I don't think it should be controversial to say you've had a good experience with Unity. One thing I noticed with online indie dev groups/communities is that there is too much emotion tied to companies/products/services. Using a software should be objective, not emotional.
Sorry to disagree. If you have an engine that is bloated, takes minutes to load and that may unexpectedly charge you to get more of your revenue, this frustration piles up....
I am still working on just making a game to put on steam first but am glad to hear consoles are worth looking into. I’ve always thought seeing my own game on PlayStation or Switch would be the wildest thing ever
Probably the first video on TH-cam documenting this experience. It's something we're looking to do at some point as well, but it's just so hush hush. Thanks!
There are some, you just have to dig. GDC "Your Indie Game on Console", Unity's multiplatform panel series on their Learn site, plus talks at Unite and various regional conferences. Conradical, OrangePixel, and a couple others have given similar retrospectives of their results on Steam vs each console, usually avoiding specific numbers, but still giving comparative experience. And of course the consoles themselves - XBox is probably best about putting info out explicitly for indies (in English), but there've been industry-group talks that touched on consoles either from developer-relations ppl, or from publishers & porting companies discussing the process in broad strokes.
I’d love some sort of ranking of consoles and engines, relating to the points you made here. Like, “if you aren’t so great at programming, maybe you might be okay porting to XBox, but I’d rethink PS5” or “If you are a bit restricted for money for a dev kit, and need to pick a platform you might want to focus on Switch” or “online multiplayer is probably the easiest on platform X but with engine Y it suddenly more difficult.” Nothing NDA-breaking, but some hints that would let indies know where to start looking would be great.
I'm working on my 2nd game, Doombreaker. I have learned so much in so many different areas. I think after this one iscomplete. I'll begin searching to work with a team. A dev team is the way forward.
I think you should make a video talking about which consoles you would recommend indie devs to try and port to. Maybe like a ranking system or something. I'm assuming there's stuff you can't disclose but maybe just your opinion on which console is the most worth it. Because I hadn't even heard of the Atari vcs until I watched your video. 😂
Before I even watch, I'll just say yes. Maybe just because I don't market my games much but steam has always been my worst platform by a large margin and porting to xbox / switch is fairly easy, PS is a bit more difficult but still manageable. If you do choose to port to consoles, make a re-usable framework for handling all the platform functions (trophies, cloud saves, PS activities etc), it cuts down my porting time by a huge margin now
Exactly! I've started to reuse a lot of my own code libraries, and it makes the building portion much easier. Now my biggest hurdle is just going through the publishing process.
Abstraction layers and preprocessor macros are the way :) Unity also allows for having your core code in its own library package, which is then referenced by your per-platform build packages. So besides code, you can have platform-specific assets or prefabs. Haven't tried out the new Build Profiles or changes to Project Settings yet, but I imagine those should only make it easier.
You could see the option of releasing 2 extract games to steam instead of releasing the same games to console as 2 extra roles of the dice. One of those extra games might be the one that goes viral... I don't really know, but that's how I'd think about it.
Both my games are very different from one another, but I think my recent console launches make it too early to tell. B&D outperformed TBNT on Steam by a lot. I think local multiplayer games are a hard sell there
Hey, the developer John from Biogun is looking to port a game, only he has more plans for DLC in the future, but every porter he talks to says that his game has to be the full package before it can be ported. It looks like he's not doing as well in his sales as he'd like, so he's willing to make that sacrifice. If you have the availability to give him advice, I'm sure he'd love to talk to you about porting. He's always active on his Biogun discord.
I think once you have a portfolio of ported games you're golden. Hope you're (eventually) getting some residuals instead of a fixed price. Also you get to look at commercial game sources, which for me would be the most exciting thing! Of course porting is mostly about system/renderer/input stuff, not gameplay, but it's still a nice learning experience. Do you still find some companies being secretive about porting and sharing their entire source code?
Yeah, it's a great skill for my toolbelt. I haven't sought out much source code stuff. I'm trying to go fast and not spend time on anything that's not necessary haha
As someone who has filled out iOS and Android store forms and uploaded builds what feels like a million times, it sure gets monotonous. Having scripts and tools that can automate some of that is great. But perhaps better, release on fewer platforms and small games that aren't expected to be updated regularly. The Animal Well dev mentioned on a podcast that one of his goals was to release a fully finished game and "never" update it - mimicking games of old before the Internet and easy distribution became possible.
