"Always keep a beginner's mind. Always be ready to tear down the castle you built, to build it BETTER." Stephen, loving the videos! I wish I had this advice when I was much younger.
Is exactly what I'm doing but that is because I'm fully self taught and have build some rather hindering habits. Not that I can't play, it just feels like I'm starting to max out what I can do with the little of technique I naturally figuered how to do. So back so square one, extend my technical skills and see what it does for me.
I'm a guitarist who turned to the dark side a few years back. Always find your lessons teaching me three or four things. Your hand position videos are one thing I needed!
Jim Chapin points out using the middle finger and thumb as a fulcrum instead of the index finger in his video as well. I switched from index to middle finger fulcrum due to pain in my hand. It relaxed my hand which as you mentioned improved speed and reduced the pain. My playing improves proportionately with relaxation.... the best way I can describe the feeling is when the sticks are "dancing in my hands". For me, finding more opportunities to relax gives the best use of practice time.
I actually love Scott Pelgrom's vision of it: not choosing a grip, but rather practice any fulcrum and let yourself change when you need to. It helped me stop correcting myself all the time when i'm performing.
Morgane Gautier I agree with this. Because of the nature of our instrument, one hand position just will not work on all points of the kit. So we're faced with adjusting in the moment instead of forcing the moment to adjust to us. Just like music, it's an ebb and flow that we all too often miss.
Stephen Taylor Well put, makes sense to switch grips because as you move around on the kit it will be easier to switch grips and I feel like the more you practice the more natural this becomes
Middle finger fulcrum has the best rebound but I find that when I want to move around the kit really fast the loose nature of the fulcrum makes it hard to hold onto the sticks. Like you said there is no do all fulcrum. Both index and middle finger fulcrums are essential in mastering this difficult instrument.
You are such a talented teacher/instructor. I feel like I learn more just watching your videos at my kitchen table without any sticks than I do with most private instructors. You are most defiantly an influence on my drumming.
Thank you for making these videos! This kind of in-depth explanation is exactly what I've needed to move past the intermediate level. Keep up the great content!
Good stuff as always Stephen.....being away from home for several weeks with nothing but a practice pad and sticks, this gives me something solid to work on that will enhance my playing when I get back on the kit!!! We appreciate you doing these quick tutorials....
Man, I actually have gotten to the point that I LOVE being away from the kit so I'm forced to work on these issues. With the kit around, I just want to hit the shiny things lol. Glad it gave you some food for thought Mark
Mr. Taylor, This is not the first time I have commented on your videos. The one other time was when we disagreed on your description of the blues. We came to a gentleman's agreement. But this video is extremely well thought out and articulated. I am an old dog who just took a lesson. Well done Sir bravo and thank you! David Gallgher
Thanks for a top end lesson again just learning how to hold my sticks better has improved my playing so much and I have you to thank for that I have stopped waving my arms around and focused on stick control thanks again top job 👍🏻
Yes! Thank you. This is exactly the information I’ve been looking for. As a self taught drummer I’ve been chocking the stick way too much and struggling with high speeds
I find your teachings very helpful, as someone coming back to drumming after thirty years and basically starting from scratch, Im finding the science off it very interesting and you exsplain it very well, Please Keep on doing what you do!
I love your videos Stephen. Everytime I watch one it opens new doors, new possibilities, things I didn't think of. Small details but they make a HUGE difference. Thx for this!
Interesting video for me because I recently realized I was gripping the end of the stick and once I moved away from that my music improved leaps and bounds. Good lesson, always can learn something here.
Great lesson I always explain to my students the importance of the fulcrum . Seems like using the middle finger rather than the index finger for fulcrum placement would result in using one less finger when utilizing the finger technique. Yes I’m a drum nerd and think about these things too.
Stephen....I'm a 66 year old rocker. Also, named Steven (just spelled different). I haven't played in about 30 years, but have always enjoyed watching a good, tight drummer playing with a group. Recently I decided, after much prodding by my family and friends, to start back up, again. Bought a new kit, and sat down for what has become an exercise in futility. Not as fast, or as accurate as in the past. Some things are okay, at best....other things, not so much. I just didn't realize, in the past, what was REALLY GOING ON, but I have to say that, after following your videos, on U-tube, that I have already seen excellent results. Minor results....but excellent. Your presentations, analogies and "going deep" on your lessons, make it a pleasure to learn. Thanks for all you do and good luck with the new studio. Sincerely yours, Steven "Woodie" Wieting 😎😎😎
This is 100% excellent and exactly what I needed to know (and now to learn haha). I've come to realize I'm an extremely tense person in general, and it's reflected deeply in my playing. This is the technique and knowledge on relaxed playing that I needed. Now to tear that castle down...
Great talk Stephen. As long as I have been playing, I always try to learn something from another. Then I try to apply it to my playing and teaching. I'll get a lot of mileage out of this. worth its weight in gold. Thank you so much. Ken
Ken Schaefer Thanks for always being willing to learn Ken. I'm the same way. I'm not interested in being right...I'm just interested in bettering myself and my students a little every day. Glad the lesson hit home.
How many kids are sitting in physics class saying, "When am I going to ever use this stuff, I just want to play drums in a band?" LMBO! Another great lesson. Thank you sir!!
Such a great lesson! I've experimented quite a bit with where and how I grip. I've found I naturally change depending on what and how I want to play. This has taken many years of practice and intuitively modifying my grip based on the effect I get vs how much energy I put into it. It's really great to be able to quantify it and explain the physics of it.
