My 9th grade Geography teacher was a tail gunner in a B17 in 1944. All we had to do to get out of taking a lecture, quiz, or test, was ask a question about the B17 and then sit back and take a nap while he went off for the rest of the class. Being immature young teens, we never realized how hard it was for him to talk about it and he often got emotional. Being a Veteran myself now, I regret how we treated him.🤔😕🇺🇸
My junior year high school English teacher was an American WWII POW. Apparently, he had a rough time being a guest of Adolph Hitler. We as immature idiots, often times would get him to speak about his prison camp days just to avoid class work. He was an amazing dude, like many of his generation. Wish I would have paid attention to his stories. Rest in Peace, Mr. B.
I had a High School science teacher who was a Seabee in the Pacific. He was old-school, so we still had to do the work, but he'd tell some wild stories. Great guy. Glenn Arter, USN.
One of my high school teacher's was a tunnel rat in Vietnam and he never talked about it but to say that it was his job. Lots of respect for him and anyone who served in anyway and anytime!
My dad was a tail gunner and his plane was shot down on Black Thursday when they bombed the Schweinfurt ball bearings factory. He was taken prisoner and served two years in the infamous Stalag 17 prison of war camp. He didn't talk about it often but when he did the stories were fascinating as well as scary. I still have a book he gave me that he smuggled into the camp and managed to hold on to the entire time until he was liberated. It has drawings, quotes, and other notes and musings from many prisoners in the camp. I treasure this book dearly and will pass it on to my son.
@@imokyousuck there is a book Kriege Memories , one of the prisoners created while in 17b . He negotiated for a camera & film with/the German guards to keep a ledger and drawings, etc. My cousin had a copy and loaned it to someone. I am gonna get on Amazon and get one . He told one story about the mean guards that would sic the dogs on men in their barracks and get a big laugh at the men scrambling to get away . These barracks were segregated by nationality. The guards did this to the Russians. A couple of minutes later, the only thing that came out of the barracks were the dog collars.
My mother worked on B-17s at the Seattle Boeing plant. She said the ladies autographed the inside of the wings, so every time in my Air Force career, when I saw one on static display,I wondered if the plane on display was one of “her’s”. And she had a picture of the B-17 on the wall in her house for the rest of her life.
You mother and millions others were the secret weapons of WW2. The war was won by the time the atomic bomb was created. Rosie the riveter won WWII. Just imaging Albert Speer used slave labor to build his war machine. Slave labor can do nasty things to V2 components. Perhaps your mother helped build my Uncles plane that came from Seattle. You can view his story on TH-cam. Just search “3 Days In May 1943”. Look for image of a B17 with American flag background. Thanks for you story about you mother. God bless her.
My uncle was too young to serve in the Armed Forces, so he dropped out of high school and worked at the same Boeing plant making Fortresses. I can't look at one without wondering if he helped build it.
My father was a tail gunner on a B-17. He was good at it and was lucky enough to come home alive from it after flying more missions than they were suppose to. He earned a bronze v star for all his efforts.
My dad was a tail gunner on a B-17 as well. When I was young, I asked him once "dad, did you kill anybody in the war?" to which he answered "I hope not". Although he never told us if he had any kills, I have his journals from the war, but I've read them and all I remember is in one of them, he wrote "we took a lot of flak today" and also of losing one of his buddies. My dad was also lucky to come home alive.
My dad was also a tail gunner on a B-17, 13th US Army Air Force in 1945 just as WWII was ending. He was also small enough to be a backup ball turret gunner - a much hated gunner position.
@@joeyager8479 Respect to your dad, my dad was also a tail gunner (above entry). Yep the ball turret was not an enviable spot, those men were beyond brave.
My father was the left waist gunner in a B17 G in the 99th Bob Group stationed in Foggia, Italy. On his last mission - bombing munitions factories in Germany - the 17 was shot up quite badly, and they lost an engine. During the return flight, they lost two more engines, during which time the pilot realized they wouldn't make it back to Foggia. He then headed towards the part of Yugoslavia that is now Croatia, hoping for a safe landing, and the opportunity to fall in with Marshal Tito's partisans there. They actually made a wheels-up landing in a field between two steep hills with that single engine still running, and no crew injuries. After destroying the super-secret Norden bomb sight, he crew broke up into three groups, but only one group made it out to Sweden and then, England. My dad and the others were eventually captured and force-marched to Luft Stalag 17ß, all the way back in Krems, Austria, where they spent the duration of the war. The 17 was stripped of its aluminum skin by locals for patching their roofs. A nice you man from one of the local villages, tracked down my dad a couple of decades ago, and in his letter included a couple of photos of the 17 and about 20 villagers. The B17 G had flown for in excess of 200 nautical miles, full of holes, on a single engine, and landed 10 men safely in some god-forsake field! Kudos, Boeing. Kudos!
Old Rogue, your Dad was one of the American badasses in the European theater. Thank God for men like him. People in France, Belgium, Italy, Romania, Hungary -- and yes, even Germany -- should write thank you notes to you and your family every year to thank you for your Dad's service.
We'll be able to thank people like your father personally when we're able to thank our Savior personally. As best I can I thank Him now and thank you for telling this incredible story.
My dad was in the 15th stationed in Foggia too. He was ground crew fireman for crash rescue. Too often there was nobody left to save. That haunted him. I am glad your dad made it.
My late stepfather was a waist gunner on B-17s (from their first runs). At first, the waist guns did NOT have any kind of arrestor, to avoid the gunners from shooting their own planes. After his second or third sortie, the service crew for his plane realized that the back end of the B-17 was LOADED with unusual bullet holes, something like 100. My stepfather complained the "the damn Germans were just unbelievable" that day. According to my stepfather, his service crew man replied "ya silly bastard, that was YOU that shot up this plane". According to my stepfather, they showed him that all of the holes mushroomed OUT in the aluminum. Supposedly, arrestor suddenly arrived at bases, to be installed on the waist gunners, within a week. Apparently, my stepfather was NOT the only one to do this. My stepdad has been gone for 8 years now, and I never thought to verify this story with professionals, but I can say this. That story was repeated repeatedly (decades ago), with his remaining flying crew by many of the members of his flight crew, at the get-togethers of his WWII reunions. My stepdad did 39 missions. Never a scratch. Not many crewmembers could say that...
My Dad was a radio operator and waist gunner on a B17 in the 91st bomb group based in England. He flew 28 missions, got Air medal with Oak Leaf Clusters and I have his paperwork for his Distinguished Flying Cross. His bomb group had a rough road to hoe, lost 85%
Lost 85% of their original al crews and 100% of the replacements. He refused to ever speak about it. I rec'd his paperwork with some photos whe. He passed. God Bless him forever.
This was my Dad He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
My dad was a radio operator and 50 cal machine gunner on the B17 35 missions over Germany he was a member of the Lucky Bastards Club i tried to take him up for a ride when the Wings Of Freedom were here he wouldn't go i have his complete diary of all his missions they were the Great Generation RIP Dad Thank You For your service
Hey Gary - great stuff and yes to your father and all service men and women … Thank you for your service 🇺🇸🇺🇸.. my father was also in the US Army Air Corp as a B17 Navigator… unfortunately he died at 57 yrs old when I was a young 18 knowitall kid- and I miss him everyday of my life. I really didn’t get to know him and of his war experiences. But I have all his flight records/ missions and info from my oldest brother.who is a V Nam vet and talked a lot with my dad. What we would give for 1 more day with our dads -right ? Takecare 👍🇺🇸
Be thankful for what they gave for all of us. My father in law was a tail gunner who flew more than 56 mission until being shot down over France. He said he could not go home until all his buddies were safe and accounted. True hero for a Country Boy Who Made Good.
@@Br5494ever Yes we all miss our dads so much, all the more when you get older and wiser. My dad ( I am English ) was in the desert war with the British 8th army and told us all many war stories. Like yourself, I really miss my mum and dad and wish I could talk to them again now that I am older and realise far more about life than I did when they were alive.
Interesting coincidence. My father was radio operator/waist gunner on a B17 called Jezebel. While flying over New York City during the World series he was playing the World series over the radio for the crew. His pilot, a LT Wheeler, pulled out of formation and buzzed Yankee Stadium stopping the game. Mayor Laguardia (sp) was livid and wanted their butts however as it turned out to be a top notch publicity stunt highly increasing the sale of war bonds they were let off with just a reprimand as dad told it and the old news clippings he had confirmed.They went on to England and flew 26 missions over Germany.
In 2000, I flew in a B17. It was the nine-o-nine. We went up to 5k feet for 20 minutes. Amazing. The noise from 4 big engines was deafening. The skin of the plane was as thick as a cereal box. A bullet would have no problem going right through. Those men were incredibly brave. Thank you for your dedication.
I did too with shorts on and in a B-29.Boy was it TINY and a 29 large as in No Thanks you'll never get out in a Heated suit w Flak jacket.Brave Men at 19..
In 2008 I was lucky to video and tour 9-0-9, in Manchester, NH. I also videoed it warming up engines (quite the wind blast) then taking off. Returning from work the evening before I saw its unmistakable B17 shape flying toward me low over the trees along the road I lived on. (On one of its passenger flights). Then 909 turned to fly over the cornfield by my house.
yeah, noticed that too when I got a chance to walk around inside the Memphis Belle...[the movie Belle]...when it was being worked-on at the local airport...since they had gained a bit of a rep repairing and restoring one that had crashed there at an air show a bit earlier and had often done it with improvised parts...you could actually push the skin in and out with your fingers...not much protection against a 20mm....
My old boss and mentor from Jr. & High School was Major Carl Clark, who flew the 909 after first being restored. He was a B-17 pilot flying out of Bassingborne, England during WWII. He flew in a couple of Bomb Groups and was a Pathfinder in his last group. Check out Carl Clark and The Amazing Landing. I worked for him for years and never knew he was a Pilot as he never talked about it. Once he began flying the 909 he was open to discussing his missions. RIP Carl Clark, you were an institution to youth of Idabel, Oklahoma at the Rocket Roller Rink.
My father was a B-17 pilot in WW II. During a mission over France, his plane was hit and both engines on the right wing were lost. My father was the only member of the flight crew that was not injured. He single handedly brought the plane and crew back to England safely. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. My father was a true hero. You mentioned that once a B-17 was able to return with just 2 engines. I wonder if you were referring to my father's plane.
my Dad .....He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
A lot of B-17s made it back on 2 engines... ...but rarely when those engines are on the same side. So yeah, that was quite a feat of flying your father pulled off.
God bless him!!! Something similar happened to "Rosie's Riveters"...both port side engines out. They somehow made it to The Channel, when they spotted a fighter ahead. Fearing the worst, the crew braced for an attack...the fighter came in gradually, very carefully....it was a P-47 Thunderbolt sent to shepherd the cripples home! Now accompanied by this little friend, the crew was able to throw out their .50s, and lighten up....Robert Rosenthal brought them home!!!
Several years ago, I read the war memoirs of Saburo Sakai, Japanese WW2 Zero pilot ace. Like the German pilots in your video, Sakai was amazed at how much damage the B-17 could take before it was shot-down and that they often had to break contact because their Zeros ran out of ammunition. He was amazed at the discipline of the B-17 pilots to maintain a tight formation when under attack. He wrote that the earlier versions of the B-17 didn’t have a rear tail gunner so that was a vulnerable spot that he successfully exploited when attacking. When the rear tail gunner was installed, the B-17 became a plane that he dreaded attacking. There was no weak spot.
B17's flew in combat box formation. Any German Luftwaffe fighter plane flew on that space was going to be hit by 50 caliber bullets one way or another!
Gus, my father in law, flew 35 missions as a ball turret gunner on "Patent Pending", 5 more missions than the required 30 to end your tour and get shipped back to the US. One of his last missions was on February 15th 1945 over Dresden Germany a mission that arguably broke the back of the German invasion. He kept a private log/scrapbook of all his missions that my wife and I had bound and keep as a treasured memory .
I myself doubt that Dresden air attack. In reality German war machine had been effortless, because U.S. 8th Air Force had bombed German fuel refineries to bits. All those new Tiger tanks, Me 262 jet fighters, lorries, other aircraft were wholly useless without necessary fuel. It had been extraordinary success with all the B-17 units and men, and women who build these bombers. Thank for them and hats off, dudes!
The head on attack of the German fighters, according to my father, a B17 waist gunner, was often done with a barrel roll through the B17 formation. My father thought they were showing off until he spoke with a German pilot after the war. It turned out that the fighters had little to no armor on the sides, but did have some protection underneath, so they rolled with the belly of their plane toward the B17 as they passed by them.
Yep its completely true the Fw190s had a 8-10mm armored plate on the belly to protect the fuel tank and pilot as well as the engine and its cowling. almost all planes had a bullet proof glass plate in the front of the cockpit and an armored seat/headrest and later models of the BF190 had armor around the fuel tank but not from the bottom
@@mikew.8894 Wasnt he in charge of the ME 262's? If I remember right, he wanted to use the ME 262 to shoot down the B17, but his nuttty boss wanted to use them as offense bombers.
The first B-17 I ever say was on a south to north approach to the old Denver airport in the 1980's. We heard her LONG before we saw her, doing a few fly-over circles of the old Lowery AFB, then she made the final turn at the beacon and flew right over our house at about 300 feet. I worked on C-130A's when I served in the Navy, but this old bird still fills me with pride and awe. I'm told my uncle was a radioman on one the last 6 months of the war but he never discussed his experiences with any non-veterans.
