"Most of the time, what we call Love Triangles is actually a Love Corner. And most of the time, the woman is backed into it." Think this quote fits pretty well here :P
I feel like suggesting His and Hers Circumstances or whatever the fuck the english title is. The whole premise of the show is basically this and personally I watched it just for Hideaki Anno's creative direction but I think fans of the trope would love it.
To answer the question of why so many fantasy stories have a medieval European setting, I present you with the easiest answer: Even to this day J.R.R Tolkien has an incredible amount of influence on the fantasy genre.
Even easier answer: People are too lazy and don’t wanna do a lot of complicated research (aka me not wanting to make a fool of myself while also not wanting to undertake a whole Chinese history degree to pull of an original setting 🥲)
Not only Tolkien, but also Arthurian legend itself. Also... I kinda always just assumed it was somewhat because .. A.) a lot of people writing fantasy, in the English language especially, are by default generally more familiar with Western &/or European history than with any other history - & B.) having things set in a low-tech world increases the [theoretical ]'necessity' for magic use in that world, and also calls back to a period of time when more real-world people actually sincerely believed that magic and such were truly real, AND a style of living when people actually genuinely did things like fight each other and/or hunt and such that aren't as[ openly] prevalent for as many people nowadays. (And things like that.😅😅) Buuut, yeeaahhh, there is a lot more that could be done even with that setting alone than ever actually seems to get done with it..nevermind so much else or more that could be done in other settings too-this mold certainly does still need to flex and break a little bit more anyhow! ^--^
@@happyjellycatsquid It also genuinely didn't used to be that easy to actually research history or culture outside of your own for most people, without actually learning another language and/or traveling to a completely other country personally, as it is somewhat more easily becoming now.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 Yup ! I’m obsessed with the Arthurian legend, I have a whole 1000 page book on my TBR about it! It’s such a rich topic. I’ll never get tired of its retellings- THAT’s my favourite trope. And while I don’t see myself writing anything right now (no inspo too depresso ahah), I do find Nazi Germany to be extremely interesting, and there are still a LOT of sources, archives, journals and academic papers about it in mostly in German. Thankfully I’m learning it cause I plan to move there, but research is hard and I would definitely be WAY too scared about publishing a book based in another culture unless I had like a degree in its history or something. Not saying white people have it bad (cause they don’t ahah) but I’d be really scared of messing something up in earnest and being cancelled forever on claims of cultural appropriation of something. I wouldn’t wanna pull a Arthur Golden either (and he HAD the degree 💀) Writing about a different culture isn’t just hard, it’s scary 🥲
My absolutely favorite tropes (at least some that I can think of right now): * Redemption arc, * Found family, * Corruption of a hero, * Silent/grupy adult adopt a kid/becomes their mentor, * Rivals to lovers and enemies to lovers, * You have to fight someone you care about, * Funny character is actually hurting inside, * Villains who care about their minions/ have someone they deeply care about (they work together)
other tropes i love: -platonic soulmates (who needs lovers if i have you) -corrupted mentor (you don’t know they’re actuality evil and lying) -pressure of greatness (the weight, corruption of morals, destined to something you didn’t chose, isolation etc) -internal conflict (when you’re all on the same side but take each other down for some reason) -broken expectations (failure of the hero, betrayal, villain saves the day, you’re actually on the bad side I JUST LOVE IT)
@@mailia2874 star wars, arcane, avatar, lord of the rings/legendarium, a song of ice and fire, harry potter, bungou stray dogs, madoka magica, my hero academia, naruto, karate kid/cobra kai, daredevil, guardians of the galaxy, batman, the flash (there’s a lot of that on marvel and dc) i am OBSESSED
Leo: I love academic rivals to lovers Leo: it's even better when one secretly likes the other one Leo: and when someone else insults them they're like oh no you don't Me: *slams hands on table* HAVE YOU READ ANNE OF GREEN GABLES
I'm a sucker for revenge tropes, particularly the "He Who Fights Monsters" trope, where the protagonist's revenge path leads to inevitably becoming a monster. It's just *chef's kiss*
@@ManoverSuperman have the same feeling. The Count of Monte Cristo is my favourite book ever and I’m pretty positive no one can write a revenge trope like that
Breaking Bad and Attack on Titan also have really really well done hero corruption arcs! And the only villain redemption arc i can think of is Theon Greyjoy from A song of ice and fire/Game of Thrones (and technically Jaime Lannister, if you ignore season 8), i also wish more stories had this trope, it is one of my favourites as well!
I was literally searching the comment section for aot mentions and was so happy when I finally found your comment! Yesss hero corruption even if its a bit different in aot is still superior!
I _love_ the villain redemption arc but also, Zuko has set such a high standard for me that whenever I hear that a certain character gets redeemed, I'm immediately skeptical. Because redemption arcs are tricky to pull off and I've never seen anyone do it as well as the creators of Avatar did. I watched She-Ra and I had already gotten spoilers of Catra's redemption and I was kinda anxious. As expected, it wasn't great. I think that a lot of people don't give a bad character enough time to realize their mistakes, feel guilty, face consequences for their actions, and _earn_ the trust of people. The thing that bugs me is usually that the villain does something nice and is like "I was wrong but I'm on your side now!" and the heroes are just like, okay with it? They're immediately best friends with the villain and all is well. Also, I think the makeover trope can be done well if it isn't to increase a person's worth. Basically, an example I can think of is when someone needs to go undercover and they _need_ to look good in order to obtain information or track down a person, or whatever. I think makeover tropes are really good in those situations.
I've always questioned myslef if i really like the redemption arc because Zuko is literally the only character i can think of with a good redemption arc. I think what you mentioned is part of the reason why. That and the fact that i genuinely believe that some characters are wrongly redeemed. It might be unpopular, but to me there is a certain line that if a character crosses, is deemed irredeemable to me. But its like people just dont have any standards and can easily forgive anything a character does as long as he’s sad boi with dark past. My disappointment with this trope is lowkey what pushed me into the opposite, which is the fallen hero trope and I would love to see more of those.
@@TheCloudRazorable Agreed! I really don't understand how people think characters who are murderers, or war criminals, or such can be redeemed. In my opinion, the most you could do is let them have a sacrificial death, letting them do one good thing before they die. A lot of people deserve a second chance, but there are some acts that are straight up crimes. Redemption arcs are very tricky to pull off anyway, and it's sad that a lot of creators redeem a character just because fans love that character.
@@skyhideaway exactly! I hate when ppl say everyone deserves a second chance. like do you know the type of people “everyone” includes?😭 Zuko is just the perfect character. I always look to him for what a redemption should look like. And his arc is so well done that he almost makes it look easy to recreate. But clearly it’s not if we don’t have that many good examples which makes me wonder, how did they do it so well with zuko??
Ok But Friends to enemies/strangers to lovers is an underrated trope that should happen more often, particularly more so when it’s enemies but I get that’s more reserved for the fantasy genre. and when it’s old friends that drifted apart and meet again and fall in love I can’t help but eat it up
For me, Kaz Brekker belongs to the trope 'main character is an evil mastermind (but he is not really evil)'. I love it every time. It all started for me from the Artemis Fowl series, and I've never seen it done better than by Eoin Colfer. It's fun to watch as a hero tries to execute his genius plan, but then something goes terribly wrong, and hero finds himself in a tight, possibly deadly situation.
