LG Drops ATSC 3.0 from TVs - Will Other Brands Follow?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024
- In this video I talk about the reasons why LG is dropping ATSC 3.0 from their TVs starting next year and whether other brands like Sony, Samsung, and HiSense will follow. If there aren't enough manufacturers of NextGen TVs and tuners, ATSC 3.0 as a whole might flop like the former ATSC-M/H TV standard.
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Congratulations to LG. They made the right decision. As for encryption, I barely watch commercial television now. My mute button is just about worn out. Encryption will put the icing on the cake!
I haven't watched TV for a month or two now. I keep the TV only because I have already paid for it and there may be something I might watch.
I actually like commercials cuz I can do something like scoop the Kitty boxes and feel like I'm accomplishing something like Wash a couple of spoons😂
I'm with you. Yay LG!
So... ATSC 3.1? 4.0? I guess this is why we never heard of ATSC 2.0, eh?
Look Folks In Charge: All most people wanted was better bitrates and signal decoding quality. Why wasn't this patent thing worked out BEFORE the adoption of ATSC 3.0?! Is it possible to be 3.0 compliant without Constellation's tech? Seriously, FCC: WAKE UP!
Lord I hate commercials too.
This may not be "early days". This may turn out to be "the only days". If nobody sells ATSC 3.0 and nobody buys ATSC 3.0, the standard may go the way of BetaMax
Exactly!
@@AntennaMan It blows my mind why we could not have had a more open standard like the UK, and Europe!!
@@CommodoreFan64Thank goodness Europe doesn't have this mess.
@@AntennaMantoo late I bought my next gen a month ago, just waiting for the guy's to finish my balcony and I'm on the 3rd floor and nothing in sight just started using the 1.0 in January but the last few mths back it's been a pain in the but! I'm in the middle part of Illinois & I think it's the sister channel carrying me TV it's 48.2 Chicago but I had noticed online it says it's Indiana and it's 2.2 picture was unbearable to watch and it should have been piggy backed from Chicago to independent broadcast towers in Joliet Illinois? Unless they turn the power down at night but it doesn't say Chicago on the bottom of the screen sometimes it did and I had a great signal but just lately I noticed the change pixilated picture and lot's of times it said signal not available check you're connection? Even if I was receiving this from Indiana the mls are exactly the same!
Europe has regulators who have the courage to stand up for consumers and that scares large corporations and media conglomerates here. No way do they want to see that spread here.
DRM should be outlawed for over the air signals. Who is the FCC in the pocket of?
Comcast and other big tv companies
"DRM should be outlawed." Stop no need to go any further. DRM is evil incarnate.
Not to mention Paramount, Disney, and others.
Return of wometco home television. It's a new York thing. Wht channel 68
DRM is one of the resaons why I'm trying to get my landlord to let me get rid of Cox Cable TV. In fact if PCH koncks on my door on 10/30/2023 with the $15,000,000 an week for life check. I'm out of here.
i bought an HD HomeRun ATSC 3.0 box early on. I live near Baltimore. At first, two channels and their sub-channels were encrypted, now all the channels and their sub-channels are encrypted. This is absurd, considering the bulk of sub-channels are nothing but re-runs. I find this nothing but unacceptable, particularly since I need the internet anyway. I mentioned all this likelihood to FCC early on. It isn't "nice" to know that our "representatives" are nothing of the kind anymore.
Not interested in 3.0. I agree, the broadcaster think they see a cash cow. I doubt the public will be interested. Most people under 35 stream everything anyway. OTA was just catching on, but if 3.0 will be the standard in the future, few people will bother. Once 1.0 goes away, OTA will too.
My prime interest for ATSC 3.0 was for the improvement of reception and overall received picture quality - which is significantly better than version 1.0. Even the proximity of trees and vegetation don't interfere as much as a result. And what direct reception that can be realized is much more true 4K than even fiber delivery can provide for most. Not interested in sports so much, if I want - I can buy tickets for the stadiums. @@patrickmartin4996
ATSC 3.0 initially appeared to be a good iteration of OTA TV, but with all the shenanigans going on it might be just as likely to kill it off instead.
I'm totally with LG dropping support! All this encryption shenanigans has me totally with companies dropping it. We need to stop this, antenna tv will ALWAYS be free!
(p.s. nice to see you uploading frequently again)
I believe that over the air TV should be an open signal without encryption that's accessible on any device. If networks don't want to abide by this, they should give up their broadcast license to an entity that will better serve the public.
Agreed I hope Sony and the other companies follow
@@AntennaMan I agree like it was in the day of Analog tv !I don't feel bad for networks they have cut their own throats trying to be to greedy as you say it should be about the consumers .
@@AntennaMan I think they should surrender their license and pay a fee to help someone else to fill the void.
Atsc 3.0 I fear is basically a technology that will allow over-the-air broadcasters to charge for broadcast without the added cost of fiber, satellite, or cable. If I'm correct it will also be the next level of Big Brother.
A lot of people have this fear. Broadcasters basically say "trust us" but I don't know that I trust them without a law backing it.
@@AntennaMan i dont, OTA signals should have never been encrypted because it hinders the public access to "information"
@@AntennaMan I wouldn't say it needs a law backing it, A better way to put it is it needs is a rule book so everyone plays the game by the same rules. Right now its every media capitalist for himself and no one knows where the goal line is.
@@AntennaMan It doesn't need a law, laws are broken all the time by the powerful. Any broadcast standard, starting _now_, needs to have any internet back-channel requirement - or even option - taken out of it.
Anything like this can be abused. And since I’ve learned all this, then it really doesn’t seem to matter. OTA TV is on “life-support”. And with shows like “The View” don’t help it. ‘It needs to go to the hospital, now!!’
