Hi everyone. Thanks for watching the show. Some strange creature has been impersonating me in the comments section - please disregard and sorry if it looked weird. The beauty of the internet.
Jeeezuz wept… based on my past interactions with Lock I was expecting him to twist, contort, misrepresent, and attack but he surpassed himself! Lock is a master of all logical fallacies and cognitive dissonance, as well as being woefully ignorant and deluded! Well done Jared and Greg for even sitting there, listening, and trying to partake in a debate with someone who clearly has no intention of listening or changing his mind!
Andrew stating that he is far too busy being popular to read the recent research kind of describes why he appears stuck in a 1990's time capsule. Well done to Greg for sticking with it through the ad hominem's, and to Jared for keeping it together.
Give it a rest. Lehmann comes across as a smug douchebag. I heard plenty of science from Andrew. I'd be trusting him a helluva lot more than some modern graduate from Southern school.
@Tim Trevail um no! What he is saying that he doesn’t always have the time to read every new thing that pops up.. like some he actually puts his way to practice🤷🏻♂️
@@bradleymccoy186 he does practice, yes, but to say you're too busy to keep learning means you're really not that good at life. Hence why he *read* a debate.
@@littlethuggie um ,didn’t you hear him say that he tests himself everyday. To see if he is right or wrong. And he has more understanding how the body moves etc. because he works with those who lifts & he lift as well.
Debate started with attacking the credentials of the opponent. Way to create a respect 🙄. The extent of calm and composure by Greg Lehman is commendable!!
Jared, thank you for hosting this episode. My respect for Greg as a clinician, researcher, educator, and cool dude is even higher after watching this. As for Andrew... well. Less said about that, the better.
@@cjatwnty8301 he absolutely did. He formed almost every basis of his argument on his own anecdotal experiences and the people that he’s worked with. He also compares the questions asked to non-relevant situations and then strawmans them.
Thanks for putting this out there Jared. I’ve no knowledge of this area, and am not familiar with Andrew prior to this. What a masterclass he gives which all students of science can learn from. Although I don’t think it’s the lesson for them that he thinks it is… How not to think 101. Popular module I reckon
Andrew -"he might have science on his side but I have a world record and many other logical fallacies, allow me to go off topic and distract them with bullshit about bike seats"
He's happy to dismiss all studies that disprove his nonsense with ad hominin shite with "the researchers don't lift but here's my anecdote who does lift"
I'm 15 minutes in; Never heard of Andrew Lock before, but he's not doing well. And it seems like he's reading up from a script. And that weird ad hominem early on. What a weird character.
Lock is like a villain out of a childrens comedy. Also after this, we should agree that he deserves no more attention. Lehman on the other hand is an absolute hero. Thanks for enduring! And thanks to Jared for setting it up.
I just think of technique as being task specific and lifting a barbell is a pretty specific lift. In contrast, atlas stone lifters get crazy amounts of flexion/extension through their lifts because they kind of have to, and I would challenge anyone to tell them to keep a neutral spine... th-cam.com/video/UwnkUE6Qg9I/w-d-xo.html The main issue I see with Andrew's argument is that he fails to account for tissue adaptation to load. Like, why is it that with repetitive careful planning and loading you can building hip and knee strength but omg if you flex the spine repetitively it'll ONLY wear down and not adapt.. 🙄
This is brilliantly entertaining! The notion that you can't have a view unless you've completed that activity is so flawed. Hope Andrew doesn't have to treat any dancers any time soon.
Jesus it’s painful to listen to this guy. Thinking he knows more about what Greg has published and researched than the man himself 😂😂😂 (I’m only 5 mins in)
Especially considering Lock competes “bench only”. Also, imagine being so proud of a 200kg “world record” bench as a 140kg lifter who doesn’t need to squat and pull in the same meet, in a federation that openly states that they do not drug test. For reference, Taylor Atwood put up 200kg in the 73kg class (half an Andrew Lock) in a full power meet (squat bench deadlift) in the IPF (with fairly strict drug testing), and only missed it because he jumped the press command.
This whole chat: Greg, let me make balanced, reasonable and evidence based points. Andrew, here's a script with a bunch of biomechanical assumptions and personal digs.
