Figure Skating Scoring, Scandals and the controversial Quad Axel (4A) Base Value explained!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2022
- Just tune into Olympics to watch figure skating? Always feel confused about the scores? What do they mean? What's the difference between the scores for ladies and men and other disciplines? What are some rules used to score figure skating? What are the two different sets of scores - TES and PCS? And what's the score the Quadruple Axel? After watching this video, you will understand how incredibly difficult and how criminally undervalued this jump is! No, even if Hanyu lands that 4A in the Free skate and foot perfect, he wouldn't be able to win if his rivals skate clean. The problems are all lying at the system, not just the judging. Let's take a look!
Starring:-
#yuzuruhanyu - Yuzuru Hanyu, Yuzu, 羽生結弦, Юдзуру Ханю, 柚子，哈牛，ハニュ.ユズル, 羽生、柚る | GOAT (Greatest of all time) | Reigning Olympic Champion | Team Japan
#Nathanchen - Nathan Chen, 陳巍 Натан Чен, ネイサン・チェン | Quad King | Team USA
#kamilavalieva - Камила Валерьевна Валиева
#Annashcherbakova - Anna Shcherbakova, Anya Shcherbakova, @Dear_AnyaS, Dear_AnyaS, Анна Щербакова, АннаЩербакова, アンナ・シェルバコワ, A・シェルバコワ, 安娜·谢尔巴科娃, 安娜·謝爾巴科娃, 謝爾巴科娃，千金 | Ice Fairy, 俄罗斯花滑小仙女, 高颜值俄罗斯少女
#Alexandratrusova - Alexandra Trusova, Sasha, Sashatrusova, Sasha Trusova, Александра Трусова, Саша Трусова, Сашаtрусова, СашаТрусова | Quad Queen，4回転女王
#Shomauno - Shoma Uno, 宇野昌磨， ウノ.ショマ, Сёма уно
#yumakagiyama - Yuma Kagiyama
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After Hanyu's SP today, many people are asking how much 4A is really worth? Can 4A be the ultimate weapon? The problem is, nope 4A is the most criminally undervalued jump in figure skating history! In this video, let us bring you the ins and outs of every aspect of figure skating scoring, the design of the system, the base value, GOE and PCS. Scandals and controversies. And most importantly, how those base values are not designed according to how they should be! Still we wish Yuzuru Hanyu will land that 4A and fulfil his childhood dream jumps!
Thanks for the video!
I hope Yuzu lands a 4A too!!! That would be so awesome!
I mean they actively don't want people to try it because the chance of injury is so high. The only reason Yuzuru is going for it is that it's his white whale. It's why they reduced the value of the Lutz, too, no? They want to reduce the incentive for people to try it.
@@jenroses sometimes the BV change is also due to political reasons. Example, 4twist and throw quads base values were changed post Pyeongchang and they become lower. I head that Rusfed petitioned for them to get reduced because they're dangerous. But also at the same time they continue to advocate to allow women to jump quads in SP. This have made S/H potential 4twist attempt being devalued compared to M/G 3S-eu-3S.
So I say the reason that it's "dangerous" is bullsh*t, if feds have athletes who can do them they will advocate for high BV becauee it will gave them advantage.
Yeah there's always politics involved when the scores were designed and big federations will have bigger influence. That's the sad truth about this sport. Honestly it's not unique to figure skating, it happens as well in gymnastics and diving etc. Really we are just watching it because it's beautiful and try to support the skaters we love as much as possible, because it's really not easy for them to compete in this sport, highly risky and costly and low rewards..
😢
I think the principle of keeping 4A low is to discourage skaters from trying it at all. The ISU knows for a fact that the bv is too low. So you've got to respect Yuzuru and his commitment to the sport for trying it anyway regardless of its low bv.
Yes he's always challenging the jumps like 4T-3A, 4A etc regardless of the low bv.. Just wish he will do well and be happy on 10th!
No, that's not why.
Scoring don't matter if you land a 4A, even if you come last overall, you still become a legend.
