Yup, I installed 2 in my room' and they reduced the 20Hz and 50Hz room mode standing wave decay from 1.1sec and 450ms to 400ms and 300ms. and completely eliminated the 36Hz null that I believe linked to those room modes. AVAA is expensive but in some applications like my tiny room, already treated with porous absorption it is nearly impossible to install extra things like Helmholtz resonator, modex plate to tackle those narrow band extreme sub low room modes. With AVAAs on, the low end is much tighter and clearer with those lingering sound pressure reduced to the level of not masking each transient. But seriously though, if the studio space allows for other acoustic treatments to treat those really low low-end, it would be much cheaper to go with meters-deep porous absorption plus resonator/membrane traps to achieve the same result or even better result and they are passive, so not drawing extra power or someday it doesn't work because the power supply is dead..etc.
Great video thanks Kristian! My purpose-built studio has 1 meter thick rockwool traps plus tuned bass traps and the frequency response is within 1.5dB accuracy from 100hz down to 40hz. Problems are 3.5dB null at 120hz and 4dB peak around 250hz, the rest of the frequency response is accurate within 2dB but I was thinking about getting these AVAA active bass traps to target the problem frequencies. Very interesting that AVAA only really affect 100hz downwards in your rooms... so I guess it may not be so beneficial in my situation. Perhaps money is better spent on a Trinnov system...?
From an acoustician point view, this video is simply amazing. Everything that is required to be able to start critical listening in a room is said! Thanks for that
Awesome video. This isn't standart demo type video it's also really helpful to all bedroom producers, who just bought monitors and expects linear response...
I might be under thinking it, but it seems like if you want to target extremely low frequency build up like this, a tuned helmholtz resonator bass trap would be more cost effective and wouldn't take up a ton of space. There are a few vendors that offer them commercially and they're all cheaper (and passive) than these. I have a lot of trapping in my room, and I've got most of the acoustics under control now. I spent less on my Genelec SAM monitors and all the (DIY and commercial) bass trapping in my room than 2 of these units. The video was still really interesting though, I would have loved to have seen this when I first started going down the rabbit hole of room acoustics.
Hey Christian, you did it and you nailed it. At first I was really disappointed from my 2 AVAs, but finally we got friends, because what they do to the lows on the timeline is unreached - but unfortunately for most of us way out of financial reach :-(
I just built my self a vocal booth and even though I'm recording with an SM7B, it makes such a huge difference. My vocal takes are so much easier to get right when it comes to the mixing stage.
Incredibly detailed and well done Kristian. Super nerdy audio stuff -- love it. I had GIK Acoustics help me with my tracking room and mixing room and laid out the cash for their treatment materials. I'm gonna get the RoomEQWizard software and spend a day testing. Thanks again.
Interesting tech I'm in the early stages of treating my 11' x 13' x 8' ceiling basement studio. I built 6 2'x4'x4" deep OC703 panels a while ago and am about to go the measurement route with REW to see where to go next. I've been thinking corner traps all the way around - I should probably be smart and just start doing measurements before I start building but I know the room needs it. Something like this device could perhaps be the icing on the cake when I'm done with "regular" room treatment. 6k is steep though. It will be cool to hopefully see this tech evolve!
I'm very impressed that they actually work. However I think the most valuable part of the video is how to tune your room. This allows home studio people to do a little of what the professional acoustic technicians can do.
Man! cant afford it right now but i’m excited for the future! Im sure that just like how autotune was underwater exploration algorithms, this one is based on ocean wave energy absorption research. As always, very informative video sir! Cheers! 🎉🎉🎉
Hey Kohle, very good video. The Information here given are priceless. Not only that you talk about this way too often overlooked topic, but also that you show how to handle this problem. However there a a few things I like to point out in regards to the AVAA. 1. Although the results of the AVAA seem quite impressive at first glance, it would be interesting to see them compared to a traditional bass trap. 2. Given a price of 2.5k ( for one AVAA!) I'm pretty sure it would be possible to build a passive Bass trap acustomed to your room with even better results. (Which you, Kohle, practically gave us the instructions for, by showing us how to measure a room acoustically :) ).
Thanks!🤘 Of course you can achieve the same thing with passive basstraps. If we’re talking 50hz it’s gonna eat up a lot of space and will be very difficult though.