Oh wow, never updating a game would be great haha. I’ve been launching on Steam first - because their patching process is so easy. Hoping that will decrease console patches. It’s worked pretty well so far
"Never update" is impossible though. Mobile does a rolling OS window - they only support a certain timeline of prior OS versions, and it moves forward each year. My understanding is that consoles are similar, in terms of SDK versions on a given specific system. Certainly, every game gets to a point where the patches & support aren't worth bothering with, but that's usually not in the first year.
@@mandisaw Yes, you're correct - that's why I put it in quotation marks. He was going more for how old games are experienced, where there's only one version of Super Mario that was and is the same for every player. Of course, even those games needed to be tweaked when ported to different systems, and today they need to be emulated. But they don't have that modern thing where there's a release version, then a 1.1 update with new content, a DLC release etc.
Porting to consoles is high on my list after I've released my game, you've been a big inspiration there with your other videos/interviews where you mentioned it. Curious: How do you handle branches, etc. - I heard it's basically impossible to have all platforms in a single branch? Also: Do you keep like a personal knowledge base / wiki with all the porting steps and information?
Yeah I heavily rely on separate branches. My wiki is in my head 😂 One thing that has helped me a ton is building robust scripts that account for each platform. Controller vibration, save data, etc. I don’t have to change them because they check which platform the game is running on
Hi, Make a video on this - How Often do you see your analytics - everyday , every month or couple of times in a single day ? I don't know but I kind of having this habit of watching the analytics every day and sometimes I feel that if it's bad for 1-2 days than I try to change screenshots of my game or trailers I don't know but I try to improve.. Is this happened to you too or I am alone ?
Honestly I want to see Windows on Arm succeed. I want to also see Windows Server on Arm succeed. Why? Because that's gonna push more enterprise toward Arm and that hopefully means we'll eventually see TrueNAS Scale available on ARM.
But given that a Unity Pro license will set you back 2200 USD yearly it seem like a huge risk for a first game. The pricing model of UE lends itself better to aspiring console developers don't you think?
Definitely 👍 Though some platforms give devs a Unity license, I think that might’ve changed recently. It’s a bummer that that’s a requirement for console porting
Thanks! My games have varied for how they perform on which platforms, but stay tuned for a podcast I’ll be posting either this week or next. I interviewed an indie dev that primarily focuses on PlayStation
@@ThomasStewartDev Yeah everyone so hush hush on numbers there. Regarding switch, will you at least disclose how much it sold with relation to other console platforms? I ask because I plan on seeing if I can port to the switch as well.
@@RohanDaDev Switch is the only platform that is pending release. I'm currently waiting for my build to pass QA testing, but it should be out soon. I recently found out the Spelunky dev put his sales figures into his book. That data is from 2016, but this is what Spelunky sold: Steam: 577k units PS3/4/Vita: 458k units XBox: 158k units
I love that you outline the cool factor of porting to consoles. I remember Godot's documentation on porting was basically, "don't do it! pay this company! goodbye!"
Yeah I saw that 😂 I know it’s getting easier. I think Nintendo announced a Godot SDK to make it easier. I’m excited to see where that engine goes in the future
@@ThomasStewartDev Have you ever looked into Phaser? Their documentation is extremely well done. Tons of labs with live examples that are linked to source code on GitHub.
Hello Thomas sir, I love your work and the games you build. But you know what I think people get bored just after 2 days The games are good but I think you need to get a idea a unique idea. I know you have a great experience but I just suggest you to take experience from other games and also give an hour to your idea also By the way keep going it's downfall but it's also the time for comeback so All the best.
Thanks! I agree that my 2 games are small and don't hold players' attention for very long. But my strategy is to learn the publishing process and prove that I can ship small games first. My next game will have a bigger scope - and hopefully be more fun too!
I have a pro license, and you need it for at least one of the consoles. But one or more of the other platforms will give you a pro license to build on their platform. I think that might’ve changed recently though
Man, having worked only as QA Lead for consoles, I can only imagine what may mean having to do all the code porting, setting up the kits, marketing, QA, etc, etc by yourself, that's such titanic effort!! Btw... did you say Atari VCS?? can you explain that? th-cam.com/video/cZuZKwVg4Qc/w-d-xo.html
That already exists :) UI/UX is an entire software subspecialty, both on the design & implementation sides. Problem is it tends to be undervalued in games, kind of like writing and sound design. But there are plenty of experienced folks out there, either working in large studios or freelancing.