Despite the result, all the time, always, we will be with you 💞💞💞💞 #YuzuruHanyu. 'cause you are the best in all technics, art, soul dancer aspects, sensitive, bold, determined and happy person. ❤️❤️❤️ So beatiful human being! We love and be with you, always. #olympics #olympics2022 #Beijing2022WinterOlympics #yuzuru #figureskating #japanteam #Yuzurufan
Yuzuru 👌🏾 got it!
If Yuzu lands a 4A, honestly? His score wouldnt matter lol. He'll go down in history (or in his case, another one in his repetoire).
But 4A or no 4A, podium or no podium, I pray for his good health and complete recovery. I'd rather he not win anything but recovers 100% rather than breaking his body.
Yes 4A itself is history!!!!!
@@FigureSkatingFan yes indeed! So happy when ISU recognized his 4A!
@@moon-bean It's very taxing for the body. And he fell and injured his back and ankle when he trained for it :/ it's that damaging. Especially due to his age (27)
@@moon-bean IKR 🥲🥲 look at his ankle's pic after the Olympics... I can't 😭 I want him to get what he wants so bad, but at the same time, wanna beg him to be mindful of his health 😭
as a former professional ballerina of 15 years, I think people tend to forget this is a sports. We practice similar jumps off-ice, however ballet is more concerned with beauty and elegance while figure skating is literally doing the technical elements with literal blades attached to the feet--it's far more complicated and far more beautiful than simply ballet on ice. I'm currently anxiously waiting for the men's free program, fingers crossed for Yuzuru!
Thanks for sharing beautiful ballerina!! All of us will have our fingers crossed for Yuzuru forever!! 💓💓
Totally understand that. I did Ballett for about 8 years, much shorter than you, but everywhere I go, about 70% of the people will underestimate the extreme difficulty of it and I always get so mad when people make fun of it. Same for Figureskating. It may look easy what they do, but that's the goal. To make it seem easy and light despite the difficulty. That's why Yuzu is my favorite. His level of elegance and lightness on ice is breathtaking
Figure Skating coach here - I keep my skaters away from ballet jumps because they are to open and rotate to slowly for figure skating purpose. The fact is, the technique for these jumps is so fine, they need to be done nearly technically perfect, which requires absolutely no turn out during the jump, and tight rotation, and at specific points in the air.
Dance is absolutely required to teach the body about movement, performance and give them the tool box needed to perform at the highest level, but skaters should stay away from dance jumps, the technique is different and will train habits that aren't desirable for figure skaters.
@@coachleif same rules apply for ballet-one of the first rules is not to bend your knees, yet it’s literally the first rule of skating 😅 I now skate recreationally and it was super hard at first to even adjust to the idea of bending my knees lol
@@kikikookies2039 yes exactly! I think they are two completely different branches that shouldnt even be compared int the first place. and same, Yuzuru is my favorite of all too, he has this ability to encapsulate the audience and telling a story through skating that brings the performance to levels no other skater can, it’s certainly magical
I never failed to understand figure skating and didn't care much for it, but what made me watch it was because of yuzuru. He is truly from another planet, constantly striving and setting many goals even though he is a legend himself. If yuzuru retires in the future I will stop watching figure skating and will forever remember those moments. engraving inspired by yuzuru.
forever remember those moments. engraving inspired by yuzuru. 👆👆👆 Yes remember these days. We may feel silly 10 years from now. But it's always good to have these emotions. Just want to thank Hanyu and (other skaters I've been rooting for) for these special moments 💓💓
Yes! He cares about winning which is natural of a sportsman. But more than anything, he cares about the sport and the artistry, that's the nature of a master.
Hi, i feel the exactly the same. Well said. My family too, from Australia.
Same. Got interested because of Hanyu wayback 2014
I completely can relate… I was like that with UFC one guy KHABIB!
Now he’s retired I’m not interested as before I knew about him.
I’m gunna check this guy out.. he sounds like the Khabib, Eminem, Lewis Hamilton, Tiger (I know rap isn’t a sport but people who took their profession to the next level.)