Thanks for making this video! My dad was a B-17 belly gunner. If you saw him you would know why, he was about 5’5”. Little guy gets screwed. He passed away before I was 10 yrs. old, so I only heard a few of his stories. I remember my mom, brother and I took a plane to a small vacation spot up north in California when I was around 7. My dad drove up and met us there the next day. So I asked him why he didn’t fly with us when we came north. That’s when he told me what he experienced in WW II as a belly gunner. Two stories were about being stuck in the ball turret due to damage. The ball turret has to be orientated properly to enter and exist the turret. Damage caused to the turret ring prevented him from moving the turret, the crew couldn’t use the hand crank to move the turret, only after frantic attempts with hammers and crow bars could they get him out. A similar situation happened on another mission, this time the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged. They were going to have to belly land the plane with him still stuck in the ball turret. With less than five minutes before they had to land they were able to get him out of the turret. He said those planes were held together with bailing wire and duct tape. If the plane could get off the ground it was considered operational. He retired from the Air Force in 1967 and since WW II he never flew again. Again, thanks for this video.
Re: "the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged" I read an account by a WWII AAF mechanic that everything on the B17 was electric and on the B24 it was hydraulic.
@@johnclawed If your asking me what a 7 yr. old remembers now at the age of 62, you are not going to get exact quotes. Nor have I ever been in a B-17, read it’s schematics, nor have any specialized knowledge of its construction, modifications or operational details.
@@notebene9791 I'm sorry it sounded like that. I didn't mean to shoot you down, as it were. 30 years ago I used a bulletin board where some great first hand accounts were posted. There was a merchant mariner who posted a 10-page memoir of the Murmansk run, and there was the mechanic I quoted. I wish I'd saved those posts and others, so I just wanted to preserve that bit of trivia here, since this is all about the B17, and I thought you might find it interesting too.
I was lucky enough to get in on one of the last backstage tours of the US Airforce Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB. The craftsman were rebuilding a B-17. They were working on the belly gun pod. How anyone could do that job and not go insane was beyond me.
Another Great video TJ. I actually learned something I did not know about the Beautiful B-17. Most of The pilots who flew them in combat said that they would never fly anything else because the B-17 could bring you home when all others couldn't. They had to be very brave men to climb into a plane and fight miles above the earth. Knowing that group of thin cables that ran just above their head along both sides of the ceiling of the fuselage worked the aircraft's control surfaces like the Ailerons, Rudder, Elevators and all the other goodies you needed to fly. On the B-17 "All AMERICAN" those cables were pretty much the only thing holding her together to bring her home. The B-17 is simply an Amazingly tough Aluminum Aircraft flown by men of Steel. Keep Em coming TJ. TJ3 videos are my favorite part of Fridays.
My father (John) enlisted in the Army Air Corps (1942), age 17, and served as a gunner and radio operator on B-17s. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force in England and flew 35 combat missions over Europe. Including one shown as "SECRET" on his papers. The records were lost during a fire at Fort Benjamin Harrison. His brother (George) was a Navy aviator flying in the Pacific area: his plane was shot down . The bad news was wired to the family, who were surprised three months later when he walked in the front door in his Navy uniform. He went on to be a civilian businessman. My father had left the service at the end of the war and worked as a TV/Radio engineer. He was called back to duty for the Korean conflict but didn’t have to deploy; and stayed with the new US Air Force. He retired after 26 years of active duty including support in the Vietnam War. My mother and her sisters worked at a ball-bearing factory during WWII. My father, uncle and mother are all buried at Arlington National Cematary. Thank you for the reminder. Regards
Here's another one you probably didn't know. They stopped painting B17's to save weight and time in production. Even though it weighs more a painted B17 will fly faster (~10 kts) and farther (~90 miles) than an unpainted B17 with the same fuel load.
I didn't know that! It makes some sense though, as the paint would at least partially fill the dimples caused by riveting, thus reducing the drag. Do you have a citation, by any chance?
We had with Spitfires they was designed built using flush rivets but apart from cost took longer to build than using normal rivets so after trials as fully non flush caused all sorts of issues with not only speed but manoeuvrability also due to drag . But in the end worked out a compromise! Low pressure areas used normal and high pressure Flush rivets without a too big an effect on performance was also done with other planes also.
@@oldrogue4247 very recently there was a video made about The matter that cited actual USAAF test results, iirc. I believe you can find The video on TH-cam And see The citations The video uploader used
My dad flew the B17 in WWll. 32 missions over Germany. Came back over the English Channel on fire 3 times. Lost crew members. After the war he never stepped in a plane again.
I had an uncle who was in the Army Air Corps. he was a SSgt and line chief stationed at a B-17 base in England. The stories he told me about how shot up the B-17's were but yet got their crews back home is something I'll never forget.
You won’t find stories like that about the B-24. They couldn’t take a whole lot of damage like that and stay in the air. It didn’t take much to knock one out of the air.
I had the honor of flying in the Collin’s Foundation B-17 909 about fifteen years ago out of Baton Rouge. About a thirty minute flight over False River. I had a smile on my face for several days after that. Unfortunately, the 909 was lost in a crash a few years ago. 😢
I left a reply to plee587 about the 909 and my experience at the Eighth Air force Re-union in Pittsburgh during the mid 90's . It's a hellava good story , even if I do say so myself .
The 'head on' method of attacking an enemy bomber was devised in the early years of WW2 by the legendary Eric 'Winkle' Brown of the Fleet Air Arm, when he flew carrier missions protecting Atlantic convoys. He discovered that the best way to attack the heavily armed Condor long range bombers was from directly in front to target the pilots.
For those that have never seen a B-17 in person or been inside of one, they are surprisingly small. The only plane that surprised me for being even smaller than I thought was the PBY Catalina.
We have one here in AZ at the Commemorative Air Force Museum. You can’t always go in it but I have and agree, very small inside. The B-17 has been my favorite aircraft of all time since I first saw one in a picture when I was about 7 years old.
@@aaronpearson2389 They are beautiful. I am not a great piston engine aircraft fan, but the B-17 is one of my favorites of the type. I had the pleasure of touring the one that was involved in the mid air collision last month. I saw it in May. It made me very sad for the loss of both the aircraft and the crew.
i had the opportunity to go up in the Collins Foundation's B17, the 909 (R.I.P.) It was the smallest aircraft i'd ever flown in and the smoothest flight i ever experienced.
@@mikew.8894 Yeah we think of bombers as being big, spacious fuselage and some are but this was much smaller than I could have imagined. On the other side of that, I remember seeing the B-36 at the Air Force Museum and remember being totally shocked at how large it was. If it were not for the bulkheads, you could get the whole B17 fuselage inside with room to spare.
@@aaronpearson2389 During the week of Thanksgiving last fall, 2023, I was visiting family in Phoenix and we went to the Commemorative Air Force Museum and we had a great time. I walked through the B-17 and it is very small inside. I plan on visiting again this coming Thanksgiving when I go back to Phoenix.
Idabel, Oklahoma remembers one of its greatest heros, Captain Carl Clark, B-17 Pathfinder Pilot. Later in his life he was reunited with the B-17 and flew the 909 for the Collins Foundation. Carl owned a Skating Rink in Idabel and was a friend to every child he ever met. I was fortunate to have worked for him for several years and to remain friends until his passing. Check out: Carl Clark and the Amazing Landing.
As to the crash of the first test aircraft in the Army competition; the crew took off with the central control lock engaged. Unable to maneuver the aircraft it flew into a hill that was almost straight ahead. Up to that point in aviation, a "checklist" was rather rare as most of the procedures were left up to the pilot in the left seat and his memory. Co-pilot's were just there to follow his orders. Several newspapers in that day trumpeted with the usual early aviation hysteria that the '17 was so complicated that one man couldn't remember everything. Not true, simply follow the list-"ask and answer".
it wasnt a central lock, it was a control surface lock for the rudder and elevators. consequently the aircraft climbed too steeply, stalled and crashed on the airfield.
@@thurin84 central lock, control lock, pad lock, I think we got the idea and he was pretty much accurate in passing on the gist of what happened. But thanks for really nailing it down.
@@larrycooper9487 it makes a difference. having the control surfaces locked caused a specific type of crash. ie stall. its didnt fly into a mountain. it didnt have mechanical issues. but hey, who needs facts. amiright?
During WWII my grandmother was part of the crew that installed the instrument panels for the piolets. my Grand father was in Europe fighting. I did not know my Grandma helped build them until after her death. Lose Lips Sink Ships! I wish I had known, I would have loved to talk to her about it.
My father was one of the ground crew that operated the radio for the radio controlled experiments. I've got photos of him with an early transponder, eyes to the sky, and guiding an airplane. He didn't tell us the details, but I know he was fairly high up in the engineering department. Thanks for this vid, I'm always interested in warbirds!
In 1986 I met a pilot who was co pilot, in a B17. He said on his tenth Mission they were attacked over Germany, and shot up so bad they had to crash land on an Island that was half in the hands of the Germans and half in a nation that was not in the war. after the crash they split up into two groups, and half went one way, the the other wound up in German hands, and went to a German prison. The man I was talking to went with the group that got caught, and spent 18 months in Stalag 17. The crew who went the other way, were later all killed in another mission.
The quality and reliability of this plane is one of reasons I exsist today. Gramps was MSgt, Flight Engineer 8th/12th/15th AAF, 301stBG, 419thSq. 1942-1945
TJ3 History, I hope you save each and every one of these stories. They are precious and starting to fade from memory. They need to be preserved for future generations.
In 1941, the Brits ordered some B-17's - they were the "D" model. Some of the guns were downgraded to .303. There were also no guns in the tail, and no powered turrets. One .303 in the nose, one .303 in the radio room blister, one .303 in a bathtub, and a .50 in each waist blister. One of the complaints that the Brits had about these aircraft, is that for some unknown reason the bomb bay doors would regularly fail to open at high altitude causing a mission abort. But as the crew came back to england and reduce to a lower altitude, the bomb bay doors would work, so the bombs could be jettisoned to allow for a safe landing w/o armed high explosives on board. Boeing engineers figured out why the bay doors were not functioning correctly. At some point, after the aircraft reached cruising altitude, the crew would relieve themselves before entering the combat area.. they would do that into the bomb bay.. since the b-17 bay doors overlapped slightly, the urine could not drain out before freezing the doors shut..when returning to england, as they reduced altitude, the urine would thaw.. thus the doors worked again to jettison the bomb load..
@@ssnerd583.The successes of Bomber Command were purchased at terrible cost. Of every 100 airmen who joined Bomber Command, 45 were killed, 6 were seriously wounded, 8 became Prisoners of War, and only 41 escaped unscathed (at least physically). Of the 120,000 who served, 55,573 were killed including over 10,000 Canadians. Of those who were flying at the beginning of the war, only ten percent survived. So, what are you trying to say?
Interesting detail. Heard about guns freezing, but not about the bomb bay doors. I think first batch to RAF were Cs (a pic I have does not seem to have the cowl flaps introduced by the D).
Thanks for this video. Even more so thanks to those in the comments with their personal experiences or stories of family members that were part of B-17 crews. I really enjoy reading them. I had the honor of a lifetime of flying on a B-17 with my wife’s grandfather, who was shot down and spent the last month of the war in Stalag 1. It is truly a privilege that some organizations are able to keep these things flying so people can experience even a little bit what I must’ve been like. It really hits home. Truly the greatest generation. I posted up the home video I took during the flight. I remember it like yesterday it was such an awesome experience.
A Luftwaffe ace once told me attacking a B-17 combat box was like standing in a bathtub & looking up at the shower-head, while trying to avoid getting wet.
FWIW, I have read a number of reports from Japanese Naval and Army pilots from WWII. Their most feared aircraft was NOT the P-51, the P-40, the P-38, or even the "Whistling Death, the F4-U Corsair, it was the B-17. Used mostly for long range reconnaissance missions, the Japanese pilots grew to fear the airplane that was almost impossible to bring down. When they got their hands on a captured B-17, they were amazed and impressed by the precision of the build, and the overall capabilities, which their own designers could not match.
@@harrylessenger4872 Harry, I do not dispute what you say, I was relating what I had read in TWO separate autobiographies of WWII Japanese pilots, one in the IJN, the other in the Japanese Army. I recall one of the books was called "The Emperor's Eagle", but I confess I do not remember the name of the other book- it has been a long time. The Japanese pilots had GREAT respect for the B-17!
@@Kpar512 I believe you Kirk, the point I was making is that you neglected to mention the most successful U.S. Navy fighter of WWll in the Pacific Theater, after naming the planes that you did. The Mariana Turkey Shoot is a prime example. p.s. My Father was a B-17 pilot flying out of Braintree, England and was wounded during a bombing run over Hamburg.
We will never forget the B-17 "Texas Raider" that was rammed by a P-63 Airacobra at a Dallas Airshow her tail was clipped completely from her main fuselage I will never forget the video footage of that event rest in peace to the 5 crewman of the B-17 and the pilot of the P-63 and to end on a happier note, happy Thanksgiving y'all
I flew on the Texas Raider at an air show in New Orleans in 2018. It was only a 20 minute hop but it was a fantastic experience. I was very saddened at her loss.
For a tale of tough B-17s read up on "Old 666" in the Pacific. A worn-out B-17E was converted to a self-defending long range recon plane and crew by a crew of misfits. Fifteen Zeroes couldn't shoot it down, although the aircrew was pretty well shot up.
The addition of the dual turret at the front was a perfect add on but came late when the Luftwaffe was on its last legs I believe. At one point the B-17s were almost unopposed. Can’t fight a war on two fronts. One will suffer. The addition of decent range fighters escorts helped immensely in taking out the Luftwaffe as well. Good video. Thx.
My Dad was a Bombardier on his plane Ms. MaNookie. On 11/5/43, Dad took shrapnel in his right thigh, and return to active flights on 11/14/43. On 2/21/44, his plane was hit hard (exact words were "Blew the plane up" and he helped the engineer to bale out and he followed. He hit the ground with his head which knocked him out. When he awoke, a farmer was holding a pitchfork on is chest and was given over to the Germans. Dad spent 13 months in prison camp (We think it was Stalag 2 along the Baltic Sea) and when the war ended, he came home to New Orleans. He married my mother in 1946 and three babies later (1948, 1949, and me in 1950). He passed in 2003. Dates came from his original flight log and I also have dad's Purple Heart and POW medal plus his leather flight jacket which kept him warm during the winter months. At an San Jose CA air show in the early 1990's, I bordered a surviving B-17 and can attest to the thin walls and cramped space.
