This broadcast was spectacular. So rare to find master photographers giving unfiltered opinions and advice on advanced topics without defaulting to platitudes and other nonsense. I wish we could see more forums just like this. Great job.
Thanks for posting the conversation. In general (and I've mentioned this in previous posts), I agree with Tommy with regards to "locking in focus" first. As he is, I am still experimenting with which mode is going to work the best in which circumstance, and unfortunately, having to use several modes to switch between (with none of them being entirely reliable for what you want the end result to be). This includes (after focus lock) Wide Area/L/S or 3D (which randomly jumps many places), and single point (for lock between branches). I have often been tempted (as Tommy describes) to go back to Dynamic (instead of single point) small/large for initial AF acquisition. After watching this video I will likely try this next time out. I completely agree with him (and the panel in general) that it depends entirely on your subject matter. Use the technology, but it's not yet ready to solely rely on it. Well said. The comment sequence that could cause confusion for those listening: Several times the term "Dynamic Wide" was used (I believe in reference to "Wide Area". I went back to look at my Z9 because I didn't remember an AF Mode labeled Dynamic Wide. After reviewing the possible settings, I still can not find this mode (i.e. it's either Dynamic small, medium, large) or Wide Area (small, large). Did I miss something? That said, this is exactly the issue I've been complaining about with the Nikon Z9 (don't get me wrong, I love the camera) is that this process (locking focus having to think about dynamic vs single point and then switching over to Wide area or 3D means a lot of camera button real-estate has to be devoted to different modes, and our minds have to remain engaged in decision making that isn't just framing up the shot or deciding when the press the shutter. The comment regarding which mode to use by Tommy of "It all depends on my mood" is exactly the problem with these modes and this discussion. There is no set way to solve the problem in most circumstances.
Yes I was a bit confused re dynamic wide and wide area too - it would be great to know the settings for each pro here - I would love to try them all out.
@@Photographersforyou Couldn't agree with you more - and I do know that there was an attempt to correct the fusion of mode syntax (I did catch that). From the discussion, it is clear that a deep dive into the Nikon AF system and exactly how it is working in the Z9 is important, and the next time I see my Nikon rep I am going to make a list of questions to grill him with. Then, it's back to the field. All-n-All helpful to hear the discussion even if the terms became confused. It did highlight areas to explore more deeply. Get back to you on that.
I believe Tommy meant to say Dynamic Area Large when he was referring to Dynamic. I have had the most success with Wide Area Large personally but that's for snowy owls and ducks so far and not smaller birds. I expect once I begin shooting smaller subjects I may be moving to wide area small. I did try 3D but it was not great for locking on to the subject and if it missed I had difficulty getting it back on the subject quickly. I have not tried any of the dynamic modes given my success rate with wide area large has been great. I do have a fn button set for single point which I move to for static subjects. Regarding the mood comment from Tommy, I took that to mean more what subject he would be shooting. Example: The water around the eye of the osprey coming out of the water or the reflection of the wood duck fouled the eye detect system and that's when he felt dynamic was a better option.
@@Coolwildlife1 Thanks for the clarification, and when listening, I sort of read between the lines (but that wasn't always the easiest). I do have a quick question for you (embarrassed to ask it because I should delve into the Nikon Manual for the answer). Let me say thanks for taking the time and putting this together. QUESTION: When setting up the "photo shooting" menu, Area Mode - when you place the default to "Wide Area - Large" isn't that immediately overridden by you have other modes mapped to half press the shutter release button, Fn1, and AF-On? What is your default? I would assume if I didn't have other modes on AF-On that when I pressed the AF-On button it would default to WA-Large, but I'm just wondering if you made dynamic area small to fn1 (or single point), Wide area = L to shutter release and 3D to AF-On - it seems like you are immediately overriding the Default unless you press the shutter release button. As for 3D being less reliable (completely agree unless it improves a lot with the update coming April 20th. I understand why you would use the mode WA-L with Snowy Owls (wish we had them here in Texas). Barn Swallows' are super erratic, super fast birds to capture in flight especially with a long focal length. Even at a distance, they are across your field of view in less than a second (hard for even the fastest AF mode to catch them) or to know which mode would work best (still working on that project). Thanks for your help.
