Kang said in Antman after Janet asked who Kang was “ Kang is who I have to be” and the fact he was trying bargain is when I realized we was watching the younger version who hadn’t won the war yet. I like how you put out how he finds alioth
@JBurnz001 no it doesn't. Not every Kang has the exact same goals/focus. We are basically going to see in future films how KTC becomes HWR. But it's not the EXACT same HWR we know. He didn't become reincarnated. KTC is just the variant that had the same drive/goals that HWR did before HWR became HWR (and he was probably also called Kang the Conqueror before he became HWR).
@@JBurnz001 I mean.. did you not watch the entire video? In the video it was logically argued that in fact HWR might have at that time a tech to regenerate him and therefor it did regenerate his scars. He is supposed to be insanely old, why does he look young? Due to his regeneration tech and it would be quite odd to regenerate only his age and not his physical scars. I think it is great that HWR doesn't have scars in Loki, because it would be a dead giveaway.. it's better to surprise the audience that doesn't deep dive into the logic. After all, if you deep dive into everything, you'll get the least surprised and the movies were not done for us deep-divers, it's done for an audience that has patience as well.
When Kang said that he'll burn them out of time? It's exactly what HWR did. He pruned their timelines. Kang escaped by accident when he was sucked into his machine. Only to reappear as Timely. Timely began rebuilding his time machine, hence in the end? Becoming HWR, all over again.
and about he said "not every variant of me have pure heart" most his variant just wanna play with time innocently, except HWR, he just wanna burn them out of time, he want to win so the one who not pure heart actually HWR
MCU usually follows one version of a Super Hero or Villain. Following that idea, I agree that Kang is He Who Remains. We are following this one Kang's journey.
it cant be!!! HWR is portrayed as a "good guy". Why would they follow the good version of him when its the main villain they should be building up?? it doesnt make sense. kang in antman was full of rage and vengeance. he wants all types of violence when HWR wants peace. idk how everybody is missing that part
@@unculturedswine9984kang is alot younger an has been trough way less then he who remains, Also Loki started out with the attributes you used to describe kang but he ended up being a good guy, with kang they do the opposite and Stert with showing the good version and the last movie version of him will be the worst version
@@bakmata6795 tell me u don't know Kang from the comics by not telling me. This is why y'all come up with dumb theories. Whatever. I don't want to take the time to explain.
@@unculturedswine9984 HWR most certainly isn't a good guy. Remember, this man fought in the multiversal war just like his other variants. And he won the war by destroying all other universes that were part of his multiverse back then, except for the one universe which formed his Sacred Timeline. When you destroy an universe, you kill all living beings in that universe, which makes you a mass murderer. And HWR didn't destroy just one universe, he destroyed billions upon billions of them. Then he set up the TVA to continue his work - destroying newly emerging universes (branched timelines) instead if him and feeding them to the Alioth. Mobius and other TVA agents at least have the valid excuse that they were manipulated and brainwashed into doing it. No one forced HWR though, he did it all of his own free will. The fact that he presents it all as a good achievement that was done only with the best of intentions for the good of the universe simply proves that he's a psychopath.
My theory was always that He Who Rains spelled out everything to us, he is a reliable narrator. That he has in fact lived a million lifetimes bc of the endless loop, some of those lifetimes he was Kang & he tried to go abt the multiverse a certain way but he always failed. The only way that was successful was for him to choose a diff path that lead him to become He Who Remains, which would also correlate with Endgame & how there was only 1 possible path out of millions.
I think this theory holds up well, especially considering how it mirrors the updated comic book depictions of Nathaniel Richard's endless cycle of always becoming Kang because no matter what path he chooses, his reality is that he will never have the love he so desires. Even in all the lifetimes where he starts off choosing to do everything he can to prevent himself from becoming Kang, the events that he goes through always ends up pushing him into repeating the cycle of recreating himself as Kang. Marvel could mirror that with just the idea that Nathaniel Richards, the scientist, has himself lived a million lifetimes as all these variants of himself in an attempt to find a way to keep himself from destroying the multiverse. Ultimately seeing that the only way he's found so far in his millions of lifetimes is to conqueror all of himself and create the singular timeline where he can prevent his variants from making other choices. And since there must always be a " he who remains " in order to maintain it, it will ultimately come down to someone else having to take on his mantle in order for Nathaniel Richards to finally be free of his endless loop.
@@brokenSnake Yes they can, you're not understanding what it means for someone in the future to travel through time, based on how they've set it up. You're approaching it as if this is all one event leading into another in order. That would only make sense if we were watching this whole thing JUST from Kang's point of view. Time is not linear, it has already happened in it's entirety from beginning to end. Everything Kang has done, in every variant of his, has already happened. We the viewer are only seeing those events one by one, as they happen for us and the characters.
my thought process is that Kang is in the same probability storm Scott and Hope were in. My theory is he'll accumulate all the knowledge of his potential variants thus making him know literally every outcome of his every move hence he can become He Who Remains
probability storm creates variants of every outcome. so literally he has an equal amount of survival as death. similarly, every variant in the council of kangs holds the potential to create their own sacred timelines within the multiverse. the concept of schroedingers cat applies to both. Loki is the degree of change. in a quantum computer each outcomenis known as a qubit. each qubitnis reliant upon its chronological entangled past. within the mcu future qubits transfer information to older breaking causality and creating different strings of entangled futures. this is the purpose behind the infinity war. the loki series foreshadows that Loki is meant to create change by altering events. he does this by bringing an entangled mind stone from the future to the avengers through the first avengers movie. which is simultaneously taking place before and after the Loki series. Loki both dies and lives in the infinty war opening act. It is insinuated in ragnarock that loki enchanted and swapped identities with valkery. meaning in one of two scenarios valkery died by Thanos snapping her neck. the Russo bros both lied and told the truth in their interview. these writers are on some genius level shite.
@Budgie Cat they explained in Loki that Kang was just a man. They also explained he was teleporting via the temp pad on his hand. He had it preprogrammed to dodge their attacks because he exists outside of time and had seen everything they would do up to a certain point. His variants were not trapped inside him, they didn't exist. At least not any that would discover the multiverse and become a threat. That's the whole point of the tva, clipping any branch timeliness that would lead to another multiversal war. By killing him, they left the "garden" without a "gardener" so to speak. The multiverse was allowed to grow freely and thus "weeds" (in this case, Kang variants) were able to start popping up again.
You guys crushed it again with extremely valid points! If I may add on, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the song used in the teaser trailer for Quantumania is “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.” There’s a line in it that always stuck out to me, and it’s “oh, I’ve finally decided where my future lies, beyond the yellow brick road.” And with the new theory Ryan gave us saying that Kang is destined to make the decisions to become He Who Remains, I think this song is a new clew to indicate that. Before the Loki Finale, We always speculated that the one at the end of time would be a king Loki or a intimidating figure; but then it was revealed to be a bit so scary version of Kang, even HWR said it himself, “not what you were expecting?” Goodbye yellow brick road is the clew that tells us that Kang’s Future lies beyond the Timeline. Loki is a lot Like the wizard of oz too, dorthy and her friends (Loki and Sylvie and Mobius in this case) travel a journey to a castle to eventually meet the one in charge who was a not so intimidating figure in this case, Loki and Sylvie traveling to the end of time to He Who Remain’s Castle to meet him and be underwhelmed. So I think that you guys are spit on with this theory and I do think they are the same person! Sorry for the paragraph lol first time evey writing one on a YT vid
I think the name says it all. He will always remain no matter what variations happen . Hence even though Sylvia killed him he said: See you soon because he will always return . He's a mortal who is truly immortal because time moves in a circle . He is not the strongest and dies a lot but he will always return because he is the who remains. The most badass mortal in comics ever. No matter how many times avengers killed him, he will return . I love this.
Agree! I’ve commented that Kang/HWR has little regret (Ravonna related perhaps) and Kang from Quantumania is HWR. Scars? He would have access to so much medical technology that a simple surgery could hide or remove the scars. Kang we just met was thrown back in time and he’s posing as Victor. Lastly, I’ve theorized that when HWR said “just crossed the threshold”, that was exact moment when Kang got sucked into the engine and thrown back in time.
Or maybe when he get back in time, his age also reversed and he become his old self before the war and scars, anything can happen in time travel, like Scott become younger when hulk were experimenting with time travel.
As he sai: see you soon. The loop begins again. As much he guarded the sacred timeline , he can't do it forever . The time loop will always have its way. I love Kang. No one can defeat him except himself , and he still failed. You kill him, a different variant pops back in. HeIs Inevitable
I actually thought about it a week ago, that the pimp particles at the end sent Kang the conqueror to a sub atomic universe in the quantum universe and that is where the TVA is located. So Kang the Conqueror just got sent to the TVA.