My Dad’s group of 3 was also captured by a farmer with a pitchfork! They were all carrying Colt .45s, but they didn’t want to kill a civilian, so the surrendered to him.
I feel privileged to have been able to enter and walk around inside a B-17 a few years ago. I was astounded by how large the aircraft looked parked out on the tarmac, but how claustrophobic it was inside!
In 2012, I did a walk around a B-17 at a local airshow. It was the first time I had seen one in person. A beautiful bird. I have been inside a Lancaster and can imagine how claustrophobic in can be in a B-17. My uncle was a tail gunner in a Lancaster. He told me how difficult it was for tail gunners to get the rest of the crew. Crawling over the bomb bay housing was difficult with the plane on the ground. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been with the plane flying.
i always hated that the confederate air force knuckled under to the p.c. ers and changed their name. like anyone would actually think that the confederate states of america had an air force (besides the observation balloons) the omly part of a b-17 i thought was claustrophobic was the cockpit
Should go have a look inside a Lancaster! out of our three main bombers.Halifax.Stirling.Lancasters was worst one to have to bailout of with many crews perishing as not able to get out of door near rear.
25 years ago I had the privilege of climbing aboard a B-17. I was at the local airport just before takeoff. I JUST missed a B-24. I had my 8 year old daughter onboard. I told her imagine that it's 40 below zero and there are people shooting at you. The price of liberty.
Dad's first job as an Aeronautical Engineer was for Lockheed on P-38s. When Lockheed was contracted to build B-17s under contract to Boeing, dad moved over to that line. The plane with all the drawings and specifications was flown from Boing field to Burbank field, Lockheed studied the drawings and were instructed to disassemble the plane to make all of the dies and fixtures for building them. When they started producing bombers, that plane was piled outside one of the hangars. Late in about 1943, before dad got drafted into the Army, Lockheed reassembled the plane and using some of the remaining Allison engines bought by England for their run of P-38s, all normal rotation engines, they took four and grafted them to that B-17. The problem was Fire Suppression equipment was supplied by the military, and non-available for that aircraft. They test flew it over Murdock, (Edwards now) and a wing of new P-51 were training at probably George Airfield and loved chasing that particular B-17 as fun, the only problem they couldn't catch it. It outran them at low altitude. On its last flight a fire occurred, and the plane was abandoned, taking the silk ride down, losing the plane near Murdock. Lots of interesting planes left out there. The Army Air Force wasn't interested in having a B-17 that outran its cover, so nothing more was done on that idea.
A Captain Kurtz flew an early B-17 in the Pacific Theater transporting the brass from Australia to Hawaii and back. The crew named it Swoose since it flew gracefully like a swan while looking like a goose. Kurtz had the mechanics to "hot rod" the engines so the aircraft could fly faster so managed to set a non-stop speed record flying from Australia to Hawaii which didn't amuse the brass on board. After the war Kurtz had a family where they named a daughter Swoozie in honor of his B-17. She became an actress in several comedy films. She was the tour guide at the Alamo that told Pee Wee Herman that the Alamo didn't have a basement.
In 1989I was at an air show in Corvallis OR being put on by the CAF. (today it's known as the Commemorative Air Force. Back then it was the Confederate Air Force). Among the war birds flying in the show that day were several of the AT6 Texans (modified to look like Japanese aircraft) that were used in the used in the movies Tora! Tora! Tora! and the Final Countdown. There was also a B17, which turned out to be the very same B17 used in the one wheel landing you showed in the film clip. One of the pilots explained they had a switch installed in the cockpit that when switched could disable the right landing gear. Later in the show, the B17 took to the air did some flybys and then demonstrated the one wheel landing scene for the crowd. If you watch the landing sequence in the movie carefully, you can easily see the switch from the clear Hollywood camera work of the B17 touching one wheel, and rest of the sequence where the grainy 8mm footage of a battle damaged B17 makes a landing with only one wheel down and then spins out as the wing tip hit. That footage was shot in England during WWII and has been used in many documentaries and shows.
My uncle was a B17 polit and told me the 17's had a bad problem with props coming loose . This happened to his plane and had to turn around and return to England . Shortly after turning around they where jump by a flight of fighters . They where shot up so bad they didn't think they would make it back . They nursed her back and landed back in England . All the crew where wounded but my uncle , he managed to get it back , Our Baby , save the plane and the crew .
I went through a B17 a few years ago with a ball turret gunner...not only was it much smaller than I thought, each 50 cal had only 900 rounds of ammo. 50 cal ammo is heavy...the weight was needed for the bombs. As a former Navy P3 Aircrewman (Vietnam) , I was amazed at: not pressurized, not big, well below zero at 30K feet; electrified suits to keep warm, etc., etc. Those guys had cojones the size of melons~!
My Grandpa John W. Miser was a B17 Captain of "The Mighty 8th Airforce" during WW2. His B17 was named "FiFi" which he flew in the European theater for the entire duration of war. He forged his paperwork to join when he was only 15 and was the youngest Army Air-Core Captain during the war (unofficially because of forged documents). He used to tell the same story all the time about how his squadron won the war (obviously exaggerated). The story goes they had a mission to bomb an important nazi weapons factory but they stayed up all night drinking the night before, jumped into their planes on no sleep drunk as fuck, continued to drink heavily the entire flight which was common practice among bomber crews due to all the stress involved in bombing missions, the sky was overcast and so cloudy you could couldn't see more than 2 feet in front of the plane so they had to navigate on Instruments only, they dropped their payload with zero visibility and missed the weapons plant but hit a german beer factory causing the Germans to give up the next day, as beer is extremely important to Germans lmao. Funny thing is my grandpa's parents were German immigrants. After the war he went on to fly for and later work in upper management for American Airlines at Chicago O'Hare for 28 years. He also flew for JFK during his presidential campaign. Before he died in 2012 he was doing B17 honor flights to Washington DC for WW2 Army Air-Core Vets.
Mizzle420420: Did your Grandpa share with the Intelligence people that they had dropped their load on a bier (German/European beer) factory? The entire frickin' war could have been shortened by several months if our air forces destroyed all the beer factories. BTW, thanks for your submission of this story. There were SEVERAL LOL's in it...
Amazing planes. My father has been in charge of restoring one for the past 4-5 years(and helped with multiple others). These aircraft had advanced features for their time.
Whenever you have an iconic plane like the B-17, there are always a few planes that it beat out for the job. I would like to see some info on the runners up, and why they fell short of the b17.
I believe they based the A-10 "Warthog" Lightning II on the B-17. The A-10 was famously built around the Gau-8 30mm gatling cannon so it required an airframe capable of carrying a ton of weight (for the heavy Gau-8, plus hardpoint mounted missiles and bombs) while also having a high survival rate after taking large amounts of sustained fire. The B-17's track record for high durability and survivability after heavy fire was a perfect choice for a close air support, rotory cannon based attacker. They obviously changed a bunch of stuff but the basic airframe design is very reminiscent of the B-17.
The Republic A-10 "Warthog"'s official name is Thunderbolt II, not Lightning II. It is named for Republic's FAMOUS WW2 fighter, the P-47 Thunderbolt. The original Thunderbolt was built like a TANK. It had a HUGE P&W 2000-hp radial engine (the F4U Corsair carrier plane used a similar engine). Early versions were hamstrung by the "skinny" blade propeller but later versions with the 4-blade paddle propeller were formidable. The top US aces in the European Theater all flew P-47s. The Achilles heel of the P-47 was range, even with drop tanks. When Mustangs pretty much took over bomber escort it freed up the Thunderbolts to do close air support and they absolutely shined in this role---having 8 machineguns helped immensely. In close air support the P-47s could trade fuel weight for bomb and rocket weight, and could deliver a lot of ordnance. There was a lot of P-47 in a P-47---it weighed about 2,800 lbs MORE than a Mustang, and all that beef, plus the aircooled engine being more indifferent to small arms fire than say a liquid cooled engine, made it a tough cookie.
The crash of the Model 299 prototype was the event that basically invented the checklist. They took off with their control locks still installed on the rudder and elevators.
Unfortunately I have never had the pleasure of experiencing a real B-17, but it was the 1st 4 engined bomber I ever made, back in the day when I was a model aircraft nut, I think it is still floating around somewhere at my parents home.
I really enjoy your historical videos! Perhaps you can cover the Bell P-39 & P-63 variants. Very unique Planes at the time with nose gear and other interesting configurations. Thanks for the great content!
I remember once reading a story somewhere of a B-17 flying itself and landing at it's home base after the entire crew bailed out thinking she was going down. The entire crew was surprised to see her sitting there waiting for them when they finally got back to base 3 days later
The section where the B17 bombers were used to bomb the V2 rocket sites remotely. Joe Kennedy Jr.,brother of John F. Kennedy, was a pilot on one of the B17's. The plane was loaded with over 24000 lbs of Vortex and just before the pilot and his engineer were due to bail out the plane exploded into a fireball. The explosion was witnessed by Col. Elliot Roosevelt, the son of the President.
My dad was top turret in the 94th. He said they didn’t wear their flak jackets all of the time. When the Flak was coming ground up, they sat on them. He also said the heated underwear was useless. He said the guys had a tendency to wet their pants and the shock was too much. Haha. He said when they weren’t fighting they would sit and wrap them around their hands and face. His crew flew 29 missions but then didn’t re-unite till the 1980’s. Only then did our mom and my siblings start to hear any stories. Dad was our hero and a true leader in our community. He died in 2009 and I miss him every day. Oh, dad was also a Pearl Harbor survivor. He enlisted about 9 months before Dec 7, 1941 and was at Wheeler Field, mechanic on a P36 that got airborne that day (#86). The Greatest Generation.
The Luftwaffe did the same thing with the JU88C6 only they left the shape of the nose the same as earlier versions they just put 3 Machine guns and a 20MM cannon where the bombardier sat then painted the nose to look like it still was still plexiglass form a distance to trick the soviets into a frontal attack. What a surprize for the unsuspecting fighter pilots that assumed it was a JU88A.
@@JUNKERS488 Yup, common-sense observations are not confined to "the good guys" over "the bad guys". Besides the obvious, war is "bad" because "they" are just as smart and just as motivated as you are.
My dad flew over 35 missions as a Ball Turret Gunner on hid B-17 called Big Dick. . He tore the blinds off the windows in his and moms bedroom many times because he wanted to bail out of his plane. As a youth I remember jumping on his back and trying to wake him. He said he saw friends planes go down.
Members of my family have been working for the Boeing corporation since the 1920's. Some of them helped build B17 bombers and later B29 bombers. I have a Flight Jacket made for the 40th Anniversary in 1978. I also got to ride aboard "Sentimental Journey" too. I knew all of these facts back then. I have many books, and photos from the 1930's 40's, and also of restored aircraft. Members of my family still work for Boeing. I chose a career in the military instead.
If you had dug a little deeper into early B-17 development history, you would have learned that the crash of the 1st prototype on it's 2nd flight WAS NOT caused by "mechanical issues", or any other fault with the aircraft, but by PILOT ERROR! The pilot forgot to disengage the locking lever that locked the elevators in position while parked on the ground. That's why the USAAC was willing to order some for further testing and development.
Here's an eye-opening fact I learned in a book I'm currently reading: the fuselage of the B-17 was so thin that you could poke a screwdriver through it. No protection at all for the crew.
This is exactly how my Uncle was shot down. Head on well placed 20mm then a flack burst in radio compartment. Your animation software is excellent. I have not seen anyone else with the level of detail and accuracy that you have.
I read that there were some B-17s on Midway Island during that battle. The US Navy had the nutty idea that high altitude bombing of enemy shipping would be a "thing" in the future. Well, the bombs never hit any Japanese ships because bombing a moving ship from high altitude is nearly impossible. The Japanese did report a shot-down B-17 trying to do a "kamikaze" maneuver into the bridge of a ship but failing. The Japanese were very impressed by the effort...
Actually the idea of Army Air Corps brass, piggybacking on Billy Mitchell's ideas. And yes, you are correct, they managed to hit absolutely nothing. There were NO B-17s lost at Midway though.
Something for the next video, 1. The B-17 was a derivative design, based on Boeing’s XB-15. A B-17 survived a mid air collision with a Bf 109 and flew back to its base and landed safely, and only broke into after the rear crew door was opened. An experimental gunship version YB-49 was produced and tested as a bomber escort. It was unsuccessful but the Bendix chin turret was used on the B-17G. A YB-40 was used to shoot down an Italian pilot who spoke perfect English flying a captured P-38 to shoot down damaged bomber stragglers. A nose art Drawing of the Gina Rossi (pilot’s wife lived in allied occupied Constantinople) with the name Gina was painted on the decoy bomber which was down to 3 engines and a straggler, baited Rossi (that and the pilot talking about how good Gina was in bed) made the pilot careless and was shot down. A B-17 had the only non-pilot ace, Ben Warner. The B-17 was so stable, one returned to England and dropped the landing gear and made a perfect landing with both Pilots and bombardier, already dead, only a semi-conscious side gunner survived the mission. An 8th USAAF mystery to this day. Tail-gunner Lincoln Broyhill, the most German jets shot down in a single mission and the most jets shot down by a gunner in World War 2. Due to Gen. MacArthur’s incompetence and 8 hour failure to attack the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese captured 3 B-17 in the Philippines, including the top secret Norden Bombsight. The Japanese made copies of the bombsight with improvements.