@@chesscake7362Honestly same Like I feel like most ya books have some sort of underlying moral message in them but six of crows is just a bunch of gays committing crimes for money like. The only thing I learnt is that is plan a,b and c fail, SMASH A TANK THROUGH THE GODDAMN WALL
having read both series I definitely agree. its even better when from everyone else's pov they're like ruthless, cold,calculative and mean, but from their own they're just a big softie and or desarately trying to hide the fact that they are good and caring
i LOVED the amount of times you referenced Arcane. That show is a MASTERPIECE and Jinx is the most fascinating character, even through the horrible things she kept doing i couldn't help but think about all the trauma in her life and how deep down she just wants to be loved and have her sister/friends back :'(
Two of my most hated tropes in stories that haven't been on the list are "conflict through miscommunication" and "not believeing someone without a reason". I have the suspicion these tropes are often used for lack of a real plot.
The black mage series has this, plus magical school setting. It isn't mind blowing but it was pretty good I think? Keep in mind I read it 5 years ago though
I just recently found this channel and it's been a delight, this video just cemented it. I also greatly enjoy the fact that "Leo" in spanish means "I read", so that's fun
Hero corruption arch: Anakin skywalk in Star Wars It’s so good, you understand his behaviour and why he does everything. It’s so heartbreaking. And later you have the little villain redemption arch in the other Star Wars Movies with Darth Vader.
Fated mates (or soulmates, i think you mean the same trope?) are all about the certainty that somewhere there is someone who has been made to love you. I found that really comforting.
I love the "grumpy loner learns to fit in with people (again)" trope. Sam Vimes from the Disc World novels, Death from the same novels, Ebenezer Scrooge...
My favorites Friends to Enemies is probably in the show, Smallville. We all know Lex Luthor & Clark Kent end up as enemies but having them start as friends was such a great move in that show!
The girls who get it get it: Star-crossed Lovers. Like when these two people meet (love at first sight is optional), but like they can't be together, so then they have this giant montage of them sneaking around and being cute, while the tension builds up with the rivalry families/clans/etc. and there's this big reveal. All the drama comes falling down and all the tension and buildup comes rushing at you and you just can't stop reading/watching. It's SOOOO GOOOOD!!!! It could be like contemporary with ex like The Kissing Booth (which was pretty meh in my opinion), but like it's wayyyy better in like fantasy or a more dramatic/serious-ish setting
You are literally so correct about this. Though I guess percabeth is kind of rivals/strangers>friends>lovers. Friends to lovers can be so good but I do think it's even better with strangers to lovers with the friends in the middle
I feel like the makeover trope could best be used by an MC that has been struggling with self-confidence, mental health issues, or is pretty average, but after some sort of internal conflict or realization they start to put a bit more effort to take care of themselves. Rather than be a makeover trope, it becomes an important moment of self care the MC may need
Fantastic, but I do think Jekyll and Hyde is better. Of course that is crossover with the 'fight the Monster' trope, only the monster is his own corruption . . . just such DEPTH. But I absolutely adore Oscar Wilde, so . . . 🙂
a better version of “fated mates” is the “soulmate” trope which is way cuter and hopeful. they usually are about something happening to you and your soulmate when you meet for the first time or having matching something (like tattoos) and i find them to be very cute, wholesome and funny most of the times :]
I recently discovered that "right person, wrong time/not enough time" is one of my favorite tropes 😍 Also, I am a basic beech and I looove medieval europe fantasy settings 🙉🙊
As a demiromantic/demisexual person, every time someone says that from a friendship there can't be anything romantic not only I suffer and die, but I question the sanity of allo people XD
I don't know where or if I fall an the aromantic spectrum yet (I've thought about it) but if I were ever to date someone I'd want to know them for a little bit (like at least a few months) first. I find this whole "people can't know eachother platonically first they must start out as strangers" mentality extremely weird and I absolutely hate it :/
@@bowgart6719 I think most people are referring to friends who have known/grown up with each other when talking about that trope. The relationship can give off a sibling vibe which can be off putting
@@bowgart6719 Couldn't agree more! My last dating experience was SO awkward because we didn't get the chance to know each other as friends; he just asked me out and I said yes because I DID want to get to know him. But then it didn't go anywhere and now we're not even friends since we broke up. So now I'm a LOT more determined to get to know people as friends before I decide to date them; that way, I'll already know if they will never be more than friends and can keep it that way! 🙂
A lot of people don't know the difference between tropes and cliches. They think "tropes" are always automatically 'unoriginal' &/or 'bad' writing. But it takes as much skill to write a trope well, especially in a way that readers who are specifically wanting to see characters or storylines utilizing that trope will enjoy, as it takes to write anything else. And just because you use a particular trope, doesn't mean you're necessarily using it in the exact same story or with the exact same characters[ or etc.] as other people do. (Besides which, having bad writing isn't actually the same thing as having unoriginal stories or characters. Story and character and such are actually a totally separate element from the literal writing itself! [ _Technically_ speaking.😁😁😁] 😅🤣🤣) Lol 😆 ^-^
Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has a great villain redemption arc, it’s one of my favorite character arcs in TV! Also, to me academic rivals to lovers is the top-tier show-stopping bangeranger of tropes. My fave is Anne and Gilbert in both the Anne of Green Gables books and the Anne with an E TV show.
My favorite is friends to lovers because I like the idea of them having troubles with finding out their feelings are romantic + I like them trying to get into an actual relationship. Like the person usually has to debate if they want to have a chance at ruining the friendship or just silently suffer with their feelings. Also I'm dating someone who was my best friend so Im a sucker for it
My favorite twist on the love-triangle trope is unexpected polyamory ("why have to choose if all three/four of us can be together") with the background cast having "wait, WHAT?!" reaction.
The only instance of this I know of is in the Netflix show Sense8. The novel The Fifth Season also had a poly relationship that started out a bit like a love triangle.
@@charoraimondogarcia webtoon series Boyfriends has poly relationship between 4 college students. If you don't mind smutty romance, "Collared by Love" by Della Cain is a great pick! Also, if you want some light fantasy with angst - The Wicker King by K.Ancrum.
13:55 I like when the friends to lovers trope happens when the friends grew up together but at some point maybe in teenage years where they realise they're attracted to each other and start pulling away from each other to not give away their feeling, until something big happens and they're like "well now we have to kiss"
Personally I LOVE medieval Europe setting. It is because I live in middle europe and there are so many medieval castles. It's just close to me and I like it, but the story has to be good. Book settings are like what you paint on.Even a drawing on the sidewalk can be masterpeace..
Not Here To Be Liked is an amazing academic rivals to lovers with underdog characters! If you want to pick up any contemporary romances this year I think you'd really like this one
Fated mates can be fun when it's in a context without powerplay. You just have two characters who are incredibly drawn to each other, but they're both fighting it bc they don't /know/ each other. But then they have to spend time together and they slowly do get to know each other, while still trying to resist. And when one or both of them has deluded themselves into thinking it's all one-sided, but then there's a big confession moment where they finally realize that no, actually, we are totally crazy for each other and we can give in 👌 good soup
The first couple that came to mind in the friends to lovers trope is Chandler and Monica from Friends and they are my favorite so that mean I must love this trope
What about the Ron and Hermione friends to lovers tho. I know, basic HP example but I think they move into them being the loves of their lifes quite naturally :)
I really *love* the soulmates trope, but for me, I like it when it's either just reading fanfic for fluff, or if it's not revealed they're soulmates until they already have a certain level of familiarity with each other,, like, they already need to have a certain bond and have sacrificed for each other and then it's realised,, or if there is a sign that they're soulmates, but it's not obvious and they only realise later, or they dont know who it is, but have a connection physically/mentally,,, or sometimes if it's less soulmates and more "there's certain people who are more compatible than others",,, but yeah, soulmates is my jam, but I like it when there's a gimmick,, like, for example,, I actually have a book I'll maybe write one day that has soulmates where all the characters have a power, and their soulmates power will be related in some way, could be complimentary or opposing, and when they bond it essentially increases each of their powers,, but the thing is, they don't figure out they're soulmates until there becomes a certain level of trust or act of sacrifice, or emotional bond, and the powers aren't obvious enough to say "oh, yeah, these two are soulmates, and these 5 are soulmates, and these 3 are clearly soulmates",,, so, like, it's a thing, but it's not clear who's soulmates with who,, and also, soulmates aren't necessarily romantic, they can also be platonic,,,,,,,,, but yeah,, here's my pitch for why soulmates is a great trope when done in creative ways
the way you described 'academic rivals to lovers' is literally anne shirley-cuthbert and gilbert blythe, especially how they're portrayed in anne with an e
Villain redemption arc I love: Elantris by Brandon Sanderson. Hadestown Broadway musical has a breathtaking hero corruption arc into a tragedy that is somehow cathartic.
