My daughter is a barrister, and I've made her watch this scene many times. Everyone, including the devil, is entitled to the full benefit of law. If we deny it to one, we eventually deny it to all.
Scofield is lauded for this performance, and rightly so, but Hurt's tortured performance (as a young man consciously abandoning the last shreds of morality) also foreshadows the great actor he would become.
"I'd give the Devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake". Magnificent line magnificently delivered. "I am the king's good servant. But God's first.".
@@nickbarton3191 It was a joke, a reference to the film. His wife or daughter (can't remember which one) implies she is scared of him getting executed, and to reassure her he says, referring to himself, "This is not the stuff from which martyrs are made".
I played Cromwell in a college production in the 70s. I called myself an agnostic at the time, but within a year I had returned to the Catholic Church. :-)
I stumbled across it on pay cable, Showtime maybe (back in the mid-90s), right after watching some other film. I'd never even heard of it. I was glued to my seat for the duration, and when it was over I just sat there stunned. One of the best movies I'd ever seen. I've since seen it around 100 times.
This was the first film in which I saw John Hurt, when I was very young. It took me a long time to appreciate him in other things, so perfectly odious was he here.
Interesting to see John Hurt as a young man before he really developed as an actor. My all time favorite actor ever, and biggest inspiration in acting. It comforts me to know that he wasn't always a God. 👏🏻
I first saw this film when it opened in 1966. Since then I have seen it, at least 40 times- I have a copy. Of it's type I don't believe, for my part, that it has it's equal anywhere although Romeo and Juliet came very close. I have long since memorized important passage from both most especially Moore's commentary about the Law and the Devil. He well predicted the peril the PC culture portends for lawful civilization.
One of my favorite films, l never tire of it. The scene where More refuses to employ Rich, I understand Sir Thomas's reasons but l can't help but wonder how events would have turned out had he followed the old adage " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer. "
I think it would have just prolonged the inevitable. Rich might have had a twinge of conscience here, but if he was willing to perjure himself against More for the sake of money and status, he would have given into a different temptation to betray him eventually.
Much later of course, but Mark Twain also makes the point in an essay- saying that we condemn the devil with never hearing his side of the story. "It is un-English. It is un-American. It IS French. Without the precedent, Dreyfuss could never have been condemned."
In the Catholic Church, when a man or woman is held to be holy and is proposed to be canonized as a saint, they hold a court. Of law and of tradition. They have lawyers of a sort, men to vouch for a prospective saint's character, but they will also have the devil's advocate. A priest, bishop, even a cardinal charged with finding fault in the person in question. Yes, even in the highest order, the devil has his say, when needed
How relevant this is now, as now the United Kingdom plans to bridge international law, and so Prime Minister Johnson expects Loyalty. We now face a similar choice in this world now as Thomas faced in his time.
I am an atheist, and the original poster of this. If I had a dime for every time someone pointed out More's flaws and crimes versus the depiction here in A Man For All Seasons I'd have enough money for a coffee, at least. But, like, a nice coffee, with an extra shot. Despite its deviance from the historical record, it is one of the great plays of the English language, full of rich and interesting thoughts and unstoppable storytelling. If you have gripes about it not being historically accurate, I got some bad news for you about the majority of historical fiction. I'd say, consider it fiction, like the Christian mythology or God his or herself - something we'd like to be true (i.e. a man of conviction in the face of death) rather than what is verifiably true.
I'm also an atheist, and a passionate lover of this movie. I'm well aware that More the historic figure was horrible, but Robert Bolt wrote one of the best plays and movies ever written. It's beautiful language, acting and philosophy can be a lesson for everyone about being human.
I'm Catholic, but I sympathize with Luther. The Church did indeed need reforming badly (and I can't believe More wasn't aware of that), and Luther tried hard to make his complaints and concerns heard, but the Pope ignored him. I often imagine that at this point the Church was like a house on fire, burning with corruption. Sir Thomas More believed the flames could still be put out and the house restored to its former glory. Martin Luther believed the house had burned too much to be saved, and the only thing left to do was to abandon it and build a new one. That's probably a gross simplification on my part, of course.
He spelled his surname "Riche". Died in his bed, while his two bosses - More, then Cromwell - had their heads chopped off by Henry for not helping with his latest squeeze.