Hope that kinda makes sense and thanks for the heads up. 🙏🏾
right? you have a jump that is nearly impossible to land, a single human, who at least tries and you give him just one extra point. ridiculous. it's like isu don't want skaters to do anything new :(
😫😫 feel so powerless...
yes its absolutely the true
Alsolutly. It was the same with Trusova when she strarts to do multiple quads. She also get really bad judging for a long time. Just because the ISU was not happy and I´m sure is still not happy that she did that. One quad or two ok. But doing 3 -4 -5 quads was not ok. The ISU have to undestand that´s it´s a SPORT.
I think they keep the BV low to discourage the skaters from doing it. It's a very dangerous jump, even one of the greatest skaters of all time hasn't mastered it. I sure hope he lands it at the Olympics though!
@@the_piano_diva then they should've banned it as they did for backflip, right? besides, it's a sport, it's always dangerous. look at the pair skating -- you literally can stick the blade in your partner or break the girl on the ice at any moment, it's much more dangerous than 4a. afais, the only difference between them is that pair skating have been there for longer :(
anyway, cheering for hanyu~
Yuzuru is changing his 3A 2T into 3A 3Lo in the upcoming FS!! One of the rarest jumps mentioned in the previous video. I'm literally crying for his courage and endurance
Really???How did you know that? Ahhhh I wish yuzu all the besttt!!!
Not surprised he's making changes but where's the sauce?
@@pennyinheaven it is posted everywhere in the chinese community
@@Jamie-ej7gt I saw it on the Chinese social media, it is written in Japanese so probably it is released by their skating authorities??
Well, he knows gold is virtually impossible but boy is he going to fight for the podium! With the points being so close, a point extra might be the diff between no medal and bronze.
I knew, as I strongly believed, that Yuzuru realized how useless his effort to improve and advance the level and impact of "figure skating" became, when his short program was terribly scored and his 4T+3S or 4T+3T combination was ignored by the judges, at the 2017 Helsinki game. It was evident after he achieved his childhood dream of winning a gold medal at the PC Olympic game, his performance lacked something, losing to Nathan Chen's jumping skating. I felt sorry for Yuzuru. Yet, he continued his efforts, as he said many times, that the successful landing of 4A is the only remaining motivator for his skating life. I wish ISU had recognized Yuzuru's "true and pure" desire to upgrade and advance the figure skating, to a level of what it is supposed to be: a comprehensive sports of beauty, music, and skating technicality.
No offense but it’s a cooking show🤡 everythings a cooking show now🤡
This is nothing against Nathan Chen, I'm totally for him being on the top, 'cause he's the best jumper out there. That said it's sad seeing this skaters who put so much effort in their elegance, entertainment, overall performance and still getting a low scoring because they can't jump well. I'm not for giving the 4A 20 or 30 points, 'cause this would probably force figure skating more into a jumping show...that said... really?!! just one point more?!! How about you give more points for artistry, ISU?!!!
I really wish that Yuzuru can feel all our love and admiration for him. It’s just so hard I can’t wrap my head around. He made the figure skating so special and beautiful and to see that that’s being ruined it’s heartbreaking. Especially then he says why? what did i do wrong?
I honestly cried after reading that "why? what did i do wrong?"..
@@FigureSkatingFan When did he say that? :(
When was that? When did Yuzuru ask what he had made wrong?
It's sad that Yuzuru got me into figure skating and the first thing I got to know about the sport was it's corruption and immense scandals.
I saw so many people saying that he should drop the 4A from his program cause it's just not worth it and I get so sad and angry at such comments. Like the isu underscoring that jump is not his fault. It has always been his dream to land that jump why should he drop it for a medal that he already has plenty of at home?? Today he did the first ever 4A attempt at olympics and it was his best attempt yet. He is a true legend for making a near impossible jump almost within his grasp.
Damn I know Yuzu has been underscored since after the 2018 Olympics, but today is really really makes me wonder about the judges credibility.....
Ikr, 4A is the most undervalued jump in the figure skating history! Just feel so unfair about this. How comes its base value to be just 12.5 and there's only a 1.0 margin compared to a much easier 4Lz? I mean, seriously? Anw, legend is still legend. And the GOAT will aim for what he wishes to achieve, set aside how corrupt the current scoring system can be.
