4WD vs AWD Off-Road
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2020
- 4WD vs AWD Off-Road
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"So that's where LSD kicks in"
Nice👌🏼
" I dont care who you are" was the best part of the video!
Thats it!
I'm telling my wife that Ronny said "you need lockers on the 200"
my wife got excited when said we can get LSD...
slowboat 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We all think this is necessary. It’s a safety issue.
I think there is some other "adult" meaning of this line other than the technical one😅😅😅
@@slowboat6021 what's so funny about LSD...it's limited-slip differential......or is there something else😅😅😅
This is the only video on the internet that is correctly telling the exact differences between a 4WD and an AWD.....THANK YOU
What's 4L? He only discussed 4H
@@pictureBigger I'm no mechanic but from my 4wding experience 4L is the same as 4H however its a different gear ratio which gives more torque, just think kinda about going up a very steep hill, Second Gear will be much easier to get up the hill than 5th gear, 4H is kinda like 5th gear made for going fast and 4L is for more torque and less rotations. P.S If anyone wants to correct me then feel free but I think even if I'm wrong I'm still on the right idea
Except he forgot about Honda Real Time 4 Wheel Drive system on the old CR-V.
@@AppalachiaDreamin please! brief us about that if you know anything
@@Raven-cf5qd you are right mate....in 4L no change occurs in the engine characteristics but in the way the power is channelled to the wheels......in 4L a separate gear is provided in the transfer case which limits the rpm being transferred to the wheels......since for the same power, torque is inversely proportional to the rpm so we get an increased torque output and low rpm at the wheels.....
Ronny, Subaru Foresters are fantastic on sand. They've had no trouble doing the Simpson and Hay River track on trips with our club. Didn't have to pull them out anywhere. The Land Rover soft roaders are truly excellent as well. They do lock the centre power transfer unit on specific terrain response programs and the LR traction control is first class. You are absolutely correct about the strength of the under body components. The good soft roaders will strip pinions and gears remarkably easy in tough situations.
Gotta get that STI drivetrain swap for the locking center diff and LSD front and rear diffs.
Even the older Brumby was fantastic in sand. Especially the powdery kind you find on fraser.
He said driving skills make the difference
@@AngryTurds Because it was a part time 4WD with a proper hi-lo transfer case. I had an RX coupe - same shape and drivetrain as the Brumby, with the exception of an LSD in the rear and dual twin throat carbs (that thing was a monster). I bought it for skifield access roads & gravel roads - and for that purpose it was excellent - almost unstoppable, but as soon as underbody clearance became an issue e.g. snow deeper than about 20cm, or rocks, or soft sand, then it was game over, and the real 4WDs would just keep on keeping on.
Subaru also has a 50/50 split in their symmetrical AWD system. You can also get a bigger centre diff viscous coupling (20kg) and rear auto lockers are available. I've even seen a Forester do the $1000 track.
i agree in some parts although I have a "Softroader" that goes almost ALL places that my "Offroader" friends venture too. 2018 Outback 2018 seems to go almost everywhere. Beach work across Fraser Island, I never had any issues in the 5 days of venturing. I am a basic learner driver.
My 25 year old FWD sedan doesn't have a lock to send equal torque to both wheels, but when it senses free-wheelng, it just actuates only that brake caliper, so then the torque has no other place to go than the other wheel :) Thanks whoever at Citroen / Bosch came up with that. Combined with the stock hydraulic suspension, it has gotten me out of some off-road binds.
A BIG THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART ❤, i was really confused about the central differential lock functionality but you make it crystal clear
As a 30 year auto technician, I thought this was a very good explanation of the different systems. There are always exceptions to the full time and awd systems, but they are rare.
I drive one of the original AWD's that can be made 4 WD. It is a bit unique in that it used a limited slip differential for the center diff which sent more power to the axle with more traction. It works extremely well in loose traction situations. The center diff can also be locked to turn the drive into true 4x4 if needed and has low range, which was a option for that era. Thanks for the video, George.
Wow! This is the CLEAREST explanation I have ever had on 4WD vs AWD. All my doubts cleared. Thank you Ronny!
Good vid. My mate's son has been driving his old Forester on Moreton for years. He's a good driver despite his age, he gets away with it by using momentum etc but, as you said, once a wheel leaves the ground in soft sand it's all over. Driver skill is the most important factor. I've seen so many people in big 4x4s stuck in situations they shouldn't have been in because of poor choices. Keep doing what you do.
My former Subaru Legacy was an AWD but it had a transfer with low range. It was a "weapon" climbing rocky roads. Only its 2 inches clearance penalized it :D.