The problem with the YB-40 wasn't a function of any fault in the design, but was an inevitable feature of the redesign to make it a gunship, with a second upper turret where the radio operator's gun was, the chin turret later fitted to late-model B-17Fs and all the B-17Gs, and additional armor for the crew. The problem was that, while the YB-40 was perfectly capable of escorting boxes of B-17s to target, it retained all of its additional weight that the bombers lost with their bomb load gone, and was unable to keep up with the bomber formation when returning to base, which would make them stragglers, highly vulnerable to being swarmed by Luftwaffe fighters.
@@seanmalloy7249 The "Gina Rossi" Episode, confirmed that even with B-17s still carrying their bomb load, the YB-40, if it lost an engine to flak, couldn't keep up, and to maintain altitude to return to base, the crew would have to jettison all of its ammunition, all of its guns (half the armament had been jettisoned before Rossi had shown up). Fortunately the P-38 flown by pilot Rossi was intent on a frontal attack aimed at the pilot, and the top turrent, chin turret, shot up one of the Lightning's engines. Pilot Rossi survived ditching his plane, and the war. The pilot of the B-17 survived WW 2 only to die in a crash landing as a pilot during the Berlin airlift.
My grandfather was not a tall man. That's how he became a belly gunner in the flying fortress, pacific theater. He lost his left leg below the knee... when a pontoon was dropped on him while unloading a freighter.
Of the five items reviewed, none addressed the most impressive thing a B17 could do. So the question is ... can a B17 be "backed" into its parking ramp stall under its own power ? Answer: YES While stationed in England with the 8th Army Air Corp, Captain Jack Head was attending a "meeting" in the officers club, where the matter of him being able to back his B17 into its ramp stall was discussed. Jack's co-pilot was the only officer to agree he could accomplish this maneuver. A round of wagers ensued. The following morning was a "stand-down day" for the flight crews due to weather. Jack, under the observation of numerous wagering participants, started the "outboard engines" of his plane (this is part of the maneuver). Once warmed up, Jack taxied the B17 perpendicular to his ramp stall, which was on the starboard side of the plane. Jack applied the right brake and power to the starboard outboard engine (note that because the outboard engines are outside the position of the main gear, when power is applied and the corresponding wheel is locked, the plane will pivot backwards approximately 4' in the direction of the locked wheel). By shifting the power and braking in an alternating method, Jack was able to not only back the plane, but could use the tail wheel to turn the plane in reverse taxi. Nobody actually knows how much money Jack and his co-pilot won over time, but what is known is that Jack and his co-pilot flew 30 combat missions and returned to the US, where Jack became a highly successful Cadillac dealer in Claremont, CA. He passed away in 2020. They don't make them like that any more ... hell ... they didn't make them like that back then.
I suppose I was lucky in a way. My dad taught B-17 navigators down in Hondo Texas in 1944-45 for runs over Europe. After V-E Day he transferred over to B25's and prepared to start the carpet bombing of Japan prior to the planned invasion. The two bombs changed that, VJ Day came and shortly after he was discharged. I was born 18 months later.
My father was a tail gunner in a B-17 in 1944 and 45. I got inside a full-size ready-to-fly display down in South Florida one year, but I couldn't get on for a ride. Which may have been a good thing cuz about a year later one of them went down with all hands lost!!
There was one B-17 crew that attempted to rectify the vulnerability of the 12 o'clock position. A fixed gun was added for the pilot to fire, along with additional guns for the waist gunners(basically every position had twin mounted 50cal machine guns) so that there was a total of 19 defensive guns rather than the normal 13. The crew were misfits and outcasts that salvaged a bomber that was being used to spare parts because no one wanted to fly it because superstitions as the tail number was 12666 and it would get "shot to hell" every time it flew. They took on a photo reconnaissance mission and as they finished they were jumped by about 15 Japanese fighters. 4 were downed by the pilot and bombardier. The then flew into each fighter making a pass to give the enemy the least amount of time to fire. This went on for almost an hour and the Japanese ran out of fuel. It was the single most decorated flight of any. The bombardier was KIA after returning to his guns and the pilot immediately collapsed on the controls after landing from exhaustion (he was initially presumed dead). The bombardier and pilot received the Metal of Honor, the rest received Distinguished Flying Crosses, and all received a Purple Heart.
My father was a ball turret gunner on a B-17. He was credited with one ME109 shot down. Their ship, the Blue Champagne was shot down on April 11, 1944. He was taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in Stalag 17-B. They completed 23 combat missions. All 10 crew members bailed out and returned home after the war. I heard my Dad recount his war experiences many times.
Thanks for your reply, John. My Dad passed in 2006 at age 86. He was the oldest guy on the ship. He painted the nose art on his plane, known as the “Blue Champagne.” That was the name of a popular song of the period. His crew became operational on Christmas Eve, 1943. They were shot down over Stettin, Germany on April 11, 1944, on his 23rd mission. He was a talented artist and drew a lot of scenes of the P.O.W. camp. When he bailed out, he broke his arm and leg, due to the low altitude and had to wait for the Germans to come get him. He was with the 8th Air Force, 385 Bomber Group out of England. Hope this helps. My Dad was part of the Greatest Generation.
The prototype of the B-17, model 299 crashed due to the pilot from the Army Air Force failing to complete the preflight checklist. Therefore he left the elevators and rudder LOCKED in position as was the correct position when on the ground to make sure wind would not move these surfaces. The Fortress I as the RAF termed the first B-17's were not accurate at bombing because they used the Sperry Bomb sight. It was later that the Norden Bomb sight came into use and proved to be VERY accurate compared to the Sperry. The head on attack was started against the B-17 E&F models. The chin turret was added to the B-17G model that corrected this weakness.
Since this is about history, some factual adjustments: 1. No multi engine aircraft starts all engines simultaneously. And aircraft engines, especially radial engines make delightful clouds of smoke upon starting. 2. The original B-17, and those caught in the attack at Pearl Harbor had a different tail that was used until the tail we all know began with the B-17E. 3. When an aircraft engine fails, the propeller is 'feathered' so the blade faces into the wind to reduce drag. 4. The Ball Turret in the belly is round.
Interesting stuff, and thank you for posting this. I saw further down the comments that Joe Kennedy, JFK's older brother, volunteered to pilot a drone and was killed on his mission. I first heard the story decades ago from a family friend, who flew fighter escort on several of the Operation A missions.
@@robshirewood5060 Specifically the Navy version called the PB4Y-1. But yea, he wasn't in a B17 as most people think, and technically he wasn't a part of Aphrodite either, the Navy's name of the program was called Anvil.
Great video. My grandfather flew in B-24's and B-17's out of England. He said the B-17 got all the glory but the B-24 deserved some love. He said pilots likened it to a "flying truck". Got a video like this about the B-24?
Something a lot of people really didn't know about the B-17: The just-formed Israeli Air Force snuck 3 "demilitarized" B-17s into the country and used them to bomb Damascus in their war of independence.
The CIA also used B-17s in covert operations over Vietnam because it "didn't look like an American aircraft" -- a telling commentary on how much aircraft design had changed since WWII.
According to a book about the b17s history I read in high school, the peal harbor deliveries were piloted by women's army Air corps reservists, not male pilots as in the movie,. Also, they were unarmed and out of fuel to land anywhere else except a water landing short of the runway.
Dad was a tail gunner. He told me that several times they had to bail out over the English channel and be picked up so that the pilot could limp the heavily shot up B17 in for landing. His words were that the channel was DAMNED cold even in the summer.
During Point 3 it might have been worth mentioning that JFK's elder brother was killed flying one of the kamikaze B-17s when it exploded before the scheduled 2-man crew bail-out point. Point 2 - Unlike most other aircraft of the day, the B-17 was built up from a keel, just like a ship would be. You could literally shoot massive pieces of the fuselage away and the keel would hold the plane together where its heavy brethren would have long disintegrated from loss of structural integrity.
The head-on attack was exploited on earlier B-17. The only defense is the roof turrets. B-17 F added the cheek turrets, and the B-17G added the chin turret.
My uncle who was in the Army Air Corps was a co-pilot in a B-17 that flew bombing missions over Germany. The last flight the plane took on too much anti aircraft fire and was going to crash. The plane was over Germany and a small village. My uncle and pilot ordered every one to bail out. They were able to turn the plane away from the village and crashed into a wooded area. The three left in the plane were awarded the Congressional Medal Of Honor. There is a lot more to the story that needs to be verified. The plane's name was Lady Janet
my favorite b-17 story was the tail gunner that the tail got shot off completely and it still flew a glide and the guy survived but was extremely messed up and a monk or something saved him i cant remember...but its an amazing story
ok thanks it was neat as hell anyway i didn't mean to missinform...maybe it happened to both planes who knows fun to think about.....the ride bet had a pucker factor of 10+
@@larryray3178 there actually was an 8th AF B-17 that had its tail shot off. Due to the centrifugal force, the tail gunner was not able to escape his position, and rode the tail all the way down, expecting his demise. To his utter surprise, he walked away (more or less) from the wreckage. I do not recall if other members of his crew survived though.
On Black Thursday 60 B17s were lost. As bad as this was the numbers didn't change all that much even when attacking Berlin. We still lost around 10 percent of the bomber force sent out, be it 600 or 1000. That casualty count does not include airman injured or killed on aircraft that managed to return.
My uncle was a navigator on a B17 named Boomerang. He was killed on board by an attacking German plane on Feb 16 1943. The rest of crew managed to bail out and plane crashed in a lake near Molac, France. French people visited the plane before sinking and removed my uncle’s body for burial. He is now buried in St James France. In 2014 I visited the area. In a long story I met people who had seen the 1943 crash. The plane remains were removed from the lake in 1946. I have the report. I also have the part that works the bomb bay doors on his B17 gifted me by the Frenchman who found it in the lake 50 years ago. A moving story. Out of all the B17 shot down in Europe in WWII I have a part from the plane my uncle died on. Amazing.
The B25 learned from the B17. My dad flew a B25 in the Pacific Theater, which had 8 .50s in the nose. While we were once talking about bomber tactics to survive fighter attacks, my dad explained that if you were over the ocean, you could dive down and get 500 feet over the water. that prevented fighter from doing strafing runs. So I asked, well what about coming in level from the sides or rear. And once again, dad explained that the B17 we well equipped to defend itself in a situation like that. Finally, I said, well, what about coming directly head on, to which he replied, "Oh boy, if only!" lol
My 9th grade Geography teacher was a tail gunner in a B17 in 1944. All we had to do to get out of taking a lecture, quiz, or test, was ask a question about the B17 and then sit back and take a nap while he went off for the rest of the class. Being immature young teens, we never realized how hard it was for him to talk about it and he often got emotional. Being a Veteran myself now, I regret how we treated him.🤔😕🇺🇸
My junior year high school English teacher was an American WWII POW. Apparently, he had a rough time being a guest of Adolph Hitler. We as immature idiots, often times would get him to speak about his prison camp days just to avoid class work. He was an amazing dude, like many of his generation. Wish I would have paid attention to his stories. Rest in Peace, Mr. B.
I had a High School science teacher who was a Seabee in the Pacific. He was old-school, so we still had to do the work, but he'd tell some wild stories. Great guy. Glenn Arter, USN.
All part of growing up, unfortunately. "We get too soon old. And too late smart"
At least you matured. Many people stop maturing at that age and remain liberal democrats.
One of my high school teacher's was a tunnel rat in Vietnam and he never talked about it but to say that it was his job. Lots of respect for him and anyone who served in anyway and anytime!
My dad was a tail gunner and his plane was shot down on Black Thursday when they bombed the Schweinfurt ball bearings factory. He was taken prisoner and served two years in the infamous Stalag 17 prison of war camp. He didn't talk about it often but when he did the stories were fascinating as well as scary. I still have a book he gave me that he smuggled into the camp and managed to hold on to the entire time until he was liberated. It has drawings, quotes, and other notes and musings from many prisoners in the camp. I treasure this book dearly and will pass it on to my son.
Very cool story. Tail gunners were amazing people to perform that job.
Did you consider having it printed/published ? I would like a copy .
My dad was also in the Schwienfurt raid. The 351st Bomb Group.
The ol' triangle J.
@@imokyousuck there is a book Kriege Memories , one of the prisoners created while in 17b . He negotiated for a camera & film with/the German guards to keep a ledger and drawings, etc. My cousin had a copy and loaned it to someone. I am gonna get on Amazon and get one .
He told one story about the mean guards that would sic the dogs on men in their barracks and get a big laugh at the men scrambling to get away . These barracks were segregated by nationality. The guards did this to the Russians. A couple of minutes later, the only thing that came out of the barracks were the dog collars.
"Focke-Wulf", like "Foock-Wolf", not "Fokker-Wulf", "Focke" has nothing to do with "Fokker".
My mother worked on B-17s at the Seattle Boeing plant. She said the ladies autographed the inside of the wings, so every time in my Air Force career, when I saw one on static display,I wondered if the plane on display was one of “her’s”. And she had a picture of the B-17 on the wall in her house for the rest of her life.
The roof of the plant was decorated to look like residential city streets, so it would not be recognized by enemy bombers flying over.
You mother and millions others were the secret weapons of WW2. The war was won by the time the atomic bomb was created. Rosie the riveter won WWII. Just imaging Albert Speer used slave labor to build his war machine. Slave labor can do nasty things to V2 components. Perhaps your mother helped build my Uncles plane that came from Seattle. You can view his story on TH-cam. Just search “3 Days In May 1943”. Look for image of a B17 with American flag background. Thanks for you story about you mother. God bless her.
@@richardbaranzini8805 that's pretty damn cool.
My uncle was too young to serve in the Armed Forces, so he dropped out of high school and worked at the same Boeing plant making Fortresses. I can't look at one without wondering if he helped build it.
The can do ladies were the savior of our airplane production that played a very important of winning the war.
My father was a tail gunner on a B-17. He was good at it and was lucky enough to come home alive from it after flying more missions than they were suppose to. He earned a bronze v star for all his efforts.