Good lord, when I saw this advertised on Instagram I knew there were gonna be fireworks, and the final product did not disappoint. Andrew really did not come off good in this. Broad sweeping claims without elaboration, anecdotal evidence, strawmen, and cheesy oversimplifications that his poor clients probably eat up without question. Also very convenient how he missed any of O'Sullivans current research due to being the busiest man in the world, but also had time to compile tons of other studies that back his bias, and from the looks of it write a full script for this debate.
He also says O’Sullivans courses are worthless despite having never done them. Then attacks anyone who hasn’t done a McKenzie course and had an opinion on it lol.
Thank you for putting this all together. I was really looking forward to this debate. Andrew did not really answer questions he just either used cheesy sayings or said “it’s fact”. I hope another actual debate can be put together about this topic. Thank you Greg and Jared for keeping it together!
Only just found this podcast, love it, keep up the good work Would love to see Greg come back with a second adult guest, I think it'll be more productive
I've never heard of Lock before (he's was irrelevant before this and even more so after this - if that's a thing, even). He's clearly not all that intelligent (me lift heavy weight ≠ sound clinical knowledge) despite his credentials, is obtusely arrogant and is obviously reading from a script. Greg is well-spoken, actually educated on the topic and the only reason this episode might be worth watching in full - I'm not fully sure. I'm just 20 minutes in and am not sure if I'll be able to manage through to the end.
Just because you can sound smart doesn't mean you are. Lock is well known in aus. I think he also just had to make a more aggressive stance for the point of a debate
@@rhysbertrand8903 Except... he didn't make an aggressive stance as far as I'm concerned. He made a fool of himself. And for whatever it's worth... I did end up watching this whole thing. Lock didn't improve any throughout.
@@rhysbertrand8903 he's well known amongst the BBing and PLing fraternity. Ask 1000 average health care professionals in Australia and you'd be lucky if 3 had heard of him before
I applaud all of these guys for getting together and agreeing to do this. However this is excruciating to watch. Bravo to Greg for not throwing his hands up and quitting in the first 10 Minutes of this thing. Between the script, the personal attacks and the irrelevant opening about performance from Andrew I’m struggling to get through this.
Imagine not being able to just answer a question or talk about a topic that you claim to be one of the best instead you read.... Greg did so well to tolerate Andrew's "debate"
Second year of physio school I thought Locke was super cool. Bit embarrassing in hind sight to think I ever gave the guy credit. Absolutely love how capable of ambivalence Lehman is. Always measured and contextual. The script by Locke shows just how boxed in, uncontextual and rigid he is. All the ad homs he pulls out of those scripts shows just how personal he takes this. Just makes me want to scream: It's not about you mate, it's about real people with real pain and doing the best we can for them.
Yeah, the ignorant will view nuance and ambivalence as ignorance, not realizing that he is in fact caught in the logic of false dichotomies and absolutism. It's a shame that younger physios also look to SquatU as their hero. At least a charlatan like Locke was only a part of your learning process. A lot of physios seem to just stay in that outdated biomedical realm.
TWELVE SECONDS IN - Lock lifts his mug and presents it to the camera momentarily before he raises it to his mouth. The mug says "TOTAL FUCKING LEGEND", and Lock's mug says "total smug tool", which explains his attitude for the rest of the episode.
Got 5 minutes in & wondered who Andrew Lock is and why he goes in so obnoxiously about Lehman's qualifications. His monologue lists all of his accomplishments and denigrates Greg's trampolining & skateboarding. WTF? Having no idea who he is, I googled him. Top hit is his insta, so I had a look & the 2nd post was "opened a can of whoop ass on Greg early today". Is Andrew intimidated by Greg? Certainly seems that way. What an insufferable boor.
In agreement with some of the other posters here. Lock does himself and his views a disservice by attacking Greg for the first 10 minutes of the video. I really wanted to hear a rational discussion of different views similar to Chad and Adam's which was 10/10 content and thought-provoking. This was hard to listen to because every decent point Andrew makes is surrounded by anecdotes or he is not open to discussing the breadth of the literature. His views regularly boil down to "That's a fact" cause one study said so, completely ignoring the uncertainty of all the available research. I'd love you to run through this type of discussion again with a more level-headed modern thinker.
