Hey Sam. Happy BDay! As you said, it's 10x the energy density of the current capacitors, NOT 10x the current litium battery density. I'm glad someone is trying to improve batteries also from the capacitors starting point. We do really need all hands on deck!
@@castortoutnu I heard him say that as well. Sounds almost as good as lithium and better chargeability and lifespan. That could make it superior like the advantages of LithiumIron. in the reliability department,
Energy density is 65 Wh/kg, from their specs. Main use case here is regenerative braking (for hybrid or even fully electric cars). It has high power density which means you can store all of deceleration energy as you are not limited by input power. Their claim is 10kW/kg, which means 10kg battery has 100kW power rating which is same as your engine. Also having 50k cycles makes is perfect for this accelerate/decelerate work regiment.
Using your numbers… That 10kg, 100kW battery will store 650Wh of energy ? …and supply that 100kW for approx 23 seconds ! I am sure you are aware that Lithium batteries can far exceed those claimed metrics, as has been shown multiple times. The only tangible benefit with this new cell is its life cycles claim which has yet to be proven and may not be a big sell😊ing point anyway depending on cost comparasons, and if a battery that will last more than 10 years is needed ?
Isnt it great that you know the world isn't as bad as you thought! We are downtrodden with negative news and we devolope a negative view of life. Wh we n i lost my house in Paradise fire i was shown so much love it nade me realize this. We dont see the world as it really is. There is more love than you know. We need to sread this. By the way happy birthday! You are in your prime! Im 63. And i see greatvthings coming in the near future for humanity. That is if we dont self destruct. I have a feeling its a repeating story we must break. We can. Life is up to us.we must not let apathy destroy us like so many times before.
@@weinisable Yes 23 seconds for full charge/discharge with max power. And how long does it take to start/stop a vehicle? I'll reiterate that this is best used for regenerative braking not as li-ion replacement technology. And these metrics are coming from their product brochure not some newspaper clip. I know that any company data must be taken with grain of salt, but this is not vaporware startup company they already have ultracapacitor products range and it seems battery have taken some certification testing. I can imagine this tech to be very beneficial in truck and bus vehicles which require high power engines.
interestingly the 400kWh battery the shell trucks will use weighs about 6 tonnes. and it'll use a 24MW charger to fill up in 90s. that's about 4kW/kg. 50.000 cycles gives a lifetime of about 1000 days assuming these machines run 24/7.
@@weinisable The low cost might make it great for energy storage, and it has a very fast charge up capacity. Great for smoothing out energy availability especially since it's built to charge and discharge maybe lasting a century performing that function. So.. a 200kg powerwall but it's lifecycle would be a lot longer and cost maybe a tenth as much. In a Basement such a backup could be a nice thing to have to balance energy distribution and increase reliability of the powergrid, a disruption wouldn't cause an immediate blackout. It woudl also be a good way to complement wind and solarpower downsides. And droppoing the massive need for Lithium in todays competition is also a huge benefit.
Happy Birthday Sam! Great videos - great content - as always! Even if the Energy density of the Skeleton battery is only comparable to Lithium Ion - the fast charge times and high lifecycle should make it more than competitive. Hoping you cross the 100,000 subscriber mark soon!
HI! At one point in the video, you stated that this is good for short-term storage, something on the order of a half hour or so. That makes sense, even at 10X the energy density of more conventional supercapacitors. That's still far too low for EV application as the main battery pack. They will make it into EVs as an auxiliary storage medium to take more efficient quick charging from regenerative braking and for sudden bursts of rapid acceleration.
Super Battery are amazing with superhigh Power density, excelent for buses charging a minute at every stop or heavy trucks working short distances. But energy density is 65W/Kg so they are not for planes, maybe cars should have a few to capture 90% brake regen
Well done! A bonus "Game changing battery breakthrough" for the month of October. At this rate I'll have to get another filing cabinet to keep them all in.
Happy Birthday - A capacitor (or condenser in the UK) is a fundamentally different component than a battery. A Capacitor stores electrical energy by a static charge between two plates. Its energy density depends on how larger the plates are and how close they are together. This technology has improved to seemingly unbelievable performance levels in the "super capacitor" compared to say 30 years ago, just like batteries. Batteries are electro-chemical where electric energy is stored or discharged. But so far modern high performance batteries like Lithium Phosphate have greater energy density than Super capacitors and will probably continue to do so. But a extremely high energy density supercapacitor is an ideal compliment to a high energy battery assembly since it can do some things much better than batteries 1) Blazingly high power and fast discharge far beyond what a battery can accomplish 2) Many such very high power very fast charge and discharge cycles typically up to about 1 million (1x10E+6) cycles 3) High performance over a very wide temperature range - operating range typically +65 degrees Celsius to -40 degrees Celsius 4) They can be make with relatively common and benign materials no exotic or rare earth elements required and are relatively light weight. A complementary supercapacitor can take on the very high surge demands made on a battery assembly to protect and extend its life and also help out at temperature extremes. Together with the high performance battery assembly it can take on tough real world applications that would kill battery assemblies, the supercapacitor part just has to get to a high enough energy density, a sizable fraction of the battery energy density to scale to a practical compatible size. But probably best is to combine the construction of a supercapacitor within a battery which has been a research holy grail. With the recent advances in nanotechnology I believe this is what SKELETON Technologies may have has finally pulled off. It could potentially be a monumental advance a true disruptive game changer. In Conclusion when it comes to Skeleton's Technologies newest advance, in this electrical engineers humble experience, watch this space very closely!
