Sonic Forces feels like Sega said, “Fuck It!” and added a ton of elements from other Sonic games without really taking the time to flesh them out, and that’s why it feels so unremarkably empty.
Sega headquartered 2014: Iizuka: ah yes we finally we finished developing sonic lost world I’m certain that the game will be a huge success oh and big red button is also developing sonic boom rise of lyric next year is gonna be a big year for sonic 1 year later Iizuka: oh no, no one liked sonic lost world and sonic boom rise of lyric was a failure A random sega employee: sir we are ready to start development on the next sonic game we we’re thinking of adding new mechani- Iizuka: No! We are not gonna risk it we need to bring back old mechanics Another random sega employee: I know sonic colors was a huge success we should bring back wisps also sonic fans love making OC’s on Devian art we should add that as a feature Iizuka: that is genius The first random sega employee: sir wouldn’t it be better to try new things Iizuka: shut up your fired, With all of these new mechanics I’m certain that the next sonic game will be a huge success Sega employee: but sir you all ready said tha Iizuka: what did I tell you pack your stuff and leave now.
"Continuity Snarl: Classic Sonic is portrayed as an alternate universe counterpart to Modern Sonic, rather than being his time-displaced younger self like Generations portrayed him as. According to This example contains a TRIVIA entry. It should be moved to the TRIVIA tab.Word of Dante, this is because SEGA of Japan mandated that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic be separated characters altogether rather than from different times." - tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/SonicForces I wonder how much of this video's complaints were directly SEGA's fault, instead of the devs. Not to mention the dubbing. SEGA: "No, they are now completely separate characters." Writer(s?): "The F&CK?" Actually, it might have *been better* if SEGA said "fuck it" and let the devs do their jobs.
@@Bezaliel13 If the next few sonic game fail in 2021 (the 30th anniversary mind you) then sega should have no choice but to give up on sonic completely and it will be THEIR FAULT for the franchise's death. And then yuji naka and naoto oshima will be laughing at the company and how they failed the series (even though naka is the reason for sonic's 15th anniversary being a dumpster fire. He couldn't have been bothered to stay with sega until 06 was done? I understand he wanted to move on but come on. Naka is also the reason sonic xtreme very got any support and ultimately cancelled).
@@AutZentus Unless it is a "Marvel comics" situation, where canon is not their main source of income, so they would not really care how harmful their restrictions are.
The only thing I like about sonic forces is the music and the avatar u can dress them up with the right outfits and species made a couple that looks great well most people's avatars are creepy un-organized,
This game literally checks all the boxes of a 12 year old's Sonic fanfiction. -Self-insert OC -Characters added for no reason other than for them to be there. -Piggybacking off the most recent successful game. -Characters acting so out of character, it's painful. -Super edgy villain character. -Plot makes absolutely no sense. I genuinely could have written a better plot for this game when I was 12.
Sonic fans: “Forces is too on the nose with its themes of friendship!” Me, a DOOM fan: “Who is friendship and why does her name incite an overwhelming desire within me to solve interpersonal conflicts through violent means?”
They should've just told the truth "From the team that brought you Sonic Lost World". yeah, no one would've bought it but at least they wouldn't be lying
@@spritvio639 LW was fine, it felt more like a Mario game but I thought it was still fun. However I couldn't stand the cutscenes. THAT WAS COOL PUN. ENTIRELY. INTENDED.
I'm not part of the Sonic fandom in regards to the whole "Original Character" side of things, but another immersion killing aspect of the game is the created character you play as. The Devs literally mentioned during an interview at some point that the created character can't be as cool as Sonic or the others, which is why they look generic in every aspect, sharing the features of random NPCs in cutscenes. You don't get any exposition or input, just what they look like compared to the NPCs. It's supposed to be "you" but it really doesn't feel that way. So after all the hype they tried to generate with the created character feature, they give you a lacklustre toolbox to work with, on top of all the stuff you mentioned in the video. It just kills the immersion more, and it may as well have been cut from the game entirely, because very little would have changed if they did.
I find this both insulting and hilarious. Insulting for the obvious reasons, hilarious because, at least in my experience, they kinda failed to make the OC not cool. Less cool than Sonic, maybe, but in a way that facilitated his underdog story of slowly working up the power and courage to stand against Infinite. Which should have been the ONLY reason for not making him cool, not the stupid Sonic bias; that is incredibly stupid and unprofessional. Then again, I happen to have the free Persona 5 pack. Even if you don’t want to do a full Joker cosplay (don’t, the mask looks REAL stupid on OCs), the jacket alone is a massive step toward making the available options not suck.
Sad thing is I'd say the Rookie was honestly a good idea, probably the best part of the game, with some of the better levels at that. Problem is unlike South Park or Elder Scrolls, he feels like he's entirely fluff, as if you could have thrown his role to Tails, and the game would have probably been better for it. Nevermind the much more grating issue of the Rookie's gear taking five hundred times longer to acquire than to actually finish the game. It's Imaginators all over again...
Sonic Forces has a problem understanding the concept of "show, don't tell". We are told that the characters are doing things and that the things we do matter, but we are never shown it. As a result, it's completely unbelievable and nothing works out. At all
exactly,we couldnt even get proper cutscenes which would have helped the game becoming a lot better and they even failed the ''Show, dont tell'' concept. They tell us the world is in ruins and that eggman has been torturing sonic but when we see sonic hes cracking jokes like its a normal wednesday
There's also the fact that we've seen them do things before. So what the hell's stopping them from actually doing things now?!? Most notably the "sonic HALP MEH" scene. He's beaten a stronger form of Chaos before. On an unrelated note, some levels are practically hallway simulators with different background settings and the occasional button press/quicktime event. Even if you fail some of them,the game will still act like you did it. Hell, I've seen someone intentionally fail the Triple Boost against the final boss (which is barely even a "final boss") out of curiosity, and instead of using the opportunity to try and attack, Eggman just keeps flailing about.
Silver could've been so cool in this game. His character hasn't popped up in a major role for a while, and I was super excited to see him around. That excitement flatlined once I realized how poorly every character was written. He's not as badly off as some (*cough cough SONIC*) but it still hurts that one of his first lines was "I'm an optimist, but also a realist." Like...please give these characters the respect they deserve! Everyone feels like a watered-down version of themselves. Sonic's been reduced to just "cool guy," and that's about it. It's physically painful to see how these characters have fallen, especially Tails. He's regressed so much. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I agree on this one.Tails was be able to do shit at past games you know?But thay nerfed hım into this crybaby who cant do anything without sonic.Or the other characters.They made them so dumb, and powerless.Sonic becomes more and more flat with the each game presented.
They do Tails some justice in the IDW comics thou, while still allowing his own character traits,, Its a shame that SEGA insists on scrapping character growth and stuff when they can literally look over and use another portrayal instead,,
@@jinxkitty3122 Sega could just let us know that they dont care about Sonic anymore. They can just sell the franchise to some other devs, people who really care about the damn franchise cuz i cant take Segas BS no more
@@jinxkitty3122 How could u take something that made u so big in the first place and then sudenly just grind it into the ground what is the team at sega or sonic team rn :(
Also, the comparison to Sonic CD make me happy. That game did the whole ‘Eggman wins’ idea way better. Like, it’s amazing how much better the art style is in CD. Love that game.
Sonic cd actually did a very good job at portraying how eggman took over the levels in the bad futures by making everything feel broken down and creepy. Sonic forces just made the colors of locations less vibrant and lush than a normal sonic game and had the background be slightly on fire. So much missed potential man...
Not helped by the fact that only two zones were places that Eggman had actually destroyed, everything else he pretty much owned to begin with: Chemical Plant, Death Egg, Metropolis, etc. I’m usually one to not like reusing stage themes, but this was the perfect opportunity to bring back locations and give them a darker coat of paint. Showing us locations that we’ve seen before in games we’re nostalgic for, and wanting to fix them. But no, all we get is sand.
@@mcmistle9892 I Agree with coming back with older stages and do a 180 in them, but it should be some certain stages only, Ice Cap defrosting, Seaside Hill polluted and sewer pipes leading to the ocean, Oil ocean at full speed or Hidden palace being mined to exhaustion
I remember replaying parts of this game because I had never gotten 100% achievememts in anything and thought it would be the easiest game to do so in. My Mum and my grandma were at my house at the time and asked me about the game and if I was enjoying it. I responded honestly: "No, I hate this game." And then I proceeded to die three times in a row within the first 10 seconds of an Avatar stage because I kept trying to jump across a small pit (which seemed like a pretty easy and logical move just by looking at it) but the game wanted to drag me lower so I would follow their intended stage script and thus I was plunged to my death repeatedly. TLDR; you know a game is bad when even your _grandma_ can look at the screen and say "oh dear...that doesn't look very fun".
The IGN score for this game still makes me laugh. "6.9," immature jokes aside, is the closest you can get to a passing grade without actually passing. Sonic Forces gave the game journalists everything they wanted with no understanding of why they wanted it. Sega saw everyone's complaints that levels were too long and the gameplay was too complicated and the stories were too intrusive and childish (while also taking themselves too seriously somehow,) and they took everything in the exact opposite direction. Now, levels are too short and simple, while the story has super-dramatic beats that are too quick to sink in and have nothing to do with the levels. They do what they believe is the bare minimum for a success, paranoid that going any further would be labelled as a failure, and their reward is a grade that's just .1 shy of a college degree.
I watched this one animation a while back. It was the scene with Tails trying to fix Omega. When Chaos tried to attack, he was body blocked by Classic Sonic, who was then caught in a bubble and almost drowned. Tails then picks up Omega's arm and uses his canon to free him, then chase off Chaos. Then Tails had to lead Classic Sonic, who was lost and hurt Then Forces just has him cower in fear...
Forces could've been so much more that what it was. Imagine if Eggman captured Sonic and friends, and you, practically a nobody that's suffered first-hand, having to rescue him and assemble a team to fight back? What if you had to fight a brainwashed Sonic and other characters? What if instead of just reusing old levels, they instead added a mechanical theme to show that Eggman had taken over and how it's changed everything? What if _you_ had to find the emeralds to go super? That would make you feel like a you earned the title of a hero. Seriously, I'm just throwing ideas out there, but anything would be better than the mess of a story Forces had. Also, Classic needs to stick to his own dimension/time period and left in the care of Whitehead and Co. Wisps need to go away forever, but if they needed to have a similar gimmick, the different emeralds could have different special powers.
that would be cool and all, but if sonic isn't even allowed to feel emotions do you really expect them ot put a fight with a brainwashed anyone it'd be the coolest thing ever, having to save them but they're literally never gonna do that
Like Javier said, Sega's mandates on Sonic as a whole just kinda suck. As far as your idea for the plot goes, I love it, but Sega would never let anything that competent happen again. I personally love the portrayal of Sonic and the more serious storylines (even the ones that people see as "bad" or "too dark) throughout the Dreamcast and 2000s eras. Unfortunately, the general public does not feel the same as I, and I'd assume you as well, so I feel that we're just damned to mediocrity. I hope to be wrong, though.
It's not a sequel. Generations was all about the contrast between modern and classic Sonic as we see a collection of returning zones from Sonic's entire history. In Forces, Classic Sonic is a non presence. He only has a few levels, and feels written into the story last minute. The only returning zones were Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Death Egg, and they serve more so as just interchangeable level themes.
How many more chances does Iizuka get?? I mean, what’s it gong to take for SEGA to realize the extent of damage they’re imposing on their own franchise!?
Iizuka is the one who actually cares about Sonic tho. Blame having an inexperienced team combined with certain policies at Sega not letting them work to their fullest potential. Iizuka has to work within the lines like everyone else and Sonic team can't be as free with how they develop games anymore.