Villains redemption arcs need to be more common, i love to see the journey of an antagonist finding their way to "goodness" or just plain old self forgiveness, also I need more recommendations of this trope and academic rivals to lovers cause I agree, it's so top tier. PS: you are playing genshin impact?? omg, i'm also super invested in kaeya's and diluc's story, hope we can learn more about it in the future :(
3:25 - Why so much fantasy medieval Europe? Well, the modern fantasy genre started with writers of European heritage looking to THEIR myths and epics for inspiration (eg. Tolkien). A lot of these early examples were really good - seriously, read Lord of the Rings even if you think you are tired of this! - and then EVERYONE copied them. However, since fantasy as a genre is now known and loved around the world, and people are getting bored with this, you're more likely to find a story that is good and creative overall if you pick something that has other cultural influences.
I agree, but also I don't. I think a lot of people use the term "medieval Europe", but what they actually mean is northwestern Europe with more of a Renaissance vibe. Europe has always had a lot more variety than that! England is not a good benchmark for all European countries, especially those to the east and south.
season 6 of buffy the vampire slayer has two characters that go down the hero corruption arc, and even though the characters end up coming back more heroic than ever in season 7, their journeys into the darker side of their powers in season 6 is *chef's kiss*
@@Zivilin I loved her redemption arc, and also Spike's. Cordy's was the best of all for me. I honestly did not like the corruption arcs in Buffy though; Willow's in particular seemed forced and unrealistic. I can't imagine such a caring individual being corrupted by lust for power, but I would have loved it if it had been about her finally getting fed up and taking revenge on everybody else for just taking her for granted and using her all those years.
I totally agree on your thoughts on love triangles. If they are there just for the sake to complicate things a bit, then it is usually really bad, but if it actually have a bigger purpose then it can be amazing. I loved Silvia Moreno-Garcia's The Beautiful Ones because it actually delved deep into the complications and hurt feelings a love triangle will make.
Tbh one of my favorite times a trope happened is in ToH, with Luz and Amity, bc it’s well written + it’s almost exactly how you described it in the video lmao
When you mentioned "Tragic Hero" or as you said "Hero going down the path of darkness" I immediately thought of Anakin Skywalker, arguably the best example of this trope. Of course there are other famous ones like Macbeth, Frankenstein, Dorian Grey or Oedipus.
GIRL!! LITERALLY SAME!!! I am pretty sure that word count wise I have read more words then I have done in quite a long time but my Goodreads will never see the light of those... Ooh well
The Kinder Poison series does a really good job of showing how a relationship changes as the villain tries to become better for the hero while the hero becomes worse just to oppose the villain. There are a lot of places where you're unsure if the hero and the villain are enemies, friends, or even lovers.
One reason why most stories are set in Europe and not in an asian dynasty is because the culture behind them is so vast that if any author who is not well educated on them attempted to write a story set there, it would look unrealistic and it would be cultural appropriation.
In my (potentially controversial) opinion, the love triangle in The Hunger Games was way worse than the one in Twilight. I still love The Hunger Games more though :)
But I think it also represented two paths that Katniss could have taken. I think what made the love triangle horrible were the fans who went all "team x". It made the story out the be about what boy to choose when that wasn't the theme of the books at all.
It was alright in the books but terribly executed in the movies. Twilight on the other hand was bad in books and movies... I mean, girlboss had to choose between a manipulative stalker and a manipulative s*xual assaulter. Not exactly top tier 😂
Scorpia from She-ra also had a villain redemption arc. Like that did happen. And you can argue Entrapta did too. Granted they were never the main villains, and more the side-kicks to the main villains but they still did a lot of wrongs.
you described the PERFECT type of academic rivals to lovers that I cherish with my whole heart, just *chefs kiss* PLEASEE IF ANYONE HAS RECOMMENDATIONS !! GIMME PLSSSS also yes grumpy-sunshine but the grump is the girl trope, I have been LOOKINGGG FOR THOSE
Another villain redemption arc is Sasuke from Naruto!! It's a long anime but so worth it (skip the fillers). And for the bubbly boy and grumpy girl trope I thought of Fan Girl by Rainbow Rowell!
My favorite trope of all time is Enemies to Lovers. But like, well done. Like they need to actually dislike each other, not like how I unfortunately see in many fics where the whole time they secretly like the other and only fake dislike. Like actual enemies. On opposite sides of some topic and they hate each other. But they are forced to interact. And slowly, SLOWLY AND REALISTICALLY, get to know each other; their past struggles, interests, and more. They slowly develop a care for each other even as they try to deny it and fight against it, determined to stick to what they knew. But they eventually are forced to face the reality of their new feelings. I prefer them being friends first before the attraction is fully realized. I love it if they are forced to face off against each other, commanded to fight or kill each other, but they don't. Or they save each other. Mmm. I am writing a book rn and I am writing an enemies to lovers plot thread in it; it's not a romance book, it's an action adventure sci-fi fantasy, but there is a romance plot thread in it.
one of the best rivals-to-lovers tropes i've seen lately is in the Hulu series The Great!!! it's SOOOO good! a royal couple who are constantly trying to murder one another but fall in love?? i eat it up
I agree with all yours I have more favorites : The chosen one ( Paul in Dune, Harry Potter) still love it when it's done well The secret heir with the revenge trope ( hidden truth) Redemption of the villain trope ( sasuke) The relectant hero ( The Mirror Visitor by Christelle Davos) The Quest Deconstruct flaws ( percy Jackson) Use readers expectation against them ( the witcher) Defy the norm with dark choices ( First law by Bayaz)
Such a fun video to watch and made me think about what my favorite tropes actually are. I agreed with most of your choices, though I would put the found family trope in the "top tier elite girls that get it get it" rank. I can never get enough of that one ☺
I think Wheel of Time is a good reluctant hero example. His reluctance is based on the fact that if he embraces the hero role, and fully explores and masters “magic” then he’s destined to go crazy and turn into a villain.
This was such a great video! I loved that you mentioned reading fanfiction because it can sometimes feel like that‘s not viewed as „real“ or legitimate reading. I‘ll spend the rest of my day thinking about my favorite tropes 🙌🏻
I'm a loser who plays League. and in original League Lore Viktor and Jayce are amazing academic rivals to lovers bait, man. In some Arcane/League fanfic you can still find the troupe being played out and I love it lmao. (They actually fit quite a few good troupes here. but I don't know where Arcane will take their characters and don't wanna accidentally spoiler anything for anyone who knows nothing about League.)
The academic rivals to lovers trope reminded me so much of my favorite anime Special A. I loved it so much when I was little and I was head over heels on Kei Takishima for a very long time
I'm a simple girl. I see Captain Swan, I click. Also, I love how you were struggling to name more villains with redemption arcs when Killian Jones was right there 🤣
Woah, late night upload for the Netherlands. Very fun subject and fun video though. (: As soon as I saw the reaction and opinion of heists, I was like "yes, this is why I subscribe to Leonie". I am in the right place.
Someone probably just wrote this but I need to put Regina Mills on your villain redemption trope. So, she‘s in my opinion the actual hero of Once Upon A Time and a very good example for this trope and how much it works in general. You are totally right, one of the best tropes EVER! Another example would be Darth Vader, by the way. And Kylo Ren.