@@dance2jam I was experimenting with mine and so I moved off of back button focus to shutter focus. I have wide area large set to AF-ON and 3D set to the shutter button. The idea as I have seen other doing was to start tracking the bird with AF-ON pressed down and once locked on release the AF-ON and 3D would automatically pick up the subject from there. I have single point set to fn3 because I shoot quite a bit in vertical and trying to reach F1 in vertical is difficult. Now that Nikon has announced firmware 2.0 that has function buttons that will not have to be held down I will likely switch back to BBF and have f3 as single point and F1 as dynamic large. It's all an experiment right now.
This was a good discussion. Many well thought perspectives and a range of experience and expertise to contrast the ideas. There was much here to make one think!
Very interesting learnt a lot from you guys. Steve just to let you know you can decide to use the shutter as main focusing mode or backbutton only and still use focus persistence with the backbutton focus switch to a FN button - basically you dont need to have to switch to shutter and one other button, you can switch between backbutton and a function button - you must setup the backbutton to AF-ON (NOT Af area mode OR Af area+AF-on) and ALL other FN Buttons must be setup as AF-area mode +AF-ON (NOT AF-area mode) - For example with back button focus I have. AF-ON button set To AF-ON in custom menu (which I select from the focus mode side button to what ever you want in my case WIDE-L). FN1 set to 3D, FN2 set to DYN (M), FN3 set to single and SUb-selector to Auto-area AF. If you setup as NON back button focus but focus with shutter button, I have set shutter to Wide-L, and in custom shooting menu the AF-ON button is set to (AF-area mode + AF-On (3D)), FN1 (AF-area mode + AF-On (Auto-area), FN2 (AF-area mode + AF-On (DYN medium) FN3 (AF-area mode + AF-On (single point). Confusing I know but it allows me to switch between any combination of focus modes without losing the subject. I have tried both backbutton focus and shutter focus and both ways are great. I still prefer the backbutton focus way however as I dont need to setup a focus lock with the joypad, the shutter is used for just taking pictures.
SOUND silence during shooting was the reason for purchasing the Z9. Mirrorless should become the norm for wildlife photography. It's very disturbing to animals when you fire off a DSLR and the shutter sounds off, causing the animals to stop, look and run or fly off. I have my D6 sitting on my desk, as a paperweight. I love the D6 but can't use it in the field after causing so many animals to run away because of how loud it is. Wildlife photography should be performed without the animal knowing you are there. Thank you for the information, I've learned a lot from this cast. I agree with you, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT and their behaviors. Read your environment, read the clues and predict their movements.
Hi Bill and everyone else in the discussion, I found it very interesting. I have some questions regarding focus priority in af/c. For my Z9 camera I cannot get 20 fps. 1. Menu Settings, A1 set to focus priority. 2. Af/c mode 3. 20 fps mode. 4. Whilst focusing either back button or shutter button focusing (Settings A6 af activation does not matter) At any Aperture between f6.3 - f22 camera does not get 20 fps and stutters. At any Aperture between f1.8 - f5.6 camera does get 20 fps. When Settings A1 is set to Release priority. Camera can attain 20 fps with no issues. Just for your info with firmware version 2.0 I have the above problem in all modes, P,S,M,A. In firmware 1.11 - shutter would not even fire at higher aperture numbers in P or S mode. Any ideas or is this normal with the above settings? I noticed that my 2 Tamron adapted lenses without the linkage aperture lever on lens it works as expected. So basically my Z lenses and fmount G lenses I get the above behaviour above f5.6?!
Here's my take on your situation. When A1 is set to focus priority it will not take a shot if the subject is not in focus as a result the camera will stop shooting. In release mode in AF-C the camera will shoot regardless of whether the subject is in focus or not which is why you have no issue in release mode. I do not recommend shooting bursts at 20 FPS in anything other than release mode. Why do you wish to shoot in focus priority? Also take a look at your shutter speeds.as you increase your aperture. Any shutter speed under 1/500th and you will not get 20 FPS. I suspect you are not seeing the issue with f1,8 - f5,6 because you have enough light to keep the shutter speed above 1/500th.
