I used to have wire like that in my house which was built in 1937.Tried to replace switches and outlets. The wire would just break off. Ended up tearing out all the walls and plaster and redid the entire house, wire, plumbing. Everything. Found some cool things carved in the bricks too
Planning to redo the rooms in my house, starting with the master. It was rewired in the 60s or so it appears, it's got rubber coated solid core wiring. The wires are still in good shape, may rewire it with each room.
Bought a house recently, lots of sketchy electrical work. Everything I did is safe and proper. For years they used space heaters in every room, every room had one outlet that was cooked, along with circa 2004 romex in the basement that was held up with bent nails. 😶 It didn't scare me, I got the place for cheap, did research on what is proper, and made things good again. Point is, look things over very well, spend time researching things and don't buy anything that scares you. And now I'm on to the plumbing, another mess, but taking my time and not stressing over it. ✌️ Remember - if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!
normally the ground should be combined with the neutral wire otherwise you would have an isolated circuit and the gfci wouldn´t trip at an earth fault since the circuit would be isolated from the ground so the ground is combined with the neutral and as soon as the power take any other route than back through the outlet it trips
Definitely NOT installed by a real sparky. If it was, they would have HAD to replace that old, crappy wire. They also never got an inspection or pulled a permit for the new panel!
@@brandonneider8023Exactly! It's a roughly $2500 job to just replace\upgrade the panel\service. It's more like $10k+ to rewire the entire system\house replacing all wiring, switches, plugs & fixtures, not including all the repairs to walls & ceilings that need to be ripped out to find wires afterwards. Most people don't want to deal with the latter for obvious reasons. 👍🏻👌🏻🛠️🔧🔩⚡🔌🔋🤔😎 ✊🏻🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲✊🏻
@@brandonneider8023 Especially if the wires were in decent shape when that panel was installed. The US has been using the same electrical panels for about 40 years now
US is still plenty full of 1890’s-1940’s old houses where the “buses”, “nubs” and clothes insulated wires just can’t support modern refrigerators, HVAC systems and hot tubs.
The house I grew up in had a fuse panel, and about 80% of the wiring was two-conductor post-and-wrap (the black wire we see in this fix) with the other 20% being slightly more modern Romex with fake grounding. For bonus points, the kitchen wiring was grounded to the cold water pipe that fed the upstairs bathroom.
The house I live in has a fuse panel from late 1890s early 1900s works great. I pop them things like once twice a month the whole house runs on only 4 fuses.
@@redneck740consumers are functioning and the fuses are not blown does not mean that the system is working correctly. this means that the fuse rating is too high, but you have good wire connection, and the cable cross-section is most likely also overestimated, which is typical for really old houses in which they could afford electricity Быть добру!
@@HandsomeOrHandy Did you notice your gfci was marked 15a while the breaker was marked 20. That's how fires start and you still have an outlet with "a little bit of an issue"
@@andrewdrake8672that's allowed. Many GFCIs are rated for 20a protection but only 15a faceplate. My main issue with this is the lack of a ground connection. There shouldn't be a ground plug without a ground connection.
@@nathanielhill8156 you are correct about the gfi being rated for 20a. but wrong about the grounded receptacle part as long as the receptacle is a gfi and is marked no equipment ground it is to code. the gfi will still trip even without a ground connected. also when replacing with a new device it needs to be AFCI protected. so in this case a dual function would be the best way.
@@I_TheLandlord The paper is generally waxed or oiled to for waterproofing and additional insulation, But it only has about a 20 year shelf like before it's supposed to be reapplied. Some systems on navy ships are still running the old school canvas wiring, it works well enough when maintained.
I am glad that we have higher standards in the UK than the USA and that enforcement of the IET regulations is strict ( Code USA). That entire installation would have been condemned in the UK.
Those aren't higher standards. That is more government interference. In the U.S. if you can afford it, you can rewire your old house if you like to whatever standards you wish. If you can't afford to though, thank God the government doesn't condemn your house....On a side note, I saw how the UK just put someone in prison for comments he made on the Internet. It sounds like paradise.
@@glumberty1 That doesn't really help when your neighbour's house fire burns your house down too, of if you are renting a house and the landlord is cheap. Minimum standards for everybody. That's saying installations based on old standards and still in good condition are condemned. I've never seen any US Electrician using insulation resistance / RCD (GFCI) ramp test equipment which is basic circuit integrity testing in the UK.
@@glumberty1 Nothing to do with the government in the UK. The electrician would condemn it because the paperwork would have to be completed for the professional registration body that can do random checks. The other issue is related to liability insurance not being covered and furthermore the homeowner would have issues with their insurance when the paperwork is pulled if there is a fire. Government has nothing to do with it. There might be a criminal court case if someone died in the fire but that would be manslaughter and decided by a jury not the government. If you do the electrics yourself (DIY) you can do whatever you like - when you come to sell your house you will have issues and need an electrician to sign off on the safety though otherwise nobody will buy it. As for the comments on the internet. Incitement to violence is illegal in the Murica too. Standards are higher here and in Europe generally - Some countries in Europe have even stricter requirements - we have higher voltage so they have to be. You wouldn't be allowed a circuit like this in any Euro country or the UK purely because there is no ground. The GFCI is good but it can fail.