Ooof this is painful. Why no one called Locke out for reading his resume for self high five championship of credibility by association is beyond me. Strategy, talk so long off topic that people can’t remember all the flaws in my position. Then when other person speaks, strawmen them out or context to achieve a false sense of winning the argument. Was it a Political debate or research? How deranged do you have to be to brag about a less than 2x bodyweight bench press. This video provides evidence of pain, as expressed in the faces of Greg and Jared.
On Instagram he was gloating, saying he WON the debate and CONVERTED him to his side.......I seriously don't think he even knew he was debating someone.
Coming in to discredit someone off the bat is not a good look and neither is reading a script just to get your point out. One thing I tell everyone, therapists and patients is that low back pain is a symptom. A symptom of what? Sometimes we may know and others we don't. Treat the patient not the diagnosis
Just looked up Lock’s “world record” bench. 200kg in an obscure, non-drug-tested federation. He did it bench only (so no squat or DL) in the 140kg class. An impressive bench, for sure, but not a “record” I’d hang my hat on, considering the IPF record for the bench is higher than 200kg in every men’s weight class above 66kg. Full power and drug tested, too.
@@austinwilliams3120 yeah man, his “do you even lift bro” attitude is pretty hilarious in light of this. Maybe we should have him chat to Austin and Jordan from Barbell Medicine, both of whom have benched more than Lock’s “record” while weighing
Wow, Andrew Lock comes off so repulsive at the beginning that it's hard to get into the actual debate. It would be great to have Greg on again with a more thoughtful human.
Really thought we'd get farther through the interview before the personal attacks begun Oof this got even worse with time. Andrew seems fundamentally incapable of admitting that the old studies that govern his "principles" are still currently disputed hence why you can't base your entire clinical thought process over it
Wow, this was an epic intellectual battle between two professionals. I'm agnostic on who won the debate but as a lifter I tend to listen more to practitioners who have the education plus are also world-class athletes. Although academic research papers have their place, to me they are inferior to practitioners who also can demonstrate the efficacy of their opinions through feats of physical performance. In the Marine Corps we had a saying that if you are explaining you're losing - specifically by promoting your academic credentials over your accomplishments.
Locke's "don't trust a non-lifter who researches lifting" is such an insanely weird argument. What about biologists who research bird migration, astronomers who research solar systems, and physicists who measure quantum phenomena... are these scientists any less legit because they themselves dont fly, appear in space, or wiggle like strings?
An ad hominem is technically when you conclude your opponent’s wrong because of their poor character etc. Simply insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
He was probably reading off a script he wrote in advance which explains why he sometimes wasn’t answering Greg’s points and instead answering his own questions (guests get the questions in advance).
Totally looks like he went in with an agenda and thinking he was going to wipe the floor with Lehman.He had his script all prepared & was so smugly confident he wasn't able to adapt and actually listen.
I made one comment on Andrew's Insta, asking why he wouldn't talk to someone who disagreed with him, and he blocked me instantly. Bit of a weak move from a strong man 🤷🏻♀️
This is painful to watch. Greg Lehman published at least 5 studies with Dr Stu MgGill and Andrew Lock is arguing semantics that he never studied "under" McGill. And I'm only at 7 minutes in... Let's see what other gems this provides!
@@lanceneuscheler7141 both Greg and him agreed that technique does matter lol especially when understanding torque around the axis of rotation of a joint. Asides from a few outliers, most heavy lifters that are pushing and pulling the heaviest weights all have the same geometry of their stature during the lifts. Greg argues that’s there’s more than technique which fills up the “cup” … but Andrew is arguing that the patients he sees are the ones who injure their bodies after excessive improper lifting and that the problems are solved when coached with a bit of lesson on technique. Don’t know why people are hating on Andrew and even making claims that he’s reading off of a paper. He’s articulated and I guess people don’t like articulated people now adays? How can you even tell he’s reading from a script without any proof anyways. Keep hating ppl.
@@ahLeftside28 "Asides from a few outliers, most heavy lifters that are pushing and pulling the heaviest weights all have the same geometry of their stature during the lifts" - a cursory glance at any world level powerlifting meet will demonstrate how untrue this is. Also, what is "improper lifting"? Can you provide a definition for this?