Oh to have lived in that period of time!! Oh to have lived in England!!! Oh to have been the king's friend!!! Oh, to have been a member of Parliament, etcetera, ad infinitum!!!
More asks if Roper could stand upright in the winds that would blow after all the laws benefitting the Devil had been cut down. Later in the movie, More walks home in gale-force winds. If you noticed that, good for you.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned around on you, where would you hide then with the laws all flat. Do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"
More: Roper, the answer is no, and will be no as long as you're a heretic. Roper: Now that's a word I DON"T LIKE SIR THOMAS! More It's not a likable word. It's not a likable thing. I disagree, Sir Thomas More. The heretic known as Corvus proved it could be a likable thing by defeating D'Sparil, the youngest of the Serpent Riders, and his many oppressive disciples. Raven Software's 1994 game Heretic proved that to my satisfaction.
Cephalopod51 He was talking about religious heresy. Heresy is open rebellion against the Catholic Church because it contradicts what Christ taught the apostles.
@@Powerranger-le4up I knew that. I was making a joke. I was also trying to parody Will Roper's style of speaking. I know about religious heresy and the history of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation. My joke was based on the idea that the game Heretic portrayed a heroic depiction of a religious heretic against an oppressive order, even though Sir Thomas himself would've been horrified by the idea. What I said wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
It's a very interesting movie. It makes More into a hero when there were very few heroes in that time period. I enjoy heroic figures in film, but I would have called this movie "What Goes Around, Comes Around" because More tortured and murdered innocent people in the name of his religion. And then he gets this treatment from the King's men, except but they were more humane than he was. I believe this "saint" is in torment today, along side King Henry, waiting for the final judgment and hell.
David Globe Punishing people who would invoke Scripture to their own twisted ends, that is the overthrow of established order once they have gathered enough force to do so, is very much justified. And St. Thomas More was right. When the "reformation" took hold Western Europe was sundered to warring factions. The unity that was needed to withstand islam was gone, and from then on only Catholics (in the West) stood in the way of the Ottomans. Look at what protestant countries have become now, they are hotbeds of liberalism and atheism.
Whatever one's religion, and I was raised in a non-religious home, I find it difficult to pass judgement on earlier periods considering the torture we visited on Iraquis who had nothing to do with 9/11 and in Afghanistan. It's a modern lawyer, Dershowitz, who has called for a "write of torture." At least kings were open about their brutality and didn't cloak it in legal justifications.
Protestants really weren’t much better and probably even worse. At least St. Thomas More knew to stick with the church Christ established instead of embracing heresy.
I will admit that I agree with St. Thomas More on this one. Inter-religious marriages aren’t usually a good idea since one spouse will always try to pull the other to their beliefs. He is also right about Roper being a heretic. Martin Luther rebelled against Jesus and the apostles and was excommunicated for heresy. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and only the Catholic Church has all of Christ’s teachings.
Feh. Luther was a man so devout to the faith he would pray in the snow until he passed out- you think a man like that cuts ties with the Church on feeble grounds? The Church has hidden its sins behind its standing and divine inheritance for centuries, and continues to do so even today. The idea that such an institution can gatekeep the blessing of God is disgusting- and is, in fact, exactly what Christ furiously condemned the Pharisees for doing.
@@PeterDivine Well, I believe Luther was a good man, but I'm a Catholic in the school of Dante. He knew there were sinners in the Church, he even put Popes in his Inferno. Nevertheless, the Church has withstood the Roman persecutions, the barbarian invasions, the rise of Islam in the East, the Reformation, the French Revolution, Bolshevism, and now secular materialism. It's been around for 2,000 years and represents 2/3s of the world's Christians. It feeds, educates, and provides health care for the worlds poor. It runs the largest charitable organization in the world. Show it a little respect.
@@trajan75 Showing respect where it's due does not mean being silent in the face of its flaws or corruption. I know full well that Christianity has ultimately done more good than harm, Catholicism especially- I personally serve as an on-call substitute as part of a Christian-based food charity that gives meals to the homeless- but to not give the church its due critique is to never see it improve.
@@PeterDivine You see it's all a matter of phrasing. It turns out we are in agreement. You are to be commended for your service to the poor. My wife does the same at our local parish.
@@PeterDivine I will agree that Martin Luther was right to call out and expose the sins, but he also taught things that were never taught by Christ. He was excommunicated for heresy, not for exposing sin.