Another major difference with capacitors (hardly ever discussed) is that their voltage output changes enormously, depending on the energy they are holding. So it's an extra difficulty for the power electronics, to give out power to the motors, while the capacitor 'battery' voltage crashes down from say 400 to 50 ....
Still a year younger than our youngest P.M. for 200yrs, here in the UK. Congratulations, Sam. I think your contribution will prove more influential than Richy Sunak, or any modern P.M.
Impressive! But we will still need to upgrade what is charging the battery. Would we need a 400 to 800 amp breaker box? Certainly exciting technology but there are definitely 2 sides to this. Would be super cool to have one on my house that buffers electrical storage ...
I can see them being useful in the charging stations on the charger side, giving high discharge rates! Also potentially to allow a short stop time if integrated into the car Where it charges the battery over 15 min while you are driving!
Sam, First, Happy Birthday. I just looked at their brochure. They are claiming an energy density of only 65kWh/kg. Sorry, but the harsh reality is that these are not going to replace EV batteries until this is radically increased. When it comes to charging speed, you need to remember that the energy that needs to be delivered during charging doesn't really change (aside from battery efficiency) depending on the storage type. Put simply, to charge a storage device in 60 sec requires 60 times more power than pumping the same amount of energy in over a period of an hour. That means either 60 times the voltage, 60 times the current, or a mix of both (e.g. double the voltage and 30 times the current). High current means more power loss in the cable, bigger cables, and a host of other issues. High voltage is difficult to switch (especially DC) and requires a low more insulation. The company cites its application being in the 1-15 minute cycle time and clearly indicates that Li-Ion holds the 15 min+ range. This means that you can't really take the recharge frequencies associated with Li-Ion batteries and apply the 50,000 cycles. Where these batteries are used, you are not going to be recharging once every day or so like an EV. They are going to need to be recharged regularly throughout each day, meaning you are going to burn through the 50,000 cycles very quickly compared to Li-Ion. I'm sure these devices will have many useful applications. For the foreseeable future, I don't think EVs are one of them.
Yes, I saw an interview and facilities tour with their CEO at least a year ago, possibly three years ago. At that time they were only working on super-capacitors as I recall. They're in Lithuania I think.
Hey, the production is in Germany, but Company was founded in Estonia and HC are still sitting there, they actually building a new fabrication site right now for scaling up
Happy working birthday Sam! I can see this battery used in grid applications at substations to stabilize localities Also this could be used in ignition coils in ice cars for improved combustion
Happy Birthday Sam... Congratulations. You are doing a fantastic job. I watch all your videos and Thank you for your struggle to educate the masses of the importance of electric vehicles to leave a better world for the generations to come.
The capacitor has about a 1/3 the energy density of a lithium battery. On the other hand has a power density that is 10x or more then lithium. It is probably for areas that lithium falls short. Where fast charge and discharge are necessary. There may be use casses where both batteries could be used simultaneously.
Depending on which lithium chemistry you pick to compare ? There are plenty of lithium cells rated for 50+ “C” discharge that can exceed that 10kW/kg metric ..and Others with multiples of that capability !! ( ask the F1 teams )
Of all the Tesla/EV videos I enjoy yours the most !! I watch several. Particularly your honest presentation and objective informational topics. Thanks Sam, keep up the great work.
Supercapacitors have been around for decades. These can be charged very quickly, but fast only with high losses. I hope that they succeed in ultra-fast charging without high IxR losses. To date they are used in a very limited range of applications. I’m a scientist and electronic engineer.
Even in its current avatar, these 'Super batteries' are basically super capacitors that discharge slower than typical capacitors which give out the stored energy in a burst. With a discharge time of less than 30 minutes they are not going to replace EV batteries anytime soon.
Surely that would depend on the number of units and the discharge management. If you discharged on a rotation you could have many hours of driving couldn’t you? battery management systems already spread the usage to reduce total cycle times so this should be possible.
Happy birthday, Sam. Glad you’re pushing this technology. I ordered the standard range F-150 Lightning to add the SKELETON system. Looking forward. Thanks again!
At last the long wait is over, the battery I have been dreaming of has become a reality, Hey Sam, thanks , this is the technological breakthrough that will change the future of humanity
🎉Happy Birthday Sam! 🎉We love you and your channel! ❤️ Keep the amazing content coming!! No one else is close to sharing SO MUCH EV specific information. The other guys must be under a rock
In an EV, the role of an ultra capacitor would be to provide the energy required for short, intense demand such as when merging or passing. For constant use as in highway driving, power would come from the vehicles batteries, not the UC devices.
Current batteries are already sufficient for merging and passing. Unless these supercaps have a higher energy density by weight, I don't see them making their way into EV's.
You are missing the point. Ultra capacitors have huge energy density, far in excess of even Tesla batteries. The unsurpassed Tesla acceleration requires a very rapid dump of a lot of power. This obviously can be done with the current design, but continued discharging like that is not all that good for the battery pack. Users want range more than power. The marketplace shows that to us. So if a bank of UCs could provide power for rapid acceleration, then the manufacturer would have options. Less batteries for lower weight, more UCs for rapid power requirements, extending range. This latter is accomplished by substituting UCs for batteries to handle passing etc.
@@amazeddude1780 wrong !! a common mistake is confusing energy with power... UC has only a fraction of "energy density" of lithium batteries which is watt-hours/kg, but has many times more "power density" which is watts/kg... so you can not store a useful amount of energy on UC's, thus has no use in EV's... even for rapid acceleration... if properly designed lithium batteries can give any amount of peak power and absorb most of the regenerative energy an EV could produce...
