Imo scout's ambushes should give you first effect if you either flipped from conceal to engage OR attack not ready operative and second one if you do both
I think Phobos also should get fight and shoot twice in 1 Ploy. That should be standard with elites, they need to be effective with every point of their APL.
You forgot a buff to Justian. Give the heavy gunner a handle so he can move the full four inches and still shoot. All that team needs to be better. Cause two heavy operatives on one six man kill team is rough.
Is a big part of the Elucidians strength the lack of elites in the meta? should they get some sort of "overchaged battery" equipment to give them P1 on lasguns to prepare them for marines return?
maybe instead of making Yaegirs 5inch movement like the Salvagers, you could give them a good Strategic Ploy that’s along the lines “If a unit makes no fighting, shooting, or mission actions this turning point, give them 6inches (or maybe even 7 inches) of movement.” This would feed into the idea of them Scouting forward at the beginning of the game or to reposition, but still technically being slow. Or maybe just give them the Krieg free dash at the beginning of the game
I wouldnt mind if free traverse was a strategic ploy. Vaulting for 1 CP: Until the end of the Turning Point, friendly VOID-DANCER TROUPE operatives can traverse for free if a friendly Void-Dancer Troupe operative is within Circle of activated operative that is traversing.
Honestly dont think legionaries should be buffed without having mark of nurgle nerfed/changed imo. Instead of it being essentially a guaranteed crit save on every defense it should be that you can always retain a save as a normal save regardless of cover or something. Pure personal opinion but the crit save mostly stops any shooting damage you can get and with how good they are in melee it feels very opressive when you struggle to do chip damage before they get to you. Id like to see some power from the nurgle mark shifted over so there's more reasons to go any of the other ones. Im no professional though so take it with a grain of salt.
I know this question is kind of out of the blue, but I've been thinking of getting into kill team by making an all tempestus scion kill team, are they still available to play as a dedicated kill team? Also where exactly can I keep myself updated on the kill team rules?
@@CanYouRollaCrit It's a good team if your dice are at least average. Would be nice if their reroll ploys weren't so restrictive. "One reroll if your operative's favorite color is blue and the target operative is a sagittarius and mercury is currently in retrograde. - 1 CP"
@@CanYouRollaCritsimilar to harlequins, if your not a decent player or don’t understand their tricks, they can curbstomp, otherwise they fall, especially to elites. Give the BoK some p1 or even ap1 on the dire avengers, especially the DA exarch, he’s an embarrassment. If not AP1, maybe 5 attacks with avenger catapults.
@@salmanhamid9911 I agree, they're really inconsistent in terms of damage output. Maybe more free access to rerolls, or even 5 attacks on the melee operatives. Their utility is pretty great, and they're a lot of fun, but they whiff so hard sometimes. Maybe Balanced on the DA catapult as well.
Huh. Nothing positive for Blades of Khaine? I'm not sure how they are in the meta, seems like they could take a little boost. 5 attacks on those melee ops or something.
We have discussed and I agree on the needed buffs for the Scouts. I think the Intercession would be better to just undo the nerfs to Durable and Methodical, and leave Rapid as it is changed. The nerfs to those were a mistake IMO from the start (but you know that LOL) I think Kasrkin can be fixed by the change to BS3 (which they should have been in the beginning). They are not Scions, so they should probably not have equal WS and BS rolls with the same number of attacks from my perspective. Overall, excellent job, John!!! 👍 I
Actually my bigger annoyance with the nerf to Intercession was not the Durable one but the Methodical one. They are Space Marines. They have bolter discipline and bolter drill abilities that exceed others in almost all versions of 40K. I think the mechanism for Elite points for Kasrkin is just a mess period. Not a well thought out design mechanism IMO. I know they wanted to make them somehow different from Scions or Vet Guard, but I think this was a lousy way to do it. Just my $0.02.
Na durable and methodical were way too strong and unenjoyable to play against. Anyone who didn’t play intercession would agree. At one point in the meta intercession were an S tier team and the BEGINNER team, it was so stupid that someone with very little skill could turn up at a tournament and do well with that team.
