OXIDATION TEST - Bottling Home Brew Beer!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2019
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You are 100% correct, the yeast will find the sugar.
"It's drinkable" -- HA - famous last words. Have a nice day all. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
I have been squeezing the air out of my bottles for 7+ years and you are the first other person I have come across who does it!
Great video, love your delivery. My wife helped me bottle 80 pints yesterday and said "why are you squeezing the air out?", "Because this brilliant bloke on TH-cam told me to do it, that why". Ive never been a shaker, but I'm looking forward to seeing and tasting the difference. Greeting from Cornwall UK.
That's a great test. Thank you for sharing! Cheers!
Cheers!
Thanks for having the foresight into making this test. I will never shake again. Love your vids
Thanks for watching Dianne, Cheers!
Great experiment! Thanks for that.
Nice one Gash m8,very interesting experiment makes so much sense now. I have to admit when I was brewing I always shook the bottles as I mostly used dark brown sugar to carb and it was a pita to dissolve. This might explain why some of my beers didn't turn out as expected and had a twang to them. Cheers
I stopped shaking the bottles years ago, but never thought to squeeze out the air. Going to try that with my next batch due to bottle this weekend. Cheers mate!
Great video, love seeing experiments like this.
Thanks for watching, cheers mate!
So good. You know of all the discussions I’ve read over the years I’ve never come across this and you know it makes sense & I’ve been a routine shaker for the last few years exclusively and I’ve been stumped by the oxidation.
Bloody champion effort and great video.
Thanks for watching Sam! Cheers
@@HomeBrewNetwork I wonder how much difference squeezed V not squeezed V squeezed shaken V not squeezed shaken turns out like? 🤔
Awesome experiment! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching cheers!
I watched this over a year ago, maybe two and it inspired me to fill my swing top bottles to the top. Sometimes they push out some beer if there on there side and to get round this for the first week they are standing up. Swing top seem to pressure release.
Great insight once again gash, love watching ur work! quick question re priming sugars and bottling. Do u need to change your ratios of sugar to fermented wort when you have cold crashed in fermenter and bottle it cold?
I'm about a week from bottling my first home brew. Nothing All grain and fancy.. its a muntons craft American IPA and I was planning to do the squeeze, but a little shake with it. You've convinced me to not! Thanks for the simple and to the point video chap! It got you a new subscriber and me a bit of help! Thanks from England!
Epic cheers. Thought that would be the case but good to see an experiment to confirm 👌🏻
This could explain why my beer was always better than my dads in my opinion . He used glass and I used pet. I would also squeeze the air and use carbonation drops he would use sugar. Just grabbed my brewing gear out first time in a few years since my dad passed away. Let’s see how we go
Thanks for that experiment, I've been brewing for a year now, and just put down an irish stout, I've never shaken my bottles but I have always tilted them 2 or 3 times, but now I won't be doing tha either, thanks mate and CHEERS
I'm convinced. I've done both but never really thought about the ramifications. Great experiment Dickie Knee! cheers.
hahaha Cheers VB
Ive never seen that tested before. Good example of oxidation in general. Great vid.
Thanks again for watching Nossy! :) Cheers
Great Video! I currently bottle my homebrew exclusively and have stayed away from beer styles that are susceptible to oxygenation, but this will give me the opportunity to brew a “Hazy IPA” this spring. Thanks!
Glad I saw this, so no to shaking when bottling, good to know.
Interesting experiment Gash. Good to know when bottling. Cheers mate 🍻
Cheers Parko!
I have bottled in PET bottles so many times and I never thought to squeeze the air out before capping. Always learning! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching mate!
Awesome work
Thanks mate!
good one Gash. thanks and cheers.
Thanks for watching mate!
Great experiment!
Cheers Roy, thanks for watching!
Thank you much for this video, I would have never thought, used to shake shake shake, but after seeing your video, never again.
good test man.
Great vid mate
Thanks for watching mate!
Such an awesome video and really helps explain to the home brewer about oxidation issues. There is a practice with glass is you place the crown cap on after filling and leave it for a minute before capping. That way the co2 pushes the oxygen out if the bottle as it's released from the beer. I practice this when bottling and have not had issues that I can tell. What are your thoughts on this. Cheers
Great idea.
