Where all the remakes of the venerable Honda Trail 90 get wrong is there's no secondary trail reduction gear, a 4x4 you can change at the trailhead to allows it to crawl up really steep and difficult trails with the engine in the thick of it's torque/rpm curve. I owned a 1971 CT-90 that the PO had converted to a Powroll 125 cc stroker/bore and big valves, and hotter street cam, which almost made the trail gearing superfluous. Still, it wasn't punchy enough to not occasionally need the lowest gears. what I see with these latest Honda Trail clones and Honda's newest Trail bikes is that their engines are detuned Pitbike engines that aren't making much more than the original 90 cc engines 7 h.p. Is CST's latest bike a long stroke engine, because that's where you need to start?
You're RIGHT. But the reality is that less than 5% of buyers ever take their "trail" bikes offroad - so the dual range transmission is cut to keep the cost down. (The minority that want more trail performance have to change the gearing.)
I hate to admit it, but as long as the Chinese keep cranking out bikes for a reliable, realistically priced bike without all the gouging and BS, I’m not having another Japanese bike - at least a new one…Wanted to get back into a little 250 dual sport for commuting and to take on the hitch camping when we go and the prices on the Japanese bikes were just ridiculous now for a little 250. I wound up going with a kpx250 from Lifan and I’m absolutely loving it. A cheap bike you actually don’t mind using and repairing if needed rather than feeling like you’ve wrecked a Mercedes on the trail…
I own a Honda Trail 125 and love it. This CSC Wolf is a nice looking bike, and the low price and plethora of options a make this bike VERY intriguing. Good options are hard to come by for the Honda. The frame reminds me more of a Honda Cross Cub 110, especially where the front handlebars connect to the frame. I'm gonna wait for some real-world reviews when the bike ships in the fall. Chinese manufacturing is slowly gaining ground, and someday soon it will catch up with Japan, or at least Taiwan. Reliability is important, as I'm on the East Coast, and will be left to my own devices for general maintenance. Parts cost and availability is also an issue.
On the big island of Hawaii, where we live. the dealer is about 85 miles away. Actually seeing and buying a new Honda trail 125 is a about like winning the lottery. I bet I would actually be able to order a CSC when they become available. My first MC was a used Honda Trail 90. I was ten. Mine had the dual range trans, which was genjus. The older ones had a kind of quick change sprocket setup. The trail sprocket fit over the street sprocket and bolted in place. The bike came with a short piece if drive chain, for use when the trail sprocket was in use. Even that was a well thought out arrangement.
Nothing and noone will ever catch up with a skilled labor of made in Japan. If you do think that besides being stupid you're ignorant and arrogant about the nation of Japan and if you learn about Japan you will realize how wrong you are
Looks like a great li'll bike! I wonder whether a fully enclosed (minimal maintenance for sprockets & chain) chain-guard will be available for this bike?
@@thegreatoutthere I bought a very knackered 2012 Yamaha AG200 (farm bike) this past weekend but one of it's best qualities is how silent it sounds when wheeling it around, which I reckon is due to its fully enclosed chain-guard. It has a removable plastic grommet for checking the chain tension and perhaps allowing for the application of aerosol chain lube? These Yamahas have simple cam-type adjusters on either side of the rear wheel which really simplifies adjusting its chain tension.
IMPORTANT NEWS UPDATE: The introduction of the CSC Wolf has been DELAYED indefinitely! th-cam.com/video/E76LJGtHSyA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9Z3UdJ8-5y3NHmtJ Please go to GreatrOutThere.online for updates, links, and complete details.
This was only the initial ride. Skip ahead to the more complete Ride Report at www.greatoutthere.online/post/offroad-ride-report-csc-wolf-125. (More mielage wil be added soon!) Then see the full specs at cscmotorcycles.com/wolf-125/
As opposed to the made in China and Taiwan Honda/Yamaha/KTM/BMW/Harley motors, microchips, wiring harnesses, etc? Without your Chinese computer and phone you would be forced to submt your uninformed comment via US Mail!
I remember saying that about Japanese goods not so long ago. Chinese copy bikes are great.. just replace the parts you break with genuine honda parts. Also, tighten up all the bolts the children laborers missed.
@@thegreatoutthere Hell why don't we just send all our money to the ccp because we already buy so much crap from them. Heck why don't we just raise the white flag right now. And your calling somebody uninformed smh. We're selling ourselves down the river and you sound all for it.