Imagine anyone bothering to encrypt a TV channel showing Family Feud.
Yes😂🤣😂🤣😂 It’s just GREED !!!
I'll actually echo your point in an upcoming video. You'll see me dress as a pirate and try to give away bootleg copies of Inside Edition, Judge Judge, and ABC World News with no one interested.
Also, I look to see older movies on the
Internet from the 1970's and 1980's and
often the provider charges for them even if they are 40 or 50 years old 😮
Good point! What on OTA TV is worth the effort of pirating? They don’t show many movies. Episodic shows would have to be recorded week after week and you still probably couldn’t charge for them. Do they actually have a problem with it now? I doubt it. Maybe there are a few shady streaming services that rebroadcast content, but if they get too big, they will get shut down, and they’ll probably find a way around the DRM anyhow. They’re just going after people who don’t subscribe to cable and want to timeshift their content, which was declared perfectly legal.
Yeah seriously when outside paying my monthly T-Mobile 5G home internet bill, I can stream Family Feud 10 different ways for free on my Roku, and Android TV devices 🤣
Seems the ATSC 3 group screwed up the format. Way to go guys.
Yes, the Advanced Televisions System Committee really messed up the future of this TV standard by choosing a closed source audio codec that requires licensing (Dolby AC4) and demanding DRM encryption on over the air broadcasts. If DRM is going to be used on broadcast TV, I'd rather have ATSC 3.0 flop.
@@AntennaMan i have to fight against subscription services, terrible DRM and 'everything as a service' in my day to day life enough as it is. i REALLY don't need my television to do this to me, too. where's the line?!
@@LemSportsinterviewsYar Har har is the only way to make them listen.
@@AntennaMan The issue if this flops is their will be people stuck with paid TV services due to the multipath interference issues with the ATSC 1.0 standard. In addition I doubt it is going to die since broadcasters have spent way too much money to abandon and will just shut off the ATSC 1.0 signal regardless of how many people have complaint tuners.
@@techguy3236 I mean, the same thing happened to MUSE Hivision in Japan, analog HDTV transmission only lasted a few years.
So, the story of HDRadio repeats again.
It’s official, ATSC 3.0 won’t phase out ATSC 1.0 just like HDRadio hasn’t even been able to phase out AM.
This has been fresh on my mind! I was holding off purchase on a Tablo device as I learned the 3.0 transition will likely be delayed!
I feel I can safely get a Tabko device now and not have to upgrade to ATSC 3.0 anytime soon!
Don't hold out on buying anything that isn't ATSC 3.0 as ATSC 1.0 is not going anywhere for a very long time. ATSC 3.0 might even flop. See video below: th-cam.com/video/8Kjj5xVZ5nY/w-d-xo.html
Which is weird since they're owned by Scripps now
@@AntennaManI hope you do a review of the new Tablo. I have a 4 tuner with a lifetime subscription. There will be an update later this year on it.
Great, I was planning on buying a new tv just to get ATSC 3.0 as it just came out in my area. I guess I will have to rethink that plan.
Not an issue for me. When I can no longer watch air TV, I'll stop. I'm already disenchanted with the amount of propaganda & censorship in the present day air TV.
Everything will be streaming by then anyway...
Even the shitty overpriced cable TV channels like crappy TBS and sensorship loving USA will sensor "dirty" stuff out of movies and lie about it and blame it on advertisers, however the SAME ADVERTISERS WILL RUN ADS ON TUBI TV ON A MOVIE THAT IS UNCUT. CABLE AND BROADCASTERS CAN STICK THEIR SHITTY AS SENSORSHIP MOVIES UP THEIR FUCKING ASS.
Back in the past local TV channels were locally owned & operated. That is not the case anymore. Big national media companies own local channels.
@@amazingeric97 Yes, indeed. It is the like the adding to taking away diginets. Corporate calls the shots. The local stations has no say. I am happy streaming is where it is today. No longer do we have to depend on OTA stations for many diginets. There are a few exceptions like Antenna TV & Rewind. Nexstar has those .and they are not available for streaming. No one carries them Fortunately we have those channels. But Nexstar messed around with the Sports Gird for a year and then finally dropping it and adding Rewind. Rewind was out for one a year before Portland's Nexstar station finally added it.
The roll out of ATSC 3.0 is a perfect example how to mess up the launch of a technology. DRM & now the drop of a large TV manufacturer seems to be another nail on the coffin called ATSC 3.0. By the time consumers will have access to the new system on a broader basis, if at all, they'll be mostly streaming content
My LG tv is nice, but it drives me absolutely nuts how often they change their channel line-up and bug me about updates. The whole "Smart tv" junk is just dumb, as 99% of the time for me it's just a computer monitor that nags about updates.
That's why I bought a Sceptre 4K dumb TV, and just attached a Roku 4K stick, and a Google Android TV 4k dongle too it.
The FTC should require any OTA broadcaster to provide a 100% free experience for viewers. It should be the way it was when we only had analog TV.
There's like 18 people in the US that care about shitty free TV....and they're all nearly dead
@@josephrowe2202 'I want my MeTV'
@josephrowe2202 someone is not up to the times. Phoenix sports teams just kicked regional sports network model to the curb, and the Sun's and Coyotes are broadcasting their product for free over the air.
@@josephrowe2202
You could be dead tommorrow
That’s what the switch to digital was really about.
OTA distribution vs Internet distribution are a ever changing pendulum regarding content, features and costs.