As an intercession player, I agree with your buff recommendations. I would also like to see the roster change to include leviathan units (flamers) so it is a better entry team for 40k players
Some of your suggestions are quite good. I’m doubtful they’ll do another Balance Dataslate before the next edition drops. Maybe if it gets pushed to Q3/Q4 because of logistics issues they’ll do one.
I feel like the amount of nerfs imposed onto the Fellgors is getting ridiculous at this point. The team is already difficult to play on a casual level, if only 1% of the playerbase can use them correctly while pulling out some weird and obscure competitive tricks, what's the point ?
Blades of Khaine for sure need a buff, no AP weapons only one blast and no good Inv save compared to mandrakes and harlequins is baffling, you have to your best and kill on your activation or die on the opponent one. Also exaction squad needs a buff, a police shouldn't be hitting on melee less than a veteran XE
You're right about the hiding, it's been insane since we could do it with the mining laser. The balance dataslate change for Wyrmblade shouldn't have been cumbersome and so on, it should have been a third cult agent. Let us take a Sanctus, Locus, and Kelermorph. The agents are the fun part of the team!
The ONLY criticism I have is you said “we all thought Kasrkin was great” but we did not all think that sir. Jesh and I took a bold stance on them being dog water. Other than one specific guy also in purple doing well with them no one else has really found success.
what i would add to a Legionaries killteam, is that the annointed should be able to do mission actions and pick up actions just for +1APL (2 APL averagely) so that he cant be locked up in a room id ITD, as other deamons and "stupid" operatives in the game operate the similar. and it would be nice also to let him chose when during his activation he wants to turn into a deamon
Thanks for this balance dataslate preview john
#notaplaytester 🥲🥲🥲
Scouts strategic ploys gunfire and blade ambush should be one ploy combined. Call it “ambush”
Oooh interesting, why not gunblade ambush? 👀😂
@@CanYouRollaCrit Nah i am voting for "Hit and Run Exercise"
Yaegirs not at 6in baffles me. They should be faster than their heavier hearthkyn kin.
Actually Votann are powered by paradoxes. The more armour they wear, the lighter and faster they get
I'm still holding out for some Farstalker damage ups.
Me too but it's been so long 🥲
It's our time this balance pass, I'm sure of it! (I say yet again...)
@@BigTexJthe first stage of grief is denial
I'd love to see a video of your wish list for a Kill Team '24 (3.0). Changes to rules, changes to model kits, changes to whatever.
I've already done that video last year aha
@@CanYouRollaCrit Well....uhhhh, maybe a Summer 2024 edition? 😆
Imo scout's ambushes should give you first effect if you either flipped from conceal to engage OR attack not ready operative and second one if you do both
Heirotek circle are just perfect
Nah reanimation needs tweaking but they're doing fine atm
I think Phobos also should get fight and shoot twice in 1 Ploy. That should be standard with elites, they need to be effective with every point of their APL.
Yeah I'm down with that
Considering double fight is pointless on them and that would give him normal 4 ploys - it would just make it nice and tidy
Warpcoven also gets that
Approximately what day would the new Balance DataSlate be released?
Last week of June
"Just leave blooded alone" - Agree
LEAVE BLOODED ALONE 😭
You forgot a buff to Justian. Give the heavy gunner a handle so he can move the full four inches and still shoot. All that team needs to be better. Cause two heavy operatives on one six man kill team is rough.
Oh yeah it deffo needs cumbersome too, or just lose heavy. So weird
The justian heavy gunner doesn't even have 6" normal moves lol
@@Skhmt I just meant full movement instead of just a dash. I will fix the comment.
@@CanYouRollaCrit oh yeah just lose heavy. The dude has a gravis armor!
I played them this weekend and he only got a kill from shoot on death
Is a big part of the Elucidians strength the lack of elites in the meta? should they get some sort of "overchaged battery" equipment to give them P1 on lasguns to prepare them for marines return?