What are the TWO accessories that you consider INDISPENSIBLE for the type of riding that you do? The CSC Wolf 125 has MANY available accessories that can be installed during the pre-delivery process at CSC. For offroad riding, I NEED the wider and more aggressive Shinko knobby tires. Second, I would choose the accessory engine guard and skid plate. What about you?
Someday these manufacturers will get it right. Undersquare, really wide jumps between the gears with 1st being close to a granny/creeper, and 4th (or 5th..) being an overdrive. These gear-sets already exist, the sellers need to have their subcontractors/suppliers do the work.
The nice thing about the Wolf is that given the cost of one, it's a bike I wouldn't be afraid to really beat the hell out of on an adventure ride. Plus at $2,000, if you have to replace it in 10 years, you're still money ahead of the Trail 125 when you pony up another $2,000 for a new one. Man, those things look fun.
i like the color and look....This bike looks better than Honda....i like miilitary colors in that kind of bikes....not only camouflage but also millitary single color options must be available like FDE, and OD Green....i like the accecoaries too...
If they offered the dual range transmission they would eat Honda's lunch. It's a trail bike, that old hi/low trans made a ton of difference when on the trails. If it were a two stroke it wouldn't be needed. I think Honda and now CSC have made a mistake.
Sadly, the CSC Wolf 125 is delayed indefinitely. BUT - if you are looking for the BEST BUY in a commuter cycle - consider the ELECTRIC Monterey! Styled after the iconic Super Cub, it will take you across town SILENTLY. NEVER buy gas or oil! Full review at www.greatoutthere.online/post/csc-monterey-electric-scooter PS - NOW on sale for less than HALF the price of the Honda CT125 or Super Cub!!!
No you can NOT afford one...as the Wolf is not available in the US for a while. Besides, just as with the Honda CT 125, if and/or when these are available for sale in the US, most of the people that buy one will start bitching about how low powered and slow they are and want to get rid of the one they bought. And why in God's name would you start putting fuel/oil additives into a brand new engine??? I'd be willing to bet that would void any warranty if something bad were to happen with the engine...If you can even get warranty on those. Then try to get it after it gets fixed...
As far as I'm concerned, if the bike was built in 2024, ..then no matter anyone says,...it's a 2024 !! It's like being born in the year 2000 but pretending you weren't born until 2001. I've lived all over the world and America is the only place I've ever seen do this.
I love how everyone says that the bike has no clutch. Push the shift lever all the way down and you will engaged the clutch. The shift lever and clutch are combined. Edit: I finally watched the video how the Honda clutch really works. As a kid I always thought there was some sort of either cable or rod pushing the clutch as you shift gears. The clutch in the Honda is a combination of both centrifugal and plates. Their is no connection of the shifter. I'm wrong.
The clutch is centrifugal. It has nothing to do with the foot shift lever position. What I'm really saying is,I love how people ho have zero idea what they're talking about seem to always be the resident "subject expert"😅
Correct! It is a "semi-automatic" transmission. The gears do not engage until you release the lever. Likewise, you can "feather" the clutch by holding the lever half-way down, that is, before it clicks into the next gear.
@@bruceclark5627 Incorrect. There is nothing "centrifigal" about the semi-automatic clutch. These motorcycles have distinct gears, and the rider must shift between gears. The only difference is that you control the shift 100% with the foot lever, and without the need for a hand clutch lever. On the other hand, scooters have centrifigal "clutches" - which is really no clutch at all.
@thegreatoutthere scooters use a cvt transmission. The cub motor and its clones use a centrifugal clutch that is engaged at a specific rpm point. The transmission has individual gears. 32 years of experience here. Go back to your GY6 videos.
@@bruceclark5627 Have you ever rode a ct90? I as a kid I used to push the shifter down to Coast. Has nothing to do with the RPM of the motor. I got my ct90 54 years ago. I was 10. Before that I had a Honda mini trail when I was about 6. They also had the clutch can the shifter combined. You can do power wheelies with the mini trail by just holding down the shifter and in revving the engine up. Then shift completely. It was like dumping the clutch on a regular motorcycle.
The motorcycle wasn't visible in the entire video, presumably it had been camouflaged! Perhaps use a non-camouflaged bike next time so that it will actually be visible in the video...