@@mandisaw Yeah, I'm sure they exist, but they're not doing a very good job are they?-) I'm hopeful things will be better in the future but right now most UI/UXs are a hot mess. From weird layouts, laggy movement, too much stuff on screen, menus running at no-cap FPS (gpu fans crying), season pass commercials, epilectic flashing and animated blinking things. Games UI/UX as a business seems tough, since I haven't heard of any companies especially hiring for ground-up UI/UX design and most menus are thrown up together by the coders with some GFX from the artists. But it's a strange feeling when you get into a game and it's like have the developers ever tried to play their own game / move in their own menus :D
I've been (lazily) looking for an indie game project that needs full translation (English->Finnish only, sorry). Hopefully I'll get to do some translation work in the future, since I've only lately started playing with some older people that have very little idea about what's happening (skipping cutscenes, cannot fully understand item descriptions, etc.) in games since they're not that fluent in English.
I guess these days you could actually just ChatGTP the translation and the end result would be almost the same as in yesteryears games :D Only one company has done some solid translations (that I've encountered) and it's been... Sony 👍
Nice video, man. Personally, I think it would be better to focus on making more games for Steam and other PC platforms (such as GOG and Itch) rather than spending time on porting.
Have you considered working with a partner who is more on the artistic and design side of things? I know the goal is being solo game dev, but if you had someone you worked well with, it might be a way to maximize your efforts.
Yeah, that would be an ideal situation, but I haven't been actively looking. I think it would be hard to find a partner that I'm confident would at least double my games' revenues. But partnering with an artist is something I'd love to do
@ThomasStewartDev that makes sense. It would be cool if someone did a blackthornprod type video where they matched devs and artists :) I’m sure there’s plenty of people looking for collaborations
Consoles seem to sell those big AAA games alot maybe like top 20? Then the rest probably has a ceiling? Makes me think only small sized games are worth it because ud never make your money back with big games
Hi, I hope you're doing well! I wanted to check if you’re looking for a video editor and thumbnail designer for your TH-cam channel. I'd love to help enhance your content and visuals. Let me know if you're interested! Best regards,
I don't think it should be controversial to say you've had a good experience with Unity. One thing I noticed with online indie dev groups/communities is that there is too much emotion tied to companies/products/services. Using a software should be objective, not emotional.
Yeah for sure - I love Unity the product. And it seems like Unity the company is making really good reforms, so I’m hopeful
Sorry to disagree. If you have an engine that is bloated, takes minutes to load and that may unexpectedly charge you to get more of your revenue, this frustration piles up....
Thanks for this insight dude. Super helpful
Thank you 🙇♂️
Hope to see Mana Valley on console someday!
@@ThomasStewartDev Me too! Hopefully ported by someone else lol
Thanks for sharing! I'm loving these sorts of videos.
Thank you sir! I have lots of videos in the works, so more to come!
The knock on wood set my dog off 😅 great video as always mate, always good to hear the experience of other devs
Haha sorry about that 😂
Next video I'll be yelling out "Hey Siri, Alexa, Ok Google"
I am still working on just making a game to put on steam first but am glad to hear consoles are worth looking into. I’ve always thought seeing my own game on PlayStation or Switch would be the wildest thing ever
Great vid, Thomas!
Thank you Nicky! 💛
Probably the first video on TH-cam documenting this experience. It's something we're looking to do at some point as well, but it's just so hush hush. Thanks!
Yeah it’s hard to find any info until you sign NDAs!
I hate how secretive it is..
There are some, you just have to dig. GDC "Your Indie Game on Console", Unity's multiplatform panel series on their Learn site, plus talks at Unite and various regional conferences. Conradical, OrangePixel, and a couple others have given similar retrospectives of their results on Steam vs each console, usually avoiding specific numbers, but still giving comparative experience.
And of course the consoles themselves - XBox is probably best about putting info out explicitly for indies (in English), but there've been industry-group talks that touched on consoles either from developer-relations ppl, or from publishers & porting companies discussing the process in broad strokes.