Ken Pontac and Warren Graff made Happy Tree Friends, which isn't known for its witty dialogue(Because the animals don't even talk), but it's more known for its Final Destination esque deaths on cutesy animals. So having them write baby jokes for a dialogue based series is a dumb idea.
@@hellomeloanimations8107 that also is not owned by SEGA. No version of the Green Hill Theme is, if they ever want to use it, they need the permission from Masato Nakamura
Sonic forces has something I call shock drama Shocking things intended to surprise the viewer in order to make an impact. Like sonic dying and then like 5 minutes later being shown to be alive. It's really lazy story telling and I don't feel like I'm in a war It feels like Tuesday aka every time eggman "takes over the world" it surely doesn't feel like that. we don't even see the extent of eggmans empire. It just sucks.
Sega headquartered 2014: Iizuka: ah yes we finally we finished developing sonic lost world I’m certain that the game will be a huge success oh and big red button is also developing sonic boom rise of lyric next year is gonna be a big year for sonic -1 year later- Iizuka: oh no, no one liked sonic lost world and sonic boom rise of lyric was a failure A random sega employee: sir we are ready to start development on the next sonic game we we’re thinking of adding new mechani- Iizuka: No! We are not gonna risk it we need to bring back old mechanics Another random sega employee: I know sonic colors was a huge success we should bring back wisps also sonic fans love making OC’s on Devian art we should add that as a feature Iizuka: that is genius The first random sega employee: sir wouldn’t it be better to try new things Iizuka: shut up your fired, With all of these new mechanics I’m certain that the next sonic game will be a huge success Sega employee: but sir you all ready said tha Iizuka: what did I tell you pack your stuff and leave now.
@@totodile4271 I mean I'm decent at drawing so maybe during the weekend I can do some art work about it. I've always loved animation so if I get good I could try.
ShadowTH looking better with every new game, huh? Like seriously i completely changed my mind on it. The world DOES feel like its in ruin; everything is dark and hostile; theres disgusting slime all over jungles on prison island; characters all try to fight off and salvage the planet; continuity; great and satisfying ending; it felt GOOD killing black doom. It was immensely satisfying to learn more about ARK and to see the eclipse cannon defend the earth. I miss this game now
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 Shadow the Hedgehog in a way was TOO ambitious. The high amount of levels, the multiple pathways, the weapon system, Shadow's Chaos powers, etc. If the game had been more streamlined, its story and progressive would've been received somewhat better. Forces has no real ambition. Everything from story to levels to gameplay is very similar to the last few games, but watered down heavily.
@@casualvanilla Yeah, but at least STH had ambition, even if it was too much and wasn't streamlined. Sonic Forces just feels, emphty Like I said, at least it tried SOMETHING that was more or less in line with the franchise anf while it didn't stick, that is at leasy something to look up
Watching any cutscene with eggman being angry or anyone talking about eggman just feels like I’m watching a gunman hold me at gunpoint and continuously saying “I’m gonna do it, I really mean it” until the police arrive 5 hours later and kindly show him out of my house
They're probably scared of pulling another Sonic Boom and because of that they're trying not to release any new spin-of that isn't a re-hash of a previous formula, because Sega is too lazy to actually try to make things work at this point
@@Nativefall Yeah 06’s stages like Crisis City, and Kingdom Valley are some of the best stages in the franchise. Forces doesn’t have a stage that even makes top 50 Sonic levels
Even though 06 has terrible controls, terrible gameplay, terrible level designs ( with the exception of Dusty Desert & Tropical Jungle in Sonic's ) & terrible stories.
I see a lot of similarities between what happened with this franchise and with Star Wars. Things were going good, the creators knew what they were doing, people loved what they were being given, everthing was fine. Unfortunately, there was a small subset of "fans" with a bloated sense of entitlement that wanted things to go back to the way they were "supposed to be", misunderstanding the franchise for what it has been since the beginning. Eventually, those "fans" started getting listened to and it ended up in the disastrous modern era of these franchises. The difference here is that while Star Wars as a franchise is currently being run by a corporation that didn' t create it but has at least a chance of being redeemed if they bring back the original creator, Sonic is being run by the original creator, yet there's no telling what might happen in the future. Also, Sega put themselves in the position they're in by, instead of picking themselves back up after Sonic 06, becoming desperate for anything that might make a quick buck.
you know a stage that does a better job at changing the level over time, better than forces sand hill? Sonic and knuckles, Mushroom hill. A level that changes seasons as you run through.
because of Robotnik's evil season-changing machine pointed at the sky. Gotta love how a 1993-1994 Mega Drive game has better storytelling than a ±2018 AAA game. :)
3 years later since that game and I am starting in a better game called be a athlete and it has a better story I have ran 278 miles since August and have ran 3 miles in 21 minutes and 57 seconds and a half marathon 13.1 miles in 1 hour 57 minutes and 37 seconds
On the Phantom Ruby, I thought itd make sense in 2 different ways. 1. The Phantom Ruby was originally from Mania's timeline (Which I believe while it is the same Classic Sonic from Generations however when Generations happened the timeline split a la Ocarina of Time, that would explain how both Adventure and the two worlds thing being canon) and Eggman tried to duplicate it so he could have an even more powerful army, however when that turned out to be a bust he decided to weaponize the one Phantom Ruby he had as much as possible or 2. Eggman tried mass producing Phantom Ruby's after some sort of scientific breakthrough and one happened to fuck with the dimensional-time-space whatever and opened a portal in Mania in the sky (or space) hitting Angel Island, plunging it into the ocean, kicking off Mania. Is any of this hinted in the game? HA! No, thatd require effort on Sonic Team's part, but after playing through the game a few times these either two could make the most sense to me, though I tend to lean more towards the 1st one.
There's a prequel comic where Eggman just finds the Phantom Ruby just in his front lawn, sees its potential and is like "Oh yeah I wanna make like a million of these" So basically the 1st one is right.
I'm pretty sure Mania's Ruby actually did have the ability to warp reality-- physically teleporting you to different places, with the Ruby Mist being a by-product. Forces' Ruby feels like a copy-- an imperfect attempt to make a more controllable version, e.g. one the doctor would trust Infinite with. It's generally not a good idea to give an unstable subordinate unlimited power, so maybe the artificial Ruby was meant to be a sort of failsafe?
All can i say in defense to this emo colored stone is that you can DIE irl if your brain thinks so because your brain thinks you're dead and so shuts off the heart and so no blood wich mean no air. So yeah
You know, this game has a uncanny resemblance to the story of satam, a television series that actually had a world ruled by robotnik. And it was a kick-ass robotnik too. You had entire cities completely roboticized, Sonic's uncle and even his dog were affected and barely anyone escaped minus a few that joined the freedom fighters. Hell, you had a robotic who flung a wizard into a alternate dimension and trapped him in there along with Sally acorn's dad. This robotnik was actually badass and his ego was what made him lose in the end. He could have killed Sonic when he had him captured in one episode, where he would have flung him into that same alternate dimension, but he still had to make a pinball machine and play with the little rodent. worst part yet, there was supposed to be a game based on this concept on the Sega Genesis years ago. It never came to fruition, and what we got, was this years later. I know that neither one of these Sonic things have anything to do with each other, but it was obvious where the inspiration came from. It's just that the TV show did it infinity times better.
Wait SatAM had sonic used as a pinball? That explains Sonic Pinball game, I never beat it but did notice it didn't 'fit' with all the other games. Never saw the show as a kid but I was able to play it through Sonic Mega Collection on the Gamecube. It's a great concept hopefully they can nail the execution.
@@starkiller1289 that's correct! It was a later episode, but robotnik made an entire pinball machine where the gutter (just that hole at the bottom of every pinball machine) had a portal to the alternate dimension just waiting for him. I can't remember which one came first, but both ideas are still things I wish Sega would go back to. At least the guys behind Sonic mania Sonic team now can't do crap right.
I think it's funny how a Rookie and Sonic (or maybe 2 Sonics) can stop Infinite and all Eggman plans, but the Ultimate Life form, a hedgehog with Psychokinesis powers, a governament spy and all the Sonic cast can't do anything in six months :P
@@eezium First, end Sonic Team. There shouldn't be a specific team that only makes Sonic games, otherwise the passion runs out, like we' re seeing now. Maybe give the rights to actually make the games to a studio like Insomniac. Second, get writers who actually care about the story prior Heroes. Maybe get the writers of Unleashed. Third, no meddling whatsoever and give the dev team as much time and as many delays as they need. Fourth, make a remake of Adventure 1 & 2. Finally, make Adventure 3. Continue and maintain a level of quality control. There, foolproof plan.
Remember in SA2 Sonic "died" and instead of whining like a little bitch for Sonic to save him, Tails was realized he had to finish what Sonic started, and stop Eggman. I miss when Tails was an actual character and not just some helpless kid.
Nevermind that. He was already a guy with the same abilities as Sonic in Sonic 2, fly a plane and even fight on his own in Sonic 3. They aren't ignoring Adventure. They are also ignoring the original trilogy (Ironically despite having Classic Sonic)
Ikr, the lack of character since colors, wasted story/villains since lost world, even its poor lazy level design from lost world. Like lost world was lazy ans boring but *ATLEAST* it felt like they somewhat tried- here its like they literally said *"fuck it!"*
I hate it when people call Sonic forces, and sonic Colors ....3d Sonic games? More like 2d Sonic games, Sonic unleased is the ONLY 3d Boost Sonic game Note: I Am not calling Sonic Colors and Generations Trash but you should understand what I mean
@@Nativefall Colors is mostly 2D, but Generations had a pretty large amount of 3D in its modern levels, with only Planet Wisp overstaying it's welcome in that regard for me.
The worst part about this game for me is that there is some admittedly cool concepts in there which just get underused or mishandled. A game where most of the resistance has been wiped out by eggman’s forces and now face an uphill battle is a pretty cool idea and kinda reminds of that old sonic cartoon. Sonic being kidnapped could have also led to some interesting character moments and even a conflict of interests between those that want to rescue him vs those who think he’s already dead. Chaos as well as the other villains returning is a kinda terrifying idea which could be used to exemplify how hopeless the situation our protagonists are in even if it’s not an original concept. Seriously these are all good ideas but they screwed them over, especially Chaos,.. look how they massacred my boy
Sonic taking cool concepts and driving them into the ground admittedly is a trend that has kept on going since 06, and that trend really only stopped for Colors, which is why they won't make a game without the wisps anymore when they have no reason to even be here. It just results in the games having no identity whatsoever.
Maybe its just me but when they said tails lost it I can imagine Tails just super pissed of at Sonic's death and going on a rage fueled but ultimately futile spree of destruction
One of my recent ideas on that is that he becomes a boss fight who attacks you out of fear hidden behind rage using his mechanical expertise and combat experience to attack you.
Yeah, if they weren’t gonna do anything with him “losing it,” why isn’t Tails the leader of the Resistance? I love Resistance Knuckles but Tails is literally Sonic’s sidekick, it just makes so much sense.
Sonic and knuckles mushroom hill zone got progrssivly worse by losing its seasons. Then you destroy the satellite and all the green returns. Also bringing back the death egg was a huge missed opportunity. It was the plot point and main objective in sonic 2+3k. But now it just sits there for no reason and without a master emerald to power it either. I can't believe I'm saying this, but sonic 4 made the return of the Death egg MK2 a huge deal and made it more effective than forces
Man, I miss the days of of Jason Griffith. The days where Sonic actually had a character and didn't just spout out jokes every 5 seconds he is on screen
In retrospect having Tails and Knux on the game cover for Forces was grade A bait to take advantage of the success of Mania. Yet neither Tails nor Knux are playable in Forces, Tails is depicted as a helpless coward who can't even beat Egg pawns and Knux is depicted as an incompetent leader whose role as guardian is forgotten (unless you read the tie-in comic lol!).
