IH Transtar 4070 series trucks were "saddled" with the same "tinny" sounding exhaust on the 8V71's for the same reason.... they sound SO Much nicer with the "rear" exhaust outlets. Cheers ! Thanks again.
Road those in middle school. They were about 20 years old at the time (built in the 1970s according to my bus drivers). The stick shift levers I saw had a glitter ball rather than a black ball.
This bus appears to have the old Speedo-Graph speedometer on it. It's how the school monitored the speed of their drivers. You had to put a glossy, circular graph in it, then a metal stylus would etch it. Does this one still work?
I was thinking the same thing, I believe those were called "Tach-O-graphs" which were dead on more reliable in recording speed (providing there was ink in it) than the speedometer.
Hey AL, what do these kids know about; Double clutching, down-shifting, and mid-range shifting..!! And than, do it all over again without clutching..!! Down hill..!!! We we're "fast and furious" in our Crowns..!!
Detroit 2 strokes sound twice the rpm of what speed they are running. Firing and exhaust note for every cylinder every revolution instead d of every other like the usual 4 stroke engines
Nice! I looked this bus up only because I met a person that bought one to convert into a motor home.. His plans are to take his family on an extended vacation to Alaska. PS, did this bus also come with a Cummins Diesel? I may be wrong, but I thought that was what he said his has.
Looks fun! One question: why is he skipping gears? It seems like it would be easier to skip gears, but doesn't that put excessive wear and tear on the engine with such high rpms that are required in order to skip gears?
cumulo25 I watched him skip gears and it made me cringe. This bad practice always drives me crazy. I drove these for 43 years and always hated it when guys over revved and then lugged it into the next gear. Those gears are there for a reason, and skipping gears is just dumb. Those old Detroits had a very narrow power band, so the 10 speed was great to keep it right in the sweet spot....unless you skip gears. Too bad. #1 You over rev the engine to do it. Why shorten the life of a good engine? You do not need high RPM in lower gears at lower speed. #2 You waste fuel when you over rev it, and then in the next gear lug it. Cringe.
@@TheMetalButcher The Crowns were NOT unique to skip gears in straight stretches, even for school buses. At my old middle school (Matthew Henson - Charles County, MD) on the open stretch on MD 210, the five speeds (Ward/Ford and Thomas/International - both with five-speed manual transmissions), they would launch in second - not first (flat road left turn), but then skip fourth coming onto MD 210 post-turn (second-third-fifth) due to the stretch of 210 being downhill. (Basically, five-speeds driven like threes (first and fourth got skipped); if you actually failed to skip fourth gear, you would get faster - and risk going too fast past the parochial school and it's "no speeding" zone - and yes - school buses DID get ticketed for this particular no-no.)
Hey Al, I love the Crown and Gillig videos. I drove Crowns and Gilligs for 10.5 years. I've now been with the Post Office for 16. School bus driving was by far my favorite job, and I hope to return after retiring from the PO. What's your background? I assume you are or were in school transportation. Thanks again, Kevin in Sacramento
I've loved them since my first ride on a tiny early 50's short bus. My first Crown ride was to Mission San Juan Capistrano in 1954 from Fullerton. It was love at first sight. But I never drove one till about 5 years ago when I bought my first bus, a 74 Gillig about 5 years ago.. I drove it 300++ miles home with no Class B license and absolutely no experience driving a bus. It was scary but so much fun! And I was hooked. There's nothing like it. I use the bus for transporting disadvantaged kids to special activities including large loads of kids to summer mountain camps. The kids love riding in the noisy old bus. But, I'm just as likely to drive it to the market or to Home Depot. It gets the same fuel mileage as my Chevy pickup, but takes a little more parking expertise LOL!!
Al.... Please, disregard my first comment to you, below... regarding "exhaust manifolds" -vs- sound.... and please forgive me for Not reading many of your preceeding commentaries, First. I was just reading one of your replies from 7 months ago.... which you stated that your Crown is turbo'd..... which, in your application would pretty well negate any ability to utilize a rear outlet manifold of any kind, due to space considerations. Sorry about that. My apology.
Marcus Garcia Hi, Marcus. There's one of the nicest later model Crown Coaches around that's on Ebay right now. It's from Washington State and I know the owner. This bus is as close to "new" as a30 year old unrestored vehicle could ever be. Has the 6-71 diesel like mine, but with an Allison transmission...much less work to drive and much rarer. Check it out..