I’d love some sort of ranking of consoles and engines, relating to the points you made here. Like, “if you aren’t so great at programming, maybe you might be okay porting to XBox, but I’d rethink PS5” or “If you are a bit restricted for money for a dev kit, and need to pick a platform you might want to focus on Switch” or “online multiplayer is probably the easiest on platform X but with engine Y it suddenly more difficult.” Nothing NDA-breaking, but some hints that would let indies know where to start looking would be great.
I'm working on my 2nd game, Doombreaker. I have learned so much in so many different areas. I think after this one iscomplete. I'll begin searching to work with a team. A dev team is the way forward.
Thanks a lot for the video. I'm about to start porting my game and this info was very valuable.
Awesome! I’m glad it helped
I appreciate the porting because I think tanks but no tanks is one of the best local co-op games on xbox.
Great insight into the behind the scenes work of a solo dev. Thank you!
Anytime! I’m trying to make the videos I wanted to watch 5 years ago
Pretty interesting video man. I hadn't even considered porting my game.
Thanks! It’s a (mostly) fun process 🙂
I think it's super cool you have ported to so many consoles!
Thank you! It’s really fun - especially since my office is filled with a bunch of consoles haha
I think you should make a video talking about which consoles you would recommend indie devs to try and port to. Maybe like a ranking system or something. I'm assuming there's stuff you can't disclose but maybe just your opinion on which console is the most worth it.
Because I hadn't even heard of the Atari vcs until I watched your video. 😂
Before I even watch, I'll just say yes. Maybe just because I don't market my games much but steam has always been my worst platform by a large margin and porting to xbox / switch is fairly easy, PS is a bit more difficult but still manageable.
If you do choose to port to consoles, make a re-usable framework for handling all the platform functions (trophies, cloud saves, PS activities etc), it cuts down my porting time by a huge margin now
Exactly! I've started to reuse a lot of my own code libraries, and it makes the building portion much easier.
Now my biggest hurdle is just going through the publishing process.
Abstraction layers and preprocessor macros are the way :) Unity also allows for having your core code in its own library package, which is then referenced by your per-platform build packages. So besides code, you can have platform-specific assets or prefabs. Haven't tried out the new Build Profiles or changes to Project Settings yet, but I imagine those should only make it easier.
Switch and Quest baby!
You could see the option of releasing 2 extract games to steam instead of releasing the same games to console as 2 extra roles of the dice. One of those extra games might be the one that goes viral... I don't really know, but that's how I'd think about it.
Yeah I think that’s a good analogy. Even if I just make them demos and see how people like it, it could save me a lot of time in the long run
@@ThomasStewartDev Yeah demos are interesting - although now the extra rolls of the dice comes at the cost of revenue.
How much of your console vs steam success would you attribute to the particular games being a better fit on console?
Both my games are very different from one another, but I think my recent console launches make it too early to tell. B&D outperformed TBNT on Steam by a lot. I think local multiplayer games are a hard sell there
@@ThomasStewartDev yeah that's kind of what I meant. One seems natural for console couch co-op. And Steam seems to love Townscaper-likes
Hey, the developer John from Biogun is looking to port a game, only he has more plans for DLC in the future, but every porter he talks to says that his game has to be the full package before it can be ported. It looks like he's not doing as well in his sales as he'd like, so he's willing to make that sacrifice. If you have the availability to give him advice, I'm sure he'd love to talk to you about porting. He's always active on his Biogun discord.
If you ever make trading cards for your steam games, let me know if it was worth the trouble. Feels like there is very little information around it.
That’s a good point. I hadn’t planned on it because I’m not the consumer demographic for those. Might be worth looking into though…
I think once you have a portfolio of ported games you're golden. Hope you're (eventually) getting some residuals instead of a fixed price. Also you get to look at commercial game sources, which for me would be the most exciting thing! Of course porting is mostly about system/renderer/input stuff, not gameplay, but it's still a nice learning experience. Do you still find some companies being secretive about porting and sharing their entire source code?