@@Powerranger-le4up I know but the film portrays Moore as Saint on Earth he wasn't. He actively tortured people who didn't agree with him. That is not the action of a Saint or an hero. Those that tortured Catholics are no different.
Saint Thomas was protecting the Church and State as chancellor at a time when protestants did not merely want members, they wanted EVERYTHING. They wanted the people, they wanted parliament, they wanted especially the Crown to follow their their beliefs. This was not a time when Government and Religion were separate. To allow protestants to come to power was certain upheaval, as events after the deformation, err, reformation in England would show (i.e. the Civil War). Another brilliant example would be the Huguenots in France. If those people had been tolerated France would have descended into chaos even much more than England.
@@cuthbert246 The Protestants were tortured and executed because they broke the standing law against heresy and Thomas Moore, Chancellor of England was duty bound to carry out the court's sentence. IOW, he did not execute them for personal pleasure, he was enforcing the King's justice.
So, the ones who lied, and broke their own laws to murder him for politcal expediency so the King could be head of his own church, get a divorce, and have a male heir were the smart one? Moore knew he would suffer for standing up for the truth. He wasn't naive.
My daughter is a barrister, and I've made her watch this scene many times. Everyone, including the devil, is entitled to the full benefit of law. If we deny it to one, we eventually deny it to all.
RIP John Hurt, the world's stages are emptier without you
What a spectacular performance! He deserved his Oscar for this one. Mr. Scofield's timing, intonation, timbre, and control is impeccable.
Scofield is lauded for this performance, and rightly so, but Hurt's tortured performance (as a young man consciously abandoning the last shreds of morality) also foreshadows the great actor he would become.
"I'd give the Devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake". Magnificent line magnificently delivered.
"I am the king's good servant. But God's first.".
Aye, a belief that cost him his life!
We Catholics know the cost that comes with following God. We are ready to die for it.
@@Powerranger-le4up Sure... but I doubt you and me are the stuff from which martyrs are made :p
@@kh_qft762 are you sure? Better to be a martyr than to be wracked by the guilt of conscience.
Our civilisation is built on the blood of martyrs.
@@nickbarton3191 It was a joke, a reference to the film. His wife or daughter (can't remember which one) implies she is scared of him getting executed, and to reassure her he says, referring to himself, "This is not the stuff from which martyrs are made".
I played Cromwell in a college production in the 70s. I called myself an agnostic at the time, but within a year I had returned to the Catholic Church. :-)
Joseph DeMartino Welcome home my brother.
Bad luck. Perhaps you'll see reason in time.
Maybe when your head’s stopped turning you’ll be facing the right way
@@lomax343 , reason is what makes people Catholic.
@@Kacer99281 The Catholic way is the right way.
Why can't we have movies like this anymore?
anilomd. Not enough car chases and fake expolsions!
Too few great actors allowed to be great on screen . Too many bean counters think they know how to make movies .
Because most people hate Catholics these days.
Movies aren't made on merit anymore. Not even remotely close.
I've seen this so many times, I'm beginning to think EVERYBODY deserved an Oscar. Not a bad performance in the lot.
A truly great film. I have lost track of the number of times that I've watched it.
I stumbled across it on pay cable, Showtime maybe (back in the mid-90s), right after watching some other film. I'd never even heard of it. I was glued to my seat for the duration, and when it was over I just sat there stunned. One of the best movies I'd ever seen. I've since seen it around 100 times.
Sad lost of two great actors...RIP John Hurt & Paul Scofield.
This was the first film in which I saw John Hurt, when I was very young. It took me a long time to appreciate him in other things, so perfectly odious was he here.
Sancte Thoma, ora pro nobis!
Scofield deserved his Oscar, making an extremely complex man approachable to an audience.
Primarily, Robert Bolt, tho Scofield is my favorite dramatic actor. So good in The Train.
What a truly great movie
A privilege to watch this great cast act
that scene has CLASS written, acted and directed ALL over it
Interesting to see John Hurt as a young man before he really developed as an actor. My all time favorite actor ever, and biggest inspiration in acting. It comforts me to know that he wasn't always a God. 👏🏻
It's dialogue driven. I don't think most movie goers can deal with it.
Not today, anyway. That was not the case when I watched the film in Chicago at the time of its release.
