Exploring the Saga of Grombrindal, the White Dwarf! Lorebeards w/ Andy Law & Loremaster of Sotek
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- Join Andy Law & Loremaster of Sotek as they march stoically into the mountains of the Karaz Ankor in search of a legend. Myths dating back to the War of Vengeance tell of a mysterious Dwarf who appears just before or after a great battle or tragedy. Just who is this odd figure who's only defining features are a wizened expression and a glorious white beard? Be sure to tune in to find out!
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The dwarven retort: "You should have just died"
has an interesting interaction with the idea that Malekith was supposed to let himself be consumed by the flame of Asuryan before being reborn.
I can believe you lads went 3 hours detailing the many achievements of Snorri/Grombrindal's life and legacy and you forgot about that time he secured exportation/trading deal with Ronald Reagan back in the 80s, fully detailed back in the day on the pages of White Dwarf
I cant believe they didnt even mention his famous public awareness campaign in the 80s.
"Say no to drugs. Only elgi oathbreakers use crack, take some Bugmanns instead"
I'm sorry, for real?
@@Coerciveutopian White Dwarf #93, it is 100% real
@@therasslintheatre2960 Ooh, I might actually have that one. Thanks!
Legitimately I want a novel series similar to Gotrek and Felix, but Snorri and Malekith in their adventures of old.
On the subject of the Sigmar being the only human considered to be truly capable of keeping an oath, I would argue that there’s at least one other human to come close: Felix Jaeger.
He wavers almost constantly, but in the end, he’s right there with Gotrek as the world is ending, and he would have followed Gotrek into the Realm of Chaos itself if Gotrek hadn’t told him not to. That is an insane level of dedication to an oath that he swore 20 years previously while falling-down drunk, especially considering that Gotrek had already released him from that oath. By the end, Felix was there entirely by choice, even though it was an excruciating choice for him to make.
The fact that the End Time didn't have Grombrindal and Malekith kill each other is a shame.
A distant tangent, what would you think of the chaos dwarves pulling a necron? To give some theoretical context, the end times have come and Hashut attempts to abandon the chaos dwarves to save himself. The chaos dwarves, being both sensitive to this sort of thing and a bit vindictive, instead capture him in the greatest feat of demon smithing ever. They then fracture him apart and use the bit to power the god engines that sustain them into the age of sigmar.
I assumed Andy was born with a full beard.
Same, damn
Another certfied lore classic, glad to see ya both keeping up with this.
While the Time of Legends series from Black Library had so many issues, I think Gav Thorpe absolutely knocked it out of the park in describing the first interactions between the elves and dwarfs. He handled even better the relationship between Snorri and Malekith.
Snorri passing was a keystone turning point in the history of the Warhammer world. Not just the ending of the Dwarf Golden Age, but how much it broke Malekith and his eventual betrayal.
Disappointed I couldn't make it. Happy Easter to you guys.
Love that you guys let Mr Grombrindal get his time. Skal
2:05:09 "Elves beeing french in German, what do you do to the Bretonnians than?"
The answer is, we make them even more french.
I think I prefer the true nature of Grombribdal's relationship with Valaya to remain vague, because I think this is one of those cases where the question is more interesting than the answer.
I like how they handled it in Total War by stating that the rumor is "whispered in hushed tones"
This could be just me, and I know Sotek mentioning flashback moments do happen in the lore in novels and such, but I would love to see even more stories delving into Malekith and Snorri’s past fighting alongside one and another during the earlier times of the warhammer world. After the events of the Great Cataclysm and before Snorri’s eventual death.
I feel like their could be quite a few stories to tell ranging from the many less typical enemies they potentially had to fight across the Old World, see them learning and respecting the culture and myths of their peoples, and having Grombrindal simply be this father figure for Malekith as Andy mentions too which is something I never quite thought of and find very awesome imo.
Is there a potential story about Malekith deliberately breaking his oath because he WANTS to bring Snorri back? Both as a leader of the Dwarfs and as his old friend?
I’m not sure the angle of Malekith starting the War of the Beard because it was needed to fight chaos makes sense for me. Maybe that’s why he started the elf civil war, but by the time the sundering was over, he tried to tear down The Vortex in the hopes daemons would team up with him and allow him to be king of the elves and if reality fell into the aether, well, he probably wasn’t going to be king without tearing the vortex down anyways, so what does it matter if he dooms the world?
In my opinion he did start the war of vengeance because he had to fight chaos. He thought the world would be at risk if chaos were allowed to grow.
In the process of arguably doing the right thing he started a civil war and broke his oath by betraying the dwarfs.