@@ahLeftside28 Which point is that in response to? Also, I don’t know Greg. I don’t work in the same field as him, or even live on the same continent 😂
Andrew is a bit odd, but does make many great points, as does Greg. We should not like our dislike for his mannerisms cause us to miss some of his more reasonable and valid points.
I don't know how Andrew can even participate, if you point out a contradiction in his work he blocks you. He says don't fear disc bulges. Then he says lift "properly" so you don't herniate a disc..... The disc bulge that didn't need to be feared...
Andrew Lock presented very interesting arguments, but his vulgar attitude was repulsive. Regardless of his reputation and the validity of his arguments, using ad hominems on Jared and Greg was rude and disrespectful. Jared was wise to say that we need to be more open to other people's perspectives and that even if we disagree, we should do so in a respectful manner.
I believe PTs have caused more harm than good by telling clients with LBP to not bend their spines. Its insane. The spine flexes and if you dont use it, you lose it. The big guy is very confrontational, unfortunately. It shows poor tolerance to open mindedness.
Jared, as a moderator, why didn't you clarify that you don't need a thesis that is ULTRA specific to biomechanics in order to get a masters in biomechanics?
Hi everyone. Thanks for watching the show. Some strange creature has been impersonating me in the comments section - please disregard and sorry if it looked weird. The beauty of the internet.
I traipsed through & reported each of them individually, hoping some bot would clean them up
Jeeezuz wept… based on my past interactions with Lock I was expecting him to twist, contort, misrepresent, and attack but he surpassed himself! Lock is a master of all logical fallacies and cognitive dissonance, as well as being woefully ignorant and deluded!
Well done Jared and Greg for even sitting there, listening, and trying to partake in a debate with someone who clearly has no intention of listening or changing his mind!
Okay mr. Meakins, but have YOU studied biomechanics under McGill? huh? HUH? Didnt think so..
@@thesamu100 AHAHHAHAHHH
Did you get a mention at 21.15???
Had to listen a few times
😁
@@richardcouch4786 absolutely, it's pretty blatant
@@richardcouch4786 at 14.00 too... Oooh boy...
Andrew stating that he is far too busy being popular to read the recent research kind of describes why he appears stuck in a 1990's time capsule. Well done to Greg for sticking with it through the ad hominem's, and to Jared for keeping it together.
Give it a rest. Lehmann comes across as a smug douchebag. I heard plenty of science from Andrew. I'd be trusting him a helluva lot more than some modern graduate from Southern school.
@@markf367 because as soon as the debate starts, Lard Ass is reading from a script and attacking people personally lol. He didn't want to be there.
@Tim Trevail um no! What he is saying that he doesn’t always have the time to read every new thing that pops up.. like some he actually puts his way to practice🤷🏻♂️
@@bradleymccoy186 he does practice, yes, but to say you're too busy to keep learning means you're really not that good at life. Hence why he *read* a debate.
@@littlethuggie um ,didn’t you hear him say that he tests himself everyday. To see if he is right or wrong. And he has more understanding how the body moves etc. because he works with those who lifts & he lift as well.
Debate started with attacking the credentials of the opponent. Way to create a respect 🙄. The extent of calm and composure by Greg Lehman is commendable!!
Jared, thank you for hosting this episode. My respect for Greg as a clinician, researcher, educator, and cool dude is even higher after watching this. As for Andrew... well. Less said about that, the better.
Andrew made himself look like an idiot here
No he didn't.
@@cjatwnty8301 he absolutely did. He formed almost every basis of his argument on his own anecdotal experiences and the people that he’s worked with. He also compares the questions asked to non-relevant situations and then strawmans them.
@clo187 So fixing lumbar spinal injuries with science and understanding good technique is anecdotal?
@@awilson96 one of the foremost thinkers in our profession, and then there's a bellend with a padlock round his neck.
@@cjatwnty8301 don't claim that he uses science when he disregards every study and refuses to stay up to date in his field
Listening to Lock is more painful than low back pain
Wish I could injure my back to distract from it. Got deadlifts later might go for it.
This should be the top comment.
😂
Jared: “how do you measure dysfunctional movements?”
Lock: “I can smell it”
Thanks for putting this out there Jared. I’ve no knowledge of this area, and am not familiar with Andrew prior to this. What a masterclass he gives which all students of science can learn from. Although I don’t think it’s the lesson for them that he thinks it is… How not to think 101. Popular module I reckon
Greg's frustration is palpable!