Like the CT125, the weight limit isn't defined by the manufacturer. There are simply too many variables - road/trail condition, elevation, etc. Like the CT125 (and C125 Super Cub, Grom, and Monkey). Per Honda: "Your actual mileage will vary depending on how you ride, how you maintain your vehicle, weather, road conditions, tire pressure, installation of accessories, cargo, rider and passenger weight, and other factors."
@@masonryjoe actually a motorcycle is considered a vehicle with 2 or 3 wheels with an engine 150 cc or greater, a motor-driven cycle is 149 cc or less, and a scooter is an automatic transmission vehicle with less than 4 bhp. so by the law it is defined as a motor-driven cycle.
Zonsen builds many times more of these small motors than Honda! Most are sold into 3rd world countries where they are expected to run with little or no maintenance. As opposed to "toys" in the U.S., these small motorcycles and scooters are often the ONLY form of transportation for the family or business!
@@LazyLarryinFlorida I repaired it. I'll put it another way: I'd prefer a fun Italian roadster over a Japanese minivan. They both have their place, but if it's discretionary spending, I want fun.
@@thegreatoutthere Most of the smaller cc bikes used in 3rd world countries is the smaller cc vertical designed engines not the horizontal designed engines like used on the trail, Dax and Monkey bikes and Chinese clones of those bikes. As a previous owner of a new Dax Chinese clone anyone thinking they are getting even close to Honda quality or durability with these much cheaper clones is fooling themselves. Not saying the clones are not usable but they are not a Honda by a long shot. The weakness on the clones is not really so much the engine but the metal quality and quality of the finish which really starts to rust easily. Also many of the fasteners on the clones are of very cheap quality made out of super soft breakable low quality metals. But then with the clone you are not spending the dollars for Honda quality. Once Honda starts importing the Dax to the USA the Trail 125 will be easy to procure and the Dax will be the new kid short in supply. I really like the Trail but like all of the Honda mini"s they are overpriced for what you are getting, The Trail also is missing out by not offering a model that has the 5sp manual transmission like available on the Grom and Monkey. These bikes from Honda should be no more than about $3295 msrp and that is still a lot more (not quite double) than they sell for new overseas in a lot of countries. At the current prices these should have a 175cc engine (which I think would be the sweet spot) and be capable of running and maintaining 65mph on the streets in stock form. The torque from a 175cc engine would also be welcome to the power for off road use as well.
Where all the remakes of the venerable Honda Trail 90 get wrong is there's no secondary trail reduction gear, a 4x4 you can change at the trailhead to allows it to crawl up really steep and difficult trails with the engine in the thick of it's torque/rpm curve.
I owned a 1971 CT-90 that the PO had converted to a Powroll 125 cc stroker/bore and big valves, and hotter street cam, which almost made the trail gearing superfluous. Still, it wasn't punchy enough to not occasionally need the lowest gears. what I see with these latest Honda Trail clones and Honda's newest Trail bikes is that their engines are detuned Pitbike engines that aren't making much more than the original 90 cc engines 7 h.p. Is CST's latest bike a long stroke engine, because that's where you need to start?
You're RIGHT. But the reality is that less than 5% of buyers ever take their "trail" bikes offroad - so the dual range transmission is cut to keep the cost down. (The minority that want more trail performance have to change the gearing.)
I hate to admit it, but as long as the Chinese keep cranking out bikes for a reliable, realistically priced bike without all the gouging and BS, I’m not having another Japanese bike - at least a new one…Wanted to get back into a little 250 dual sport for commuting and to take on the hitch camping when we go and the prices on the Japanese bikes were just ridiculous now for a little 250. I wound up going with a kpx250 from Lifan and I’m absolutely loving it. A cheap bike you actually don’t mind using and repairing if needed rather than feeling like you’ve wrecked a Mercedes on the trail…
I own a Honda Trail 125 and love it. This CSC Wolf is a nice looking bike, and the low price and plethora of options a make this bike VERY intriguing. Good options are hard to come by for the Honda. The frame reminds me more of a Honda Cross Cub 110, especially where the front handlebars connect to the frame. I'm gonna wait for some real-world reviews when the bike ships in the fall. Chinese manufacturing is slowly gaining ground, and someday soon it will catch up with Japan, or at least Taiwan. Reliability is important, as I'm on the East Coast, and will be left to my own devices for general maintenance. Parts cost and availability is also an issue.