@@glumberty1 > _In the U.S. if you can afford it, you can rewire your old house if you like to whatever standards you wish._ Does that mean there'd be absolutely *no* problem with me buying a property in the US and re-wiring it throughout with EU standard cabling and BS-1362 outlets? 😇 I mean; A BS-1362 outlet connected across both „hots“ through a dual-pole isolator is going to be a *massive* timesaver when it comes to the kettle... ⚡🫖😉
Super. This Sparky approves. I have purchased only about 10 two prong receptacles in 40 years, fixing what was there, or even updating. (There is also a T rated 20 amp. version of a two prong outlet.) I put grounds in most places that I rewired, or GFCIs, but a two prong outlet is just fine for a lamp and clock in grandma's bedroom. I have even worked on Knob and Tube wiring that had three way switches AND a ground wire, and I put it back in service because it was so well done. I also take the extra "no equipment ground" stickers, and put one over each ground prong hole, just in case. It is rare that I can't provide a ground, but I understand an easy and inexpensive fix. 💙 T.E.N. Edit: I read the comments, and YES, it is legal to put 15 ampere rated outlets on a 20 ampere circuit, as long as it is not a dedicated single receptacle 20 ampere outlet circuit, and it is wired with #12 or larger wire. P.S. Didn't notice the wire, my phone is small, but #14 on a 20 ampere breaker is a no-no, and a 15 ampere breaker should have been installed. ALSO, GFCI outlets don't require a ground to protect you from a fault or be legal, and most people just use a 3-to-2 prong adaptor plug anyway, so if you have the cash, pop a GFCI in for extra safety. 🙂
My phone is small, I didn't see that it was 14 gauge, it looked like 12 gauge wire to me. Only teflon or silicone insulated #14 wire can be pushed past 15 amperes, and nobody uses that kind of wire in houses. I have stopped using 14/2g, 14/3g, and 14/4g Romex on anything but dedicated light circuits and the fire alarms, and now use #12 or larger for all receptacles. 💙 T.E.N.
@@charlesstratford1612Sparky said a 15 Amp outlet (receptacle) can be used on a 20 Amp breaker as long it is not a dedicated (individual branch circuit) he also stated that using a #14 AWG is a no no on a circuit with 20 Amp over current protection, both correct. However, since that wire is so old there's a very good chance that the conductor is actually #14. I would have changed the breaker to 15 Amp despite the possibility of nuance tripping, better safe than sorry. But... current NEC's require two 20 Amp small appliance branch circuits on the kitchen counter but since the wiring is existing the two 20 Amp rule would not apply cause at the time of the orginal installation the NEC at that time may have allowed a 15 Amp small appliance branch circuit.
FYI, the test button actually tests the GFCI. The hot and neutral are shorted together with a resistor, and the circuitry is bypassed on the neutral side, causing the GFCI to trip. It is the safest way to test one of these without fancy equipment.
no, earth and live have a resistor, putting one across live and neutral would just burn it, cuz it would act like a normal load. When you push current through earth tho, that's when it trips as it thinks you're touching live and standing on ground.
@@_-noxxon-_ Incorrect. It’s across hot and neutral, and acts exactly the same as hot to ground. They’re literally bonded in the panel. It trips because, as I’ve said, THE CIRCUITRY IS BYPASSED ON THE NEUTRAL SIDE. And burn it? It’s a RESISTOR! It can’t draw enough current to do that! But considering you’re using the terms “earth” and “live,” you obviously haven’t been this close to one of our GFCI receptacles, let alone seen inside one.
@@_-noxxon-_ Incorrect; it has a resistor, preventing hot and neutral from pulling enough current to start a fire. It’s the same as bridging hot and ground together with the resistor, EXCEPT THIS WAY, THE TEST BUTTON WORKS WITH NO GROUND!!
You say gfci because of the sink, but when replacing a 2 wire outlet you are always required to put in a gfci outlet unless you use a 2 prong outlet. Also all kitchen appliance circuits should be gfci protected regardless of distance to the sink.
What he did was dangerous and against electrical code... He put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp plug could start melting long before the 20 amp breaker trips... His fire hazard video should be removed....
Huge problem! Given the age of the wiring and the appearance of the outlet you removed and installed, it is likely #14 wire rated for a 15 amp breaker. I would like to point out that you turned off (and on) a 20amp breaker on a #14 wire which is a fire hazard (worse that the wire is old) but at least you installed GFCI but there are serious issues with your post
@@imelatedrn Okay so you can decline the work, while somebody else is willing to do this without giving the guy a $30,000 rewire price. Some people cannot afford to renovate their entire house.
Same! My house was built in 1940. Bought it in 2021 and during the inspection found out half the house had knob and tube and had to have it replaced in order to get it insured before closing.
Very common to this day in older housing stock to have active Knob and Tube. It will likely be another 50 years or more before it is all gone. I am surprised though that a house constructed in 1956 actually had K&T rather than a first generation, cloth covered, NM cable without integral ground. K&T wiring was rapidly giving way to newer wiring methods at the dawn of the 1950's.
Does installing a gfci without a ground even function like it should still and open the circuit ? I had this come up recently as well with someone’s house and I was under the impression that they don’t even function properly without a ground wire ?
yes, gfci works by measuring that the current in through live is the same as the current out through neutral no ground wire means it won't trip just by shorting to the appliance's case, but it'll still trip if you touch it.
GFCI detects faults TO ground, as in a leak. It does not detect a fault IN the ground, which is an emergency drain. GFCI shuts the circuit off if it detects a leak. It doesn’t need a drain to work.
GFCI detects a difference between hot and neutral. Any "leak", either to ground or another leg will trip it. Doesn't need a ground connection to operate properly. However, if the hot leg shorts to something metal but doesn't complete a circuit, the metal would be energized and the GFCI would not notice it.
Old school here. That’s BX fed you can tap screw a ground pigtail to get a grounded receptacle as long as all your cables are still clamped in and tight. I’ve fixed hundreds of cloth wire outlets over the years.
He did a dangerous job... He put a 15 amp GFCI on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp GFCI could start melting before the 20 amp breaker trips. Fire hazard for sure....
Your breaker is oversized for the receptacle rating. that means you can plug in a power bar with multiple appliances that total up to 20 Amps and let iut run all day long and that breaker won't trip...but the contacts in the receptacle arent rated for 20 amps, they are rated for 15 amps. hence why the original receptacle was melted and wouldn't hold the prongs anymore. now you've replaced it with an other 15 amp receptacle, and you will be back in 6 months with the same issue. i get that you wanted to fix the fact that its near the sink and should definitely be a GFCI, but it should have been a 20A GFCI. (assuming the wire is 12 Gauge and not 14, in which case the breaker should also be reduced to 15A)
This is normal and up to code, the outlet is rated for 15 amps plug in and 20 pass through. Someone using a power strip like that is the problem, not the outlet. Where you are likely right is that the wire does not look to be 12 gauge since in wasn’t common in that era. Leaving a much worse hazard. Since the wire can overheat and fail.