Bless Gregs heart for his patience with this guy.
As though having Stuart McGill as a teacher or not would invalidate his thesis? Gotcha
Andrew -"he might have science on his side but I have a world record and many other logical fallacies, allow me to go off topic and distract them with bullshit about bike seats"
He's happy to dismiss all studies that disprove his nonsense with ad hominin shite with "the researchers don't lift but here's my anecdote who does lift"
Yeah, that first bit was super cringe to listen to.
I'm 15 minutes in; Never heard of Andrew Lock before, but he's not doing well. And it seems like he's reading up from a script. And that weird ad hominem early on. What a weird character.
He doesn’t even do the movements he’s trying to educate others about. Total fraud
His parents told him that he could be anything he wanted to be, so he became an embarrassment.
Greg’s facial expressions through this interview is priceless.
Lock is like a villain out of a childrens comedy. Also after this, we should agree that he deserves no more attention. Lehman on the other hand is an absolute hero. Thanks for enduring! And thanks to Jared for setting it up.
Stop calling clowns "heroes". This is nothing but ego, every, single one of these bros. Makes me wanna puke.
I just think of technique as being task specific and lifting a barbell is a pretty specific lift. In contrast, atlas stone lifters get crazy amounts of flexion/extension through their lifts because they kind of have to, and I would challenge anyone to tell them to keep a neutral spine... th-cam.com/video/UwnkUE6Qg9I/w-d-xo.html
The main issue I see with Andrew's argument is that he fails to account for tissue adaptation to load. Like, why is it that with repetitive careful planning and loading you can building hip and knee strength but omg if you flex the spine repetitively it'll ONLY wear down and not adapt.. 🙄
Favourite part being Greg going “shit show” after the opening statement 😂
This is brilliantly entertaining! The notion that you can't have a view unless you've completed that activity is so flawed. Hope Andrew doesn't have to treat any dancers any time soon.
Jesus it’s painful to listen to this guy. Thinking he knows more about what Greg has published and researched than the man himself 😂😂😂 (I’m only 5 mins in)
Fwiw Lock I'm 90% certain Lock never squats or deadlifts. Which makes what he said 100x stupider.
Especially considering Lock competes “bench only”.
Also, imagine being so proud of a 200kg “world record” bench as a 140kg lifter who doesn’t need to squat and pull in the same meet, in a federation that openly states that they do not drug test.
For reference, Taylor Atwood put up 200kg in the 73kg class (half an Andrew Lock) in a full power meet (squat bench deadlift) in the IPF (with fairly strict drug testing), and only missed it because he jumped the press command.
This whole chat:
Greg, let me make balanced, reasonable and evidence based points.
Andrew, here's a script with a bunch of biomechanical assumptions and personal digs.
Good lord, when I saw this advertised on Instagram I knew there were gonna be fireworks, and the final product did not disappoint. Andrew really did not come off good in this. Broad sweeping claims without elaboration, anecdotal evidence, strawmen, and cheesy oversimplifications that his poor clients probably eat up without question. Also very convenient how he missed any of O'Sullivans current research due to being the busiest man in the world, but also had time to compile tons of other studies that back his bias, and from the looks of it write a full script for this debate.
Propped his computer on a stack of whoppers. So fancy.
He also says O’Sullivans courses are worthless despite having never done them.
Then attacks anyone who hasn’t done a McKenzie course and had an opinion on it lol.
Thank you for putting this all together. I was really looking forward to this debate. Andrew did not really answer questions he just either used cheesy sayings or said “it’s fact”. I hope another actual debate can be put together about this topic.
Thank you Greg and Jared for keeping it together!
The podcast we never asked for but always needed
I found the hardest part of this was my respect for Andrew Lock and his statements fighting with my distaste for how he handled this.
Only just found this podcast, love it, keep up the good work
Would love to see Greg come back with a second adult guest, I think it'll be more productive
Maybe have the debaters define their terms at the start, Andrew uses a different definition of injury than a lot of sources
I now have low back pain after the first 10 minutes of Lock.