@@Coolwildlife1 thanks for your reply, just to let you know I am a professional photographer, just in case you may be unaware that I do know what you suspect regarding light and fast shutter speeds 1/500th But….in this case whenever the aperture goes above f5.6 in continuous burst whether in Shutter priority 2500th/s or aperture priority above f5.6 and shutter is fast the camera slows down even on stationary subjects…or even when set in Program mode and continuously shooting as soon as aperture goes above f5.6 it stutters. Any further ideas please….or can you test this yourself.
Thanks for a a very fine discussion. I have a Z9 and learned to try my old D500 group for acquisition. In past have been using WA on shutter with 3D on BB. Also will disable Vr with fast shutter speeds.
@@ianmackenzie8584 I guess the smiley face at the end of my comment didn't give you enough clue I was joking. As far as your comment about me achieving very little in my photographic career. You might be right.. Head over to my face book and than judge for yourself. I am always working to improve m work and understanding of photography . I feel that Auto focus is not necessary for the type of work I do and I find manually focusing challenging. Saying that using a mirror less camera with focus peaking and in the body stabilization can be a great help. I don't personally own a Z9 yet but have used other mirrorless bodies on my Nikkor telephoto's /Super Telephoto Nikkor AI-s glass.
This broadcast was spectacular. So rare to find master photographers giving unfiltered opinions and advice on advanced topics without defaulting to platitudes and other nonsense. I wish we could see more forums just like this. Great job.
Thanks for posting the conversation. In general (and I've mentioned this in previous posts), I agree with Tommy with regards to "locking in focus" first. As he is, I am still experimenting with which mode is going to work the best in which circumstance, and unfortunately, having to use several modes to switch between (with none of them being entirely reliable for what you want the end result to be). This includes (after focus lock) Wide Area/L/S or 3D (which randomly jumps many places), and single point (for lock between branches). I have often been tempted (as Tommy describes) to go back to Dynamic (instead of single point) small/large for initial AF acquisition. After watching this video I will likely try this next time out. I completely agree with him (and the panel in general) that it depends entirely on your subject matter. Use the technology, but it's not yet ready to solely rely on it. Well said. The comment sequence that could cause confusion for those listening: Several times the term "Dynamic Wide" was used (I believe in reference to "Wide Area". I went back to look at my Z9 because I didn't remember an AF Mode labeled Dynamic Wide. After reviewing the possible settings, I still can not find this mode (i.e. it's either Dynamic small, medium, large) or Wide Area (small, large). Did I miss something? That said, this is exactly the issue I've been complaining about with the Nikon Z9 (don't get me wrong, I love the camera) is that this process (locking focus having to think about dynamic vs single point and then switching over to Wide area or 3D means a lot of camera button real-estate has to be devoted to different modes, and our minds have to remain engaged in decision making that isn't just framing up the shot or deciding when the press the shutter. The comment regarding which mode to use by Tommy of "It all depends on my mood" is exactly the problem with these modes and this discussion. There is no set way to solve the problem in most circumstances.
Yes I was a bit confused re dynamic wide and wide area too - it would be great to know the settings for each pro here - I would love to try them all out.
@@Photographersforyou Couldn't agree with you more - and I do know that there was an attempt to correct the fusion of mode syntax (I did catch that). From the discussion, it is clear that a deep dive into the Nikon AF system and exactly how it is working in the Z9 is important, and the next time I see my Nikon rep I am going to make a list of questions to grill him with. Then, it's back to the field. All-n-All helpful to hear the discussion even if the terms became confused. It did highlight areas to explore more deeply. Get back to you on that.