Local TV stations still do not recognize the threat posed by FAST. I already have friends that have no live TV and no paid streaming service. They're just watching Pluto, Tubi and FreeVee. They're even getting their local news this way. These streaming services are following the model TV used to follow when it first started: "I'm going to make it easy to watch this and you watch my ads in return". I fear ota could die due to FAST unless they wake up and start making it easy to watch instead of living off retransmission fees. There are PLENTY of players out there giving out content for free (only adds).
I agree!
I was always excited about ATSC 3.0, from a technical prospective, as it had so much more to offer. However now it seems to have become a total debacle. This LG lawsuit is going to set a precedent and Sony & Samsung will likely take note and also abandon the 3.0 tuner since they are at risk. Over $6 a set in royalties is ridiculous and so is DRM encryption. Two year ago I bought one of the first ATSC 3.0 tuners to only find now that half the channels are DRM blocked. I now predict that 3.0 will become a huge failure and we can only blame the FCC for that.
As an over the air viewer I had been very excited about ATSC 3.0 because it has a much improved transmission capability. But watching the DRM and now patent issues has soured me on the technology. I'm somewhat surprised by the patent kerfuffle, when standards committees are developing a standard they normally work with patent holders to come to licensing terms before incorporating the technology into the standard or developing a non-infringing way to implement what they need to do.
Yes! I can't believe they didn't lock in costs for the developers BEFORE incorporating the technology. This is just insane. Also, the lawsuit covered only the TVs already sold. LG didn't want the $6 license when the GROUP of other technology holders agreed to $3 for a license. This will kill ATSC 3.0 if not resolved. Even if not sued, I don't think the other companies will agree to the $6 single company charge either. @AntennaMan
improved over what? mine is worse, never had a problem with the signal for no reason stopping while watching, having a little spinning circle that sometimes stops sometimes doesnt so you have to turn off the 3.0 tuner and on again and maybe that will fix it.
2 Years ago I'd hoped that NextGen TV was going to catch on, but now, I'm not so sure. There needs to be a compelling reason to buy an ATSC 3.0 TV and there just isn't one. 4K is the #1 reason why you'd want ATSC 3.0, but let's face it, the broadcasters are in no hurry to do that. They only want the new standard to broadcast targeted ads to consumers.
DRM encryption is the elephant in the room as far as ATSC 3.0 goes. Now that the FCC finally has a chairperson and commissioners confirmed by the US Senate, I am hoping the FCC will now attempt to tackle the issues regarding the ATSC 3.0 standard, especially the patent and DRM encryption issues.
I recently bought one of those LG TVs with ATSC 3.0. NextGen was one of the reasons I got it, but not the most important one. I live in the Washington, DC TV market. Every time I try to watch one of my local channels in NextGen, the screen just says “scrambled.” Maybe that’s because LG has quit pushing new ATSC 3.0 software to me. Oh well. It’s a decent TV even if I can’t really use the NextGen capability.
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Thanks for the update. Bad news for 3.0. I give up waiting for it. Time to move on.
Constellation Design Inc shot themselves in the foot by suing LG. Now the other television manufacturers incorporating ATSC 3.0 will also contemplate dropping ATSC 3.0 to avoid a lawsuit with Constellation Design Inc. Also please understand that when I bought my ATSC 3.0 Sony television more than 2 years ago I didn't even know that it had that feature when I was looking at it in the Target store. I was thrilled and happy that the Sony TV had ATSC 3.0 when I bought it. Also Baltimore and Philadelphia are now broadcasting in the ATSC 3.0 format. These broadcasters made a financial commitment to do this, but they are caught between a rock and a hard place if TV manufacturers cancel ATSC3.0. The broadcasters in Philadelphia and Baltimore aren't going to be happy with Constellation Design Inc for suing LG and starting a domino effect with Sony, Hisense and Samsung. Constellation Design Inc: you screwed up big time on this one because you're greedy.
I’m gonna roll with 1.0 as long as possible. When/if it’s done, I guess I’ll be reading lots of books. 😂 No plans to pay for TV.
Same here. I live 50 miles north of Boston and can get tons of Boston channels with an antenna. They have ATSC 3.0 in Boston, but I've neer seen it. Don't want to spend the money on something I don't need and may never need.
I don't really give a shit anymore what happens with OTA. Nothing I've tried that Antenna Man recommends has been reliable for me. My only options are satellite and streaming.
There are very few things I want to watch over the air anymore. Just sports mostly. I rarely subscribe to streaming services either.
I had an LG TV. They dropped support for apps until it morphed from a smart TV, to a regular TV. Never again LG. So the fact that LG dropped 3.0 means zippo. RIP LG.
Sounds like my Vizio. The best thing I can say about my Vizios is at least they're cheap.
Gradual eroding of smart TV support happens with every brand. It also happens to standalone streaming sticks and boxes. You have to go in figuring that the smart features in your TV have a lifetime of five years maximum, and that you'll have to augment your TV with a separate streaming device after that.
LG went from an old smart TV software to WebOS. Old TV’s cannot support WebOS due to Hardware Limitations. The Technology has changed.
Unfortunately things like this and DRM only mean that 3.0 will fail or may already be dead like 2.0. There will need to be a 3.5 or 4.0 to ensure these issues can't happen before it reaches general adoption. At least 1.0 won't go away for a long time.
I doubt it will succeed unless DRM is removed and I think that is what the broadcasters want. They’re already pressuring the FCC to sunset ATSC 1.0 and that would mean an end to free OTA TV and the only way to get the content is to pay for it. If that happens, the broadcasters should have to pay billions for the use of the airwaves because they are no longer serving the public. I hope the FCC or congress steps in and ends DRM and that will save ATSC 3.0.
A 3.5 standard could correct the major mistake of using proprietary audio and video codecs. Base it on AV1 and Opus instead; no royalties there!