Dark like the Avatar finding Sonic in prison with his legs broken? Maybe finding out that Eggman was using the real Infinite to create more rubies, and when we actually find him he's covered in crystals growing out of every part of his body along with some badniks mining them off of him? How about Tails 'losing it' meaning he hasn't left his workshop in months? People have to bring him food to make sure he doesn't starve and often find him passed out at his desk next to a pile of scrapped designs that takes up an entire corner of the room.
They probably were gonna make it genuinely dark but then realised that they would get made fun off for being serious by ign so they intentionally made it light enough to get brownie points from them.
@@BitchChill It's actually pretty solid... Solid as in "ashes remaining from a dumpster fire". (I'm pretty proud of this comment, gotta remember that one)
Eggman was in control of the world in Sonic 1. You saved the zones from Eggman's robots, changed the signpost to Sonic to signify your progress and fought eggman at the end of them.
0:58 orbot and cubot weren’t there yet when eggman did those things, well orbot was in unleashed, but it feels like he wouldn’t remember, or wasn’t aware of it or something
I feel like almost everyone has lost hope in sonic at this point, and unfortunately that includes me. if the next game blows, then sonic may be as good as *dead* and i'm scared that he may not come back this time :( heck, even frigging crash bandicoot is more relevant than sonic now. which honestly isn't a problem (to me), but it still hurts sonic to a certain degree
@@sonic101official well you see that and crash has had about 3 new (and good) games in the past 3 years or so, sonic can't sell on his name alone anymore cus of how far he's fallen from grace. therefore crash is more relevant than sonic at the time of this comment :P
@Baxi Tabaxi The problem isn't that people are still criticizing the game (which it deserves, since it's not very good). The problem is that this presents a long-term problem with the series. If the story is going to be written as childishly as possible, no one's going to take it seriously anymore. And while we don't play Sonic games for story, it was capable of decent plotlines, so we were still engaged in playing the game. But something like THIS makes the series look like a joke and hardly gives us a reason to care why we should even stop the main threat. And that's the REAL problem! If Sega's not going to take this seriously, why should we? >.
@Baxi Tabaxi Are you still saying that? You do realize that this is simply a look back at the game to see where it went wrong? And it's the most recent mainline Sonic game, so of course people are still talking about it. What other game is there to talk about? This game is a perfect example of the sad, pathetic state the series is in right now! >.
* Knuckles being serious * >Out of character I'm pretty triggered as a longtime fan of the "real" Knux; not the dumbed-down meathead that's been the norm as of late.
Yeah, I'm a-ok with Knuckles being serious. His character has been mishandled so badly that people forgot where he came from. If anything, he's more in character in this one game than he's ever been in the last 15 years.
@@retron99 he’s still not in character, when we say ‘make knuckles serious’ we don’t mean to give’em lines like ‘none of this is good vector, that’s why it’s called war...’
@@dr.oswald5400 if they spent 1 year trying to make a sonic game with 3 playable characters that play similarly and failed. Im doubting they can make a game that relies on multiple playable characters tbh
@mr freakout I'd say it's a concept that's been around for a while. It's not something unique to the game, it's just that this game specifically, finally uses it.
@@blackdot105 Eggman Finds a Ruby that can turn every illusion in reality, can make an army by just thinking about it, can make unlimited energy for his machines and even creates a being with those same properties, But then, they screwed up that potential into a low-average game
Everyone to Unleashed: "perhaps I treated you too harshly" I always enjoyed the game for what it was, loved the new boost formula which so many people hated on
In comics, Eggman found Phantom Ruby from Mania and he has no idea what it is (due timeline split in Generations, so Tails should say different timeline, not dimension, but what do I know). After some testing he wanted to mass produce it , thus making prototypes (like Tails did Fake Emerald in SA2) and perfect copy that Infinite has and needs to recharge with generators in Death Egg and below Metropolis. BUT after defeat, Infinite is pulled into reactor with Ruby... so it's not a copy... and they talk as if Infinite was created by Eggman too... I guess they forgot to redraft the script. Also game implies that Infinite die, yet the game and IDW comics dont acknowledge that, cuz no one says he did or its not shown to us, so as far as I know he might be snooPING AS usual somewhere untill they decided that they want to bring him again (like with Shadow in SA2).
Pretty sure if Infinite was sucked into a generator he either died or faced a fate worse than death due to mind fracturing from the ruby getting supercharged either way his physical body is probably gone. With how SEGA seldom reuses villains not named "Eggman" he's probably safe to be assumed dead. Very unlikely he's hanging out in the generator code ala Shadow in Vector's passcode missions. Sucks you need to find the comics to get critical info like this though.
Sonic is claimed to be tortured but we don't see how that even affects him. He's just the same person he was before and after he was tortured. Why not show us how Sonic's personality has changed. Sonic is always a free spirit but it would be very surprising to the fans to see Sonic act differently; therefore we see the effects of being tortured. For 3 years now, I always imagined Sonic getting tortured like this: We know Sonic can't swim. How about Engman has Sonic in one of his bases and places Sonic into a tank the size of a, let's say you average gymnasium, the tanks fills up with water and Sonic can't swim. The water raises and it stops just enough for Sonic to keep his head above the water for air but the water is then electrocuted and Sonic cannot fight the pain of being electrocuted and keeping his head above water at the same time. Sonic would have no choice; it's either get the air or groan from the pain which by the way would make you drown. See? that is torture. Then after Sonic is rescued by his pals we see that Sonic doesn't want to go at this alone. He asks his pals to accompany him on the missions. Let's for example he asks Vector and Espio to come with him on a mission. Now you don't need to play as Espio and Vector but they can be used as power ups to help in missions. Press a button that would call forth Espio to grab Sonic and he will use his shrunken and power of adhesion to stick to walls and spin along those walls as if you were using Spikes. Different characters could've been used as a helping hand but no, back then sonic team heavily relied on wisps.
After Sonic's rescue he could be being held at the base to make sure that he recovers, and that would be a great point to bring in other playable characters and the avatar. I can imagine post-rescue sonic and the orher hedgehogs having a conversation like this: Sonic: "you'd just send the recruit on a suicide mission?!? Are you that heartless?!?" Shadow: "Yet you refused to go because of a little water. Are you truly that weak?" Silver: "Whoa, Shadow! That's taking it way too far!" Shadow: "Honestly, you're pathetic. Not even good enough to be your own fake. Y'know, the real sonic would've been out there taking down the death egg already by now. But now? All I see is a pale imitation of the real thing"
@@sev1120 okay that dialogue alone is pure badass. 😃 it actually sounds like something Shadow would say and it definitely shows how evident it is of Sonic’s spirit being shattered. Knowing Silver and his persona from 06, it does sounds like Silver would make such a defense at Sonic’s side. Excellent quotes there, friend.
@@voiceacticon667 Here's some examples Just after Sonic has been captured Sonic: "Eggman! I won't let you win!" Eggman: "Eggman, Eggman, Eggman. How I despise that name... The name YOU gave me! But don't worry, your friends won't live long enough to mourn you" Sonic: "you won't win!" Eggman: "Hohoho, but sonic... I already have..." ------------------------------------- Partway through Sonic's torture Eggman: "I'm a world conquering genius, but I'm not a monster. I've brought a friend here for you" *'amy' walks into the room* Sonic: "Amy?!? A-are you alright?" 'amy': "Oh Sonic... I can't believe you fell for the *I love you* schtick! You've always been pathetic..." Sonic: "W-what the hell?" 'amy': *grabs a large hammer* "time for some real fun" ---------------------------- After "amy's" meeting with Sonic 'amy': "Man, that was fun..." Eggman: "drop that miserable disguise" *"Amy's body melts away, revealing Zina of the Zeti (got no clue how to spell that)* Zina: "He really has gotten pathetic. I can't believe the rebels are still holding out, anyway" Eggman: *presses a button on his egg mobile* "Neither do I" *Zina's body melts away into glitching pixels, revealing she was a phantom ruby construct* ------------------------------------ Upon Sonic's rescue Tails: "Sonic! You're alive!" Knuckles: "Tails! Give him space!" Amy: "What happened?" *Amy taps Sonic on the shoulder* Sonic: "Don't touch me!" ----------------------------
Correction: Infinite didn't just "quit", *he got sucked into the generator.* Kinda grim, but knowing how his entire motivation is based around getting called "weak".. Not much of value was lost.
What really bothers me about the Phantom Ruby, is the fact that it basically makes Infinite God, but then he and Eggman still end up losing. Like, Infinite could have been like "The floor is lava" and they would have won instantly. Or make them believe they're in the sun instead of slowly dropping it on them
Infinite: Can literally create anything, like a fucking star Also infinite: Makes clones of Chaos 0, base Shadow, Zavok (cause...marketing for Lost World?), and base Metal Sonic. Not a fuck ton of Perfect Chaos’s, Super Shadow’s, Perfect Dark Gaia’s and Metal Overlords.
After this, I'm giving sonic team ONE last chance. I'm so sick of getting excited for something only to receive a half assed game. If Sega pulls this thing again I'm losing faith in them.
Sonic the Werehog. To be honest, I forgot that game exist. Even than by the looks at it, it isn't bad. But it isn't as good as the previous Sonic & All-Stars Racing.
The whole other dimension thing pissed me off too when i saw that... Like... Huh???? Wtf was the point of Generations again? Ok Sega. Part 4: End me. Same.
8:35 I love the fact that everything he says about the characters is fixed in Netflix's Sonic Prime with the New Yoke City. Each character is completely different from the way they are portrayed in the games. Rouge goes from seductive to being the leader, Knuckles keeps that war type aspect from Sonic Forces, Amy goes from crazy for Sonic to part cyborg, Big is Big, and Tails (my favorite change) does what the Tails in Sonic Forces should have done and gotten a more badass look and complete change in character. I also enjoy how they each got a different look to fit the environment even though all worlds in that show do that.
Yup South Island and the only city like area is Starlight Zone. But no mention or references are made to it. Heck remember South Island has a always active volcano with lava burying a ancient city.
Sonic froces is an average mess hope the next game will be good with full cutscenes,no cring dialogue,good story,no classic sonic,3D modles that have emotions and mario odyssey kinda of modles(not saying the 3D modles we have are bad).And lastly generations like boost. Also let sonic and freinds do something instead of crying about sonic.
They should try making a 3D sonic game that doesn’t make you follow a specific path to the goal and lets you go different pathways like a more advanced sonic adventure. The gameplay should complement exploration too.
21:17 fun fact:in sonic adventure(you know the 1998 dreamcast launch title)in sky deck if you pay atencion you can see that you are destroying part of the egg carrier wing throughout the level.
@@Onaterdem If you take away the abysmal story and awful gameplay, Sonic 06 is pretty good. If you take away the good parts of sonic generations or sonic 3, they are really bad games. Duh lol. But you are right, it’s not THAT bad. It’s very, VERY mediocre, it’s not a trash can, it’s a trash bin. That’s less insulting.