Since I’m Catholic, it was pretty easy for me to follow along because I know St. Thomas More’s story
Schofield performance in this film cannot be bettered
I first saw this film when it opened in 1966. Since then I have seen it, at least 40 times- I have a copy. Of it's type I don't believe, for my part, that it has it's equal anywhere although Romeo and Juliet came very close. I have long since memorized important passage from both most especially Moore's commentary about the Law and the Devil. He well predicted the peril the PC culture portends for lawful civilization.
PC culture?
The writer was so ahead of the times , this film does not age because it’s so, so relevant to today’s problem.
i'm playing roper in my school play next week, this has really helped me get a sense of the character :-)
One of my favorite films, l never tire of it. The scene where More refuses to employ Rich,
I understand Sir Thomas's reasons but l can't help but wonder how events would have turned out had he followed the old adage " Keep your friends close but your enemies closer. "
Keen Ibsevation
I think it would have just prolonged the inevitable. Rich might have had a twinge of conscience here, but if he was willing to perjure himself against More for the sake of money and status, he would have given into a different temptation to betray him eventually.
That's not an old adage - it is a quote from that other great movie The Godfather.
He makes a very valid point about the Devil and the law.
Much later of course, but Mark Twain also makes the point in an essay- saying that we condemn the devil with never hearing his side of the story. "It is un-English. It is un-American. It IS French. Without the precedent, Dreyfuss could never have been condemned."
stnicholas54 and he’s also right about Roper being a heretic. Only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ, the rest are all manmade.
In the Catholic Church, when a man or woman is held to be holy and is proposed to be canonized as a saint, they hold a court. Of law and of tradition. They have lawyers of a sort, men to vouch for a prospective saint's character, but they will also have the devil's advocate. A priest, bishop, even a cardinal charged with finding fault in the person in question. Yes, even in the highest order, the devil has his say, when needed
Simply magnificent!
How relevant this is now, as now the United Kingdom plans to bridge international law, and so Prime Minister Johnson expects Loyalty. We now face a similar choice in this world now as Thomas faced in his time.
Scofield really steals the show as Thomas More. I saw some of the Heston version and it didn't compare.
Heston stated in his autobiography that he knew he could play the role of Thomas More better than Paul Scofield.
What a joke.
what a great movie!
The last line about the devil by Scofield...ooooh...just too good.
Great scene, but that's not John Hurt; it's Corin Redgrave. John Hurt plays Richard Rich in this film.
I am an atheist, and the original poster of this. If I had a dime for every time someone pointed out More's flaws and crimes versus the depiction here in A Man For All Seasons I'd have enough money for a coffee, at least. But, like, a nice coffee, with an extra shot. Despite its deviance from the historical record, it is one of the great plays of the English language, full of rich and interesting thoughts and unstoppable storytelling. If you have gripes about it not being historically accurate, I got some bad news for you about the majority of historical fiction. I'd say, consider it fiction, like the Christian mythology or God his or herself - something we'd like to be true (i.e. a man of conviction in the face of death) rather than what is verifiably true.
I'm also an atheist, and a passionate lover of this movie. I'm well aware that More the historic figure was horrible, but Robert Bolt wrote one of the best plays and movies ever written. It's beautiful language, acting and philosophy can be a lesson for everyone about being human.
the icon of st thomas more is on my table.he's my patronb saint.fine
Great acting all the way around. They just don't make 'em like this anymore.
I'm Catholic, but I sympathize with Luther. The Church did indeed need reforming badly (and I can't believe More wasn't aware of that), and Luther tried hard to make his complaints and concerns heard, but the Pope ignored him.
I often imagine that at this point the Church was like a house on fire, burning with corruption. Sir Thomas More believed the flames could still be put out and the house restored to its former glory. Martin Luther believed the house had burned too much to be saved, and the only thing left to do was to abandon it and build a new one. That's probably a gross simplification on my part, of course.
You’re actually not wrong at all. However, I’m not exactly as sympathetic towards Luther as you are since he taught heresy.
@@Powerranger-le4up Now that's a word I don't like! :)
This must be fake. John Hurt was never young.
Richard Rich...it's hard to take someone seriously when he has the name of a comic book character.
Less hard when one is a descendent, and knows he antedates Little Dot's deuteragonist.
He spelled his surname "Riche". Died in his bed, while his two bosses - More, then Cromwell - had their heads chopped off by Henry for not helping with his latest squeeze.