Any ideas on whether or not any examples of buses like this still exist, with automatic transmissions? I'm talking about those Crown Supercoaches equipped with the following powertrains: Cummins NHHTC 290 with Allison HT740 Cummins NHHTC 300 with Allison HT747 Detroit Diesel 6L71T with Allison MT644 Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with Allison MT647 Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with Allison HT747 Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with ZF ECOMAT 4HP590
There are a larger than normal number of Crown Coaches coming into the market as the California Air Resources Board "sunset clause" is forcing more and more districts to either crush (too many) or sell off (not enough of them) their old diesel rigs, in order to get huge grants to pay for new clean burning coaches. Many of the later units are Allison MT Series automatics. Public Surplus Auctions just sold a couple of them for Modesto Unified for around $10,000 apiece. Then, they sold a couple of DD powered Allisons with engine problems in the mid $3,000's. You will see some on ebay, if you watch, and units pop up on Craigslist frequently, although you have to check diffferent city pages to find them. Most of the remaining unitw in service are DD 6-71's but you will occasionally find a Cummins. I'd suggest you join a Yahoo group called Crown Coach Junkies, which will hook you up with amazingly wise and experienced Crown collectors. Best of luck!!
Same hosts, I believe, but the action is on the Yahoo site. You'll meet people who worked for Crown, Embree Charter, and many districts in transportation management, plus ordinary Crown owners like myself. You'll also get in touch with Pacific Bus Museum, which holds all the original build documents on most Crowns.
AWESOME video...thank you!! Just curious, where are you out of? I know it's a long shot, but if you're in California, I'd love to check out this rig... *drooling*
warden145 I'm actually in California... right in the center of the state in Fresno. This bus seems to be a real crowd pleaser, even with its "old school" racket and sweet smelling diesel fumes and smoke! I'll go out of my way to give a ride to anybody who has interest in it! Email WSTRNFLT@aol.com any time! Thanks! Al
Hey I just noticed that you mentioned you're in Fresno. I started paying attention to surroundings at that point. The 4-way stop just after a minute into the video, where you turned right, was that Sierra and Marks? Later on, I could swear thats Herndon Ave. I'm from Madera. I'd be cool to see this running down the road. These days, its always a sight to see a Jimmy screaming down the road.
All Detroit Diesel 2 cycle engines have blowers (superchargers) to pressurize the incoming air and to force it into the cylinder, since there's no intake stroke. This bus also has a turbocharger for extra power. The exhaust system on my bus is a "straight" exhaust, which means there's no muffler (= lounder!! ) If you listen to the video, you'll hear a whistling sound which rises and drops in pitch as the engine RPM's go up or down. That's the blower, doing its job. The loud exhaust note is the muffler (lack of!!). Thanks! Al
Al Jennings Just a note of "info".... that I think MANY seem confused about, after reading "Comments & replies" on YT here, in regards to "Blowers" -vs- "Superchargers"....especially in regards to GMD/DD's. The Roots Type Blowers that are employed for use on 2 cycle GMD/DD's... are just That... "Blowers".... they MOVE air.... They do NOT draw air in and "Compress it" before the point of discharge, thereby building "boost".... as would, ie: a "Lysham Screw" Blower (under various brand names), or any of the mechanical centrifugal type "blowers" like ie: Magnachargers, or "Procharger" etc, etc... and of course the well familiar, exhaust driven "Turbocharger"and all it's variations, thereof. Having said that, "IF" you have a "boost" guage that is tapped into the airbox on Any 2 cycle GMD/DD N/A (Naturally Aspirated) engine, and everything is "tight" and in good shape... you should get a reading of 4 - 6 lbs above atmospheric... but, this is NOT as a result of actual "boosting" of air pressurization (as with a turbo)..... but as a result of "Back Pressure". because the air flow capacity of the blower is designed to be slightly more, than the actual flow rate into the cylinders, especially from about 1,200 rpms and Up. You said above in your "reply" to ClassicTVMan.... that your engine is turbo'd.... was it "self installed"? ..... "IF" so, did you upgrade to a "High-bypass" blower to take advantage of the the boost from the turbo??.... "IF" Not.... it "could" result in the turbo "cavitating" under high exhaust flow & heat when the engine is "working", if not matched correctly with the flow characteristics of both the Roots blower & the engine demands, especially in terms of exhaust flow volume and exhaust temp. Also, the compression ratio of the N/A engines (71 series) is 18.7 to 1..... Factory Turbo'd engines are 17 to 1..... and I have used N/A pistons with turbos and overdriven blowers on high performance setups... but also, lots of fuel ("BIG" injectors and a "secondary" high flow fuel supply) to stay out of detonation. Anyway...... Detroits are "tons of fun" .... aren't they !!??! Just like "building" small block Chevy's.... can open them up (rpms) to levels that other diesels would totally self destruct at. Love em !! Hope you get to enjoy your bus for years to come ! : )
There were a lot of 6V92's put in the very late Super II Crown buses. Several of them pass by the back of my house, every school day, and I love to hear them!! I agree they make SWEET music! The note is exactly an octave lower and has a softer edge than my inline 6-71. I love 'em both! Each Detroit 2 cycle version makes its own special "music"!!