@@peppinoandweskerfriendsfor3450 True lol But, like, I mean, the story is _rarely_ good in Sonic games and the gameplay isn't terrible, it's just an experimentation (that isn't too bad, just hit or miss as I said, some people aren't gonna prefer that as *Sonic's* gameplay), so I wouldn't say there is anything insultingly bad about the game, unlike 06's gameplay or Elise (Deadly Six is pretty mediocre but not Elise levels of bad), or Boom's unfinishedness, yaknow. If anything, I absolutely love the level concepts. And the overall artstyle is pretty consistent and actually decent looking. They went cartoony but did it pretty well. My opinion of course. P.S. Forces' soundtrack is REALLY below average for a Sonic OST. Lost World's is pretty good. That's a dealbreaker for me. I actually genuinely enjoy 06 partly because of the music _(and partly because I absolutely love Shadow's representation in the story, but mostly because I think the glitches are so much fun)_ even though I definitely admit that it's a pretty bad and unfinished game. Like lmao they couldn't even make the gems use Sonic's energy bar??? What??? That's SUCH an easy thing to do?? x'D
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Mario always has great level themes and consistently good games. Such a shame that I don't really enjoy Mario and am kinda addicted to Sonic. Gameplay, general mood, music style etc. are among the many reasons. Unfortunately just the level themes and quality/polish aren't enough :/
Why do they keep insisting on using the Deadly Six (and more specifically, Zavok)? They're not compelling nor interesting as (side) villains. Even previous Sonic antagonists were better than them.
@@Majokodomo I... actually liked zavok... 😐 but wow even that insult isn’t compared to how much his potential to be a greater guy and the potential to have an much better story for him. And the worst part? Even Sega might not even try it this time if the fans end up begging for them to bring in a shitty reference to an pedo and an killer (projerid and Egoraptor respectively), yeah a very hard problem, and one that sega must learn along the way, if they ever did care... what an asshole the game grumps are now. T___T
My main issue with this game is the disappointing fact that everything is just an ilussion and it affects sonic mania too. Remember the early teaser? The one where there was Metal sonic, Chaos, Shadow and even Zavork for some reason. Everyone was like "EVERYONE IS HERE!!" "WHY SHADOW IS EVIL AGAIN??" "CHAOS IS BACK?!". But guess what? All of this was just an ilussion. Now with the sonic mania thing, stuff like hard boiled heavies, metal sonic kai and hell probably even stages like stardust speedway were all ilussion
Then that one Sonic game with cars comes out and they're all having fun and racing with eggman who just disappeared at the end of forces and everything is back to normal.
Honestly, if people actually have fun with this game, ALL i ask is to get refund, delete the game and get it on Torrent. I don't want to more games like this and Takashi " absolutely clueless " Isuka can be really easily misguided
Ya guys are kink shaming? Damn that's tough... And no, the Minion PFP kinda scares me but I seen of all of Rule 34 anyways so nothing really phase's me anymore. Ahahahaha, Im fucked I know.
Once I saw those images comparing the credits of level designers from the last few mainline Sonic games, I think I understood at least one reason why Forces is bad; Sonic Team have been bleeding talent like a stuck pig
This is exactly why Sonic Team should hire Ian Flynn to write games. They should have hired him a long time ago. He's been writing amazing Sonic stories for 15 years. What are you waiting for, Sega!?!?
Fan theory: When generations happened, Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic split into 2 universes. Now they just coexist together and Classic Sonic could travel to the Modern universe if he wanted to by using a big ring. Also, the Phantom Ruby was found by Eggman on Angel Island in Sonic Mania. Modern Eggman had the emerald because Classic Eggman had it so Modern Eggman decides to improve it and then fuse it with Infinite And Null Space is just Egg Reverie Zone
Yeah this game sucks.
:o
Sonic Forces Bonus video (there is no bonus only misery)
I miss you Cybershell 🥺 don’t disappear again
Weird seeing you around here.
Cybershell
Tru dat
Sonic Forces me to make a lame pun.
It Forces me to hate Takashi Isuka
Sonic forces me to see that shadow profile again.
@@edgelord8337 sonic forces me to wonder where that shadow profile pic came from
@@dahazelgen Archie comics
I see you changed your name,I am also a Luigi fan.
Sonic Forces feels like Sega said, “Fuck It!” and added a ton of elements from other Sonic games without really taking the time to flesh them out, and that’s why it feels so unremarkably empty.
Sega headquartered 2014:
Iizuka: ah yes we finally we finished developing sonic lost world I’m certain that the game will be a huge success oh and big red button is also developing sonic boom rise of lyric next year is gonna be a big year for sonic
1 year later
Iizuka: oh no, no one liked sonic lost world and sonic boom rise of lyric was a failure
A random sega employee: sir we are ready to start development on the next sonic game we we’re thinking of adding new mechani-
Iizuka: No! We are not gonna risk it we need to bring back old mechanics
Another random sega employee: I know sonic colors was a huge success we should bring back wisps also sonic fans love making OC’s on Devian art we should add that as a feature
Iizuka: that is genius
The first random sega employee: sir wouldn’t it be better to try new things
Iizuka: shut up your fired, With all of these new mechanics I’m certain that the next sonic game will be a huge success
Sega employee: but sir you all ready said tha
Iizuka: what did I tell you pack your stuff and leave now.
"Continuity Snarl: Classic Sonic is portrayed as an alternate universe counterpart to Modern Sonic, rather than being his time-displaced younger self like Generations portrayed him as.
According to This example contains a TRIVIA entry. It should be moved to the TRIVIA tab.Word of Dante, this is because SEGA of Japan mandated that Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic be separated characters altogether rather than from different times." - tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/SonicForces
I wonder how much of this video's complaints were directly SEGA's fault, instead of the devs. Not to mention the dubbing.
SEGA: "No, they are now completely separate characters."
Writer(s?): "The F&CK?"
Actually, it might have *been better* if SEGA said "fuck it" and let the devs do their jobs.
@@Bezaliel13 If the next few sonic game fail in 2021 (the 30th anniversary mind you) then sega should have no choice but to give up on sonic completely and it will be THEIR FAULT for the franchise's death. And then yuji naka and naoto oshima will be laughing at the company and how they failed the series (even though naka is the reason for sonic's 15th anniversary being a dumpster fire. He couldn't have been bothered to stay with sega until 06 was done? I understand he wanted to move on but come on. Naka is also the reason sonic xtreme very got any support and ultimately cancelled).
@@AutZentus
Unless it is a "Marvel comics" situation, where canon is not their main source of income, so they would not really care how harmful their restrictions are.
The only thing I like about sonic forces is the music and the avatar u can dress them up with the right outfits and species made a couple that looks great well most people's avatars are creepy un-organized,
This game literally checks all the boxes of a 12 year old's Sonic fanfiction.
-Self-insert OC
-Characters added for no reason other than for them to be there.
-Piggybacking off the most recent successful game.
-Characters acting so out of character, it's painful.
-Super edgy villain character.
-Plot makes absolutely no sense.
I genuinely could have written a better plot for this game when I was 12.
No, even that's insulting 12 year olds. This fills all the boxes for a 10 year old's fanfic.
-14 year olds fake self-dianosing depression
-Chessy script
- overpowered OC that gets along with the main characters
Ironically i remember making a fan fic like that when i was younger and i dont know if the story was better or not but it was so similar its stupid
-The only real reason to play is to make the most stupidest thing ever
-IT SUCKS SO BAD THAT I WANT TO DIE
-Sanic would not even play it
You forgot to mention how the game forces "friendship gets everything" down our throat
It's like the worst cutscenes from Kingdom Hearts.
Heroes gets a pass because it actually SHOWED the “real super power of teamwork”.
So it *forced* things down our throat?
Please tell me that was intentional
Sonic fans: “Forces is too on the nose with its themes of friendship!”
Me, a DOOM fan: “Who is friendship and why does her name incite an overwhelming desire within me to solve interpersonal conflicts through violent means?”
When the game constantly says "friendship" I think about My Little Pony. The writting there is better than this game
"im going to explain the plot without any humor or witty remarks"
but the plot itself is comedy gold
"From the team that brought you Sonic Colors & Sonic Generations"
Huh, i guess the gameplay in forces literally evolved backwards
They should've just told the truth "From the team that brought you Sonic Lost World". yeah, no one would've bought it but at least they wouldn't be lying
Those were the writers. The level designers were newbies and a LW guy.
They fucking trolled us.
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 Ironically the game is even worse than Lost World......
@@spritvio639 LW was fine, it felt more like a Mario game but I thought it was still fun. However I couldn't stand the cutscenes.
THAT WAS COOL
PUN. ENTIRELY. INTENDED.
I'm not part of the Sonic fandom in regards to the whole "Original Character" side of things, but another immersion killing aspect of the game is the created character you play as.
The Devs literally mentioned during an interview at some point that the created character can't be as cool as Sonic or the others, which is why they look generic in every aspect, sharing the features of random NPCs in cutscenes. You don't get any exposition or input, just what they look like compared to the NPCs. It's supposed to be "you" but it really doesn't feel that way.
So after all the hype they tried to generate with the created character feature, they give you a lacklustre toolbox to work with, on top of all the stuff you mentioned in the video. It just kills the immersion more, and it may as well have been cut from the game entirely, because very little would have changed if they did.
And inspired by really obvious copyright infringement too? *cough cough* sonic-chu *cough cough*
I find this both insulting and hilarious. Insulting for the obvious reasons, hilarious because, at least in my experience, they kinda failed to make the OC not cool. Less cool than Sonic, maybe, but in a way that facilitated his underdog story of slowly working up the power and courage to stand against Infinite. Which should have been the ONLY reason for not making him cool, not the stupid Sonic bias; that is incredibly stupid and unprofessional.
Then again, I happen to have the free Persona 5 pack. Even if you don’t want to do a full Joker cosplay (don’t, the mask looks REAL stupid on OCs), the jacket alone is a massive step toward making the available options not suck.
Sad thing is I'd say the Rookie was honestly a good idea, probably the best part of the game, with some of the better levels at that. Problem is unlike South Park or Elder Scrolls, he feels like he's entirely fluff, as if you could have thrown his role to Tails, and the game would have probably been better for it.
Nevermind the much more grating issue of the Rookie's gear taking five hundred times longer to acquire than to actually finish the game. It's Imaginators all over again...
Sonic Forces has a problem understanding the concept of "show, don't tell". We are told that the characters are doing things and that the things we do matter, but we are never shown it. As a result, it's completely unbelievable and nothing works out. At all
exactly,we couldnt even get proper cutscenes which would have helped the game becoming a lot better and they even failed the ''Show, dont tell'' concept. They tell us the world is in ruins and that eggman has been torturing sonic but when we see sonic hes cracking jokes like its a normal wednesday
It does show it in the frikin background of stages lol
@@thelookingcat but what does it do for us, the player?
You can remove them, and NOTHING will change.
When the rookie is more of a useful person compared to the other people individuals which actually have had experience against stuff like this
There's also the fact that we've seen them do things before. So what the hell's stopping them from actually doing things now?!? Most notably the "sonic HALP MEH" scene. He's beaten a stronger form of Chaos before.
On an unrelated note, some levels are practically hallway simulators with different background settings and the occasional button press/quicktime event. Even if you fail some of them,the game will still act like you did it. Hell, I've seen someone intentionally fail the Triple Boost against the final boss (which is barely even a "final boss") out of curiosity, and instead of using the opportunity to try and attack, Eggman just keeps flailing about.
Sonic Forces in a nutshell: Throw in random things from previous titles without thinking about how to make the game cohesive.
Pretty much.
Oh, and also make those things shittier
Also: *Green hill is looking a lot like ˢᵃⁿᵈ ʰᶦˡˡ right now*
Silver could've been so cool in this game. His character hasn't popped up in a major role for a while, and I was super excited to see him around. That excitement flatlined once I realized how poorly every character was written. He's not as badly off as some (*cough cough SONIC*) but it still hurts that one of his first lines was "I'm an optimist, but also a realist."