P.S: Thanks for the informative video! 🙏
legend is still legend. And the GOAT will aim for what he wishes to achieve 👆👆👆
As someone who only became a fanyu not too long ago, I don’t think I’ll stay in the figure skating world after Yuzu retires tbh. It all just seems too frustrating with the scoring system + scandals and this sport imo has reached its peak already which is amazing to see.
tbh same, I think I became a fanyu when Yuzu won his second gold in 2018 and I have been following figure skating ever since. I think I will still watch some programs from time to time, but definitely not as hardcore as I am now. How should I say this, mmm, Yuzu makes it more enjoyable, I think. He makes it feels more positive, in my opinion.
Is he retiring? He just got to Beijing 😭
@@maddy4877 He said he won’t retire until he’s satisfied w the 4A but I read an article just now that said he might not want to continue doing the 4A so I have no idea. 🤷♀️ 🥲 We will just have to wait and see. Hopefully he’ll continue going for the 4A since he’s literally so close to completing it 🤞🤞
@@mystery-mm6xd if he said it himself I'll believe it yk thank u 😭
Love how yuzuru hanyu cares little about scoring, but more about crafting the history of figure skating. And he did!! The first certified 4A!! Well done hanyu. We are so proud of you 💓
This was excellent. Mura and Oda are correct about not just quad axel being undervalued, but I've taken those 3A and quad (T, S, Lo, Lz) falls while learning them (back in the 80s and 90s), and the difference in the score between 3Lz and 3A should be more...and doing 3Lo 2nd in combo should increase in value as well.
Couldn’t agree more!! 3A and 4T should have almost the same score. -3Lo combo should get bonus +1/2. And 4A? It should be at least 5 points more than 4Lz! And 4Lo should have higher score than 4Lz / F as well!
@@FigureSkatingFan 4 Loop should definitely be higher I totally agree !
Yuzu's amazing 4T+3T earlier in the sp (Beijing Olympics) don't deserve a 3 point GOE from the judge... it's perfectly executed, everyone knows that...it just doesn't sit right with me..
Also how can they give him an 8.75 score on Performance and Interpretation of the Music in PCS?
Given the difficulty on a 4A it really doesn't make sense how a 4L is only one point less when a 4A is significantly harder and requires a lot more body strength and just overall beyond human capabilities
Imagine you being able to go against physics and just get one point more for it =_=
4Lz is actually worth more points per turn compared to 4A.
4Lz: 11.5 pts / 4 rotations = 2.875 pts per rotation
4A: 12.5 pts / 4.5 rotations = 2.777 pts per rotation
Add to the fact it's so common to see a pre-rotated lutz by half a turn on the ice nowadays, it's actually 3.28 pts per rotation. In contrast it's harder to pre-rotate the axel unless you are Nathan chen's backxel.
I would think that the ISU doesn't want to change anything...and if they decide to change, it is "to make the judging easier" than difficult. That is why they didn't set any higher score than 12.5 for 4A. It is intentional "discouragement" to any skater who would dare to challenge the most difficult jump, 4A. They don't want to see any more complex, difficult jumps, and they always refuse to recognize Yuzuru's effort to upgrade the entire level of figure skating. For the ISU, Yuzuru was an "unwelcoming" challenger. They prefer simple scoring. Yuzuru challenges them with more difficult, yet more beautiful techniques and jumps. Somebody has to speak up and tell the ISU to think of the future of this sports, not of their own preference or favoritism.
Harumi H.
Did you see the Italian commentator M. Ambesi (who has a lot to say about Yuzuru's skating and what he has contributed to the sport, and the judging system): ( th-cam.com/video/8ZSt5V8KwgA/w-d-xo.html )
It's translated into English and you can watch the parts you wish. Excellent , worth watching. Your comments are right on!. Thank you.
man i wish he knew that all of us are cheering for him no matter what the result would be
Be sure he knows.
Your nickname 😂💜
@@baudolino2727 ARMY i am yes😂
Yusu is special.... Apart being the GOAT in figure skating, he also showed us with his manners and atitudes the great human being he is....an example of the real values of life ... That's why Yusu has a great meaning in our lives... That's why we love him so much... That's why he's touched the fans hearts from all over the world. I dare say that Yusu's spirit is from another dimension, but he is here to collaborate, awakening the best within us.