I think soulmates trope -which i think you included when talking about fated mates - is ELITE if it has no sexual influence. Like it's literally about souls and compatibility and finding your other half but it shouldn't guarantee a successful relationship or the best sex of your life that pulls out your "animal instincts". I love the idea of having someone who is meant to be with you or is your true love in the OUAT sense. The Sarah J. Maas style of mates is NOT it but the soulmate trope is elite for me.
I was so hesitant to use tropes in my writing because I really didn't want to be a colleen hoover 2.0 but after some close consideration I think we're good.
for the diluc and kaeya thing, you find out what happens in the visual novel. It's a very love-hate relationship (mainly leaning on hate) and you can see glimpses of care by diluc since he kept that one very colourful vase kaeya gave to him in the dawn winery.
As someone who almost always hates amnesia in stories, I’d like to speak in defence of it. The problem is usually one of two things. The first is common in mainstream stuff, and that’s when it’s used as a plot device and nothing else. Like what you said: extra screen time, or else an expository shortcut. It’s lazy. The second is the issue I see in fanfic: TDDC (too dark don’t care). Amnesia fics have a tendency to be pure, dragging angst with nothing to invest you, or at the very least, not enough relief to make it worthwhile. It’s too heavy and too hopeless to wrap your head around. It makes you feel bad, without making it matter. But that’s more because of how it’s being utilized. It’s underused by good writers because it’s been oversaturated by lazy or beginner content. THAT BEING SAID, when it IS DONE RIGHT, it is one of the most POWERFUL TROPES IVE EVER SEEN. The story that got me to start writing again after over a year, and which I still hail as the best writing I’ve read, period? Used that trope. Not in a typical sense, but it did it nonetheless. It’s called Passerine. An excerpt from it: “Tubbo could almost see himself shaking the prince awake. And the prince would blink drowsiness from his eyes, ask Tubbo who he was, and Tubbo would say, “A friend,” and maybe in another life that wouldn’t be a lie. Tubbo’s cheeks felt warm. He knew he must be crying. He knew he must be sad. But for whom? Who was he even mourning? His kingdom’s prince, yes, but the harsher truth, a stranger. A stranger whose laughter still faintly echoed in Tubbo’s head like a half-remembered song from a distant childhood. … A stranger that felt like no stranger at all. But a stranger nonetheless, Tubbo reminded himself.” Another brilliant example is the movie Next Gen on Netflix. The whole thing is centred around how memories make us who we are, and forces an impossible choice between those memories and the person who helped make them. I’m currently writing a fic where I’m trying to help undo the mishandling of this trope. The character getting amnesia is the inciting incident, and it’s caused by a forced reset (they’re robots) by the abuser he escaped in the source media’s canon. The plot is centred around surrounding characters trying to get him back out of this abusive situation. The main character- who he was very close with, and who helped him the first time- is someone he’s supposed to kill, and the other character who’s helping has to pretend not to care about him or she’ll get them both killed, but is stuck watching everything that happens. I work really hard to have genuinely happy moments and the comfort to balance out the hurt. Even when the overall situation is grim, I have moments of relief and a more bittersweet tone to interactions overall. And there’s always forward progress so it doesn’t feel completely hopeless for any length of time. (If anyone watches Murder Drones, the fic is called “My Mind is Volatile at Best”. Ao3 isn’t showing when I update, sooo yeah, it’d be nice to have readers again lol) Anyways. It can be done well, and I think it’s mostly used in a cheap way because it’s very easy to make overwhelming, and therefore it’s risky as a serious plot element. It has the potential to hit harder than major character death. Essentially, a character has died, but their loved ones are being taunted by it, constantly reminded, and frustrated by this futile hope that leads nowhere, especially if they can’t get their memories back. I wrote another freaking essay in the comment section of a freaking TH-cam video gosh darnit-
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The love triangle trope frustrates me because it's never an actual triangle, it's just a V 😭
exactly! love triangles should have at least 1 potential queer relationship! otherwise, what you have is a love ANGLE! Nothing tri about that!
"Most of the time, what we call Love Triangles is actually a Love Corner. And most of the time, the woman is backed into it."
Think this quote fits pretty well here :P
You should read the Dark Artifices by Cassandra Clare… the love triangle between Kieran, Christina and Mark is so far the only one I’ve ever enjoyed.
Iron Widow has a true triangle by xiran Jay zhao
THAT OMG
I married my academic rival. That's how much I love this trope!!!
awww wait i live that, i hope u and ur partner are happy together!
@@karann490 thank you! 17 years together very happy!
@@bibiguluspanova3229 that’s so cute😭😭 I hope you two are doing good!❤️
@@ventikichi7186 thank you! very! we still love to banter though
I respect the level of your devotion to the trope👌🏼
Academic rivals to lovers = Anne of Green Gables basically 😁
I just commented the same thing! Love it :)
ahhhh i love, shirbert supremecy
that's exactly what I thought of too haha love them
Yes. Just yes
I feel like suggesting His and Hers Circumstances or whatever the fuck the english title is. The whole premise of the show is basically this and personally I watched it just for Hideaki Anno's creative direction but I think fans of the trope would love it.
To answer the question of why so many fantasy stories have a medieval European setting, I present you with the easiest answer: Even to this day J.R.R Tolkien has an incredible amount of influence on the fantasy genre.
very good point
Even easier answer: People are too lazy and don’t wanna do a lot of complicated research (aka me not wanting to make a fool of myself while also not wanting to undertake a whole Chinese history degree to pull of an original setting 🥲)
Not only Tolkien, but also Arthurian legend itself.
Also... I kinda always just assumed it was somewhat because .. A.) a lot of people writing fantasy, in the English language especially, are by default generally more familiar with Western &/or European history than with any other history - & B.) having things set in a low-tech world increases the [theoretical ]'necessity' for magic use in that world, and also calls back to a period of time when more real-world people actually sincerely believed that magic and such were truly real, AND a style of living when people actually genuinely did things like fight each other and/or hunt and such that aren't as[ openly] prevalent for as many people nowadays. (And things like that.😅😅) Buuut, yeeaahhh, there is a lot more that could be done even with that setting alone than ever actually seems to get done with it..nevermind so much else or more that could be done in other settings too-this mold certainly does still need to flex and break a little bit more anyhow! ^--^
@@happyjellycatsquid It also genuinely didn't used to be that easy to actually research history or culture outside of your own for most people, without actually learning another language and/or traveling to a completely other country personally, as it is somewhat more easily becoming now.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 Yup ! I’m obsessed with the Arthurian legend, I have a whole 1000 page book on my TBR about it! It’s such a rich topic. I’ll never get tired of its retellings- THAT’s my favourite trope. And while I don’t see myself writing anything right now (no inspo too depresso ahah), I do find Nazi Germany to be extremely interesting, and there are still a LOT of sources, archives, journals and academic papers about it in mostly in German. Thankfully I’m learning it cause I plan to move there, but research is hard and I would definitely be WAY too scared about publishing a book based in another culture unless I had like a degree in its history or something. Not saying white people have it bad (cause they don’t ahah) but I’d be really scared of messing something up in earnest and being cancelled forever on claims of cultural appropriation of something. I wouldn’t wanna pull a Arthur Golden either (and he HAD the degree 💀) Writing about a different culture isn’t just hard, it’s scary 🥲
i'm a simple girl, I see Zuko, I click
oh my goodness same 😭😭😭 I can't
100% Best character ark of all time.
Literally why I clicked
I see Zuko at the top of a tier list, I click
Somebody be calling me out here😂😂😂
This tierlist made me realize that I need to read more books.