It would be dope if the oncoming war KANG talked about plays out in KANG Dynasty only to come full circle where we see Loki and Sophie confront KANG just like in Season1.
Is there only 1 avengers movie in this phase cycle? I want a movie with Kang the Conqueror from beginning to exile. and then the Kang Dynasty is where the conqueror takes out all the other Kangs. and then a final movie with how the Avengers take down Kang. Or that He Who Remains becomes He Who Remains, either by Kang the Conqueror himself, or the actual variant that becomes He Who Remains at the end of Loki. Thats where my mind goes lol
I think we have had enough of those closed loops in time travel movies. Otherwise we can just travel in the future and he would be gone. So our "crew" doesn't really have to do anything, he is gonna leave and the future or past him will be defeated time after time
That wouldn’t make sense tho, what he said in the video contradicts that, killing he who remains resulted in him never existing,and the other Kangs having always existed, plus the four statues in the citadel symbolised Kang the conquerer being exiled
@@darthyoda8170 He Who Remains also said, "See you soon." Killing He Who Remains at the end of Loki in effect would let every time line re-emerge branch out and also the He Who Remains variant would be created again. I also wonder if the Kang dynasty we saw at the citadel, for instance, was in hiding. Much like Sylvie was for all those years. At least thats what i want to think. Idk i see your point though.
@@darthyoda8170 I don't think so. Because the multiverse was already broken and the cracking thunder sound was example of that. He Who Remains knew the multiverse is broken so he was the least bothered when Sylvie was about to stab as he knew it's just the reset button being pushed. Plus the Council of Kangs blamed the heroes for breaking the multiverse and it's subsequent incursions. So they knew who's doing what. Plus they talked about the exiled one being dead. The Kang in Quantamania isn't dead. He just got sucked in. But he who remains is evidently dead. Come to think of it TVA isn't just about Earth 616 being the sacred tineline. No. It's also Earth 616 being the sacred universe. So it is a possibility that just the way Sylvie and all the other Loki's, who, according to me aren't from different timeline but rather different universes, who somehow managed to escape Goliath. He Who Remains himself said he knows how it all begins and how it all ends. He said he was bored. So instead of pruning his variants and feeding them to Goliath he probably managed to contain them somewhere. Because when the three superior Kangs were talking to each other, the broken multiversal timeline circle was visible around them. Come to think of it, Dr Strange broke the multiverse. No argument at that. He Who Remains dying was just like the Blip that brought back all the Kangs.
@@sabatasmia8789 he who remains was never exiled, it is clear it was Kang the conquerer in ant man, there were statues hinting at it in Loki, and was made clear in quantumania, and the video explains how the killing of he who remains led to the other variants having always existed, and made the events of Loki never happened, stösst not yet, till the cycle continues
Just to point out something about the sacred timeline. In the beginning sequence of the last episode of Loki it is implied that there are already multiple universes within the sacred timeline. The sequence starts with a look at earth and spans out into the universe until it goes out of the universe to show that that universe was inside a black hole. Now black holes could be entrances to other universes, because you know, they have a massive amount of matter compressed into an infinitesimal point, which is basically how things were before the Big Bang. Anyways, the sequence continues showing us various black holes and then zooms into another neighbouring black hole and shows us an universe and travels through it eventually changing the scene to a shot with a view point inside the sacred timeline which if one looks closely seems to be composed of multiple stings of light which can be interpreted as timelines, hence implying multiple universes. One timeline doesn’t necessarily implies only one universe. This is because multiple universes can exist at the same time as long as one cuts the branches that would lead to kangs, but this does not mean there can be only one universe, since there are many possibilities/probabilities or variants of the universe in which the result, if trimmed correctly, won’t lead to a Kang, the same way there is another set of possibilities/probabilities or variants that will lead to a Kang. These are the ones that get pruned, when universes start to branch into all the possibilities, and some lead to kangs. Just my theory because it seems we always talk about THE multiverse in terms of before and after the death of he who remains. Anyways, since he is outside of time, the multiverse is kind of like Schrödinger’s cat, in the sense that it both exists (with all branches) and doesn’t exists (the pruned one) at the same time, for all time.
I love this theory! It’s something I was speculating on as well. The connections you pointed out make a lot of sense. Plus, from an audiences point of view, keeping Kang consistent will create a bigger bad guy to deal with. Yes, I’m sure the other Kangs are no picnic, but if we could semi focus on one, it could build him up to feel like a bigger threat.
The Conqueror we saw in Ant Man will be the "main" villain, I think. The rest of Kang's will be trying to contain him, and he will keep popping up in all timelines and multiverses. He will live millions of years, millions of different lives, to come back reaching the status of HWR, and finally realising his only meaning to life is to keep this cycle going.
I always find it interesting how HWR says,"the first varient discovered" Alioth. Then switches into him saying,"I experimented, then weaponized, then ended the MV War." Is he referring to himself on the third person or did he kill the first variant and then used Alioth?
I think he is the first variant and In Loki S1 he’s the one who sends Renslayer a message so she can deliver it to younger him so he knows how to win the Multiversal war again.
@@prospersikhwari5289 Crazy, 7 months later that indeed happened in Loki Season 2 episode 3, nice one. Do you think Victor Timely was also the Kang variant in Ant Man?
@@ue4artguy385 I’m a bit thrown off now because HWR clearly states that he’s from the 31st century while Victor was born in the 16/1700 I can’t remember exactly. I am pretty sure that the kang from ant man is the one that ends up being HWR though
He calm down. He fought in many wars, he just wants to rest.. he know the TVA will arrange everything. He creates the sacred timeline without variants of himself, he is cool now.
I think it has something to do with the blue energy he uses. I see a lot of similarities between Kang & Wenwu. When we first see Kane in Antman, he seems kind-hearted. Then later on when we see him, he is using the blue energy, and his personality has changed, and he is all about Conqueroring. It's the exactly the same with Wenwu. When we first see him in Shang Chi, we see how he conquered many civilizations and stayed young for over 1000 years. He used the rings, that also had that blue power force. Yet when there power is turned off, by Shang-chi mother or him putting them away, he becomes almost like a completely different person. I honestly think it has somthing to do with that blue energy force. I would like for some one to do a video on that.
@@jasoncullen7787 In Ant-man, Kang says he "meant" to be a conquerer (like it is his unquestionable destiny). I wonder if conquering everything....defeating every variant of himself.....leaves him empty and he goes a little crazy b/c he has nothing else to accomplish.
@@thaUnWavering Agree, this and spending what may feel like a millennia isolated at the end of time could make anyone go insane, or change of personalities. He is only human at the end of the day.
I like the thought of Quantumania's Kang & He Who Remains being the same person at different points in their life. Him being the version that was in the teaser for season 2 of Loki, not so much. I also think after Kang lost against Scott & Hope, he should maybe end up in confrontation with another MCU character before Kang Dynasty which helps develop his character closer to He Who Remains & even has him ally with the Avengers in Kang Dynasty. From there, they could take him two directions: 1) Have him flip on the Avengers at the end of Kang Dynasty after beating all the other Kangs which leads into Secret Wars, & is the start of his plan to become He Who Remains. That would set the Avengers up with the opportunity to stop him in Secret Wars & let all the other multiverses survive rather than repeat the cycle. 2) He sets up becoming He Who Remains in Secret Wars to loop the timeline back to the MCU we know successfully. 1 would be the better story to me, especially if they want to open the multiverses up for different actors in repeating characters. Trying to set up He Who Remains would also be a good way to split the Avengers between maximum life v. maximum order, which would pose Spider-Man & Dr. Strange's argument in No Way Home, to all the Avengers, putting them with or against Kang.
Dont work, when that should be the same person the Kang in quantum must be the older version (scar in the face) but this just don’t work cause the Kang in Loki is definitely dead, we already seen his Mummy and this was even before Loki becomes the time keeper… So it just don’t work without logical issues…
This was my theory when I first watched the movie. I said that we're actually watching the origin of He who remains, complete with Alioth. Alioth was is the purple smoke that followed Modok. Watch it again. Great take from you though. And the clue was He who remains saying that he always ends up right back here, at the end of Loki.
Whenever they show the statues of the Time Keepers and Kang, all I can think is "that is the inside of the Atlanta Marriott Marquis Hotel", where it was filmed, and now you think it, too.
I don't think kang is he who remains. I think kang was the one who saw the chaos caused by his variants and started the war and he who remains was one of the peaceful variants who got traumatized and did whatever he said loki s1 finale to save his own timeline.