On the big island of Hawaii, where we live. the dealer is about 85 miles away. Actually seeing and buying a new Honda trail 125 is a about like winning the lottery. I bet I would actually be able to order a CSC when they become available. My first MC was a used Honda Trail 90. I was ten. Mine had the dual range trans, which was genjus. The older ones had a kind of quick change sprocket setup. The trail sprocket fit over the street sprocket and bolted in place. The bike came with a short piece if drive chain, for use when the trail sprocket was in use. Even that was a well thought out arrangement.
Nothing and noone will ever catch up with a skilled labor of made in Japan.
If you do think that besides being stupid you're ignorant and arrogant about the nation of Japan and if you learn about Japan you will realize how wrong you are
Does this bike have the high and low features of the old Honda 90? How heavy is it? I saw your ACU sleeve are you a vet?
No dual range - sorry.
What was that flapping sound while trail riding? Wolf looks great. Thank you.
Could have been the rear rack - it was loose on the first day until I found the bolt hidden under the rear top box.
@@thegreatoutthere Thank you.
Looks like a great li'll bike! I wonder whether a fully enclosed (minimal maintenance for sprockets & chain) chain-guard will be available for this bike?
Maybe. But all chains require maintenance and the enclosed chain is a pain to adjust and lube.
@@thegreatoutthere I bought a very knackered 2012 Yamaha AG200 (farm bike) this past weekend but one of it's best qualities is how silent it sounds when wheeling it around, which I reckon is due to its fully enclosed chain-guard. It has a removable plastic grommet for checking the chain tension and perhaps allowing for the application of aerosol chain lube? These Yamahas have simple cam-type adjusters on either side of the rear wheel which really simplifies adjusting its chain tension.
IMPORTANT NEWS UPDATE: The introduction of the CSC Wolf has been DELAYED indefinitely! th-cam.com/video/E76LJGtHSyA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9Z3UdJ8-5y3NHmtJ Please go to GreatrOutThere.online for updates, links, and complete details.
so you mention nothing about top speed, shock travel, instrument panel, prices...like what did I just look at?
This was only the initial ride. Skip ahead to the more complete Ride Report at www.greatoutthere.online/post/offroad-ride-report-csc-wolf-125. (More mielage wil be added soon!) Then see the full specs at cscmotorcycles.com/wolf-125/
Looks like a Lyfan ADV125 but camo, I prefer my RV125 2024 tho.
Where is the air intake
Up under the rear rack - high and dry!
Oh no the TC 90?
Honda trail at home:
Please LIKE and Subscribe for MORE content. See also RideMiniMotos.com for all the fun for those who know - LESS is
MORE!
Chinese, so thats a hard pass.
As opposed to the made in China and Taiwan Honda/Yamaha/KTM/BMW/Harley motors, microchips, wiring harnesses, etc? Without your Chinese computer and phone you would be forced to submt your uninformed comment via US Mail!
I remember saying that about Japanese goods not so long ago. Chinese copy bikes are great.. just replace the parts you break with genuine honda parts. Also, tighten up all the bolts the children laborers missed.
@@thegreatoutthere Hell why don't we just send all our money to the ccp because we already buy so much crap from them. Heck why don't we just raise the white flag right now. And your calling somebody uninformed smh. We're selling ourselves down the river and you sound all for it.
@thegreatoutthere Right? 😆 🤣 😂
@thegreatoutthere I see my comment has been removed, what a 😺
What are the TWO accessories that you consider INDISPENSIBLE for the type of riding that you do? The CSC Wolf 125 has MANY available accessories that can be installed during the pre-delivery process at CSC. For offroad riding, I NEED the wider and more aggressive Shinko knobby tires. Second, I would choose the accessory engine guard and skid plate. What about you?
Someday these manufacturers will get it right. Undersquare, really wide jumps between the gears with 1st being close to a granny/creeper, and 4th (or 5th..) being an overdrive. These gear-sets already exist, the sellers need to have their subcontractors/suppliers do the work.
Thanks for sharing your real-world experience with this CSC Wolf trail motorcycle.
I think it makes an excellent competitor to the Honda Trail.
The nice thing about the Wolf is that given the cost of one, it's a bike I wouldn't be afraid to really beat the hell out of on an adventure ride. Plus at $2,000, if you have to replace it in 10 years, you're still money ahead of the Trail 125 when you pony up another $2,000 for a new one. Man, those things look fun.
i like the color and look....This bike looks better than Honda....i like miilitary colors in that kind of bikes....not only camouflage but also millitary single color options must be available like FDE, and OD Green....i like the accecoaries too...