Father, that man's bad. There's no law against that. There is, God's law! Then God can arrest him.
Oh to have lived in that period of time!! Oh to have lived in England!!! Oh to have been the king's friend!!! Oh, to have been a member of Parliament, etcetera, ad infinitum!!!
I would agree with you.
You are surely kidding. Life was squalid and generally short. Shortest of all if you were close to the King.
More asks if Roper could stand upright in the winds that would blow after all the laws benefitting the Devil had been cut down. Later in the movie, More walks home in gale-force winds. If you noticed that, good for you.
Can someone please post the scene of the last courtroom trial?!? "NEVERTHELESS!!!!..."
A hundred years from now, Paul Scofield will still own the role of Thomas More.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned around on you, where would you hide then with the laws all flat. Do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"
Our civilization would be richer if he gave a lot of lessons .
Sadly, people would follow themselves instead of the teachings of the church Jesus established which is the Catholic Church.
@porkchopAltf4 It's very, very early in the morning in this scene.
I like Moore's soon to be son in law...He's honest...
And a heretic
I never realized that was John Hurt.
He was very young there. Also John hurt was in a early program of the sweeny with John thaw and Dennis Waterman. About 1975
A truer portrayal of Thomas More can be seen in Wolf Hall. It's best to view this film as residue of the HUAC era and not a historical film.
Will Roper was Corin Redgrave. Hurt was Richard Rich.
Then GOD Can arrest him 😂😂😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️❤️
The great John Hurt.
I'm not sure Schofield pulled off that yawn. His only misstep in the film.
what does he mean when he said "...Except you seem to need a clock...?"
He needs to be dependable, to look after himself -- and others.
It was early in the morning. More had just arrived from speaking with Wolsey.
I took it that he meant that Roper was visiting his daughter at an inappropriate time of night.
And yet More still lost his life ... the law protects only when it is revered.
71superbee3 Sometimes being a Catholic means being martyrdom.
Man's law is only as good as the man who honors God by being honest.
There are those to whom the law applies but does not protect and those to whom the law protects but does not apply.
More: Roper, the answer is no, and will be no as long as you're a heretic.
Roper: Now that's a word I DON"T LIKE SIR THOMAS!
More It's not a likable word. It's not a likable thing.
I disagree, Sir Thomas More. The heretic known as Corvus proved it could be a likable thing by defeating D'Sparil, the youngest of the Serpent Riders, and his many oppressive disciples. Raven Software's 1994 game Heretic proved that to my satisfaction.
Cephalopod51 He was talking about religious heresy. Heresy is open rebellion against the Catholic Church because it contradicts what Christ taught the apostles.
@@Powerranger-le4up I knew that. I was making a joke. I was also trying to parody Will Roper's style of speaking. I know about religious heresy and the history of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Reformation. My joke was based on the idea that the game Heretic portrayed a heroic depiction of a religious heretic against an oppressive order, even though Sir Thomas himself would've been horrified by the idea. What I said wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
David Globe,that is probably American financiers wouldn't touch it.
Deute. 18:9-14,
Susannah York and Corin Redgrave were talented actors but they looked amateurish when sharing the screen with Scofield.
Moore would of burned him litteraly instead of with words
This must be fake. John Hurt is
MSoulPoet
John Hurt is Richard Rich
Never watch this movie along with me. I’ll drive you crazy, reciting dialogue along with the actors.
Ironically, Sir Thomas has "no sense of the 'time'" in his staunch Catholicism and i think that is the hidden meaning of the time and clocks here.
pix046 Saint Thomas More had every sense of the time, not getting lost in the horrible Protestant deformation
pix046 Oh he had the sense of time. He rightly stayed away from the false teachings of Martin Luther.
He had a complete sense of the time but his principles were the most important thing to him.
With moors daughter.
It's Corin Redgrave in this scene.
Watch the whole clip! C;
They've run out of ideas.
It's a very interesting movie. It makes More into a hero when there were very few heroes in that time period. I enjoy heroic figures in film, but I would have called this movie "What Goes Around, Comes Around" because More tortured and murdered innocent people in the name of his religion. And then he gets this treatment from the King's men, except but they were more humane than he was. I believe this "saint" is in torment today, along side King Henry, waiting for the final judgment and hell.