Happy Birthday Sam! I hope you had an outstanding day. I love your channel and all the EV news. You are a wealth of information and I appreciate the hard work you put in creating this content.
Happy birthday from me too. Hey what an awesome revelation on your 41’st. If this is even partially true it is a great step on the way. I remember in the first book I consumed over and over about Elon it said he was seriously working on Supercapacitors and ultracapacitors before he found out how good Li batteries had got.
There seems to be some confusion in this video about the difference between power density and energy density. This "battery" is essentially an ultra capacitor. That means it can deliver a high amount of power (watts) for its weight, but has low storage capacity (watt hours). According to an article on PV Magazine published earlier this month it only has a energy density of 65 Wh/kg. Not only is this nowhere near the energy density needed for aircraft, it pales in comparison to the energy density of most EV battery packs. For example, the Tesla Model 3 has a energy density of 272-296 Wh/kg.
Happy Birthday Sam! A $billion investment from Shell is a pittance for them. Here in California the state is suing oil companies for excess profits. Hopefully any monies collected can be invested in in EV and virtual grid schemes.
It's a combination of battery and supercapcitor, a hybrid system for applications up to 30 minutes. Impresive that they managed to slow the discharge rate down to 30 minutes, but currently no good for BEV's. Except for regen applications. Useful in hybrids though.
I hope this is an actual product that can be refined to the point of being viable. The CEO of skeleton certainly was a surprise to see , I have underwear that looks older than he does. He must be a very bright young man. Let’s hope they succeed. And happy birthday to you Sam , another great video
sandyt: It's amazing how age works with productivity in science / math. And also, often in things like chess or go. Sometimes a lifetime of experience isn't worth as much as a really, really, intense and agile brain, but of course, lots of experience often works out very well. In things like serious science, math, tech, etc, sometimes young people do very very well with their amazing quickness and energy. I was in computer software my whole career (late high school through my work life). I did my best work (of various types) from age 20 to age 35. Part of my decline after 35 was being treated badly by IBM (like they did employees in general from the Gerstner era on), so big lack of incentive -- but part of it was just less energy, less speed of thinking, less dynamic thinking, willingness to take big risks and look dumb if I was wrong, etc. As I age and follow science and math and progress generally, with all that's messed up about the world, it's really wonderful to see how lots of bright young people continue to do totally AMAZING things. Even when thing X doesn't go commercial, and they get back up and try something else (which happened to me in software repeatedly, but under age 35 I didn't know what the word "quit" meant).
@@rogergeyer9851 that is a very interesting insight and an incredibly candid assessment of all of our strengths and frailties. I have stayed interested in technology and learning everything that I could absorb my entire life, but in the last 5 to 10 years with the explosion of TH-cam and Internet access, I realize how beneficial this would’ve been earlier in my life. A great deal of My work is still physical in nature and I understand your point about being somewhat more subdued as we age. Still at past 70 I work with young men that very seldom can keep up with me because they haven’t grown up working as we did, and even where they are able to work really hard they don’t necessarily work smart, a shortcoming that we all encounter in our youth. It will be interesting to see what the next 10 years brings about. In some regards I’m hopeful and still I have a great deal of trepidation. Artificial intelligence and misuse of its potential concerns me greatly although there’s very little to nothing that I can do about it. It does make me concerned for the future of my grandchildren. But again this is beyond my control as well
Happy Birthday Sam. this is not a real battery, this is a super capacitor. They are a long way from replacing the traditional battery as they are nowhere near as powerful enough. However if you could get a super capacitor that could power a car for 10-20 miles with the regenerative braking system in a big city you could drive almost indefinably without touching the battery.
The fact that Shell seems to go in massively raises a lot of suspicion. Sofar they have shown not to be interested in new energy sources and storage. They have only been aiming on continuing their dirty business.
Only a difference in scale: capacitors use ions (atoms with an electron too much or less), batteries: electrons. Yeah...capacitors are too coarse and never will do the trick. I want to see subneutronic and subprotonic batteries instead...the lower you go the higher the capacity will be.
@@bobisnamemy well if the battery works as advertised it will surely be game changing for the storage industry (think of renewable energy storage). If I had the cash, I would invest a lot in that company because they are about to get very big if they market their products right.
The Energy density of the Super Battery is 65Wh/kg. Super Batteries might find use in a) hybrids, b) FCEVs or c) highly specialised transport applications. In an EV, however, while a small Super Battery pack might serve to complement an energy dense primary battery pack - by lifting the rate of energy recovery from regen braking owing to the amazing power density and charging rate of the ultracapacitor-like SB cells - there is no way that Super Batteries can simply replace NCM, LFP or other energy dense batteries as the main EV battery (not yet anyway).
Happy Birthday! Loving what you do is the best. It is easy to see your enthusiasm. If this super battery is true, then sign me up. I want an EV now for sure.
Hey thanks for giving us really believable info. When it comes from one of your calls, I understand you have done the legwork to protect your reputation and aren’t just giving stupid headlines for clicks. Thanks again.
Capacitors have a rapid discharge rate... even when not in use. There was some kind of Zen or Zenny Car Company out of Canada that made a small capacitor based ev, I guess you would call it. Look it up. It's older then you think.
What I understand is that these supercapacitors can play a key role in providing instantaneous power at a level far beyond that which can be delivered by a battery - they can charge very fast and discharge very fast - a great application would be adding it to a grid scale battery system to make the system more capable at handling instantaneous demand spikes.