Yep I started doing that when I was bottling after one day I heard one of the caps rattling and a light bulb went off in my head, I remember telling Craigtube and I think he started doing it for a while, that was long agoooo hahaha Great tip Finn! One I hadnt thought about since I rarely bottle these days. Cheers mate
I didn't know about that but I will be certain to give that a crack next brew. A Norwegian brewer also told me you can get crown caps with an oxygen absorbing layer inside that's activated by water. I'm tempted to give these a shot as well but they don't seem to be cheap in Australia for some reason, despite being peanuts in other countries.
Yeah I havent seen those around for years, i was always paranoid so used to sanitise them, which destroyed any help they may of been, I'm not sure how truly helpful they are, but anything helps I guess!
i bottle my entire brew with the lids sitting loosely and you hear the caps popping and rattling, i then cap when the last one is filled.
Excellent and informative as always Gav, great work. I was a Bottling Line Supervisor for a major Australian Winery for 12 years and we paid particular attention to Dissolved Oxygen (DO) and it's detrimental effects on quality,taste and longevity of wine. With storage time increased, so would the detrimental effect of DO on that beer.Awesome test mate and thanks for the share.
I will go into details one day, but as you would know the amount needed to spoil is extremely small, I've already copped flack for this lol people get upset over the strangest things.. just because its challenged their process and thoughts, not my business what they do hahaha ahh the internet Cheers mate!
Great video. Will do this from now on , thanks 🙏
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
Great video ,I'm new to home brewing and squeezed the bottles and ' no shake' on my first brew of bulldog brews 'bad cat' after watching your video and its turned out great 👍🏻thanks
Well Gash I never new there would be a difference, I've been shaking bottles since I started I did wonder why some tasted different.I'm bottling
Tuesday will give it a try. Thanks you do some great things
Cheers and thank you James!
Great video, really enjoying this subject at the moment due to my misfortunes so it's great to learn more about it :)
Cheers and thanks!
When I first started brewing it was you that said squeeze the air out of the PET bottles before putting the lid on. It was the best advise I got. Thanks for demonstrating what can happen. Pierre
Glad I could help, cheers!
Great video thanks for your technical work i will be putting this method into my everyday brew day
Cheers mate 👍👍
Thanks for watching mate, cheers!
Interesting. Great video mate. Cheers
Cheers mate, thanks for watching
Good point Gash!!! Cheers!
Cheers Kacer!
Amazing results Gash, never ever thought about that. Wow even beer mails when the post get there hands on em they are shaken up and then we put to one side to settle so understandable why when we taste thier beer its not how they remember it being. Oh wow gonna have to have a think now Cheers Sir
Yeah mate, can make a huge difference! Thanks for watching mate
Very cool mate love it !!!!
Thanks for watching mate!
great info thanks!
Great video. Have you tried to see a difference if you dont shake either but squeeze one and not the other? I'm gonna give it a go anyway but curious if that makes any noticeable difference.
Good to see the difference anyway!
Great advice.
Cheers mate!
Great video
Thank you and cheers!
Cheers staying thirsty , great video .
Thanks for watching mate!
Thanks mate, about to bottle my first brew, will squeeze the bottles and not shake :-)
Good video lucky for me i noticed it very erly in my brewing career. My Evert first brew was sligtly oxidized then a saw that video and corrected it in my second brewing. The beer from the second batch was lighter in color and had a crisper aftertaste. The first batch was barley drinkable after 4 weeks. I am a extrakt brewer only, Coopers for the medium abv and brewferm for the heavy stuff. I use that tecnic for bottling white wine also. Make a good sparkling wine.
I use white sugarkubes for coffe instead of carbonating drops, fits nicely in the bottlenecks and cheap.
Thanks for your usefull videos, cheers from a snowy north sweden!
Good stuff, Cheers mate!
Thanks Gash, you saved a life mate!!
Thanks for watching mate!
Good job! Nice vid
Thanks for watching mate, cheers!
Thanks for the great vid. Didn’t take oxidation very seriously but you converted me.
Number one beer enemy the other is light. Cheers mate!
Bottled for years using glass bottles and always turn it upside down once and then back upright to mix in sugar. Bottled probably 200 batches and not one issue. It's a non issue. I've not met one homebrewer who bottles that's ever had an issue either. Maybe it's those PET plastic bottles.