I don’t think you’re right, mostly because like everyone I want to believe they are the same 😅 first thing that came to mind was “how can a peaceful one end a war without being violent?” Then I remembered ALIOTH 🙆🏽♂️ so I ended up giving you more aim 😅🤷🏾♂️
Loki S2 proved that he's not the same. Near the end, Mobius said they found a Kang variant in 616 timeline where "they" took care of him. "I guess one of 'em caused a little bit of a ruckus on 616 adjacent realm, but they handled it." - these were his exact words.
I don't get these comments saying you're wrong. I walked out of the theater thinking "yeah, that's totally He Who Remains." It's pretty obvious if you're paying even a shred of attention. Kang even says, "You will help me. I know how this all ends." It's also important to remember that He Who Remains was delirious and more than a little crazy - Kang feels he's the one that needs to cull the other timelines, and as he ages over eons, I could definitely see him losing his edge.
Yes, he who remains the one villain beaten by ANTS. G...T ...F...O ...H!!!!! Galactus and Dr Doom are like .... REALLY? Magneto : His acting is good. But he S*CKS as a SUPER VILLAIN! "Hulk confused - if he so bad ...why so many of him?"
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 uh Kang wasn't beaten by ants. Quit being one of those hyperbolic dunce losers who cry and whine that movies are a seperate continuity than the comics. It took an army to even get Kang pushed back and we saw a minute later he probably killed all those ants. Scott and Hope beat him but didn't even really defeat him cause we didn't see his death. Kang just shrunk more.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44Futuristic ants that had years of technology to study and create things and btw, he wasn't beaten by ants, he probably killed them all and then he went against Scott to get out of the quantum realm, Ant Man would have died but Hope entered and saved him. In what moment he was beaten by ants? Did you even watch the movie? Btw how depressing is your life? You have over 40 comments in this channel, if you don't like Marvel why you keep coming back here? Go get a life kiddo
@@osen9881 ngl it was kinda weak that it was ants, but ill let it slide considering in they was like super ants with advanced tech and knowledge, and if ants were our size they would be a nigh unstoppable super species.
Loved that. Had the same thoughts about Kang but also think he is Victor timely and that experience and the war changed him. Tempered his blood lust .Posted this idea on new rockstars two days ago
You nailed it! That's exactly what I've been thinking after seeing Quantumania and then rewatching Loki. I think HWR is the Kang from Quantumania...he just has a lot of character progression to go through between now and then.
Kang's story is always a loop. He who remains needs to create the younger version of himself, so he will have to start the multiversal war that he already won in his own past. Makes perfect sense and makes for a cool story too.
I think its more direct than you're letting on. I suggest the Kang from Quantum Mania gets sucked into the Void right there at the end, meets Aoilith and unifies the timeline (however this event will take place at the end of phase -- its just backwards and out of time). I think the Kang we saw has already conquered all the Kangs. Hes angry and confused but when we peaked into what he has done, it was shown that he has ALREADY destroyed countless universes and countless avengers.
One thing. At the very beginning of the final episode of Loki season 1 the camera zooms out from earth into space showing the galaxies and eventually our universe. Then 2 side by side universes. Exiting the "LEFT" universe the camera moves to the right Overton of UNIVERSE 2 then zooms in to where Loki and Sylvie now are in Universe 2.
How do you suspect Kang will get/got his name in the MCU? I believe in the comics it was essentially the sound of him working on his armor and it caught on. But I wonder if we will get input into why his name is Kang (and not just Nathaniel) since we see that other variant use their other names (Victor Timely, Tut, etc.)? It seems as it would be something significant since Majors puts such emotion into saying "I am Kang".
Janet Van Dyne was just being a Karen when she trapped Kang. The timelines she saw being destroyed were those branches caused by his out of control variants. He was doing the right thing and her mind was too small to see the big picture.
hell no he wasnt doing the right thing lmao. do u even know who kang the conqueror is? he was just trying to convince her he wasnt bad because hes a master manipulator. so many casuals out there and its a no wonder why yall have the dumbest theories
I think you are unnecessarily making head cannon for the scar and ignoring the real-world reason they gave him a scar. They wanted it clear that Conqueror Kang is not the same as He Who Remains. Maybe once in his cycle, He Who Remains got there on a similar route as Conqueror Kang but they are still, in fact, different variants. In matter of fact I do not even think when He Who Remains says see you soon, he meant him exactly but just one of his variants. I think the only thing he is sure of is that one of him will win.
It would be a pretty crazy twist if we go through several movies fighting Kang, the Multiversal War starting, etc. Then we get a post-credit scene at the end of Secret Wars showing Kang discovering Alioth for the first time and creating Miss Minutes. Would kind of tie everything in neatly.
i do also believe that when Rama Tut was teasing Scarlet Centurion that he’s disappointed that he wasnt the one who killed him… i really think theyre referring He Who Remains and not Kang the one Scott killed, bcoz after Rama tut teases Centurion, Immortus showed them that the timelines where branching already meaning that HWR was already killed, by Sylvie ( Loki ) 💁🏻♀️💯
Come on Ryan, I commented this theory in your quantumania breakdown video saying how no one realizes Kang and HWR are the same. You could have credited me 😭
A popular theory is that He who remains is victor timely who is just a variant of kang. the end credit scene of ant man shows Loki, and he says “it’s him”, now it’s thought he’s saying this is the variant that becomes he who remains. The idea is Loki wants to restore this variant to power, and he’ll probably get killed in the series.
i agree with this. and even ant man and kassie highlighted that sometimes you have to do things differently, his original plan failed and finding alioth is his new plan
RYAN: THE MULTIVERSE IS AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF SIMILAR DIMENSIONS WITH VARYING DEGREES OF DIFFERENCES. ALSO RYAN: HOW CAN TWO KANGS POSSIBLY HAVE THE SAME PLAN? ALSO ALSO RYAN: OK, IT'S REALLY TECHNICALLY TWO DIFFERENT KANGS.
The first OG variant that was a scientist became Kang! If we go by what he who remains, showed us through the temp pad, and what Janet said about him being a scientist when she tapped into his mind
First time I watched the Loki finale, I instantly thought of the sequence with HWR as the actual Kang saga ending. If there’s a sacred timeline, our MCU, then he requires the heroes in that timeline to defeat all other variant universes, their “heroes” and own Kangs. Plus the broken statues I thought of other Kang variants.
I always thought the same thing for the exact same reasons. I felt even stronger when I noticed that Alioth’s eyes are the exact same color as the multiversal core that Kang got sucked into. That Kang said he’s the only one who can stop it & if that’s true that also makes them the same & like you said when it look like he was reminiscing on the things he’s done I think he came up with the Tva instead of him still doing it himself. It seems a little more understandable when they do it then when he does it as Kang finally once he take out all his variants he will then become “He Who Remains”
I still don’t get how shrinking so small seems to bring people to the same area. You’d actually become like light years away. If you and a friend shrunk at the same time but opposite side of the room. It would take light years to travel to each other
Ended up here after watching Loki Season 2, Episode 3 wondering if that was Victor Timely in Ant Man. Thank you @ScreenCrush for making these informative videos. A lot less head scratching after watching this and your most recent Loki videos.
There were 2 Mobius's throughout the show. That's why when he sits down at Renslayer's coffee table he notices his condensation ring from his drink is already there. Mobius is aware of the 2 realities. I'm not saying you are wrong, it could further support your theory, the last 2 timelines. One is the original home of He Who Remains and the other is the last fallen Kang variant. He Who Remains created the Time Keepers to hide himself in "the sacred timeline" and the 2nd reality is the home of himself Kang the Conqueror. He uses HIS little remote control to send Loki to HIS TVA where HIS statues are. He places it neatly on the desk KNOWING Sylvie is going to snatch it.