Thanks, Yusu! Namaste!
羽生當然知道4A的分低，但是他不放棄，這是他的夢想，祝福他，加油!
I literally thought that 4 Axel's base value would be like 20 or 25 . Only 12.5 ??? That's insane!!!!!
i mean, i totally agree, but if Yuzuru does it, everyone will talk about that, and he will no longer be just a olympic champion, but a legend. He will be the first and only person who ever has done the quad axel in figure skating history, the hardest most challenging jump, that alone is breathtaking.
My personal point of view...
@@AnaGuerra03 you are right that's something much more valuable than the points
Why people dont see it? I mean at 2015 when yuzu is at his peak, he literally broke records. After that, he did not do it again. Why? Obiviously, his skating skills..his tecnical ability have been improved a lot because of the training he puts in all these years. His programne are more complex and yet why he cant do that anymore? Its not because of him, its because the score they gave him compare to others. Thats what i believed. Make sense to me.
Totally agree👍👍
Exactly there’s major improvements in his performance today and yet how come those scores never come close to his previous world records in for example 2017 or 2018? It just doesn’t make sense. :/
in japan, some people don’t cheer Yuzuru and post some negative things 😭😭😭
I find that Many people support him here !!!
I am really moved in those comments here
What??!! Really? Can’t imagine anyone putting Hanyu down! He had won 2 golds for Japan and that’s enough!! So rude they are!! Share it to those people!! We foreign fans love and always support Yuzuru Hanyu!!!
是吗？他为日本拿了两次奥运金牌，19次打破记录，他们那些日本黑粉还想怎样，有本事他们自己去比赛，我心疼羽生结弦，永远爱他支持他，来自泰国
Yuzuru is incredible! What he has done for the sport is epic! His accomplishments speak for themselves, there is nobody like him! He is the total package! I just love him!
Удачи,Юдзуру!!!Пусть у тебя все получится!!!Пусть случится чудо!!!
Да случится чудо!!! 🙏😜
Thank you for breaking down each of scoring and judging "patterns" to watch for. Now it is clear how some biased judges wouldn't follow the guidelines. Skating analyst expert, Maximilliano has been correctly criticizing the ISU judging system. Personally I feel always frustrated, when we - "audiences" - feel "amazed and moved" by a soulful performance in the beautiful and flawless skating of Yuzuru, and the judges wouldn't give scores that Yuzuru deserves, while the judges gave higher score on the jumps of other skaters which looked like the skaters forcefully took off and landed, leaving a big edge hole on the ice. Remember what the Ice workers mentioned about the ice condition after Yuzuru skated? They said that they didn't need to fill ice on the hole or smooth out the surface of the ice after Yuzuru skated, meanwhile they needed to fill holes, smooth out the surface of squid marks made by the edge of skate shoes after other skaters' performances. Yuzuru is a perfectionist, and once he commits to it, he wouldn't miss any flaw in his performance, from technical elements, edge works, body movements to the musicality, artisty, and interpretation of the theme of music. If the ISU judges make his performance "miserable" by giving unfair and biased scores on PCS and GOE, I would cry, I would send a protest letter to the ISU.
我只看羽生結弦的表演，看到他不滑為止！我會收藏他所有滑冰表演❤️
Зрители болеют за того или иного спортсмена, и только катанием Юдзуру Ханю все, без исключения, любуются, наслаждаясь, восхищаясь, умиляясь, улыбаясь и не скрывая чистых слёз радости и восторга!
Низкий поклон тебе, Юдзуру, человеку, который научился летать, и зовёт всех за собой вперёд, к мечте, к Творцу🙏
Ханю - человек со звезды, звезда фигурного катания. Его упорство восхищает. Полет гордой птицы!!!!
Он зделал катание зрелищьным. Спасибо ,что он есть.
Здоровья. И осуществления мечты.
Гений. Подарок бога.
Да, он навсегда звезда фигурного катания! 💕💕
Такие люди, как Юдзуру это оправдание человечества перед Создателем!