It was difficult for me, even though I have a lifetime of experience in gear shifting, and quite a bit of experience double clutching. Other people do it better. I just love practicing though, since I love to drive the bus so much!!
All 10 gears would only be necessary to haul 72 passengers up a wall LOL! I normally go 2-4-6-8-9-10. With no load, 3-5-7-8-9-10 works well. The video used that pattern. Still, the old diesels didn't have anywhere the tourque we have today. When you start hill climbing and the bus starts to lug down, you downshift one gear at a time to stay on the torque curve.
this is probably a dumb question but does the knob on the shifter change it from gears 1-5 to 6-10? And do you have to have to be pushing the clutch before you activate that knob? Are 1 and 6 are the same position and so on to 5 and 10?
Great question! You guessed correctly it's a 5 speed with a high-low air controlled gearbox behind. So 1 is also 6 and so on till 5 is also 10. The hi-low gearbox pre-selects the command you give it with the knob, however, the shift doesn't occur till you pass thru neutral. Don't need to clutch to shift this tranny but hi-low only shifts when pre-selected and then the shift occurs as you pass thru neutral.
It has 4:11 gears. It has 11R24.5 tires which are just slightly taller than the original 11:00x20's it started life with. I'm right at 60 at 2,000 RPM's. You might want to contact Tom Shafer at the Pacific Bus Museum in The San Francisco ares (twshafer@aol.com). He has the original build records on most Crowns, and can probably tell you all you need to know about your bus's configuration. Sounds super low to me. Also you might want to check out "Crown Coach Junkies" on Yahoo Groups. Lotsa chat there every day, and a lot of guys who know a whole lot more than I do. Got a pic or 2 of yours? WSTRNFLT@aol.com. Thanks!! Al
Now THIS is how a REAL bus should sound like...
baul104 luigi yeah hi revving engine sound's
Too bad you won't find any vehicle made after the mid 80s that has it's engines revving up fast
Except maybe a fire truck
Now they all rev pretty low but I'm guessing it's for fuel mileage and the regulated emissions forced on deisels
And now that I think about it
I never seen any bus nowadays that uses stick shift
@@fargeeks They weren't really high revving, they just sounded like it because they were two-stroke. max RPM was _maybe_ 2300, at least for the 6-71, which was an inline six.
@@fargeeks Now only the Thomas C2 has a manual transmission
@@ag6371 never ever seen one unless youre referring to the truck that the schoolbus is based on
Listening to the sound of this bus brings back so many memories from when I was in elementary school. I was always attracted to the loud sound of the engine. I guess that's why I always install an aftermarket muffler in every car I've owned.
Every diesel ive ever owned since is strait piped because of sitting in the back of these. Miss hearin driver's....drive these things
Samec it’s me!
Nostalgia of all the field trips when I was younger and smelling the good ol Detroit diesel clattering and smoking! When they were starting to get phased out I would always try to ride in the crown hot dog “ what I called them “ vs the box buses. They were loud stinky and everything you would want to ride in as a young gear head.
I had a job where I drove a Crown tandem axle with a Detroit and Fuller road ranger 10-speed back in the mid-70's. I was 20 years old. It was the most fun driving I ever had...
..and the Crown had aluminum wheels which I polished and they shone like mirrors :) A lot of work but worth it. The company also had another tandem but with a Cummins - completely different sound. I believe there was a some type of turbo on the Detroit that gave the motor sound a great pitch.