Striders are very strong now but still have dat lance
maybe instead of making Yaegirs 5inch movement like the Salvagers, you could give them a good Strategic Ploy that’s along the lines “If a unit makes no fighting, shooting, or mission actions this turning point, give them 6inches (or maybe even 7 inches) of movement.” This would feed into the idea of them Scouting forward at the beginning of the game or to reposition, but still technically being slow. Or maybe just give them the Krieg free dash at the beginning of the game
They're already so CP intensive that it'd just mess em up imo
@@CanYouRollaCrit yeah you might be right. maybe make it a base rule? not sure tbh 5inches movement might just be easier ig
Harlequins get free traverse? 👀
I would but they've actually been doing fine 😅
I wouldnt mind if free traverse was a strategic ploy. Vaulting for 1 CP: Until the end of the Turning Point, friendly VOID-DANCER TROUPE operatives can traverse for free if a friendly Void-Dancer Troupe operative is within Circle of activated operative that is traversing.
Honestly dont think legionaries should be buffed without having mark of nurgle nerfed/changed imo. Instead of it being essentially a guaranteed crit save on every defense it should be that you can always retain a save as a normal save regardless of cover or something. Pure personal opinion but the crit save mostly stops any shooting damage you can get and with how good they are in melee it feels very opressive when you struggle to do chip damage before they get to you. Id like to see some power from the nurgle mark shifted over so there's more reasons to go any of the other ones. Im no professional though so take it with a grain of salt.
I'd take a nurgle mark nerf but it's unlikely sadly
A ref to avatar ? You have my like
Now just try my cactus juice 👀
I know this question is kind of out of the blue, but I've been thinking of getting into kill team by making an all tempestus scion kill team, are they still available to play as a dedicated kill team? Also where exactly can I keep myself updated on the kill team rules?
They're in the compendium section (:
For cadia should be a 3" bubble to get a group charge on!
Would love it but be too good 😅
This would more be an internal balance thing, but would you agree with the sentiment that Legionary Slaanesh and Undivided could use something?
I actually think both are fine, I actually run Slaanesh and Nurglr myself
@@CanYouRollaCrit undivided is not fine, they need help
No Blades of Khaine changes? I think they really need some help!
They are doing really well in general, I have no idea how 😅😂
@@CanYouRollaCrit It's a good team if your dice are at least average. Would be nice if their reroll ploys weren't so restrictive. "One reroll if your operative's favorite color is blue and the target operative is a sagittarius and mercury is currently in retrograde. - 1 CP"
@@CanYouRollaCritsimilar to harlequins, if your not a decent player or don’t understand their tricks, they can curbstomp, otherwise they fall, especially to elites. Give the BoK some p1 or even ap1 on the dire avengers, especially the DA exarch, he’s an embarrassment. If not AP1, maybe 5 attacks with avenger catapults.
@@salmanhamid9911 I agree, they're really inconsistent in terms of damage output. Maybe more free access to rerolls, or even 5 attacks on the melee operatives.
Their utility is pretty great, and they're a lot of fun, but they whiff so hard sometimes.
Maybe Balanced on the DA catapult as well.
5 attacks butcher would be fantastic!
Make the Butcher viable outside of ITD 😂
Huh. Nothing positive for Blades of Khaine? I'm not sure how they are in the meta, seems like they could take a little boost. 5 attacks on those melee ops or something.
Via the stats they're popular and doing well
@@CanYouRollaCrit oh good. Cheers man
Exaction squad needs help and Voidancers need free move throw barricades atleast
Both teams have been doing well at events and even winning some tho
No buffs for Death Guard Poxwalkers? 😉
No compendium sadly
We have discussed and I agree on the needed buffs for the Scouts.
I think the Intercession would be better to just undo the nerfs to Durable and Methodical, and leave Rapid as it is changed. The nerfs to those were a mistake IMO from the start (but you know that LOL)
I think Kasrkin can be fixed by the change to BS3 (which they should have been in the beginning). They are not Scions, so they should probably not have equal WS and BS rolls with the same number of attacks from my perspective.
Overall, excellent job, John!!! 👍
I
Nah the original intercession nerfs are need, durable should not be reversed
Kasrkin can be BS3 if elite points are removed
Actually my bigger annoyance with the nerf to Intercession was not the Durable one but the Methodical one. They are Space Marines. They have bolter discipline and bolter drill abilities that exceed others in almost all versions of 40K.
I think the mechanism for Elite points for Kasrkin is just a mess period. Not a well thought out design mechanism IMO. I know they wanted to make them somehow different from Scions or Vet Guard, but I think this was a lousy way to do it. Just my $0.02.
Na durable and methodical were way too strong and unenjoyable to play against. Anyone who didn’t play intercession would agree.