This was really helpful. I was born without a joint in my right thumb so the stick keep floating and it's quite challenging to progress so I turned to hand drums. I have a great support team but get frustrated easily when it comes to getting tips, it's just so slow going. Your video was encouraging. Thank you!
Great tutorial Stephen, I've been looking at improving my hand technique. You hit the nail on the head when you said we max out when gripping to much, can't wait to get in the practice room tomorrow.
love your lessons . I have the same exact problem you do with the left hand a lot slower than the right one. actually been trying what you explained before I saw this video. great job explaining it all . I'm going to try to work the left to match. tks again.
I've always played further back on the stick to get more power and throw. I'm one of those downstroke/upstroke players, which helps me greatly, but like you said I've reached a maximum level. But playing this way has always been the most comfortable for me. I'm sure it's force of habit and I haven't made the time and effort to break down and rebuild my technique. I've tried moving up on the stick to improve my fulcrum and rebound but a few bad things happen as a result: 1) The now exposed butt end of the stick constantly slaps and hurts the outside palm of my hand with each rebound. 2) When trying to play looser, my sticks never stay in the same position in my hand and creep further away from me. If I don't grip harder at the fulcrum, causing tension, or constantly re-position the sticks while playing, they will fly out of my hands. 3) Moving up on the stick reduces my reach to toms and cymbals that were easily within reach when further back on the stick. Yes I can re-position my setup, but then everything feels too close. I want to improve all of this and your video finally explained it to me in a way I can relate to and understand. Besides making the time to break my technique down, I need some of your advice, pointers and a place to start. Thanks.
Hey Brian...so you've hit on THE reason why this is not addressed more in more experienced players. It takes a lot of work and changes everything. I went through a very frustrating time with my gigging life while going through this process. I'm happy to help. Drop me an email at help@stephensdrumshed.com and we'll see if we can get you pointed in the right direction to start. The journey to revamp your technique is well worth it. It just requires patience.
Thank you Stephen, that makes a lot of sense. I have recently stopped using a stick pad, in favor of practicing on my Roland drums. That has improved my playing a lot. Nothing wrong with practice pads, but as you explain, you have to adjust your fulcrum on the kit, whereas on the practice pad, the fulcrum only changed when shifting between german, american and french grip.
The further back you hold the stick the faster the tip will move with less movement from the rist even though there is less rebound, but like you said it’s all about using different fulcrum points for different types of playing very cool
Great lesson! I was actually thinking about this while practicing this morning, not all the leavers and stuff, just that I need to choke up on my stick and not just hold the very end (very similar to what you've gone through, I think). Thanks for sharing!
This is exactly the subject I've been dealing with for the past few years, I have changed my sticking position a couple of times (German,French, American) but lately it has transformed into a Tony Williams kind of sticking position. That was a big change and revelation for me. Mainly because of injuries It has been very hard for me to use the thumb-and-first finger fulcrum, that's why I searched for a good sticking position.
Constantijn Prijs Man, last Saturday night I wound up watching an old solo of Tony's after the wife and I had finished a movie. It was a close up of him doing open rolls around the kit...crazy technique. So effortless. I think this proves two things... 1. Tony is a beast in every way. 2. My Saturday nights are embarrassingly uneventful these days.
His drum clinic in 1985 is Tony Williams talking about his "grip" and technique. It's almost frightning how much he combines technique with knowledge and groove.
In the first few minutes of this they do some great close ups of his hands. I watched it on my HD big screen TV to really check out the details: th-cam.com/video/095URl2SJI4/w-d-xo.html
Thanks Stephen. I've actually been trying to work on this very aspect of my playing. I'm a self taught player(15+ years) and am currently in a successful band with some challenging music. I've been going back to the basics, so to speak, and this really helped a lot. I tend to hold the stick close to the ends and knew I needed to get from A-C but did not understand how. Believe it or not I tried looking on TH-cam but nobody explained it the way you did. Thank you for your help and your videos are very informative by the way.
Robert So glad it connected the dots for you Robert. And congrats on your bands success. Proud of you for putting the work in, having some success, and still being humble enough to try and better your playing.
Great video!!! Have you ever tried the "phone books under the arms" trick? I find it helps students that are struggling to use the right muscles to make the sticks work.
So I just recently discovered that I have been choking back on the stick in both hands. I didn't notice it until trying to learn some faster parts in a song for my band and that is what I am working on right now. So thanks for this video Stephen! If you had this "issue" and could over come it, I'm sure I can as well! :)
Mark Fuller Choking back is something that we naturally go to for reasons other than controlling the stick. Anytime it's high volume your body seems to want to go the route of least resistance...which is choking back. But that hinders us in a lot of other ways. Glad it helped Mark!
It made me feel better to know that this isn't "wrong"... but it is for the fact that I always go to a chocked back position even in quiet parts. But now that I know I do it, I can actively correct it. All of your videos have made a HUGE difference is my playing, technique and the way I mentally approach everything. Thanks for everything you do! There's a chance I would have given up on the drums if it wasn't for your videos.
So did you say your you use both your pointer finger and middle finger (two fingers) for your fulcrum? You said it was somewhere between those two fingers but does that mean you use both?