As a product of the Los Angeles Unified School District back in the mid '70s to early '80s, that exhaust sound drums up so many memories for me. Because of the city's zoning project at the time, I was bused to an elementary school outside of my zone for the 4th grade. We always had the same bus with the same driver who would play "Celebrate" by Kool and the Gang over the bus's comm system during the trip, not that you could hear it that well over the engine's barking mad exhaust. I think this is where I first fell in love with the internal combustion engine.
Same here! I was in Moreno Valley. Rode these in the 90s. Freaking awesome! The iconic sound! This brought me back!
This is a sound that if u rode these in your school days, you will never forget
I drove these Crowns at LAUSD: 2298, 3177, 3111. Miss them all. Last bus at LAUSD 6006 a Gillig Phantom with a Silver-92. Left LAUSD in 1989 miss that job a lot.
As a former LAUSD student. Thank you for getting us to school safely.
Beautiful. I like how the exhaust itself is a high pitch screaming version of the already screaming 6-71.
6-71 and 10 speed in a Crown bus...bulletproof combo. One of these used to rip past my house daily and the sound was exotic. Sounded different than the same engine in my father's 1959 GMC.
This bus has a straight (no muffler) exhaust and is LOUD. Sounds best if you turn up your volume! Just been driving the 10 speed Road Ranger a few months, so I've got a lot to learn, but it's FUN!! Note at 4:35, the stop light goes Green, Yellow, Red and then right back to Green again...Got a little radical downshifting practice! Also at 5:00, pulling into the back of the house, note the eve of the roof passing at window level. Haven't hit it yet, but it's really close! Have some fun with me on this 10 minute ride, an adventure in the joys of antique diesel engines when noise and smoke were mandatory! Enjoy! Al
i knew there had to be something up with the exhaust...sounds damn loud
pretty cool
+Al Jennings Nothin' better than a 6-71N and an RTO....go anywhere, lickety split! I had an Embree Crown in front of me after a Dodger game, getting onto the Hollywood Fwy at Beaudry (a popular shortcut), and that onramp was STEEP. I was in a 4107, and that 10-speed ten-wheeler turned the corner, and left me in the DUST, and I had two more cylinders than he did! By the time I hit the freeway, I FINALLY got out of second, and all I could tell of that Crown was the scent of #1 diesel in the air....he was GONE.
Al Jennings my dad drove a International Trans tar with a 6-71 and 10 speed Road Ranger
Al Jennings my dad drove tractor trailer with 6-71 and 10 spped so like he said you get used to it but his favorite was his 400 cummins with a 10 speed in a 1980 Freightliner .
Al Jennings : nice Crown you have. I am curious if those Detroit Diesel engines are reliable for cross country travel?, around town or short stints I am sure the Detroit's are ideal for getting heavy vehicle up and moving in a hurry but, traveling the country I don't know much about their ability to cruise at freeway speeds for hours on end.
Kind regards, Eric Dee
I’m looking to buy one of these buses I’ve always loved these old Gillig and crown coach busses this is actually a bus I used to ride as a kid brings back so many memories
I don’t know why but there’s something relaxing in the way he’s driving that bus :)
Sounds AMAZING! You drive really good too! Thanks for sharing!
I miss those busses I used to ride the bus to school on one. But now I'm drawing one. Back in the 1970 😢😂😂❤
Awesome! Brought memories! I had a hell of a good school bus driver! She was a double clutching pro on these things! And i love the sounds of these buses! Watxhing her drive is what started my career in transportation....motorcoach and planes 😁😁😁
I always loved the sound of the engine
Detroit Diesel 2 Stroke motor is music to my ears.
Even older GM buses have the same engine.
Thanks, Wolfy! I had a pretty good time making it! I never get tired of driving this bus!!
Al Jennings - Still like watching this video, Al! =)
Your bus sounds beautiful. It reminds me of the Seagrave fire trucks that used to roam the streets of Baltimore when I was a kid. Thanks for posting the video.
I love the sound of old 2 cycle Detroit diesels. Most old time fire engines had straight (unmuffled) exhaust to make them more audible. I removed the muffler on this bus (for my personal listening pleasure LOL!!) which makes it sound very much the same as a Detroit Diesel powered Seagrave. Thanks for watching!!
1974 to be exact. One used to be at the fire station near my house. Would run into my grandmother's room to hear it roar past my house.
Al Jennings: Great video! I enjoyed it! Iam in high school and i really love these old crown school buses. I rode them when i was a kid. All subscribe for great content like this.