Holy Kohle engineer there haha! Really well explained and It's cool that you went into more in detail about the capture you made. But would moving the speaker higher like that be not optimal for listening position etc. I'll definitely keep that in mind in my future studio room for sure :) Thanks again for the great content!!
they are around for quite some time, they are not exactly new. they work really good in poorly treated rooms, but they can make your bass response worse in rooms that have good acoustic treatment.
Awesome, was hoping to see this after the Studioszene video! As someone with an untreated small garage/mancave studio setup I definitely need some compact solutions (and more acoustics lessons). Perhaps a little on the pricey end for most bedroom producers, it would be hard to not spend that budget on all the sexier gear and some headphones. 😜
The reason the AVAAs didn't do anything over ~100Hz is that they're basically subwoofers that react to a microphone rather than an input. They actually seemed to do less than i would have expected, but that room WAS really small. The cool thing is that if you can deal with the crossovers and timing, you can get very similar results with precise placement of multiple subwoofers. It's a bit more complex to set up, but the results can be even better. GiK has an article about it. Oddly enough, it's something the whole studio world seems to ignore. The home theater world is pretty far ahead in that one thing.
Ugh… 20+ years of home audio design and install. If I could teach one thing it would be this!!!! Great breakdown. Ugh I need to break down and get the classes! Time to chat with the financial manager (see: Wife Unit)
9:15: Oder, die Ausnuechterungszelle fuer den Bassisten!!! Zum Thema, was in meinem Raum richtig effektiv ist: Polster der Gartenmoebel hinter die Bassreflex-Oeffnung, am besten an die Wand haengen und etwas Abstand lassen.
Interestng technology. Nice to see how you proceed and also what to check when you are setuping a room. Do you do this just for the bass or are you also looking at other frequencies as well when setuping a studio and speaker location? You can add absorbant material etc. But when do you stop, and when do you know your setup is optimal? Imind if this active bass trap technology is a similar technology to what is used in car habitacle to reduce ambiant/road noises. Or for noise reduction in some headphones.. I understood the active noise reduction would be emiting some frequency to cancel/ phase out some ambiant noise you don't want or need to hear. It might work the same way.
Excellent...6-8db of low end trouble removed by the force for $$$$ great information my master i will use this information wisely.....and told grandma hi
Nice little thing. I had to build a custom wardrobe in my "office" - full height, over 1,5 wide. Filled with clothes - works like charm for the lowest resonance freq (of course I had to put more acoustic treatment).
@@KohleAudioKult it wasn't easy. It was a lot of measurements and counting. I also have custom low-mid (upper-lows) trap and midrange absorbers on the back wall. Plus whole front wall is covered with sintetic granulate topped up with cork. But the wardrobe was crucial for the low-lows (sliding doors have to be 2" opened for best results).
I could be wrong but I learned that 1 hertz equals 1 foot. High frequency has longer wavelengths. That's why sirens are high pitched and not low pitched. Because they physically travel farther through time space meaning they are more audible over a greater distance.
You need to consider harmonics too. Let's say you have a standing wave at your room size, You will have another one at double that frequency. You get all kinds of complex interactions.
I really enjoyed this video! Especially following the train of thought regarding how to treat room response, a field where I have zero experience. I knew REW, and actually I'm about to use it in a huge room lent to me that sounds kind of ok: far from the city rumble, recently treated with rock wool all over, having non-parallel walls and ceiling/floor, unfortunately with tiles on the floor. There's no bass buildup as far as I experienced, I'm not yet sure about dips, but it would be one of the candidate case scenarios you mentioned to use this product.
It would be a dream, if you have a very large field/desert with no hard boundaries anywhere near, zero wind, zero noise, zero animals, comfortable weather, etc... So... Probably not very doable!
It would seem as the AVAA's listen to the low-end frequency generated by the monitor out into a room, the AVAA's manage the low end (in the room) using something like gate technology with auto release and hold and takes advantage of phase for methodical cancelation by reintroducing the same frequencies back into the room it analyzed, thus reducing ring or resonance via the time domain. Think of stereo that is out of phase, walk to the center of the room, and bam, the low end is gone, walk to either speaker, and the low end is there. Am I wrong, perhaps, this is just an observation... but if so, the technology would be worth the asking price.