Awesome video! Quick question: how do you prevent the sticks from sliding form the fulcrum point while playing or even having your sticks drop as a result of "cradling" the sticks as you said
hey steven, oh captain my captain.... i got no idea what the heck i'm talking about...but here goes... okay, here's where i took this, or where this went for me. the distinction between fulcrum fingers only, and full finger use, was paramount. in terms of what i believe to be the point/goal/purpose of this exercise. i began as you demonstrated, going from finger to finger, and saw a pattern emerge. i was thinking, i never use just a single finger, for control when playing. it became clear to me, what i'm trying to control is all fingers, plus maintaining a smooth stick bounce/tracking, or fulcrum/lever. without a constant fulcrum, there's just not constant control. it goes in and out, perhaps in such quick intervals, anyway, it is the foundation, forget about it. one can control a stick with just the fulcrum fingers, and no others. but not the other way around. it reduces down into 2 parts. 1: the fingers that essentially are the on the stick as the ones which are the axle points, which is the see-saw the stick rides on. 2: the fingers that keep the stick bouncing/dribbling/see-sawing, with maximized results produced by/resulting in a minimum of effort. like a quick bag in boxing. once it's going, keeping it going, using the least amount of effort, is the goal. this requires precise timing/accuracy/consistency from hit to hit. so again for me, same results occur when alternating one finger at a time as it did going from the fulcrum fingers alone, and alternating between all fingers. putting both parts together, seamlessly/constantly and at all volumes, and tempos is the key to the goal.. the grasp/tension/lbs per sq in/used for the axle/fulcrum/lever part, must remain identical with both parts. no more or less, with all fingers and/or with just fulcrum fingers. keeping control, and not loosing the rebound/bounce/dribbling, keeping the stick tracking on a stable parallel lever, continually, while, using the rest of the fingers as the ones that make the stick go from up to down. reaching the perfect balance of these 2 things. this is the final goal, of mastering drumming with sticks. with economy of effort, and maximized officiants and effectiveness. whatever you want to call it, as far as i can see. get those happening together, you'll have it. no compromises. 50% of each, that is balance. which is also control. if you see 70%/30%, 0r 40%/60% or 49%/51%, you will not be maximizing potential. ultimately, for me, it came down to this: keeping the stick bouncing almost effortlessly became a real challenge. maintaining the exact lever, parallel tracking up and down, keeping it see-sawing, not allowing the stroke to become disrupted, in any way, when alternating between, full finger, vs. fulcrum/lever fingers only strokes. is the destination for which the journey is undertaken. happy shredding
Great video. After 40 years I'm finally trying to get my hands right, so I can speed up. You've described what I'm trying to learn perfectly here. I moved from the pad to the kit the other night and couldn't figure out why I was playing french grip all of the sudden. Now I know. LOL Now if I can just get my 16th notes up to 210 so I can play those Pat and Debbie Boone tunes. ;) I thought it was the carpenters at first. Heading off to watch your other videos....
love the way you think brother drummer. you're right about the use of the word grip, and how it pertains to holding a drumstick. there needs to an accurate word used, cradle is good. jim k. say it's likening to holding a baby bird. i'm struggling with the tightness of my grasp on the fulcrum point. sticks suddenly flying out of my fulcrum from the rebound. but like you say, i don't want to choke it off. it's my other fingers not watching close enough. to be sure, but is that grasp on the lever, per square inch a constant for you? i mean, isn't there a minimum that you can loosen up under? i hope you get that in the content/context/intent was intended. since you use every manner of holding a stick, clearly that pressure if you will, is going to be in constant flux. i'm using a drumkat. so my lever/fulcrum point changes little moving over a small surface, with equal rebound on every voice. like a practice pad, you know a drumkat, right? in any event, i'd love to hear your thoughts. btw, this is the first i've ever bothered to comment, for whatever that's worth. quit a bit, in my book. quantity unknown.... i'll never forget seeing james b. telling about how he was asked what his best song was. in a way only he could, he says my best? james b. got no best, there just aint a best james b. 'how is there no best of jb?' cause ain't nobody seen the best of james b. yet oh, and thank you so very much for sharing, mighty.... something/word//pick, of you. much appreciated.
Going to get back on the drums after 5 years off. Was never great, just decent. This time I’ll do it right by getting my snare technique down correctly! Good video!
Wow, ypu had asked at the end of one of your vids "What's the hardest rudiment for you" I said single stroke, and you replied about my problem being mechanical. Idk if you made this for my ?(ego lol) GREAT lessom btw.
Tobydog Loser Lol, no, not specifically for you...but if it hit you where you needed it, then yes, I made this specifically for you 💪🏻 Fact of the matter is, a lot of the issues we deal with come down to simple technique and mechanical issues. Glad it helped!
Hi Steven, just wondering if you have a close up video of how you hold the stick with each finger placement, and do you follow the idea that you should be able to fit a stick in between the space between your fingers and the stick, if you know what i mean :)
Hi Stephan, I play traditional grip. Could you do a shorter video on how this would apply to me? By the way, I really like how you impart your knowledge and musical ideas.
Yea, mine was a heavy cat but I just wanted to play punk rock and not deal with things like fulcrum, finger control and technique. I got it to a certain level and then I felt it was good enough. Which meant, by the time I landed my first full time gig at 19, I was in to some bad habits. Glad you dug in to that "boring" stuff!
Stephen, what problems did you have later on by "chocking back" with your back beat stick hand? I have been playing drums for 40 years and have been witnessing old age with bad habits, too. My goals are to get back to my natural way of playing as ergonomically as possible without changing my style. Thx man! Great Video! -mb
Finesse. Anytime I wanted to use fingers or proper rebound with the stick, my fulcrum point was in the wrong place. So I would have to adjust the stick. When you're slamming backbeats in bigger venues, this isn't a deal. But it is with all other aspects of playing. Glad the vid helped!