Thank you! I took my battle wagon places it was never ment to go and it always pulled though. ( looks at wagon Hey you know you weren't ment to ford that river? You were supposed to get stuck cause awd isn't 4x4. Car looks back" your here and dry arnt you what's your complaint?) Lol :)
When I first got my Discovery 1 I went for a drive in the Adelaide Hills looking for dirt tracks to explore. I found one and headed down it. quickly turning to scrub I couldn't turn around. No problem, I'll just reverse up the track. Put it in reverse and started spinning a rear wheel but not going anywhere. As you know the Discovery 1 is full time 4WD BUT being new to the car I had forgotten to lock the center diff. I was essentially now a 1 wheel drive vehicle as it sent all the power to the path of least resistance with all 3 diffs open. As soon as I locked the center diff i easily crawled out and was able to reverse up the track with no problem at all. Had that have been a standars AWD vehicle I would have had to acll for help. Another situation I found myself in, I went camping with a mate who had the same Discovery but he had front and real lockers. he looked at this steep rocky climb and pointed his car right at it. I heard the buzzing of the compressor locking the diffs, his wife got out and looked away and he easily crawled up this hill with well worn AT tyres. I had a go, same vehicle but i had new mud tyres and I had NO chance getting up this rocky climb as the rocks had the axels crossed up and I just span oposite corners. Speaks for itself really doesn't it. the more lockable diffs you have the better. The slower you can attack obstacles with less damage to the track and your vehicle. But I have also heard it said with lockers you can also get yourself in more trouble, I guess that comes down to the driver knowing the vehicle.
Had a mate do the same thing and forget about the CDL in his new defender, was mostly embarrassing for him cos I'd gone straight up the hill in question in my bravo.
Locked differentials can cause the vehicle to swerve. A good example is watching a (2WD) Pre Runner climb a hill with the rear diff locked: it will swerve to one side. In a crucial scenario, like driving on a slippery ledge, you're better off going open diff unless or until you need to lock up, to avoid any swerving around.
I’ve taken my 2005 Hyundai Santa 2.7 V6 all over Stockton Beach and sand hills, no worries , only minor problem was the lower ground clearance. I let my tyres town to give me a greater foot print, that’s it. As I understand it is a full time 4x4 system. Maybe I was lucky
I now have a new 2020 Santa Fe 2.2 diesel. Just drove it across deep soft sand onto the beach at Minni Waters on the NSW north coast all the way to Sandon. Across the soft sand up a hill, then the sand track into Sandon. Again ground clearance wasn’t an issue, but took it easy, chose my lines carefully. This system I believe is a part time set up. I locked it into 4 wheel drive, I didn’t even let the tyres down, not a problem, it was amazing.
Then did it all in reverse. I waited to low tide to make sure I had plenty of time to get off incase of dramas. I was very impressed with both my Hyundai’s. I would never take it anywhere too serious, they are not meant for it.
Having said that, I have had had a little bit of experience with a Suzuki Vitara I owned. These blokes are a little bit on themselves just get pissed off when they see a family sedan sitting on a sand hill next to there expensive set ups!
Clear as day, thanks for teaching this chick. Teacher mode, definitely helped👌
Outdated info on AWD! New Subarus will fully lock the center diff when it needs to to gain traction and it uses abs to give traction left to right. Hondas actually can even transfer power left to right up to complete lock although it really doesn't work as well as the Subarus. Not trying to say it compares to a 4wd with lockers but it is much better on snow or sand because the center diff allows the front wheels to be a different speed then the rears for turning.
Good on driving beach sand maybe when the terrain is pretty much flat, but I'd love to see your Suburu keep up with a Patrol going up and around the rutted soft sand dunes of Wilbinga (WA). The lack of clearance and lack of vertical wheel travel will let you down
@@nissan_tb48 I'd love to visit WA friend. I don't experience sand rutted that bad here in the states.
Honda doesn’t work as good as Subaru? The ones in the USA have arguably the best AWD system in the world right now. Look at both these Instagram video clips and see why. By the way, not even a 4x4 with traction control will get up this obstacle, so you’re right... Ronny’s info is outdated.
instagram.com/p/BwPLMv-Hi3F/?igshid=f2jgq2xgisz1
My god, you explained that better than anybody I’ve heard (even better than me ;).
Very informative. Thank you for making videos like the one I just watched.
AWESOME VIDEO. You've provided a great deal of information.
Ronny, This is honestly about the best down to earth explanation and example of a real 4WD/4X4 compared to a AWD. 👍
He's not really fully explaining the entirety of AWD though. Check out my longer comment about this. Mechanical AWD is not the same as 'Traction Control AWD' as Ronny discusses.
I've done Big Red 3 times in my Subaru XV twice from the West and once from the east. I've driven fire trails, Stockton beach, meneree loop rd etc. AWD drives are quite capable for most off road work.
The suburu VX is more a full time 4wd due to having a centre diff lock.
The moment awd has a centre diff lock, its called full time 4wd. Just no low range gearbox.