That's probably why Nathan isn't as liked by the figure skating public overall. It feels rigged in every way possible. Like a forgery. Not his fault (since he isn't a boastful guy and always looks humble, despite his coach who seems to be arrogant, and Nathan is very consistent with his jumps), but certainly he profits from the judging and how it works today.
Not just him but the Russian girls and ice dance too. Scoring just doesn't make sense anymore. Chen fans will complain and nitpick about the Russian overscoring then keep silent when his scores come out
Nathan isn't as liked by the figure skating public? If you're talking about fans, it's because the majority of the public are sour, hypocritical fanyus. There you are, talking about Nathan's scores being rigged but you completely ignore it when the same crap happens to Yuzuru because you'd rather stick to the false BS that your favorite is underscored. Look over what the judges gave Yuzuru in terms of PCS scoring for his Olympic LP in which he had 2 major errors. Nathan's was a domestic competition, as the video says. Yuzuru's was an international competition, the Olympics. Are ya'll gonna turn a blind eye to that and not also complain about rigging for Yuzuru? You're gonna like Yuzuru less now, right?
@@divinearia1601 Sad part is there are more fanyus than the fans of figure skating. People watch figure skating because of Yuzuru, period. Nathan just cannot attract people no matter how many jumps he does in one program.
Yuzuru hanyu patinajin en başarılı sporcusudur. Gelmiş-geçmiş en iyi patendir
感謝翻譯以及影片製作人員~
我也一樣對於雙人跟冰舞步怎麼了解...
但對於4A高於4Lz只有多一分非常的氣憤
結弦在這次短曲因為冰上有洞而空跳這件事，讓粉絲們都超難過...
住他4A跳成功!長曲順利，站上頒獎台!
祝他4A跳成功!長曲順利，站上頒獎台! 這是現在大家都期待的事了吧！加油！羽生結弦！
I'll say it tomorrow Yozuru will shine his show and become the first ✊🏻
Ханю очень красиво катается.смотрю только из за него.чувсвенно и качественно.спасибо.
Yuzuru é maravilhoso, nada vai ofuscar seu brilho, na minha opinião não existe nenhum igual a ele, não é só técnica, tem uma elegância que nenhum deles tem 👏👏👏
Yuzuru ❤️😍
How ironic that you posted this after the ridiculous PCS scoring that we just saw...
Can we talk about the scoring cause I'm confused! Even if he popped his 4Sal 95.15 seems obscenely low. The rest of his skate was clean with solid technique so why is his score so low? If we assume he got a score of 110 with the 4Sal then we're assuming the 4Sal is worth 15 points and it can't possibly be that much!
So what happened to the scoring? Was he underscored or was his overall performance not up to the mark? Would he even have a higher score than Yuma if he landed the 4Sal?
I'm really confused about this.
Cause if the judges are underscoring him they've probably decided who they want on the podium and it's not Hanyu.
Sorry for the long comment. I needed to vent :')
@@somegirl21 Yuzuru is fairly scored in TES. For some reason, he didnt get that much height in his combination jump as he did in Jnats (only .5m). His edges are not as precise either so his PCS is lower than expected (also affected by the pop in his sal). If he landed the quad and skated as well as he did on Jnats, then he will surely be able to get at least 111, but defintely still below nathan. I think nathan's pcs is a bit overscored, but he still would have gotten first regardless.
controversial, but imo yuzuru is also a bit overscored in pcs. fanyus dont kill me please. The one that os really underscored here is Jason Brown. he should have at least 49!!!
@@somegirl21 Corruption. That's what happened.
If you look at the score sheets, you'll notice that some PCS of certain skaters were very inflated, while some other skaters who were known for their skating skills and performance were not getting the scores they deserved. ISU has decided who they want to help and who they're giving up, it's just quite sad.
@@moreandmore4378 Respectfully disagree about Yuzuru being overscored in pcs. You're telling me that his 8.75 in interpretation of music is overscore?
Completely agree regarding Jason Brown though, and several others too actually.
I've been watching figure skating since my childhood, I can recognise all the jumps etc. I can tell you just hearing QUAD and AXEL in the same sentence is terrifying. Landing a 4A is equal to breaking the speed of light.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone lands 5T before 4A is landed for the first time. Purely because Axel is not hard only because of the rotations - the motion of the jump is the hardest of all jumps anyways. There were skaters who struggled with 3A but had bulletproof 4T.