Are you wearing a Pat and Debbie Boone shirt? DUDE! You have the best T-Shirts! People used to give me shit for my Bananarama shirt lol but I never cared either. You rock.
Mmmmm, I'll explore moving my fulcrum to the middle finger. Does the index finger then play a role in controlling direction and amount of rebound? or should it stay totally out of the way?
I"m curious, can't i change the grip and loosen the friction between the first finger and thumb to what it is at the middle finger? Couldn't one also create too much friction with the middle finger? I guess ultimately, why is there more friction between one and the other? Second question, what purpose does the first finger then serve in your "grip"?
I found it odd when you were talking about choking back on the stick. Have you ever seen how Tony Williams played his sticks? Very much in that manner, he was gripping it with his pinky and ring finger.
I have an easier time doing this at faster tempos on the ride and snare. For some reason using the fulcrum at fast tempos on the hi-hats gets me everytime. Does this sound like a technical issue or do I just need to gradually pick up the tempo of the hats?
Yea, sounds like you have a zonal issue with your hihat (that zone of your kit). I would guess that you're turning your hand a bit differently or you were trained to pinch the stick and not use rebound on the hats. Focus just on that zone of your kit, slow it down, and trouble shoot what exactly you're doing differently than you are on the other areas of your kit.
Stephen, I've noticed recently that I always start with my fulcrum on the American flag (I use Vic Firth 8Ds), but then I involuntarily end up sliding the fulcrum back to about where the "a" is in "American Classic." On a practice pad, the American flag fulcrum is definitely the better fulcrum as I get many more bounces that way, but my hands just get used to playing with the fulcrum about a 1/2" back on the letter "A." I was thinking maybe I could try a longer stick, like the Vic Firth Extreme 8D, to fix my "choking back," since the extra length would give me the proper weight balance in my hands and I wouldn't involuntarily choke back on the sticks. Do you think that could be a good solution? Thanks!
That's one option...but you should also look at your grip. I have found that many times the choking back happens (where the stick slowly slips back) for one of two reasons: The player is used to choking back and the ease of power they can get in that position. They are gripping too tightly, which causes the (most of the time) thumb to push the stick to that position over time. The longer sticks are an option but I think you will just find yourself choking even further back. I would look at that thumb, make sure it's not too far forward from your index finger as that will cause this issue. Kind of hard to explain in a comment lol. If you want, shoot me an email with a pic of your grip and I'll give you my thoughts... stephen@stephensdrumshed.com
"Always keep a beginner's mind. Always be ready to tear down the castle you built, to build it BETTER." Stephen, loving the videos! I wish I had this advice when I was much younger.
Is exactly what I'm doing but that is because I'm fully self taught and have build some rather hindering habits. Not that I can't play, it just feels like I'm starting to max out what I can do with the little of technique I naturally figuered how to do. So back so square one, extend my technical skills and see what it does for me.
But why do a lot of these master drummed barely hold any of the stick at all lol
I'm a guitarist who turned to the dark side a few years back. Always find your lessons teaching me three or four things. Your hand position videos are one thing I needed!
Jim Chapin points out using the middle finger and thumb as a fulcrum instead of the index finger in his video as well. I switched from index to middle finger fulcrum due to pain in my hand. It relaxed my hand which as you mentioned improved speed and reduced the pain. My playing improves proportionately with relaxation.... the best way I can describe the feeling is when the sticks are "dancing in my hands". For me, finding more opportunities to relax gives the best use of practice time.
I actually love Scott Pelgrom's vision of it: not choosing a grip, but rather practice any fulcrum and let yourself change when you need to.
It helped me stop correcting myself all the time when i'm performing.
Morgane Gautier I agree with this. Because of the nature of our instrument, one hand position just will not work on all points of the kit. So we're faced with adjusting in the moment instead of forcing the moment to adjust to us. Just like music, it's an ebb and flow that we all too often miss.
Stephen Taylor Well put, makes sense to switch grips because as you move around on the kit it will be easier to switch grips and I feel like the more you practice the more natural this becomes
Middle finger fulcrum has the best rebound but I find that when I want to move around the kit really fast the loose nature of the fulcrum makes it hard to hold onto the sticks. Like you said there is no do all fulcrum. Both index and middle finger fulcrums are essential in mastering this difficult instrument.
anto d I think that the more you practice slowly moving around the kit the easier it becomes as you gradually speed it up
As an engineer with a long time love for drumming, i love the explanation.
Just what I needed to hear today! Thank you Stephen!
You bet!
EYYYYYYYY! :D
Your effort to choose your words carefully is appreciated...and you won! Nce job!
Thanks so much...glad it helped!
You are such a talented teacher/instructor. I feel like I learn more just watching your videos at my kitchen table without any sticks than I do with most private instructors. You are most defiantly an influence on my drumming.
Thanks so much, very humbling to hear that. Really glad the lessons hit home with you
Thank you for making these videos! This kind of in-depth explanation is exactly what I've needed to move past the intermediate level. Keep up the great content!
You bet!
Good stuff as always Stephen.....being away from home for several weeks with nothing but a practice pad and sticks, this gives me something solid to work on that will enhance my playing when I get back on the kit!!! We appreciate you doing these quick tutorials....