Ronny your the only one to actually explain the difference in a style anyone can understand ---- I got dobbed off trying to tell a Honda CRV owner ---- showed them this video ---- brilliant 🤗
Excellent video Ronny. You make a good teacher, and I'm all the better for it. 👍
Having owned both 4WD and Subaru (AWD) I can say both have their advantages. You cant compare say a Subaru AWD with a Honda CRV or RAV 4 etc as only Subaru have the technology that leaves these cars behind. For heavy duty off road, heavy towing and water crossings a diesel 4WD is the go. A lot of 4WD comes down to 3 things.... Tyre choice, tyre pressure and driver skill. My Subaru will eat most large 4WD's on sand as it's much lighter has produces more power than a lot of its bigger friends plus it's way more fun. But all AWD's are not the same either. If you want some fun, a good all round vehicle then Subarus are great cars and IMO the best choice. But if your towing a caravan, will be negotiating steep rutty hills or deep water then go the bigger car.
Now that was a fair review David. I was a little miffed by Ronny'e selective generalisations, half baked stories and even some misrepresentation. I think with this vid, he let us (his audience) down by repeating half truths, omitting facts and making misleading statements.
@@BenMitro I found his sand comment misleading as my little turbo out does most large 4wd cars except those who have paid huge money for modifications. One thing he didn't mention was price, a huge factor when choosing a car for anyone.
@@DavidNieuwenhoven Agreed - its horses for courses rather than better or worse.
Ahh someone who used logic!
I have a 2015 Dacia Duster diesel (a Duster is pictured at the end of the video) with a 2 inch Bilstein lift, 29.5 inch BFG K02s, a rear Torsen auto locker, an engine remap, full skid plating, winch and a snorkel. It’s a beast.
I overland my Subaru Forester and that was an awesome choice 👊
I thought id find you in the comments. I was going to put something in the comments to defend the Subarus but looks like it's plenty covered already
Subarus and Mitsubishis typically have a limited slip type of center differential and many have factory rear LSD's. I even put an auto-locker in the front of my 95 Eagle Talon (2nd gen Eclipse basically) it will beat a 4x4 in snow dirt and grass until the sports car ground clearance becomes an issue lol
I was hoping someone commented this. A lot of the AWD CUVs are quite capable with the right tires. The Foz and X-Trail/Rogue are some I've seen people do extreme stuff with, especially Russians.
Kia Sorento's are AWD with a low lock, they take them through Moab
What you do I your Subaru many 4wd could not. He doesn’t quite understand awd systems
Fantastic video. Explains everything you really need to know.
Thank you so much. Beautifully explained. All doubts clear. Hats off and Best of luck.
AWD vs 4WD is hugely different, I've noticed that lately there has been some All Wheels driving around with decent off road traction control systems. You'd be surprised but certainly they are different systems but some can achieve similar results. Subaru's been doing a decent job, even I was surprised. I also seen a Holden Commodore AWD 2 weeks ago in a spot where I had my Jeep and I gotta tell ya I had no idea about how capable they where until I had seen it myself.
Might have been us we recall running into a Jeep 2-3 years ago in the high country, on Burgoynes Track? You told us we had no chance, yet you where behind us the whole way to Chromite Mine Tk and couldn't believe it before pulling off to setup for camp? We're still going same vehicle, today - been even tougher places!
Im an avid true 4wd owner but have driven some AWD in off-road tracks. Some AWD can have the centre diff locked 50/50. The lack of articulation and clearance are their Achilles heal. Steve
Thanks Steve. Its good to correct the record.
Hi, greetings from Boynton Beach, Florida! Awesome videos and great work! I had no idea there was a difference btw the 2. Great instructional presentation. Thank you!
Thanks mate for this splendid explaination of 4WD. Now i have better understanding of my Lux. Cheers from Malaysia! Hopefully one day I can come over for some 4x4 trip down under.
That was a very informative video. It was exactly what i needed in order to search in the right direction for a new car. Thank you.
I read a lot of complains, not without a reason, about the Subaru and its awd, witch is consider as good as a 4wd.
To begin with the video states “most Subaru's”, not all Subaru's, so it acknowledge the bizarre Subaru status in the awd.
The Subaru has an awd, that when the cars computer recognizes the need, locks the central differential and tries to emulate the front and rear diff lock with breaks and torque. Also some models has low gearing and actually there are so many different awd Subaru's out there.
The difference from cars with similar systems (haldex clutch, Electronic Locking Differential, etc), is that there is no manual locking of the central differential and by that transforming the awd to full 4wd is based to a computer decision.
So the car can swift from awd to 4wd any given time without prior notice and with a lag that might be a problem. The Subaru system is great but when you are offroading you don't know how to drive the car. The best way is to act like you are driving in normal road and let the car corrects you, but that's makes the ride more tiresome and puts the cars system in an unnecessary stress. Also its easy to be stuck or worse, especial if you make a wrong decision about the torque or steering, because the car might misinterpret your actions.
So Subaru has an awd system that falls to full 4wd but its not a driver decision and this creates limitations.
That is why fiat Panda, for example, is sold as a 4wd and Subaru as awd. In Panda a special button locks the center differential (you can't drive at normal road), activates the front rear braking emulated differential lock and disables the ASR (anti spin), so you can drift safely in mad and snow without the car trying to correct you.
So yes Subaru's system is a great awd, almost a 4wd system but far from it.