For these reasons alone - if Quad Lutz has 11.5 base value, Quad Axel in my opinion should have at least 24 haha. No number should be too high - you deserve to win if you land the 4A and don't screw up the rest of the free-skate.
Yuzuru, you always will be the best!!! Never give up!
Go Yuzuru !!!!
Tal vez otros puedan obtener mejores puntajes y solo les importe los récords pero ninguno se podrá comparar con Yuzuru que patina mostrando su amor por lo que más le gusta, que trata de hacer algo diferente, algo imposible que sabe que tiene la capacidad para lograrlo pero nadie a intentado; esto no se trata de puntajes sino del belleza que hay en el patinaje y como se está perdiendo con las nuevas generaciones que se dejan llevar por números
Vamos por ese 4A Yuzuru!
Considering only TES, Yuzuru needs not only 4A but also 4T for second jump or at least 3loop. Or maybe 4Loop twice.
Or someone changes 4A BV to 15.5 tomorrow lol I would highly appreciate it.
If they would keep the scoring at 12 as the BV for a 4a (which is ridiculously low) they should allow yuzuru to have 8 total jumps and consider the 4a as added value of 12 bonus points if landed successfully.
I don't think two 4Lo are allowed. They made the rules complicated. If Yuzu lands 4A, my guess is they'd change its BV AFTER this event, which is gonna be unfair but that's what Yuzu will offer to change the game yet again.
@@pennyinheaven you’re right. I should’ve said, 4loop & 4loop-3T (ofc if so, he can’t jump 4T twice though)
Yeah. it’s ridiculous that they haven’t changed the BV yet. I mean why did they even give 12.5 points for 4A from the very beginning🤷🏻♂️
@@water9951 Well that is the question. All they have to do is follow the damn pattern.
Imagine being the first to land the legendary 4A and they don’t give you the gold because they give it a criminally low score. Like what’s wrong with the ISU??!
Fighting yuzuru !!! Hope all the wishes of yuzu will come true, pls do a perfect 4A in free program as wish, all the best, you can do it !!! and stay safe, take good care of ur self :)
Obrigado por nos trazer esse video esclarecedor . Espero que Yuzuru consiga realizar seu sonho. É sempre gratificante ver as apresentações de Yuzuru Hanyu. Sua performance é perfeita. 😍😍😍😍
Kinda unrelated but can we talk about the scoring for today's SP cause I'm confused! Even if he popped his 4Sal 95.15 seems obscenely low. The rest of his skate was clean with solid technique so why is his score so low? If we assume he got a score of 110 with the 4Sal then we're assuming the 4Sal is worth 15 points and it can't possibly be that much.
So what happened to the scoring? Was he underscored or was his overall performance not up to the mark? Would he even have a higher score than Yuma if he landed the 4Sal?
I'm really confused about this.
Cause if the judges are underscoring him they've probably decided who they want on the podium and it's not Hanyu.
Sorry for the long comment. I needed to vent :')
it does seem to be the case of underscoring. the same program with a proper 4sal had gotten around 112 in jnats but in the olys, he popped a sal and the score suddenly became 95 sumn. there can't be a 17 point difference in the same program.
To be fair in his WR of 111.82 he got a total of 14.13 for the 4S. His components were slighly lower here because of the huge error and the program didn't have the same energy after he knew he'd made a massive error.
His 3A was given only around +3 GOE. 7 judges don't think they are good enough for +5. It happens to a lot of skaters (except the one they wanna promote), like when the skater makes a mistake, judges will start withholding their GOE bonus for the next elements. As for the PCS, the 2 judges who gave 8.75 was criminally low! Other than that I don't really see any issues. Basically if they were to be less harsh, Hanyu would get like 1-2 points more and probably in the first group to skate. But at this point, nothing will change! Just hope Hanyu has a great comeback in FS!
So basically the jump did cost him a lot.😢 Thanks everyone!