Now the war was MASSIVE and lasted MANY years. Imo Malekith grew disillusioned and very bitter during that time as he got burned, his allies abandoned him, etc. At some point he embraced darkness (likely influenced by his mother) and becomes the dark lord we know by the end of the war.
I do hope they eventually do a lorebeards episode about the War of Vengeance in the future. Or other important conflicts in the lore. 😅
@@Mortarion-xt9wphe was already corrupted by the time he stood in the flames by the time the sundering ended he had completely fallen, the dark elves fighting caose after that was out of there survival they are not the dark elder the dark elves are basically a chaos faction just one that stands separate from the other caose factions. Malakith started the war of vengeance out of pure expediency to get the high elves off of his back
Thee White Dwarf.
Would Grombindal approve of the band “Wind Rose”?
They honor Dawi heritage. He approves.
Hello Sotek! really like listening to you guys chat about lore and total war etc. Was wondering if you guys would consider for a topic the "military history" of the warhammer races. Epic battles, tactics, geopolitical consequences etc etc. Obviously one stream would probably not be enough for everything, but maybe a couple of the real major battles, or your faves from certain races.
I'm probably never going to see an answer to that, but I do not have the 100+ dollars it would take to throw that down in the next Lorebeard, so here it goes :
I genuinly prefer AoS's first edition Dwarfes (let's call them Duardin) to the WHF's Dwarfes. And all the power to you for liking them, but I find them so one-dimensionnal. They keep oath, settle grudges or become ginger out of shame and that's IT. Because they're so stubbornly buried in their ways, it's practically impossible to write a "bad" Dwarf, and story about their stubborness leading them to atrocities are rare (disaster, more often, but still). Basically, I feel like they don't get to have a bad side because of their core-caracteristics.
For how much of a mess it was, 1st Edition of AoS choose to emphasises how much the Duardin can be affected by Greed, especially when they feel right about it. The Fyreslayers aren't just greedy, they're trying to bring their God back and gain power to survive with it. The Kharadron are greedy, but it made them so powerful, even after the fall of their empire. Those are interesting themes to navigate, especially when confronted with their oath-keeping nature.
Now, I'm not saying GW is the greatest at exploiting it, but I do believe AoS added a new layer of complexity to the Duardin, that was missing in Fantasy.
On the confrontation, perhaps a better ending would have been the two of them grappling with the dilemma they face, with someone else interfering for the final resolution.
This could be physical aka a supporter of one of them attacking, or perhaps diplomatically, Karl Franz suggesting Malekith offer his head after the battle, or for Makekith to resolve some other grudge like the chaos dwarfs.
First fantastic stream, love the white dwarf.
Second, slightly off topic, im going to come out and say it, the dark elves need a rewrite or GW has to commit to Malerion being a super villain.
Right now there are two Malerions, the fallen angel outlined in the suddering books, and the phycopath detailed in other places. The gap in morality/personality between these two is so vast it honestly impossible for me to believe they are the same character.
Malarion, the fallen angel, is not a character that would have started the war of vengeance, taken advantage of it sure, start it no. Malerion, the power hungry lunatic, absolutely would.
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43:11 important part
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1:02:30 1:06:40 mortality
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1:29:49 you should die
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2:37:55 Endtimes
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1:42:53 how to put him in rpg
1:50:38 dawi-zharr
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1:58:57 2:03:10 Gazul
2:03:24 Cathayan
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2:06:26 Duardin
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2:14:25 skitgit da black gobbo
2:16:04 siblings
2:17:07 2:20:07 2:25:18 2:28:07 legendary items
2:31:49 AoS
2:35:04 total war
2:35:39 2:35:54 Hashut
2:36:55 kin-slaying
2:43:15 belegar
2:45:58 slayer
2:47:24 2:51:08 characters
2:49:30 Alith Anar
2:52:00 is he undead?
2:53:33 other races
2:55:08 chaos or greenskins?
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2:57:46 kill malekith-malerion?
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3:02:28 tf?!
3:05:02 malekith
3:06:34 mithril
3:06:47 uncle gazul
3:07:30 Thungni hmmmmmm
Well, I guess I'm re-watching the Zharr Nagrund stream again because I totally forgot what your theory for Hashut was.
I'm totally expecting an Old World friendly new White Dwarf mini for the 500th issue.
Since you mention it...
@@Nortic111 I'm listening 👀
@@toros7983 Ah! Sorry raising your hopes! It seems the recent Grombrindal mini released was for AoS, Underworlds and Warhammer Quest but not The Old World, my apologies.
Given the dwarfs typical relationship with dragons, how did they see and interact with ulthuans dragons during Snorri whitebeards reign?