What a brave man thank you for sharing!
My dad was a tail gunner on a B-17 as well. When I was young, I asked him once "dad, did you kill anybody in the war?" to which he answered "I hope not". Although he never told us if he had any kills, I have his journals from the war, but I've read them and all I remember is in one of them, he wrote "we took a lot of flak today" and also of losing one of his buddies. My dad was also lucky to come home alive.
My dad was also a tail gunner on a B-17, 13th US Army Air Force in 1945 just as WWII was ending. He was also small enough to be a backup ball turret gunner - a much hated gunner position.
Much respect
@@joeyager8479 Respect to your dad, my dad was also a tail gunner (above entry). Yep the ball turret was not an enviable spot, those men were beyond brave.
My father was the left waist gunner in a B17 G in the 99th Bob Group stationed in Foggia, Italy. On his last mission - bombing munitions factories in Germany - the 17 was shot up quite badly, and they lost an engine. During the return flight, they lost two more engines, during which time the pilot realized they wouldn't make it back to Foggia. He then headed towards the part of Yugoslavia that is now Croatia, hoping for a safe landing, and the opportunity to fall in with Marshal Tito's partisans there. They actually made a wheels-up landing in a field between two steep hills with that single engine still running, and no crew injuries.
After destroying the super-secret Norden bomb sight, he crew broke up into three groups, but only one group made it out to Sweden and then, England.
My dad and the others were eventually captured and force-marched to Luft Stalag 17ß, all the way back in Krems, Austria, where they spent the duration of the war.
The 17 was stripped of its aluminum skin by locals for patching their roofs. A nice you man from one of the local villages, tracked down my dad a couple of decades ago, and in his letter included a couple of photos of the 17 and about 20 villagers. The B17 G had flown for in excess of 200 nautical miles, full of holes, on a single engine, and landed 10 men safely in some god-forsake field!
Kudos, Boeing. Kudos!
Old Rogue, your Dad was one of the American badasses in the European theater. Thank God for men like him. People in France, Belgium, Italy, Romania, Hungary -- and yes, even Germany -- should write thank you notes to you and your family every year to thank you for your Dad's service.
Nice story
We'll be able to thank people like your father personally when we're able to thank our Savior personally. As best I can I thank Him now and thank you for telling this incredible story.
My dad was in the 15th stationed in Foggia too. He was ground crew fireman for crash rescue. Too often there was nobody left to save. That haunted him. I am glad your dad made it.
Do you mean Switzerland instead of Sweden?
My late stepfather was a waist gunner on B-17s (from their first runs). At first, the waist guns did NOT have any kind of arrestor, to avoid the gunners from shooting their own planes. After his second or third sortie, the service crew for his plane realized that the back end of the B-17 was LOADED with unusual bullet holes, something like 100. My stepfather complained the "the damn Germans were just unbelievable" that day. According to my stepfather, his service crew man replied "ya silly bastard, that was YOU that shot up this plane". According to my stepfather, they showed him that all of the holes mushroomed OUT in the aluminum. Supposedly, arrestor suddenly arrived at bases, to be installed on the waist gunners, within a week. Apparently, my stepfather was NOT the only one to do this.
My stepdad has been gone for 8 years now, and I never thought to verify this story with professionals, but I can say this. That story was repeated repeatedly (decades ago), with his remaining flying crew by many of the members of his flight crew, at the get-togethers of his WWII reunions.
My stepdad did 39 missions. Never a scratch. Not many crewmembers could say that...
Just like "Indiana Jones" father shot off the rudder on the plane, and he said to Indy: "They got us son!" 🤪
My Dad was a radio operator and waist gunner on a B17 in the 91st bomb group based in England.
He flew 28 missions, got Air medal with Oak Leaf Clusters and I have his paperwork for his Distinguished Flying Cross.
His bomb group had a rough road to hoe, lost 85%
Lost 85% of their original al crews and 100% of the replacements. He refused to ever speak about it. I rec'd his paperwork with some photos whe. He passed. God Bless him forever.
@@lynnephelps7984 I'm sure it was an awful part of his life & a part he did not want to relive.
This was my Dad He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
My dad was a radio operator and 50 cal machine gunner on the B17 35 missions over Germany he was a member of the Lucky Bastards Club i tried to take him up for a ride when the Wings Of Freedom were here he wouldn't go i have his complete diary of all his missions they were the Great Generation RIP Dad Thank You For your service
Hey Gary - great stuff and yes to your father and all service men and women … Thank you for your service 🇺🇸🇺🇸.. my father was also in the US Army Air Corp as a B17 Navigator… unfortunately he died at 57 yrs old when I was a young 18 knowitall kid- and I miss him everyday of my life. I really didn’t get to know him and of his war experiences. But I have all his flight records/ missions and info from my oldest brother.who is a V Nam vet and talked a lot with my dad. What we would give for 1 more day with our dads -right ? Takecare 👍🇺🇸
Be thankful for what they gave for all of us.
My father in law was a tail gunner who flew more than 56 mission until being shot down over France. He said he could not go home until all his buddies were safe and accounted. True hero for a Country Boy Who Made Good.
@@Br5494ever Yes we all miss our dads so much, all the more when you get older and wiser. My dad ( I am English ) was in the desert war with the British 8th army and told us all many war stories. Like yourself, I really miss my mum and dad and wish I could talk to them again now that I am older and realise far more about life than I did when they were alive.
@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ "Praise the Lord...and, pass the Ammunition
Interesting coincidence. My father was radio operator/waist gunner on a B17 called Jezebel. While flying over New York City during the World series he was playing the World series over the radio for the crew. His pilot, a LT Wheeler, pulled out of formation and buzzed Yankee Stadium stopping the game. Mayor Laguardia (sp) was livid and wanted their butts however as it turned out to be a top notch publicity stunt highly increasing the sale of war bonds they were let off with just a reprimand as dad told it and the old news clippings he had confirmed.They went on to England and flew 26 missions over Germany.
In 2000, I flew in a B17. It was the nine-o-nine. We went up to 5k feet for 20 minutes. Amazing. The noise from 4 big engines was deafening. The skin of the plane was as thick as a cereal box. A bullet would have no problem going right through. Those men were incredibly brave. Thank you for your dedication.
I did too with shorts on and in a B-29.Boy was it TINY and a 29 large as in No Thanks you'll never get out in a Heated suit w Flak jacket.Brave Men at 19..
RIP Nine-O-Nine
In 2008 I was lucky to video and tour 9-0-9, in Manchester, NH. I also videoed it warming up engines (quite the wind blast) then taking off. Returning from work the evening before I saw its unmistakable B17 shape flying toward me low over the trees along the road I lived on. (On one of its passenger flights). Then 909 turned to fly over the cornfield by my house.
yeah, noticed that too when I got a chance to walk around inside the Memphis Belle...[the movie Belle]...when it was being worked-on at the local airport...since they had gained a bit of a rep repairing and restoring one that had crashed there at an air show a bit earlier and had often done it with improvised parts...you could actually push the skin in and out with your fingers...not much protection against a 20mm....
My old boss and mentor from Jr. & High School was Major Carl Clark, who flew the 909 after first being restored. He was a B-17 pilot flying out of Bassingborne, England during WWII. He flew in a couple of Bomb Groups and was a Pathfinder in his last group. Check out Carl Clark and The Amazing Landing.
I worked for him for years and never knew he was a Pilot as he never talked about it. Once he began flying the 909 he was open to discussing his missions. RIP Carl Clark, you were an institution to youth of Idabel, Oklahoma at the Rocket Roller Rink.
My father was a B-17 pilot in WW II. During a mission over France, his plane was hit and both engines on the right wing were lost. My father was the only member of the flight crew that was not injured. He single handedly brought the plane and crew back to England safely. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. My father was a true hero. You mentioned that once a B-17 was able to return with just 2 engines. I wonder if you were referring to my father's plane.
He was a amazing pilot
my Dad .....He was a decorated World War II Army Air Corps Veteran, serving in the 97th Bombardment Group as a Staff Sergeant. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal with six Oak Leaf Clusters for flying 51 missions as a tailgunner on B-17s over Europe.
A lot of B-17s made it back on 2 engines...
...but rarely when those engines are on the same side. So yeah, that was quite a feat of flying your father pulled off.
Brad he was a amazing man and pilot thank you for his service
God bless him!!! Something similar happened to "Rosie's Riveters"...both port side engines out. They somehow made it to The Channel, when they spotted a fighter ahead. Fearing the worst, the crew braced for an attack...the fighter came in gradually, very carefully....it was a P-47 Thunderbolt sent to shepherd the cripples home! Now accompanied by this little friend, the crew was able to throw out their .50s, and lighten up....Robert Rosenthal brought them home!!!
Several years ago, I read the war memoirs of Saburo Sakai, Japanese WW2 Zero pilot ace. Like the German pilots in your video, Sakai was amazed at how much damage the B-17 could take before it was shot-down and that they often had to break contact because their Zeros ran out of ammunition. He was amazed at the discipline of the B-17 pilots to maintain a tight formation when under attack. He wrote that the earlier versions of the B-17 didn’t have a rear tail gunner so that was a vulnerable spot that he successfully exploited when attacking. When the rear tail gunner was installed, the B-17 became a plane that he dreaded attacking. There was no weak spot.
B17's flew in combat box formation. Any German Luftwaffe fighter plane flew on that space was going to be hit by 50 caliber bullets one way or another!
The Germans still were able to shoot down about 4,700 B-17s throughout the war.
Gus, my father in law, flew 35 missions as a ball turret gunner on "Patent Pending", 5 more missions than the required 30 to end your tour and get shipped back to the US.
One of his last missions was on February 15th 1945 over Dresden Germany a mission that arguably broke the back of the German invasion.
He kept a private log/scrapbook of all his missions that my wife and I had bound and keep as a treasured memory .
I have a defective altimeter that was replaced in my uncles B17 in England. Nice souvenir of these young men bravery
I wish you guys would make copies and sell the copies I would buy one immediately
Think about getting that log /scrap book scanned and the information donated to a history museum as a primary source for future generations.
I myself doubt that Dresden air attack. In reality German war machine had been effortless, because U.S. 8th Air Force had bombed German fuel refineries to bits.
All those new Tiger tanks, Me 262 jet fighters, lorries, other aircraft were wholly useless without necessary fuel.
It had been extraordinary success with all the B-17 units and men, and women who build these bombers. Thank for them and hats off, dudes!
What memories are in that logbook. What a documentary that would be.
The head on attack of the German fighters, according to my father, a B17 waist gunner, was often done with a barrel roll through the B17 formation. My father thought they were showing off until he spoke with a German pilot after the war. It turned out that the fighters had little to no armor on the sides, but did have some protection underneath, so they rolled with the belly of their plane toward the B17 as they passed by them.
Fascinating!!
Yep its completely true the Fw190s had a 8-10mm armored plate on the belly to protect the fuel tank and pilot as well as the engine and its cowling. almost all planes had a bullet proof glass plate in the front of the cockpit and an armored seat/headrest and later models of the BF190 had armor around the fuel tank but not from the bottom
Adolf Galand once remarked that making a frontal attack on a B17 was like "making love to a burning porcupine."
I love hearing stories of American and German pilots getting together after the war and exchanging stories.
@@mikew.8894 Wasnt he in charge of the ME 262's? If I remember right, he wanted to use the ME 262 to shoot down the B17, but his nuttty boss wanted to use them as offense bombers.
The first B-17 I ever say was on a south to north approach to the old Denver airport in the 1980's.
We heard her LONG before we saw her, doing a few fly-over circles of the old Lowery AFB, then she made the final turn at the beacon and flew right over our house at about 300 feet.
I worked on C-130A's when I served in the Navy, but this old bird still fills me with pride and awe.
I'm told my uncle was a radioman on one the last 6 months of the war but he never discussed his experiences with any non-veterans.
Thanks for making this video! My dad was a B-17 belly gunner. If you saw him you would know why, he was about 5’5”. Little guy gets screwed. He passed away before I was 10 yrs. old, so I only heard a few of his stories. I remember my mom, brother and I took a plane to a small vacation spot up north in California when I was around 7. My dad drove up and met us there the next day. So I asked him why he didn’t fly with us when we came north. That’s when he told me what he experienced in WW II as a belly gunner. Two stories were about being stuck in the ball turret due to damage. The ball turret has to be orientated properly to enter and exist the turret. Damage caused to the turret ring prevented him from moving the turret, the crew couldn’t use the hand crank to move the turret, only after frantic attempts with hammers and crow bars could they get him out. A similar situation happened on another mission, this time the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged. They were going to have to belly land the plane with him still stuck in the ball turret. With less than five minutes before they had to land they were able to get him out of the turret. He said those planes were held together with bailing wire and duct tape. If the plane could get off the ground it was considered operational. He retired from the Air Force in 1967 and since WW II he never flew again. Again, thanks for this video.
Re: "the hydraulics were out and the landing gear was damaged"
I read an account by a WWII AAF mechanic that everything on the B17 was electric and on the B24 it was hydraulic.
@@johnclawed If your asking me what a 7 yr. old remembers now at the age of 62, you are not going to get exact quotes. Nor have I ever been in a B-17, read it’s schematics, nor have any specialized knowledge of its construction, modifications or operational details.
@@notebene9791 I'm sorry it sounded like that. I didn't mean to shoot you down, as it were. 30 years ago I used a bulletin board where some great first hand accounts were posted. There was a merchant mariner who posted a 10-page memoir of the Murmansk run, and there was the mechanic I quoted. I wish I'd saved those posts and others, so I just wanted to preserve that bit of trivia here, since this is all about the B17, and I thought you might find it interesting too.
Was his name Sean Astin by any chance?
@@goblue0020 I wish I remembered their names. I've never seen a forum that good ever since.