You're assuming that the MCU multiverse us tied to different branch timeline, when in fact that is never for sure stated. Allow me to explain: At the end of Loki season HWR explains to Loki and Silvy that a variant of himself came to him as a scientist the same thing that Kang (The Conqueror) said to Janet in the Quantum Realm. And it was this variant of HWR that discovered there were universes stacked on top of each other---Not timelines---not branch timelines, but universe all existing in the same flow of time stacked one on top of the other. It was then that this variant began to meet his other variants and through these meeting of each other they began to mess with the proper flow of time therefore creating a infinite amount of branch variants that all were hell bent on destroying the other. How do we substantiate this is actually happening. Well, at the end of Ant Man Quantumaniam 3 specific variants of Kang are in a secluded room as if they had been in this place before, and they were very well acquainted with one another, my personal opinion is that Immortis, the Pharaoh, the Cyborg, and HWR are the first four variants of Kang Prime (The Conqueror-Nathaniel Richards of the 31st Century) initially got in contact with, in which these are the Kangs that existed in the different universes that were stacked existing in the same flow of time. Which is why they weren't and could not be pruned out of existence by HWR because they all exist in the sacred Timeline. Which is also why Victor Timely is able to exist, given that you can have multiple variants of the same person existing in different timelines and in different universe (in the same timeline), I.E., Steve Rogers in End Game, Doctor Strange Multi-verse of Madness, the three Peters (Spiderman) No Way Home, ETC. This is all the same sacred timeline but happening in different universes. The Branch timlines are the issue here which is why HWR created the TVA. The High Council of Kangs (Immortis, Ramatut, Cyborg, and HWR) got together and realized that the most evil of them is Kang Prime and locked him away in the Quantum Realm out of the reaches of time to keep him from making more branch timelines. I also believe that Kang Prime interacting and having encounters with Ramatut, Immortis, HWR, and the Cyborg created other branch timelines and theses branches were eventually pruned by HWR but the Kangs escaped to a place that do not follow the conventional laws of time like the TVA... given HWR the impression that he had won... When in fact they were just biding their time! All conjecture though, so we'll see!
there’s is not only one universe in He Who Remains’ sacred timeline. There is still a massive multiverse it’s just one that is tightly controlled and doesn’t result in any threat to the existence of the multiverse or threaten He Who Remains himself
This biggest hole is the scars. How do they just disappear. It also seems weird than he would just abandon his technology, even though the board in his citadel showed that he still showed interest in science.
That statue also has the scars of Kang chiseled on it. The Kang Variants using pruning sticks. All those resources are Quantum energy related too. Because when someone gets pruned they basically teleport to Alioth. But why there specifically
It’s crazy. I was legit talking about this lastnight with a co-worker that Kang is actually He Who Remains. My theory is that since they continuously show time as a circle, he who remains knew that at some point someone was gonna make it to his palace and kill him because like it’s stated in one of the movies: Time isn’t linear. This hints at everything going on in the MCU has happened already and will happen again once Kang is “killed” by Loki. An endless cycle that could only be broken if Loki and Sylvie took up He Who Remains offer to run the TVA (if I remember that correctly)
HWR looks like a mirror opposite of kang from quatumania May be they were together with renslayer as general and HWR just backstabbed kang into exile abd took his seat at TVA after kang conquered nd build everything Thats why he looks so disconnected with renslayer and also while ordering memories wipe protocol
The dimension he went into after ANTMAN throws him into the engine, is probably going to be the pocket dimension that Alieth is in, and he will end up taming him and killing the other kangs, and now knowing what it takes to get put INTO that dimension, he can create the sticks that the TVA use, to portal people there, because he now knows it’s smaller than the quantum realm
I've been saying this exact thing since the movie released. He's definitely hwr. Not a variant, not a repeat version, he's exactly him. And we just saw part of he who remains origin story. Time works differently when you exist outside of time.
@13:45 I just noticed, the miniature on Kang's desk when he's telling Loki about "the first variant" has glasses and a lantern that is very remniscient of his appearance as Victor Timely.
Take another look at the "rusting" effect that dissolves and deflects Scott's first pym-disc as it gets close to the energy core. Reminds me of what Alioth does when he eats inorganic matter in the void. Classic Loki's helmet is one example.
I posted this whole theory on your last plotholes explained video BUT you missed the most important part... the whole point of quantumania is for kang to be sucked into the engine core, that is where he meets Alioth. He needed to lose to antman, he needed those Pym particles to send him to the realm of Alioth so he could get the weapon he needs to win the war. To end the war
My biggest question is this. Why do we assume the kang that "died" in AMATW was who d Kang variants was talking about. Might just have been the one from Loki that they were talking about.
I agree. Kang from quantum mania is the same as HWR. I dont think its a variant following the same steps though. I think he is exactly him down to the atoms, which is possible due to time in general annd traveling through it. HWR was that kangs ending, that kang was/is just in an earlier stage of himself when encountered in quantum mania. But I dont know if hes still around now because the quantum universe seems to be somehow outside of normal time entirely. So perhaps that kang is now gone and removed entirely from the multiverse, a break in the loop perhaps?
@screencrush your strongest argument here is that he who remains resides in a place where time and space have no effect. Remember the infinity stones in the drawer. So, if he who remains is in the quantumn realm, there's no other Kang that it can be. I'm thinking the Kang dynasty post credit scene is a super flash forward for after he who remains dies. However what doesn't make sense here is when quantumnmania takes place in the timeline vs. The loki series. If he who remains is in the quantumn realm, then loki killed he who remains before quantumnmania. Therefore they can't be the same person.
I love this theory, this is more or less exactly what I thought was going on when he "died" in the movie, nothing ever seems to die when its shrank further (AEB Darren Cross) so ending up at the end of time and finding a cloud dragon seems (relatively) plausible
Because he was trying to prevent a multiverse incursion by keeping the timeline from branching out. This also helped prevent the Kang from Ant-man quantumania from destroying his timeline. He was concerned about destroying the sacred timeline because it's the Avengers from his timeline that will end the multiverse war in which he and his other variants are responsible for. Though, from what they are showing is that Dr. Strange, Spider-man, and Loki might be the problem.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
HWR is more syllables than He Who Remains.
If you say W like "dubya" it's at best the same number of syllables. Either way, just say He Who Remains, Ryan.
YOOOOO
@@nhband1t Screw it, let's just call him H Dubbs.
Hahahaha exactly. Sometimes I wonder if he does things like this just so we head straight to the comments section 😂
@@nhband1t He. Dubya. Remains.
Kang said in Antman after Janet asked who Kang was “ Kang is who I have to be” and the fact he was trying bargain is when I realized we was watching the younger version who hadn’t won the war yet. I like how you put out how he finds alioth
He who remains doesn’t even have scars
@JBurnz001 because they aren't the same individual. They are similar in their goals, path & eventually, their outcomes.
@@doublet147 that would mean every single kang with have the same outcome using that logic. Except we know that to not be true
@JBurnz001 no it doesn't. Not every Kang has the exact same goals/focus. We are basically going to see in future films how KTC becomes HWR. But it's not the EXACT same HWR we know. He didn't become reincarnated. KTC is just the variant that had the same drive/goals that HWR did before HWR became HWR (and he was probably also called Kang the Conqueror before he became HWR).
@@JBurnz001 I mean.. did you not watch the entire video? In the video it was logically argued that in fact HWR might have at that time a tech to regenerate him and therefor it did regenerate his scars. He is supposed to be insanely old, why does he look young? Due to his regeneration tech and it would be quite odd to regenerate only his age and not his physical scars. I think it is great that HWR doesn't have scars in Loki, because it would be a dead giveaway.. it's better to surprise the audience that doesn't deep dive into the logic. After all, if you deep dive into everything, you'll get the least surprised and the movies were not done for us deep-divers, it's done for an audience that has patience as well.
When Kang said that he'll burn them out of time? It's exactly what HWR did. He pruned their timelines. Kang escaped by accident when he was sucked into his machine. Only to reappear as Timely. Timely began rebuilding his time machine, hence in the end? Becoming HWR, all over again.
one man have infinite version of him that's what he's saying
It’s all in a loop!
Agree!!!
and about he said "not every variant of me have pure heart"
most his variant just wanna play with time innocently, except HWR, he just wanna burn them out of time, he want to win
so the one who not pure heart actually HWR
I made a video about this about a week ago. The points in this video are basically the same.
MCU usually follows one version of a Super Hero or Villain. Following that idea, I agree that Kang is He Who Remains. We are following this one Kang's journey.
it cant be!!! HWR is portrayed as a "good guy". Why would they follow the good version of him when its the main villain they should be building up?? it doesnt make sense. kang in antman was full of rage and vengeance. he wants all types of violence when HWR wants peace. idk how everybody is missing that part
Yah,and if you check it's all has been about him,Loki and Quatumania,it all leads up until the end of time!
Yah i think dat Kang is He who remains!
@@unculturedswine9984kang is alot younger an has been trough way less then he who remains,
Also Loki started out with the attributes you used to describe kang but he ended up being a good guy, with kang they do the opposite and Stert with showing the good version and the last movie version of him will be the worst version
@@bakmata6795 tell me u don't know Kang from the comics by not telling me. This is why y'all come up with dumb theories. Whatever. I don't want to take the time to explain.
@@unculturedswine9984 HWR most certainly isn't a good guy. Remember, this man fought in the multiversal war just like his other variants. And he won the war by destroying all other universes that were part of his multiverse back then, except for the one universe which formed his Sacred Timeline.