Man, I actually have gotten to the point that I LOVE being away from the kit so I'm forced to work on these issues. With the kit around, I just want to hit the shiny things lol. Glad it gave you some food for thought Mark
When I first "discovered" this it immediately increased my speed exponentially. It was unbelievable.
Yea, this is one of those real Hinge points that once you grasp the concept it unlocks things quickly.
You teach on a level where everyone can understand your instruction. Thank you.
So glad to hear that my friend!
"It'll cause you to start peaching down on it." I'm just teasin'. You have a knack for teaching/instructing. Another great video. Keep 'em coming. ;)
Mr. Taylor, This is not the first time I have commented on your videos. The one other time was when we disagreed on your description of the blues. We came to a gentleman's agreement. But this video is extremely well thought out and articulated. I am an old dog who just took a lesson. Well done Sir bravo and thank you!
David Gallgher
Jason Michael So glad to hear from you again David. And humbled that this helped at all.
Thanks for a top end lesson again just learning how to hold my sticks better has improved my playing so much and I have you to thank for that I have stopped waving my arms around and focused on stick control thanks again top job 👍🏻
Makes my day to hear that
Very in depth and useful info, I love these types of lessons.
Thanks Alex...gad you found it helpful
Yes! Thank you. This is exactly the information I’ve been looking for. As a self taught drummer I’ve been chocking the stick way too much and struggling with high speeds
This is a really good lesson. Thank you so much!! Beginners Mind!!
I find your teachings very helpful, as someone coming back to drumming after thirty years and basically starting from scratch, Im finding the science off it very interesting and you exsplain it very well,
Please Keep on doing what you do!
I love your videos Stephen. Everytime I watch one it opens new doors, new possibilities, things I didn't think of. Small details but they make a HUGE difference. Thx for this!
Makes my day to hear it...you're more than welcome
Interesting video for me because I recently realized I was gripping the end of the stick and once I moved away from that my music improved leaps and bounds. Good lesson, always can learn something here.
Great lesson I always explain to my students the importance of the fulcrum . Seems like using the middle finger rather than the index finger for fulcrum placement would result in using one less finger when utilizing the finger technique. Yes I’m a drum nerd and think about these things too.
Stephen Taylor, PhD
Lol
Great! Excellent!!! Txs so much you are the man!!! My playing changed a lot!
Hello Stephen, this is your most important lesson for me. Thanks, this will alleviate many issues.
Stephen....I'm a 66 year old rocker. Also, named Steven (just spelled different). I haven't played in about 30 years, but have always enjoyed watching a good, tight drummer playing with a group. Recently I decided, after much prodding by my family and friends, to start back up, again. Bought a new kit, and sat down for what has become an exercise in futility. Not as fast, or as accurate as in the past. Some things are okay, at best....other things, not so much. I just didn't realize, in the past, what was REALLY GOING ON, but I have to say that, after following your videos, on U-tube, that I have already seen excellent results. Minor results....but excellent. Your presentations, analogies and "going deep" on your lessons, make it a pleasure to learn. Thanks for all you do and good luck with the new studio. Sincerely yours, Steven "Woodie" Wieting 😎😎😎
Welcome back to the family Steven! And thanks so much for the kind words. Makes my day to know that the videos have helped that much.
This is 100% excellent and exactly what I needed to know (and now to learn haha). I've come to realize I'm an extremely tense person in general, and it's reflected deeply in my playing. This is the technique and knowledge on relaxed playing that I needed. Now to tear that castle down...
Great talk Stephen. As long as I have been playing, I always try to learn something from
another. Then I try to apply it to my playing and teaching. I'll get a lot of mileage out of this.
worth its weight in gold. Thank you so much. Ken
Ken Schaefer Thanks for always being willing to learn Ken. I'm the same way. I'm not interested in being right...I'm just interested in bettering myself and my students a little every day. Glad the lesson hit home.
Good stuff, Stephen! Thank you!
Excellent Teacher... Excellent Advice Thank you for this!
Glad it helped!
Thanks for your channel, just bought my first drum kit and trying to get started with a good technical base and knowledge - your videos help a lot
How many kids are sitting in physics class saying, "When am I going to ever use this stuff, I just want to play drums in a band?" LMBO! Another great lesson. Thank you sir!!
Great lesson as always Steve , enjoy the way you teach and convey your points
Such a great lesson!
I've experimented quite a bit with where and how I grip. I've found I naturally change depending on what and how I want to play. This has taken many years of practice and intuitively modifying my grip based on the effect I get vs how much energy I put into it.
It's really great to be able to quantify it and explain the physics of it.
This was really helpful. I was born without a joint in my right thumb so the stick keep floating and it's quite challenging to progress so I turned to hand drums. I have a great support team but get frustrated easily when it comes to getting tips, it's just so slow going. Your video was encouraging. Thank you!
Great tutorial Stephen, I've been looking at improving my hand technique. You hit the nail on the head when you said we max out when gripping to much, can't wait to get in the practice room tomorrow.
Awesome video. Such a simple idea, but so complex in terms of how it affects your drumming in more advanced techniques
The farther I get in my drumming the more I go back to these simple, yet profound, topics
Great in depth lesson Steven
You are such a good teacher! I've learned more off this channel then from actual lessons!
shaun davies Thanks so much Shaun. It really does make my day to hear that.