They came up with the concept together with a Swiss university after a lot of research from what I know. I'm pretty sure, the concept is not rocket science, but making it actually work is pretty tough nevertheless.
Actually the concept is a bit harder to grasp, it is not quite noise cancellation as there is no "counter frequency" or sound exposed to the room. Mainly it works through pressure. There was an interesting video by PSI about how it works exactly. But it is not noise cancellation.
I wonder if you can hear them while listening or mixing and maybe move around a little. Because it is some kind of noise cancelation there has to be (very) slight delay. Noise cancelation on Headphones make me sick... seriously i get a very weird claustrophobic feeling from them. I can't define it but it is some ringing and noise i notice slightly and my Head says there is something wrong lets bother the stomach. Have you tested it for a few hours mixing or easy listening?
I haven’t had any problems with them. The only thing I noticed is some sort of feedback if you carry them around (while turned on). But no problems in normal use
@@JesterDyne Hi Jester, it isn't noise cancellation, there's no "counter frequency" send to the room. It works more based on air pressure. There's almost no delay, as this is 100% analog and the pressure gradient mic analyzing the wave is as close as physical possible to the driver's membrane. There's an interesting video by Schoeps Mikroforum, where PSI is explaining exactly how this is possible.
@@JesterDyne no, the „driver“ i meant a speaker that works like a membrane and lowering the incoming pressure. Here it is explained by PSI in detail, that‘s the Video I meant: th-cam.com/video/fw2Oj7QB0FQ/w-d-xo.html
I wonder how these compare with Dirac Live, which also compensates in the time domain. Would also be great to get your view on mixing with headphones a la Andrew Scheps.
Cool and interesting video! Thanks for the software tipp! I know what i will do the next days… 😅. For me are 2500€ to much, also when it‘s better to get 2 of them. I think there can be better results with other bass traps for less, spezial at the upper bass range. I have to check how low the (maybe) problem(s) are.
Maybe you got that wrong. I was saying that 2 AVAAs are doing more than one (and I'm sure a third and fourth one will do even more). BUT: The first one will have a lot more effect.
@@KohleAudioKult yes, u‘re right. I see the results of 1- and it‘s good, don‘t missunderstand. But the room messure software tipp will be very usefull for me. I have to look, if the (maybe) problem is so low or even higher. Thanks!
It's an overpriced noise cancellation based gimmick. It actively records low end and spits out sound in opposite phase, praying for the best maybe you get some positive results, but as you measured, the results are pretty random. If not tuned/placed ideally it creates more issues than benefits. Like the ones you noticed in higher low end. I also notice in most cases it just ''moves'' the issue to a slightly higher frequency which can be seen in your measurements as well. The dips are still huge and the room will still sound bad.
Dunno... Some folks are getting impressive results and happiness with this. "Moving" a 50 Hz problem upward could be an ok thing, as the higher up frequencies are so much easier to deal with it. And AVAA of course won't make a room sound great, it has to be a part of a whole acoustic treatment system. Interested to search for more user experiences - sure the promise of this product is huge. Any recommendations on videos etc?
cant wait for behringer to make this and sell it for 3 bucks and a middle finger from Uli (but in seriousness its a cool product, but christ its a tad out of my range price wise)
Looking at those results I have to say I'm not that impressed. Decrease one frequency by about 6 Db ant shorten the reverb time a little for about $6000 isn't really that impressive. Thinking about my size listening room about 4500 cubic feet I would need at least 4 or more of them. And then what happens in the really low end region let's say if you go down to about 20 HZ. Think about it most of us are using subwoofers. What happens in that region?
Passive treatment is definitely more cost effective (especially if you can build it yourself), but a lot of it comes down to space constraints and practicality. For example, a passive absorber would need to be ~34" thick in order to effectively treat a standing wave at 50hz. Yes, Helmholtz and other tuned absorbers can do a more effective job of targeting a specific frequency (than broadband passive basstraps), but they aren't necessarily small in terms of space requirements.. and since most home/DIY spaces have more than one low frequency issue, it can become just as problematic to attempt positioning of multiple tuned absorbers. These things are roughly the size of a small PA speaker / stage monitor with the official claim being: "as efficient as passive absorbers 25 times its size, the AVAA C20 typically reduces the resonance time of all room modes between 15 Hz and 150 Hz by up to 50%". Definitely expensive though. I have 2 of them in a room that already has extensive bass trapping / passive absorption, and a Trinnov. They were the last piece to get the Sub-range decay time more even with the rest of the frequency range.