I used to shake them up too and was always disappointed in the bottled beers compared to kegged.
They always seemed darker and less hoppy.
Now if I have to bottle (for a competition or beer mail) I do it from the keg with a carb cap.
Glass bottled beers too for aging I do from the keg and try my best to purge any oxygen, then also use the oxygen scavenging caps.
Great side by side comparison video.
Cheers!
ps. I went and bought myself the KegKing father's day deal of a new kegerator and a snub nose Fermentasuarus.
Money well spent! 😊👍
Happy Fathers Day WOOOOOOOOTT good luck mate!
Awesome vid gash! Yeh, raisen/caramel. When I tasted kloppys Jedi that's what I got. Beefas was on the way. Cheers
Thanks for watching Stass, Cheers mate!
It would have been interesting to see a third bottle where you just skip the shaking but don't squeeze out the extra air.
Agree 100% with you bud. Be interesting to see that one.
Cheers Gash, oxy and beer... not a good mix 😎 good way to show it ... and you got 2 beers to drink on a nice day also 🍻🍻🍻 cheers Gash, Mike.
It was nice, though I tipped the rest of the oxy one ewww hahaha Cheers!
I can concur that bottling w/o shaking is better. I stepped up my game another notch when I went to keging and blowing off the O2 with 4 pulls of the reliefe valve before letting it go to carb up. Even tested 12psi for 2 weeks vs 30 PSI for 2 days. If ya need to get a beer going faster, 30 PSI for 2 days for Hefe is great or Ambers that need another 2 weeks in the keg to mature works on 12 psi for 3 weeks.
I learned something today. Thanks for sharing. Cheers =)
Thanks for watching, cheers mate!
Closed loop transfer is so easy to do and is why i switched to kegging
Hey mate, love the channel and your advice, I was wondering have you ever used ascorbic acid. I've just got a 30L fermenter and I bottle cheers 👍
I don't, I would, I use SMB, but it's not a magic bullet you can't use it and be sloppy. I'd still do this even if I used it. What I would do is use a SMB rinse for the bottles before filling, that's sanitising and adding a small amount of protection at the same time. Cheers!
Never though about that... Never shake my bottles but I do turn them upside down to make sure they're sealed properly.... would that make a difference?
Great video, very visual comparison on this very important topic (and I can almost taste that sweet / caramel flavor in the oxidized beer - yuck!). It underscores the need to eliminate O2.
Great visual demonstration of what oxygen can do to a beer. I'm guilty of the bottle shake. Might have to change that habit for sure. I bottle in glass so it will be interesting to do a comparison between a shaken and non shaken. I'm guessing the difference will be less without being able to squeeze the air out. Who knows. Cheers Gash 🍻
Do it dino! Would be a great follow up vid!
@@StassBrewing sounds like a plan. I'll keep it in mind. Cheers
Do it mate was thinking the same thing. Great Vids too mate. made a few of your brews came out great.
@@shanerobinett2857 Will do. Great to hear the beers turned out well. Cheers mate 🍻
good video
Cheers Marty
Don't think anyone can argue with that..................cheers mate
You'd be surprised, actually no you wouldnt.. lol Cheers
"Just don't." I love it!
Squeezing the air out looks like a messy pain in the ass job on top of what already is a bloody tedious bore. Super results though Gash, cheers for sharing.
Brilliant experiment, I've shaken my last bottle! Just looking at the head on the two beers, did you put carb drops in both or just the shaken one? Cheers!
Vormulac1 both, thanks and cheers mate!
@@HomeBrewNetwork Thanks mate!
Great video! There was a difference in the amount of head initially. Is there a carbonation difference between the two due to having to puff the bottle back up or was the head difference just due to the pour?
so minimal as not to be counted, try it! Cheers!
@@HomeBrewNetwork i definitely will the next time i bottle! Thanks bro!
I just did my first batch of beer. I used an auto-siphon to take the beer into the bottling bucket. I put sugar in solution into the bottling bucket and mixed it with the beer. So no need to add sugar to the bottles. Then I used a bottling want to fill bottles up from the bottom. I did not shake. Hopefully carbonation will fill the space at the top of the bottle.