Instead of rushing out another ATSC 4.0 standard, perhaps manufacturers will develop second-generation ATSC 1.0 converter boxes and dongles with improved tuner performance. It's been 20 years since ATSC 1.0 was introduced, and newer technology could offer incremental improvements in weak-signal sensitivity and adjacent-channel selectivity as well as improve reception of low-VHF. ATSC 1.0 could remain a viable OTA system for several more years. Finally, if the industry stays with ATSC 1.0 the FCC could work with broadcasters in geographically-challenged areas to relocate their transmission towers to optimum-coverage locations, i.e. in the Seattle DMA, moving most transmitters to high-altitude West Tiger Mountain.
I think, a different improved digital standard will arise, and ATSC3.0 will disappear like the HDDVD format did years ago.
ATSC 1.0 is just fine. we dont always have to try and make something "better"
Multipath interference stinks on ATSC 1.0. Live around trees or an airport? Say goodbye to reliable reception!
Yes you are correct. Free OTA ATSC 1.0 TV without DRM and internet updates is better than DRM ATSC 3.0.
4:16 - Required updates for future support... well lots of TV companies are gonna fail with that obligation... Smart home things tend to suffer from the same issue, no security & support for things like true home appliances Garage Door Openers, Fridges, Smart Door locks and wonderfully now even your TV! 😢
Honestly I'd be just fine with this whole ATSC 3.0 thing if it wasn't for the fact that it's capable of DRM. 4k display and better reception sounds fine until you realize that all these once free channels can now be locked behind a pay wall and there's nothing the law can do about it.
4k is pretty much a streaming thing locked down by DRM.. pretty strongly. All because people are paranoid of piracy. It's what killed DAT in the US also.... same general idea.
I mostly have antenna for local news. Local news is great during severe weather. But I don't have the money to invest in new equipment. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one.
The problem is most local channels are owned by national media companies that care more about money in retransmission fees from cable, satellite, & live TV streaming services than actual viewers that get the channel for free with an antenna. There are very few locally owned & operated local channels remaining. There is not a lot of demand for ATSC 3.0 right now. Many people would like to have free 4K content that currently does not exist.
I’m kind of mixed on LG’s decision, I want to be able to get more wider signal from an antenna. But if ATSC 3.0 is going to open the door for DRM, it’s best to stop the DRM standard from impacting free and easy to tune in television! Because DRM has been a failure in digital video distribution, it never really stop piracy!
Subscribed. I had seen a couple of your videos a while ago. Then this one popped up today. Always interesting, useful and very helpful information.
6:42 And it isn’t available here in the #1 media market: NYC. There is a low power ATSC 3.0 station on RF channel 6 running ethnic programming but no high power station due to lack of free spectrum. It might be an omen to ATSC 3.0’s future that the #1 market does not support it 😮
I'd have to recheck, but I think every broadcaster in the Los Angeles area did the ATSC 3.0 set-up earlier this year, but all of their ATSC 3.0 channels are encrypted. With the colossal mess this is becoming I'll probably do what I did when the analog-to-digital switch occurred and wait until the last minute to switch to ATSC 3.0
As I recall, there were some declarations from the FCC in the early days of digital paging and cellular, something about “essential patents” and the holders of those patents had to license the technology at reasonable (whatever that is) rates. This was to encourage continued development, etc. It apparently worked, owing to the continuous improvement/evolution of cellular. I am surprised the FCC has not made such a declaration in this matter. Of course, if ATSC3 were to be abandoned, the billions already spent by many stations. Would be wasted, it to mention the monetary losses of the manufacturers like LG, as well as the consumers who were early adopters. Personally, at 69, I am sticking with ATSC1 because there is more than enough content available via streaming, I only need local stations for weather or emergencies. Greed and stupidity are going to doom the 3.0 standard to an early grave.
As I've said in other comments ATSC 3.0 is going to fail. I don't want it to but it will indeed fail
Totally agree. Too much garbage to go through, even if you receive the channel and DRM doesn't mess it up.
Between needing to be connected to the internet and the DRM, I am totally disappointed with ATSC 3.0 and will likely not consider going out of my way for a tv with that mode. Heck, I'm getting old to the point where SD is starting to look OK.
I don't even know if it's transmitted here in San Antonio. Don't have box either.
Tyler, your screen presence is improving. You seem to be more comfortable with filming yourself. Keep up the good work.
Interesting to see what's going on across the pond in the US around broadcast TV. The new ATSC 3.0 standard seems to be driven by greed and control rather than what is best for consumers. I'm quite glad that here in the UK there is an emphasis on free-to-air Public Service Broadcasting. Also, like a large part of the world, we use DVB-T/DVB-T2 for over the air TV and DVB-S2 for satellite. A very good selection of free-to-air stations that I can pipe into TVHeadend on a Raspberry pi and record the raw transport streams to disk, both 576 and 1080 resolutions. Our main Public Service Broadcasters, BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5, some of them with multiple channels to their name, and a few other free-to-air non PSBs too, adding to the mix.
Whilst I know DVB fully supports Pay TV / encrypting options, there seems to be support for maintaining open easy access to a good selection of channels. Give it another 10-20 years however and broadcast TV as we know it might vanish completely, replaced by streaming only. Who knows!?
@@InterestedTuber Correct! We do have to pay the TV Licence which is £159 per year "for a Colour TV licence"which works out at around 44 pence per day. (Yes, you can still pay just £53.50 for a black & white TV only licence!) It funds the BBC. The licence is a hot topic over here, but personally I don't mind, given that for that 44p per day, I get BBC1, BBC2, BBC Three & BBC Four, BBC News, BBC Parliament, BBC Alba television, National BBC Radio stations Radio 1, 1xtra, R2, R3, R4, R4xtra, R5, R5sports xtra, R6,, Asian network, BBC Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland, a BBC local radio station (in my case Solent) and the BBC website/ iplayer. None of which carry advertising. The BBC World Service radio station is part funded by the licence, part by government funds as it's target audience is outside the UK, a bit like VoA.