I Just Love The Roar Of This Bus
awesome bus...love the motor sound...
Good Job shifting and driving Al Jennings! This bus sounds amazing!
Shifts like a boss...got his technique down and everything...don't be ticklin' or nothin'
I always enjoyed riding on Crown school buses throughout school.
My favorite bus...I used to drive crowns for L.A.U.S.D.. Fun to drive!!
Love the sound of a Detroit 6-71 bus going through the ten gears. It sounded like a gillig bus I rode on in summer school. Sonoma valley unified school district bus one it was a gillig with the same engine and manual ten speed tansmission
I love the driver's combination double-clutching and gear shifting action! Not a sound!! It makes me yearn for the opportunity to drive a non-sycronized transmission again.
I Love How The Engine Would Roar Really Loud I Loved That Sound!
issac matthews the engine is installed in the center of the bus with the blower on top, so you really hear the blower whine inside the bus. the floor is just plywood with a thin layer of rubber so the sound insulation is not that great..
Sound insane!!! 2 stroke scream!!!
Man, I love it. And with the ole school Tach!
THIS guy's been driving a Crown for a WHILE! (So did I...2A-743 recliners, 12 sp Spicer SynchroMaster 8125, Roesch, San Berdoo, CA)
I like your videos of school buses🚌
Thanks! Just been driving the ten speed for a few months. Love the 6-71 Diesel wail with the tight ratio shifts!
The MarcoPolo/Mercedez-Benz bus my mother and I rode on 5/5/10 in Mazatlan Mexico had a shift pattern-less manual with several switches, so it may have been a thirteen speed Roadranger or Spicer..of course the GMC charter/travel ones had just 4-speeds.:)
Sound like it was a fuller or a road ranger gearbox it could have been a range change gearbox’s with high/low low low super reduction they call it. With the road ranger it’s 1 gar split into two 1/ 1+2/ 2/ 3+4/3 5+6 etc with the range change you would go through gears 1-7 change the range to high then go back through 7-13. Unless it was slushmatic. Or a semi auto - which was sometimes fitted to European mercs it was called the eps ( electronic power shift) and didn’t catch on very well as it kept braking as it wasn’t that great.
I would love to buy an 1985 old crown bus one of these days
That's right I almost forgot that Gillig had a standard bus as well. Nice to see that old dinasar.
These Detroit sound like a sport car
2 stroke diesels have a nice growl to them
Bryan D LoL i want to see the reaction from young passenger who have never heard a Detroit Diesel before.
The Engine Sound Is The Best!
I remember when I was in Jr. Hi school, I use to get buses from south central LA. to Granada Hills in the Same Fernando valley. Portor jr. high school, but who could guest that I would be driving buses for several different school boards.
I drove them for Durham Trans in 88-89. Crowns were the Cadillac of buses at the time. I preferred them over the Thomases and other transit types. I left buses to get my class A to drive semi's instead.
That's it, I want my own Crown..!!
I'm in the market for one..
Sounds great about 5 of our Crowns in HS sounded just like this. Sadly, over time, they were all sold and those big huge square jobs took over.
Thank you for sharing.
Great Video !... Thanks for sharing the ride. One Thing... IF, it were mine, I would get rid of that silly sounding "center outlet" exhaust manifold and replace it with a "rear outlet" manifold.... either facing straight rearward, or "upwards" or straight "out" from the rear..... whichever works best for your application and engine position. That would give it a LOT "Deeper" and "Throatier" sound.
The Cabover IH Transtar 4070 series trucks were "saddled" with the same "tinny" sounding exhaust on the 8V71's for the same reason.... they sound SO Much nicer with the "rear" exhaust outlets. Cheers ! Thanks again.
Road those in middle school. They were about 20 years old at the time (built in the 1970s according to my bus drivers). The stick shift levers I saw had a glitter ball rather than a black ball.
Love your buses
Love this video!
This bus appears to have the old Speedo-Graph speedometer on it. It's how the school monitored the speed of their drivers. You had to put a glossy, circular graph in it, then a metal stylus would etch it. Does this one still work?
I was thinking the same thing, I believe those were called "Tach-O-graphs" which were dead on more reliable in recording speed (providing there was ink in it) than the speedometer.
Detroit Thunder!
Hey AL, what do these kids know about; Double clutching, down-shifting, and mid-range shifting..!!