Bulk priming. Bulk priming is really bad for hoppy beers, don't age them. Once they are carbed and ready to drink try and store them cold. The beer gets oxidised in the bottling bucket. You'll here a lot of beginners tell people to use a bottling bucket but its just not good for hoppy beers, its ok for big stouts. Cheers!
Hey just a quick question when using brewing salts do u add just for mash water amount or for the whole batch size?
depends on the beer, and the mash it is most important because it can adjust the pH but if you're aiming for a particular water profile for an NEIPA or anything really, then yes I add more to the boil. Cheers! Not sure if you saw my brewday JEDI JUICE video where I go through the water adds. Cheers!
What kind of ratio would you recommend for the rinse Im finding too many conflicting stories online 😂
So just swap starsan for SMB? 👍
Great vid Gash, I get so much shit from using PET bottles but I'm going to show this vid every time just to prove a point. cheers
PET bottles are fine mate, you probably wouldnt store a imperial stout for 5 years or anything but they are fine! Cheers!
I use pet bottles and does this little trick apply to cider as well or just ales.
@@tigertank1a421 It certainly wont hurt
Awesome results. What is that stainless vessel you are using as a fermenter here?
Its a mangrove jacks fermenter
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Do you recommend getting new PET caps each time you bottle a brew or is it Ok to use the same caps aslong as they are nice and tight?
Cheers
I always preferred new caps, just made me feel good.. although I do stab myself lots of times trying to get the little lock ring thing off hahaha I know people do reuse and most of the time its ok.. but if you can get new ones cheap then you know, up to you mate! Cheers!
Great explanation. Is there much of a taste difference because I shake mine 1 or 2 times as I got told on a coopers kit I got years ago
Yes its night and day mate, the shaken got tipped, the other one got drank. Cheers!
Wow
What if you squeeze out the O2 and shake?
I use a Williams Warn 50ltr brew Keg. Then counter pressure bottle. Then drink in a total time of 7 to 10 days. Have you ever thought of priming your bottles with Co2 first?
Yep, I would a beer gun or counter pressure bottle filler, to be honest though I rarely bottle hoppy beers, I just keg them, I'd of normally tipped out what was left after kegging. Cheers!
The trouble is that it could also have been the bottle squeeze that made the difference ? Or both ?
Great experiment and helped answer a question I have been hesitating to place on a fb homebrew group in case the oxidation police shoot me down in flames haha ;) I only bottle and used to give three inversion shakes to mix in the sugar, but the more I read about oxidation I wondered if I was damaging my beer. I have started giving just one inversion, but probably should not mix that air at the top of the bottle at all. My question: do you think the yeast will find the priming sugar (I use table sugar) if the bottles aren't shaken at all? Cheers for ya time, mate.
No need at all to tip the bottles, the yeast will find it no worries! I used to be a tipper too hahaha Cheers!
Wow subbed
Cheers and thanks Darren
Charlie Papazian wrote in The Complete Joy of Homebrewing "shhhh, siphon quietly." I thought I understood what he meant until I had 5 gallons of oxidized beer on my hands.
Never knew people would shake to mix in the sugar. When I bottled I would add in my bottling bucket. But I only bottle for competition now i HATE bottling.
hahaha Cheers mate!
Just wondering if the second bottle tastes and looks different as it was almost the bottom of the fermentor??
No its the oxygen damage, cheers and thanks for watching!
Never occurred to me to squeeze the bottle to purge the oxygen like that. Will definitely try that next batch. cheers.
Thanks for watching mate!
Does the oxidation apply for PET bottles only? Or it'd occur with glass bottles also?
Interesting experiment..
It occurs with everything bottles, cans, glass, plastic, kegs and casks. everywhere Cheers mate!
@@HomeBrewNetwork after thinking a while the reasons I'm sure you're right. But how detrimental it is for the beer? I think it comes a time when there's no more oxidation that could occur to the beer since all of the oxygen already got into the beer.. so the solution would be to fill the bottles up to the top with no headspace? Couldn't they explode? Couldn't much of that oxidation you got come from the previous shaking you did?
Cheers!