(with proper ppe) You can stick a knife in the outlet and the heat will melt the solder together to fix the conductivity. Once the spark finishes you can bend the other one in place, all without having to disconnect the power
you're not changing to GFCI outlet just due to less than 6 feet from sink....the whole house needs to be changed to GFCI due to 2 wire system and code requires all of the outlets fed without ground to be replaced by GFCI outlets.
What are your thoughts on the old cloth Romex? I've been told the only way to protect from the brittle insulation in the walls causing trouble, is replace the breakers powering any cloth Romex with a AFCI breakers. Sounds a lot easier and cheaper than replacing most the wire in my house for sure.
new codes require afci/gfci all over the place.....so changing the panel is one part but if you can replace that wiring....replace it. If you can't replace it, then making sure the breakers are in good working order is the first step.
Yep first outlet of every circuit cheapest way to do it. I do it for realtors and there inspectors all the time they don’t want you to ground and and sure don’t want the breakers tripping so they want these in all the rooms and every circuit. It satisfies them and what they say is required with no ground as long as I put that sticker on so I’m fine and then only put it on other 3 prong outlets not the ones we leave
I’m pretty sure if you have no equipment ground on a circuit, you need to put a GFCI no matter the location if you want the ground pin. That’s what I’ve heard at least. It’s much safer than those 3 pin adaptors they used to sell. And the no equipment ground sticker is important as well.
You would be BLOWN away by the way my apartment building was "upgraded" by an "electrician". I was the only unit that still had knob and tube wiring. When the electrician came and "updated" my panel and did some tweaking. I now have to 0pug my refrigerator is plugged in my room and I can't run toaster 9ven and microwave at the same time.
This guy did something really dangerous... He put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp breaker... The 15 amp plug could start melting before the 20 amp breaker trips.. Against Code Rules. Fire hazard!
reminds me of the time we had a real estate agent check out the house before we bought it apparently the previous home owners cut the wires to the ceiling fan to the dining room and left them exposed thank god the real estate agent was also a expert electrician so he fixed the wires so no issues would occur
I grew up in an old farmhouse, the wiring insulation looked like rough black tar with possibly some sort of fibre in it. My Grandpa remembers when he was a kid the day it was all installed! All the folks left and he flipped the lightswitch in his room for the first time, and it didn't work. Lmao!
Screw the unions. They were formed to protect workers from the evils of big, bloated, crooked management bureaucracies. Now the unions ARE the big, bloated, crooked bureaucracies.
Most people don’t realize that electricians leave the screw perfectly vertical. This is how they can tell if a shadetree type messed with it. Go look at all of your outlets and light switches in your house
Stupid question but gonna ask it anyway. With the wires if you know the breaker it goes to can you take the outlet off, tape new wire (hot, negative, ground) to the old wire then go to the breaker and just keep pulling the wire till the new wire comes and connect that to the breaker then go back up and cut the wire to the proper length and now you have a grounded outlet without having to rip up walls?
That SHOULD be done.. especially because in the old days the holes were drilled pretty wide… and they didn’t use staples nor too many fire blocks. I’ve done that a million times and YOU sir are right in questioning that!
That's not a dumb question. If the wire is in conduit, you can do that with ease. Also, you don't need to run a ground wire because the conduit acts as a ground as long as it's continuous to the breaker panel and you bond everything to it.
My house electrical is about 40 years old and it was built a lot better than what i see today, they used 14 gauge wire on every outlet and 10 gauge for big appliances like in kitchen or electric water heater, these days code in my area requires minimum 16 gauge for normal sockets since it's cheaper.
Grab a level next time when your putting the outlet back in. Looks alot better. Also if your gonna put your screws vertical, make sure they're actually vertical!
Interesting to see one of the newer style 2 prong outlets especially melted like that. Wonder if it's lesser quality than the old style 2 prong outlets. Even though technically it should be the same quality as a normal three prong minus the ground. and since it's a 2 wire only I would be concerned that the hot and neutral might've been switched which won't necessarily show correct on a plug-in tester without the ground. It's one of those false positives that those testers can give. Shouldn't be that bad of an issue with a GFCI in there now but it's not that complicated to test. all you need is a extension cord to a known good outlet with good ground and then a voltmeter to test between the extension cord ground and what should be the hot. If you get voltage good if you don't you check the neutral which should be 0-low with respect to ground unless it's reversed. Which most likely it will be as it's very hard to tell which ones which and some people back then didn't care. Alternatively a noncontact voltage tester in most cases can tell you which side is hot and which site is not.
@@GGS3270, it could be the old 2 conductor BX that was used. I believe that you can carry a ground using the armor cladding. With the proper connectors at both ends of the run that is.
@@shaggytallboy4982 that “2 wire” RX has a ground wire wrapped around the connector. Look close. Bonding the outlet to the back of the metal box THAT HAS the rounding wire attacked to the metal box couldn’t hurt !
It definitely is a metal box 100%, the ground shield would not qualify as a sufficient ground even if it existed, and gfci do not need a ground to be up to code.
This is terrible information... He is doing something that is against electrical code.. He's creating a fire hazard. He put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp plug could melt and start a fire well before the 20 amp breaker trips... Higher a professional this man is giving firehauser device... I know cause Im a Certified Electrician.
If you use electrical metallic tubing between your panel and receptacle boxes,you don't need ground wire as the emt pipe acts as ground since the breaker panel is already grounded.
Illegal Install in Canada, 20A breaker on a 15A receptacle is a no-no (with some specific exceptions, but being a counter receptacle it doesn't fall into them)
In the USA you can install a 15 amp receptacle on 20 amp wiring, because you are going to pull less power, not more power by downgrading the outlet. You can not do the reverse though and put a 20amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.
unless it's a dedicated appliance circuit, and since it's in the kitchen it should be 20a and it's required to be afci protected when replacing the outlet per NEC code.
Huge fire hazard! The house I lived in as a kid had cloth covered wires and one of our walls literally caught on fire because the wires got too hot inside the wall and started the fire. We were lucky it didn't burn down the whole house! Keep in mind, many old homes that have cloth covered wiring don't have any conduit to protect those wires either.