And than, do it all over again without clutching..!! Down hill..!!!
We we're "fast and furious" in our Crowns..!!
Damn! I didn't know they had school buses with 10 speeds! They must have had some real drivers back then.
The Metal Butcher Probably semi truck drivers would have been on these buses
Great shifting Al!
these things were geared so high they sounded like they were going to blow up in between the shifts.
Detroit 2 strokes sound twice the rpm of what speed they are running. Firing and exhaust note for every cylinder every revolution instead d of every other like the usual 4 stroke engines
Finally ... someone that knows how to shift a non-synchronized transmission.
Most vids on youtube elicit the painful image of a trail of shrapnel.
Driving a 10-speed Roadranger was so much fun. Everything I drove was Cummins, so not as pretty sounding.
The Crowns I went on only had five..:)
Cruising around sunny Fresno, CA!
This engine reminds me of maximum overdrive
I'm considering buying a crown myself, how maintenance intensive are they?
Nice! I looked this bus up only because I met a person that bought one to convert into a motor home.. His plans are to take his family on an extended vacation to Alaska.
PS, did this bus also come with a Cummins Diesel? I may be wrong, but I thought that was what he said his has.
Yes there was an option of them
Even older Bluebird All Americans had the same engine as this
Looks fun! One question: why is he skipping gears? It seems like it would be easier to skip gears, but doesn't that put excessive wear and tear on the engine with such high rpms that are required in order to skip gears?
Detroits live for high RPMs. The only danger in skipping is running them too low in the next.
The Metal Butcher is that a 2-speed rear?
cumulo25 I watched him skip gears and it made me cringe. This bad practice always drives me crazy. I drove these for 43 years and always hated it when guys over revved and then lugged it into the next gear. Those gears are there for a reason, and skipping gears is just dumb. Those old Detroits had a very narrow power band, so the 10 speed was great to keep it right in the sweet spot....unless you skip gears. Too bad. #1 You over rev the engine to do it. Why shorten the life of a good engine? You do not need high RPM in lower gears at lower speed. #2 You waste fuel when you over rev it, and then in the next gear lug it. Cringe.
@@TheMetalButcher The Crowns were NOT unique to skip gears in straight stretches, even for school buses. At my old middle school (Matthew Henson - Charles County, MD) on the open stretch on MD 210, the five speeds (Ward/Ford and Thomas/International - both with five-speed manual transmissions), they would launch in second - not first (flat road left turn), but then skip fourth coming onto MD 210 post-turn (second-third-fifth) due to the stretch of 210 being downhill. (Basically, five-speeds driven like threes (first and fourth got skipped); if you actually failed to skip fourth gear, you would get faster - and risk going too fast past the parochial school and it's "no speeding" zone - and yes - school buses DID get ticketed for this particular no-no.)
Hey Al,
I love the Crown and Gillig videos. I drove Crowns and Gilligs for 10.5 years. I've now been with the Post Office for 16. School bus driving was by far my favorite job, and I hope to return after retiring from the PO. What's your background? I assume you are or were in school transportation.
Thanks again,
Kevin in Sacramento
I've loved them since my first ride on a tiny early 50's short bus. My first Crown ride was to Mission San Juan Capistrano in 1954 from Fullerton. It was love at first sight. But I never drove one till about 5 years ago when I bought my first bus, a 74 Gillig about 5 years ago.. I drove it 300++ miles home with no Class B license and absolutely no experience driving a bus. It was scary but so much fun! And I was hooked. There's nothing like it. I use the bus for transporting disadvantaged kids to special activities including large loads of kids to summer mountain camps. The kids love riding in the noisy old bus. But, I'm just as likely to drive it to the market or to Home Depot. It gets the same fuel mileage as my Chevy pickup, but takes a little more parking expertise LOL!!
your bus has the wrap around windshield. how rare is that?
Al.... Please, disregard my first comment to you, below... regarding "exhaust manifolds" -vs- sound.... and please forgive me for Not reading many of your preceeding commentaries, First.
I was just reading one of your replies from 7 months ago.... which you stated that your Crown is turbo'd..... which, in your application would pretty well negate any ability to utilize a rear outlet manifold of any kind, due to space considerations. Sorry about that. My apology.
Skip shifting a 10spd like an experienced driver should!
Are These Buses Still Around?