When you destroy an universe, you kill all living beings in that universe, which makes you a mass murderer. And HWR didn't destroy just one universe, he destroyed billions upon billions of them. Then he set up the TVA to continue his work - destroying newly emerging universes (branched timelines) instead if him and feeding them to the Alioth.
Mobius and other TVA agents at least have the valid excuse that they were manipulated and brainwashed into doing it. No one forced HWR though, he did it all of his own free will. The fact that he presents it all as a good achievement that was done only with the best of intentions for the good of the universe simply proves that he's a psychopath.
My theory was always that He Who Rains spelled out everything to us, he is a reliable narrator. That he has in fact lived a million lifetimes bc of the endless loop, some of those lifetimes he was Kang & he tried to go abt the multiverse a certain way but he always failed. The only way that was successful was for him to choose a diff path that lead him to become He Who Remains, which would also correlate with Endgame & how there was only 1 possible path out of millions.
Yup bc even if they did beat thanos in a different way, Kang might’ve pruned the timeline, it had to happen the way it happened.
I think this theory holds up well, especially considering how it mirrors the updated comic book depictions of Nathaniel Richard's endless cycle of always becoming Kang because no matter what path he chooses, his reality is that he will never have the love he so desires. Even in all the lifetimes where he starts off choosing to do everything he can to prevent himself from becoming Kang, the events that he goes through always ends up pushing him into repeating the cycle of recreating himself as Kang.
Marvel could mirror that with just the idea that Nathaniel Richards, the scientist, has himself lived a million lifetimes as all these variants of himself in an attempt to find a way to keep himself from destroying the multiverse. Ultimately seeing that the only way he's found so far in his millions of lifetimes is to conqueror all of himself and create the singular timeline where he can prevent his variants from making other choices. And since there must always be a " he who remains " in order to maintain it, it will ultimately come down to someone else having to take on his mantle in order for Nathaniel Richards to finally be free of his endless loop.
Each time the multiverse resets He Who Remains script gets longer because at the end, there is only one outcome. That's why it's scripted.
Doesn't make sense because while he who remains is in Loki, Kang is in the quantum realm at the same time. So they can't be the same person
@@brokenSnake Yes they can, you're not understanding what it means for someone in the future to travel through time, based on how they've set it up.
You're approaching it as if this is all one event leading into another in order. That would only make sense if we were watching this whole thing JUST from Kang's point of view.
Time is not linear, it has already happened in it's entirety from beginning to end. Everything Kang has done, in every variant of his, has already happened. We the viewer are only seeing those events one by one, as they happen for us and the characters.
I really hope they return this Kang as the big bad. I don't think I'll be as invested if they just introduce a different Kang
my thought process is that Kang is in the same probability storm Scott and Hope were in. My theory is he'll accumulate all the knowledge of his potential variants thus making him know literally every outcome of his every move hence he can become He Who Remains
Very interesting theory
He's still a man at the end of the day. I don't think he's got superhuman recall
probability storm creates variants of every outcome. so literally he has an equal amount of survival as death.
similarly, every variant in the council of kangs holds the potential to create their own sacred timelines within the multiverse.
the concept of schroedingers cat applies to both. Loki is the degree of change.
in a quantum computer each outcomenis known as a qubit. each qubitnis reliant upon its chronological entangled past.
within the mcu future qubits transfer information to older breaking causality and creating different strings of entangled futures.
this is the purpose behind the infinity war.
the loki series foreshadows that Loki is meant to create change by altering events. he does this by bringing an entangled mind stone from the future to the avengers through the first avengers movie. which is simultaneously taking place before and after the Loki series.
Loki both dies and lives in the infinty war opening act.
It is insinuated in ragnarock that loki enchanted and swapped identities with valkery.
meaning in one of two scenarios valkery died by Thanos snapping her neck.
the Russo bros both lied and told the truth in their interview.
these writers are on some genius level shite.
Basically has his own council down there
@Budgie Cat they explained in Loki that Kang was just a man. They also explained he was teleporting via the temp pad on his hand. He had it preprogrammed to dodge their attacks because he exists outside of time and had seen everything they would do up to a certain point.
His variants were not trapped inside him, they didn't exist. At least not any that would discover the multiverse and become a threat. That's the whole point of the tva, clipping any branch timeliness that would lead to another multiversal war. By killing him, they left the "garden" without a "gardener" so to speak. The multiverse was allowed to grow freely and thus "weeds" (in this case, Kang variants) were able to start popping up again.
You guys crushed it again with extremely valid points! If I may add on, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the song used in the teaser trailer for Quantumania is “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.” There’s a line in it that always stuck out to me, and it’s “oh, I’ve finally decided where my future lies, beyond the yellow brick road.” And with the new theory Ryan gave us saying that Kang is destined to make the decisions to become He Who Remains, I think this song is a new clew to indicate that. Before the Loki Finale, We always speculated that the one at the end of time would be a king Loki or a intimidating figure; but then it was revealed to be a bit so scary version of Kang, even HWR said it himself, “not what you were expecting?” Goodbye yellow brick road is the clew that tells us that Kang’s Future lies beyond the Timeline. Loki is a lot Like the wizard of oz too, dorthy and her friends (Loki and Sylvie and Mobius in this case) travel a journey to a castle to eventually meet the one in charge who was a not so intimidating figure in this case, Loki and Sylvie traveling to the end of time to He Who Remain’s Castle to meet him and be underwhelmed. So I think that you guys are spit on with this theory and I do think they are the same person! Sorry for the paragraph lol first time evey writing one on a YT vid
I think the name says it all. He will always remain no matter what variations happen . Hence even though Sylvia killed him he said: See you soon because he will always return . He's a mortal who is truly immortal because time moves in a circle . He is not the strongest and dies a lot but he will always return because he is the who remains. The most badass mortal in comics ever. No matter how many times avengers killed him, he will return . I love this.
He even called himself a conqueror in Loki. So he must have been the Conqueror that the other Kang's named the Conqueror.
one man have infinite version of him that's what he's saying
No, his whole speach is a vague allusion to his varients and fan service cause HWR is a verient of Kang
He has been called that. Which could mean he was mistaken as that
@@proxjayant exactly HWR doesn’t have the scars on his face, and HWR wanted to end the war The conquer is ready for WAR‼️
@@Tores444 "I've been called many things a conqueror......"
Not, my variants have been called many things
Agree! I’ve commented that Kang/HWR has little regret (Ravonna related perhaps) and Kang from Quantumania is HWR. Scars? He would have access to so much medical technology that a simple surgery could hide or remove the scars. Kang we just met was thrown back in time and he’s posing as Victor. Lastly, I’ve theorized that when HWR said “just crossed the threshold”, that was exact moment when Kang got sucked into the engine and thrown back in time.
Yeah. They healed Hawkeye back in age of ultron “it’s you not even your wife will be able to tell the difference
Or maybe when he get back in time, his age also reversed and he become his old self before the war and scars, anything can happen in time travel, like Scott become younger when hulk were experimenting with time travel.
As he sai: see you soon. The loop begins again. As much he guarded the sacred timeline , he can't do it forever . The time loop will always have its way. I love Kang. No one can defeat him except himself , and he still failed. You kill him, a different variant pops back in. HeIs Inevitable
I actually thought about it a week ago, that the pimp particles at the end sent Kang the conqueror to a sub atomic universe in the quantum universe and that is where the TVA is located. So Kang the Conqueror just got sent to the TVA.
pimp particles
pimp particles lmao
Sounds like a great idea, but Timely does not have the Conquerors facial scars. 🤔
I wanna have pimp particles too 😉😁
Pimp particles lmfao 🤣
I believe he is. That is why he told Sylvie, “I’ll be seeing you.”
It would be dope if the oncoming war KANG talked about plays out in KANG Dynasty only to come full circle where we see Loki and Sophie confront KANG just like in Season1.
…or to help The Conqueror win and fix their timeline.
Is there only 1 avengers movie in this phase cycle? I want a movie with Kang the Conqueror from beginning to exile. and then the Kang Dynasty is where the conqueror takes out all the other Kangs. and then a final movie with how the Avengers take down Kang. Or that He Who Remains becomes He Who Remains, either by Kang the Conqueror himself, or the actual variant that becomes He Who Remains at the end of Loki. Thats where my mind goes lol
I think we have had enough of those closed loops in time travel movies. Otherwise we can just travel in the future and he would be gone. So our "crew" doesn't really have to do anything, he is gonna leave and the future or past him will be defeated time after time
Screen crush literally killing it again and again! Best mcu theory channel hands down!
Correct 🙏🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Absolutely!
Exactly. The council wasn't talking about Scott and Hope killing the exiled one. They were talking about Loki and Sylvie.