@@stringsdiezel I paid for GIK panels. Big money… but they will never have any maintenance or repair issues and in 20 years the cost will be wayyyyy more. Also, I can take them to my next room/studio
I just hear it for the first time ever - i mean i NEVER heard about it bevor. And i was like WTF lets check it out.. and yeah. I have to say - there is absolutly NO WAY i can get my hands on that product exept i win the jackpot.. and yes - i do recognize that threatment is much more expensive than this device.. but.. how much do i have to pay for a "good" sound? When does it start to fuck of the whole FUN of all? I mean - yes you realy can do some awsome stuff - but is it worth it in the end? To me - no one ever listen to my fucking musik no one cares about it. No one realy recognize me and the only way to get my musik is by soundcloud becourse i have no money to get money. And how much do i need to invest? 2000€ ? 5.000€ - how much is it i have to spent to get to a good result? The answer is - there is never enogh! Becourse everyone wants my money! And that is the f... case. Yes it sounds better but - it cost around 2000€ !!!!! That is just a thing - 200€ yes that would be worth the money, but 2000€ in a world finance Crisis? Realy?? That product - it is realy nice for shure - WILL BE LOST IN TIME becourse no one can pay it. And thats a fucking truth that is beyond all testings is just reality. People pay for bills that are more important and if they do - THEY DONT GET THE MONEY TO SPENT 2000 € in this type of product. Even if it is 10000times worth the money. And thats the truth i hate to say.. only 45 people around the world can pay for it. And that makes it just useless sorry..
How do you like the AVAA? something for you? How do you treat the low end in YOUR studio?
Would love to try this!
Yup, I installed 2 in my room' and they reduced the 20Hz and 50Hz room mode standing wave decay from 1.1sec and 450ms to 400ms and 300ms. and completely eliminated the 36Hz null that I believe linked to those room modes.
AVAA is expensive but in some applications like my tiny room, already treated with porous absorption it is nearly impossible to install extra things like Helmholtz resonator, modex plate to tackle those narrow band extreme sub low room modes.
With AVAAs on, the low end is much tighter and clearer with those lingering sound pressure reduced to the level of not masking each transient.
But seriously though, if the studio space allows for other acoustic treatments to treat those really low low-end, it would be much cheaper to go with meters-deep porous absorption plus resonator/membrane traps to achieve the same result or even better result and they are passive, so not drawing extra power or someday it doesn't work because the power supply is dead..etc.
Great video thanks Kristian! My purpose-built studio has 1 meter thick rockwool traps plus tuned bass traps and the frequency response is within 1.5dB accuracy from 100hz down to 40hz. Problems are 3.5dB null at 120hz and 4dB peak around 250hz, the rest of the frequency response is accurate within 2dB but I was thinking about getting these AVAA active bass traps to target the problem frequencies. Very interesting that AVAA only really affect 100hz downwards in your rooms... so I guess it may not be so beneficial in my situation. Perhaps money is better spent on a Trinnov system...?
@@Producelikeapro I'm sure an AVAA would be great for your new video studio!
🤯
From an acoustician point view, this video is simply amazing. Everything that is required to be able to start critical listening in a room is said! Thanks for that
Better watch this video then. Room acoustics are black magic to me.
Would have loved to see the REW outputs from your treated room for comparison
Or a comparison to simple bass traps that are not active.
Marvellous video Kristian and a very important topic!
Awesome video. This isn't standart demo type video it's also really helpful to all bedroom producers, who just bought monitors and expects linear response...
Great work here in showing the entire process.
I might be under thinking it, but it seems like if you want to target extremely low frequency build up like this, a tuned helmholtz resonator bass trap would be more cost effective and wouldn't take up a ton of space. There are a few vendors that offer them commercially and they're all cheaper (and passive) than these. I have a lot of trapping in my room, and I've got most of the acoustics under control now. I spent less on my Genelec SAM monitors and all the (DIY and commercial) bass trapping in my room than 2 of these units.
The video was still really interesting though, I would have loved to have seen this when I first started going down the rabbit hole of room acoustics.