I've never heard of Lock before (he's was irrelevant before this and even more so after this - if that's a thing, even). He's clearly not all that intelligent (me lift heavy weight ≠ sound clinical knowledge) despite his credentials, is obtusely arrogant and is obviously reading from a script. Greg is well-spoken, actually educated on the topic and the only reason this episode might be worth watching in full - I'm not fully sure. I'm just 20 minutes in and am not sure if I'll be able to manage through to the end.
Just because you can sound smart doesn't mean you are. Lock is well known in aus. I think he also just had to make a more aggressive stance for the point of a debate
@@rhysbertrand8903 Except... he didn't make an aggressive stance as far as I'm concerned. He made a fool of himself. And for whatever it's worth... I did end up watching this whole thing. Lock didn't improve any throughout.
@@rhysbertrand8903 he's well known amongst the BBing and PLing fraternity.
Ask 1000 average health care professionals in Australia and you'd be lucky if 3 had heard of him before
Imagine choosing to wear a padlock around your neck
It is a symbol that he is locked in on not listening to other perspectives.
Andrew looks like penguin in Batman Returns, but more ignorant
I applaud all of these guys for getting together and agreeing to do this. However this is excruciating to watch. Bravo to Greg for not throwing his hands up and quitting in the first 10
Minutes of this thing. Between the script, the personal attacks and the irrelevant opening about performance from Andrew I’m struggling to get through this.
Imagine not being able to just answer a question or talk about a topic that you claim to be one of the best instead you read.... Greg did so well to tolerate Andrew's "debate"
“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.”
I first came across Andrew Lock when I saw his picture in the wikipedia entry for "sleep apnoea"...
I was going to post "Andrew looks like the poster child for sleep apnea".
@@ADX77 great minds eh?
(A category that definitely doesn’t include Andrew Lock, apparently).
Well I bought tickets to a Greg seminar after this
Thanks for sharing this content with us. I hope videos like this one will encourage all physios to reconsider some of our beliefs and biases
i don't know whether to laugh or cry at Andrew Lock, he is such an unsympathetic person.
Second year of physio school I thought Locke was super cool. Bit embarrassing in hind sight to think I ever gave the guy credit. Absolutely love how capable of ambivalence Lehman is. Always measured and contextual. The script by Locke shows just how boxed in, uncontextual and rigid he is. All the ad homs he pulls out of those scripts shows just how personal he takes this. Just makes me want to scream: It's not about you mate, it's about real people with real pain and doing the best we can for them.
Yeah, the ignorant will view nuance and ambivalence as ignorance, not realizing that he is in fact caught in the logic of false dichotomies and absolutism.
It's a shame that younger physios also look to SquatU as their hero. At least a charlatan like Locke was only a part of your learning process. A lot of physios seem to just stay in that outdated biomedical realm.
TWELVE SECONDS IN - Lock lifts his mug and presents it to the camera momentarily before he raises it to his mouth.
The mug says "TOTAL FUCKING LEGEND", and Lock's mug says "total smug tool", which explains his attitude for the rest of the episode.
Should have brought the chewing gum.
Man I wish Andrew actually presented his arguments in a civil and mannered way, congratulations Greg and Jared for surviving him.
If this is the best Lock could come up with - even having written it down - I'd hate to hear what he would come up with without extensive preparation.
He always sounds great in his videos because he has time to script it. This is the first time I've seen him in a "debate". Sweet lord.
Lock really thought he did something here... 😂🤦🏾♂️
Wow Andrew really came across poorly in this one. Good job Greg for being such a top guy I think he handled himself very well.
Great content, had no idea what was going on at times but I loved it. Thank you.
I'm 8 minutes in, does anyone have a way to edit out Lock? Can't even let someone answer a simple, simple question...
I had to watch this in parts while doing other things. It was so painful to watch.
Got 5 minutes in & wondered who Andrew Lock is and why he goes in so obnoxiously about Lehman's qualifications.
His monologue lists all of his accomplishments and denigrates Greg's trampolining & skateboarding. WTF? Having no idea who he is, I googled him. Top hit is his insta, so I had a look & the 2nd post was "opened a can of whoop ass on Greg early today".
Is Andrew intimidated by Greg? Certainly seems that way. What an insufferable boor.