Nice ! Haven’t thought about that - I like it 👍
That wouldn’t make sense tho, what he said in the video contradicts that, killing he who remains resulted in him never existing,and the other Kangs having always existed, plus the four statues in the citadel symbolised Kang the conquerer being exiled
@@darthyoda8170 He Who Remains also said, "See you soon." Killing He Who Remains at the end of Loki in effect would let every time line re-emerge branch out and also the He Who Remains variant would be created again. I also wonder if the Kang dynasty we saw at the citadel, for instance, was in hiding. Much like Sylvie was for all those years. At least thats what i want to think. Idk i see your point though.
@@darthyoda8170 I don't think so. Because the multiverse was already broken and the cracking thunder sound was example of that. He Who Remains knew the multiverse is broken so he was the least bothered when Sylvie was about to stab as he knew it's just the reset button being pushed. Plus the Council of Kangs blamed the heroes for breaking the multiverse and it's subsequent incursions. So they knew who's doing what. Plus they talked about the exiled one being dead. The Kang in Quantamania isn't dead. He just got sucked in. But he who remains is evidently dead. Come to think of it TVA isn't just about Earth 616 being the sacred tineline. No. It's also Earth 616 being the sacred universe. So it is a possibility that just the way Sylvie and all the other Loki's, who, according to me aren't from different timeline but rather different universes, who somehow managed to escape Goliath. He Who Remains himself said he knows how it all begins and how it all ends. He said he was bored. So instead of pruning his variants and feeding them to Goliath he probably managed to contain them somewhere. Because when the three superior Kangs were talking to each other, the broken multiversal timeline circle was visible around them. Come to think of it, Dr Strange broke the multiverse. No argument at that. He Who Remains dying was just like the Blip that brought back all the Kangs.
@@sabatasmia8789 he who remains was never exiled, it is clear it was Kang the conquerer in ant man, there were statues hinting at it in Loki, and was made clear in quantumania, and the video explains how the killing of he who remains led to the other variants having always existed, and made the events of Loki never happened, stösst not yet, till the cycle continues
Just to point out something about the sacred timeline. In the beginning sequence of the last episode of Loki it is implied that there are already multiple universes within the sacred timeline. The sequence starts with a look at earth and spans out into the universe until it goes out of the universe to show that that universe was inside a black hole. Now black holes could be entrances to other universes, because you know, they have a massive amount of matter compressed into an infinitesimal point, which is basically how things were before the Big Bang. Anyways, the sequence continues showing us various black holes and then zooms into another neighbouring black hole and shows us an universe and travels through it eventually changing the scene to a shot with a view point inside the sacred timeline which if one looks closely seems to be composed of multiple stings of light which can be interpreted as timelines, hence implying multiple universes. One timeline doesn’t necessarily implies only one universe. This is because multiple universes can exist at the same time as long as one cuts the branches that would lead to kangs, but this does not mean there can be only one universe, since there are many possibilities/probabilities or variants of the universe in which the result, if trimmed correctly, won’t lead to a Kang, the same way there is another set of possibilities/probabilities or variants that will lead to a Kang. These are the ones that get pruned, when universes start to branch into all the possibilities, and some lead to kangs. Just my theory because it seems we always talk about THE multiverse in terms of before and after the death of he who remains. Anyways, since he is outside of time, the multiverse is kind of like Schrödinger’s cat, in the sense that it both exists (with all branches) and doesn’t exists (the pruned one) at the same time, for all time.
I love this theory! It’s something I was speculating on as well. The connections you pointed out make a lot of sense. Plus, from an audiences point of view, keeping Kang consistent will create a bigger bad guy to deal with. Yes, I’m sure the other Kangs are no picnic, but if we could semi focus on one, it could build him up to feel like a bigger threat.
I am OH SO GLAD you did this video, 'cause I left the movie theater saying exactly that!
In the end? Antman Did help Kang escape, either by accident or did HWR plan it this way? Even Antman wasn't sure of did he win or not.
I didnt see kang die,i saw him got sucked in that thing.the other kangs think that he died.they wasnt there to see what happened to him.
The Conqueror we saw in Ant Man will be the "main" villain, I think. The rest of Kang's will be trying to contain him, and he will keep popping up in all timelines and multiverses. He will live millions of years, millions of different lives, to come back reaching the status of HWR, and finally realising his only meaning to life is to keep this cycle going.
Yep. My thoughts exactly
I always find it interesting how HWR says,"the first varient discovered" Alioth. Then switches into him saying,"I experimented, then weaponized, then ended the MV War." Is he referring to himself on the third person or did he kill the first variant and then used Alioth?
I think he is the first variant and In Loki S1 he’s the one who sends Renslayer a message so she can deliver it to younger him so he knows how to win the Multiversal war again.
I took it to mean that the first variant only made the discovery that Alioth exists while HWR was able to tame and weaponize Alioth
@@prospersikhwari5289 Crazy, 7 months later that indeed happened in Loki Season 2 episode 3, nice one. Do you think Victor Timely was also the Kang variant in Ant Man?
@@ue4artguy385 I’m a bit thrown off now because HWR clearly states that he’s from the 31st century while Victor was born in the 16/1700 I can’t remember exactly. I am pretty sure that the kang from ant man is the one that ends up being HWR though
What do you think causes Kang's personality to switch to that of HWR? Is it simply loneliness? Being weary of such a long life?
He calm down. He fought in many wars, he just wants to rest.. he know the TVA will arrange everything. He creates the sacred timeline without variants of himself, he is cool now.
He finds out he’s the one who will erase the use of the pronouns they/them.😎
I think it has something to do with the blue energy he uses. I see a lot of similarities between Kang & Wenwu. When we first see Kane in Antman, he seems kind-hearted. Then later on when we see him, he is using the blue energy, and his personality has changed, and he is all about Conqueroring. It's the exactly the same with Wenwu. When we first see him in Shang Chi, we see how he conquered many civilizations and stayed young for over 1000 years. He used the rings, that also had that blue power force. Yet when there power is turned off, by Shang-chi mother or him putting them away, he becomes almost like a completely different person. I honestly think it has somthing to do with that blue energy force. I would like for some one to do a video on that.
@@jasoncullen7787 In Ant-man, Kang says he "meant" to be a conquerer (like it is his unquestionable destiny). I wonder if conquering everything....defeating every variant of himself.....leaves him empty and he goes a little crazy b/c he has nothing else to accomplish.
@@thaUnWavering Agree, this and spending what may feel like a millennia isolated at the end of time could make anyone go insane, or change of personalities. He is only human at the end of the day.
I like the thought of Quantumania's Kang & He Who Remains being the same person at different points in their life. Him being the version that was in the teaser for season 2 of Loki, not so much. I also think after Kang lost against Scott & Hope, he should maybe end up in confrontation with another MCU character before Kang Dynasty which helps develop his character closer to He Who Remains & even has him ally with the Avengers in Kang Dynasty. From there, they could take him two directions: 1) Have him flip on the Avengers at the end of Kang Dynasty after beating all the other Kangs which leads into Secret Wars, & is the start of his plan to become He Who Remains. That would set the Avengers up with the opportunity to stop him in Secret Wars & let all the other multiverses survive rather than repeat the cycle. 2) He sets up becoming He Who Remains in Secret Wars to loop the timeline back to the MCU we know successfully. 1 would be the better story to me, especially if they want to open the multiverses up for different actors in repeating characters. Trying to set up He Who Remains would also be a good way to split the Avengers between maximum life v. maximum order, which would pose Spider-Man & Dr. Strange's argument in No Way Home, to all the Avengers, putting them with or against Kang.
Dont work, when that should be the same person the Kang in quantum must be the older version (scar in the face) but this just don’t work cause the Kang in Loki is definitely dead, we already seen his Mummy and this was even before Loki becomes the time keeper…
So it just don’t work without logical issues…
This was my theory when I first watched the movie. I said that we're actually watching the origin of He who remains, complete with Alioth. Alioth was is the purple smoke that followed Modok. Watch it again. Great take from you though. And the clue was He who remains saying that he always ends up right back here, at the end of Loki.
Alioth is in quantumania? Which scene exactly?
Whenever they show the statues of the Time Keepers and Kang, all I can think is "that is the inside of the Atlanta Marriott Marquis Hotel", where it was filmed, and now you think it, too.
I don't think kang is he who remains.
I think kang was the one who saw the chaos caused by his variants and started the war and he who remains was one of the peaceful variants who got traumatized and did whatever he said loki s1 finale to save his own timeline.
Same thought as mine.
Might be but I agree with Ryan here. More evidence that this kang is HWR.
please get rid of this Rick and Morty writers while you still can!!!! SAVE PHASE FIVE aka PHASE DIVE!!!