Like...please give these characters the respect they deserve! Everyone feels like a watered-down version of themselves. Sonic's been reduced to just "cool guy," and that's about it. It's physically painful to see how these characters have fallen, especially Tails. He's regressed so much.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I agree on this one.Tails was be able to do shit at past games you know?But thay nerfed hım into this crybaby who cant do anything without sonic.Or the other characters.They made them so dumb, and powerless.Sonic becomes more and more flat with the each game presented.
They do Tails some justice in the IDW comics thou, while still allowing his own character traits,, Its a shame that SEGA insists on scrapping character growth and stuff when they can literally look over and use another portrayal instead,,
The fact that the game never even explains why Silver’s there is so trash. They really left it to a damn comic of all things to explain it
@@jinxkitty3122 Sega could just let us know that they dont care about Sonic anymore. They can just sell the franchise to some other devs, people who really care about the damn franchise cuz i cant take Segas BS no more
@@jinxkitty3122 How could u take something that made u so big in the first place and then sudenly just grind it into the ground what is the team at sega or sonic team rn :(
Also, the comparison to Sonic CD make me happy. That game did the whole ‘Eggman wins’ idea way better.
Like, it’s amazing how much better the art style is in CD. Love that game.
*TRUE DAT*
Sonic cd actually did a very good job at portraying how eggman took over the levels in the bad futures by making everything feel broken down and creepy. Sonic forces just made the colors of locations less vibrant and lush than a normal sonic game and had the background be slightly on fire. So much missed potential man...
Not helped by the fact that only two zones were places that Eggman had actually destroyed, everything else he pretty much owned to begin with: Chemical Plant, Death Egg, Metropolis, etc.
I’m usually one to not like reusing stage themes, but this was the perfect opportunity to bring back locations and give them a darker coat of paint. Showing us locations that we’ve seen before in games we’re nostalgic for, and wanting to fix them.
But no, all we get is sand.
Also teh paralels to Unleashed were spot on.
@@mcmistle9892 I Agree with coming back with older stages and do a 180 in them, but it should be some certain stages only, Ice Cap defrosting, Seaside Hill polluted and sewer pipes leading to the ocean, Oil ocean at full speed or Hidden palace being mined to exhaustion
I remember replaying parts of this game because I had never gotten 100% achievememts in anything and thought it would be the easiest game to do so in. My Mum and my grandma were at my house at the time and asked me about the game and if I was enjoying it. I responded honestly:
"No, I hate this game."
And then I proceeded to die three times in a row within the first 10 seconds of an Avatar stage because I kept trying to jump across a small pit (which seemed like a pretty easy and logical move just by looking at it) but the game wanted to drag me lower so I would follow their intended stage script and thus I was plunged to my death repeatedly.
TLDR; you know a game is bad when even your _grandma_ can look at the screen and say "oh dear...that doesn't look very fun".
Lol
Listen to your grandma kid she knows best
I’m a stupid idiot stupid dumb stupid face.
@@omarqassas7095 you replied to ur self anyways yah it’s so baaad
Me reading the TLDR: "DAYUM hahahahaha!!"
The IGN score for this game still makes me laugh. "6.9," immature jokes aside, is the closest you can get to a passing grade without actually passing. Sonic Forces gave the game journalists everything they wanted with no understanding of why they wanted it. Sega saw everyone's complaints that levels were too long and the gameplay was too complicated and the stories were too intrusive and childish (while also taking themselves too seriously somehow,) and they took everything in the exact opposite direction. Now, levels are too short and simple, while the story has super-dramatic beats that are too quick to sink in and have nothing to do with the levels. They do what they believe is the bare minimum for a success, paranoid that going any further would be labelled as a failure, and their reward is a grade that's just .1 shy of a college degree.
Thanks journalists for ruining a franchise you never loved anyway
And that's the problem! Sega doesn't listen to their fans, but they're completely willing to listen to their haters!
>.
@@Majokodomo Probably because at this point the fans and haters are indistinguishable from each other
Bro I just don't like the physics. It's too hard to control.
Arin Hanson and ProJared are the same way
I watched this one animation a while back. It was the scene with Tails trying to fix Omega. When Chaos tried to attack, he was body blocked by Classic Sonic, who was then caught in a bubble and almost drowned. Tails then picks up Omega's arm and uses his canon to free him, then chase off Chaos. Then Tails had to lead Classic Sonic, who was lost and hurt
Then Forces just has him cower in fear...
Found it! th-cam.com/video/tIfhrc0SSjE/w-d-xo.html
Yes Mike Darklighter’s video! He always writes Tails so much better than the games lmao
Here's the video: th-cam.com/video/tIfhrc0SSjE/w-d-xo.html
SEGA: I wonder what fans want to see in Sonic.... I KNOW, I'll do some research!
* opens Deviantart *
how the fuck did I get a like from the creator of the video already.
@@somerandomclown5576 1 year late but because you are true af
Famous last words
Sonic dating Sim when?
Sonic dating sim when?
Forces could've been so much more that what it was. Imagine if Eggman captured Sonic and friends, and you, practically a nobody that's suffered first-hand, having to rescue him and assemble a team to fight back? What if you had to fight a brainwashed Sonic and other characters? What if instead of just reusing old levels, they instead added a mechanical theme to show that Eggman had taken over and how it's changed everything? What if _you_ had to find the emeralds to go super? That would make you feel like a you earned the title of a hero. Seriously, I'm just throwing ideas out there, but anything would be better than the mess of a story Forces had.
Also, Classic needs to stick to his own dimension/time period and left in the care of Whitehead and Co. Wisps need to go away forever, but if they needed to have a similar gimmick, the different emeralds could have different special powers.
that would be cool and all, but if sonic isn't even allowed to feel emotions
do you really expect them ot put a fight with a brainwashed anyone
it'd be the coolest thing ever, having to save them but they're literally never gonna do that
Like Javier said, Sega's mandates on Sonic as a whole just kinda suck. As far as your idea for the plot goes, I love it, but Sega would never let anything that competent happen again. I personally love the portrayal of Sonic and the more serious storylines (even the ones that people see as "bad" or "too dark) throughout the Dreamcast and 2000s eras. Unfortunately, the general public does not feel the same as I, and I'd assume you as well, so I feel that we're just damned to mediocrity. I hope to be wrong, though.
Why you hate wisps?
But I like the wips
Edit: Most of them
@@ariastroke sad
"This is not a sequel, it will be a BRAND NEW experience."
I give Iizuka 4 more years until he gets the boot.
It's not a sequel. Generations was all about the contrast between modern and classic Sonic as we see a collection of returning zones from Sonic's entire history. In Forces, Classic Sonic is a non presence. He only has a few levels, and feels written into the story last minute. The only returning zones were Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Death Egg, and they serve more so as just interchangeable level themes.
@@RandomBoo256 It isn't a sequel but it sure as hell ain't much of a "BRAND NEW experience".
@@blackdot105 d e a d a s s .
It is technically a sequel to Sonic Mania
"I'm going to summarise this game's story with no remarks"
2 seconds later
"It starts with Eggman saying that he hates Sonic. Literally."
There's no remark there. What he's saying is what happens.
How many more chances does Iizuka get?? I mean, what’s it gong to take for SEGA to realize the extent of damage they’re imposing on their own franchise!?
I mean they think Arin Hanson is a fan of their franchise, so I'm not surprised at how dense they are.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 I’m guessing you’re talking about the Sonic Twitter Takeover, right?
@@FixyFlow I'm talking about Forces is the one game detractors of the series have next to no complaints about.
Iizuka is the one who actually cares about Sonic tho. Blame having an inexperienced team combined with certain policies at Sega not letting them work to their fullest potential. Iizuka has to work within the lines like everyone else and Sonic team can't be as free with how they develop games anymore.
@Dick Valiant Pretty much. Iizuka just relays orders to everyone. Post-Chronicle Sonic is when it really changed tbh.
I remember when people swore that Ken Pontac and Warren Graff were going to introduce the greatest narratives to Sonic.
Yeah, big mistake.
I remeber that...Colors high was something.
Give us the old writers
Ken Pontac and Warren Graff made Happy Tree Friends, which isn't known for its witty dialogue(Because the animals don't even talk), but it's more known for its Final Destination esque deaths on cutesy animals. So having them write baby jokes for a dialogue based series is a dumb idea.
@@turbobist2889 Did they do anything else besided Happy Tree Friends?
I love how there's like 4 instances of Green Hill showing up and yet we don't get the original, not even a remix of the most iconic Sonic song ever?
totally a missed opportunity
Because SEGA own no rights to that song, it could have been easily obtained though
@@JackLucasCaffrey THEN JUST USE THE GENERATIONS VERSION. (The act 2 one.)
@@hellomeloanimations8107 that also is not owned by SEGA. No version of the Green Hill Theme is, if they ever want to use it, they need the permission from Masato Nakamura
@@JackLucasCaffrey Then, just ask for permission.
Sonic forces has something I call shock drama
Shocking things intended to surprise the viewer in order to make an impact.
Like sonic dying and then like 5 minutes later being shown to be alive.
It's really lazy story telling and I don't feel like I'm in a war
It feels like Tuesday aka every time eggman "takes over the world" it surely doesn't feel like that.
we don't even see the extent of eggmans empire.
It just sucks.
Sega headquartered 2014:
Iizuka: ah yes we finally we finished developing sonic lost world I’m certain that the game will be a huge success oh and big red button is also developing sonic boom rise of lyric next year is gonna be a big year for sonic
-1 year later-
Iizuka: oh no, no one liked sonic lost world and sonic boom rise of lyric was a failure
A random sega employee: sir we are ready to start development on the next sonic game we we’re thinking of adding new mechani-
Iizuka: No! We are not gonna risk it we need to bring back old mechanics
Another random sega employee: I know sonic colors was a huge success we should bring back wisps also sonic fans love making OC’s on Devian art we should add that as a feature
Iizuka: that is genius
The first random sega employee: sir wouldn’t it be better to try new things
Iizuka: shut up your fired, With all of these new mechanics I’m certain that the next sonic game will be a huge success
Sega employee: but sir you all ready said tha
Iizuka: what did I tell you pack your stuff and leave now.
@@totodile4271 you should make an animation about this.
This is legit comedy gold.
@@edgelord8337
I’m not good at making animations but you can if you want to
I love your pfp and the game he's from
@@totodile4271 I mean I'm decent at drawing so maybe during the weekend I can do some art work about it.
I've always loved animation so if I get good I could try.
ShadowTH looking better with every new game, huh? Like seriously i completely changed my mind on it. The world DOES feel like its in ruin; everything is dark and hostile; theres disgusting slime all over jungles on prison island; characters all try to fight off and salvage the planet; continuity; great and satisfying ending; it felt GOOD killing black doom. It was immensely satisfying to learn more about ARK and to see the eclipse cannon defend the earth.
I miss this game now
As misguided as Sonic Team's efforts were with STH, at least they TRIED something, even if it didn't stick
@Baxi Tabaxi Begone, IGN Simp
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 Shadow the Hedgehog in a way was TOO ambitious. The high amount of levels, the multiple pathways, the weapon system, Shadow's Chaos powers, etc. If the game had been more streamlined, its story and progressive would've been received somewhat better.
Forces has no real ambition. Everything from story to levels to gameplay is very similar to the last few games, but watered down heavily.
@@casualvanilla Yeah, but at least STH had ambition, even if it was too much and wasn't streamlined. Sonic Forces just feels, emphty
Like I said, at least it tried SOMETHING that was more or less in line with the franchise anf while it didn't stick, that is at leasy something to look up
uhhh...no. It's still an unnecessary, badly structured, repetitive shooting gallery
Watching any cutscene with eggman being angry or anyone talking about eggman just feels like I’m watching a gunman hold me at gunpoint and continuously saying “I’m gonna do it, I really mean it” until the police arrive 5 hours later and kindly show him out of my house
This came out 3 years ago. It's been 3 years and nothing's really happened since then.