In agreement with some of the other posters here. Lock does himself and his views a disservice by attacking Greg for the first 10 minutes of the video. I really wanted to hear a rational discussion of different views similar to Chad and Adam's which was 10/10 content and thought-provoking. This was hard to listen to because every decent point Andrew makes is surrounded by anecdotes or he is not open to discussing the breadth of the literature. His views regularly boil down to "That's a fact" cause one study said so, completely ignoring the uncertainty of all the available research. I'd love you to run through this type of discussion again with a more level-headed modern thinker.
Well said.
Ooof this is painful. Why no one called Locke out for reading his resume for self high five championship of credibility by association is beyond me. Strategy, talk so long off topic that people can’t remember all the flaws in my position. Then when other person speaks, strawmen them out or context to achieve a false sense of winning the argument. Was it a Political debate or research? How deranged do you have to be to brag about a less than 2x bodyweight bench press. This video provides evidence of pain, as expressed in the faces of Greg and Jared.
On Instagram he was gloating, saying he WON the debate and CONVERTED him to his side.......I seriously don't think he even knew he was debating someone.
Thanks so much for posting! Any chance we could get a reference list of all the studies they mention? 🙏
Coming in to discredit someone off the bat is not a good look and neither is reading a script just to get your point out. One thing I tell everyone, therapists and patients is that low back pain is a symptom. A symptom of what? Sometimes we may know and others we don't. Treat the patient not the diagnosis
Why is Andrew Lock reading from a script?
insecurity
Pardon the pun, but this was painful to watch. If there was ever an example of the Dunning Kruger effect, this is it.
How old is Greg? He looks very young to have done his Masters 23 years ago.
Would enjoy hearing a conversation regarding load at it relates to the CNS.
Just looked up Lock’s “world record” bench.
200kg in an obscure, non-drug-tested federation. He did it bench only (so no squat or DL) in the 140kg class.
An impressive bench, for sure, but not a “record” I’d hang my hat on, considering the IPF record for the bench is higher than 200kg in every men’s weight class above 66kg. Full power and drug tested, too.
Considering how much he wants to challenge credentials it’s hysterical too lol
@@austinwilliams3120 yeah man, his “do you even lift bro” attitude is pretty hilarious in light of this.
Maybe we should have him chat to Austin and Jordan from Barbell Medicine, both of whom have benched more than Lock’s “record” while weighing
Epic episode! Well done :)!
Can anyone tell me what the name of the paper greg keeps saying. The transcript keeps giving me nonsense. Minute 38:25 sec please
That first part was painful for me to watch
GOAT Lehman
🇬🇧🇨🇦👍🏻 thank you for respectful, informative content.
Wow, Andrew Lock comes off so repulsive at the beginning that it's hard to get into the actual debate. It would be great to have Greg on again with a more thoughtful human.
Really thought we'd get farther through the interview before the personal attacks begun
Oof this got even worse with time. Andrew seems fundamentally incapable of admitting that the old studies that govern his "principles" are still currently disputed hence why you can't base your entire clinical thought process over it
I'm Australian, and have been familiar with, and followed Greg's work for years. I've never even heard of Andrew Lock 🥴 why is this?
This was fucking awesome
Does anyone have a link to the paper Greg was talking about? Forgive my spelling Schwazy-Adelab?
For the most part, I agree with andrew's point of view... but I have to say I'm disappointed with how he conducted himself here
Wow, this was an epic intellectual battle between two professionals. I'm agnostic on who won the debate but as a lifter I tend to listen more to practitioners who have the education plus are also world-class athletes. Although academic research papers have their place, to me they are inferior to practitioners who also can demonstrate the efficacy of their opinions through feats of physical performance. In the Marine Corps we had a saying that if you are explaining you're losing - specifically by promoting your academic credentials over your accomplishments.
The fact that Andrew is allowed near humans is horrifying
andrew lock looks like a villain 😆
In those first few minutes, Lock showed that he does not understand how one goes about writing a thesis. Oof
Only criticism is each speaker needs to have relatively equal time to speak - had to skip thru some sections where someone went on awhile…
18:35 😂
Great catch! Thank you!
Locke's "don't trust a non-lifter who researches lifting" is such an insanely weird argument. What about biologists who research bird migration, astronomers who research solar systems, and physicists who measure quantum phenomena... are these scientists any less legit because they themselves dont fly, appear in space, or wiggle like strings?