You must leave headspace, the best solution is using a beer gun or counter pressure filler. The amount of oxygen to ruin a beer is less than 1 part per million, its extremely small. It's nearly unavoidable in home brewing, but its really worth doing anything you can to reduce it. Cheers!
Here's brief pdf on the subject Cheers! www.hach.com/asset-get.download.jsa?id=50544340453
I put the cap on the bottle and it leave it there for a few minutes before capping. Also add a squirt of CO2 to each bottle after adding the sugar. Great comparison, thanks.
Yep I used to do that when bottling too, Cheers mate!
Should have done a bottle without squeezing the air out but also not shaking. Would have be nice to see those results. I bottle with glass bottles but don’t shake. Haven’t noticed an issue really so far that I could tell
This is a great test, but can you do it again with a third, what I would call a control. Do one bottle that you don’t squeeze the air out of and don’t shake. I would like to see where it lands between the other two. When I bottle a batch, I bottle in glass and put a sugar solution in the beer before bottling so I would like to see how much oxidation happens in that control bottle.
If i had of had another bottles worth I would of, but I think everyone that bottles and kegs knows that normal bottling suffers from oxidation fairly badly, unless you flush bottles well with CO2 using a bottling gun or the like. I did the two extreme ends, well that could be done without using a CO2 bottle. If I end up with extra beer any brew soon I will do it again. Thanks very much for watching and cheers mate!
I wonder, would it be a good idea to aerate wart, say 15-30min, after pitching yeast?... to let the yeast wake up a bit and be ready to consume that oxygen right away... before the damaging process begins?
Some yeasts have suggested that in the past, I dont see a problem, Cheers!
I'm curious now how the bottles would be if you also had a shaken a squeezed bottle and not shaken an non squeezed bottle.
There are many ways I could of tried, what I did was keep the options open for people without a CO2 bottle, and trying to do the simplest, best and worst way. Cheers mate!
I even (as I showed on my channel) when bottling flush the bottles with co2. For me I get like strawberry jam from oxidized beer.
Agreed, co2 flush with a bottle gun or even better a counter pressure filler is probably the best way, the only way I avoid it is by not bottling, if it wasnt for this test that beer would be on the garden hahaha true. Cheers Dr!
any other advice for bottling with glass
Best you can do is just take it easy, avoid splashing etc as much as possible, if bulk priming do it extremely carefully. The only other way is to use a bottling gun and a CO2 tank but if you have a tank you're probably kegging anyway. Cheers!
What about simply inverting the bottle several times if priming with sugar? That would serve the same purpose surely and avoid mixing too much oxygen in.
There's no real need to though, you can if you think you need to. This was just to show what oxygen damage does, its best to reduce oxygen uptake at every step you can. Cheers mate!
why not fill your bottles with a small co2 spray before filling ?
Its possible, not very effective, I could of used my bottling gun which would of been better but this was just to show people what happens if you're not careful. Cheers!
How about doing a third bottle... add the sugar and beer, squeeze out the O2, put the cap on, then shake it?
If you get all the oxy out it should be fine! I only had two bottles left in this brew to test with, might try a bigger test next batch. Cheers!
What's the best way to avoid oxidisation when kegging
Its to completely flush a keg with co2, see link below. Then fill direct like below, or use gravity and create a loop by connecting gas to outlet to gas outlet then you can avoid using co2 to transfer. Cheers! th-cam.com/video/8xJq_moF1Uk/w-d-xo.html
Is it still safe to consume the Oxidized beer ?
Yes
Another thought for the colour difference. You said you only just made a second bottle .. could your shaken one just have more sediment, or contributed to the result. Another test in order sir.
Thanks mate.
its oxidation, the amount of oxygen that can damage a beer is less then 1 part per million, much less, something like 30 parts per billion, what I did was sped up up the process with a beer that would show it easily and a near worst case scenario of shaking oxygen into it. Cheers! I will do more tests but if you've tasted oxidation before you now what it is! Cheers mate!
Heres just a brief pdf on the matter. Cheers www.hach.com/asset-get.download.jsa?id=50544340453
last night I had a few beers out of a case of beer and two were heavily oxidised, I sent these pictures to the brewery prntscr.com/pa2th5
prntscr.com/pa2tuw
@@HomeBrewNetwork Thanks, I will look, being new to this, all information is great information!
Very good ..plastic bottles