I was lucky enough to get in on one of the last backstage tours of the US Airforce Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB. The craftsman were rebuilding a B-17. They were working on the belly gun pod. How anyone could do that job and not go insane was beyond me.
They'd have to raise the turret, orient it correctly, open the hatch, climb out and only then could get to their parachute.
Another Great video TJ. I actually learned something I did not know about the Beautiful B-17. Most of The pilots who flew them in combat said that they would never fly anything else because the B-17 could bring you home when all others couldn't. They had to be very brave men to climb into a plane and fight miles above the earth. Knowing that group of thin cables that ran just above their head along both sides of the ceiling of the fuselage worked the aircraft's control surfaces like the Ailerons, Rudder, Elevators and all the other goodies you needed to fly. On the B-17 "All AMERICAN" those cables were pretty much the only thing holding her together to bring her home. The B-17 is simply an Amazingly tough Aluminum Aircraft flown by men of Steel. Keep Em coming TJ. TJ3 videos are my favorite part of Fridays.
B-24 crews would brag that they got home faster. The B-17 crews would reply that it was true, but that they got home more often.
@@andrulV2 🤜🏼💥🤛🏼
My father (John) enlisted in the Army Air Corps (1942), age 17, and served as a gunner and radio operator on B-17s. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force in England and flew 35 combat missions over Europe. Including one shown as "SECRET" on his papers. The records were lost during a fire at Fort Benjamin Harrison.
His brother (George) was a Navy aviator flying in the Pacific area: his plane was shot down . The bad news was wired to the family, who were surprised three months later when he walked in the front door in his Navy uniform. He went on to be a civilian businessman.
My father had left the service at the end of the war and worked as a TV/Radio engineer. He was called back to duty for the Korean conflict but didn’t have to deploy; and stayed with the new US Air Force. He retired after 26 years of active duty including support in the Vietnam War.
My mother and her sisters worked at a ball-bearing factory during WWII.
My father, uncle and mother are all buried at Arlington National Cematary.
Thank you for the reminder.
Regards
My father was also in the 8th Air Force. Polbrook. You mentioned ft. Benjamin Harrison. You a Hoosier also? Hartford City is where we were.
Here's another one you probably didn't know. They stopped painting B17's to save weight and time in production. Even though it weighs more a painted B17 will fly faster (~10 kts) and farther (~90 miles) than an unpainted B17 with the same fuel load.
I didn't know that! It makes some sense though, as the paint would at least partially fill the dimples caused by riveting, thus reducing the drag. Do you have a citation, by any chance?
We had with Spitfires they was designed built using flush rivets but apart from cost took longer to build than using normal rivets so after trials as fully non flush caused all sorts of issues with not only speed but manoeuvrability also due to drag . But in the end worked out a compromise! Low pressure areas used normal and high pressure Flush rivets without a too big an effect on performance was also done with other planes also.
@@oldrogue4247 very recently there was a video made about The matter that cited actual USAAF test results, iirc. I believe you can find The video on TH-cam And see The citations The video uploader used
@@anttitheinternetguy3213 Thanx man. I saw it, or one very much like it in the past few days!
Perhaps the paint allowed the boundary layer of air to not "stick" to the plane like the smooth aluminum did.
My dad flew the B17 in WWll. 32 missions over Germany. Came back over the English Channel on fire 3 times. Lost crew members. After the war he never stepped in a plane again.
I had an uncle who was in the Army Air Corps. he was a SSgt and line chief stationed at a B-17 base in England. The stories he told me about how shot up the B-17's were but yet got their crews back home is something I'll never forget.
You shouldn't ever forget!
Do you remember what Air Base your uncle was stationed at in England?
@@johnebell535 I'm sure he told me at one point but it's been so long as he passed away almost 27 years ago.
You won’t find stories like that about the B-24. They couldn’t take a whole lot of damage like that and stay in the air. It didn’t take much to knock one out of the air.
I had the honor of flying in the Collin’s Foundation B-17 909 about fifteen years ago out of Baton Rouge. About a thirty minute flight over False River. I had a smile on my face for several days after that. Unfortunately, the 909 was lost in a crash a few years ago. 😢
I rode in the B-17G "Yankee Lady" @ the WWII WEEKEND AIRSHOW IN READING PA, I'll NEVER forget it!
On my bucket list for sure
WWII weekend is by far the best airshow in the country. I go whenever I can!
Got my bucket list ride three weeks ago in a P51. Worth every dollar!!!!
I left a reply to plee587 about the 909 and my experience at the Eighth Air force Re-union in Pittsburgh during the mid 90's . It's a hellava good story , even if I do say so myself .
The 'head on' method of attacking an enemy bomber was devised in the early years of WW2 by the legendary Eric 'Winkle' Brown of the Fleet Air Arm, when he flew carrier missions protecting Atlantic convoys. He discovered that the best way to attack the heavily armed Condor long range bombers was from directly in front to target the pilots.
For those that have never seen a B-17 in person or been inside of one, they are surprisingly small. The only plane that surprised me for being even smaller than I thought was the PBY Catalina.
We have one here in AZ at the Commemorative Air Force Museum. You can’t always go in it but I have and agree, very small inside. The B-17 has been my favorite aircraft of all time since I first saw one in a picture when I was about 7 years old.
@@aaronpearson2389 They are beautiful. I am not a great piston engine aircraft fan, but the B-17 is one of my favorites of the type. I had the pleasure of touring the one that was involved in the mid air collision last month. I saw it in May. It made me very sad for the loss of both the aircraft and the crew.
i had the opportunity to go up in the Collins Foundation's B17, the 909 (R.I.P.) It was the smallest aircraft i'd ever flown in and the smoothest flight i ever experienced.
@@mikew.8894 Yeah we think of bombers as being big, spacious fuselage and some are but this was much smaller than I could have imagined. On the other side of that, I remember seeing the B-36 at the Air Force Museum and remember being totally shocked at how large it was. If it were not for the bulkheads, you could get the whole B17 fuselage inside with room to spare.
@@aaronpearson2389 During the week of Thanksgiving last fall, 2023, I was visiting family in Phoenix and we went to the Commemorative Air Force Museum and we had a great time. I walked through the B-17 and it is very small inside. I plan on visiting again this coming Thanksgiving when I go back to Phoenix.
My grandfather was a B-17 pilot, and as he was about to be out into active service WW2 ended. I've always been fascinated.
Ever since my boyhood, I deeply revered the Boeing B-17 "Flying Fortress" USAAF Heavy Bomber and its valorous grew.
Idabel, Oklahoma remembers one of its greatest heros, Captain Carl Clark, B-17 Pathfinder Pilot. Later in his life he was reunited with the B-17 and flew the 909 for the Collins Foundation. Carl owned a Skating Rink in Idabel and was a friend to every child he ever met. I was fortunate to have worked for him for several years and to remain friends until his passing. Check out: Carl Clark and the Amazing Landing.
As to the crash of the first test aircraft in the Army competition; the crew took off with the central control lock engaged. Unable to maneuver the aircraft it flew into a hill that was almost straight ahead. Up to that point in aviation, a "checklist" was rather rare as most of the procedures were left up to the pilot in the left seat and his memory. Co-pilot's were just there to follow his orders. Several newspapers in that day trumpeted with the usual early aviation hysteria that the '17 was so complicated that one man couldn't remember everything. Not true, simply follow the list-"ask and answer".
it wasnt a central lock, it was a control surface lock for the rudder and elevators. consequently the aircraft climbed too steeply, stalled and crashed on the airfield.
Major Poyer P. Hill was the pilot that made that huge mistake. The air force named Hill Airforce base in Ogden Utah in his honor.
@@thurin84 central lock, control lock, pad lock, I think we got the idea and he was pretty much accurate in passing on the gist of what happened. But thanks for really nailing it down.
@@larrycooper9487 it makes a difference. having the control surfaces locked caused a specific type of crash. ie stall. its didnt fly into a mountain. it didnt have mechanical issues. but hey, who needs facts. amiright?
This is why those red strips saying remove before flight were implemented.
During WWII my grandmother was part of the crew that installed the instrument panels for the piolets. my Grand father was in Europe fighting. I did not know my Grandma helped build them until after her death. Lose Lips Sink Ships! I wish I had known, I would have loved to talk to her about it.
My father was one of the ground crew that operated the radio for the radio controlled experiments. I've got photos of him with an early transponder, eyes to the sky, and guiding an airplane. He didn't tell us the details, but I know he was fairly high up in the engineering department. Thanks for this vid, I'm always interested in warbirds!
In 1986 I met a pilot who was co pilot, in a B17. He said on his tenth Mission they were attacked over Germany, and shot up so bad they had to crash land on an Island that was half in the hands of the Germans and half in a nation that was not in the war. after the crash they split up into two groups, and half went one way, the the other wound up in German hands, and went to a German prison. The man I was talking to went with the group that got caught, and spent 18 months in Stalag 17. The crew who went the other way, were later all killed in another mission.
The quality and reliability of this plane is one of reasons I exsist today. Gramps was MSgt, Flight Engineer 8th/12th/15th AAF, 301stBG, 419thSq. 1942-1945
Funny! Never thought of it that way.
TJ3 History, I hope you save each and every one of these stories. They are precious and starting to fade from memory. They need to be preserved for future generations.
In 1941, the Brits ordered some B-17's - they were the "D" model. Some of the guns were downgraded to .303. There were also no guns in the tail, and no powered turrets. One .303 in the nose, one .303 in the radio room blister, one .303 in a bathtub, and a .50 in each waist blister. One of the complaints that the Brits had about these aircraft, is that for some unknown reason the bomb bay doors would regularly fail to open at high altitude causing a mission abort. But as the crew came back to england and reduce to a lower altitude, the bomb bay doors would work, so the bombs could be jettisoned to allow for a safe landing w/o armed high explosives on board. Boeing engineers figured out why the bay doors were not functioning correctly. At some point, after the aircraft reached cruising altitude, the crew would relieve themselves before entering the combat area.. they would do that into the bomb bay.. since the b-17 bay doors overlapped slightly, the urine could not drain out before freezing the doors shut..when returning to england, as they reduced altitude, the urine would thaw.. thus the doors worked again to jettison the bomb load..
...and the brit crew members knew that
@@ssnerd583 Bloody stupid comment
I call BS. Would take GALLONS and a bit of buildup to cause this, im certain the hydraulics werent that weak to not overcome a few pints of frozen pee
@@ssnerd583.The successes of Bomber Command were purchased at terrible cost. Of every 100 airmen who joined Bomber Command, 45 were killed, 6 were seriously wounded, 8 became Prisoners of War, and only 41 escaped unscathed (at least physically). Of the 120,000 who served, 55,573 were killed including over 10,000 Canadians. Of those who were flying at the beginning of the war, only ten percent survived. So, what are you trying to say?
Interesting detail. Heard about guns freezing, but not about the bomb bay doors. I think first batch to RAF were Cs (a pic I have does not seem to have the cowl flaps introduced by the D).
Thanks for this video. Even more so thanks to those in the comments with their personal experiences or stories of family members that were part of B-17 crews. I really enjoy reading them. I had the honor of a lifetime of flying on a B-17 with my wife’s grandfather, who was shot down and spent the last month of the war in Stalag 1. It is truly a privilege that some organizations are able to keep these things flying so people can experience even a little bit what I must’ve been like. It really hits home. Truly the greatest generation. I posted up the home video I took during the flight. I remember it like yesterday it was such an awesome experience.
The B-17 is also the reason why pre flight checks by civil aviation is used today.
The B-29 helped to refign that when the DC-6 was to become an air transport
I am a pilot and I will support this statement.
I read the same in “The Checklist Manifesto”. A good management book, by the way,
A Luftwaffe ace once told me attacking a B-17 combat box was like standing in a bathtub & looking up at the shower-head, while trying to avoid getting wet.
FWIW, I have read a number of reports from Japanese Naval and Army pilots from WWII. Their most feared aircraft was NOT the P-51, the P-40, the P-38, or even the "Whistling Death, the F4-U Corsair, it was the B-17. Used mostly for long range reconnaissance missions, the Japanese pilots grew to fear the airplane that was almost impossible to bring down. When they got their hands on a captured B-17, they were amazed and impressed by the precision of the build, and the overall capabilities, which their own designers could not match.
Especially one in particular, Old 666. Probably the greatest story of survival. It can be found on youtube also.
The F6F Hellcat shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other plane. Just an FYI.
Don't you mean FWIIW?
@@harrylessenger4872 Harry, I do not dispute what you say, I was relating what I had read in TWO separate autobiographies of WWII Japanese pilots, one in the IJN, the other in the Japanese Army. I recall one of the books was called "The Emperor's Eagle", but I confess I do not remember the name of the other book- it has been a long time. The Japanese pilots had GREAT respect for the B-17!
@@Kpar512 I believe you Kirk, the point I was making is that you neglected to mention the most successful U.S. Navy fighter of WWll in the Pacific Theater, after naming the planes that you did. The Mariana Turkey Shoot is a prime example. p.s. My Father was a B-17 pilot flying out of Braintree, England and was wounded during a bombing run over Hamburg.
We will never forget the B-17 "Texas Raider" that was rammed by a P-63 Airacobra at a Dallas Airshow her tail was clipped completely from her main fuselage I will never forget the video footage of that event rest in peace to the 5 crewman of the B-17 and the pilot of the P-63 and to end on a happier note, happy Thanksgiving y'all
I flew on the Texas Raider at an air show in New Orleans in 2018. It was only a 20 minute hop but it was a fantastic experience. I was very saddened at her loss.
For a tale of tough B-17s read up on "Old 666" in the Pacific. A worn-out B-17E was converted to a self-defending long range recon plane and crew by a crew of misfits. Fifteen Zeroes couldn't shoot it down, although the aircrew was pretty well shot up.