I imagine when the TV licence becomes difficult to enforce, it'll be transferred into general taxation, just like the NHS healthcare system funding. But yes, regardless of paying the "telly tax", anyone here can pick up BBC free to air! TV licencing rely on a big database of addresses to work out who doesn't pay & send out goons to check if you're watching!
You're better off ditching DVB-T and sticking with DVB-S, as there are far more channels available in HD on DVB-S, such as ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, Sky Mix, Quest, EarthxTV, QVC, TJC, most news channels, etc.
Picture quality on DVB-T is also terrible as well, with most channels are at 544x576!
@@Connie_TinuityError I use both feeding into TVheadend on a raspberry pi. I can pick the best feed according to channel bitrate quality. Some channels are DVB-T only. In any case, programme quality is more important than video quality to me. If the show is good I'll watch it on a black & white 405 line picture if needed!
We went from, buy this TV to buy this box for your TV to the box is in the TV to, let’s destroy broadcast television.
Bought a Sony Bravia TV, did the setup scan, got my local NBC, CBS, ABC and Univision for the first month. Has the ATCS 3.0 tuner. Now just get the Local HSN channels 6 of them that's all. This in the Tampa Bay area.
The thing that gets me is that they could have made more money with ATSC 3.0 but they had to be greedy and enforce DRM. This kill D-VHS. We could have had a HD video format in 2002 but they had to prevent recording TV shows in HD unless you had a new TV with a Firewire connection in order to prevent piracy. The DRM would often prevent people from recording even if they had the require expensive equipment so the format died in 2004.
They don't want us to have anything good. Wonder why walmart and best buy no longer sale CDs. Crappy scratchy analog records is all these bastards sale now. Give these shitters a few more years and they'll take away our DVDs and replace the format with crappy VHS and charge $129.98 for one episode of Family Fued. Then they'll bring back 500 pound CRT TVs.
i guess a fragile signal is better than an encrypted signal...
Yes, it is. For what it's worth, I found ATSC 1.0 to work well in most areas. The key is to set up a decent antenna (not an itty bitty small one) and use a signal meter as a guide to find the best location to install it.
I've never even heard about atsc 3.0 or next gen tv until watching your channel recently to learn about antenna installs. I'm a person who has avoided buying a smart TV due to all the corporate crap in those, so might be less in the loop than normal people.
I was going to drop tv altogether if ATSC 3.0 went through. I am not paying for OTA programming. I am fine with what I have now.
Maybe greed will kill the ATSC 3.0 standard? And maybe that will not be bad?
Conspiracy theory: ATSC 3.0 exists to convince channels to channel share their 1.0 broadcasts (so there’s room for the 3.0 test channels). Then the fcc will abandon ATSC 3.0 and do another repack.
The way this rollout has gotten screwed up at the expense of viewers, with so much lost potential of the technology, is just disappointing.
Tried the Zapperbox, unimpressed. Glad that it is looking like ATSC 3.0 is in trouble I see no value for me the consumer over ATSC 1.0. And like most technological wonders that are "just around the corner" Most of it is vaporware, or if of even slightest improvement behind a pay wall. The only thing I see coming with ATSC 3.0 is landfills with piles of still working but obsolete TVs. Guess who I think the FCC is working for...
ATSC 3.0 is not much of a standard if it's always changing and needs a internet connection for updates. Do you think grandma and grandpa will understand that TV doesn't work because it needs an update.
Great… seems like we’ll never get superior multipath decoding, better low signal handling, HDR, or 4k OTA.
Not without paying fees or subscriptions.
The HDCP protection was enough already. If they are going to force paid subscriptions then it deserves to fail. "Free over the air" TV should be just that, it should not require an Internet connection or anything else to receive broadcasts. We may need that capability in the case of a national emergency.
I'm not thrilled considering all the carriage disputes, additional subscriber fees for local TV, etc broadcasters are already getting, on top of the increased amount of advertising in their shows.
This is like the battle what new refrigerant to use in air conditioning systems.
You have R32 being adopted in Europe because it works good and doesn’t have a patent.
It’s free for anyone to manufacture and has a lower cost.
But of course here in the states you have some manufacturers pushing to use other newer patented refrigerants that of course are more expensive.
The Solution is stop buying these "Smart Tv's" and just buy a normal Tv with a great display and numerous inputs and /or sound options and leave the signal processing to external boxes. That way you can simply upgrade your box or software as when and if needed as these greedy corporations change the rules from time to time. Also consider going back to simple VHS or DVD's for your movies etc these actual physical media are now sold in thrift stores so cheaply that you may never have the need to pay for internet streaming channels again. Let them fight over 100% of $0.
Yes,if you want and got a non smart tv with a hdmi box and buy a firestick or Roku.
Is it possible that an old Sony TV from about 2005 might be having tuner issues with what's going on with the constant channel reshuffles around ATSC 3.0? I have an outdoor antenna and our newer TVs all tend to keep up with all of the channel changes around the ATSC 3 shuffling. (Orlando and Tampa markets). But this older bedroom TV seems to be either sluggish, or not able to pick up some channels that it used to. Yes, I've done many re-scans. I haven't been able to get that TV onto Fox35 Orlando in ages. That station's co-owned 65.1 is also problematic, but 65.2, 65.3, and 65.4 are OK. WESH 2 is sluggish. It'll say no signal, but if I leave it there, a signal pops in around 10 or so seconds later. Didn't used to be like this before the repacks and subsequent goings-on.