I have an outlet in my kitchen that is literally right next to the sink, it's not grounded and I assume that's because that type of outlet didn't exist 280 years ago when the building was constructed. (You have some very interesting content, I'm going to keep watching)
Personally, I don't think a sticker quite cuts it. If the outlet isn't grounded, then the ground holes on the outlet should be blocked off (Or - If such thing ever exists - A two-pin GFCI employed) to visually indicate lack of grounding and to avoid grounded appliances being plugged in. Mind you; Coming from a British PoV I can't accept that a grounding bond wasn't installed as a routine part of the job. I don't know if the back-boxes are grounded (Ours are) but even if it wasn't, you just need an earth wire to the nearest suitable grounding circuit that extends from the main panel. And no; A bag of soil with the „Earth“ symbol on it doesn't quite cut the mustard... ;-)
When my ex and bought our house in 96, the house was wired with four fuses and knob and tube wire.... replaced with a new panel and rewired 80% of it before moving in. The remaining 20% was completed within the following year.
No it's not. But if you're not accustomed to seeing it in the field, I imagine it is unsettling. It's not entirely cloth btw - the cloth is the outer covering, the inside is rubber covered.
I used to have wire like that in my house which was built in 1937.Tried to replace switches and outlets. The wire would just break off. Ended up tearing out all the walls and plaster and redid the entire house, wire, plumbing. Everything. Found some cool things carved in the bricks too
Must’ve cost an arm and a leg
I did the same! Old wires get brittle.
Planning to redo the rooms in my house, starting with the master. It was rewired in the 60s or so it appears, it's got rubber coated solid core wiring. The wires are still in good shape, may rewire it with each room.
@@JustPlainRex possibly knob and pill or however it was spelt
Plus plaster and lath. All those nails and disposal cost
I’m calling bs here.
What were the carvings
Great video, no BS no long winded explanation and Easy to follow. 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
Bought a house recently, lots of sketchy electrical work. Everything I did is safe and proper. For years they used space heaters in every room, every room had one outlet that was cooked, along with circa 2004 romex in the basement that was held up with bent nails. 😶 It didn't scare me, I got the place for cheap, did research on what is proper, and made things good again. Point is, look things over very well, spend time researching things and don't buy anything that scares you. And now I'm on to the plumbing, another mess, but taking my time and not stressing over it. ✌️ Remember - if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!
Romex is still the same
Plumbing is awesome!
Dude just use press fittings or you could the sb way
PEX is very good if you want to do water lines and it is very easy to work with
@@Apothicca39 no press fitting all the way
And u forgot to say, ONTO the next project, good work
This wire has to be changed if it is this old (it looks like cloth isolation). But wait some years and you can change the whole house....
It's called knob and tube
@@jatpack3 It's called a fire hazard.
@@eric98292 quick n easy insurance claim
@@jatpack3that’s not knob and tube 😂
@@M511Tactical That shit looks like it's AL too! CANNOT be used with a standard fixture! This fuck is a hack!
Loved the jumbo plate upgrade!
I was not going to give a like until you installed the jumbo face plate. It shows you care.
I appreciate you leaving things looking nicer than when you came, most don't care or leave it messy. ✌
Didn’t know they had GFCI outlets without ground!
If there is no ground due to old wiring, they are preferred over standard outlets.
@@zb7858 my home was like that
@@zb7858
I didn't know that. Thanks.
@@zb7858 and if I recall the code I worked under it was supposed to be grounded to SOMETHING if not the panel.
normally the ground should be combined with the neutral wire otherwise you would have an isolated circuit and the gfci wouldn´t trip at an earth fault since the circuit would be isolated from the ground so the ground is combined with the neutral and as soon as the power take any other route than back through the outlet it trips
I love seeing new electrical panels and old wires for the plugs & switch. 🤣
Definitely NOT installed by a real sparky. If it was, they would have HAD to replace that old, crappy wire. They also never got an inspection or pulled a permit for the new panel!
@@randyvalgardson774 What? You can upgrade/replace panels without replacing wires. Big difference in job costs.
@@brandonneider8023Exactly! It's a roughly $2500 job to just replace\upgrade the panel\service. It's more like $10k+ to rewire the entire system\house replacing all wiring, switches, plugs & fixtures, not including all the repairs to walls & ceilings that need to be ripped out to find wires afterwards. Most people don't want to deal with the latter for obvious reasons. 👍🏻👌🏻🛠️🔧🔩⚡🔌🔋🤔😎
✊🏻🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲✊🏻
@@brandonneider8023 Especially if the wires were in decent shape when that panel was installed. The US has been using the same electrical panels for about 40 years now
US is still plenty full of 1890’s-1940’s old houses where the “buses”, “nubs” and clothes insulated wires just can’t support modern refrigerators, HVAC systems and hot tubs.
The house I grew up in had a fuse panel, and about 80% of the wiring was two-conductor post-and-wrap (the black wire we see in this fix) with the other 20% being slightly more modern Romex with fake grounding.
For bonus points, the kitchen wiring was grounded to the cold water pipe that fed the upstairs bathroom.
The house I live in has a fuse panel from late 1890s early 1900s works great. I pop them things like once twice a month the whole house runs on only 4 fuses.
@@redneck740consumers are functioning and the fuses are not blown does not mean that the system is working correctly. this means that the fuse rating is too high, but you have good wire connection, and the cable cross-section is most likely also overestimated, which is typical for really old houses in which they could afford electricity
Быть добру!
seen houses that were upgraded to a 100 amp service but still utilized alot of the old knob and tube .. some got rather warm but they passed it.. ugh
Literally just a bought a house in April. Everything was knob and tube with a few outlets hot wired to fool inspectors
Nice work as always!!! Especially the test at end and installed proper cover plate and also the NO EQUIPMENT GROUND
Thanks
@@HandsomeOrHandy Did you notice your gfci was marked 15a while the breaker was marked 20. That's how fires start and you still have an outlet with "a little bit of an issue"
@@andrewdrake8672that's allowed. Many GFCIs are rated for 20a protection but only 15a faceplate. My main issue with this is the lack of a ground connection. There shouldn't be a ground plug without a ground connection.