I enjoyed this lesson a lot. Thanks, Stephen!
love your lessons . I have the same exact problem you do with the left hand a lot slower than the right one. actually been trying what you explained before I saw this video. great job explaining it all . I'm going to try to work the left to match. tks again.
very good point you're making there. maybe it will help me with my blast beats. thanks for the video
I've always played further back on the stick to get more power and throw. I'm one of those downstroke/upstroke players, which helps me greatly, but like you said I've reached a maximum level. But playing this way has always been the most comfortable for me. I'm sure it's force of habit and I haven't made the time and effort to break down and rebuild my technique. I've tried moving up on the stick to improve my fulcrum and rebound but a few bad things happen as a result: 1) The now exposed butt end of the stick constantly slaps and hurts the outside palm of my hand with each rebound. 2) When trying to play looser, my sticks never stay in the same position in my hand and creep further away from me. If I don't grip harder at the fulcrum, causing tension, or constantly re-position the sticks while playing, they will fly out of my hands. 3) Moving up on the stick reduces my reach to toms and cymbals that were easily within reach when further back on the stick. Yes I can re-position my setup, but then everything feels too close. I want to improve all of this and your video finally explained it to me in a way I can relate to and understand. Besides making the time to break my technique down, I need some of your advice, pointers and a place to start. Thanks.
Hey Brian...so you've hit on THE reason why this is not addressed more in more experienced players. It takes a lot of work and changes everything. I went through a very frustrating time with my gigging life while going through this process. I'm happy to help. Drop me an email at help@stephensdrumshed.com and we'll see if we can get you pointed in the right direction to start. The journey to revamp your technique is well worth it. It just requires patience.
Thank you Stephen, that makes a lot of sense. I have recently stopped using a stick pad, in favor of practicing on my Roland drums. That has improved my playing a lot. Nothing wrong with practice pads, but as you explain, you have to adjust your fulcrum on the kit, whereas on the practice pad, the fulcrum only changed when shifting between german, american and french grip.
Thanks for the help, I find myself locking up whenever I play bebop or fast rock. Keep up the great work Stephen!!
Tate Davis You bet Tate. All about the rebound and fulcrum on those fast tunes. Glad it helped.
The further back you hold the stick the faster the tip will move with less movement from the rist even though there is less rebound, but like you said it’s all about using different fulcrum points for different types of playing very cool
Really awesome lesson on the physics of drumming!
Great lesson! I was actually thinking about this while practicing this morning, not all the leavers and stuff, just that I need to choke up on my stick and not just hold the very end (very similar to what you've gone through, I think). Thanks for sharing!
Yea, this is the reason behind why you felt you needed to do that
Cheers for that, man. Very cool. Going to try it out. Been a self taught drummer since the age of 8 so this is pretty clutch.
This is exactly the subject I've been dealing with for the past few years, I have changed my sticking position a couple of times (German,French, American) but lately it has transformed into a Tony Williams kind of sticking position. That was a big change and revelation for me. Mainly because of injuries It has been very hard for me to use the thumb-and-first finger fulcrum, that's why I searched for a good sticking position.
Constantijn Prijs Man, last Saturday night I wound up watching an old solo of Tony's after the wife and I had finished a movie. It was a close up of him doing open rolls around the kit...crazy technique. So effortless.
I think this proves two things...
1. Tony is a beast in every way.
2. My Saturday nights are embarrassingly uneventful these days.
His drum clinic in 1985 is Tony Williams talking about his "grip" and technique. It's almost frightning how much he combines technique with knowledge and groove.
In the first few minutes of this they do some great close ups of his hands. I watched it on my HD big screen TV to really check out the details: th-cam.com/video/095URl2SJI4/w-d-xo.html
thank you Stephan never thought of some of this before.
This is very useful information. Thank you for taking the time to fully explain this with many examples. Great job!
You bet!
Im glad to find my new favourite hero, great lesson!
Glad it helped
Hell of a teacher... Great content as usual! Keep it up bro!
Cheers fro Brazil
Wicked Stevo as I've tendon damage & have no choice but to use 3 fingers & thumb !!
Eye-opener... good tips here...thanks
You bet!
Thanks Stephen. I've actually been trying to work on this very aspect of my playing. I'm a self taught player(15+ years) and am currently in a successful band with some challenging music. I've been going back to the basics, so to speak, and this really helped a lot. I tend to hold the stick close to the ends and knew I needed to get from A-C but did not understand how. Believe it or not I tried looking on TH-cam but nobody explained it the way you did. Thank you for your help and your videos are very informative by the way.
Robert So glad it connected the dots for you Robert. And congrats on your bands success. Proud of you for putting the work in, having some success, and still being humble enough to try and better your playing.
Very articulate. Subscribed! Thanks!
Ur a beast !!!! Thanks for all the help man
ivan hita Sure thing Ivan!
Great video!!! Have you ever tried the "phone books under the arms" trick? I find it helps students that are struggling to use the right muscles to make the sticks work.
So I just recently discovered that I have been choking back on the stick in both hands. I didn't notice it until trying to learn some faster parts in a song for my band and that is what I am working on right now. So thanks for this video Stephen! If you had this "issue" and could over come it, I'm sure I can as well! :)
Mark Fuller Choking back is something that we naturally go to for reasons other than controlling the stick. Anytime it's high volume your body seems to want to go the route of least resistance...which is choking back. But that hinders us in a lot of other ways. Glad it helped Mark!
It made me feel better to know that this isn't "wrong"... but it is for the fact that I always go to a chocked back position even in quiet parts. But now that I know I do it, I can actively correct it. All of your videos have made a HUGE difference is my playing, technique and the way I mentally approach everything. Thanks for everything you do! There's a chance I would have given up on the drums if it wasn't for your videos.