Yes, some TV stations are broadcasting in MPEG-4 which won't decode on some older TVs. The workaround is to order the external tuner below and connect it to your TV with an HDMI cable: amzn.to/3ZPfgCY
The government should step in to get this sorted out. Having an internet connection to decrypt channels is ridiculous. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having OTA channels? Maybe that's the plan all along. OTA need this technology to be somewhat competitive to costly streaming services.
Everyone has internet, at least on their cell phone. So, why not broadcasters band together and ditch OTA entirely and go IPTV/streaming? Then companies like YTTV or Hulu Live or the local cable company could offer a smaller package that is locals + essentials only and not overcharge on everything else. I'd pay (granted, I wouldn't pay a lot) for local channels if that was the only way to get them.
I blame the FCC. How could they allow a new television standard to be approved without hacking out an agreement with the manufacturers over patent rights. Now some company must devise a 4.0 standard that is different enough from 3.0 that clears them from paying Constellation Designs for their technology. This puts the screws to this company. I reiterate, the Federal Government needs to pony up money for new set top boxes for all Americans such as they did for the rollout of ATSC 1.0.
They did the same irresponsible crap for the AM Stereo standard by not making a standard. And then allowing companies to compete and go after each other-good one!
The FCC shouldn't approve a standard that they don't own. Then once approved they can make it public domain. Companies can still innovate and get compensated for their work. And the public won't be held hostage by patent owners.
@@jamestucker8088 kinda like what they did with AM Stereo formats, and the current HD Radio mess!
DRM kills new products. RIP DRM ATSC 3.0 TV.
I had high hopes for ATSC 3.0 as despite having a top end Winegard antenna and amp I have difficulty receiving my local (Tampa) NBC affiliate. Every other station comes in great in including several independent's. So frankly I just ignore NBC.
Planned obsolescence, your 1080 tv from 10 years still kicking, well now you cant watch TV anymore without buying a new TV every five years.
The problem with ATSC 3.0 isn't encryption. I have been watching TV since the around 1960. My first favorite show was "The Flintstones." Around 2000 my buddy gave me a TIVO and said it was going to change my life. I didn't believe him - for about 10 minutes. To this day I have never watched another commercial or a show live. At a minimum I have to pause the content for 5 to 10 minutes so when the commercials appear I can fast forward. The DVR that came with our DISH TV satellite was such a piece of unusable slow advertising-puking show-discarding garbage I cancelled the service.
From what I have read is that ATSC 3.0 will try to force me to watch TV live like I lived in the 1900s again. That I have to have commercials rammed down my throat. If that is true, then ATSC 3.0 is as good as the Space Shuttle Columbia.
Good to hear your video. Thank you for tv update Tyler.
Love your channel. I learn a lot from your videos. Thanks for keeping us updated
Thanks Tyler for keeping me in the KNOW !!!! :) 😊
This lawsuit from Constellation Designs and LG's reaction to it reminds me of how Immersion went after Sony and microsoft back in the ps3/360 days for use of copyrighted vibration tech in their controllers. Sony's reaction was similar to LG's in that they just ditched the vibration tech - at least for a little while. It's funny how these companies only decide to sue after the tech has been out for a while instead of making sure they've secured a deal with the companies before the product is released.
If ATSC 3.0 ends up failing, I think it won't be so much because of the patent troll as because the whole package had become unwieldy with too many features and too many stakeholders trying to wring a buck out of it. As a result, you get counterproductive crap like DRM etc. slowing it down until the public had no idea what it was for and the OEMs didn't want to deal with the tech requirements.
I think it would have worked better if they'd kept it to changes that directly improve the broadcast experience - newer, more efficient codecs to allow for 1080p and 4k, including on the subchannels, plus the tech changes that would make the signal more robust. The other stuff is just there because it put dollar signs in the eyes of Sinclair execs, not because it would do anything to benefit viewers.
ATSC 1.0 is a dinosaur these days, but at least it was designed with the audience in mind. If they really want to update it, they should remember that these are public airwaves, and what goes out on them ought to benefit the public first and foremost.
I kinda knew it was going to be about $$$. I remember when they first starting talking about it saying things like you can rent direct, targeted ads, higher number of sub channel #'s has money written all over it.
That stuff is fine, but they should keep free OTA TV free and you should be able to record.
@@jeffreykoerber6595 I agree all I'm saying is FREE OTA was always going to be last on the list of priorities
good for LG. don't feed the patent trolls. I believe that if you don't actively USE a patent you don't get to hold it.
It will just push people to pirate everything. And cut the ads.
Other than the added Licensing cost, it would be better to wave a "software override wand" and allow bypass, back to prior versions
well for ATSC 3.0 to become a success....... i think it needs to go "Open Source", no Patent for encryption and such, anybody can work on it and improve it, otherwise TV makers ( like LG ) will just drop it and its done for
Normally I'd say Constellation Designs is acting like a patent troll waiting this long to sue but given the standard seems to be a ploy to paywall OTA tv... I'll say go ahead Constellation, and sue everybody till you kill the standard and scuttle your own IP and maybe even your entire business... 😈
Yes they are acting exactly like a patent troll. Though they did botch this with their timing. Yes astc 3 was getting sorted and moved to being implemented as a standard. By suing LG now and winning they got a bit of a war chest now to go after the other manufactures. Where the screwed up though is not one of the manufactures has fully committed to this yet. Some do make the new tuners but as was shown by the settlement it's relatively few in total. In this case it would be better for all the OEM's to cut their losses and say they to are dropping 3 support. This puts constellation in a pickle. They will probably get some money from the others. But that big score they were hoping for is just killed by their actions.