David Globe Punishing people who would invoke Scripture to their own twisted ends, that is the overthrow of established order once they have gathered enough force to do so, is very much justified. And St. Thomas More was right. When the "reformation" took hold Western Europe was sundered to warring factions. The unity that was needed to withstand islam was gone, and from then on only Catholics (in the West) stood in the way of the Ottomans. Look at what protestant countries have become now, they are hotbeds of liberalism and atheism.
David Globe
You have judged him and condemned him. Jesus told us not to judge so I will not condemn even Henry VIII nor Hitler etc.
Whatever one's religion, and I was raised in a non-religious home, I find it difficult to pass judgement on earlier periods considering the torture we visited on Iraquis who had nothing to do with 9/11 and in Afghanistan. It's a modern lawyer, Dershowitz, who has called for a "write of torture." At least kings were open about their brutality and didn't cloak it in legal justifications.
Protestants really weren’t much better and probably even worse. At least St. Thomas More knew to stick with the church Christ established instead of embracing heresy.
A lesson for those who declare the Bill of Rights "racist" because where will they end up without it.
Unemployed person looking for a job: "Employ me!"
Interviewer: "No."
Employ me!
No!
"
I will admit that I agree with St. Thomas More on this one. Inter-religious marriages aren’t usually a good idea since one spouse will always try to pull the other to their beliefs. He is also right about Roper being a heretic. Martin Luther rebelled against Jesus and the apostles and was excommunicated for heresy. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and only the Catholic Church has all of Christ’s teachings.
Feh. Luther was a man so devout to the faith he would pray in the snow until he passed out- you think a man like that cuts ties with the Church on feeble grounds?
The Church has hidden its sins behind its standing and divine inheritance for centuries, and continues to do so even today. The idea that such an institution can gatekeep the blessing of God is disgusting- and is, in fact, exactly what Christ furiously condemned the Pharisees for doing.
@@PeterDivine Well, I believe Luther was a good man, but I'm a Catholic in the school of Dante. He knew there were sinners in the Church, he even put Popes in his Inferno. Nevertheless, the Church has withstood the Roman persecutions, the barbarian invasions, the rise of Islam in the East, the Reformation, the French Revolution, Bolshevism, and now secular materialism. It's been around for 2,000 years and represents 2/3s of the world's Christians. It feeds, educates, and provides health care for the worlds poor. It runs the largest charitable organization in the world. Show it a little respect.
@@trajan75 Showing respect where it's due does not mean being silent in the face of its flaws or corruption. I know full well that Christianity has ultimately done more good than harm, Catholicism especially- I personally serve as an on-call substitute as part of a Christian-based food charity that gives meals to the homeless- but to not give the church its due critique is to never see it improve.
@@PeterDivine You see it's all a matter of phrasing. It turns out we are in agreement. You are to be commended for your service to the poor. My wife does the same at our local parish.
@@PeterDivine I will agree that Martin Luther was right to call out and expose the sins, but he also taught things that were never taught by Christ. He was excommunicated for heresy, not for exposing sin.
The film brilliant but I have no liking for Moore he was a total hypocritic. Tortured to death Protestants.
Protestants weren’t much better if not worse. They did the same thing.
@@Powerranger-le4up I know but the film portrays Moore as Saint on Earth he wasn't. He actively tortured people who didn't agree with him. That is not the action of a Saint or an hero. Those that tortured Catholics are no different.
Saint Thomas was protecting the Church and State as chancellor at a time when protestants did not merely want members, they wanted EVERYTHING. They wanted the people, they wanted parliament, they wanted especially the Crown to follow their their beliefs. This was not a time when Government and Religion were separate. To allow protestants to come to power was certain upheaval, as events after the deformation, err, reformation in England would show (i.e. the Civil War). Another brilliant example would be the Huguenots in France. If those people had been tolerated France would have descended into chaos even much more than England.
@@cuthbert246 The Protestants were tortured and executed because they broke the standing law against heresy and Thomas Moore, Chancellor of England was duty bound to carry out the court's sentence. IOW, he did not execute them for personal pleasure, he was enforcing the King's justice.
Protestants were highly flammable back then and cheaper than kindling wood.
More is a bit of a twit, really, however, he is brave.
So, the ones who lied, and broke their own laws to murder him for politcal expediency so the King could be head of his own church, get a divorce, and have a male heir were the smart one? Moore knew he would suffer for standing up for the truth. He wasn't naive.
lol goddamn fanatics