Same
Same 😂
Yeah
My absolutely favorite tropes (at least some that I can think of right now):
* Redemption arc,
* Found family,
* Corruption of a hero,
* Silent/grupy adult adopt a kid/becomes their mentor,
* Rivals to lovers and enemies to lovers,
* You have to fight someone you care about,
* Funny character is actually hurting inside,
* Villains who care about their minions/ have someone they deeply care about (they work together)
The Naruto anime fulfills all this 😂
Damn you're right 😆😆😆 but what about the 4th one? I don't think neither Kakashi nor Jiraya fit for me 🤔
Can you suggest me fics from that trope?
Up. Russell and Mr. Fredrickson
we are the same lol
other tropes i love:
-platonic soulmates (who needs lovers if i have you)
-corrupted mentor (you don’t know they’re actuality evil and lying)
-pressure of greatness (the weight, corruption of morals, destined to something you didn’t chose, isolation etc)
-internal conflict (when you’re all on the same side but take each other down for some reason)
-broken expectations (failure of the hero, betrayal, villain saves the day, you’re actually on the bad side I JUST LOVE IT)
WOAHHH CORRUPTED MENTOR? RECS PLEASE?
@@mailia2874 Hama from Avatar is what immediately springs to my mind.
i hate that anakin from star wars fits every one of these 😭
@@mailia2874 star wars, arcane, avatar, lord of the rings/legendarium, a song of ice and fire, harry potter, bungou stray dogs, madoka magica, my hero academia, naruto, karate kid/cobra kai, daredevil, guardians of the galaxy, batman, the flash (there’s a lot of that on marvel and dc) i am OBSESSED
@@johnclifford4185 YEEEEEES
Leo: I love academic rivals to lovers
Leo: it's even better when one secretly likes the other one
Leo: and when someone else insults them they're like oh no you don't
Me: *slams hands on table* HAVE YOU READ ANNE OF GREEN GABLES
"I haven't read any books so far, but I've been reading a lot of fanfic." I felt that cos it's my truth as well this January, lol.
Dorian Gray could be counted as a hero going down the corruption path.
yes loved it!
We are catching up on our comments and videos tonight 👌🏽🕷
Maybe is one of the greatest on that, although there is a lot of great stories about human decadence
not a book, but for anime lovers. Another example is definitely Eren Yeager
Death Note, too!
For anyone who loves friends/family to enemies; watch the Prince of Egypt! Top tier use of this trope
fr!
thought this was going to be friends/family to lovers and got really scared
@@geirge1663same 😭
I'm a sucker for revenge tropes, particularly the "He Who Fights Monsters" trope, where the protagonist's revenge path leads to inevitably becoming a monster. It's just *chef's kiss*
After The Count of Monte Cristo, I think every revenge plot can only be a pale imitation.
Of you like this Trope then you should check out Attack on Titan
@@ManoverSuperman have the same feeling. The Count of Monte Cristo is my favourite book ever and I’m pretty positive no one can write a revenge trope like that
attack on titan in a nutshell
Oh yeah, anime really seems to be the medium that hits this trope well most often; Attack on Titan is one that's on my watchlist!
The fact you used Captain Swan for enemies to lovers is just chef's kiss 🙌🏻
Breaking Bad and Attack on Titan also have really really well done hero corruption arcs!
And the only villain redemption arc i can think of is Theon Greyjoy from A song of ice and fire/Game of Thrones (and technically Jaime Lannister, if you ignore season 8), i also wish more stories had this trope, it is one of my favourites as well!
Hero corruption with Aot is eh Eren wasn't really pure evil like Walter
I was literally searching the comment section for aot mentions and was so happy when I finally found your comment! Yesss hero corruption even if its a bit different in aot is still superior!
@@attilamert6973 it isn't really corruption eren was always like he his now
@@noriantiri9310 Same with Walter
Breaking Bad??? BREAKING BAD?!?!?!?!
I _love_ the villain redemption arc but also, Zuko has set such a high standard for me that whenever I hear that a certain character gets redeemed, I'm immediately skeptical. Because redemption arcs are tricky to pull off and I've never seen anyone do it as well as the creators of Avatar did. I watched She-Ra and I had already gotten spoilers of Catra's redemption and I was kinda anxious. As expected, it wasn't great. I think that a lot of people don't give a bad character enough time to realize their mistakes, feel guilty, face consequences for their actions, and _earn_ the trust of people. The thing that bugs me is usually that the villain does something nice and is like "I was wrong but I'm on your side now!" and the heroes are just like, okay with it? They're immediately best friends with the villain and all is well.
Also, I think the makeover trope can be done well if it isn't to increase a person's worth. Basically, an example I can think of is when someone needs to go undercover and they _need_ to look good in order to obtain information or track down a person, or whatever. I think makeover tropes are really good in those situations.
Faith from Buffy the vampire slayer/Angel tv series has one of the best villain redemption arc I've seen in media. Both her and Zuko are top tier.
@@Zivilin is it a good series?
I've always questioned myslef if i really like the redemption arc because Zuko is literally the only character i can think of with a good redemption arc. I think what you mentioned is part of the reason why. That and the fact that i genuinely believe that some characters are wrongly redeemed. It might be unpopular, but to me there is a certain line that if a character crosses, is deemed irredeemable to me. But its like people just dont have any standards and can easily forgive anything a character does as long as he’s sad boi with dark past.
My disappointment with this trope is lowkey what pushed me into the opposite, which is the fallen hero trope and I would love to see more of those.
@@TheCloudRazorable Agreed! I really don't understand how people think characters who are murderers, or war criminals, or such can be redeemed. In my opinion, the most you could do is let them have a sacrificial death, letting them do one good thing before they die. A lot of people deserve a second chance, but there are some acts that are straight up crimes. Redemption arcs are very tricky to pull off anyway, and it's sad that a lot of creators redeem a character just because fans love that character.
@@skyhideaway exactly! I hate when ppl say everyone deserves a second chance. like do you know the type of people “everyone” includes?😭
Zuko is just the perfect character. I always look to him for what a redemption should look like. And his arc is so well done that he almost makes it look easy to recreate. But clearly it’s not if we don’t have that many good examples which makes me wonder, how did they do it so well with zuko??
Ok But Friends to enemies/strangers to lovers is an underrated trope that should happen more often, particularly more so when it’s enemies but I get that’s more reserved for the fantasy genre. and when it’s old friends that drifted apart and meet again and fall in love I can’t help but eat it up
For me, Kaz Brekker belongs to the trope 'main character is an evil mastermind (but he is not really evil)'. I love it every time. It all started for me from the Artemis Fowl series, and I've never seen it done better than by Eoin Colfer. It's fun to watch as a hero tries to execute his genius plan, but then something goes terribly wrong, and hero finds himself in a tight, possibly deadly situation.
Kaz Brekker can hire me and I’d say yes
@@chesscake7362Honestly same
Like I feel like most ya books have some sort of underlying moral message in them but six of crows is just a bunch of gays committing crimes for money like. The only thing I learnt is that is plan a,b and c fail, SMASH A TANK THROUGH THE GODDAMN WALL
having read both series I definitely agree. its even better when from everyone else's pov they're like ruthless, cold,calculative and mean, but from their own they're just a big softie and or desarately trying to hide the fact that they are good and caring
i LOVED the amount of times you referenced Arcane. That show is a MASTERPIECE and Jinx is the most fascinating character, even through the horrible things she kept doing i couldn't help but think about all the trauma in her life and how deep down she just wants to be loved and have her sister/friends back :'(
Two of my most hated tropes in stories that haven't been on the list are "conflict through miscommunication" and "not believeing someone without a reason". I have the suspicion these tropes are often used for lack of a real plot.
I NEED a fantasy academic rivals to lovers recommendation cuz I'm in love with it
YESS
Atlas six by olivie blake might count as one?