Yeah they’re great for quick discharge and recharge, essentially if you have 2 capacitors in the front hubs then you could in theory do most short journeys without battery use
Happy Birthday Sam! Love your channel - Love how you're sussing out such great EV and Batt info!🎯 Congrats on your Birthday❣❣ and yet another fascinating focus on innovation🎯
One must differentiate between supercapacitor and battery cell. Supercapacitor stores energy in dielectric between two conducting plate. Theoretically there is no limit on the storage capacity or rate of charge. In practice there is limit on the breakdown voltage of the dielectric which limit the voltage of supercapacitor can handle. Also once all the molecules in the dielectric are aligned it cannot be charged any more. Hence more capacity require more dielectric material. Baterry cell stores energy chemically in higher quantum state. Hence there is a limit on the emf of battery cell. For more capacity require more cathode and anode material.
Happy bday Sam! Keep these videos coming, I fully support you. This is actually misleading. Please let's not confuse supercapacitors with batteries: 2 completely different things. Supercaps: good to store/deliver energy in very short time. Batteries: meant to store/deliver very high amount of energy but much slower compared to super caps. 2 different applications. This company is using misleading terminology: a (super) battery with low capacity to me is not a battery, but... a capacitor. They highlight and compare the amazing specs, but not talk much about the capacity. Now you know why.
The energy density on their superbattery brochure (which is on their website) is actually only claiming 65Wh/kg while that's a great advance over ultra capacitors, it's still nowhere near the energy density needed for BEVs. Also, curiously they don't seem to mention a thing about the charge/discharge efficiency nor any details regarding self discharge rates.
Even if it can absorb energy that fast, good luck finding a source that could deliver it. You'd have to hook up directly to a power plant to charge it. The average EV battery is 40 kwh. To charge it in 60 seconds, you would need to deliver 40,000 watts x 60 minutes/hr which is 2.4 Megawatts.
That was my thought too. When you think of the number of vehicles that would be on charge at anyone time it would cause a continuous peak load. A load that would make airconditioners peak loading insignificant. It also gives some visualisation of the amount of energy needed in total to supply vehicle energy needs.
the charge system they mention in the press release for the shell 400kWh battery is 24MW. Most likely it's just a big battery with a DC/DC. then the battery is charged slowly by a generator or some kind while the truck is doing its thing.
@@ulwen Interesting! OK for one but to offer 1 minute charge time to many at the same time. The numbers get very large and expensive. Both in money and energy to build and operate such a system.
@@longsighted compared to the cost of a mine it's peanuts. Anyway applications where you need lots of power 15 to 30 minutes is likely to be industrial or infrastructure and they have the budget if it solves a problem for them. Either way it covers an area between ultracaps and lithium batteries which doesn't have a great solution at the moment. Ultracaps are too big and only works well up to 60s. Lithium batteries that can provide the power required for the application also come with way more energy than is required and a low cycle life.
Hey Sam. Happy BDay!
As you said, it's 10x the energy density of the current capacitors, NOT 10x the current litium battery density.
I'm glad someone is trying to improve batteries also from the capacitors starting point. We do really need all hands on deck!
Absolutely, this is a MAJOR difference.
@@castortoutnu I heard him say that as well. Sounds almost as good as lithium and better chargeability and lifespan. That could make it superior like the advantages of LithiumIron. in the reliability department,
We do
Happy Birthday Sam! Thank you for doing what you love and sharing it with us! Stay strong.
Thank you so much!
Energy density is 65 Wh/kg, from their specs. Main use case here is regenerative braking (for hybrid or even fully electric cars). It has high power density which means you can store all of deceleration energy as you are not limited by input power. Their claim is 10kW/kg, which means 10kg battery has 100kW power rating which is same as your engine. Also having 50k cycles makes is perfect for this accelerate/decelerate work regiment.
Using your numbers…
That 10kg, 100kW battery will store 650Wh of energy ?
…and supply that 100kW for approx 23 seconds !
I am sure you are aware that Lithium batteries can far exceed those claimed metrics, as has been shown multiple times.
The only tangible benefit with this new cell is its life cycles claim which has yet to be proven and may not be a big sell😊ing point anyway depending on cost comparasons, and if a battery that will last more than 10 years is needed ?
Isnt it great that you know the world isn't as bad as you thought! We are downtrodden with negative news and we devolope a negative view of life. Wh we n i lost my house in Paradise fire i was shown so much love it nade me realize this. We dont see the world as it really is. There is more love than you know. We need to sread this. By the way happy birthday! You are in your prime! Im 63. And i see greatvthings coming in the near future for humanity. That is if we dont self destruct. I have a feeling its a repeating story we must break. We can. Life is up to us.we must not let apathy destroy us like so many times before.
@@weinisable Yes 23 seconds for full charge/discharge with max power. And how long does it take to start/stop a vehicle? I'll reiterate that this is best used for regenerative braking not as li-ion replacement technology. And these metrics are coming from their product brochure not some newspaper clip. I know that any company data must be taken with grain of salt, but this is not vaporware startup company they already have ultracapacitor products range and it seems battery have taken some certification testing. I can imagine this tech to be very beneficial in truck and bus vehicles which require high power engines.
interestingly the 400kWh battery the shell trucks will use weighs about 6 tonnes.
and it'll use a 24MW charger to fill up in 90s. that's about 4kW/kg.
50.000 cycles gives a lifetime of about 1000 days assuming these machines run 24/7.
@@weinisable The low cost might make it great for energy storage, and it has a very fast charge up capacity. Great for smoothing out energy availability especially since it's built to charge and discharge maybe lasting a century performing that function. So.. a 200kg powerwall but it's lifecycle would be a lot longer and cost maybe a tenth as much. In a Basement such a backup could be a nice thing to have to balance energy distribution and increase reliability of the powergrid, a disruption wouldn't cause an immediate blackout. It woudl also be a good way to complement wind and solarpower downsides. And droppoing the massive need for Lithium in todays competition is also a huge benefit.