Hey Christian, you did it and you nailed it. At first I was really disappointed from my 2 AVAs, but finally we got friends, because what they do to the lows on the timeline is unreached - but unfortunately for most of us way out of financial reach :-(
So you had the same experience? Mostly effective in the low lows?
Excellent video explaining the basics of acoustic measurement!
I just built my self a vocal booth and even though I'm recording with an SM7B, it makes such a huge difference. My vocal takes are so much easier to get right when it comes to the mixing stage.
Incredibly detailed and well done Kristian. Super nerdy audio stuff -- love it. I had GIK Acoustics help me with my tracking room and mixing room and laid out the cash for their treatment materials. I'm gonna get the RoomEQWizard software and spend a day testing. Thanks again.
really smart and practical video! Thank you for your efforts on this one.
Really enjoyed this vid, more so on how you placed your speakers, etc, than the AVAA’s specifically.
Just in case you were curious. The product page literally states it works from 15Hz to 150Hz
Yes! But it does not seem to do much above 100!
@@KohleAudioKult likely because its energy if rolling off. another 50Hz is only half the octave of 100Hz, so I doubt there is MUCH happening.
Interesting tech
I'm in the early stages of treating my 11' x 13' x 8' ceiling basement studio. I built 6 2'x4'x4" deep OC703 panels a while ago and am about to go the measurement route with REW to see where to go next. I've been thinking corner traps all the way around - I should probably be smart and just start doing measurements before I start building but I know the room needs it. Something like this device could perhaps be the icing on the cake when I'm done with "regular" room treatment. 6k is steep though. It will be cool to hopefully see this tech evolve!
I'm very impressed that they actually work. However I think the most valuable part of the video is how to tune your room. This allows home studio people to do a little of what the professional acoustic technicians can do.
MOTU - Mark of The Unicorn 😂You said that while having a painting of a unicorn behind you
Man! cant afford it right now but i’m excited for the future! Im sure that just like how autotune was underwater exploration algorithms, this one is based on ocean wave energy absorption research. As always, very informative video sir! Cheers! 🎉🎉🎉
Hey Kohle, very good video. The Information here given are priceless. Not only that you talk about this way too often overlooked topic, but also that you show how to handle this problem. However there a a few things I like to point out in regards to the AVAA.
1. Although the results of the AVAA seem quite impressive at first glance, it would be interesting to see them compared to a traditional bass trap.
2. Given a price of 2.5k ( for one AVAA!) I'm pretty sure it would be possible to build a passive Bass trap acustomed to your room with even better results. (Which you, Kohle, practically gave us the instructions for, by showing us how to measure a room acoustically :) ).
Thanks!🤘
Of course you can achieve the same thing with passive basstraps.
If we’re talking 50hz it’s gonna eat up a lot of space and will be very difficult though.
Holy Kohle engineer there haha! Really well explained and It's cool that you went into more in detail about the capture you made. But would moving the speaker higher like that be not optimal for listening position etc. I'll definitely keep that in mind in my future studio room for sure :) Thanks again for the great content!!
Cool, I was sure the secret was the watch cap, and the soul selling thing, of course. Very nice video!
they are around for quite some time, they are not exactly new. they work really good in poorly treated rooms, but they can make your bass response worse in rooms that have good acoustic treatment.
Lovely! just as I'm setting up a new home studio
I use four 8" subwoofers and DSP to time align them. No problems in my room. Flat down to 22 hz, -3 db at 18 hz.
Sounds like a well treated room
@@aZeee it is, but for low frequencies, you can fix standing waves with multiple subs.
I would like to see the result of that. I find this hard to believe
@@mrmadame28 I guess I can upload it to dropbox or something.
Yes please!
Awesome video! Thanks Kohle!!
i will wait for the price to go down a bit. interesting point of view. interesting. thank you
Awesome, was hoping to see this after the Studioszene video! As someone with an untreated small garage/mancave studio setup I definitely need some compact solutions (and more acoustics lessons).
Perhaps a little on the pricey end for most bedroom producers, it would be hard to not spend that budget on all the sexier gear and some headphones. 😜
Don't buy this... fix your room.
@@morbidmanmusic Oh I intend to. At €2.5k per speaker i'm in no rush.... there are more urgent basic sound treatments that I need to address first. 😉
Golden Tips, thank you Kohle!!! 🤟🤟
The reason the AVAAs didn't do anything over ~100Hz is that they're basically subwoofers that react to a microphone rather than an input. They actually seemed to do less than i would have expected, but that room WAS really small.