Yeah, it's a great skill for my toolbelt. I haven't sought out much source code stuff. I'm trying to go fast and not spend time on anything that's not necessary haha
I did so far games on:
PC, Web, Android, iOS, Linux, Switch, Quest, Open XR
As someone who has filled out iOS and Android store forms and uploaded builds what feels like a million times, it sure gets monotonous. Having scripts and tools that can automate some of that is great. But perhaps better, release on fewer platforms and small games that aren't expected to be updated regularly. The Animal Well dev mentioned on a podcast that one of his goals was to release a fully finished game and "never" update it - mimicking games of old before the Internet and easy distribution became possible.
Oh wow, never updating a game would be great haha. I’ve been launching on Steam first - because their patching process is so easy. Hoping that will decrease console patches. It’s worked pretty well so far
"Never update" is impossible though. Mobile does a rolling OS window - they only support a certain timeline of prior OS versions, and it moves forward each year. My understanding is that consoles are similar, in terms of SDK versions on a given specific system. Certainly, every game gets to a point where the patches & support aren't worth bothering with, but that's usually not in the first year.
@@mandisaw Yes, you're correct - that's why I put it in quotation marks. He was going more for how old games are experienced, where there's only one version of Super Mario that was and is the same for every player. Of course, even those games needed to be tweaked when ported to different systems, and today they need to be emulated. But they don't have that modern thing where there's a release version, then a 1.1 update with new content, a DLC release etc.
Lots of very useful advice here!
Thanks! Wish I could say more!
Porting to consoles is high on my list after I've released my game, you've been a big inspiration there with your other videos/interviews where you mentioned it. Curious: How do you handle branches, etc. - I heard it's basically impossible to have all platforms in a single branch? Also: Do you keep like a personal knowledge base / wiki with all the porting steps and information?
Yeah I heavily rely on separate branches. My wiki is in my head 😂
One thing that has helped me a ton is building robust scripts that account for each platform. Controller vibration, save data, etc. I don’t have to change them because they check which platform the game is running on
@@ThomasStewartDev It's nice you have a reliable head. I'll use a wiki then. 😂
Hi, Make a video on this -
How Often do you see your analytics - everyday , every month or couple of times in a single day ? I don't know but I kind of having this habit of watching the analytics every day and sometimes I feel that if it's bad for 1-2 days than I try to change screenshots of my game or trailers I don't know but I try to improve.. Is this happened to you too or I am alone ?
Honestly I want to see Windows on Arm succeed. I want to also see Windows Server on Arm succeed. Why? Because that's gonna push more enterprise toward Arm and that hopefully means we'll eventually see TrueNAS Scale available on ARM.
But given that a Unity Pro license will set you back 2200 USD yearly it seem like a huge risk for a first game. The pricing model of UE lends itself better to aspiring console developers don't you think?
Definitely 👍
Though some platforms give devs a Unity license, I think that might’ve changed recently.
It’s a bummer that that’s a requirement for console porting
With regards to Xbox vs Playstation, which one is more valuable to port to?
Your game might do numbers on switch I feel btw.
Thanks! My games have varied for how they perform on which platforms, but stay tuned for a podcast I’ll be posting either this week or next. I interviewed an indie dev that primarily focuses on PlayStation
@@ThomasStewartDev Yeah everyone so hush hush on numbers there. Regarding switch, will you at least disclose how much it sold with relation to other console platforms? I ask because I plan on seeing if I can port to the switch as well.
@@RohanDaDev Switch is the only platform that is pending release. I'm currently waiting for my build to pass QA testing, but it should be out soon.
I recently found out the Spelunky dev put his sales figures into his book. That data is from 2016, but this is what Spelunky sold:
Steam: 577k units
PS3/4/Vita: 458k units
XBox: 158k units
I love that you outline the cool factor of porting to consoles. I remember Godot's documentation on porting was basically, "don't do it! pay this company! goodbye!"
Yeah I saw that 😂
I know it’s getting easier. I think Nintendo announced a Godot SDK to make it easier. I’m excited to see where that engine goes in the future
@@ThomasStewartDev Have you ever looked into Phaser? Their documentation is extremely well done. Tons of labs with live examples that are linked to source code on GitHub.
How was it porting to VCS? They say it’s really easy. What was your experience?
Very easy - I think it’s pretty approachable as far as consoles go
@@ThomasStewartDev that’s good to hear. I’m hoping to get Karens and my next games on there.
Are there 3rd party services that can assist with porting? Are they costly? Just curious if you considered any.