Yes please someone
The black mage series has this, plus magical school setting. It isn't mind blowing but it was pretty good I think? Keep in mind I read it 5 years ago though
Emily Wilde’s Encyclopedia of Faeries?
I get it girl.. villain redemption arc, I GET IT 😭😭😭
I just recently found this channel and it's been a delight, this video just cemented it. I also greatly enjoy the fact that "Leo" in spanish means "I read", so that's fun
Hero corruption arch: Anakin skywalk in Star Wars
It’s so good, you understand his behaviour and why he does everything. It’s so heartbreaking.
And later you have the little villain redemption arch in the other Star Wars Movies with Darth Vader.
Fated mates (or soulmates, i think you mean the same trope?) are all about the certainty that somewhere there is someone who has been made to love you. I found that really comforting.
Same! I was so confused when she was describing it like “are we even thinking of the same trope??”
I kind of find it scary
@@KateeAngel why, if I can ask?
I usually dislike this trope, but I like this spin on it
I love the "grumpy loner learns to fit in with people (again)" trope. Sam Vimes from the Disc World novels, Death from the same novels, Ebenezer Scrooge...
Okay, the fact that you put academic-rivals-to-lovers so high? You NEED to read Today Tonight Tomorrow, it's incredibly well-done and I loved it.
Or Carry On by Rainbow Rowell!
My favorites Friends to Enemies is probably in the show, Smallville. We all know Lex Luthor & Clark Kent end up as enemies but having them start as friends was such a great move in that show!
That still haunts me. Every episode I was like Damnit Clark! Tell Lex everything and stop hiding and shutting him out! He will be by your side!
and the x men 😭😭😭😭
The girls who get it get it: Star-crossed Lovers.
Like when these two people meet (love at first sight is optional), but like they can't be together, so then they have this giant montage of them sneaking around and being cute, while the tension builds up with the rivalry families/clans/etc. and there's this big reveal. All the drama comes falling down and all the tension and buildup comes rushing at you and you just can't stop reading/watching. It's SOOOO GOOOOD!!!!
It could be like contemporary with ex like The Kissing Booth (which was pretty meh in my opinion), but like it's wayyyy better in like fantasy or a more dramatic/serious-ish setting
if you like this i HIGHLY recommend these violet delights by chloe gong
@@mailia2874 Thx, I'll check iy out
14:00 percabeth is the Best friends to lovers couple ever. They are the reason i like this trope
You are literally so correct about this. Though I guess percabeth is kind of rivals/strangers>friends>lovers. Friends to lovers can be so good but I do think it's even better with strangers to lovers with the friends in the middle
I feel like the makeover trope could best be used by an MC that has been struggling with self-confidence, mental health issues, or is pretty average, but after some sort of internal conflict or realization they start to put a bit more effort to take care of themselves. Rather than be a makeover trope, it becomes an important moment of self care the MC may need
Corruption arc book that you’ve probably read but will mention anyway because it is the best: the picture of Dorian gray
Fantastic, but I do think Jekyll and Hyde is better. Of course that is crossover with the 'fight the Monster' trope, only the monster is his own corruption . . . just such DEPTH.
But I absolutely adore Oscar Wilde, so . . . 🙂
a better version of “fated mates” is the “soulmate” trope which is way cuter and hopeful. they usually are about something happening to you and your soulmate when you meet for the first time or having matching something (like tattoos) and i find them to be very cute, wholesome and funny most of the times :]
I recently discovered that "right person, wrong time/not enough time" is one of my favorite tropes 😍
Also, I am a basic beech and I looove medieval europe fantasy settings 🙉🙊
Pov Romeo and Juliet lmao
As a demiromantic/demisexual person, every time someone says that from a friendship there can't be anything romantic not only I suffer and die, but I question the sanity of allo people XD
You're not the only one!
I don't know where or if I fall an the aromantic spectrum yet (I've thought about it) but if I were ever to date someone I'd want to know them for a little bit (like at least a few months) first. I find this whole "people can't know eachother platonically first they must start out as strangers" mentality extremely weird and I absolutely hate it :/
@@bowgart6719 I think most people are referring to friends who have known/grown up with each other when talking about that trope. The relationship can give off a sibling vibe which can be off putting
@@bowgart6719 Couldn't agree more!
My last dating experience was SO awkward because we didn't get the chance to know each other as friends; he just asked me out and I said yes because I DID want to get to know him. But then it didn't go anywhere and now we're not even friends since we broke up. So now I'm a LOT more determined to get to know people as friends before I decide to date them; that way, I'll already know if they will never be more than friends and can keep it that way! 🙂
@@bowgart6719 thnk you. I was looking for this.
Friends to enemies is top tier for me as well! I call it "Brotrayal" and I live for it! Vicious is one of my absolute favorites.
brotrayal ahahaha
Any recs for this trope?
CHARLES AND ERIK FROM X MEN IS JUST >>>>>>>>
evervale
Red dead redemption 2
A lot of people don't know the difference between tropes and cliches. They think "tropes" are always automatically 'unoriginal' &/or 'bad' writing. But it takes as much skill to write a trope well, especially in a way that readers who are specifically wanting to see characters or storylines utilizing that trope will enjoy, as it takes to write anything else. And just because you use a particular trope, doesn't mean you're necessarily using it in the exact same story or with the exact same characters[ or etc.] as other people do.
(Besides which, having bad writing isn't actually the same thing as having unoriginal stories or characters. Story and character and such are actually a totally separate element from the literal writing itself! [ _Technically_ speaking.😁😁😁] 😅🤣🤣) Lol 😆 ^-^
Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has a great villain redemption arc, it’s one of my favorite character arcs in TV! Also, to me academic rivals to lovers is the top-tier show-stopping bangeranger of tropes. My fave is Anne and Gilbert in both the Anne of Green Gables books and the Anne with an E TV show.
Faith's villain redemption arc was my favourite.
My favorite is friends to lovers because I like the idea of them having troubles with finding out their feelings are romantic + I like them trying to get into an actual relationship. Like the person usually has to debate if they want to have a chance at ruining the friendship or just silently suffer with their feelings. Also I'm dating someone who was my best friend so Im a sucker for it
Hurt/Comfort is literally so good when done right and I will stand by that. (Love your videos btw!!)
My favorite twist on the love-triangle trope is unexpected polyamory ("why have to choose if all three/four of us can be together") with the background cast having "wait, WHAT?!" reaction.
I need more of this. Do You have any recomendations?
The only instance of this I know of is in the Netflix show Sense8.
The novel The Fifth Season also had a poly relationship that started out a bit like a love triangle.
@@Jakota1993 I watched sense8, It's a shame it was cancel. I'm gonna add the fifth season to ma tbr
@@charoraimondogarcia webtoon series Boyfriends has poly relationship between 4 college students. If you don't mind smutty romance, "Collared by Love" by Della Cain is a great pick!
Also, if you want some light fantasy with angst - The Wicker King by K.Ancrum.
@@charoraimondogarcia I'm reading Iron Widow and it has a poly relationship.
Friends to enemies is xmen charles and erik. Superb tragedy 👌🏻
omg i forgot to mention that one but i LOVE that one!
13:55 I like when the friends to lovers trope happens when the friends grew up together but at some point maybe in teenage years where they realise they're attracted to each other and start pulling away from each other to not give away their feeling, until something big happens and they're like "well now we have to kiss"
I just want to say about the fated mates troupe,the idea of having a soulmate that's meant to be with you is comforting,it can be done well.
Also Anne of Green Gables for academic rivals to lovers
Vanya Hargreeves from The Umbrella Academy and Alice from The Magicians are two hero to villain arcs that I love.
Another example of a hero to villain arc is in Heartless by Marissa Meyer! I read it recently and absolutely loved it. Great video!