So did you say your you use both your pointer finger and middle finger (two fingers) for your fulcrum? You said it was somewhere between those two fingers but does that mean you use both?
Ty. Finally i get the answer about 16th on the hi hat. Noone TH-cam teacher doesn't tell abou that. Thank a lot Stephen.
Nice video Stephen! Very helpfull. Do you use push/pull technique? And if the answer is yes, can you make video about that? Keep up with good work!
Awesome video! Quick question: how do you prevent the sticks from sliding form the fulcrum point while playing or even having your sticks drop as a result of "cradling" the sticks as you said
That's happen with my left (weak) hand a lot
This is very usefull. Thanks!
I also like your positive attitude towards people using techniques that are clearly inferior in your opinion.
Tom van Wijk Thanks Tom, glad it helped!
hey steven, oh captain my captain....
i got no idea what the heck i'm talking about...but here goes...
okay, here's where i took this, or where this went for me. the distinction between fulcrum fingers only, and full finger use, was paramount. in terms of what i believe to be the point/goal/purpose of this exercise.
i began as you demonstrated, going from finger to finger, and saw a pattern emerge. i was thinking, i never use just a single finger, for control when playing. it became clear to me, what i'm trying to control is all fingers, plus maintaining a smooth stick bounce/tracking, or fulcrum/lever. without a constant fulcrum, there's just not constant control. it goes in and out, perhaps in such quick intervals, anyway, it is the foundation, forget about it. one can control a stick with just the fulcrum fingers, and no others. but not the other way around.
it reduces down into 2 parts.
1: the fingers that essentially are the on the stick as the ones which are the axle points, which is the see-saw the stick rides on.
2: the fingers that keep the stick bouncing/dribbling/see-sawing, with maximized results produced by/resulting in a minimum of effort. like a quick bag in boxing. once it's going, keeping it going, using the least amount of effort, is the goal. this requires precise timing/accuracy/consistency from hit to hit.
so again for me, same results occur when alternating one finger at a time as it did going from the fulcrum fingers alone, and alternating between all fingers. putting both parts together, seamlessly/constantly and at all volumes, and tempos is the key to the goal.. the grasp/tension/lbs per sq in/used for the axle/fulcrum/lever part, must remain identical with both parts. no more or less, with all fingers and/or with just fulcrum fingers. keeping control, and not loosing the rebound/bounce/dribbling, keeping the stick tracking on a stable parallel lever, continually, while, using the rest of the fingers as the ones that make the stick go from up to down. reaching the perfect balance of these 2 things. this is the final goal, of mastering drumming with sticks. with economy of effort, and maximized officiants and effectiveness. whatever you want to call it, as far as i can see. get those happening together, you'll have it. no compromises. 50% of each, that is balance. which is also control. if you see 70%/30%, 0r 40%/60% or 49%/51%, you will not be maximizing potential.
ultimately, for me, it came down to this:
keeping the stick bouncing almost effortlessly became a real challenge. maintaining the exact lever, parallel tracking up and down, keeping it see-sawing, not allowing the stroke to become disrupted, in any way, when alternating between, full finger, vs. fulcrum/lever fingers only strokes. is the destination for which the journey is undertaken.
happy shredding
Great video. After 40 years I'm finally trying to get my hands right, so I can speed up. You've described what I'm trying to learn perfectly here. I moved from the pad to the kit the other night and couldn't figure out why I was playing french grip all of the sudden. Now I know. LOL Now if I can just get my 16th notes up to 210 so I can play those Pat and Debbie Boone tunes. ;) I thought it was the carpenters at first. Heading off to watch your other videos....
Livinthosesongs So glad it helped
love the way you think brother drummer. you're right about the use of the word grip, and how it pertains to holding a drumstick. there needs to an accurate word used, cradle is good. jim k. say it's likening to holding a baby bird.
i'm struggling with the tightness of my grasp on the fulcrum point. sticks suddenly flying out of my fulcrum from the rebound. but like you say, i don't want to choke it off.
it's my other fingers not watching close enough. to be sure, but is that grasp on the lever, per square inch a constant for you? i mean, isn't there a minimum that you can loosen up under? i hope you get that in the content/context/intent was intended.
since you use every manner of holding a stick, clearly that pressure if you will, is going to be in constant flux.
i'm using a drumkat. so my lever/fulcrum point changes little moving over a small surface, with equal rebound on every voice. like a practice pad, you know a drumkat, right?
in any event, i'd love to hear your thoughts.
btw, this is the first i've ever bothered to comment, for whatever that's worth. quit a bit, in my book. quantity unknown....
i'll never forget seeing james b. telling about how he was asked what his best song was. in a way only he could, he says my best? james b. got no best, there just aint a best james b. 'how is there no best of jb?' cause ain't nobody seen the best of james b. yet
oh, and thank you so very much for sharing, mighty.... something/word//pick, of you. much appreciated.
Very helpful
Going to get back on the drums after 5 years off. Was never great, just decent. This time I’ll do it right by getting my snare technique down correctly! Good video!
Welcome home!
Good stuff
So glad i learnt about pivots in science last week.
also jesus... ur smart
Thank you so much
Behzad Amiri You bet!
Great lesson!man,love the shirt too man!
Wow, ypu had asked at the end of one of your vids "What's the hardest rudiment for you" I said single stroke, and you replied about my problem being mechanical. Idk if you made this for my ?(ego lol) GREAT lessom btw.