We love you Electric Viking. Happy birthday 🎉🎂❤
your videos are a breath of fresh air, no crazy yelling and camera angles just chill and entertaining
and full of BS
Happy Birthday, Viking! You are awesome and we love you! 🥰❤
Greetings Mr. Popescu ! I was at Petro Consultants Geneva back in 95 with D. Morariu and Theo.
Best regards Daniel Raas
Thank you! 🤗
Happy Birthday Sam! Great videos - great content - as always! Even if the Energy density of the Skeleton battery is only comparable to Lithium Ion - the fast charge times and high lifecycle should make it more than competitive. Hoping you cross the 100,000 subscriber mark soon!
Happy Birthday Sam! Youre kicking butt at 41! Thank you for all you do. You have a great channel and put out so much good information.
Thank You!
Hi Sam.
I also just turned 41.
Happy birthday mate and thanks for doing what you do 👍👍
Hey, thanks!
HI! At one point in the video, you stated that this is good for short-term storage, something on the order of a half hour or so. That makes sense, even at 10X the energy density of more conventional supercapacitors.
That's still far too low for EV application as the main battery pack. They will make it into EVs as an auxiliary storage medium to take more efficient quick charging from regenerative braking and for sudden bursts of rapid acceleration.
Super Battery are amazing with superhigh Power density, excelent for buses charging a minute at every stop or heavy trucks working short distances. But energy density is 65W/Kg so they are not for planes, maybe cars should have a few to capture 90% brake regen
41 just a babe. Happy Birthday man, you will live long enough to see a lot of this tech come of age.
Thank You!
Well done! A bonus "Game changing battery breakthrough" for the month of October. At this rate I'll have to get another filing cabinet to keep them all in.
File them in the garbage bin since none of them are actually ground breaking.
Happy Birthday - A capacitor (or condenser in the UK) is a fundamentally different component than a battery. A Capacitor stores electrical energy by a static charge between two plates. Its energy density depends on how larger the plates are and how close they are together. This technology has improved to seemingly unbelievable performance levels in the "super capacitor" compared to say 30 years ago, just like batteries. Batteries are electro-chemical where electric energy is stored or discharged. But so far modern high performance batteries like Lithium Phosphate have greater energy density than Super capacitors and will probably continue to do so. But a extremely high energy density supercapacitor is an ideal compliment to a high energy battery assembly since it can do some things much better than batteries
1) Blazingly high power and fast discharge far beyond what a battery can accomplish
2) Many such very high power very fast charge and discharge cycles typically up to about 1 million (1x10E+6) cycles
3) High performance over a very wide temperature range - operating range typically +65 degrees Celsius to -40 degrees Celsius
4) They can be make with relatively common and benign materials no exotic or rare earth elements required and are relatively light weight.
A complementary supercapacitor can take on the very high surge demands made on a battery assembly to protect and extend its life and also help out at temperature extremes. Together with the high performance battery assembly it can take on tough real world applications that would kill battery assemblies, the supercapacitor part just has to get to a high enough energy density, a sizable fraction of the battery energy density to scale to a practical compatible size.
But probably best is to combine the construction of a supercapacitor within a battery which has been a research holy grail. With the recent advances in nanotechnology I believe this is what SKELETON Technologies may have has finally pulled off. It could potentially be a monumental advance a true disruptive game changer. In Conclusion when it comes to Skeleton's Technologies newest advance, in this electrical engineers humble experience, watch this space very closely!
Another major difference with capacitors (hardly ever discussed) is that their voltage output changes enormously, depending on the energy they are holding. So it's an extra difficulty for the power electronics, to give out power to the motors, while the capacitor 'battery' voltage crashes down from say 400 to 50 ....
Still a year younger than our youngest P.M. for 200yrs, here in the UK.
Congratulations, Sam. I think your contribution will prove more influential than Richy Sunak, or any modern P.M.
Happy birthday Sam from far North Queensland. Today was also my birthday, 69 years young 😊. Excellent videos. Keep up the good work.
Awesome! Thank you!
firstly happy birthday. . this could be a game changer for the ev market and home storage. great video. keep smiling everyone
Impressive! But we will still need to upgrade what is charging the battery. Would we need a 400 to 800 amp breaker box? Certainly exciting technology but there are definitely 2 sides to this. Would be super cool to have one on my house that buffers electrical storage ...
Happy Birthday Sam! Thanks for all your videos
I can see them being useful in the charging stations on the charger side, giving high discharge rates! Also potentially to allow a short stop time if integrated into the car Where it charges the battery over 15 min while you are driving!
Sam,
First, Happy Birthday.
I just looked at their brochure. They are claiming an energy density of only 65kWh/kg. Sorry, but the harsh reality is that these are not going to replace EV batteries until this is radically increased.
When it comes to charging speed, you need to remember that the energy that needs to be delivered during charging doesn't really change (aside from battery efficiency) depending on the storage type. Put simply, to charge a storage device in 60 sec requires 60 times more power than pumping the same amount of energy in over a period of an hour. That means either 60 times the voltage, 60 times the current, or a mix of both (e.g. double the voltage and 30 times the current). High current means more power loss in the cable, bigger cables, and a host of other issues. High voltage is difficult to switch (especially DC) and requires a low more insulation.