One thing that should be noted about AWDs as well is that if you're seeing a lot of slip a lot of them will eventually overheat. They're not designed to always be sending power both front and back (Subaru being the exception).
RAV4 works great as well.
Very good vid. And I must concur, my Power Wagon with front and rear lockers is AMAZING!!
That was a good education on 4x4 vs AWD. Thanks!
Thanks for the video! My wife has an AWD Rav4 and I do like that she has the option to “lock” the vehicle into an AWD state, which basically makes it an open diff 4wd that you cannot go over 25mph in. I don’t think it sends as much power to the rear as a standard 4wd, but it makes it much better if stuck in a static position. Also why we take my truck when we go anywhere truly offroad!
Honestly, you don't really need locked center diff at higher speed.
The lock state locks the center diff making it the same as what 4WD high range would be in a conventional 4x4 system....but you are speed limited to 25mph in the RAV4 with that center diff lock engaged, it sends 50/50 torque front/rear when you lock it in AWD....it does work great, got to play with a 2018 RAV4 AWD for several days as a loaner while my truck was in the shop, and got lucky, we had 10 inches of snow that I got to play in. I have to say with the stock all season tires and just letting the AWD system figure things out itself, it did very well, but you could really tell a difference when you'd lock it in AWD it would spin all 4's quite easily but it would get itself moving much easier too.
RAV4 can be taken truly offroad as well.
Clearly have a different definition of “anywhere“. I do wonder if this is a mechanical lock or just an electronic system attempting to split power.
@@HardstylePete Why do we have a different definition of "Anywhere"? We use my wifes Rav4 for commuting and basic road trips (but it is nice to have AWD if needed), and we use my 4x4 truck anytime we are going "anywhere" off road, i.e. intentionally off road.
I've got a 95 Chevy Astro all-wheel drive with the rear locking differential and front limited slip
Thank you so much for this video. I am about to choose a system and was not quite sure about the AWD system. Now I know. So easily explained!.
This is an awesome explanation. You are a good teacher Ronny.
Subaru : Hold My Beer
Tlc 80 will drink it)
Toyota with the king of off-road Land Cruiser: hold my mechanics
So, I asume the best AWD is Subaru.
Yeah when he mentioned how the awd relies on computers for sending power that's not true in subarus case. We have a liquid mechanical case that senses it and moves the power where needed. That's why people love the subaru awd system, it's proven .
And unlike the problem of a 4wd it sends power to the wheels that HAVE traction
Subaru Foresters have 50/50 split, and some came out from factory with low range.
yes which makes it a full time 4wd, not a AWD.
If i remember correctly the old ones used to actually say full time 4wd on the back
With the cvt ??? I have a 2016 forester xt and it is not good when off roading
@@dominiclussier8810 a lift kit and some decent all terrains will change that dramatically.
Subarus automatic AWD system is different from their manuals. The automatics don't usually have a constant 50 50 split.
@@Sean-sn6gn the AWD system is literally the same.
I live in the Netherlands and drive a Suzuki Vitara 2019 1400 turbo automatic All wheel Drive. Amazing little Suv. Great in snow and i have been moderate off-road and this little thing goes a lot places. Yes not a proper 4wd but it gets the job done. As a hobby i owe a 1978 Range Rover 2 door V-8 manual. An icon off-road.
Great content as always. Cheers mate very informative 👍
Nice video and well explained. I would like to add the fact that many AWD-car manufacturers use different techniques. Subaru indeed has, within the AWD range, one of the best systems in my opinion. But the chassis from, for example the landrover, is way better for rough terrain. I did own several 4WD's including Landrover and Rangerover. They performed good. But the last 4 cars I bought were all Subaru's. I now own an Forester 2005. Why, simply for the reaseon that they are very, very reliable and perform exellent in the way I use them off road. (you cant go rockclimbing in the Netherlands. We have mud, sand and snow sometimes.) But I did have a lot of fun with the others cars too, but when it comes to reliability my personal experience is that not much cars can beat the Subaru. Two of my cars, Legacy and Forester made more than 500.000 km!! One of them is still running. So I understand the Subaru comments very well. It also makes a huge difference what tyres you have. My Subaru with Grabber AT3 tyres for example will perform way better than a Landrover with standard tyres. What I am trying to say is that going off-road is more then just having 4WD or AWD. But as been written, nice explained video and mostly correct but not for the Subaru's.
I can remember left foot braking in an old jeep that had open front and rear diffs just to apply resistance to the spinning wheel on the axel so the other size would pull you out.
Its now called brake lock differentials (Jeep's BLD as they call it) LOL....just done with electronics through the ABS and traction control systems now rather than the driver doing it themselves.
Apart from the discussion here this TH-cam brought us wonderfull people to our screen for free. A great resource for good information if you are willing to.I haven't watched the stupid box for years. Thanks Ronny.
Always CLEAR! Tks!, Ronny.
That Duster you've mentioned actually has an option to lock the centre differential.) I won't say it's in any way comparable to your Toyota in terms of durability and off-road capabilities, but I'd say it will get you much further than a regular 2WD vehicle.