The cool thing is that if you can deal with the crossovers and timing, you can get very similar results with precise placement of multiple subwoofers. It's a bit more complex to set up, but the results can be even better. GiK has an article about it.
Oddly enough, it's something the whole studio world seems to ignore. The home theater world is pretty far ahead in that one thing.
thank you, great video!
Thanks for this. Educated me today.
Ugh… 20+ years of home audio design and install. If I could teach one thing it would be this!!!! Great breakdown. Ugh I need to break down and get the classes! Time to chat with the financial manager (see: Wife Unit)
Haha! Thanks
Thank you so much for the video, it makes it is clear that for that price there is a better spend of money
9:15: Oder, die Ausnuechterungszelle fuer den Bassisten!!! Zum Thema, was in meinem Raum richtig effektiv ist: Polster der Gartenmoebel hinter die Bassreflex-Oeffnung, am besten an die Wand haengen und etwas Abstand lassen.
Interestng technology. Nice to see how you proceed and also what to check when you are setuping a room. Do you do this just for the bass or are you also looking at other frequencies as well when setuping a studio and speaker location? You can add absorbant material etc. But when do you stop, and when do you know your setup is optimal?
Imind if this active bass trap technology is a similar technology to what is used in car habitacle to reduce ambiant/road noises. Or for noise reduction in some headphones.. I understood the active noise reduction would be emiting some frequency to cancel/ phase out some ambiant noise you don't want or need to hear. It might work the same way.
Excellent...6-8db of low end trouble removed by the force for $$$$ great information my master i will use this information wisely.....and told grandma hi
Haha! Thanks!
@@KohleAudioKult hope made you smile...
I wonder how that'd work in room already "corrected" by Sonarworks...! Anybody tried that?
Nice little thing. I had to build a custom wardrobe in my "office" - full height, over 1,5 wide. Filled with clothes - works like charm for the lowest resonance freq (of course I had to put more acoustic treatment).
I would love it to be that easy!
@@KohleAudioKult it wasn't easy. It was a lot of measurements and counting. I also have custom low-mid (upper-lows) trap and midrange absorbers on the back wall. Plus whole front wall is covered with sintetic granulate topped up with cork. But the wardrobe was crucial for the low-lows (sliding doors have to be 2" opened for best results).
MOTU, Mark Of The Unicorn - I'm sorry, it's the first time I hear this ad I find it genius
Excellent video.
I could be wrong but I learned that 1 hertz equals 1 foot. High frequency has longer wavelengths. That's why sirens are high pitched and not low pitched. Because they physically travel farther through time space meaning they are more audible over a greater distance.
The lower the frequency, the longer the wave!
@@KohleAudioKult My audio teacher is a LIAR!!! lol
You need to consider harmonics too. Let's say you have a standing wave at your room size, You will have another one at double that frequency. You get all kinds of complex interactions.
I really enjoyed this video! Especially following the train of thought regarding how to treat room response, a field where I have zero experience.
I knew REW, and actually I'm about to use it in a huge room lent to me that sounds kind of ok: far from the city rumble, recently treated with rock wool all over, having non-parallel walls and ceiling/floor, unfortunately with tiles on the floor.
There's no bass buildup as far as I experienced, I'm not yet sure about dips, but it would be one of the candidate case scenarios you mentioned to use this product.
Thanks!
You can’t really tell until you have seen the measurements! It’s a long journey, but it’s worth it!
Hallo Kristian, would you please tell us when are you going to release the FLEISCH EQ pedal ?!
What about mixing outside ? Would that work?
It would be a dream, if you have a very large field/desert with no hard boundaries anywhere near, zero wind, zero noise, zero animals, comfortable weather, etc... So... Probably not very doable!
At least you get rid of the reflections. There might be other annoying things like....the weather? ;)
...and live as well!! AVAA
Awesome! What do you think about the mackies ? I had monitors much more expensive but for me, they sound so flat. Do you agree?
I have the Hr 624
My Eves and Amphions are way better, but of course also way more expensive.
My Mackies seem to be pretty flay as well.