The company cites its application being in the 1-15 minute cycle time and clearly indicates that Li-Ion holds the 15 min+ range. This means that you can't really take the recharge frequencies associated with Li-Ion batteries and apply the 50,000 cycles. Where these batteries are used, you are not going to be recharging once every day or so like an EV. They are going to need to be recharged regularly throughout each day, meaning you are going to burn through the 50,000 cycles very quickly compared to Li-Ion.
I'm sure these devices will have many useful applications. For the foreseeable future, I don't think EVs are one of them.
This is very insightful thanks!
Happy Birthday Sam
Happy Birthday Young Fella!
Happy Birthday Sam! 🎉🎉 🤠🎊🎊🎶🎶🕺
Happy Birthday, Sam. Many Happy Returns.
Happy Birthday mate,
1 of all these "gamechangers" is bound to work. 😁👍
Thanks Mate
Fellow '81er here. Happy Birthday!
Happy birthday Sam 🎂 🥳 🎉 🎈 🎁 🎊 from the other side of the globe 🌎. Love your work, consistency and diligence.
Yes, I saw an interview and facilities tour with their CEO at least a year ago, possibly three years ago. At that time they were only working on super-capacitors as I recall. They're in Lithuania I think.
German iirc 🤔
Hey, the production is in Germany, but Company was founded in Estonia and HC are still sitting there, they actually building a new fabrication site right now for scaling up
@@mayh.7316 OK, geographically ignorant American here. I confused Estonia with Lithuania. Thanks for cluing me in.
Happy working birthday Sam!
I can see this battery used in grid applications at substations to stabilize localities
Also this could be used in ignition coils in ice cars for improved combustion
ICE cars? What? Who cares? They're on their way OUT.
Happy Birthday Sam... Congratulations. You are doing a
fantastic job. I watch all your videos
and Thank you for your struggle to educate the masses of the importance of electric vehicles to leave a better world for the generations to come.
Thank you so much!
The capacitor has about a 1/3 the energy density of a lithium battery. On the other hand has a power density that is 10x or more then lithium. It is probably for areas that lithium falls short. Where fast charge and discharge are necessary. There may be use casses where both batteries could be used simultaneously.
Depending on which lithium chemistry you pick to compare ?
There are plenty of lithium cells rated for 50+ “C” discharge that can exceed that 10kW/kg metric
..and Others with multiples of that capability !! ( ask the F1 teams )
What is the difference between power density and energy density?
@@ferventheat power density has more to do with charge speed and discharge speed.
Wrong. It has less than 1/5th the energy density per volume.
Happy Birthday Sam. Wish you ever success.
Thank You!
Of all the Tesla/EV videos I enjoy yours the most !! I watch several. Particularly your honest presentation and objective informational topics. Thanks Sam, keep up the great work.
Thanks 👍
Happy Birthday Sam!
Thank You!
Happy Birthday EV - Thanks for all you do.
Happy Birthday Electric Viking - in an odd switch you are giving all of us your Birthday Gift - Thank you!
Supercapacitors have been around for decades. These can be charged very quickly, but fast only with high losses. I hope that they succeed in ultra-fast charging without high IxR losses. To date they are used in a very limited range of applications. I’m a scientist and electronic engineer.
Happy birthday Sam! Amazing battery tech. I can only Imagine how much cleaner our lives will be once(and if) it's adopted.
it wont be adopted because the powers that be around the world want to end personal transportation.
Happy birthday Sam! You are a gift to us, however. Thank you.
Even in its current avatar, these 'Super batteries' are basically super capacitors that discharge slower than typical capacitors which give out the stored energy in a burst. With a discharge time of less than 30 minutes they are not going to replace EV batteries anytime soon.
Surely that would depend on the number of units and the discharge management. If you discharged on a rotation you could have many hours of driving couldn’t you? battery management systems already spread the usage to reduce total cycle times so this should be possible.
Maybe but it probably wouldnt hold charge overnight which is kinda important.
@@AL-wv8jx ah yes I forgot they tend to lose charge on their own.
@@davidshipp623 that's clever man
@@AL-wv8jxyeah , maybe that's a problem a grid storage , but for transportion we can charge for 15 seconds and go
Happy Birthday EV!!
Happy Birthday from Raleigh North Carolina USA
Thank You!
Happy birthday, Sam. Glad you’re pushing this technology. I ordered the standard range F-150 Lightning to add the SKELETON system. Looking forward. Thanks again!
Thank You!
Happy Birthday mate! Please take care of yourself... You seem extremely tired!.. Take a vacation.
Happy Birthday Sam.
Love watching your videos. Keep up the great work.
At last the long wait is over, the battery I have been dreaming of has become a reality, Hey Sam, thanks , this is the technological breakthrough that will change the future of humanity
Happy Birthday Sam Best wishes
Thank You!
Happy birthday SAm
Proud to be an Australian
Fully charged went to their facilities a few years ago. Looked at the capacitor products.
Cant wait to actually see you one a EV.. I owned a model 3, but sold it last week.. Will own another, when i can !
Happy Birthday Sam from Illinois.
Thanks
🎉Happy Birthday Sam! 🎉We love you and your channel! ❤️ Keep the amazing content coming!! No one else is close to sharing SO MUCH EV specific information. The other guys must be under a rock
Thank you so much!!
In an EV, the role of an ultra capacitor would be to provide the energy required for short, intense demand such as when merging or passing. For constant use as in highway driving, power would come from the vehicles batteries, not the UC devices.
Current batteries are already sufficient for merging and passing. Unless these supercaps have a higher energy density by weight, I don't see them making their way into EV's.
Drive a Tesla … it already has super power to pass anyone at any time or any place.