@@nathanielhill8156 you are correct about the gfi being rated for 20a. but wrong about the grounded receptacle part as long as the receptacle is a gfi and is marked no equipment ground it is to code. the gfi will still trip even without a ground connected. also when replacing with a new device it needs to be AFCI protected. so in this case a dual function would be the best way.
i might be ignorant but what is meaning behind no equipment ground? Can you not plug in a microwave or something
Dude that outlet already had a blow out 💀💀 it's clearly seen some spicy moments
Gotta love the genius back in the day who thought cloth was a good insulation for wiring lol
Back before we had all of the polymers from dinosaur squeezings
Cloth works well, until it gets damaged.
If you didn’t know, old underground telecom cables were insulated with paper. Needless to say any moisture exposure and they’re screwed.
@@I_TheLandlord The paper is generally waxed or oiled to for waterproofing and additional insulation, But it only has about a 20 year shelf like before it's supposed to be reapplied. Some systems on navy ships are still running the old school canvas wiring, it works well enough when maintained.
They used what they had available at the time, really old wire is paper insulated...
I am glad that we have higher standards in the UK than the USA and that enforcement of the IET regulations is strict ( Code USA). That entire installation would have been condemned in the UK.
Those aren't higher standards. That is more government interference. In the U.S. if you can afford it, you can rewire your old house if you like to whatever standards you wish. If you can't afford to though, thank God the government doesn't condemn your house....On a side note, I saw how the UK just put someone in prison for comments he made on the Internet. It sounds like paradise.
@@glumberty1 That doesn't really help when your neighbour's house fire burns your house down too, of if you are renting a house and the landlord is cheap.
Minimum standards for everybody. That's saying installations based on old standards and still in good condition are condemned.
I've never seen any US Electrician using insulation resistance / RCD (GFCI) ramp test equipment which is basic circuit integrity testing in the UK.
@@glumberty1 Nothing to do with the government in the UK. The electrician would condemn it because the paperwork would have to be completed for the professional registration body that can do random checks.
The other issue is related to liability insurance not being covered and furthermore the homeowner would have issues with their insurance when the paperwork is pulled if there is a fire.
Government has nothing to do with it. There might be a criminal court case if someone died in the fire but that would be manslaughter and decided by a jury not the government.
If you do the electrics yourself (DIY) you can do whatever you like - when you come to sell your house you will have issues and need an electrician to sign off on the safety though otherwise nobody will buy it.
As for the comments on the internet. Incitement to violence is illegal in the Murica too.
Standards are higher here and in Europe generally - Some countries in Europe have even stricter requirements - we have higher voltage so they have to be.
You wouldn't be allowed a circuit like this in any Euro country or the UK purely because there is no ground. The GFCI is good but it can fail.
The people of the UK are not free.
@@glumberty1 > _In the U.S. if you can afford it, you can rewire your old house if you like to whatever standards you wish._
Does that mean there'd be absolutely *no* problem with me buying a property in the US and re-wiring it throughout with EU standard cabling and BS-1362 outlets? 😇
I mean; A BS-1362 outlet connected across both „hots“ through a dual-pole isolator is going to be a *massive* timesaver when it comes to the kettle... ⚡🫖😉
Super. This Sparky approves. I have purchased only about 10 two prong receptacles in 40 years, fixing what was there, or even updating. (There is also a T rated 20 amp. version of a two prong outlet.) I put grounds in most places that I rewired, or GFCIs, but a two prong outlet is just fine for a lamp and clock in grandma's bedroom. I have even worked on Knob and Tube wiring that had three way switches AND a ground wire, and I put it back in service because it was so well done. I also take the extra "no equipment ground" stickers, and put one over each ground prong hole, just in case. It is rare that I can't provide a ground, but I understand an easy and inexpensive fix. 💙 T.E.N. Edit: I read the comments, and YES, it is legal to put 15 ampere rated outlets on a 20 ampere circuit, as long as it is not a dedicated single receptacle 20 ampere outlet circuit, and it is wired with #12 or larger wire. P.S. Didn't notice the wire, my phone is small, but #14 on a 20 ampere breaker is a no-no, and a 15 ampere breaker should have been installed. ALSO, GFCI outlets don't require a ground to protect you from a fault or be legal, and most people just use a 3-to-2 prong adaptor plug anyway, so if you have the cash, pop a GFCI in for extra safety. 🙂
You approve that? Keine Aderendhülsen auf der Litze? mate you're A MUPPET
Okay without using the gfci benefit, explain how a 20amp breaker on a #14 wire and 15a rated plug is safe or to code?
My phone is small, I didn't see that it was 14 gauge, it looked like 12 gauge wire to me. Only teflon or silicone insulated #14 wire can be pushed past 15 amperes, and nobody uses that kind of wire in houses. I have stopped using 14/2g, 14/3g, and 14/4g Romex on anything but dedicated light circuits and the fire alarms, and now use #12 or larger for all receptacles. 💙 T.E.N.
@@charlesstratford1612Sparky said a 15 Amp outlet (receptacle) can be used on a 20 Amp breaker as long it is not a dedicated (individual branch circuit) he also stated that using a #14 AWG is a no no on a circuit with 20 Amp over current protection, both correct. However, since that wire is so old there's a very good chance that the conductor is actually #14. I would have changed the breaker to 15 Amp despite the possibility of nuance tripping, better safe than sorry. But... current NEC's require two 20 Amp small appliance branch circuits on the kitchen counter but since the wiring is existing the two 20 Amp rule would not apply cause at the time of the orginal installation the NEC at that time may have allowed a 15 Amp small appliance branch circuit.
Obviously a rental unit.
Props on getting the trim screw heads vertical 🙌
FYI, the test button actually tests the GFCI. The hot and neutral are shorted together with a resistor, and the circuitry is bypassed on the neutral side, causing the GFCI to trip. It is the safest way to test one of these without fancy equipment.
no, earth and live have a resistor, putting one across live and neutral would just burn it, cuz it would act like a normal load.
When you push current through earth tho, that's when it trips as it thinks you're touching live and standing on ground.
@@_-noxxon-_ Incorrect. It’s across hot and neutral, and acts exactly the same as hot to ground. They’re literally bonded in the panel. It trips because, as I’ve said, THE CIRCUITRY IS BYPASSED ON THE NEUTRAL SIDE. And burn it? It’s a RESISTOR! It can’t draw enough current to do that! But considering you’re using the terms “earth” and “live,” you obviously haven’t been this close to one of our GFCI receptacles, let alone seen inside one.