YES - OD green and/or khaki would be cool!
CSC just announced that "Sarge Green" will be one of the 2025 colors!!!
I have read the price should be about $1995 plus fees. It does not have the dual range transmission , like my first motorcycle did.
No dual range. Honda hasn't offered this for over 20 years because 99% of riders never go off road.
If they offered the dual range transmission they would eat Honda's lunch. It's a trail bike, that old hi/low trans made a ton of difference when on the trails. If it were a two stroke it wouldn't be needed. I think Honda and now CSC have made a mistake.
Sadly, the CSC Wolf 125 is delayed indefinitely. BUT - if you are looking for the BEST BUY in a commuter cycle - consider the ELECTRIC Monterey! Styled after the iconic Super Cub, it will take you across town SILENTLY. NEVER buy gas or oil! Full review at www.greatoutthere.online/post/csc-monterey-electric-scooter PS - NOW on sale for less than HALF the price of the Honda CT125 or Super Cub!!!
If you liked this intro then you will REALLY like the actual ride reports! Check this out: th-cam.com/video/rMbXUhdR4_8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0vu78gRQyWa1DLz4
so will it be more available than the new Honda ct125 and what is the projected pricing?
Prices start at only $1,995.00 Go to cscmotorcycles.com/wolf-125/
That thing is incredible! I hope to see a long term review in the future!
Here is the second article in the CSC WOlf 125 series: www.greatoutthere.online/post/first-ride-report-2025-csc-motorcycles-wolf-125-part-two
@@thegreatoutthere Thank you!
I have one for my girlfriend and it could use a upgraded shocks front and rear. She only weighs 120 and remember it’s only 9 HP
It's easy to add spacers to the front suspension. The rear shocks would require new, aftermarket versions.
No you can NOT afford one...as the Wolf is not available in the US for a while. Besides, just as with the Honda CT 125, if and/or when these are available for sale in the US, most of the people that buy one will start bitching about how low powered and slow they are and want to get rid of the one they bought. And why in God's name would you start putting fuel/oil additives into a brand new engine??? I'd be willing to bet that would void any warranty if something bad were to happen with the engine...If you can even get warranty on those. Then try to get it after it gets fixed...
See the related article: www.greatoutthere.online/post/csc-wolf-125-manufacturing-date-delayed
As far as I'm concerned, if the bike was built in 2024, ..then no matter anyone says,...it's a 2024 !!
It's like being born in the year 2000 but pretending you weren't born until 2001.
I've lived all over the world and America is the only place I've ever seen do this.
Well, it's reality. NEW 2025 Toyotas, Fords, etc. have been shipping since June!
i own a trail 125, this sounds like a scam, bro.
Sorry that you aren't able to understand...
Podria comprar dos unidades en florida?
ABSOLUTELY! Shipping to your address is only $425.00 - with delivery November 2024.
I love how everyone says that the bike has no clutch. Push the shift lever all the way down and you will engaged the clutch. The shift lever and clutch are combined.
Edit:
I finally watched the video how the Honda clutch really works. As a kid I always thought there was some sort of either cable or rod pushing the clutch as you shift gears. The clutch in the Honda is a combination of both centrifugal and plates. Their is no connection of the shifter. I'm wrong.
The clutch is centrifugal. It has nothing to do with the foot shift lever position. What I'm really saying is,I love how people ho have zero idea what they're talking about seem to always be the resident "subject expert"😅
Correct! It is a "semi-automatic" transmission. The gears do not engage until you release the lever. Likewise, you can "feather" the clutch by holding the lever half-way down, that is, before it clicks into the next gear.
@@bruceclark5627 Incorrect. There is nothing "centrifigal" about the semi-automatic clutch. These motorcycles have distinct gears, and the rider must shift between gears. The only difference is that you control the shift 100% with the foot lever, and without the need for a hand clutch lever.
On the other hand, scooters have centrifigal "clutches" - which is really no clutch at all.
@thegreatoutthere scooters use a cvt transmission. The cub motor and its clones use a centrifugal clutch that is engaged at a specific rpm point. The transmission has individual gears. 32 years of experience here. Go back to your GY6 videos.