I believe Tommy meant to say Dynamic Area Large when he was referring to Dynamic. I have had the most success with Wide Area Large personally but that's for snowy owls and ducks so far and not smaller birds. I expect once I begin shooting smaller subjects I may be moving to wide area small. I did try 3D but it was not great for locking on to the subject and if it missed I had difficulty getting it back on the subject quickly. I have not tried any of the dynamic modes given my success rate with wide area large has been great. I do have a fn button set for single point which I move to for static subjects. Regarding the mood comment from Tommy, I took that to mean more what subject he would be shooting. Example: The water around the eye of the osprey coming out of the water or the reflection of the wood duck fouled the eye detect system and that's when he felt dynamic was a better option.
@@Coolwildlife1 Thanks for the clarification, and when listening, I sort of read between the lines (but that wasn't always the easiest). I do have a quick question for you (embarrassed to ask it because I should delve into the Nikon Manual for the answer). Let me say thanks for taking the time and putting this together. QUESTION: When setting up the "photo shooting" menu, Area Mode - when you place the default to "Wide Area - Large" isn't that immediately overridden by you have other modes mapped to half press the shutter release button, Fn1, and AF-On? What is your default? I would assume if I didn't have other modes on AF-On that when I pressed the AF-On button it would default to WA-Large, but I'm just wondering if you made dynamic area small to fn1 (or single point), Wide area = L to shutter release and 3D to AF-On - it seems like you are immediately overriding the Default unless you press the shutter release button. As for 3D being less reliable (completely agree unless it improves a lot with the update coming April 20th. I understand why you would use the mode WA-L with Snowy Owls (wish we had them here in Texas). Barn Swallows' are super erratic, super fast birds to capture in flight especially with a long focal length. Even at a distance, they are across your field of view in less than a second (hard for even the fastest AF mode to catch them) or to know which mode would work best (still working on that project). Thanks for your help.
@@dance2jam I was experimenting with mine and so I moved off of back button focus to shutter focus. I have wide area large set to AF-ON and 3D set to the shutter button. The idea as I have seen other doing was to start tracking the bird with AF-ON pressed down and once locked on release the AF-ON and 3D would automatically pick up the subject from there. I have single point set to fn3 because I shoot quite a bit in vertical and trying to reach F1 in vertical is difficult. Now that Nikon has announced firmware 2.0 that has function buttons that will not have to be held down I will likely switch back to BBF and have f3 as single point and F1 as dynamic large. It's all an experiment right now.
This was a good discussion. Many well thought perspectives and a range of experience and expertise to contrast the ideas. There was much here to make one think!
I'm glad to hear that you found it thought-provoking, hope you can execute on a few of the ideas we batted around
Very interesting learnt a lot from you guys. Steve just to let you know you can decide to use the shutter as main focusing mode or backbutton only and still use focus persistence with the backbutton focus switch to a FN button - basically you dont need to have to switch to shutter and one other button, you can switch between backbutton and a function button - you must setup the backbutton to AF-ON (NOT Af area mode OR Af area+AF-on) and ALL other FN Buttons must be setup as AF-area mode +AF-ON (NOT AF-area mode) - For example with back button focus I have. AF-ON button set To AF-ON in custom menu (which I select from the focus mode side button to what ever you want in my case WIDE-L). FN1 set to 3D, FN2 set to DYN (M), FN3 set to single and SUb-selector to Auto-area AF. If you setup as NON back button focus but focus with shutter button, I have set shutter to Wide-L, and in custom shooting menu the AF-ON button is set to (AF-area mode + AF-On (3D)), FN1 (AF-area mode + AF-On (Auto-area), FN2 (AF-area mode + AF-On (DYN medium) FN3 (AF-area mode + AF-On (single point). Confusing I know but it allows me to switch between any combination of focus modes without losing the subject. I have tried both backbutton focus and shutter focus and both ways are great. I still prefer the backbutton focus way however as I dont need to setup a focus lock with the joypad, the shutter is used for just taking pictures.
I'm glad you found a few tips from the session and thank you for your commentary on AF.
Hi Ron, good session with informed and experienced people giving advice. Shame I had to leave the FB Z9 group - are those people still members?