Were is the best place to find a nice crown or mid 80s bluebird all american? Those are some of my fav buses
Marcus Garcia Hi, Marcus. There's one of the nicest later model Crown Coaches around that's on Ebay right now. It's from Washington State and I know the owner. This bus is as close to "new" as a30 year old unrestored vehicle could ever be. Has the 6-71 diesel like mine, but with an Allison transmission...much less work to drive and much rarer. Check it out..
Are those 10 speed Crowns 2 or 3 axle, anyone know right off hand???.
Any ideas on whether or not any examples of buses like this still exist, with automatic transmissions?
I'm talking about those Crown Supercoaches equipped with the following powertrains:
Cummins NHHTC 290 with Allison HT740
Cummins NHHTC 300 with Allison HT747
Detroit Diesel 6L71T with Allison MT644
Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with Allison MT647
Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with Allison HT747
Detroit Diesel 6L71TA with ZF ECOMAT 4HP590
There are a larger than normal number of Crown Coaches coming into the market as the California Air Resources Board "sunset clause" is forcing more and more districts to either crush (too many) or sell off (not enough of them) their old diesel rigs, in order to get huge grants to pay for new clean burning coaches. Many of the later units are Allison MT Series automatics. Public Surplus Auctions just sold a couple of them for Modesto Unified for around $10,000 apiece. Then, they sold a couple of DD powered Allisons with engine problems in the mid $3,000's. You will see some on ebay, if you watch, and units pop up on Craigslist frequently, although you have to check diffferent city pages to find them. Most of the remaining unitw in service are DD 6-71's but you will occasionally find a Cummins. I'd suggest you join a Yahoo group called Crown Coach Junkies, which will hook you up with amazingly wise and experienced Crown collectors. Best of luck!!
Al Jennings There is also a Facebook group by that name.
Same hosts, I believe, but the action is on the Yahoo site. You'll meet people who worked for Crown, Embree Charter, and many districts in transportation management, plus ordinary Crown owners like myself. You'll also get in touch with Pacific Bus Museum, which holds all the original build documents on most Crowns.
ClassicTVMan1981X Thanks!
if this is a tandem axle, is it for sale? serious offer: $24,000
Any idea what rear gear it has? My bus is the same - 1990, 6-71 with a 10-speed, but it slooow (54 mph @ 2300 rpm).
It has 4:10's. 2,000 RPM at 60 MPH exactly.
+Falconflyer81
Yours probably has a 5.29:1 rear end, which would be quite unusual for that engine.
+ClassicTVMan1981X
I just discovered today that it indeed has a 4:10 rear gear. Perhaps my speedo or tach are inaccurate.
AWESOME video...thank you!!
Just curious, where are you out of? I know it's a long shot, but if you're in California, I'd love to check out this rig... *drooling*
warden145 I'm actually in California... right in the center of the state in Fresno. This bus seems to be a real crowd pleaser, even with its "old school" racket and sweet smelling diesel fumes and smoke! I'll go out of my way to give a ride to anybody who has interest in it! Email WSTRNFLT@aol.com any time! Thanks! Al
Al Jennings I'm in Calif.,,too..
Hey I just noticed that you mentioned you're in Fresno. I started paying attention to surroundings at that point. The 4-way stop just after a minute into the video, where you turned right, was that Sierra and Marks? Later on, I could swear thats Herndon Ave. I'm from Madera. I'd be cool to see this running down the road. These days, its always a sight to see a Jimmy screaming down the road.
IS this registered as a motor home RV or commercial use ?
Do all pancake DD 6-71s have straight blowers?
All Detroit Diesel 2 cycle engines have blowers (superchargers) to pressurize the incoming air and to force it into the cylinder, since there's no intake stroke. This bus also has a turbocharger for extra power. The exhaust system on my bus is a "straight" exhaust, which means there's no muffler (= lounder!! ) If you listen to the video, you'll hear a whistling sound which rises and drops in pitch as the engine RPM's go up or down. That's the blower, doing its job. The loud exhaust note is the muffler (lack of!!). Thanks! Al
Al Jennings Just a note of "info".... that I think MANY seem confused about, after reading "Comments & replies" on YT here, in regards to "Blowers" -vs- "Superchargers"....especially in regards to GMD/DD's.