An ad hominem is technically when you conclude your opponent’s wrong because of their poor character etc. Simply insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
This was hard to watch…
The scripted responses being seemingly read verbatim by Andrew were painful
why does Andrew sound so "scripted" through this whole thing?
He was probably reading off a script he wrote in advance which explains why he sometimes wasn’t answering Greg’s points and instead answering his own questions (guests get the questions in advance).
Definitely reading a script. 100%
Totally looks like he went in with an agenda and thinking he was going to wipe the floor with Lehman.He had his script all prepared & was so smugly confident he wasn't able to adapt and actually listen.
Why are so many youtube debates so frustrating to watch?
Right from the getgo, andrew tries to tell greg what he got his masters in 😂😂😂
I made one comment on Andrew's Insta, asking why he wouldn't talk to someone who disagreed with him, and he blocked me instantly. Bit of a weak move from a strong man 🤷🏻♀️
This is painful to watch. Greg Lehman published at least 5 studies with Dr Stu MgGill and Andrew Lock is arguing semantics that he never studied "under" McGill. And I'm only at 7 minutes in... Let's see what other gems this provides!
Well! Lock has given me a brain hemorrage
Imagine include stu mcgill also..its gonna be insane haha
Everything Locke says sounds prepared and sound dogmatic, but there's no 'discussion'
I actually enjoyed Andrew Lock’s points.
What ones exactly?
@@lanceneuscheler7141 both Greg and him agreed that technique does matter lol especially when understanding torque around the axis of rotation of a joint. Asides from a few outliers, most heavy lifters that are pushing and pulling the heaviest weights all have the same geometry of their stature during the lifts.
Greg argues that’s there’s more than technique which fills up the “cup” … but Andrew is arguing that the patients he sees are the ones who injure their bodies after excessive improper lifting and that the problems are solved when coached with a bit of lesson on technique.
Don’t know why people are hating on Andrew and even making claims that he’s reading off of a paper. He’s articulated and I guess people don’t like articulated people now adays? How can you even tell he’s reading from a script without any proof anyways. Keep hating ppl.
@@ahLeftside28 "Asides from a few outliers, most heavy lifters that are pushing and pulling the heaviest weights all have the same geometry of their stature during the lifts" - a cursory glance at any world level powerlifting meet will demonstrate how untrue this is.
Also, what is "improper lifting"? Can you provide a definition for this?
@@NickJennison mechanical advantage. Ask your friend Greg
@@ahLeftside28 Which point is that in response to? Also, I don’t know Greg. I don’t work in the same field as him, or even live on the same continent 😂
Sick necklace 🤮🤮
I imagine I probably agree with Andrew but can’t even get past the ten minute mark. So cringe
Andrew is a bit odd, but does make many great points, as does Greg. We should not like our dislike for his mannerisms cause us to miss some of his more reasonable and valid points.
I don't know how Andrew can even participate, if you point out a contradiction in his work he blocks you.
He says don't fear disc bulges.
Then he says lift "properly" so you don't herniate a disc.....
The disc bulge that didn't need to be feared...
Andrew Lock attacking the other person before it even started was ridiculous. What a waste of time.
Dr. Lock smacks down hard! But he makes sense...
Andrew Lock presented very interesting arguments, but his vulgar attitude was repulsive. Regardless of his reputation and the validity of his arguments, using ad hominems on Jared and Greg was rude and disrespectful. Jared was wise to say that we need to be more open to other people's perspectives and that even if we disagree, we should do so in a respectful manner.
@Pinned .by. Jared Powall Please stop impersonating Jared Powell
@Pinned .by. Jared Powall Please stop impersonating Jared Powell
I believe PTs have caused more harm than good by telling clients with LBP to not bend their spines. Its insane. The spine flexes and if you dont use it, you lose it. The big guy is very confrontational, unfortunately. It shows poor tolerance to open mindedness.
Lost all respect for Andrew in this
Jared, as a moderator, why didn't you clarify that you don't need a thesis that is ULTRA specific to biomechanics in order to get a masters in biomechanics?
I reckon Greg handled himself just fine without me intervening
Andrew is annoying me.
God even disregarding the obvious script Andrew read off at the start, he sounds so fake this whole interview
I didint know that babies can bench 200kg. He is just a big cry babie😅