Yes we are all still members
@@Coolwildlife1 Not you guys! You're cool. A few halfwits on a Facebook page with no understanding of optics who became belligerent when corrected.
Hey awesome video! Keep up the great work, you got yourself a new subscriber 😄
Cool, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for subscribing Oliver
SOUND silence during shooting was the reason for purchasing the Z9.
Mirrorless should become the norm for wildlife photography. It's very disturbing to animals when you fire off a DSLR and the shutter sounds off, causing the animals to stop, look and run or fly off.
I have my D6 sitting on my desk, as a paperweight. I love the D6 but can't use it in the field after causing so many animals to run away because of how loud it is. Wildlife photography should be performed without the animal knowing you are there.
Thank you for the information, I've learned a lot from this cast. I agree with you, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT and their behaviors. Read your environment, read the clues and predict their movements.
Hi Bill and everyone else in the discussion, I found it very interesting. I have some questions regarding focus priority in af/c.
For my Z9 camera I cannot get 20 fps.
1. Menu Settings, A1 set to focus priority.
2. Af/c mode
3. 20 fps mode.
4. Whilst focusing either back button or shutter button focusing (Settings A6 af activation does not matter)
At any Aperture between f6.3 - f22 camera does not get 20 fps and stutters.
At any Aperture between f1.8 - f5.6 camera does get 20 fps.
When Settings A1 is set to Release priority. Camera can attain 20 fps with no issues.
Just for your info with firmware version 2.0
I have the above problem in all modes, P,S,M,A. In firmware 1.11 - shutter would not even fire at higher aperture numbers in P or S mode.
Any ideas or is this normal with the above settings? I noticed that my 2 Tamron adapted lenses without the linkage aperture lever on lens it works as expected.
So basically my Z lenses and fmount G lenses I get the above behaviour above f5.6?!
Here's my take on your situation. When A1 is set to focus priority it will not take a shot if the subject is not in focus as a result the camera will stop shooting. In release mode in AF-C the camera will shoot regardless of whether the subject is in focus or not which is why you have no issue in release mode. I do not recommend shooting bursts at 20 FPS in anything other than release mode. Why do you wish to shoot in focus priority? Also take a look at your shutter speeds.as you increase your aperture. Any shutter speed under 1/500th and you will not get 20 FPS. I suspect you are not seeing the issue with f1,8 - f5,6 because you have enough light to keep the shutter speed above 1/500th.
@@Coolwildlife1 thanks for your reply, just to let you know I am a professional photographer, just in case you may be unaware that I do know what you suspect regarding light and fast shutter speeds 1/500th But….in this case whenever the aperture goes above f5.6 in continuous burst whether in Shutter priority 2500th/s or aperture priority above f5.6 and shutter is fast the camera slows down even on stationary subjects…or even when set in Program mode and continuously shooting as soon as aperture goes above f5.6 it stutters. Any further ideas please….or can you test this yourself.
Thanks for a a very fine discussion. I have a Z9 and learned to try my old D500 group for acquisition. In past have been using WA on shutter with 3D on BB. Also will disable Vr with fast shutter speeds.
Where in the video do they say on how to replicate the old fashioned Group mode in the Z9. I probably missed this part.
hey Bill, long time fan of the channel.... however I don't shoot birds. Shooting birds is for the birds LMFAO
Too funny, appreciate you being a fanboy though.:))
Autofocus is for quitters :)
Nice
Those kind of comments always come from frustrated amateurs who have achieved very little in photography.
@@ianmackenzie8584 I guess the smiley face at the end of my comment didn't give you enough clue I was joking. As far as your comment about me achieving very little in my photographic career. You might be right.. Head over to my face book and than judge for yourself. I am always working to improve m work and understanding of photography . I feel that Auto focus is not necessary for the type of work I do and I find manually focusing challenging. Saying that using a mirror less camera with focus peaking and in the body stabilization can be a great help. I don't personally own a Z9 yet but have used other mirrorless bodies on my Nikkor telephoto's /Super Telephoto Nikkor AI-s glass.