Wow... 3 years? Damn...
I remember forces coming out when i was 7 or 8 or something idk. It's a bit crazy for me knowing that came 3 years before.
They're probably scared of pulling another Sonic Boom and because of that they're trying not to release any new spin-of that isn't a re-hash of a previous formula, because Sega is too lazy to actually try to make things work at this point
We at least know they're working on something set to release next year. Absolutely no information on what this game will be like, though.
@@lazyladytired I'm terrified
@@blackdot105 i fear that the game won't be good... but idk...
Man it sucks that this game has so much lost potential.
Agree. Similar to 06 but at least it's playable
@@mep6302 I wouldn’t call going in a straight line “playable” since you barley get to move around because of all the invisible walls everywhere
@@theminecraft2516 At least Sonic 06 was fun to play
@@Nativefall Yeah 06’s stages like Crisis City, and Kingdom Valley are some of the best stages in the franchise. Forces doesn’t have a stage that even makes top 50 Sonic levels
Even though 06 has terrible controls, terrible gameplay, terrible level designs ( with the exception of Dusty Desert & Tropical Jungle in Sonic's ) & terrible stories.
The Phantom Ruby in Forces is like Disney Star Wars' version of the Force, it does whatever the writers want it to
I swear I agree
Bruh, the same applies to Chaos Emeralds in every game
@@aheiiv at least the Chaos Emeralds have some sort of set guidelines. Like I said, the Ruby is like *Disney's* Force, not og and prequel Force
True
I see a lot of similarities between what happened with this franchise and with Star Wars. Things were going good, the creators knew what they were doing, people loved what they were being given, everthing was fine. Unfortunately, there was a small subset of "fans" with a bloated sense of entitlement that wanted things to go back to the way they were "supposed to be", misunderstanding the franchise for what it has been since the beginning. Eventually, those "fans" started getting listened to and it ended up in the disastrous modern era of these franchises. The difference here is that while Star Wars as a franchise is currently being run by a corporation that didn' t create it but has at least a chance of being redeemed if they bring back the original creator, Sonic is being run by the original creator, yet there's no telling what might happen in the future. Also, Sega put themselves in the position they're in by, instead of picking themselves back up after Sonic 06, becoming desperate for anything that might make a quick buck.
you know a stage that does a better job at changing the level over time, better than forces sand hill?
Sonic and knuckles, Mushroom hill. A level that changes seasons as you run through.
because of Robotnik's evil season-changing machine pointed at the sky.
Gotta love how a 1993-1994 Mega Drive game has better storytelling than a ±2018 AAA game. :)
Sonic Forces you to step back and re-evaluate your life choices
It's been 3 years since Sonic Forces? Wow. It still feels like it's been more recent to me.
Nolans sucks, LOL. #MommysBoys4Life
3 years later since that game and I am starting in a better game called be a athlete and it has a better story I have ran 278 miles since August and have ran 3 miles in 21 minutes and 57 seconds and a half marathon 13.1 miles in 1 hour 57 minutes and 37 seconds
@@distancerunner6211 okay
@@distancerunner6211 ok, tell that to your non-existent friends
6 years now
On the Phantom Ruby, I thought itd make sense in 2 different ways.
1. The Phantom Ruby was originally from Mania's timeline (Which I believe while it is the same Classic Sonic from Generations however when Generations happened the timeline split a la Ocarina of Time, that would explain how both Adventure and the two worlds thing being canon) and Eggman tried to duplicate it so he could have an even more powerful army, however when that turned out to be a bust he decided to weaponize the one Phantom Ruby he had as much as possible
or
2. Eggman tried mass producing Phantom Ruby's after some sort of scientific breakthrough and one happened to fuck with the dimensional-time-space whatever and opened a portal in Mania in the sky (or space) hitting Angel Island, plunging it into the ocean, kicking off Mania.
Is any of this hinted in the game? HA! No, thatd require effort on Sonic Team's part, but after playing through the game a few times these either two could make the most sense to me, though I tend to lean more towards the 1st one.
There's a prequel comic where Eggman just finds the Phantom Ruby just in his front lawn, sees its potential and is like "Oh yeah I wanna make like a million of these"
So basically the 1st one is right.
I'm pretty sure Mania's Ruby actually did have the ability to warp reality-- physically teleporting you to different places, with the Ruby Mist being a by-product. Forces' Ruby feels like a copy-- an imperfect attempt to make a more controllable version, e.g. one the doctor would trust Infinite with. It's generally not a good idea to give an unstable subordinate unlimited power, so maybe the artificial Ruby was meant to be a sort of failsafe?
All can i say in defense to this emo colored stone is that you can DIE irl if your brain thinks so because your brain thinks you're dead and so shuts off the heart and so no blood wich mean no air. So yeah
Why weren't you in LS mark's Sonic Forces Stream? I thought you were his best friend.
He was, SpeedSuperSonic just uses a LSMark voice changer for this channel
@@theminecraft2516 i knew it. His voice sounded TOO similar
You know, this game has a uncanny resemblance to the story of satam, a television series that actually had a world ruled by robotnik. And it was a kick-ass robotnik too.
You had entire cities completely roboticized, Sonic's uncle and even his dog were affected and barely anyone escaped minus a few that joined the freedom fighters. Hell, you had a robotic who flung a wizard into a alternate dimension and trapped him in there along with Sally acorn's dad. This robotnik was actually badass and his ego was what made him lose in the end. He could have killed Sonic when he had him captured in one episode, where he would have flung him into that same alternate dimension, but he still had to make a pinball machine and play with the little rodent.
worst part yet, there was supposed to be a game based on this concept on the Sega Genesis years ago. It never came to fruition, and what we got, was this years later. I know that neither one of these Sonic things have anything to do with each other, but it was obvious where the inspiration came from.
It's just that the TV show did it infinity times better.
I remember Yuji naka said no when he saw the game prototype,kinda wish he was still around
As did Archie.
Wait SatAM had sonic used as a pinball? That explains Sonic Pinball game, I never beat it but did notice it didn't 'fit' with all the other games. Never saw the show as a kid but I was able to play it through Sonic Mega Collection on the Gamecube. It's a great concept hopefully they can nail the execution.
@@starkiller1289 that's correct! It was a later episode, but robotnik made an entire pinball machine where the gutter (just that hole at the bottom of every pinball machine) had a portal to the alternate dimension just waiting for him.
I can't remember which one came first, but both ideas are still things I wish Sega would go back to.
At least the guys behind Sonic mania Sonic team now can't do crap right.
I think it's funny how a Rookie and Sonic (or maybe 2 Sonics) can stop Infinite and all Eggman plans, but the Ultimate Life form, a hedgehog with Psychokinesis powers, a governament spy and all the Sonic cast can't do anything in six months :P
*Why do we Sonic fans have to suffer?*
Cos we don't know what we want
Being a Sonic fan is an abusive relationship
@@Jtmissile Yes we do. We want the Adventure formula to be the spearhead of the modern Sonic IP.
@@eezium First, end Sonic Team. There shouldn't be a specific team that only makes Sonic games, otherwise the passion runs out, like we' re seeing now. Maybe give the rights to actually make the games to a studio like Insomniac. Second, get writers who actually care about the story prior Heroes. Maybe get the writers of Unleashed. Third, no meddling whatsoever and give the dev team as much time and as many delays as they need. Fourth, make a remake of Adventure 1 & 2. Finally, make Adventure 3. Continue and maintain a level of quality control. There, foolproof plan.
Us Mario fans have had to put up with the exact same plot for 35 years.
Remember when Tails spent all of Sonic Adventure 1 nutting up? You know, like CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT?!
It looks like they forgot tails had a character development. And that, makes me very mad because of it.
Either that, or they just decide to scrap that and any sort of continuity, which would make it even worse
Remember in SA2 Sonic "died" and instead of whining like a little bitch for Sonic to save him, Tails was realized he had to finish what Sonic started, and stop Eggman.
I miss when Tails was an actual character and not just some helpless kid.
@@EveCat2343 I just hope sega does his character right in the future, like... c'mon Sega you really gotta do our favorite character like that?
Nevermind that. He was already a guy with the same abilities as Sonic in Sonic 2, fly a plane and even fight on his own in Sonic 3.
They aren't ignoring Adventure. They are also ignoring the original trilogy (Ironically despite having Classic Sonic)
Sonic Forces is a perfect representation of everything wrong with modern Sonic.
Ikr, the lack of character since colors, wasted story/villains since lost world, even its poor lazy level design from lost world. Like lost world was lazy ans boring but *ATLEAST* it felt like they somewhat tried- here its like they literally said *"fuck it!"*
I hate it when people call Sonic forces, and sonic Colors ....3d Sonic games? More like 2d Sonic games, Sonic unleased is the ONLY 3d Boost Sonic game
Note: I Am not calling Sonic Colors and Generations Trash but you should understand what I mean
@@Nativefall Colors is mostly 2D, but Generations had a pretty large amount of 3D in its modern levels, with only Planet Wisp overstaying it's welcome in that regard for me.
At least Colors was decent; for the Wii anyway, but the DS version is amazing. And Generations was an great game.
@@brycebitetti1402 agree
The worst part about this game for me is that there is some admittedly cool concepts in there which just get underused or mishandled.
A game where most of the resistance has been wiped out by eggman’s forces and now face an uphill battle is a pretty cool idea and kinda reminds of that old sonic cartoon. Sonic being kidnapped could have also led to some interesting character moments and even a conflict of interests between those that want to rescue him vs those who think he’s already dead. Chaos as well as the other villains returning is a kinda terrifying idea which could be used to exemplify how hopeless the situation our protagonists are in even if it’s not an original concept.
Seriously these are all good ideas but they screwed them over, especially Chaos,.. look how they massacred my boy
Sonic taking cool concepts and driving them into the ground admittedly is a trend that has kept on going since 06, and that trend really only stopped for Colors, which is why they won't make a game without the wisps anymore when they have no reason to even be here. It just results in the games having no identity whatsoever.
@@broom2839 unleashed werehog is better then wisps
Maybe its just me but when they said tails lost it I can imagine Tails just super pissed of at Sonic's death and going on a rage fueled but ultimately futile spree of destruction
One of my recent ideas on that is that he becomes a boss fight who attacks you out of fear hidden behind rage using his mechanical expertise and combat experience to attack you.
Yeah, if they weren’t gonna do anything with him “losing it,” why isn’t Tails the leader of the Resistance? I love Resistance Knuckles but Tails is literally Sonic’s sidekick, it just makes so much sense.
Well I mean adventure did it, dunno why it wouldn’t be possible
Sonic and knuckles mushroom hill zone got progrssivly worse by losing its seasons. Then you destroy the satellite and all the green returns.
Also bringing back the death egg was a huge missed opportunity. It was the plot point and main objective in sonic 2+3k. But now it just sits there for no reason and without a master emerald to power it either.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but sonic 4 made the return of the Death egg MK2 a huge deal and made it more effective than forces
4 Episode 2 was decent
You know a game is bad when Sonic 4 supersedes it.
@@Onaterdem the only reason 4 episode 2 is worth anything is cus of metal sonic’s presence
@@traktor420 Disagree. Sonic 4 Ep 2 is one of the most beautiful Sonic games
Man, I miss the days of of Jason Griffith. The days where Sonic actually had a character and didn't just spout out jokes every 5 seconds he is on screen
Same here
That literally has nothing to do with the writing......it's just a voice actor lol
@@Soniman001 I’m talking about the era of the Sonic Franchise when he was voiced by Jason Griffith.