I don’t think you’re right, mostly because like everyone I want to believe they are the same 😅 first thing that came to mind was “how can a peaceful one end a war without being violent?” Then I remembered ALIOTH 🙆🏽♂️ so I ended up giving you more aim 😅🤷🏾♂️
one man have infinite version of him that's what he's saying
Loki S2 proved that he's not the same. Near the end, Mobius said they found a Kang variant in 616 timeline where "they" took care of him.
"I guess one of 'em caused a little bit of a ruckus on 616 adjacent realm, but they handled it." - these were his exact words.
I don't get these comments saying you're wrong. I walked out of the theater thinking "yeah, that's totally He Who Remains." It's pretty obvious if you're paying even a shred of attention. Kang even says, "You will help me. I know how this all ends." It's also important to remember that He Who Remains was delirious and more than a little crazy - Kang feels he's the one that needs to cull the other timelines, and as he ages over eons, I could definitely see him losing his edge.
Yes, he who remains the one villain beaten by ANTS. G...T ...F...O ...H!!!!!
Galactus and Dr Doom are like .... REALLY?
Magneto : His acting is good. But he S*CKS as a SUPER VILLAIN!
"Hulk confused - if he so bad ...why so many of him?"
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 it’s obviously him.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44 uh Kang wasn't beaten by ants. Quit being one of those hyperbolic dunce losers who cry and whine that movies are a seperate continuity than the comics. It took an army to even get Kang pushed back and we saw a minute later he probably killed all those ants. Scott and Hope beat him but didn't even really defeat him cause we didn't see his death. Kang just shrunk more.
@@SuperOmnicronsj44Futuristic ants that had years of technology to study and create things and btw, he wasn't beaten by ants, he probably killed them all and then he went against Scott to get out of the quantum realm, Ant Man would have died but Hope entered and saved him.
In what moment he was beaten by ants? Did you even watch the movie?
Btw how depressing is your life? You have over 40 comments in this channel, if you don't like Marvel why you keep coming back here? Go get a life kiddo
@@osen9881 ngl it was kinda weak that it was ants, but ill let it slide considering in they was like super ants with advanced tech and knowledge, and if ants were our size they would be a nigh unstoppable super species.
Loved that. Had the same thoughts about Kang but also think he is Victor timely and that experience and the war changed him. Tempered his blood lust .Posted this idea on new rockstars two days ago
You nailed it! That's exactly what I've been thinking after seeing Quantumania and then rewatching Loki. I think HWR is the Kang from Quantumania...he just has a lot of character progression to go through between now and then.
unless its from a different universe....how wouldn't it be the same person? Do people not understand time travel :P
Kang's story is always a loop. He who remains needs to create the younger version of himself, so he will have to start the multiversal war that he already won in his own past. Makes perfect sense and makes for a cool story too.
Majors is so good that we see two people...amazing acting
I think its more direct than you're letting on. I suggest the Kang from Quantum Mania gets sucked into the Void right there at the end, meets Aoilith and unifies the timeline (however this event will take place at the end of phase -- its just backwards and out of time). I think the Kang we saw has already conquered all the Kangs. Hes angry and confused but when we peaked into what he has done, it was shown that he has ALREADY destroyed countless universes and countless avengers.
One thing. At the very beginning of the final episode of Loki season 1 the camera zooms out from earth into space showing the galaxies and eventually our universe. Then 2 side by side universes. Exiting the "LEFT" universe the camera moves to the right Overton of UNIVERSE 2 then zooms in to where Loki and Sylvie now are in Universe 2.
Well looks like they aren’t the same
I agree with you. He said he started and knows how it ends. Tva is in the quantum realm. And he didn't die but got push into the quantum drive.
HWR is actually harder and longer to pronounce than He who remains!
Great theory and video BTW :)
I agree and Alioth might be how Secret Wars begins!
How do you suspect Kang will get/got his name in the MCU? I believe in the comics it was essentially the sound of him working on his armor and it caught on. But I wonder if we will get input into why his name is Kang (and not just Nathaniel) since we see that other variant use their other names (Victor Timely, Tut, etc.)? It seems as it would be something significant since Majors puts such emotion into saying "I am Kang".
I will love it so much if Loki Season 1, the story that sort of acts as a prologue to the Multiverse Saga, ends up also being a great epilogue.
Janet Van Dyne was just being a Karen when she trapped Kang. The timelines she saw being destroyed were those branches caused by his out of control variants. He was doing the right thing and her mind was too small to see the big picture.
hell no he wasnt doing the right thing lmao. do u even know who kang the conqueror is? he was just trying to convince her he wasnt bad because hes a master manipulator. so many casuals out there and its a no wonder why yall have the dumbest theories
love the videos KEEP IT GOING!
Regardless of what you think about Quantumania, Johnathan Majors was a great casting choice for Kang
I think you are unnecessarily making head cannon for the scar and ignoring the real-world reason they gave him a scar. They wanted it clear that Conqueror Kang is not the same as He Who Remains.
Maybe once in his cycle, He Who Remains got there on a similar route as Conqueror Kang but they are still, in fact, different variants. In matter of fact I do not even think when He Who Remains says see you soon, he meant him exactly but just one of his variants. I think the only thing he is sure of is that one of him will win.
It would be a pretty crazy twist if we go through several movies fighting Kang, the Multiversal War starting, etc.
Then we get a post-credit scene at the end of Secret Wars showing Kang discovering Alioth for the first time and creating Miss Minutes. Would kind of tie everything in neatly.
I’d hope that happens. I’ve theorized that. I do think Dr. Doom will tie in at end of Secret Wars. Doom did beat Kang in comics.
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damn, i missed the quantummania spoiler warning. 😞
i do also believe that when Rama Tut was teasing Scarlet Centurion that he’s disappointed that he wasnt the one who killed him… i really think theyre referring He Who Remains and not Kang the one Scott killed, bcoz after Rama tut teases Centurion, Immortus showed them that the timelines where branching already meaning that HWR was already killed, by Sylvie ( Loki ) 💁🏻♀️💯
Come on Ryan, I commented this theory in your quantumania breakdown video saying how no one realizes Kang and HWR are the same. You could have credited me 😭
What if Kang falling into the storm is actually what creates his variants
HWR has more syllables than He Who Remains, it would be easier to just say He Who Remains
KANG NEEDS HIS OWN MOVIE. THAT ONE COMIC WHERE HIS LIFE IS IN A LOOP IS CRAZY!!
Explanation is greatly put together. Not sure if you've done probability theory or anything, but you seem to really grasp what's being discussed here
Saying "He who remains" and "H.W.R." are the same syllables, only saying H.W.R. is annoying 😎
OMG...The Multiverse Saga being just a time loop.....Perfect!!!!!
A popular theory is that He who remains is victor timely who is just a variant of kang. the end credit scene of ant man shows Loki, and he says “it’s him”, now it’s thought he’s saying this is the variant that becomes he who remains. The idea is Loki wants to restore this variant to power, and he’ll probably get killed in the series.
i agree with this. and even ant man and kassie highlighted that sometimes you have to do things differently, his original plan failed and finding alioth is his new plan
Your the first one to reference the EPR paradox as a proper tool to be used in the future bravo 👏 👏 👏
Whatever loki season 2 is gonna be ,it's gonna be wild.
You convinced me bro, solid work as always
RYAN: THE MULTIVERSE IS AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF SIMILAR DIMENSIONS WITH VARYING DEGREES OF DIFFERENCES.
ALSO RYAN: HOW CAN TWO KANGS POSSIBLY HAVE THE SAME PLAN?
ALSO ALSO RYAN: OK, IT'S REALLY TECHNICALLY TWO DIFFERENT KANGS.
Very interested to see where Loki comes in all of this.
The first OG variant that was a scientist became Kang! If we go by what he who remains, showed us through the temp pad, and what Janet said about him being a scientist when she tapped into his mind
First time I watched the Loki finale, I instantly thought of the sequence with HWR as the actual Kang saga ending. If there’s a sacred timeline, our MCU, then he requires the heroes in that timeline to defeat all other variant universes, their “heroes” and own Kangs. Plus the broken statues I thought of other Kang variants.
I always thought the same thing for the exact same reasons. I felt even stronger when I noticed that Alioth’s eyes are the exact same color as the multiversal core that Kang got sucked into. That Kang said he’s the only one who can stop it & if that’s true that also makes them the same & like you said when it look like he was reminiscing on the things he’s done I think he came up with the Tva instead of him still doing it himself. It seems a little more understandable when they do it then when he does it as Kang finally once he take out all his variants he will then become “He Who Remains”
Mate! Your vids are top quality👌🏾👌🏾
FINALLY a video that explains the theory I thought to be true after watching Quantomania! I think you got it perfect
They need to put you on the writing team at Marvel. Your storylines and breakdowns are more epic than the actual movies.