Great vid 🏆 thanks
It would seem as the AVAA's listen to the low-end frequency generated by the monitor out into a room, the AVAA's manage the low end (in the room) using something like gate technology with auto release and hold and takes advantage of phase for methodical cancelation by reintroducing the same frequencies back into the room it analyzed, thus reducing ring or resonance via the time domain. Think of stereo that is out of phase, walk to the center of the room, and bam, the low end is gone, walk to either speaker, and the low end is there. Am I wrong, perhaps, this is just an observation... but if so, the technology would be worth the asking price.
They came up with the concept together with a Swiss university after a lot of research from what I know.
I'm pretty sure, the concept is not rocket science, but making it actually work is pretty tough nevertheless.
Actually the concept is a bit harder to grasp, it is not quite noise cancellation as there is no "counter frequency" or sound exposed to the room. Mainly it works through pressure. There was an interesting video by PSI about how it works exactly. But it is not noise cancellation.
Did you listen to music with the AVAAs on ? Demo of it would have been good.
Kohle, what do you think of Dolby Atmos? Overrated? Way of the future?
It’s very interesting. That’s all I can say right now!
But is this effective in a normal size or larger size “bedroom” ?
It's rather small!
I wonder if you can hear them while listening or mixing and maybe move around a little.
Because it is some kind of noise cancelation there has to be (very) slight delay.
Noise cancelation on Headphones make me sick... seriously i get a very weird claustrophobic feeling from them.
I can't define it but it is some ringing and noise i notice slightly and my Head says there is something wrong lets bother the stomach.
Have you tested it for a few hours mixing or easy listening?
I haven’t had any problems with them.
The only thing I noticed is some sort of feedback if you carry them around (while turned on).
But no problems in normal use
@@KohleAudioKult There must be some kind of system not to cancel out its own "counter wave"?
I wonder how they managed this. Really interesting.
@@JesterDyne Hi Jester, it isn't noise cancellation, there's no "counter frequency" send to the room. It works more based on air pressure. There's almost no delay, as this is 100% analog and the pressure gradient mic analyzing the wave is as close as physical possible to the driver's membrane. There's an interesting video by Schoeps Mikroforum, where PSI is explaining exactly how this is possible.
@@jangrimmmastering Interesting but "a Driver" means it put out some pressure... I look that Video up. Or do you have me a Link?
@@JesterDyne no, the „driver“ i meant a speaker that works like a membrane and lowering the incoming pressure.
Here it is explained by PSI in detail, that‘s the Video I meant: th-cam.com/video/fw2Oj7QB0FQ/w-d-xo.html
I wonder how these compare with Dirac Live, which also compensates in the time domain. Would also be great to get your view on mixing with headphones a la Andrew Scheps.
I gotta do my homework there. Don't even know what Dirac Live is.
Cool and interesting video! Thanks for the software tipp! I know what i will do the next days… 😅.
For me are 2500€ to much, also when it‘s better to get 2 of them. I think there can be better results with other bass traps for less, spezial at the upper bass range.
I have to check how low the (maybe) problem(s) are.
Maybe you got that wrong. I was saying that 2 AVAAs are doing more than one (and I'm sure a third and fourth one will do even more).
BUT: The first one will have a lot more effect.
@@KohleAudioKult yes, u‘re right. I see the results of 1- and it‘s good, don‘t missunderstand. But the room messure software tipp will be very usefull for me. I have to look, if the (maybe) problem is so low or even higher. Thanks!
I could imagine these being more effective close to the mic than in the corner
Nope. They need to be where the bass adds up, not close to the listening position
It's an overpriced noise cancellation based gimmick. It actively records low end and spits out sound in opposite phase, praying for the best maybe you get some positive results, but as you measured, the results are pretty random. If not tuned/placed ideally it creates more issues than benefits. Like the ones you noticed in higher low end. I also notice in most cases it just ''moves'' the issue to a slightly higher frequency which can be seen in your measurements as well. The dips are still huge and the room will still sound bad.
Dunno... Some folks are getting impressive results and happiness with this. "Moving" a 50 Hz problem upward could be an ok thing, as the higher up frequencies are so much easier to deal with it. And AVAA of course won't make a room sound great, it has to be a part of a whole acoustic treatment system. Interested to search for more user experiences - sure the promise of this product is huge. Any recommendations on videos etc?
what happened to fhe amphion?