Because in my mind dwarfs and dragons would be incredible partners, due to their shared traits. Which is also the aspect I like with Fyreslayers.
And I wonder if a dragon in Ulthuan wears dwarfen forged armour or something like it.
It would be pretty cool to learn more about how the dwarfs of Snorri’s era would view the dragons of Ulthuan, I would assume even back then they would still have an instinctual distrust and view them as something to be wary of because I think most encounters they’ve had beforehand with dragons in the Old World would of been pretty hostile. It’s in the nature of warhammer dwarfs to be like this to anything monstrous and beastly.
I think after some time later on, when the elves and dwarfs started working together, especially when Malekith and Snorri’s friendship is a thing. They would have viewed the dragons of Ulthuan in a new light? Since they would’ve witnessed the sheer power and bond these creatures had with their elf riders in countless battles.
Can there be an grombrindal ai we should refer to from time to time
Funnily enough gandalf was a Norse dwarf in Germanic folklore. Tolkien used the name gandalf and other names like thorin from these tales. Goblins and other fantasy elements were also present in these tales
HOW DO I BLOCK THIS CHANNEL?!??!
Can we get Dark Deeds in other places, like Japan?
Is not the Dread King the undead antagonist from Dark Omen?
So snorri is to Grungi as gotrek is to grimnir in AoS?
Fact: Andy thinks Malekith is one of the good guys.
U point out that killing an oath breaker is not kin slaying, so him killing malakith would not be kin slaying no matter what there relationship was like because malakith is an oath breaker
1:21:20 grudge lore book
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2:26:24
Warhammer is my religion, and this is my church.
2:34:19 as someone who was BIG into dwarf-dum in only fantasy, the way we were treated in AoS really just made me despise GW. And it's all dwarf factions, even Votaan, the way that GW just takes everything cool and good about them and just runs them into the ground to a non playable mess or just ignored completely hurts.
Had over 50k of 8e Fantasy Dwarf army and was the dwarf player at my local GW, only player.
50:50 So what you're saying is they're gay for eachother?
Malakith is evil by the time he starts the elf civil war, yes they where not as corrupted outwardly at the time of the civil war, but they are well down that road and the fire rejected him because it knew how corrupted he already was, yes some elves who was on his side might not have been corrupted but that dose not matter they still choose his side for what ever reason, they continue to fight chose not because of some need to fight off chose they do it to stop themselves from being killed or just subsumed by the other chose forces they are part of the chose faction they are just a distinct part of it that is trying to keep themselves distinct, this is not to say malakith is a 2 dimensional cackling bad guy the story of how he falls from being best friends with grombrindal to betraying a oath to his best friend purely for expediency so that the dwarfs fight the high elves for him is a very interesting story but there is no possible redemption from the point that he tries to steal the Pheonix crown, starts the civil war then brakes the oath to create the biggest grudge in the book of grudges.
Yes I hate myself being both a high elf and dwarf player 😂😂 and malakith is quite out right the most evil caricature in the hole of the warhammer would
Fuck no he would kill the oath breaker without a second regret, as u keep pointing out the white dwarf is the representation of oath keeping so why would he have any regret over one of the biggest oath breakers, yes elves don’t think the same way about oaths but they still take them as seriously as humans do at least, but malakith knew what an oath means to dwarfs so u can’t excuse it away but saying “oh he’s an elf and they don’t see oaths the same way so u can’t hold him to the same standards”
P.s “he’s kinda like a god” you mean Demi god after all he is the son of gods without actually reaching godhood
I suspect that he will help out a lot of the other races as long as in the long run it actually helps out the dwarfs I.e. he helps out an elf that goes on to help a human in some way and because that elf saved the human it helps a dwarf compleat his oath
Promo`SM
You know I’ve never really enjoyed the polygamy aspect of the dwarfs. I feel like it could be interesting in certain cases, like grimnir and grungni, and maybe they’d do it sometimes to emulate their ancestors, but the whole 1 in 10 dwarfs being women part I think is just excessive.
Makes it feel a little too brother husband, my wife’s boyfriend emasculating for my little stunty lads. I think it’s too interesting to get rid of but I’d love to see it toned down to some degree.
The 1 in 10 thing has always bugged me as well since because of how evolution works, you would expect that ratio to level back out to 1:1 over time.
Again, like you said, it's an interesting concept, but like a few other things in warhammer, it needs a bit of cleaning up.
Trans day of visibility? I thought they wanted to pass without notice and live their lives.
That they do, but its also nice to see yourself represented in media. And to just have a day for a minority group that faces as much online BS as trans people.