Tobydog Loser Lol, no, not specifically for you...but if it hit you where you needed it, then yes, I made this specifically for you 💪🏻
Fact of the matter is, a lot of the issues we deal with come down to simple technique and mechanical issues. Glad it helped!
Thank you Stephen. Great lesson. What is your approach to open close o push pull technique?
Hi Steven, just wondering if you have a close up video of how you hold the stick with each finger placement, and do you follow the idea that you should be able to fit a stick in between the space between your fingers and the stick, if you know what i mean :)
Look up the slow mo vids on my channel. And the space...depends. my grip is always relaxed but sometimes that space varies
Hi Stephan, I play traditional grip. Could you do a shorter video on how this would apply to me? By the way, I really like how you impart your knowledge and musical ideas.
Thanks Gil...I'll see what I can do
Interesting, I also started at 14 but my teacher was an orchestral player so everything was heavily based on "the boring part" which i actually loved
Yea, mine was a heavy cat but I just wanted to play punk rock and not deal with things like fulcrum, finger control and technique. I got it to a certain level and then I felt it was good enough. Which meant, by the time I landed my first full time gig at 19, I was in to some bad habits. Glad you dug in to that "boring" stuff!
Man you have no idea how much this video just helped me, exactly what I needed today. You’re a great teacher keep it up!
Thanks Isaac...so glad it helped
This will definitely help me to better play ZZ Top's "Just Got Paid" with just right hand playing the hi-hats. :)
Awesome
Stephen, what problems did you have later on by "chocking back" with your back beat stick hand? I have been playing drums for 40 years and have been witnessing old age with bad habits, too. My goals are to get back to my natural way of playing as ergonomically as possible without changing my style. Thx man! Great Video! -mb
Finesse. Anytime I wanted to use fingers or proper rebound with the stick, my fulcrum point was in the wrong place. So I would have to adjust the stick. When you're slamming backbeats in bigger venues, this isn't a deal. But it is with all other aspects of playing. Glad the vid helped!
Thank you
You bet
12:30 to see why he's talking about this so much, and how much of a difference it makes
Drinking game: one shot every time Stephen says fulcrum... good luck!
ThaTyger *dead*
ThaTyger “Im so drunk I cant even see anymore wahaha!”
Or becaaaause XD
Thanks that's helpful
Sheng-Wen Lai Glad to hear it Shen!
Thanks
Are you wearing a Pat and Debbie Boone shirt? DUDE! You have the best T-Shirts! People used to give me shit for my Bananarama shirt lol but I never cared either. You rock.
I'm late to the game here, but the physics in that lesson was awesome!
Mmmmm, I'll explore moving my fulcrum to the middle finger. Does the index finger then play a role in controlling direction and amount of rebound? or should it stay totally out of the way?
I"m curious, can't i change the grip and loosen the friction between the first finger and thumb to what it is at the middle finger? Couldn't one also create too much friction with the middle finger? I guess ultimately, why is there more friction between one and the other?
Second question, what purpose does the first finger then serve in your "grip"?
Yodiegang
I found it odd when you were talking about choking back on the stick. Have you ever seen how Tony Williams played his sticks? Very much in that manner, he was gripping it with his pinky and ring finger.
Sure...Tony is one of my favorite players. And I will agree with you, he seemed to grip as you pointed out.
I remember him saying he didn't wanna rely on rebound. I always found that so odd with him, but i guess he more than made it work haha
Do you find that the middle finger fulcrum rather than pointer finger may help prevent tendonitis in wrist/arm? Thanks Stephen.
Not necessarily. I do find that when the fulcrum is on the index finger, I have to grip a bit tighter.
what part of the middle finger and thumb are in contact with the stick so where should you FEEL that friction
I have an easier time doing this at faster tempos on the ride and snare. For some reason using the fulcrum at fast tempos on the hi-hats gets me everytime. Does this sound like a technical issue or do I just need to gradually pick up the tempo of the hats?
Yea, sounds like you have a zonal issue with your hihat (that zone of your kit). I would guess that you're turning your hand a bit differently or you were trained to pinch the stick and not use rebound on the hats. Focus just on that zone of your kit, slow it down, and trouble shoot what exactly you're doing differently than you are on the other areas of your kit.
Stephen Taylor already seeing improvement on it in less than a week. Thanks!
Stephen,
I've noticed recently that I always start with my fulcrum on the American flag (I use Vic Firth 8Ds), but then I involuntarily end up sliding the fulcrum back to about where the "a" is in "American Classic." On a practice pad, the American flag fulcrum is definitely the better fulcrum as I get many more bounces that way, but my hands just get used to playing with the fulcrum about a 1/2" back on the letter "A."
I was thinking maybe I could try a longer stick, like the Vic Firth Extreme 8D, to fix my "choking back," since the extra length would give me the proper weight balance in my hands and I wouldn't involuntarily choke back on the sticks.
Do you think that could be a good solution? Thanks!
That's one option...but you should also look at your grip. I have found that many times the choking back happens (where the stick slowly slips back) for one of two reasons:
The player is used to choking back and the ease of power they can get in that position.
They are gripping too tightly, which causes the (most of the time) thumb to push the stick to that position over time.
The longer sticks are an option but I think you will just find yourself choking even further back. I would look at that thumb, make sure it's not too far forward from your index finger as that will cause this issue. Kind of hard to explain in a comment lol. If you want, shoot me an email with a pic of your grip and I'll give you my thoughts... stephen@stephensdrumshed.com