You are missing the point. Ultra capacitors have huge energy density, far in excess of even Tesla batteries. The unsurpassed Tesla acceleration requires a very rapid dump of a lot of power. This obviously can be done with the current design, but continued discharging like that is not all that good for the battery pack. Users want range more than power. The marketplace shows that to us. So if a bank of UCs could provide power for rapid acceleration, then the manufacturer would have options. Less batteries for lower weight, more UCs for rapid power requirements, extending range. This latter is accomplished by substituting UCs for batteries to handle passing etc.
@@amazeddude1780 wrong !! a common mistake is confusing energy with power... UC has only a fraction of "energy density" of lithium batteries which is watt-hours/kg, but has many times more "power density" which is watts/kg... so you can not store a useful amount of energy on UC's, thus has no use in EV's... even for rapid acceleration... if properly designed lithium batteries can give any amount of peak power and absorb most of the regenerative energy an EV could produce...
Well happy birthday!!!
Happy Birthday from Victoria British Columbia Canada, Good episode.
Thank You!
Happy Birthday Sam... 👍
Happy Birthday Sam! I hope you had an outstanding day. I love your channel and all the EV news. You are a wealth of information and I appreciate the hard work you put in creating this content.
Thanks so much!
Happy birthday 🎂 🥳 Mr Viking. ✌️👏
Thank You!
Happy Electric Birthday Viking :)
Thank You!
Happy Birthday young fella!
Thank You!
Happy Birthday Sam!
Watch you every day, thank you for your content.
Thank You!
Happy birthday from me too. Hey what an awesome revelation on your 41’st. If this is even partially true it is a great step on the way. I remember in the first book I consumed over and over about Elon it said he was seriously working on Supercapacitors and ultracapacitors before he found out how good Li batteries had got.
There seems to be some confusion in this video about the difference between power density and energy density. This "battery" is essentially an ultra capacitor. That means it can deliver a high amount of power (watts) for its weight, but has low storage capacity (watt hours). According to an article on PV Magazine published earlier this month it only has a energy density of 65 Wh/kg. Not only is this nowhere near the energy density needed for aircraft, it pales in comparison to the energy density of most EV battery packs. For example, the Tesla Model 3 has a energy density of 272-296 Wh/kg.
Happy Birthday Sam! A $billion investment from Shell is a pittance for them. Here in California the state is suing oil companies for excess profits. Hopefully any monies collected can be invested in in EV and virtual grid schemes.
Excess profits? Who gets to say what excess means?
Exactly. And is Kali going to pay them for the years when oil was under 50$.
Idiot state.
Happy Birthday Sam. Really appreciate your content. Keep up the great work.
Thanks so much!
It's a combination of battery and supercapcitor, a hybrid system for applications up to 30 minutes.
Impresive that they managed to slow the discharge rate down to 30 minutes, but currently no good for BEV's. Except for regen applications.
Useful in hybrids though.
Happy Birthday my friend.
Happy 41!!
I hope this is an actual product that can be refined to the point of being viable. The CEO of skeleton certainly was a surprise to see , I have underwear that looks older than he does. He must be a very bright young man. Let’s hope they succeed. And happy birthday to you Sam , another great video
sandyt: It's amazing how age works with productivity in science / math. And also, often in things like chess or go. Sometimes a lifetime of experience isn't worth as much as a really, really, intense and agile brain, but of course, lots of experience often works out very well.
In things like serious science, math, tech, etc, sometimes young people do very very well with their amazing quickness and energy. I was in computer software my whole career (late high school through my work life). I did my best work (of various types) from age 20 to age 35.
Part of my decline after 35 was being treated badly by IBM (like they did employees in general from the Gerstner era on), so big lack of incentive -- but part of it was just less energy, less speed of thinking, less dynamic thinking, willingness to take big risks and look dumb if I was wrong, etc.
As I age and follow science and math and progress generally, with all that's messed up about the world, it's really wonderful to see how lots of bright young people continue to do totally AMAZING things. Even when thing X doesn't go commercial, and they get back up and try something else (which happened to me in software repeatedly, but under age 35 I didn't know what the word "quit" meant).
@@rogergeyer9851 that is a very interesting insight and an incredibly candid assessment of all of our strengths and frailties. I have stayed interested in technology and learning everything that I could absorb my entire life, but in the last 5 to 10 years with the explosion of TH-cam and Internet access, I realize how beneficial this would’ve been earlier in my life. A great deal of My work is still physical in nature and I understand your point about being somewhat more subdued as we age. Still at past 70 I work with young men that very seldom can keep up with me because they haven’t grown up working as we did, and even where they are able to work really hard they don’t necessarily work smart, a shortcoming that we all encounter in our youth. It will be interesting to see what the next 10 years brings about. In some regards I’m hopeful and still I have a great deal of trepidation. Artificial intelligence and misuse of its potential concerns me greatly although there’s very little to nothing that I can do about it. It does make me concerned for the future of my grandchildren. But again this is beyond my control as well
Happy birthday Viking
Happy Birthday Sam. this is not a real battery, this is a super capacitor. They are a long way from replacing the traditional battery as they are nowhere near as powerful enough. However if you could get a super capacitor that could power a car for 10-20 miles with the regenerative braking system in a big city you could drive almost indefinably without touching the battery.
If you would have read correctly, it is a mix between a battery and a super capacitor, they are trying to combine these two
Happy birthday . I wish to you the best in your life. Greetings from Hungary and thans the exelent videos.
Thank you so much 😀
The fact that Shell seems to go in massively raises a lot of suspicion.
Sofar they have shown not to be interested in new energy sources and storage.
They have only been aiming on continuing their dirty business.
I need ti listen to this one more time. Just to make sure that I heard what I think I heard!