At one point in the meta intercession were an S tier team and the BEGINNER team, it was so stupid that someone with very little skill could turn up at a tournament and do well with that team.
As a marine player I hope for a change like that
It could happen 🥲
As an intercession player, I agree with your buff recommendations. I would also like to see the roster change to include leviathan units (flamers) so it is a better entry team for 40k players
Yeah that'd be great too
Some of your suggestions are quite good. I’m doubtful they’ll do another Balance Dataslate before the next edition drops. Maybe if it gets pushed to Q3/Q4 because of logistics issues they’ll do one.
Nah we should get one this month
If you want to buff Elites let them all preform the guard action on open maps.
Nah that'd be too good, especially with ignore obscuring
Farstalkerkindband needs changes.
Pathfinders need reasons to pick the bad drones.
Kroot doing okay atm but would like pistolier buffs
I would like the bad drones buffed along with the nerfs
I think Farstalker Kinband is fine. One of my buddies just won a golden ticket with them a few weeks ago.
Imperial Navi Breachers need a serious buff
Nah they're good, most of their players went to Inq
give void dancers fly back please thank you
if GW did nuke KT for 3rd edition and dumb it down a lot I'd let John make us custom balance patches 😂
The salt would be too much 🥹
I feel like the amount of nerfs imposed onto the Fellgors is getting ridiculous at this point. The team is already difficult to play on a casual level, if only 1% of the playerbase can use them correctly while pulling out some weird and obscure competitive tricks, what's the point ?
GW shouldn't have made Frenzy so busted. They're still currently basically the best kill team
@@CanYouRollaCrit Unless they play Beta-Decima against a shooting team, or againt a horde team on an open board.
what about blades of Khaine?
Doing too well in general
@@CanYouRollaCrit for real ? i thought they needed help
No buffs for Exaction Squad 😢😢😢
Nope, they've been doing well and winning events
Exaction Squad need buff badly.
From tournament data, not necessarly
Blades of Khaine for sure need a buff, no AP weapons only one blast and no good Inv save compared to mandrakes and harlequins is baffling, you have to your best and kill on your activation or die on the opponent one.
Also exaction squad needs a buff, a police shouldn't be hitting on melee less than a veteran XE
I would like them to be buffed but they have been doing fine as per the stats somehow
You're right about the hiding, it's been insane since we could do it with the mining laser.
The balance dataslate change for Wyrmblade shouldn't have been cumbersome and so on, it should have been a third cult agent. Let us take a Sanctus, Locus, and Kelermorph. The agents are the fun part of the team!
I'd be happy with either haha but deffo Hiding needs a restriction in some way
It won't happen but I want full scale changes to kasrkin ploys they just aren't fun
Kasrkin needs a rewrite
Corsairs player here. I want the stupid bird to suck less!
Bird good thooo
Nerf Yaelindra, Buff the rest of Hand of the Archon KT.
HotA perfectly balanced tho 🥲
@@CanYouRollaCrit 🥲Guess I'll play mandrakes
The ONLY criticism I have is you said “we all thought Kasrkin was great” but we did not all think that sir. Jesh and I took a bold stance on them being dog water. Other than one specific guy also in purple doing well with them no one else has really found success.
Ah fair, yeah they've been so trash haha
@@CanYouRollaCrit let’s hope GW is heavy handed with the buffs since they won’t touch the newest teams, hope they listen to you (again)
We'll see, I'm kinda terrified of what they'd do to Kasrkin 😅
@@CanYouRollaCrit 20 elite points per turn and no limit on how many dice you can effect
what i would add to a Legionaries killteam, is that the annointed should be able to do mission actions and pick up actions just for +1APL (2 APL averagely) so that he cant be locked up in a room id ITD, as other deamons and "stupid" operatives in the game operate the similar. and it would be nice also to let him chose when during his activation he wants to turn into a deamon
I think that would break the anointed. Opening doors would be fine but that operative is already crazy strong
@@CanYouRollaCrit i agree, at least let him somehow open doors :)
Just nerf pathfinders and i'll be happy.
-1 Pathfinder every 3 months 🧐
Make rail rifles heavy
What about Farstalker Kinband?
Been doing well from the stats