The Roots Type Blowers that are employed for use on 2 cycle GMD/DD's... are just That... "Blowers".... they MOVE air.... They do NOT draw air in and "Compress it" before the point of discharge, thereby building "boost".... as would, ie: a "Lysham Screw" Blower (under various brand names), or any of the mechanical centrifugal type "blowers" like ie: Magnachargers, or "Procharger" etc, etc... and of course the well familiar, exhaust driven "Turbocharger"and all it's variations, thereof.
Having said that, "IF" you have a "boost" guage that is tapped into the airbox on Any 2 cycle GMD/DD N/A (Naturally Aspirated) engine, and everything is "tight" and in good shape... you should get a reading of 4 - 6 lbs above atmospheric... but, this is NOT as a result of actual "boosting" of air pressurization (as with a turbo)..... but as a result of "Back Pressure". because the air flow capacity of the blower is designed to be slightly more, than the actual flow rate into the cylinders, especially from about 1,200 rpms and Up.
You said above in your "reply" to ClassicTVMan.... that your engine is turbo'd.... was it "self installed"? ..... "IF" so, did you upgrade to a "High-bypass" blower to take advantage of the the boost from the turbo??.... "IF" Not.... it "could" result in the turbo "cavitating" under high exhaust flow & heat when the engine is "working", if not matched correctly with the flow characteristics of both the Roots blower & the engine demands, especially in terms of exhaust flow volume and exhaust temp. Also, the compression ratio of the N/A engines (71 series) is 18.7 to 1..... Factory Turbo'd engines are 17 to 1..... and I have used N/A pistons with turbos and overdriven blowers on high performance setups... but also, lots of fuel ("BIG" injectors and a "secondary" high flow fuel supply) to stay out of detonation.
Anyway...... Detroits are "tons of fun" .... aren't they !!??! Just like "building" small block Chevy's.... can open them up (rpms) to levels that other diesels would totally self destruct at. Love em !! Hope you get to enjoy your bus for years to come ! : )
Whats the top speed?
How many rpm does she pull at max rpm?
Tom Lowe 2000-2200 but it depends on where the governor is set. 2500 was the max.
An MCI coach with a 6V92TA and 5-speed sounds much smoother than this.
There were a lot of 6V92's put in the very late Super II Crown buses. Several of them pass by the back of my house, every school day, and I love to hear them!! I agree they make SWEET music! The note is exactly an octave lower and has a softer edge than my inline 6-71. I love 'em both! Each Detroit 2 cycle version makes its own special "music"!!
Is it hard to learn how to shift the gears?
It was difficult for me, even though I have a lifetime of experience in gear shifting, and quite a bit of experience double clutching. Other people do it better. I just love practicing though, since I love to drive the bus so much!!
Al Jennings do you use all 10 gears or just like half of them? Does it depend on the load?
All 10 gears would only be necessary to haul 72 passengers up a wall LOL! I normally go 2-4-6-8-9-10. With no load, 3-5-7-8-9-10 works well. The video used that pattern. Still, the old diesels didn't have anywhere the tourque we have today. When you start hill climbing and the bus starts to lug down, you downshift one gear at a time to stay on the torque curve.
this is probably a dumb question but does the knob on the shifter change it from gears 1-5 to 6-10? And do you have to have to be pushing the clutch before you activate that knob? Are 1 and 6 are the same position and so on to 5 and 10?
Great question! You guessed correctly it's a 5 speed with a high-low air controlled gearbox behind. So 1 is also 6 and so on till 5 is also 10. The hi-low gearbox pre-selects the command you give it with the knob, however, the shift doesn't occur till you pass thru neutral. Don't need to clutch to shift this tranny but hi-low only shifts when pre-selected and then the shift occurs as you pass thru neutral.
It has 4:11 gears. It has 11R24.5 tires which are just slightly taller than the original 11:00x20's it started life with. I'm right at 60 at 2,000 RPM's. You might want to contact Tom Shafer at the Pacific Bus Museum in The San Francisco ares (twshafer@aol.com). He has the original build records on most Crowns, and can probably tell you all you need to know about your bus's configuration. Sounds super low to me. Also you might want to check out "Crown Coach Junkies" on Yahoo Groups. Lotsa chat there every day, and a lot of guys who know a whole lot more than I do. Got a pic or 2 of yours? WSTRNFLT@aol.com. Thanks!! Al
My dad drove a Freightliner cab over with a big cam 400 Cummins and a 10 speed Road Ranger what a truck that was a real friggin powerhouse.
I ser