Other than that - thanks for the video, it was interesting to watch.
I can confirm that my Subaru 4eat can lock the Center diff too 👍
"oi we're having a night out with the boys"
"Sorry lads can't tonight I'm tired"
5:07
legend 🤙
"But that's where LSD comes in handy"
Thanks chaps, I finally understand the differential erm difference.
perfect
explanation, now i actually understand full time 4WDs and i'am not so imtimidated by idea of getting one
I rate my Forester highly in the sand. Just a case of airing down and using low range when needed like anyone else.
I drop my tyres to 12-16psi on sand and cruise through 90% in 2H
there should be no reason to air down or use low range if you have properly locking diffs and 4wd.
9:04 Dacia Duster for the win !
It is too bad he chose this picture as an example because you can indeed lock the central differential on a Dacia Duster.
Thank you so much for this awesome and useful video ❤️👋🏻
Best video in TH-cam,thanks for the explanation !!
My Pajero sport has 2H, 4H, 4H locked centre and 4L locked centre, best of all the worlds!
When do you use 4L, and do you keep transmission on D or L with 4L. If you can answer as I am confused with my Pathfinder
I like the super select system in the Pajero Sport, I can’t seem to find a reason for the 100km/h speed limit for 4H with the open centre diff thought; isn’t it almost the same as an AWD at that point?
I love Ronny’s bush... I mean Ronny in the bush
Weirdo
Fred Floyd Gay, no judgement.
Weird flex Fred 😲
Well done - computerized controls can be very challenging. My truck is full-time 4wd, but has traction control. Bad experience - thought I had the traction control off while trying to break free in some deep mud. I later realized a front IFS half-shaft had slipped out when I caught some air earlier. Regardless, traction control was fighting against my momentum. I didn’t realize until I got out. My driver side rear caliper was literally on fire. Fortunately, was plenty of mud around to smother the fire!
A minor correction. In a 4WD you get bind up between the front and the rear, not between R and L sides. Without F or R dif lockers R and L sides are free to spin a different rates, but the front and rear drive shats must spind the same rate. Going around a turn the front wheels (combined) travel a greater distance than the rear wheels combined. So the F driveshaft/wheels must spin faster than the rear driveshaft/wheels.
Long time viewer, first time commenter. Love the channel Ronnie. My 4th gen AWD Rav4 has a center diff lock. It disengages over 25mph. With it engaged, plus traction control turned off, it is quite capable, albeit not like a true 4x4. It's gotten us places I didn't think it could make it. As long as two wheels aren't slippin' :P Happy with this little rig until we get our 4Runner in a couple of years. What are your thoughts on AWD with locking center diff?
Not exacty sure anout the Rav4 but most AWD with locking center diff is usually a center clutch plate (its not a diff).. and they overheat pretty fast (~5 to 10 mins) and disengages the lock automatically.
Right. Not a true locker but an electromagnetic multi-plate clutch/coupler. Still works great. Use it a lot and gets me out when I need it.
locking centre diff by definition makes it true 4x4 same as a subaru liberty
the quality of content you produce is just so professional and amazing really loved it! Thanks for educating us about this stuff I am glad i found your channel lots of love.
Very Informative thanks mate 👍🏾👍🏾
Great work mate and very informative 👍
I own an 80 series and love it , but..... subaru forester are the exeption to AWD being no good . Subaru's are great . Not as good as my 80 tho
I love having RWD AWD and 4WD #tritonlife
Great video. I learnt something today. Thanks
Approximate at 12:30 I had to smile at your "some will habe AWD or 4High and no 4Low."
My 4WD-truck actually is a 51 year old AWD, yet I can't go into locking the center diff without going in low. Daimler Benz back then designed it just the other way around. I have either AWD-high or 4WD-low and nothing in between.
Anyway, Ronny, you did very well explained the issue in general to the world. Exvellent done!
I've been on many trails where 4wds have been stuck and even rescued a couple in my Subaru Forester with all terrain tires without any problems, especially in sand.
Didnt he talk in a general terms when discussing awd vehicles........ Course there are better awd vehicles then some others out there, subaru being one. It was a generalisation of all awd vehicles....Having said that id love to see you take that subaru out across the simpson desert solo and see how far you get 👍
@@krump7429 Yes, he did "generalise the AWD, but he was quite specific about 4WD's - with and without lockers etc. It was a heavily biased opinion piece in my view that merely propagates a myth and does not illuminate the facts. Each has its place off-road.
This is very few examples and could likely come down to driver error
Duel range foresters and outbacks have low range and the symmetrical system works very differently to the rest
@@krump7429 Several Subaru clubs have tackled the Simpson successfully
I will just add one thing. Some "AWD" systems do without a center differential. Wait, what? I know right. Think Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4. These are vehicles don't drive all the wheels all the time. The CR-V and RAV4 are default front wheel drive and engage a clutch to send some power to the rear axle. A clutch costs less than a differential and these systems are designed to keep costs low. That is also why all of the driveline components are smaller. But, to preserve the drivetrain components the clutch is designed to never fully engage and always have at least some slip, in essence using clutch slip to simulate a center differential. These systems are essentially part-time AWD. Some off the newer ones are a little better, but how good it is off road can vary between make, model, trim, and even options. Be sure of what you are getting before you buy, especially in the used market.