Here is a TH-cam video on old 666 ….
th-cam.com/video/6Im086TCu3I/w-d-xo.html
Read the book. Those guys were true grit American Patriots! "Mike" Kelly
Yes, great story. History channel covered that in their "long odds" series.
The addition of the dual turret at the front was a perfect add on but came late when the Luftwaffe was on its last legs I believe. At one point the B-17s were almost unopposed. Can’t fight a war on two fronts. One will suffer. The addition of decent range fighters escorts helped immensely in taking out the Luftwaffe as well. Good video. Thx.
Being a B-17 fanatic, I already knew all about this. Great video though.
My Dad was a Bombardier on his plane Ms. MaNookie. On 11/5/43, Dad took shrapnel in his right thigh, and return to active flights on 11/14/43. On 2/21/44, his plane was hit hard (exact words were "Blew the plane up" and he helped the engineer to bale out and he followed. He hit the ground with his head which knocked him out. When he awoke, a farmer was holding a pitchfork on is chest and was given over to the Germans. Dad spent 13 months in prison camp (We think it was Stalag 2 along the Baltic Sea) and when the war ended, he came home to New Orleans. He married my mother in 1946 and three babies later (1948, 1949, and me in 1950). He passed in 2003. Dates came from his original flight log and I also have dad's Purple Heart and POW medal plus his leather flight jacket which kept him warm during the winter months. At an San Jose CA air show in the early 1990's, I bordered a surviving B-17 and can attest to the thin walls and cramped space.
My Dad’s group of 3 was also captured by a farmer with a pitchfork! They were all carrying Colt .45s, but they didn’t want to kill a civilian, so the surrendered to him.
I feel privileged to have been able to enter and walk around inside a B-17 a few years ago. I was astounded by how large the aircraft looked parked out on the tarmac, but how claustrophobic it was inside!
In 2012, I did a walk around a B-17 at a local airshow. It was the first time I had seen one in person. A beautiful bird.
I have been inside a Lancaster and can imagine how claustrophobic in can be in a B-17.
My uncle was a tail gunner in a Lancaster. He told me how difficult it was for tail gunners to get the rest of the crew. Crawling over the bomb bay housing was difficult with the plane on the ground. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been with the plane flying.
that space going up to the cockpit can't be much more than a foot wide...too tight for a fatty like me....
i always hated that the confederate air force knuckled under to the p.c. ers and changed their name. like anyone would actually think that the confederate states of america had an air force (besides the observation balloons) the omly part of a b-17 i thought was claustrophobic was the cockpit
@@frankpienkosky5688 Same here, Frank. These guys were a skinny bunch, weren't they? 🙂
Should go have a look inside a Lancaster! out of our three main bombers.Halifax.Stirling.Lancasters was worst one to have to bailout of with many crews perishing as not able to get out of door near rear.
25 years ago I had the privilege of climbing aboard a B-17. I was at the local airport just before takeoff. I JUST missed a B-24. I had my 8 year old daughter onboard. I told her imagine that it's 40 below zero and there are people shooting at you. The price of liberty.
i had a photo of my daughter on board,,in my fathers radio op seat,,
Did you know that a B-17 can be backed up? Not reversible props but by using differential braking and the outboard engines one can walk it backwards.
I never realized that, but you're right!
That's a really cool tidbit. Took me a second to visualize how that would work but it makes sense!
One of the other commentators explained that in detail.
The B-17 is one of if not the most beautiful planes ever built.
Jimmy Steward said the B-24 was just as good as the B-17 but the B-17 had a better press agent.
Dad's first job as an Aeronautical Engineer was for Lockheed on P-38s. When Lockheed was contracted to build B-17s under contract to Boeing, dad moved over to that line. The plane with all the drawings and specifications was flown from Boing field to Burbank field, Lockheed studied the drawings and were instructed to disassemble the plane to make all of the dies and fixtures for building them. When they started producing bombers, that plane was piled outside one of the hangars. Late in about 1943, before dad got drafted into the Army, Lockheed reassembled the plane and using some of the remaining Allison engines bought by England for their run of P-38s, all normal rotation engines, they took four and grafted them to that B-17. The problem was Fire Suppression equipment was supplied by the military, and non-available for that aircraft. They test flew it over Murdock, (Edwards now) and a wing of new P-51 were training at probably George Airfield and loved chasing that particular B-17 as fun, the only problem they couldn't catch it. It outran them at low altitude. On its last flight a fire occurred, and the plane was abandoned, taking the silk ride down, losing the plane near Murdock. Lots of interesting planes left out there. The Army Air Force wasn't interested in having a B-17 that outran its cover, so nothing more was done on that idea.
A Captain Kurtz flew an early B-17 in the Pacific Theater transporting the brass from Australia to Hawaii and back. The crew named it Swoose since it flew gracefully like a swan while looking like a goose. Kurtz had the mechanics to "hot rod" the engines so the aircraft could fly faster so managed to set a non-stop speed record flying from Australia to Hawaii which didn't amuse the brass on board. After the war Kurtz had a family where they named a daughter Swoozie in honor of his B-17. She became an actress in several comedy films. She was the tour guide at the Alamo that told Pee Wee Herman that the Alamo didn't have a basement.
Swoozie Kurtz yes an actress. Thanks for the back story.
In 1989I was at an air show in Corvallis OR being put on by the CAF. (today it's known as the Commemorative Air Force. Back then it was the Confederate Air Force). Among the war birds flying in the show that day were several of the AT6 Texans (modified to look like Japanese aircraft) that were used in the used in the movies Tora! Tora! Tora! and the Final Countdown. There was also a B17, which turned out to be the very same B17 used in the one wheel landing you showed in the film clip. One of the pilots explained they had a switch installed in the cockpit that when switched could disable the right landing gear. Later in the show, the B17 took to the air did some flybys and then demonstrated the one wheel landing scene for the crowd.
If you watch the landing sequence in the movie carefully, you can easily see the switch from the clear Hollywood camera work of the B17 touching one wheel, and rest of the sequence where the grainy 8mm footage of a battle damaged B17 makes a landing with only one wheel down and then spins out as the wing tip hit. That footage was shot in England during WWII and has been used in many documentaries and shows.
My uncle was a B17 polit and told me the 17's had a bad problem with props coming loose . This happened to his plane and had to turn around and return to England . Shortly after turning around they where jump by a flight of fighters . They where shot up so bad they didn't think they would make it back . They nursed her back and landed back in England . All the crew where wounded but my uncle , he managed to get it back , Our Baby , save the plane and the crew .
I went through a B17 a few years ago with a ball turret gunner...not only was it much smaller than I thought, each 50 cal had only 900 rounds of ammo. 50 cal ammo is heavy...the weight was needed for the bombs. As a former Navy P3 Aircrewman (Vietnam) , I was amazed at: not pressurized, not big, well below zero at 30K feet; electrified suits to keep warm, etc., etc. Those guys had cojones the size of melons~!
My father was a copilot on Stormy Weather and a tail gunner on Wildfire. 351st bombardment group based out of Polebrook, England.
My Grandpa John W. Miser was a B17 Captain of "The Mighty 8th Airforce" during WW2. His B17 was named "FiFi" which he flew in the European theater for the entire duration of war. He forged his paperwork to join when he was only 15 and was the youngest Army Air-Core Captain during the war (unofficially because of forged documents). He used to tell the same story all the time about how his squadron won the war (obviously exaggerated). The story goes they had a mission to bomb an important nazi weapons factory but they stayed up all night drinking the night before, jumped into their planes on no sleep drunk as fuck, continued to drink heavily the entire flight which was common practice among bomber crews due to all the stress involved in bombing missions, the sky was overcast and so cloudy you could couldn't see more than 2 feet in front of the plane so they had to navigate on Instruments only, they dropped their payload with zero visibility and missed the weapons plant but hit a german beer factory causing the Germans to give up the next day, as beer is extremely important to Germans lmao. Funny thing is my grandpa's parents were German immigrants. After the war he went on to fly for and later work in upper management for American Airlines at Chicago O'Hare for 28 years. He also flew for JFK during his presidential campaign. Before he died in 2012 he was doing B17 honor flights to Washington DC for WW2 Army Air-Core Vets.
VERY cool history. Would make a great book.
Mizzle420420: Did your Grandpa share with the Intelligence people that they had dropped their load on a bier (German/European beer) factory? The entire frickin' war could have been shortened by several months if our air forces destroyed all the beer factories. BTW, thanks for your submission of this story. There were SEVERAL LOL's in it...
Fifi is one of two surviving airworthy B-17s, right?
Fifi lives on today as a flyable B-29.
Amazing planes. My father has been in charge of restoring one for the past 4-5 years(and helped with multiple others). These aircraft had advanced features for their time.
Whenever you have an iconic plane like the B-17, there are always a few planes that it beat out for the job. I would like to see some info on the runners up, and why they fell short of the b17.
I believe they based the A-10 "Warthog" Lightning II on the B-17. The A-10 was famously built around the Gau-8 30mm gatling cannon so it required an airframe capable of carrying a ton of weight (for the heavy Gau-8, plus hardpoint mounted missiles and bombs) while also having a high survival rate after taking large amounts of sustained fire. The B-17's track record for high durability and survivability after heavy fire was a perfect choice for a close air support, rotory cannon based attacker. They obviously changed a bunch of stuff but the basic airframe design is very reminiscent of the B-17.
The Republic A-10 "Warthog"'s official name is Thunderbolt II, not Lightning II. It is named for Republic's FAMOUS WW2 fighter, the P-47 Thunderbolt. The original Thunderbolt was built like a TANK. It had a HUGE P&W 2000-hp radial engine (the F4U Corsair carrier plane used a similar engine). Early versions were hamstrung by the "skinny" blade propeller but later versions with the 4-blade paddle propeller were formidable. The top US aces in the European Theater all flew P-47s. The Achilles heel of the P-47 was range, even with drop tanks. When Mustangs pretty much took over bomber escort it freed up the Thunderbolts to do close air support and they absolutely shined in this role---having 8 machineguns helped immensely. In close air support the P-47s could trade fuel weight for bomb and rocket weight, and could deliver a lot of ordnance. There was a lot of P-47 in a P-47---it weighed about 2,800 lbs MORE than a Mustang, and all that beef, plus the aircooled engine being more indifferent to small arms fire than say a liquid cooled engine, made it a tough cookie.
Last point. With the G model's remote chin turret, head on attacks dimished rapidly.
The crash of the Model 299 prototype was the event that basically invented the checklist. They took off with their control locks still installed on the rudder and elevators.
Unfortunately I have never had the pleasure of experiencing a real B-17, but it was the 1st 4 engined bomber I ever made, back in the day when I was a model aircraft nut, I think it is still floating around somewhere at my parents home.
A friend’s uncle was a co-pilot in a B 24. He had to qualify in a B 17. He said the 24 was the box the 17 came in.
Germans called the 24 "the moving van"....its main claim to fame was the raid on Ploesti....
While the B-24 was slightly faster, had longer range and could carry a heavier payload, the Davis wing was more vulnerable to damage from enemy fire.
I really enjoy your historical videos! Perhaps you can cover the Bell P-39 & P-63 variants. Very unique Planes at the time with nose gear and other interesting configurations. Thanks for the great content!
I remember once reading a story somewhere of a B-17 flying itself and landing at it's home base after the entire crew bailed out thinking she was going down. The entire crew was surprised to see her sitting there waiting for them when they finally got back to base 3 days later
The section where the B17 bombers were used to bomb the V2 rocket sites remotely. Joe Kennedy Jr.,brother of John F. Kennedy, was a pilot on one of the B17's. The plane was loaded with over 24000 lbs of Vortex and just before the pilot and his engineer were due to bail out the plane exploded into a fireball. The explosion was witnessed by Col. Elliot Roosevelt, the son of the President.
My dad was top turret in the 94th. He said they didn’t wear their flak jackets all of the time. When the Flak was coming ground up, they sat on them. He also said the heated underwear was useless. He said the guys had a tendency to wet their pants and the shock was too much. Haha. He said when they weren’t fighting they would sit and wrap them around their hands and face. His crew flew 29 missions but then didn’t re-unite till the 1980’s. Only then did our mom and my siblings start to hear any stories. Dad was our hero and a true leader in our community. He died in 2009 and I miss him every day. Oh, dad was also a Pearl Harbor survivor. He enlisted about 9 months before Dec 7, 1941 and was at Wheeler Field, mechanic on a P36 that got airborne that day (#86). The Greatest Generation.
The head-on attack was why the "G" version, with the chin turret, was developed.
The Luftwaffe did the same thing with the JU88C6 only they left the shape of the nose the same as earlier versions they just put 3 Machine guns and a 20MM cannon where the bombardier sat then painted the nose to look like it still was still plexiglass form a distance to trick the soviets into a frontal attack. What a surprize for the unsuspecting fighter pilots that assumed it was a JU88A.
@@JUNKERS488 Yup, common-sense observations are not confined to "the good guys" over "the bad guys". Besides the obvious, war is "bad" because "they" are just as smart and just as motivated as you are.
My dad flew over 35 missions as a Ball Turret Gunner on hid B-17 called Big Dick. . He tore the blinds off the windows in his and moms bedroom many times because he wanted to bail out of his plane. As a youth I remember jumping on his back and trying to wake him. He said he saw friends planes go down.
Members of my family have been working for the Boeing corporation since the 1920's.
Some of them helped build B17 bombers and later B29 bombers. I have a Flight Jacket made for the 40th Anniversary in 1978. I also got to ride aboard "Sentimental Journey" too.
I knew all of these facts back then. I have many books, and photos from the 1930's 40's, and also of restored aircraft.
Members of my family still work for Boeing. I chose a career in the military instead.
If you had dug a little deeper into early B-17 development history, you would have learned that the crash of the 1st prototype on it's 2nd flight WAS NOT caused by "mechanical issues", or any other fault with the aircraft, but by PILOT ERROR! The pilot forgot to disengage the locking lever that locked the elevators in position while parked on the ground. That's why the USAAC was willing to order some for further testing and development.