Happy birthday Legend!
Happy Birthday my friend!
Happy belated birthday Sam 🔆🎁
What is the energy density? This is a capacitor, not a battery.
Came here to say that.
Only a difference in scale: capacitors use ions (atoms with an electron too much or less), batteries: electrons. Yeah...capacitors are too coarse and never will do the trick. I want to see subneutronic and subprotonic batteries instead...the lower you go the higher the capacity will be.
Only 65 Wh/kg. Not really a game changer.
@@bobisnamemy well if the battery works as advertised it will surely be game changing for the storage industry (think of renewable energy storage). If I had the cash, I would invest a lot in that company because they are about to get very big if they market their products right.
Also where can I buy it
Happy Birthday Viking.😀😁
Thanks Mate.
The Energy density of the Super Battery is 65Wh/kg. Super Batteries might find use in a) hybrids, b) FCEVs or c) highly specialised transport applications. In an EV, however, while a small Super Battery pack might serve to complement an energy dense primary battery pack - by lifting the rate of energy recovery from regen braking owing to the amazing power density and charging rate of the ultracapacitor-like SB cells - there is no way that Super Batteries can simply replace NCM, LFP or other energy dense batteries as the main EV battery (not yet anyway).
Happy Birthday! Loving what you do is the best. It is easy to see your enthusiasm.
If this super battery is true, then sign me up. I want an EV now for sure.
🎉Happy 🎉Day my good man. All Yours.
Hey thanks for giving us really believable info. When it comes from one of your calls, I understand you have done the legwork to protect your reputation and aren’t just giving stupid headlines for clicks. Thanks again.
Capacitors have a rapid discharge rate... even when not in use. There was some kind of Zen or Zenny Car Company out of Canada that made a small capacitor based ev, I guess you would call it. Look it up. It's older then you think.
Happy Birthday, young-timer 🍻
Thank You!
What I understand is that these supercapacitors can play a key role in providing instantaneous power at a level far beyond that which can be delivered by a battery - they can charge very fast and discharge very fast - a great application would be adding it to a grid scale battery system to make the system more capable at handling instantaneous demand spikes.
Yeah they’re great for quick discharge and recharge, essentially if you have 2 capacitors in the front hubs then you could in theory do most short journeys without battery use
yes. they already offer solutions for power grids.
Happy birthday young man 👍🍻
Thank You!
Happy birthday! I guess they are still expensive to produce. Shell could certainly help with that aspect.
Happy B’day Sam! Always watching your channel, love what you make
Happy Birthday Sam! Love your channel - Love how you're sussing out such great EV and Batt info!🎯 Congrats on your Birthday❣❣ and yet another fascinating focus on innovation🎯
One must differentiate between supercapacitor and battery cell.
Supercapacitor stores energy in dielectric between two conducting plate. Theoretically there is no limit on the storage capacity or rate of charge. In practice there is limit on the breakdown voltage of the dielectric which limit the voltage of supercapacitor can handle. Also once all the molecules in the dielectric are aligned it cannot be charged any more. Hence more capacity require more dielectric material.
Baterry cell stores energy chemically in higher quantum state. Hence there is a limit on the emf of battery cell. For more capacity require more cathode and anode material.
Happy birthday mate. Hope you have a great day with the fam. Chur
Thank You!
Happy Birthday, Sam!!
Happy bday Sam! Keep these videos coming, I fully support you. This is actually misleading. Please let's not confuse supercapacitors with batteries: 2 completely different things. Supercaps: good to store/deliver energy in very short time. Batteries: meant to store/deliver very high amount of energy but much slower compared to super caps. 2 different applications. This company is using misleading terminology: a (super) battery with low capacity to me is not a battery, but... a capacitor. They highlight and compare the amazing specs, but not talk much about the capacity. Now you know why.
The energy density on their superbattery brochure (which is on their website) is actually only claiming 65Wh/kg while that's a great advance over ultra capacitors, it's still nowhere near the energy density needed for BEVs. Also, curiously they don't seem to mention a thing about the charge/discharge efficiency nor any details regarding self discharge rates.
Ya mon.,
see my reply - Musk would not have missed this.
If their shit for real, Tesla would have bought them.
Happy birthday young man , have a great day.
Even if it can absorb energy that fast, good luck finding a source that could deliver it. You'd have to hook up directly to a power plant to charge it. The average EV battery is 40 kwh. To charge it in 60 seconds, you would need to deliver 40,000 watts x 60 minutes/hr which is 2.4 Megawatts.
That was my thought too. When you think of the number of vehicles that would be on charge at anyone time it would cause a continuous peak load. A load that would make airconditioners peak loading insignificant. It also gives some visualisation of the amount of energy needed in total to supply vehicle energy needs.
the charge system they mention in the press release for the shell 400kWh battery is 24MW. Most likely it's just a big battery with a DC/DC. then the battery is charged slowly by a generator or some kind while the truck is doing its thing.
@@ulwen Interesting! OK for one but to offer 1 minute charge time to many at the same time. The numbers get very large and expensive. Both in money and energy to build and operate such a system.
@@longsighted compared to the cost of a mine it's peanuts.
Anyway applications where you need lots of power 15 to 30 minutes is likely to be industrial or infrastructure and they have the budget if it solves a problem for them.
Either way it covers an area between ultracaps and lithium batteries which doesn't have a great solution at the moment. Ultracaps are too big and only works well up to 60s. Lithium batteries that can provide the power required for the application also come with way more energy than is required and a low cycle life.
Happy Happy birthday Sam 🎂.
Love from Türkiye 🇹🇷