Personally I LOVE medieval Europe setting. It is because I live in middle europe and there are so many medieval castles. It's just close to me and I like it, but the story has to be good. Book settings are like what you paint on.Even a drawing on the sidewalk can be masterpeace..
I'd love book recommendations with a grumpy female protagonist because I can't think of any!
Not Here To Be Liked is an amazing academic rivals to lovers with underdog characters! If you want to pick up any contemporary romances this year I think you'd really like this one
THE MOMENT YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR BOOK HAS A FEW OF THE ELITE TROPES- 😭✋
I've never been happier I swear-
Fated mates can be fun when it's in a context without powerplay. You just have two characters who are incredibly drawn to each other, but they're both fighting it bc they don't /know/ each other. But then they have to spend time together and they slowly do get to know each other, while still trying to resist. And when one or both of them has deluded themselves into thinking it's all one-sided, but then there's a big confession moment where they finally realize that no, actually, we are totally crazy for each other and we can give in 👌 good soup
The first couple that came to mind in the friends to lovers trope is Chandler and Monica from Friends and they are my favorite so that mean I must love this trope
What about the Ron and Hermione friends to lovers tho. I know, basic HP example but I think they move into them being the loves of their lifes quite naturally :)
I clicked for Zuko and I have no regrets about it
Same
I really *love* the soulmates trope, but for me, I like it when it's either just reading fanfic for fluff, or if it's not revealed they're soulmates until they already have a certain level of familiarity with each other,, like, they already need to have a certain bond and have sacrificed for each other and then it's realised,, or if there is a sign that they're soulmates, but it's not obvious and they only realise later, or they dont know who it is, but have a connection physically/mentally,,, or sometimes if it's less soulmates and more "there's certain people who are more compatible than others",,, but yeah, soulmates is my jam, but I like it when there's a gimmick,, like, for example,, I actually have a book I'll maybe write one day that has soulmates where all the characters have a power, and their soulmates power will be related in some way, could be complimentary or opposing, and when they bond it essentially increases each of their powers,, but the thing is, they don't figure out they're soulmates until there becomes a certain level of trust or act of sacrifice, or emotional bond, and the powers aren't obvious enough to say "oh, yeah, these two are soulmates, and these 5 are soulmates, and these 3 are clearly soulmates",,, so, like, it's a thing, but it's not clear who's soulmates with who,, and also, soulmates aren't necessarily romantic, they can also be platonic,,,,,,,,, but yeah,, here's my pitch for why soulmates is a great trope when done in creative ways
the way you described 'academic rivals to lovers' is literally anne shirley-cuthbert and gilbert blythe, especially how they're portrayed in anne with an e
Villain redemption arc I love: Elantris by Brandon Sanderson.
Hadestown Broadway musical has a breathtaking hero corruption arc into a tragedy that is somehow cathartic.
I love how zuko and catra are the only villian redemption arc she can think of when hook from once upon a time is on her screen
Robin Hobb does an incredible job with tying up povs in Liveship trilogy!
Villains redemption arcs need to be more common, i love to see the journey of an antagonist finding their way to "goodness" or just plain old self forgiveness, also I need more recommendations of this trope and academic rivals to lovers cause I agree, it's so top tier.
PS: you are playing genshin impact?? omg, i'm also super invested in kaeya's and diluc's story, hope we can learn more about it in the future :(
3:25 - Why so much fantasy medieval Europe? Well, the modern fantasy genre started with writers of European heritage looking to THEIR myths and epics for inspiration (eg. Tolkien). A lot of these early examples were really good - seriously, read Lord of the Rings even if you think you are tired of this! - and then EVERYONE copied them. However, since fantasy as a genre is now known and loved around the world, and people are getting bored with this, you're more likely to find a story that is good and creative overall if you pick something that has other cultural influences.
I agree, but also I don't. I think a lot of people use the term "medieval Europe", but what they actually mean is northwestern Europe with more of a Renaissance vibe. Europe has always had a lot more variety than that! England is not a good benchmark for all European countries, especially those to the east and south.
season 6 of buffy the vampire slayer has two characters that go down the hero corruption arc, and even though the characters end up coming back more heroic than ever in season 7, their journeys into the darker side of their powers in season 6 is *chef's kiss*
Also the inverse, tbh the redemption arcs in btvs and angel the series kinda ruined the rest for me because they are my favorite
@@lunarvisions7 Faith's redemption arc is one of the best I've seen in media (aside from Zuko). Absolutely perfect.
@@Zivilin I loved her redemption arc, and also Spike's. Cordy's was the best of all for me. I honestly did not like the corruption arcs in Buffy though; Willow's in particular seemed forced and unrealistic. I can't imagine such a caring individual being corrupted by lust for power, but I would have loved it if it had been about her finally getting fed up and taking revenge on everybody else for just taking her for granted and using her all those years.
I totally agree on your thoughts on love triangles. If they are there just for the sake to complicate things a bit, then it is usually really bad, but if it actually have a bigger purpose then it can be amazing. I loved Silvia Moreno-Garcia's The Beautiful Ones because it actually delved deep into the complications and hurt feelings a love triangle will make.
Tbh one of my favorite times a trope happened is in ToH, with Luz and Amity, bc it’s well written + it’s almost exactly how you described it in the video lmao
When you mentioned "Tragic Hero" or as you said "Hero going down the path of darkness" I immediately thought of Anakin Skywalker, arguably the best example of this trope. Of course there are other famous ones like Macbeth, Frankenstein, Dorian Grey or Oedipus.
GIRL!! LITERALLY SAME!!!
I am pretty sure that word count wise I have read more words then I have done in quite a long time but my Goodreads will never see the light of those... Ooh well
The Kinder Poison series does a really good job of showing how a relationship changes as the villain tries to become better for the hero while the hero becomes worse just to oppose the villain. There are a lot of places where you're unsure if the hero and the villain are enemies, friends, or even lovers.
One reason why most stories are set in Europe and not in an asian dynasty is because the culture behind them is so vast that if any author who is not well educated on them attempted to write a story set there, it would look unrealistic and it would be cultural appropriation.
In my (potentially controversial) opinion, the love triangle in The Hunger Games was way worse than the one in Twilight. I still love The Hunger Games more though :)
But I think it also represented two paths that Katniss could have taken. I think what made the love triangle horrible were the fans who went all "team x". It made the story out the be about what boy to choose when that wasn't the theme of the books at all.
@@legumesss I think you’re absolutely right about that!!
Yeah, gale was so so unlikable compared to peeta
It was alright in the books but terribly executed in the movies. Twilight on the other hand was bad in books and movies... I mean, girlboss had to choose between a manipulative stalker and a manipulative s*xual assaulter. Not exactly top tier 😂
Scorpia from She-ra also had a villain redemption arc. Like that did happen. And you can argue Entrapta did too. Granted they were never the main villains, and more the side-kicks to the main villains but they still did a lot of wrongs.
you described the PERFECT type of academic rivals to lovers that I cherish with my whole heart, just *chefs kiss* PLEASEE IF ANYONE HAS RECOMMENDATIONS !! GIMME PLSSSS also yes grumpy-sunshine but the grump is the girl trope, I have been LOOKINGGG FOR THOSE
It absolutely shatters my heart that friends to lovers is bottom tier.
Another villain redemption arc is Sasuke from Naruto!! It's a long anime but so worth it (skip the fillers).
And for the bubbly boy and grumpy girl trope I thought of Fan Girl by Rainbow Rowell!