Here's an eye-opening fact I learned in a book I'm currently reading: the fuselage of the B-17 was so thin that you could poke a screwdriver through it. No protection at all for the crew.
This is exactly how my Uncle was shot down. Head on well placed 20mm then a flack burst in radio compartment. Your animation software is excellent. I have not seen anyone else with the level of detail and accuracy that you have.
it warthunder dude, its a video game
@@netfox9855 thanks I check it out
I read that there were some B-17s on Midway Island during that battle. The US Navy had the nutty idea that high altitude bombing of enemy shipping would be a "thing" in the future. Well, the bombs never hit any Japanese ships because bombing a moving ship from high altitude is nearly impossible. The Japanese did report a shot-down B-17 trying to do a "kamikaze" maneuver into the bridge of a ship but failing. The Japanese were very impressed by the effort...
Actually the idea of Army Air Corps brass, piggybacking on Billy Mitchell's ideas. And yes, you are correct, they managed to hit absolutely nothing. There were NO B-17s lost at Midway though.
Something for the next video, 1. The B-17 was a derivative design, based on Boeing’s XB-15. A B-17 survived a mid air collision with a Bf 109 and flew back to its base and landed safely, and only broke into after the rear crew door was opened. An experimental gunship version YB-49 was produced and tested as a bomber escort. It was unsuccessful but the Bendix chin turret was used on the B-17G. A YB-40 was used to shoot down an Italian pilot who spoke perfect English flying a captured P-38 to shoot down damaged bomber stragglers. A nose art Drawing of the Gina Rossi (pilot’s wife lived in allied occupied Constantinople) with the name Gina was painted on the decoy bomber which was down to 3 engines and a straggler, baited Rossi (that and the pilot talking about how good Gina was in bed) made the pilot careless and was shot down. A B-17 had the only non-pilot ace, Ben Warner. The B-17 was so stable, one returned to England and dropped the landing gear and made a perfect landing with both Pilots and bombardier, already dead, only a semi-conscious side gunner survived the mission. An 8th USAAF mystery to this day. Tail-gunner Lincoln Broyhill, the most German jets shot down in a single mission and the most jets shot down by a gunner in World War 2. Due to Gen. MacArthur’s incompetence and 8 hour failure to attack the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese captured 3 B-17 in the Philippines, including the top secret Norden Bombsight. The Japanese made copies of the bombsight with improvements.
And as it turned out, the famous Norden bombsight wasn’t all that great… mostly clever marketing and propaganda.
@@Primus54 Better than what was previously available though, although the bombsight on the Doolittle Raid worked as well...
The problem with the YB-40 wasn't a function of any fault in the design, but was an inevitable feature of the redesign to make it a gunship, with a second upper turret where the radio operator's gun was, the chin turret later fitted to late-model B-17Fs and all the B-17Gs, and additional armor for the crew. The problem was that, while the YB-40 was perfectly capable of escorting boxes of B-17s to target, it retained all of its additional weight that the bombers lost with their bomb load gone, and was unable to keep up with the bomber formation when returning to base, which would make them stragglers, highly vulnerable to being swarmed by Luftwaffe fighters.
@@seanmalloy7249 The "Gina Rossi" Episode, confirmed that even with B-17s still carrying their bomb load, the YB-40, if it lost an engine to flak, couldn't keep up, and to maintain altitude to return to base, the crew would have to jettison all of its ammunition, all of its guns (half the armament had been jettisoned before Rossi had shown up). Fortunately the P-38 flown by pilot Rossi was intent on a frontal attack aimed at the pilot, and the top turrent, chin turret, shot up one of the Lightning's engines. Pilot Rossi survived ditching his plane, and the war. The pilot of the B-17 survived WW 2 only to die in a crash landing as a pilot during the Berlin airlift.
@@seanmalloy7249 Excellent point. Too bad engine technology (or manufacturing capacity) couldn’t keep up with airframe improvements.
My grandfather was not a tall man. That's how he became a belly gunner in the flying fortress, pacific theater. He lost his left leg below the knee... when a pontoon was dropped on him while unloading a freighter.
Of the five items reviewed, none addressed the most impressive thing a B17 could do. So the question is ... can a B17 be "backed" into its parking ramp stall under its own power ?
Answer: YES
While stationed in England with the 8th Army Air Corp, Captain Jack Head was attending a "meeting" in the officers club, where the matter of him being able to back his B17 into its ramp stall was discussed. Jack's co-pilot was the only officer to agree he could accomplish this maneuver. A round of wagers ensued. The following morning was a "stand-down day" for the flight crews due to weather. Jack, under the observation of numerous wagering participants, started the "outboard engines" of his plane (this is part of the maneuver). Once warmed up, Jack taxied the B17 perpendicular to his ramp stall, which was on the starboard side of the plane. Jack applied the right brake and power to the starboard outboard engine (note that because the outboard engines are outside the position of the main gear, when power is applied and the corresponding wheel is locked, the plane will pivot backwards approximately 4' in the direction of the locked wheel). By shifting the power and braking in an alternating method, Jack was able to not only back the plane, but could use the tail wheel to turn the plane in reverse taxi. Nobody actually knows how much money Jack and his co-pilot won over time, but what is known is that Jack and his co-pilot flew 30 combat missions and returned to the US, where Jack became a highly successful Cadillac dealer in Claremont, CA. He passed away in 2020. They don't make them like that any more ... hell ... they didn't make them like that back then.
I suppose I was lucky in a way. My dad taught B-17 navigators down in Hondo Texas in 1944-45 for runs over Europe. After V-E Day he transferred over to B25's and prepared to start the carpet bombing of Japan prior to the planned invasion. The two bombs changed that, VJ Day came and shortly after he was discharged. I was born 18 months later.
My father was a tail gunner in a B-17 in 1944 and 45. I got inside a full-size ready-to-fly display down in South Florida one year, but I couldn't get on for a ride. Which may have been a good thing cuz about a year later one of them went down with all hands lost!!
There was one B-17 crew that attempted to rectify the vulnerability of the 12 o'clock position. A fixed gun was added for the pilot to fire, along with additional guns for the waist gunners(basically every position had twin mounted 50cal machine guns) so that there was a total of 19 defensive guns rather than the normal 13. The crew were misfits and outcasts that salvaged a bomber that was being used to spare parts because no one wanted to fly it because superstitions as the tail number was 12666 and it would get "shot to hell" every time it flew. They took on a photo reconnaissance mission and as they finished they were jumped by about 15 Japanese fighters. 4 were downed by the pilot and bombardier. The then flew into each fighter making a pass to give the enemy the least amount of time to fire. This went on for almost an hour and the Japanese ran out of fuel. It was the single most decorated flight of any. The bombardier was KIA after returning to his guns and the pilot immediately collapsed on the controls after landing from exhaustion (he was initially presumed dead). The bombardier and pilot received the Metal of Honor, the rest received Distinguished Flying Crosses, and all received a Purple Heart.
Best Comment Here. Thanks for sharing.
My father was a ball turret gunner on a B-17. He was credited with one ME109 shot down. Their ship, the Blue Champagne was shot down on April 11, 1944. He was taken prisoner and spent the rest of the war in Stalag 17-B. They completed 23 combat missions. All 10 crew members bailed out and returned home after the war. I heard my Dad recount his war experiences many times.
Thanks for your reply, John. My Dad passed in 2006 at age 86. He was the oldest guy on the ship. He painted the nose art on his plane, known as the “Blue Champagne.” That was the name of a popular song of the period. His crew became operational on Christmas Eve, 1943. They were shot down over Stettin, Germany on April 11, 1944, on his 23rd mission. He was a talented artist and drew a lot of scenes of the P.O.W. camp. When he bailed out, he broke his arm and leg, due to the low altitude and had to wait for the Germans to come get him. He was with the 8th Air Force, 385 Bomber Group out of England. Hope this helps. My Dad was part of the Greatest Generation.
Ah yes the B-17 Flying Fortress. Arguably one of the most iconic planes in ww2!
The prototype of the B-17, model 299 crashed due to the pilot from the Army Air Force failing to complete the preflight checklist. Therefore he left the elevators and rudder LOCKED in position as was the correct position when on the ground to make sure wind would not move these surfaces. The Fortress I as the RAF termed the first B-17's were not accurate at bombing because they used the Sperry Bomb sight. It was later that the Norden Bomb sight came into use and proved to be VERY accurate compared to the Sperry. The head on attack was started against the B-17 E&F models. The chin turret was added to the B-17G model that corrected this weakness.
Since this is about history, some factual adjustments: 1. No multi engine aircraft starts all engines simultaneously. And aircraft engines, especially radial engines make delightful clouds of smoke upon starting. 2. The original B-17, and those caught in the attack at Pearl Harbor had a different tail that was used until the tail we all know began with the B-17E. 3. When an aircraft engine fails, the propeller is 'feathered' so the blade faces into the wind to reduce drag. 4. The Ball Turret in the belly is round.
Interesting stuff, and thank you for posting this. I saw further down the comments that Joe Kennedy, JFK's older brother, volunteered to pilot a drone and was killed on his mission. I first heard the story decades ago from a family friend, who flew fighter escort on several of the Operation A missions.
Flying a B-24 rather than a B-17
Indeed
@@robshirewood5060
Specifically the Navy version called the PB4Y-1.
But yea, he wasn't in a B17 as most people think, and technically he wasn't a part of Aphrodite either, the Navy's name of the program was called Anvil.
Great video. My grandfather flew in B-24's and B-17's out of England. He said the B-17 got all the glory but the B-24 deserved some love. He said pilots likened it to a "flying truck". Got a video like this about the B-24?
Something a lot of people really didn't know about the B-17:
The just-formed Israeli Air Force snuck 3 "demilitarized" B-17s into the country and used them to bomb Damascus in their war of independence.
The CIA also used B-17s in covert operations over Vietnam because it "didn't look like an American aircraft" -- a telling commentary on how much aircraft design had changed since WWII.
According to a book about the b17s history I read in high school, the peal harbor deliveries were piloted by women's army Air corps reservists, not male pilots as in the movie,. Also, they were unarmed and out of fuel to land anywhere else except a water landing short of the runway.
Dad was a tail gunner. He told me that several times they had to bail out over the English channel and be picked up so that the pilot could limp the heavily shot up B17 in for landing. His words were that the channel was DAMNED cold even in the summer.
During Point 3 it might have been worth mentioning that JFK's elder brother was killed flying one of the kamikaze B-17s when it exploded before the scheduled 2-man crew bail-out point.
Point 2 - Unlike most other aircraft of the day, the B-17 was built up from a keel, just like a ship would be.
You could literally shoot massive pieces of the fuselage away and the keel would hold the plane together where its heavy brethren would have long disintegrated from loss of structural integrity.
The head-on attack was exploited on earlier B-17. The only defense is the roof turrets. B-17 F added the cheek turrets, and the B-17G added the chin turret.
My uncle who was in the Army Air Corps was a co-pilot in a B-17 that flew bombing missions over Germany. The last flight the plane took on too much anti aircraft fire and was going to crash. The plane was over Germany and a small village. My uncle and pilot ordered every one to bail out. They were able to turn the plane away from the village and crashed into a wooded area. The three left in the plane were awarded the Congressional Medal Of Honor.
There is a lot more to the story that needs to be verified. The plane's name was Lady Janet
I was lucky enough to take a ride on one about a decade ago. It was a short but unforgettable flight.
my favorite b-17 story was the tail gunner that the tail got shot off completely and it still flew a glide and the guy survived but was extremely messed up and a monk or something saved him i cant remember...but its an amazing story
That was not a B-17. It was a British Halifax bomber. I read about the tail gunner you mentioned. He survived but had some bad injuries.
ok thanks it was neat as hell anyway i didn't mean to missinform...maybe it happened to both planes who knows fun to think about.....the ride bet had a pucker factor of 10+
anything i look up says it was a b17 and nowhere could i find a birtsh bomber have a tail broken off an glide down
@@larryray3178 there actually was an 8th AF B-17 that had its tail shot off. Due to the centrifugal force, the tail gunner was not able to escape his position, and rode the tail all the way down, expecting his demise. To his utter surprise, he walked away (more or less) from the wreckage. I do not recall if other members of his crew survived though.
@@robertheuer7670 you were indeed correct sir.
i normally dont like animation, but i like yours, your channel is the only animated channel that i will watch
On Black Thursday 60 B17s were lost. As bad as this was the numbers didn't change all that much even when attacking Berlin. We still lost around 10 percent of the bomber force sent out, be it 600 or 1000. That casualty count does not include airman injured or killed on aircraft that managed to return.
My uncle was a navigator on a B17 named Boomerang. He was killed on board by an attacking German plane on Feb 16 1943. The rest of crew managed to bail out and plane crashed in a lake near Molac, France. French people visited the plane before sinking and removed my uncle’s body for burial. He is now buried in St James France. In 2014 I visited the area. In a long story I met people who had seen the 1943 crash. The plane remains were removed from the lake in 1946. I have the report. I also have the part that works the bomb bay doors on his B17 gifted me by the Frenchman who found it in the lake 50 years ago. A moving story. Out of all the B17 shot down in Europe in WWII I have a part from the plane my uncle died on. Amazing.
The B25 learned from the B17. My dad flew a B25 in the Pacific Theater, which had 8 .50s in the nose. While we were once talking about bomber tactics to survive fighter attacks, my dad explained that if you were over the ocean, you could dive down and get 500 feet over the water. that prevented fighter from doing strafing runs. So I asked, well what about coming in level from the sides or rear. And once again, dad explained that the B17 we well equipped to defend itself in a situation like that. Finally, I said, well, what about coming directly head on, to which he replied, "Oh boy, if only!" lol
This is all so interesting! I would like to see articles about b-24 liberators and p-38 lightening as well.