The Opinion of Matt I have a 2004 Saturn vue with AWD and I think it’s this “part time AWD” system you’re talking about, because the rear wheels only engage when the car detects loss of traction in the front. 99 percent of the time it’s only using the front wheels. I will admit, this system has gotten me out of deep snow very well before, but I wouldn’t use it for rough off roading.
@@CadgerChristmasLightShow Yep, you are probably right.
No question left unanswered. Thank you.
My 1988 Camry had the option to lock the center diff and get an equitable split front and rear. Amazing vehicle and far ahead of its time!
I'm usually careful about getting into situations with my 2002 Subaru Outback because I'm well aware it's not a 4x4 and just because it's old but the times when I have been in sketchy mud, sand, and loose gravel it has always taken it in stride. Thankfully it has an actual transmission, an automatic, but not one of those awful CVT's in the newer ones - don't want one of those.
Yeah Subaru's did quite well in muck that was until they switched to those garbage CVT's, now they can't get out of their own way offroad.
ya hafta disconnect/turn off all the Nannies.
@@solarfry That's what I like about my old Subie, no nannies to worry about.
Are the newer manuals good?
DISAGREE - hey Ronny love your work BUT I think this was an overstated vid. I am 61 years old and served in the Army for 35 years learning to drive an old series 1 LR at 21. Your comparo is innacurate in a few areas. Your comparison of your massive iron horses with every conceivable gadget on them compared to (your pics) of standard AWD bogged is totally misleading. If you put a set of AT's and a lift kit on most AWD's they will go thru sand with no dramas. The reason you see so many bogged is because the drivers are weekend wannabees. Have a look back at the Paris/Dakar rallies of the past and you will see the famous VW T3 Syncro smash the rest of the field 2 years in a row. The newer T5/6's are now the support vehicles for these rallies full to the brim of spares and tools and following (albeit slower) the competition vehicles. If you travel across Europe and North Africa these AWD's (with Haldex system) go anywhere except the harshest Rock Climbing (that is the one area you need your massive rigs I agree) - sand, mud, ice and deserts - bring it on. I did big red last year in my VW T6 fully lifted with 'Dakar' suspension and it ate it much to the disgust of the massive LC rigs who had a run up of nearly a K to get up - some didn't and drove the side track back to B/ville in disgust. I had people running over to ask me to do it again so they could get it on vid. YEP I can give you all the pics and vids of all of it. Just give me your email address. If not just Google VW Transporter in Morrocco or T5 Offroad to see all the Eu vids of what the Haldex system is now accomplishing. Great work mate love your stuff.
I have an Xc90 Volvo...agreed please read my comment thx.
Did the Subaru have BFG AT KO2s/3s or standard tires? was the Subaru lifted like your truck. Comparing peaches to Apples? Did the Subaru have the available rear lockers? hmmm...
Watched your video of your VW going up Big Red and it is indeed very impressive. But big red is easy mode in comparison to some of the big sandhills we have here in Western Australia where they have heaps of deep ruts that will cause any car without high clearance or enough wheel articulation to stop dead in its tracks. www.tiktok.com/@leandroygonia/video/6833322075877313797
Well said indeed. I think they screwed up a bit with this video. Even with full time 4wd when one wheel starts spinning,you're done.Unless you've got a centre diff lock.
A good AWD system with a good ABS/Traction Control is far more capable than got said in the videos.That and the fact that all pictures if 4wd cars were heavenly modified
against a bog standard Subaru with even a boat trailer behind it.AWD cars just need to be driven different than 4wd cars,as said by Roger Preston,the drivers are to blame in most cases.Even the best kitted out 4WD truck will fail if the driver has no clue how things work.
Fact is that overlanding doesn't mean Australia only.It very much depends were you going and in some places a very expensive fully kitted out JAP truck isn't the wise vehicle to take with youd
M Slagter guys, you’re missing the point. Forget about the vehicles depicted in this video. We are talking fundamental differences between 4WD and AWD. A great driver in a awd vehicle will go even further in a 4WD - that’s the point.
Now I finally get it. Went from a good car Honda CRV daily driver to a Toyota Tacoma that has 4H and 4L. Thank you for great explanation.
My pajero has both, love it. 4h, 4l, locking rear and a center locking diff.
4WD in a triton is fine on the road as long as you have super select it makes it much safer in the wet and gravel.
Super select is a full time 4x4 system isnt it? No Tritons here in the us, butits the same system as our Monteros
Broke Wrench super select can be 2H / 4H /4HLc / 4LLc which means 2wd-awd- 4x4H - 4x4L... and some models of the fourth generation has rear diff lockers...
4wd for actualy wheeling and AWD for camping in the sticks.