Facts😞
Forces didn't had those jokes every 5 seconds though
Forces is so boring i forgot the game exists
Exactly
Same. This game doesn't exist to me (along with the 2010 Sonic Era).
@@halfhawk718 *Cough* Generations.
@@kyleorenberg5743 That doesn't count either.
@@halfhawk718 Gameplay: Good
Visuals: Amazing
Plot, Worldbuilding, Characters, Emotional Moments, Jokes, Effort, Investment in the Story: What's that?
In retrospect having Tails and Knux on the game cover for Forces was grade A bait to take advantage of the success of Mania.
Yet neither Tails nor Knux are playable in Forces, Tails is depicted as a helpless coward who can't even beat Egg pawns and Knux is depicted as an incompetent leader whose role as guardian is forgotten (unless you read the tie-in comic lol!).
Imagine how dark af this game could have been if it was well written
Dark like the Avatar finding Sonic in prison with his legs broken? Maybe finding out that Eggman was using the real Infinite to create more rubies, and when we actually find him he's covered in crystals growing out of every part of his body along with some badniks mining them off of him? How about Tails 'losing it' meaning he hasn't left his workshop in months? People have to bring him food to make sure he doesn't starve and often find him passed out at his desk next to a pile of scrapped designs that takes up an entire corner of the room.
Two words:
Holy fuck
I 'd love to see something like that
They probably were gonna make it genuinely dark but then realised that they would get made fun off for being serious by ign so they intentionally made it light enough to get brownie points from them.
Knowing the actual state of the franchise really makes me worried about what we will have in the future.
What state is it in?
@@BitchChill It's actually pretty solid... Solid as in "ashes remaining from a dumpster fire".
(I'm pretty proud of this comment, gotta remember that one)
Just hop in the bandwagon that is Balan Wonderworld, it's what I did when I found out it was made by the original Sonic Team(except for one member).
@@breannecandelaro8013 Yeah I'm into it, the game looks great
It is actually solid, considering the whole successful movie and comics thing
Sonic Forces me to want a new Adventure game already.
NOOOOOO WE NEEEEEED SONIC LOSTWORLD 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
man asking for another adventure game at this point of time is asking for trouble
it ain't gonna turn out well
No we obviously need more Green Hill, 2D, Classic Sonic and most importantly, Wisps!
@@theminecraft2516 i unironically think sonic lost world had alot of potential.
Eggman was in control of the world in Sonic 1. You saved the zones from Eggman's robots, changed the signpost to Sonic to signify your progress and fought eggman at the end of them.
That moment when the first game from the early 90s beats the newest game in storytelling
Old,but gold.
Forces in a nutshell:
"Here's a bit of almost everything from previous games with watered down character personalities"
0:58 orbot and cubot weren’t there yet when eggman did those things, well orbot was in unleashed, but it feels like he wouldn’t remember, or wasn’t aware of it or something
I feel like almost everyone has lost hope in sonic at this point, and unfortunately that includes me. if the next game blows, then sonic may be as good as *dead* and i'm scared that he may not come back this time :(
heck, even frigging crash bandicoot is more relevant than sonic now. which honestly isn't a problem (to me), but it still hurts sonic to a certain degree
Kinda like Pokemon is right now.
Just because crash has a good game does bot mean hes more relevant
Btw, is Crash 4 any good?
@@jjc4924 Crash 4 is really good.
@@sonic101official well you see that and crash has had about 3 new (and good) games in the past 3 years or so, sonic can't sell on his name alone anymore cus of how far he's fallen from grace.
therefore crash is more relevant than sonic at the time of this comment :P
That Sonic 1 footage is more broken than the world taken over by Dr. Eggman.
and the sonic unleashed gameplay was also glitchy becuse he was moving too fast for the game to process
@@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780 the rendering seems to be from Xenia
Sonic forces seems like a ten year old's self-insert Sonic Fanfiction
Makes perfect sense! The story is pretty childish (true dat, anyone?)
-_-
@Baxi Tabaxi The problem isn't that people are still criticizing the game (which it deserves, since it's not very good). The problem is that this presents a long-term problem with the series. If the story is going to be written as childishly as possible, no one's going to take it seriously anymore. And while we don't play Sonic games for story, it was capable of decent plotlines, so we were still engaged in playing the game. But something like THIS makes the series look like a joke and hardly gives us a reason to care why we should even stop the main threat. And that's the REAL problem! If Sega's not going to take this seriously, why should we?
>.
@Baxi Tabaxi Are you still saying that? You do realize that this is simply a look back at the game to see where it went wrong? And it's the most recent mainline Sonic game, so of course people are still talking about it. What other game is there to talk about? This game is a perfect example of the sad, pathetic state the series is in right now!
>.
@Baxi Tabaxi "mOvE oN" Please, go ahead and start saying that to every major event in history then, see where that takes you.
@Baxi Tabaxi "DoN't AsK qUeStIoNs, CoNsumE PrOduCt"
* Knuckles being serious *
>Out of character
I'm pretty triggered as a longtime fan of the "real" Knux; not the dumbed-down meathead that's been the norm as of late.
Yeah, I'm a-ok with Knuckles being serious. His character has been mishandled so badly that people forgot where he came from. If anything, he's more in character in this one game than he's ever been in the last 15 years.
@@retron99 he’s still not in character, when we say ‘make knuckles serious’ we don’t mean to give’em lines like ‘none of this is good vector, that’s why it’s called war...’
Knuckles in Forces is still very out of character. He's not stupid but he'd never lead a whole army.
"rouge is like, a proper spy"
**sonic adventure 2 would like to have a word with you**
This game has done nothing but make me want another adventure game.
You really trust them with that right now? If they butchered the boost they may kill the adventure games
If they have time maybe tails can be playable.
@@dr.oswald5400 if they spent 1 year trying to make a sonic game with 3 playable characters that play similarly and failed. Im doubting they can make a game that relies on multiple playable characters tbh
@@dr.oswald5400 and? they could butcher that, too.
@@AK46supr what game do you mean?
As every Sonic game "It was a cool idea but..."
SA 1, 2 and Unleashed, 3&k and partly Mania beg to differ
I don't even think this game had any cool ideas.
@mr freakout I'd say it's a concept that's been around for a while. It's not something unique to the game, it's just that this game specifically, finally uses it.
@@blackdot105 Eggman Finds a Ruby that can turn every illusion in reality, can make an army by just thinking about it, can make unlimited energy for his machines and even creates a being with those same properties, But then, they screwed up that potential into a low-average game
>every
2000s: Sonic Heroes is really bad, man.
2020: Hey, it's kinda cool, ngl
@Unknown - -Idk about those last two but yeah-
@Unknown - waku waku sonic patrol car was always looked at as a masterpiece, what do you mean
Not for people like me. I always loved heroes and unleashed. I also still like black knight even though it isn't good.
@Unknown - waku waku sonic patrol car is a masterpiece
What do you mean
Sonic heroes is not even bad at all .
Everyone to Unleashed: "perhaps I treated you too harshly"
I always enjoyed the game for what it was, loved the new boost formula which so many people hated on
boost gameplay did more harm to the franchise then 06.
Why is tails such a wimp after fighting stronger versions of chaos in sonic adventure and blasting the yolk out of eggman in SA2?
@Ties de Jong No, he gets worse
The Emoji Movie’s immersion is 100x better than Sonic Forces’s
How hard did it take you to type this
Oh, forgot about that dumpster fire!
@@omaegaa so what about sonic 06 im pretty sure that is better then this boring shit 06 was fun becuse of what glitches you can find
No, they both suck
Tbh they’re equal
In comics, Eggman found Phantom Ruby from Mania and he has no idea what it is (due timeline split in Generations, so Tails should say different timeline, not dimension, but what do I know). After some testing he wanted to mass produce it , thus making prototypes (like Tails did Fake Emerald in SA2) and perfect copy that Infinite has and needs to recharge with generators in Death Egg and below Metropolis.
BUT after defeat, Infinite is pulled into reactor with Ruby... so it's not a copy... and they talk as if Infinite was created by Eggman too... I guess they forgot to redraft the script.
Also game implies that Infinite die, yet the game and IDW comics dont acknowledge that, cuz no one says he did or its not shown to us, so as far as I know he might be snooPING AS usual somewhere untill they decided that they want to bring him again (like with Shadow in SA2).
Good one...
Pretty sure if Infinite was sucked into a generator he either died or faced a fate worse than death due to mind fracturing from the ruby getting supercharged either way his physical body is probably gone. With how SEGA seldom reuses villains not named "Eggman" he's probably safe to be assumed dead. Very unlikely he's hanging out in the generator code ala Shadow in Vector's passcode missions.
Sucks you need to find the comics to get critical info like this though.
Comics should have the not so important questions
Sonic is claimed to be tortured but we don't see how that even affects him. He's just the same person he was before and after he was tortured. Why not show us how Sonic's personality has changed. Sonic is always a free spirit but it would be very surprising to the fans to see Sonic act differently; therefore we see the effects of being tortured. For 3 years now, I always imagined Sonic getting tortured like this: We know Sonic can't swim. How about Engman has Sonic in one of his bases and places Sonic into a tank the size of a, let's say you average gymnasium, the tanks fills up with water and Sonic can't swim. The water raises and it stops just enough for Sonic to keep his head above the water for air but the water is then electrocuted and Sonic cannot fight the pain of being electrocuted and keeping his head above water at the same time. Sonic would have no choice; it's either get the air or groan from the pain which by the way would make you drown. See? that is torture.
Then after Sonic is rescued by his pals we see that Sonic doesn't want to go at this alone. He asks his pals to accompany him on the missions. Let's for example he asks Vector and Espio to come with him on a mission. Now you don't need to play as Espio and Vector but they can be used as power ups to help in missions. Press a button that would call forth Espio to grab Sonic and he will use his shrunken and power of adhesion to stick to walls and spin along those walls as if you were using Spikes. Different characters could've been used as a helping hand but no, back then sonic team heavily relied on wisps.
After Sonic's rescue he could be being held at the base to make sure that he recovers, and that would be a great point to bring in other playable characters and the avatar.
I can imagine post-rescue sonic and the orher hedgehogs having a conversation like this:
Sonic: "you'd just send the recruit on a suicide mission?!? Are you that heartless?!?"
Shadow: "Yet you refused to go because of a little water. Are you truly that weak?"
Silver: "Whoa, Shadow! That's taking it way too far!"
Shadow: "Honestly, you're pathetic. Not even good enough to be your own fake. Y'know, the real sonic would've been out there taking down the death egg already by now. But now? All I see is a pale imitation of the real thing"
@@sev1120 okay that dialogue alone is pure badass. 😃 it actually sounds like something Shadow would say and it definitely shows how evident it is of Sonic’s spirit being shattered. Knowing Silver and his persona from 06, it does sounds like Silver would make such a defense at Sonic’s side. Excellent quotes there, friend.
@@voiceacticon667 thanks! I have some more quote ideas for interactions between the characters, if you're interested in reading them?
@@sev1120 DAMN RIGHT IM INTERESTED. It will be nice to listen to some good dialogue unlike the garbage from the game itself.
@@voiceacticon667 Here's some examples
Just after Sonic has been captured
Sonic: "Eggman! I won't let you win!"
Eggman: "Eggman, Eggman, Eggman. How I despise that name... The name YOU gave me! But don't worry, your friends won't live long enough to mourn you"
Sonic: "you won't win!"
Eggman: "Hohoho, but sonic... I already have..."
-------------------------------------
Partway through Sonic's torture
Eggman: "I'm a world conquering genius, but I'm not a monster. I've brought a friend here for you"
*'amy' walks into the room*
Sonic: "Amy?!? A-are you alright?"