We were planning to buy an ATSC 3.0 TV soon until we found about the DRM.
I have been thinking about getting the LG G3 which has the 3.0 tuner. Will this still pull in my local stations through the antenna ? Currently none are broadcasting in 3.0.
Yes, all NextGen enabled TVs also have ATSC 1.0 tuners built in.
It's time for the FCC to do for digital TV what they did for NTSC TV. When color, stereo sound, and language choice were added, the monaural B&W TVs continued to receive the programming. After the absurd choice to make everyone's TV useless, the FCC has allowed cable companies to charge extra to receive standard definition signals of local HD broadcasting, allowed local broadcasters to transmit signals that do not effectively cover the same area, and now they are allowing the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese manufacturers to try to make the digital televisions we were recently forced to buy obsolete! The digital transition was a last ditch effort to keep American television manufacturing alive. By the time the FCC terminated NTSC, American television manufacturers were gone. The foreign manufacturers and entertainment owners now want to charge you money for everything you watch on your new digital television that you have to buy from them.
Any thoughts about the new Scripps/Tablo acquisition? The newest device advertises internet streaming of 40 live stations.
Is ATSC the same as ATSC 3.0? I am looking at LG - 75" Class LED 4K UHD UQ7590 Series webOS Smart TV 2022.
ATSC is the Advanced Television Systems Comittee that makes TV standards. ATSC 1.0 is the current TV standard used by most TVs and ATSC 3.0 is the next generation one that's launched in several markets. You can find more information in the video below: th-cam.com/video/8Kjj5xVZ5nY/w-d-xo.html
Wish they would leave 1.0 alone and add more channels with it and better picture quality
So my current concern is will LG use a software patch to REMOVE ATSC 3.0 support from the existing Tvs. When I needed to upgrade recently, I carefully reviewed looking for a number of specs and one was indeed ATSC 3. I ended up with the , LG QNED85AQA , which was a costco SKU that includes(d?) ATSC 3. And, I have had to seek and install updates after getting decryption errors on some Birmingham AL market channels. ( I think it was WBRC ) Now I am assuming that at some point, they will either remove it--or refuse to update to keep decryption working. What do you think Tyler??? Likely that LG will kill the function on these existing models?
Likely you will at some point as LG refused to pay the royalties. The 3.0 chip also does firmware updates too so that might cause it to expire. The whole 3.0 system is about to self terminate.
How about LG fix the broken input switching on their TVs first
This could be something that upsets the apple cart. Manufacturers are already paying around $50 per ATSC 1.0 set just in licensing fees, on top of parts costs and labor. Constellation's award of almost $7 per set is disproportionately large. Unless there's some negotiation on price, expect at least one of the others to walk and leave 3.0 floundering.
Perhaps there should be a class action against constellation designs by those who lose support for their TV because of their actions.
no, the class action should be for the ones that came up with the DRM SCAM in the first place. actually, i'm happy that they sued because it will hinder the wide adoption of this invasive technology
Any class action suit would more properly be aimed at ATSC. It is _their_ job to make sure any standard they create and promote is cleaned out - or at least has a map made out - of any patent issues involved in implementing the standard. Madeline Nowland has outright stated that this isn't ATSC's responsibility, and I think she's dead wrong.
What's the cliff notes version of what kind of drm is in ATSC 3.0?
If they don't have a television tuner then by definition aren't they just over-glorified large screen monitors?
I heard the difference between a TV and a monitor was a TV has a built in tuner and a monitor just has a display and input.
If everyone's abandoning atsc3 then, by definition, no one will sell a TV.
Everyone will be selling monitors.
I understand it's a technical point with almost no difference except the difference by definition.
I bought a new Sony Bravia X90K a few month ago. One of the Must Have non negotiable features was ATSC 3.0 tuner. I am in the Dallas TV market and like having the option of antenna OTA tv. I wasn't about to spend $2,000 on a TV and need to have an add on box down the road. LG is being short sighted IMO. BTW, there is so little 4K content OTA it isn't worth it right now. My 15 year old Series 3 Tivo HD already catches OTA broadcasts in 1080 so the ATSC 3.0 tuner isn't doing much for me yet....but we are close enough that future proofing this is a no brainer IMO.
I can see that being talked on TWIT's Home Theater Geeks show and this Sunday on Ask The Tech Guys.
And if ATSC 3.0 crashes and burns...maybe it would be a good time to start making noise about DVB-T again.
The whole "problem" seems to me to be one of not money, but intellectual property control. ATSC is not a "free" system, but one where there's always been patents and usage licensing and so on. And there's A LOT of money tied up in ATSC's development, which goes all the way back into the 1970s. So there's corporations that don't even exist anymore who've got dogs in this fight!
Not to mention how ATSC's current standard is cold garbage in the first place. It is simply not robust enough to survive much of any atmospheric interference. Basically, you know the drill... your neighbor sneezes in his basement next door, and your screen turns into Piet Mondrian's barf for the better part of a minute. That sort of thing. Even if I have line-of-sight to the tower and it's crystal clear out, just a bit of a breeze is all it takes to wind up with the typical psychedelic visual nonsense.
I've seen a couple of clips on here where some ham ops out in the Denver area did some fast scan comparisons, with one of those being a shootout between ATSC, DVB-T, and analog, checking distance until LOS, stability, all that fun stuff.
And it came out as:
1) DVB-T
2) analog
3) ATSC 1.x, with this in a distant last place. The signal's outmoded modulation scheme, with no forward error correction, DOOMS it in terms of coverage distance and interference tolerance.