Yeah there's a good handful of porting studios out there - it's just not cost effective for me (and I wanted to learn to do it myself)
@@ThomasStewartDev figured as much. Great video
Hello Thomas sir, I love your work and the games you build. But you know what I think people get bored just after 2 days The games are good but I think you need to get a idea a unique idea. I know you have a great experience but I just suggest you to take experience from other games and also give an hour to your idea also
By the way keep going it's downfall but it's also the time for comeback so All the best.
Thanks! I agree that my 2 games are small and don't hold players' attention for very long. But my strategy is to learn the publishing process and prove that I can ship small games first. My next game will have a bigger scope - and hopefully be more fun too!
@@ThomasStewartDev Yeah 👍
Hope for best 👍
did you need unity pro for this?
I have a pro license, and you need it for at least one of the consoles. But one or more of the other platforms will give you a pro license to build on their platform. I think that might’ve changed recently though
Man, having worked only as QA Lead for consoles, I can only imagine what may mean having to do all the code porting, setting up the kits, marketing, QA, etc, etc by yourself, that's such titanic effort!!
Btw... did you say Atari VCS?? can you explain that? th-cam.com/video/cZuZKwVg4Qc/w-d-xo.html
Oh yeah, it’s a lot of work haha 😅
The VCS is a fun little console. And the porting process was really easy too
@@ThomasStewartDev Respect!
Business idea I've had for years: Game UI design company. Because what the heck are we doing nowadays with UIs?
UX/UI was one of the most difficult aspects of my last project Bridges & Docks. I feel pretty good about how it turned out, but yeah it's not easy
That already exists :) UI/UX is an entire software subspecialty, both on the design & implementation sides. Problem is it tends to be undervalued in games, kind of like writing and sound design. But there are plenty of experienced folks out there, either working in large studios or freelancing.
@@mandisaw Yeah, I'm sure they exist, but they're not doing a very good job are they?-) I'm hopeful things will be better in the future but right now most UI/UXs are a hot mess. From weird layouts, laggy movement, too much stuff on screen, menus running at no-cap FPS (gpu fans crying), season pass commercials, epilectic flashing and animated blinking things. Games UI/UX as a business seems tough, since I haven't heard of any companies especially hiring for ground-up UI/UX design and most menus are thrown up together by the coders with some GFX from the artists. But it's a strange feeling when you get into a game and it's like have the developers ever tried to play their own game / move in their own menus :D
I've been (lazily) looking for an indie game project that needs full translation (English->Finnish only, sorry). Hopefully I'll get to do some translation work in the future, since I've only lately started playing with some older people that have very little idea about what's happening (skipping cutscenes, cannot fully understand item descriptions, etc.) in games since they're not that fluent in English.
I guess these days you could actually just ChatGTP the translation and the end result would be almost the same as in yesteryears games :D Only one company has done some solid translations (that I've encountered) and it's been... Sony 👍
Nice video, man. Personally, I think it would be better to focus on making more games for Steam and other PC platforms (such as GOG and Itch) rather than spending time on porting.
Yeah I can see why most people take that route. I’m definitely considering it
@@ThomasStewartDev wish you luck!
Have you considered working with a partner who is more on the artistic and design side of things? I know the goal is being solo game dev, but if you had someone you worked well with, it might be a way to maximize your efforts.
Yeah, that would be an ideal situation, but I haven't been actively looking. I think it would be hard to find a partner that I'm confident would at least double my games' revenues. But partnering with an artist is something I'd love to do
@ThomasStewartDev that makes sense. It would be cool if someone did a blackthornprod type video where they matched devs and artists :) I’m sure there’s plenty of people looking for collaborations
Consoles seem to sell those big AAA games alot maybe like top 20? Then the rest probably has a ceiling? Makes me think only small sized games are worth it because ud never make your money back with big games
Yeah idk - seems like the top 1% of games get 90% of the revenue
6 minutes? I've never been this early to a video accidentally before
😂😂 I’m aiming for regular uploads 5am Pacific, so we’ll see if I can keep up that schedule
Hi,
I hope you're doing well! I wanted to check if you’re looking for a video editor and thumbnail designer for your TH-cam channel. I'd love to help enhance your content and visuals.
Let me know if you're interested!
Best regards,