'amy': "Oh Sonic... I can't believe you fell for the *I love you* schtick! You've always been pathetic..."
Sonic: "W-what the hell?"
'amy': *grabs a large hammer* "time for some real fun"
----------------------------
After "amy's" meeting with Sonic
'amy': "Man, that was fun..."
Eggman: "drop that miserable disguise"
*"Amy's body melts away, revealing Zina of the Zeti (got no clue how to spell that)*
Zina: "He really has gotten pathetic. I can't believe the rebels are still holding out, anyway"
Eggman: *presses a button on his egg mobile* "Neither do I" *Zina's body melts away into glitching pixels, revealing she was a phantom ruby construct*
------------------------------------
Upon Sonic's rescue
Tails: "Sonic! You're alive!"
Knuckles: "Tails! Give him space!"
Amy: "What happened?"
*Amy taps Sonic on the shoulder*
Sonic: "Don't touch me!"
----------------------------
"None of this is good Vector, That's why it's called war"
3:11 Words, can not describe the visceral anger I feel towards this scene
Correction: Infinite didn't just "quit", *he got sucked into the generator.*
Kinda grim, but knowing how his entire motivation is based around getting called "weak".. Not much of value was lost.
I thought the Ruby got ripped out of him by Eggman after it dragged him to the generator,,
@@jinxkitty3122 In some way? Revisiting this after months, some "free camera" mod revelaed the truth: Infinite just *dissolves*
Overworking the Ruby?
@@charmyzard
Huh.. He finally got some water with that salt-
Thanks for the information also, that's kinda weird,, XD
Wow that’s cool, would have been cool if I had a way of knowing that
@@traktor420 Yeah. It had to be found by a "Behind The Scenes" free camera mod. You can find it on gamebanana.
What really bothers me about the Phantom Ruby, is the fact that it basically makes Infinite God, but then he and Eggman still end up losing.
Like, Infinite could have been like "The floor is lava" and they would have won instantly. Or make them believe they're in the sun instead of slowly dropping it on them
Did this video really just say it's out of character for Rouge to be a spy?
Isn't that what she was at first?
@@windandfireproductions5358 but in SA2 she literally said she was giving up that line of work
did you just not watch the full video?
Infinite: Can literally create anything, like a fucking star
Also infinite: Makes clones of Chaos 0, base Shadow, Zavok (cause...marketing for Lost World?), and base Metal Sonic. Not a fuck ton of Perfect Chaos’s, Super Shadow’s, Perfect Dark Gaia’s and Metal Overlords.
After this, I'm giving sonic team ONE last chance. I'm so sick of getting excited for something only to receive a half assed game. If Sega pulls this thing again I'm losing faith in them.
Let's just hope for sonic frontiers
All I’m saying is.... at least he didn’t have blue arms
At least that was the best thing coming out of Sonic in the 2010's along with Colors, Generations & Mania.
@@jjc4924 Also Team Sonic Racing wasn't that bad. I know everybody forgot it but it was a fun, enjoyable game
Sonic the Werehog. To be honest, I forgot that game exist. Even than by the looks at it, it isn't bad. But it isn't as good as the previous Sonic & All-Stars Racing.
@@Sonic_the_hedgedog But it was an outright downgrade from Transformed, just like how Forces was an outright downgrade from Generations
Onater. Exactly.
The whole other dimension thing pissed me off too when i saw that... Like... Huh???? Wtf was the point of Generations again?
Ok Sega.
Part 4: End me.
Same.
The phantom ruby is a magic thing called a macguffin
so like most things in media
8:35 I love the fact that everything he says about the characters is fixed in Netflix's Sonic Prime with the New Yoke City. Each character is completely different from the way they are portrayed in the games. Rouge goes from seductive to being the leader, Knuckles keeps that war type aspect from Sonic Forces, Amy goes from crazy for Sonic to part cyborg, Big is Big, and Tails (my favorite change) does what the Tails in Sonic Forces should have done and gotten a more badass look and complete change in character. I also enjoy how they each got a different look to fit the environment even though all worlds in that show do that.
There’s atleast 7 versions of “Fist Bump” in this game. *7* DIFFERENT VERSIONS, Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) only had 3 versions of it’s main theme
The cliche credit song was used to be a song of hope for the future but you managed to do the complete opposite with it...nice writing
Isn’t green hill an island why is it on a continent
Don't question the sonic
Yup South Island and the only city like area is Starlight Zone. But no mention or references are made to it. Heck remember South Island has a always active volcano with lava burying a ancient city.
Why isn't chemical plant in west side island?
@@acousticslayer5883 well a chemical plant could be built anywhere on the sonic world but green hil can’t we built
@@Technogeek6487 See thats how you worldbuild. Cool shit that stays consistent
Sonic froces is an average mess hope the next game will be good with full cutscenes,no cring dialogue,good story,no classic sonic,3D modles that have emotions and mario odyssey kinda of modles(not saying the 3D modles we have are bad).And lastly generations like boost. Also let sonic and freinds do something instead of crying about sonic.
They should try making a 3D sonic game that doesn’t make you follow a specific path to the goal and lets you go different pathways like a more advanced sonic adventure. The gameplay should complement exploration too.
Look how they massacred my boi tails...
@@VirtuousAezon sa1 and generations had the best explorative sonic levels. Why couldn't they replicate that in forces
@@AK46supr because they got lazy and gave the game to newbies.
Lets be honest the current 3D models are derpy
In sonic adventure, tails could fight chaos but in forces he’s too scared of him like.....what ?
Just fix the plot of Shadow the Hedgehog and make it structured like Fire Emblem Three Houses
I guarantee that it would be a better plot than Forces
And get rid of the Lost World level design leader
Have actual world building and continuity, like Sonic Chronicles.
It's already a better plot than forces, no changes needed. Forces sets a VERY low bar lol
21:17 fun fact:in sonic adventure(you know the 1998 dreamcast launch title)in sky deck if you pay atencion you can see that you are destroying part of the egg carrier wing throughout the level.
The attention to detail...
Too bad you clip through it every 5 seconds
The first song used is “We can”: Team Sonic’s theme from heroes
At least Fist Bump kinda slaps.
But yeah, you're 100% on point with this. Forces did my two tailed best boy filthy.
I absolutely LOVE the concept of Sonic Forces. I’m angry that the execution was so botched.
18:13
Why isn’t Lost Word a trash can, too?
Bad story, hit or miss gameplay, other than that it's not _that_ bad? Is it?
@@Onaterdem
If you take away the abysmal story and awful gameplay, Sonic 06 is pretty good. If you take away the good parts of sonic generations or sonic 3, they are really bad games.
Duh lol.
But you are right, it’s not THAT bad. It’s very, VERY mediocre, it’s not a trash can, it’s a trash bin. That’s less insulting.
@@peppinoandweskerfriendsfor3450 True lol
But, like, I mean, the story is _rarely_ good in Sonic games and the gameplay isn't terrible, it's just an experimentation (that isn't too bad, just hit or miss as I said, some people aren't gonna prefer that as *Sonic's* gameplay), so I wouldn't say there is anything insultingly bad about the game, unlike 06's gameplay or Elise (Deadly Six is pretty mediocre but not Elise levels of bad), or Boom's unfinishedness, yaknow.
If anything, I absolutely love the level concepts. And the overall artstyle is pretty consistent and actually decent looking. They went cartoony but did it pretty well. My opinion of course.
P.S. Forces' soundtrack is REALLY below average for a Sonic OST. Lost World's is pretty good. That's a dealbreaker for me. I actually genuinely enjoy 06 partly because of the music _(and partly because I absolutely love Shadow's representation in the story, but mostly because I think the glitches are so much fun)_ even though I definitely admit that it's a pretty bad and unfinished game. Like lmao they couldn't even make the gems use Sonic's energy bar??? What??? That's SUCH an easy thing to do?? x'D
@@Onaterdem If you like the level themes, try New Super Mario Bros
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Mario always has great level themes and consistently good games. Such a shame that I don't really enjoy Mario and am kinda addicted to Sonic. Gameplay, general mood, music style etc. are among the many reasons. Unfortunately just the level themes and quality/polish aren't enough :/
Why do they keep insisting on using the Deadly Six (and more specifically, Zavok)?
They're not compelling nor interesting as (side) villains.
Even previous Sonic antagonists were better than them.
Apparently, they want Zavok to be Sega's answer to Bowser...... even though Bowser's a far better character than Zavok ever wishes he was!
-_-
@@Majokodomo I... actually liked zavok... 😐 but wow even that insult isn’t compared to how much his potential to be a greater guy and the potential to have an much better story for him. And the worst part? Even Sega might not even try it this time if the fans end up begging for them to bring in a shitty reference to an pedo and an killer (projerid and Egoraptor respectively), yeah a very hard problem, and one that sega must learn along the way, if they ever did care... what an asshole the game grumps are now. T___T
What’s funny is that Mario games have hardly any plot at all yet still perform perfectly
funny thing is in one of the adventures games, when sonic 'died' because of Eggman, tails was ready to kill
I DID NOT EXPECTED TO HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT SONIC CD.
I love it.
My main issue with this game is the disappointing fact that everything is just an ilussion and it affects sonic mania too. Remember the early teaser? The one where there was Metal sonic, Chaos, Shadow and even Zavork for some reason.
Everyone was like "EVERYONE IS HERE!!" "WHY SHADOW IS EVIL AGAIN??" "CHAOS IS BACK?!".
But guess what? All of this was just an ilussion.
Now with the sonic mania thing, stuff like hard boiled heavies, metal sonic kai and hell probably even stages like stardust speedway were all ilussion
Then that one Sonic game with cars comes out and they're all having fun and racing with eggman who just disappeared at the end of forces and everything is back to normal.
I don’t think TSR is part of the series’ canon...
“This presents a problem.”
- E-102 “Gamma”
1998
I miss him.
Tail saying *true dat* echoes in the back of my head, It just; wasn't the best choice of lines.
4:23 guys, remember when Tails beat Chaos in his quarter form?
Takashi Iizuka' smile represent every Sonic games he does.
Fake, half-assed, and eye-rolling to look at?
Couldn't have said it better myself, @AkameGaKillfan777
“Why are you so negative!? LSMark is a much better reviewer than you.”
Honestly, if people actually have fun with this game, ALL i ask is to get refund, delete the game and get it on Torrent. I don't want to more games like this and Takashi " absolutely clueless " Isuka can be really easily misguided
Finally somebody who knows the truth
@mr freakout same
I would excuse it if the minion at least had a human head.
Like a yellow chick in a minion outfit. But no. It needed to be a real minion.
Ya guys are kink shaming? Damn that's tough... And no, the Minion PFP kinda scares me but I seen of all of Rule 34 anyways so nothing really phase's me anymore. Ahahahaha, Im fucked I know.
Once I saw those images comparing the credits of level designers from the last few mainline Sonic games, I think I understood at least one reason why Forces is bad; Sonic Team have been bleeding talent like a stuck pig
This is exactly why Sonic Team should hire Ian Flynn to write games. They should have hired him a long time ago. He's been writing amazing Sonic stories for 15 years. What are you waiting for, Sega!?!?
Fan theory: When generations happened, Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic split into 2 universes. Now they just coexist together and Classic Sonic could travel to the Modern universe if he wanted to by using a big ring.
Also, the Phantom Ruby was found by Eggman on Angel Island in Sonic Mania. Modern Eggman had the emerald because Classic Eggman had it so Modern Eggman decides to improve it and then fuse it with Infinite
And Null Space is just Egg Reverie Zone
8:17 Knuckles was always supposed to be serious. Sonic Heroes ruined and destroyed everything Knuckles was supposed to be.
cough cough Sonic 3 and K
I think it also ruined Rouge