We had the 90 series for quite a long time before realising it was full time 4x4. Since the technique for using it was the same as our old 60, there was never an issue 😁
Not massively invested in the harder off roading stuff, but my 2021 rav4 cruiser does a good job on sand, mud, dirt and snow. It does what I need to, to get to those awesome camping spots that other cars can't get too. Ultimately, research pays off and don't go into anything blind and you'll have a good time.
It depends a lot on the specific AWD system, but I'm not really seeing the difference between AWD and 4WD (with open differentials). If you go for a serious off road vehicle it will be built tougher and will have limited slip/locking differentials, but there's plenty of "4WD" vehicles out there now that use open differentials and are essentially the same as AWD. Also, even if the vehicle does have open differentials, they all have traction control too which will apply the brakes on the spinning wheels to provide a similar benefit as a LSD (albeit with brake wear).
I mean, 4WD is clearly the better option for going off road, but there's a big difference between saying "4WD is better than AWD" and "4WD is the only option, AWD is trash". There are some pretty capable AWD vehicles out there.
The difference is that a true full time 4wd with an open centre has the ability to lock the centre differential. So the actual practical driving off road is quiet different.
Also your use case forgets low range gears. This is all well and good on flat ground but if you are driving steep terrain, far more dangerous and difficult without a decent low range gearbox.
@@HardstylePete That was not my point. My point was more that what a vehicle is capable of isn't a hard line in the sand separated only by whether or not it has 4WD. Even if you have 4WD there's places you can't go unless you also have lockers, ground clearance and the right tires too. Simply having 4WD instead of AWD isn't that big of a difference, if you took a Honda CRV and replaced the center diff with a transfer case it would still be a Honda CRV and wouldn't be very good off road. Likewise if you took a Jeep Wrangler and gave it a center diff instead of a transfer case it'd still be very capable.
Always see old gen Foresters leaving landcruisers and patrols in the dust at Wilbinga beach in WA.I own none but an observation only.
Having a flat bottom helps you skid across. You see that a lot even with IFS 4WDs no diffs to get caught up on but when clearance is an issue it’s the other way around. And then there is driver error let’s not forget about that one
@@Ronny_Dahl True,I an no expert but believe having correct tyres,pressure and choosing right lines from an experienced driver helps a lot too.I think you just opened a hornets nest Ronny looking at the comments:)
I snatched out a buried to the sills gq patrol on the beach last weekend. I was in a 2002 Outback. Lol
Samuel Green try that in a newer one with a CVT 🤣
@@Ronny_Dahl hmm.. I wouldn't put Dacia duster's photos as an example to not go off road with awd. plus Duster does have a choice between 2wd, awd and full time diff lock 50/50%, it doesn't have Low gear but 4wd is available only on manual and the first gear is so low that it does the 70% of the 4L job done. you start the car in 2nd gear in other situations. Subarus are also the ones to not be underestimated. But in general yes you are right, King of the part time or full time 4wd will defeat King of crossovers in extreme off road situations. But we dont know where future will take us, because the new Defender is none of the above, but I think it will have lots of electrical problems just like range rover
My 97 Forester has a low range transfer case and I know how far I can take it but the AWD is definitely safe. Thanks Professor Ron
Great job. Best explanation I've seen.
That was as clear as Andrew St. Pierre White explaining electricity. :-)
Bit harsh :)
Yep, ASP took down some of his idiot 12V videos.
@@aaaracing2285 Not really. Criticism is often due and welcomed by creators.
ASP is not knowledgeable about anything mechanical/electrical, so how do you expect him to explaining anything mechanical or electrical correctly or even well for that matter, he's a bloody danger to people if they do what he says at times. What he's good at is being behind a camera and he should damned well stay there!
@@gibsonethirty2836 I love ASP but that video about flipping the hood scoop around was one of the silliest auto theory things I have ever seen presented with massively overstated certainty.
I’m thinking about buying a Lada Niva. I think it has full time 4wd.
Karl Degraa had few of them atm I own a 96’ 1.7i version. I have to say, there is not too many cars or trucks out there which can beat a niva especially with some great tires. Look out for rust and maintain it regularly, you will be enjoying it. We have some off roaders in the family fleet (pajero, hilux, vitara). I’ve pulled them out from some sticky situations with the good old niva. After you learn to use the shifters correctly, you will be unstoppable.
I loved my Lada NIva great little 4wd.
Vécsei László yes I owned one too. It was a 1.6L version. To be honest I thought it was underpowered. I sold it in 1999.
love watching your tutorial videos!
This is why Mitsubishi's Super Select system is so special. You have 2WD for the bitumen and fuel saving, then you have 4H (Which is basically AWD since it does not engage the center difflock) and additionally you also have 4Hlc and 4Llc which is like the traditional 4WD you find in most other 4WDs with the center difflocked sending power to the front and rear diff. They first started using this system in 1991 and Ford only recently developed a similar system with the new V6 ranger.
There are AWD cars with centre differential lock.
He didn't say any different
@@tim5836 he said there is no such thing as that in awd systems or did I understand something wrong?