I still don’t get how shrinking so small seems to bring people to the same area. You’d actually become like light years away. If you and a friend shrunk at the same time but opposite side of the room. It would take light years to travel to each other
I find it silly that they were all hella hyped when being summoned to the coliseum. It was like thousands of Kang all going: “WOOOO!” “YEAHHH!”
Thank you! This was my first thought leaving the theater!!
Ended up here after watching Loki Season 2, Episode 3 wondering if that was Victor Timely in Ant Man. Thank you @ScreenCrush for making these informative videos. A lot less head scratching after watching this and your most recent Loki videos.
There were 2 Mobius's throughout the show. That's why when he sits down at Renslayer's coffee table he notices his condensation ring from his drink is already there. Mobius is aware of the 2 realities. I'm not saying you are wrong, it could further support your theory, the last 2 timelines. One is the original home of He Who Remains and the other is the last fallen Kang variant. He Who Remains created the Time Keepers to hide himself in "the sacred timeline" and the 2nd reality is the home of himself Kang the Conqueror. He uses HIS little remote control to send Loki to HIS TVA where HIS statues are. He places it neatly on the desk KNOWING Sylvie is going to snatch it.
You're assuming that the MCU multiverse us tied to different branch timeline, when in fact that is never for sure stated. Allow me to explain: At the end of Loki season HWR explains to Loki and Silvy that a variant of himself came to him as a scientist the same thing that Kang (The Conqueror) said to Janet in the Quantum Realm. And it was this variant of HWR that discovered there were universes stacked on top of each other---Not timelines---not branch timelines, but universe all existing in the same flow of time stacked one on top of the other. It was then that this variant began to meet his other variants and through these meeting of each other they began to mess with the proper flow of time therefore creating a infinite amount of branch variants that all were hell bent on destroying the other. How do we substantiate this is actually happening. Well, at the end of Ant Man Quantumaniam 3 specific variants of Kang are in a secluded room as if they had been in this place before, and they were very well acquainted with one another, my personal opinion is that Immortis, the Pharaoh, the Cyborg, and HWR are the first four variants of Kang Prime (The Conqueror-Nathaniel Richards of the 31st Century) initially got in contact with, in which these are the Kangs that existed in the different universes that were stacked existing in the same flow of time. Which is why they weren't and could not be pruned out of existence by HWR because they all exist in the sacred Timeline. Which is also why Victor Timely is able to exist, given that you can have multiple variants of the same person existing in different timelines and in different universe (in the same timeline), I.E., Steve Rogers in End Game, Doctor Strange Multi-verse of Madness, the three Peters (Spiderman) No Way Home, ETC. This is all the same sacred timeline but happening in different universes. The Branch timlines are the issue here which is why HWR created the TVA. The High Council of Kangs (Immortis, Ramatut, Cyborg, and HWR) got together and realized that the most evil of them is Kang Prime and locked him away in the Quantum Realm out of the reaches of time to keep him from making more branch timelines. I also believe that Kang Prime interacting and having encounters with Ramatut, Immortis, HWR, and the Cyborg created other branch timelines and theses branches were eventually pruned by HWR but the Kangs escaped to a place that do not follow the conventional laws of time like the TVA... given HWR the impression that he had won... When in fact they were just biding their time! All conjecture though, so we'll see!
there’s is not only one universe in He Who Remains’ sacred timeline. There is still a massive multiverse it’s just one that is tightly controlled and doesn’t result in any threat to the existence of the multiverse or threaten He Who Remains himself
This biggest hole is the scars. How do they just disappear. It also seems weird than he would just abandon his technology, even though the board in his citadel showed that he still showed interest in science.
He told that in the vid, HWR could have just optimized his tech or did some sci-fi skinning all good 😂
Don’t dig holes just because there aren’t none
That statue also has the scars of Kang chiseled on it. The Kang Variants using pruning sticks. All those resources are Quantum energy related too. Because when someone gets pruned they basically teleport to Alioth. But why there specifically
Excellent theory and would make a great story. Lines up very well with Loki and Quantumania
It’s crazy. I was legit talking about this lastnight with a co-worker that Kang is actually He Who Remains. My theory is that since they continuously show time as a circle, he who remains knew that at some point someone was gonna make it to his palace and kill him because like it’s stated in one of the movies: Time isn’t linear. This hints at everything going on in the MCU has happened already and will happen again once Kang is “killed” by Loki. An endless cycle that could only be broken if Loki and Sylvie took up He Who Remains offer to run the TVA (if I remember that correctly)
HWR may be a quick way to type He Who Remains, but it’s not a shorter way to speak it. It is more syllables as “He Who Remains”.
That sounded awesome. I want it all to go down just like that. Loki in charge of it all will be great.
HWR looks like a mirror opposite of kang from quatumania
May be they were together with renslayer as general and HWR just backstabbed kang into exile abd took his seat at TVA after kang conquered nd build everything
Thats why he looks so disconnected with renslayer and also while ordering memories wipe protocol
I literally was saying exactly this to my friends as we were leaving the theatre LOL
The dimension he went into after ANTMAN throws him into the engine, is probably going to be the pocket dimension that Alieth is in, and he will end up taming him and killing the other kangs, and now knowing what it takes to get put INTO that dimension, he can create the sticks that the TVA use, to portal people there, because he now knows it’s smaller than the quantum realm
I've been saying this exact thing since the movie released. He's definitely hwr. Not a variant, not a repeat version, he's exactly him. And we just saw part of he who remains origin story. Time works differently when you exist outside of time.
7:02 I believe He Who Remains used the ten rings to stay young. It would make sense since they allowed Shang Chi’s dad to rule for 1000 years.
@13:45 I just noticed, the miniature on Kang's desk when he's telling Loki about "the first variant" has glasses and a lantern that is very remniscient of his appearance as Victor Timely.
Take another look at the "rusting" effect that dissolves and deflects Scott's first pym-disc as it gets close to the energy core. Reminds me of what Alioth does when he eats inorganic matter in the void. Classic Loki's helmet is one example.
Thank you Ryan for actually doing all your videos, getting tired of these other channels pulling these random ass people out to do breakdowns
The Alioth full circle at the end was well done.
Your explanation makes the most SENSE I can rest easy now 😅 and wait for Loki season 2
I posted this whole theory on your last plotholes explained video BUT you missed the most important part... the whole point of quantumania is for kang to be sucked into the engine core, that is where he meets Alioth. He needed to lose to antman, he needed those Pym particles to send him to the realm of Alioth so he could get the weapon he needs to win the war. To end the war
Everyone NEEDS to watch this video!
Glad you read my comment & made a video on it. Im sure i wasnt alone in opinion
My biggest question is this. Why do we assume the kang that "died" in AMATW was who d Kang variants was talking about. Might just have been the one from Loki that they were talking about.
I literally need a semester or two to put all this together 😃
I agree. Kang from quantum mania is the same as HWR. I dont think its a variant following the same steps though. I think he is exactly him down to the atoms, which is possible due to time in general annd traveling through it. HWR was that kangs ending, that kang was/is just in an earlier stage of himself when encountered in quantum mania. But I dont know if hes still around now because the quantum universe seems to be somehow outside of normal time entirely. So perhaps that kang is now gone and removed entirely from the multiverse, a break in the loop perhaps?
Guy played Kant really well.
@screencrush your strongest argument here is that he who remains resides in a place where time and space have no effect. Remember the infinity stones in the drawer. So, if he who remains is in the quantumn realm, there's no other Kang that it can be. I'm thinking the Kang dynasty post credit scene is a super flash forward for after he who remains dies. However what doesn't make sense here is when quantumnmania takes place in the timeline vs. The loki series. If he who remains is in the quantumn realm, then loki killed he who remains before quantumnmania. Therefore they can't be the same person.
Okay one excellent explanation I wouldn't even consider this a theory. So much factual points made.
I love this theory, this is more or less exactly what I thought was going on when he "died" in the movie, nothing ever seems to die when its shrank further (AEB Darren Cross) so ending up at the end of time and finding a cloud dragon seems (relatively) plausible
Because he was trying to prevent a multiverse incursion by keeping the timeline from branching out. This also helped prevent the Kang from Ant-man quantumania from destroying his timeline. He was concerned about destroying the sacred timeline because it's the Avengers from his timeline that will end the multiverse war in which he and his other variants are responsible for. Though, from what they are showing is that Dr. Strange, Spider-man, and Loki might be the problem.
I love your explanations!