Clearly, ATSC 3.0 is deader'n hell at this point. Losing LG, given their market share in home entertainment, is probably a death-blow. But that leaves us back where we started...UNLESS some push to get FTA programming delivered via DVB-T can pick up steam.
Plus, all of the manufacturers at present are very familiar with that standard, since it's in use just about anywhere that isn't North America and it's gotten much better traction anywhere it's in use.
No, the players who don't want something they can't control in this case has to be...drumroll pleeze...the cable companies.
They're the only ones left who profit from having essentially useless OTA signals. If you want to watch local channels without dealing with visual gobbledygook, your two choices are to either futz around with antennas until you collapse in a heap of multipath-induced despair, or get cable
Oh, yeah...that third choice I forgot: give up on local TV altogether, forcing local broadcasters to go dark. This actually appears to be most peoples' reactions, though, and losing local coverage will probably be disastrous. Perhaps literally so in places where weather can take out a transmitter or cable system, leaving locals with ZERO information on a dangerous situation. Someone should ask the ATSC Group if they bargained for people to possibly get killed because they can't pick up their signal standard in an April sprinkle, much less in the face of an incoming mesocyclone. Have any of the ATSC Group's people ever seen what a little town out in what used to be fringe coverage before digital looks like after an F4 drops on it? I'm betting...no.
Perhaps the FCC can quit slicing up the public's airwaves for cold, hard CA$H for a few minutes to perhaps consider a petition to abandon ATSC altogether in favor of what the rest of the planet's enjoyed all this time. Or not. Who the f**k knows anymore about the FCC anyway...😵
The United State will never accept a world standard for TV. For some reason, we have to make our own as a way to be ahead of the world when in reality it's behind.
Best comment on any topic I've seen in a while. Thanks for the entertaining read.
Constellation may redefine the term "pyrrhic victory." The won their own way to instant obsolescence.
If i buy a TV with ATSC 3.0 but i only have 1.0, i pass from this problems? personally i think this new standar the first time they said DRM i ran away, everything with DRM im out.
If it wasn't for the local news, we wouldn't even need our antenna. Frankly, the news wouldn't be that hard to live without.
Broadcast TV is definitely on it's way out.
The DRM crap is enough for me to avoid ATSC 3.0 all together. I'll stick with ATSC 1.0 until it completely disappears or if the DRM stuff on 3.0 is not a thing. I hope they all drop ATSC 3.0 tuners.
One should never expect any corporation to intentionally do anything for the good of the people. Their motivation has always been and always will be profit. That's the nature of the beast.
Remember when Satellite Dishes - the big ones - were becoming 'common'? They began encrypting the signals which where designed for the cable providers since home owners could just 'stream' their own programing and could choose which coast's satellites. Meanwhile we sit and watch technical and business maneuvering into the digital age.
The only reason why I would need a nextgen box is due to weak stations in the Boston area. There is a tower on a mountain in Goffstown that has WMUR WPXG (WBPX Simulcast) and I am pretty sure it has WWJE (Formerly WBIN) so I could possibly get Next-Gen TV where I live since it is closer than the Boston ATSC 1.0 signals? There are is another simulcast in boston on WUNI (which is obvoiusly too weak also.) Anyway I got a GOOD Televes antenna to be able to recieve, which I think is a "Trash Low-Band VHF channel" yes trash on idk... oh yeah WGBH on RF channel 5. Similar to Tyler's problem with 6ABC which i've seen the videos, so I can imaging WGBH being a lot worse. I am pretty sure I am pretty likely to get that with a GOOD antenna because Low-band VHF has further range due to the technological differences of Low-High Band VHF and UHF, but Idk though. I am pretty sure WGBH is a lot further away. I already paid for a TV reception report which I might have to do again because there was a Dilapidated barn encroaching on my parents' property which blocked a lot of signal and google maps just got updated in June 2023. The barn got took down in 2020, so even when he checked my address, it was pretty out-of-date. Tyler looked at the old map on Google, I also trimmed a lot of the Forsythia bushes in my yard. Rabbitears.info and The FCC website are currently out-of-date, i think. So it might take some time to get it sorted, the same thing with this ATSC 3.0 mess. I am pretty sure if I pointed it east, I could probably get some Maine channels too, I believe which just simulcast the major networks out of Boston anyways (like the major sports channels.) The main problem which I am concerned about is IF and WHEN the Portland-Auburn market turns into ATSC 3.0 and the tuners are DMA restricted, any information on the DMA part of that? The Maine channels are 1.0, atleast, for now. Anyways, good work Tyler!!!
That's the only reason I would recommend a NextGen tuner for anyone - the better reception aspect.
Don't see any signal improvement on the 3.0 here. On the few channels it's on it's no more reliable than the 1.0.
I wouldn't spend any more money to adopt it.
ATSC 3.0 can be more reliable than ATSC 1.0 in locations where there is a lot of multipath (tall buildings or trees) but in many locations, it may be about the same or slightly worse than 1.0.
@@AntennaMan You're probably right. I don't live in a location with large structures nearby. But I have noticed the 3.0 signal behaving very similar to the 1.0 here. When one has a problem, both do. One is no more reliable than the other.
I'm afraid it's going to go bust because of everyone trying to cash in .
I'm in the NYC area (New Jersey) and still can't get WABC - Channel 7 at all. I know that it is still on the VHF band, but previously it was the strongest receiving station. Now I can't get it at all. I have a indoor antenna (since I can't place an outdoor antenna on my apartment building), and have a Sony XR 75X90J with a ATSC 3.0 tuner built in. Reception is good, except for WABC. We still haven't gotten any 3.0 signals yet. Any solutions for this? @@AntennaMan