@@_-noxxon-_ Incorrect; it has a resistor, preventing hot and neutral from pulling enough current to start a fire. It’s the same as bridging hot and ground together with the resistor, EXCEPT THIS WAY, THE TEST BUTTON WORKS WITH NO GROUND!!
LOL... the test button will not work without a ground. The test button works by providing a path to ground besides the neutral wire.
@@JorgTheElder It, in fact, will, as, once again, it is connected to *neutral.* Neutral, not ground!
I appreciate the jump plate. That’s integrity.
What good is this without a GROUND ! This is also on a 20amp breaker in the panel.
Noticed he didn't use the ouet tester after replacing.
Code allows GFCI without ground in situations like this, but you must include a "No Equipment Ground" sticker like he did.
@@danwoodson2384yes still not grounded but safer with GFI but yes, must be labeled, so far you are first to say that it must say ungrounded
You say gfci because of the sink, but when replacing a 2 wire outlet you are always required to put in a gfci outlet unless you use a 2 prong outlet. Also all kitchen appliance circuits should be gfci protected regardless of distance to the sink.
The fact it doesn’t have a ground should also be a reason to install a gfci
I'm glad he didn't forget to turn off the breaker panel. That's electricity ⚡️ 101.
That place needs more than an outlet.
Wow, I am having this exact issue. Thanks!
One plate on each side of sink.
What he did was dangerous and against electrical code... He put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp plug could start melting long before the 20 amp breaker trips... His fire hazard video should be removed....
Huge problem! Given the age of the wiring and the appearance of the outlet you removed and installed, it is likely #14 wire rated for a 15 amp breaker. I would like to point out that you turned off (and on) a 20amp breaker on a #14 wire which is a fire hazard (worse that the wire is old) but at least you installed GFCI but there are serious issues with your post
Any person that knows how to work safely with electricity is a GEM DOUBLE BLESSING!🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
I prefer those with the little green light
NO! You change the old wire. That wire had cloth insulation. That is an electrical fire happening within 10 years.
Not every client can afford a whole home rewire. I'm sure the risks were explained
@@Weatherman4Eva nononono, a hazard like that is non negotiable for replacement
@@imelatedrn Okay so you can decline the work, while somebody else is willing to do this without giving the guy a $30,000 rewire price. Some people cannot afford to renovate their entire house.
@@Weatherman4Eva for real I had my house done complete rewire to remove all knob and tube $5,000
@@Weatherman4Eva Have relatives who lost their home because of this kind of shitty wiring. It's not OK to ignore the risk.
My house is over 100 years old…I have cloth wrap wires too! Changed all of my receptacles just like that!
I swear you sound like Robert Downey Junior😂
YES!!! Jarvis went and got the jumbo faceplate for him
Thank you for adding the jumbo plate
When my dad moved to his current house in 1956 when he was 9 years old there was still Nob and Tube wiring in some rooms of the house.
Thas crazy and awesome. I've never seen something that old school. It's cool how we come so far in technology and safety.
There's plenty still around, believe me. Nothing wrong with it, although insurance companies may not insure it, it doesn't have a grounding wire
Same! My house was built in 1940. Bought it in 2021 and during the inspection found out half the house had knob and tube and had to have it replaced in order to get it insured before closing.
Very common to this day in older housing stock to have active Knob and Tube. It will likely be another 50 years or more before it is all gone. I am surprised though that a house constructed in 1956 actually had K&T rather than a first generation, cloth covered, NM cable without integral ground. K&T wiring was rapidly giving way to newer wiring methods at the dawn of the 1950's.
It's nice owning a house built in 2006. I have hard wired internet in every room and I don't have any such issues like this 😊
Does installing a gfci without a ground even function like it should still and open the circuit ? I had this come up recently as well with someone’s house and I was under the impression that they don’t even function properly without a ground wire ?
That's what I said... Lol
yes, gfci works by measuring that the current in through live is the same as the current out through neutral
no ground wire means it won't trip just by shorting to the appliance's case, but it'll still trip if you touch it.
GFCI detects faults TO ground, as in a leak. It does not detect a fault IN the ground, which is an emergency drain. GFCI shuts the circuit off if it detects a leak. It doesn’t need a drain to work.
GFCI detects a difference between hot and neutral. Any "leak", either to ground or another leg will trip it. Doesn't need a ground connection to operate properly. However, if the hot leg shorts to something metal but doesn't complete a circuit, the metal would be energized and the GFCI would not notice it.
Old school here. That’s BX fed you can tap screw a ground pigtail to get a grounded receptacle as long as all your cables are still clamped in and tight. I’ve fixed hundreds of cloth wire outlets over the years.
The wire looks like Thomas Edison installed it
lol... wow ladies and gentlemen this is a genius.
So glad of the UK's lovely 240v and socket/plug system
This is the first time I've ever seen an installed outlet without a ground connection! :O
Absolutely beautiful job!
He did a dangerous job... He put a 15 amp GFCI on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp GFCI could start melting before the 20 amp breaker trips. Fire hazard for sure....
You forgot to lock the fuse. Always remember to have two safety guards😊
Your breaker is oversized for the receptacle rating. that means you can plug in a power bar with multiple appliances that total up to 20 Amps and let iut run all day long and that breaker won't trip...but the contacts in the receptacle arent rated for 20 amps, they are rated for 15 amps. hence why the original receptacle was melted and wouldn't hold the prongs anymore. now you've replaced it with an other 15 amp receptacle, and you will be back in 6 months with the same issue. i get that you wanted to fix the fact that its near the sink and should definitely be a GFCI, but it should have been a 20A GFCI. (assuming the wire is 12 Gauge and not 14, in which case the breaker should also be reduced to 15A)
This is normal and up to code, the outlet is rated for 15 amps plug in and 20 pass through. Someone using a power strip like that is the problem, not the outlet.
Where you are likely right is that the wire does not look to be 12 gauge since in wasn’t common in that era. Leaving a much worse hazard. Since the wire can overheat and fail.