@@tobimanx7026 : His academic counterpart did show that AWD do have a central diff. I was paying more attention to the guy with the whiteboard cause he was making sense with diagrams.
“No AWD has low range” - tell that to my Subaru Forester!
And I know it’s not a 4WD. Even the Subaru engineers say it’s designed to go "anywhere there is a road underneath" (snow, mud etc).
That's not really true low gears though, my outback has the same transfer case. But it's more like half-gears than low gears.
@@johan.ohgren I fitted L series low gears to my 2003 outback gearbox, it has proper low range now :)
@@procrastinator1842 nice! How much work was that?
@@johan.ohgren A little bit, a bit of machining to one of the gears, and a modification to the L series shift fork and yeah, been running it for 5 years and its by far the best mod you can do. I also upgraded the centre diff from a 4kgf to a 12kgf, and added a rear lsd which was then also modified/upgraded from 4kgf to 12kgf. Besides that, 2" lift, AT tyres, shocks, HD clutch, snorkel, modified bumpers for clearance and a bash plate, short shifter, wrx seats and steering wheel, solar + deep cycle battery + fridge, android touch screen head unit + alpine amp + type r speakers. All it's missing is a few more horses under the hood :)
I have a part time 4WD Unimog from 1963 and it's glorious xD
I drove a base model Subaru G4 (AWD) in Jamaica for 2 years. I visited some people in the mountains on some pretty rough roads... miraculously I was able to handle all the terrible terrain, though I did have to get the rear suspension lifted and put the biggest tires I could fit on it to give me the most clearance possible.
True 4WD all the way.
Mitsubishi super select has every system usually with a rear diff lock.
mikehzz Have a Triton with super select and I use the AWD a lot for gravel roads and wet roads. It’s built to be a tourer so the rear diff lock doesn’t get that much use, but it certainly has saved my arse a few times along the way.
@@Alan.livingston I had a Mitsubishi pajero NM it had super select 4wd system and i had nothing but issue after issue i honestly can not count how many times it failed on me while off road. After 10 year's of owning it i had enough and bought a brand new Y61 GU patrol and stock it blew my old Pajero away. Mitsubishi knew of the faults with the super select 4wd system but never issued a recall on them.
@@adamjones2025 I've got an NX Pajero now and never had an issue with it. Maybe they improved it after almost 20 years? Anyway, my comment was just about the system being on the cars, not about how good it is. I've had a Patrol a while back but too bulky and used too much fuel for my liking. Good off road for sure.
@@adamjones2025 Surprised to hear that, I have a 2006 Shogun with the super select 4wd system and its been 100% bulletproof off road and towing
@@Slash1066 Mitsubishi said it was a known issue with the super select system but yet they would not repair it. But i bought a Patrol new and love it.
To be honest I’ve had both 4wd and AWD, but never been a rock crawler, desert and mountain hunting mostly. My current rig is a V6 AWD Ford Edge with engine mods, tow package , a lift, Firestone ATs , a winch and skid plates. No issues so far. Did it cause it was paid off and my wife said I could😊
You and "Engineering Explained" are probably the only automotive-related channels that have described torque distribution correctly with open and locked differential.
Your “Hero Wheel’ examples don’t add up to 100%, also would it still be split 50/50 (Front & Rear) or can you have 53% to one wheel....?
Correct fully locked each wheel can only get 25% of the power, that can never change unless you unlock one of the diffs.
The hero wheel example doesn't really work because ronny is not correctly explaining how diffs work, an open diff provides a 50/50 torque split and can do nothing else due to it's mechanical design. When you lift a wheel up into the air, it only takes a small torque to spin that wheel, so when you apply power from the engine that wheel spins up rapidly and the other end of the diff experiences the same torque. Add more power to the engine and the wheel spins up faster but no extra torque to the non spinning wheel.
Locking the diff doesn't give a 50/50 split of torque, it ensures that both ends spin at exactly the same speed, and will be given as much of the torque as it needs to spin at that speed. In this case the wheel in the air gets basically no torque and it all goes to the wheel on the ground.
see th-cam.com/video/ujsxq9WBllU/w-d-xo.html for a good explanation.
If diffs are unlocked they split torque and power but allow different rotations.
If locked they force different rotations but the torque can’t be equal on each axle that’s physically impossible
@@gabrielcooper7790 My interpretation was that he is talking about how much work they're doing, rather than power. The slipping wheels might each be getting 25% of the power, but they're only doing 14% of the work due to the lack of traction. Two other wheels might only be getting 25% of the power each, but they're doing 80% of the work because they actually have traction.
If 3 wheels are in the air on a fully locked vehicle the remaining wheel touching the ground will get 100% of the torque. If two wheels are touching the ground they will split 100% of the torque depending on their own particular traction situation. Same for 3 or 4. A locked vehicle will spin all 4 wheels at the same speed regardless of how much torque is going to each wheel.
*What do you get when you cross a Mustang and an elephant?*
A convertible with a big trunk.
Awesome explanation. Very simplified
1:02 Ah nice ! Ronny Dahl the scholar 🤓 that’s great