As I suspected when you were talking to these guys at that music show and set to test this, don't look worth the money at all. Thx for the review.
Bag End has an active bass trap
I thought PSI was first, but Bag End has been out for ages!
@@dougleydorite yep
cant wait for behringer to make this and sell it for 3 bucks and a middle finger from Uli
(but in seriousness its a cool product, but christ its a tad out of my range price wise)
no shit, i really get excellent results with my beyerdynamic dt 990s - fact
My grandma says to say hi back.
finally! 🤩
Nice video. You can correct the bass in your room all the way down to 20hz or less with subwoofers.
But you can’t correct the response of your room with a subwoofer. That’s what we’re talking about here.
@@KohleAudioKult you can have smooth (balanced) bass response using 2 or more subwoofers if they are positioned properly.
Looking at those results I have to say I'm not that impressed. Decrease one frequency by about 6 Db ant shorten the reverb time a little for about $6000 isn't really that impressive. Thinking about my size listening room about 4500 cubic feet I would need at least 4 or more of them. And then what happens in the really low end region let's say if you go down to about 20 HZ. Think about it most of us are using subwoofers. What happens in that region?
Cool idea but oof, at that price point for a pair you can get a LOT of material acoustic treatment.
That’s the route I went..
Passive treatment is definitely more cost effective (especially if you can build it yourself), but a lot of it comes down to space constraints and practicality.
For example, a passive absorber would need to be ~34" thick in order to effectively treat a standing wave at 50hz.
Yes, Helmholtz and other tuned absorbers can do a more effective job of targeting a specific frequency (than broadband passive basstraps), but they aren't necessarily small in terms of space requirements.. and since most home/DIY spaces have more than one low frequency issue, it can become just as problematic to attempt positioning of multiple tuned absorbers.
These things are roughly the size of a small PA speaker / stage monitor with the official claim being: "as efficient as passive absorbers 25 times its size, the AVAA C20 typically reduces the resonance time of all room modes between 15 Hz and 150 Hz by up to 50%". Definitely expensive though.
I have 2 of them in a room that already has extensive bass trapping / passive absorption, and a Trinnov. They were the last piece to get the Sub-range decay time more even with the rest of the frequency range.
@@stringsdiezel I paid for GIK panels. Big money… but they will never have any maintenance or repair issues and in 20 years the cost will be wayyyyy more. Also, I can take them to my next room/studio
Not at that price lol.. Seems like a legit product.. I'm not at that level yet..
These Mackies arn't good, omg what about my Mackie 824's lol aaaaargh!
I just hear it for the first time ever - i mean i NEVER heard about it bevor. And i was like WTF lets check it out.. and yeah. I have to say - there is absolutly NO WAY i can get my hands on that product exept i win the jackpot.. and yes - i do recognize that threatment is much more expensive than this device.. but.. how much do i have to pay for a "good" sound? When does it start to fuck of the whole FUN of all? I mean - yes you realy can do some awsome stuff - but is it worth it in the end? To me - no one ever listen to my fucking musik no one cares about it. No one realy recognize me and the only way to get my musik is by soundcloud becourse i have no money to get money. And how much do i need to invest? 2000€ ? 5.000€ - how much is it i have to spent to get to a good result? The answer is - there is never enogh! Becourse everyone wants my money! And that is the f... case. Yes it sounds better but - it cost around 2000€ !!!!! That is just a thing - 200€ yes that would be worth the money, but 2000€ in a world finance Crisis? Realy?? That product - it is realy nice for shure - WILL BE LOST IN TIME becourse no one can pay it. And thats a fucking truth that is beyond all testings is just reality. People pay for bills that are more important and if they do - THEY DONT GET THE MONEY TO SPENT 2000 € in this type of product. Even if it is 10000times worth the money. And thats the truth i hate to say.. only 45 people around the world can pay for it. And that makes it just useless sorry..
Did you say Ava? Ex Machina.
Not impressed with these results, to be honest.
From the graphs, it seems like they maybe work, but barely.
Very disappointing for 5000 Bucks.
Awesome concept, but man. I just cannot bring myself to drop $2500 on a fucking bass trap lol
Lol $2400 on this vs $1200 on GIK tri traps
Or you can use headphones.
What do I know, the only thing I mix is milk on cereal. Poorly also.