Code allows a 20 amp breaker with 15 amp outlets. But there must be more than one outlet. A typical duplex outlet counts as more than one.
Nice work and great video!
Did anybody else notice there's no ground?
Nice red green reference and thanks for putting the oversized plate on.
Great job!
I was wondering for the longest time if a GFCI outlet works without a ground wired into it. This video randomly solved that. 😅 so thanks
Here is a tip. Start getting a switch on the outlet. It’s a really good idea and makes it just a little bit safer.
Kinda surprised the breaker actually turned it off, to be honest.
@@DeliveryMcGeewhat do you mean the breaker? The GFCI outlet popped first w/o popping the panel box breaker
I’m starting my apprenticeship at JATC this Friday so I’m thank you for this video it’s definitely gonna help me start my career 👍
(with proper ppe) You can stick a knife in the outlet and the heat will melt the solder together to fix the conductivity. Once the spark finishes you can bend the other one in place, all without having to disconnect the power
you're not changing to GFCI outlet just due to less than 6 feet from sink....the whole house needs to be changed to GFCI due to 2 wire system and code requires all of the outlets fed without ground to be replaced by GFCI outlets.
What are your thoughts on the old cloth Romex? I've been told the only way to protect from the brittle insulation in the walls causing trouble, is replace the breakers powering any cloth Romex with a AFCI breakers. Sounds a lot easier and cheaper than replacing most the wire in my house for sure.
new codes require afci/gfci all over the place.....so changing the panel is one part but if you can replace that wiring....replace it. If you can't replace it, then making sure the breakers are in good working order is the first step.
Not required. You can also replace them with the same 2 wire receptacle. NEC 406.4(D)(2)(a)
Yep first outlet of every circuit cheapest way to do it. I do it for realtors and there inspectors all the time they don’t want you to ground and and sure don’t want the breakers tripping so they want these in all the rooms and every circuit. It satisfies them and what they say is required with no ground as long as I put that sticker on so I’m fine and then only put it on other 3 prong outlets not the ones we leave
@@erincook6007Good to have GFCI though, especially with no ground!
I’m pretty sure if you have no equipment ground on a circuit, you need to put a GFCI no matter the location if you want the ground pin. That’s what I’ve heard at least. It’s much safer than those 3 pin adaptors they used to sell. And the no equipment ground sticker is important as well.
Was going to comment about using a jumbo faceplate, but you beat me to it. Absolute professional.
Thanks
No, he doesn't know the difference between a receptacle and plug.
@@skinlab4239lol, he didn’t ground that metal box either. True professional
You would be BLOWN away by the way my apartment building was "upgraded" by an "electrician". I was the only unit that still had knob and tube wiring. When the electrician came and "updated" my panel and did some tweaking. I now have to 0pug my refrigerator is plugged in my room and I can't run toaster 9ven and microwave at the same time.
That'll be 13 thousands dollars mam 😂
Very nice of you to get a larger face plate. I was thinking you needed one.
God I love seeing a professional job and a man proud of his work.
This guy did something really dangerous... He put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp breaker... The 15 amp plug could start melting before the 20 amp breaker trips.. Against Code Rules. Fire hazard!
reminds me of the time we had a real estate agent check out the house before we bought it apparently the previous home owners cut the wires to the ceiling fan to the dining room and left them exposed thank god the real estate agent was also a expert electrician so he fixed the wires so no issues would occur
Xl plate was the chefs kiss 🍻
I have had so many problems with those larger face plates
I grew up in an old farmhouse, the wiring insulation looked like rough black tar with possibly some sort of fibre in it.
My Grandpa remembers when he was a kid the day it was all installed! All the folks left and he flipped the lightswitch in his room for the first time, and it didn't work. Lmao!
How cute, teaching the public in defiance of the unions!
Screw the unions. They were formed to protect workers from the evils of big, bloated, crooked management bureaucracies. Now the unions ARE the big, bloated, crooked bureaucracies.
Great job on the oversized plate
Most people don’t realize that electricians leave the screw perfectly vertical. This is how they can tell if a shadetree type messed with it. Go look at all of your outlets and light switches in your house
They do it for looks, and crack a lot of faceplates trying to get that extra 1/2 turn.
Mine are all vertical, but I did it cuz it makes sense! LOL
@@richardcurtis8026 you probably put the power mirror selector switch back in the middle (neutral) after adjusting either side
"Now which switch on the breaker panel do I turn off". Lol
It won't hold a receptical? It IS the reptical....
Receptacle babe
just wanted to acknowledge the beautiful irony of this comment, good on you for not deleting
putting in a grounded outlet without ground wire is extremely dangerous imho. Here in europe that would not be allowed.
Stupid question but gonna ask it anyway. With the wires if you know the breaker it goes to can you take the outlet off, tape new wire (hot, negative, ground) to the old wire then go to the breaker and just keep pulling the wire till the new wire comes and connect that to the breaker then go back up and cut the wire to the proper length and now you have a grounded outlet without having to rip up walls?
The wires are usuailly attached to the inside of the walls with staples or other things.
That SHOULD be done.. especially because in the old days the holes were drilled pretty wide… and they didn’t use staples nor too many fire blocks. I’ve done that a million times and YOU sir are right in questioning that!
That's not a dumb question. If the wire is in conduit, you can do that with ease. Also, you don't need to run a ground wire because the conduit acts as a ground as long as it's continuous to the breaker panel and you bond everything to it.
On a grounded type outlet you must always use GFCI no matter where on a two wire system.
Very Nice
Notice
This Gentleman
Clocked His Plate Screws
That Means
The Slot of
The Screws are At
12:00 🕛 O’Clock
Good Work
My house electrical is about 40 years old and it was built a lot better than what i see today, they used 14 gauge wire on every outlet and 10 gauge for big appliances like in kitchen or electric water heater, these days code in my area requires minimum 16 gauge for normal sockets since it's cheaper.
Grab a level next time when your putting the outlet back in. Looks alot better. Also if your gonna put your screws vertical, make sure they're actually vertical!