My favorite trope of all time is Enemies to Lovers. But like, well done. Like they need to actually dislike each other, not like how I unfortunately see in many fics where the whole time they secretly like the other and only fake dislike. Like actual enemies. On opposite sides of some topic and they hate each other. But they are forced to interact. And slowly, SLOWLY AND REALISTICALLY, get to know each other; their past struggles, interests, and more. They slowly develop a care for each other even as they try to deny it and fight against it, determined to stick to what they knew. But they eventually are forced to face the reality of their new feelings. I prefer them being friends first before the attraction is fully realized. I love it if they are forced to face off against each other, commanded to fight or kill each other, but they don't. Or they save each other.
Mmm. I am writing a book rn and I am writing an enemies to lovers plot thread in it; it's not a romance book, it's an action adventure sci-fi fantasy, but there is a romance plot thread in it.
Where can I read your book? :)
@@NotAn0kay it’s not out yet but I’m working on it!
@@themimsy Alr, tell me when it it.
@@NotAn0kay if I remember I absolutely will!
one of the best rivals-to-lovers tropes i've seen lately is in the Hulu series The Great!!! it's SOOOO good! a royal couple who are constantly trying to murder one another but fall in love?? i eat it up
I agree with all yours I have more favorites :
The chosen one ( Paul in Dune, Harry Potter) still love it when it's done well
The secret heir with the revenge trope ( hidden truth)
Redemption of the villain trope ( sasuke)
The relectant hero ( The Mirror Visitor by Christelle Davos)
The Quest
Deconstruct flaws ( percy Jackson)
Use readers expectation against them ( the witcher)
Defy the norm with dark choices ( First law by Bayaz)
I too love the mentor trope and the villain redemption arc. I love how meticulous you are, Leonie! Have a great week!
Anakin Skywalker is my definition of the hero corruption arc 🥺🤌🏼
Such a fun video to watch and made me think about what my favorite tropes actually are. I agreed with most of your choices, though I would put the found family trope in the "top tier elite girls that get it get it" rank. I can never get enough of that one ☺
I think Wheel of Time is a good reluctant hero example. His reluctance is based on the fact that if he embraces the hero role, and fully explores and masters “magic” then he’s destined to go crazy and turn into a villain.
This was such a great video! I loved that you mentioned reading fanfiction because it can sometimes feel like that‘s not viewed as „real“ or legitimate reading. I‘ll spend the rest of my day thinking about my favorite tropes 🙌🏻
Never before has a video touched my very soul
Academic rivals to lovers is a MAJOR trope in romance mangas
I'm a loser who plays League. and in original League Lore Viktor and Jayce are amazing academic rivals to lovers bait, man. In some Arcane/League fanfic you can still find the troupe being played out and I love it lmao. (They actually fit quite a few good troupes here. but I don't know where Arcane will take their characters and don't wanna accidentally spoiler anything for anyone who knows nothing about League.)
The academic rivals to lovers trope reminded me so much of my favorite anime Special A. I loved it so much when I was little and I was head over heels on Kei Takishima for a very long time
If you're looking for a hero turned villain I'd 100% recommend the Young Elites trilogy by Marie Lu. (Not sure if you've read it but I loved it.)
U r so real for this one, i ranked almost all of them the same, except for found family, always elite for me
anne and gilbert in anne of green gables invented academic rivals to lovers and i will always thank them for that
the academic rivals to lovers is SO GOOD it reminds me of jake and amy from b99
The Poppy war has that hero corruption arc done reaaaaaally well, 100% recommend
omg your blush looks so cute
I'm a simple girl. I see Captain Swan, I click. Also, I love how you were struggling to name more villains with redemption arcs when Killian Jones was right there 🤣
Disco Elysium used an amnesia trope in a very satisfying way. It's a great game in general with top tier writing.
Woah, late night upload for the Netherlands.
Very fun subject and fun video though. (: As soon as I saw the reaction and opinion of heists, I was like "yes, this is why I subscribe to Leonie". I am in the right place.
yeah lol took some time to finish it all up
Someone probably just wrote this but I need to put Regina Mills on your villain redemption trope. So, she‘s in my opinion the actual hero of Once Upon A Time and a very good example for this trope and how much it works in general. You are totally right, one of the best tropes EVER! Another example would be Darth Vader, by the way. And Kylo Ren.
I think soulmates trope -which i think you included when talking about fated mates - is ELITE if it has no sexual influence. Like it's literally about souls and compatibility and finding your other half but it shouldn't guarantee a successful relationship or the best sex of your life that pulls out your "animal instincts".
I love the idea of having someone who is meant to be with you or is your true love in the OUAT sense. The Sarah J. Maas style of mates is NOT it but the soulmate trope is elite for me.
I was so hesitant to use tropes in my writing because I really didn't want to be a colleen hoover 2.0 but after some close consideration I think we're good.
for the diluc and kaeya thing, you find out what happens in the visual novel. It's a very love-hate relationship (mainly leaning on hate) and you can see glimpses of care by diluc since he kept that one very colourful vase kaeya gave to him in the dawn winery.
okay
As someone who almost always hates amnesia in stories, I’d like to speak in defence of it.
The problem is usually one of two things. The first is common in mainstream stuff, and that’s when it’s used as a plot device and nothing else. Like what you said: extra screen time, or else an expository shortcut. It’s lazy.
The second is the issue I see in fanfic: TDDC (too dark don’t care). Amnesia fics have a tendency to be pure, dragging angst with nothing to invest you, or at the very least, not enough relief to make it worthwhile. It’s too heavy and too hopeless to wrap your head around. It makes you feel bad, without making it matter.
But that’s more because of how it’s being utilized. It’s underused by good writers because it’s been oversaturated by lazy or beginner content.
THAT BEING SAID, when it IS DONE RIGHT, it is one of the most POWERFUL TROPES IVE EVER SEEN. The story that got me to start writing again after over a year, and which I still hail as the best writing I’ve read, period? Used that trope. Not in a typical sense, but it did it nonetheless. It’s called Passerine. An excerpt from it:
“Tubbo could almost see himself shaking the prince awake. And the prince would blink drowsiness from his eyes, ask Tubbo who he was, and Tubbo would say, “A friend,” and maybe in another life that wouldn’t be a lie.
Tubbo’s cheeks felt warm. He knew he must be crying. He knew he must be sad. But for whom? Who was he even mourning? His kingdom’s prince, yes, but the harsher truth, a stranger. A stranger whose laughter still faintly echoed in Tubbo’s head like a half-remembered song from a distant childhood. … A stranger that felt like no stranger at all. But a stranger nonetheless, Tubbo reminded himself.”
Another brilliant example is the movie Next Gen on Netflix. The whole thing is centred around how memories make us who we are, and forces an impossible choice between those memories and the person who helped make them.
I’m currently writing a fic where I’m trying to help undo the mishandling of this trope. The character getting amnesia is the inciting incident, and it’s caused by a forced reset (they’re robots) by the abuser he escaped in the source media’s canon. The plot is centred around surrounding characters trying to get him back out of this abusive situation. The main character- who he was very close with, and who helped him the first time- is someone he’s supposed to kill, and the other character who’s helping has to pretend not to care about him or she’ll get them both killed, but is stuck watching everything that happens. I work really hard to have genuinely happy moments and the comfort to balance out the hurt. Even when the overall situation is grim, I have moments of relief and a more bittersweet tone to interactions overall. And there’s always forward progress so it doesn’t feel completely hopeless for any length of time.
(If anyone watches Murder Drones, the fic is called “My Mind is Volatile at Best”. Ao3 isn’t showing when I update, sooo yeah, it’d be nice to have readers again lol)
Anyways. It can be done well, and I think it’s mostly used in a cheap way because it’s very easy to make overwhelming, and therefore it’s risky as a serious plot element. It has the potential to hit harder than major character death. Essentially, a character has died, but their loved ones are being taunted by it, constantly reminded, and frustrated by this futile hope that leads nowhere, especially if they can’t get their memories back.
I wrote another freaking essay in the comment section of a freaking TH-cam video gosh darnit-