@@bruceclark5627 Have you ever rode a ct90? I as a kid I used to push the shifter down to Coast. Has nothing to do with the RPM of the motor. I got my ct90 54 years ago. I was 10. Before that I had a Honda mini trail when I was about 6. They also had the clutch can the shifter combined. You can do power wheelies with the mini trail by just holding down the shifter and in revving the engine up. Then shift completely. It was like dumping the clutch on a regular motorcycle.
The motorcycle wasn't visible in the entire video, presumably it had been camouflaged!
Perhaps use a non-camouflaged bike next time so that it will actually be visible in the video...
Yamaha have a version of the trail cub that is only in Asia at the moment.... Yamaha PG1 , price of 60,000 bahts in Thailand
How were you able to get one ?
This was the model used of r EPA testing. Approved models will be available late Fall 2024 as 2025 models.
I doubt that thing have 1/4 lifespan compare to the japanese. 1/4 the price is justified. Not to mention parts availability.
Unlike your local Honda dealer, CSC actually stocks 100% of the parts! PS. The Honda CT125 isn't "Japanese" but from Thailand/China/Phillipines/etc.
What's the weight limit ?
Like the CT125, the weight limit isn't defined by the manufacturer. There are simply too many variables - road/trail condition, elevation, etc. Like the CT125 (and C125 Super Cub, Grom, and Monkey). Per Honda: "Your actual mileage will vary depending on how you ride, how you maintain your vehicle, weather, road conditions, tire pressure, installation of accessories, cargo, rider and passenger weight, and other factors."
Where in AZ are you?
Check out the two review articles from Prescott and Jerome! GreatOutThere.online
Hate to break it to ya but thats a scooter LOL ! Looks ok , Time will tell if its reliable .
No, scooters have direct CVT drive without a gearbox. The Wolf 125 will require a motorcycle license.
@@thegreatoutthere No, the Honda click 110 cc has the same transmission, very common in Asiaon many of the scooters.
@@masonryjoe actually a motorcycle is considered a vehicle with 2 or 3 wheels with an engine 150 cc or greater, a motor-driven cycle is 149 cc or less, and a scooter is an automatic transmission vehicle with less than 4 bhp. so by the law it is defined as a motor-driven cycle.
Technical an under boned motorcycle like the cub. Brilliant looking bike
Rember fellas it’s not a Honda it’s from china big difference u get out deep in the woods and bike breaks ur screwed
Any bike that breaks deep in the woods and you're screwed 😂
Granted, the Honda may be less likely to break because they're built like an appliance.
Zonsen builds many times more of these small motors than Honda! Most are sold into 3rd world countries where they are expected to run with little or no maintenance. As opposed to "toys" in the U.S., these small motorcycles and scooters are often the ONLY form of transportation for the family or business!
@@freeman48083 what did you do when your washing machine broke down? Appliance?
@@LazyLarryinFlorida I repaired it. I'll put it another way: I'd prefer a fun Italian roadster over a Japanese minivan. They both have their place, but if it's discretionary spending, I want fun.
@@thegreatoutthere Most of the smaller cc bikes used in 3rd world countries is the smaller cc vertical designed engines not the horizontal designed engines like used on the trail, Dax and Monkey bikes and Chinese clones of those bikes.
As a previous owner of a new Dax Chinese clone anyone thinking they are getting even close to Honda quality or durability with these much cheaper clones is fooling themselves.
Not saying the clones are not usable but they are not a Honda by a long shot.
The weakness on the clones is not really so much the engine but the metal quality and quality of the finish which really starts to rust easily.
Also many of the fasteners on the clones are of very cheap quality made out of super soft breakable low quality metals.
But then with the clone you are not spending the dollars for Honda quality.
Once Honda starts importing the Dax to the USA the Trail 125 will be easy to procure and the Dax will be the new kid short in supply.
I really like the Trail but like all of the Honda mini"s they are overpriced for what you are getting,
The Trail also is missing out by not offering a model that has the 5sp manual transmission like available on the Grom and Monkey.
These bikes from Honda should be no more than about $3295 msrp and that is still a lot more (not quite double) than they sell for new overseas in a lot of countries.
At the current prices these should have a 175cc engine (which I think would be the sweet spot) and be capable of running and maintaining 65mph on the streets in stock form.
The torque from a 175cc engine would also be welcome to the power for off road use as well.