Interesting to see one of the newer style 2 prong outlets especially melted like that. Wonder if it's lesser quality than the old style 2 prong outlets. Even though technically it should be the same quality as a normal three prong minus the ground.
and since it's a 2 wire only I would be concerned that the hot and neutral might've been switched which won't necessarily show correct on a plug-in tester without the ground. It's one of those false positives that those testers can give. Shouldn't be that bad of an issue with a GFCI in there now but it's not that complicated to test. all you need is a extension cord to a known good outlet with good ground and then a voltmeter to test between the extension cord ground and what should be the hot. If you get voltage good if you don't you check the neutral which should be 0-low with respect to ground unless it's reversed. Which most likely it will be as it's very hard to tell which ones which and some people back then didn't care.
Alternatively a noncontact voltage tester in most cases can tell you which side is hot and which site is not.
The metal box may have a ground source. You could have wired the ground screw to the box if it did. Should have checked that.
This type of wiring 100% doesn’t have it.
And no to code
@@GGS3270, it could be the old 2 conductor BX that was used. I believe that you can carry a ground using the armor cladding. With the proper connectors at both ends of the run that is.
Even if there is some connection to the ground it necessarily is not enough for equipment grounding. Therefore a GFCI is essential.
Lol cloth isolation. Nostalgia hits hard.
If Electroboom made serious videos
The little "wiggler" tool
It’s a metal box-pigtail to the back of the box and onto the ground screw of the GFI….
That's old 2 wire Romex with no ground wire. The pigtail would do absolutely nothing. That's why the outlet he replaced only had 2 prongs
@@shaggytallboy4982 that “2 wire” RX has a ground wire wrapped around the connector. Look close. Bonding the outlet to the back of the metal box THAT HAS the rounding wire attacked to the metal box couldn’t hurt !
Does not look to be a metal box.
@@xHadesStamps Nor does there look to be the bonding shield around the old nmc.
It's just old 14-2 w/o ground.
It definitely is a metal box 100%, the ground shield would not qualify as a sufficient ground even if it existed, and gfci do not need a ground to be up to code.
THANKS for THIS info…!! ‼️‼️👍🏻
This is terrible information... He is doing something that is against electrical code.. He's creating a fire hazard. He put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp breaker. The 15 amp plug could melt and start a fire well before the 20 amp breaker trips... Higher a professional this man is giving firehauser device... I know cause Im a Certified Electrician.
The local crack house needed some repairs
From time to time older properties need repairs
You shouldn't judge people dave
@@trev119 even Mother Teresa ended up being a terrible person.
If you use electrical metallic tubing between your panel and receptacle boxes,you don't need ground wire as the emt pipe acts as ground since the breaker panel is already grounded.
This man isn’t an electrician clearly.
Elaborate.
Just because you can install an electrical outlet doesn't mean you are an electrician. Anybody can do that. @@R_802
"That'll be $287, ma'am"
Illegal Install in Canada,
20A breaker on a 15A receptacle is a no-no (with some specific exceptions, but being a counter receptacle it doesn't fall into them)
In the USA you can install a 15 amp receptacle on 20 amp wiring, because you are going to pull less power, not more power by downgrading the outlet. You can not do the reverse though and put a 20amp receptacle on a 15 amp circuit.
unless it's a dedicated appliance circuit, and since it's in the kitchen it should be 20a and it's required to be afci protected when replacing the outlet per NEC code.
Canada isn’t a real place so this comment is invalid
Huge fire hazard! The house I lived in as a kid had cloth covered wires and one of our walls literally caught on fire because the wires got too hot inside the wall and started the fire. We were lucky it didn't burn down the whole house! Keep in mind, many old homes that have cloth covered wiring don't have any conduit to protect those wires either.
Nice job!
Those leads looked like they been sparkin alot lmao
They're just old. They used to be wrapped in fabric.
I have to do this at my job . Thanks for the extra info
do people still use these antiquated power outlets?
They’re all throughout my house. It’s not ideal but it works for the time being
Thank you for your knowledge
If the box was grounded, couldn't you attach a ground wire (preferably green insulation) to the box and receptacle/outlet?
Yes
Because the box is not grounded
@@Heyimhere732the way you answered that makes you seem moronic
if you ever see a 2 wire outlet assume nothing in the house is grounded my brother
@@Heyimhere732 your response makes you look moronic
I have an outlet in my kitchen that is literally right next to the sink, it's not grounded and I assume that's because that type of outlet didn't exist 280 years ago when the building was constructed.
(You have some very interesting content, I'm going to keep watching)
Glad to have you around. I would recommend any outlet within 6 feet of a sink be protected by a GFCI outlet or breaker.
@@HandsomeOrHandyor on the countertop At all
Fuckin pro over here making everyone’s day a better one
Personally, I don't think a sticker quite cuts it. If the outlet isn't grounded, then the ground holes on the outlet should be blocked off (Or - If such thing ever exists - A two-pin GFCI employed) to visually indicate lack of grounding and to avoid grounded appliances being plugged in.
Mind you; Coming from a British PoV I can't accept that a grounding bond wasn't installed as a routine part of the job. I don't know if the back-boxes are grounded (Ours are) but even if it wasn't, you just need an earth wire to the nearest suitable grounding circuit that extends from the main panel.
And no; A bag of soil with the „Earth“ symbol on it doesn't quite cut the mustard... ;-)
Looks like old Knob&tube work or BX !!
That tilted outlet would have driven me crazy every time I looked at it.
I HATE, HATE, HATE, this old wire with insulation that is being held on with pure luck.
I have nightmares of wiring of old houses.
Have rather replaced everything, but unfortunately, that was not an option
When my ex and bought our house in 96, the house was wired with four fuses and knob and tube wire.... replaced with a new panel and rewired 80% of it before moving in. The remaining 20% was completed within the following year.
I would of highly recommended changing the cloth wire it is an extreme fire hazard.
No it's not. But if you're not accustomed to seeing it in the field, I imagine it is unsettling. It's not entirely cloth btw - the cloth is the outer covering, the inside is rubber covered.
@@steveloux4709 you must not of seen fires caused by cloth wiring. 😬
Add some heat shrink tubing around that old wire to help with insullation.....
Not wrong, but probably more effort than needed. Scotch 3M 33+ and 3M 35 White vinyl tape works great. to keep the cloth intact.