Finally Yuzuru on ice and first jump. - when “that” happened i felt like i was died inside... i was crying a lot .. I'm devastated now …😞😣😭
Eu não entendo muito das regras e das pontuações de cada dificuldades e partes artísticas, mas eu percebi nessa madrugada que havia algo de errado sobre a pontuação da série dele, pois ele foi incrivelmente bem e só teve 43 e pouco de dificuldade. Eu imagino o quão frustrante é pra um patinador, treinar horrores e na hora de executar o que batalhou tanto pra conseguir, os jurados simplesmente agir dessa forma, roubando! Mas estou na torcida de que o Yuzu vai conseguir dar a volta por cima disso tudo!
4A scoring is outrageously low n unjust
whereas the gap btn triple to quad in all other jumps in percentage is more than double and in absolute numbers more than five
this inhuman just receives 57% higher marks than the triple and 4.5 pnts higher than the tripple
i dont know about 30 pnts, but at least 16.5 will start to do the jumper justice
Yuzuru's Joker moment: It's not about getting the points, it's about sending a message.
I watched this video and i want to cry. Understand you ,thank you for showing me how brave and patient you are. It's okey just finish 4A, want to see your smile 4A is a gift for all fanyus, thank you Yuzu💓💓we love you
Юзуру, мы с тобой!❤
Ive research that Yuzu has been breaking world records however since Isu updated their rules in 2018, it seems like everything reset? I feel like it effect is as if wiping Yuzu’s achievement & in a hurry to promote new Athlete, is what i think wrong? Is this feeling wrong? Pls let me know, but i do know that yuzu 2014-2017 been breaking record under isu2004 rule
The records before and up to OG18 are named historical records. They're not erased. They will stay forever.
Harika bir kanala sahipsiniz. Skate ile ilgili en doğru ve en anlaşılır bilgiye bu kanaldan ulaşıyorum. Thank you so much😍. and love Huzuru Hanyu😍😍
On average nobody has really landed a quad axel let alone any quint jump. So the base value given is somewhat of a guestimate and an exclusive point reserve for yuzuru because nobody else has really attempted to put it on their program. Based on how the average growth of points for an axel between rotations, it should technically be at 14 - 14.75. It’s the GOE that would need to change to reward its difficulty.
The reason it's as low as it is, is because of the posibility of someone landing it just past forward and getting an < which gives 80% of the base value. If the base value was 14.75 as you suggested then a just past forward 4A< would be have a bade value 11.8 which is higher than a proper 4Lz which would be absurd! Remember the change to 4A base value was made when they jigged the scale of values to make sure a screwed up quad wasn't worth more than the clean triple of it.
@Ben Bailey well I understand your argument and logic behind. Using ur logic, the current scoring of 3A< = 6, still higher than 3Lz (5.9). Because it's that difficult. In contrary, 4A< will be 9.375, lower than 4T. Whereby a screwed up 4Lz< =8.625 is still higher than 3A (8). See your own logic and the irony behind?
@@FigureSkatingFan Don't necessarily disagree with you. The reason was about flawed quads scoring insanely high, hence the change to all the big quads. I was just telling you the ISU reason by it's 12.5 not arguing in agreement with it.
@@benbailey159bb Yes i understand u pointed out how all the quads were devalued and the reason behind. U mentioned before in another video too which I remember. That's ISU's reason but again, we are just using math to attack the irony behind their logic.
And btw, that's the problem when the main officers in ISU are speed skaters. They just couldn't be bothered about the right scoring for figure skating..
I have been wondering about this 4A scoring anomaly since a few years ago. Thank you for bringing this up. I hope ISU watch this video and do something about the scoring.
In my opinion, I think it will be better for Hanyu to change the 4A to 4Lo in the free skate. I don't think he can get enough points to push himself into podium position if he insists to try that 4A. If he lands it, I don't think he will get positive GOE (but of course I really hope he will !!). It's most likely gonna be either "q" with 0 GOE, or "
You are right, but Hanyu always said that his goal is not to get the gold in Beijing but landing 4a. It's his childhood dream and I hope he will achieve this ^-^
@@muki7934 Yes, I heard about that. But this is Olympic Games. I would rather see him gets 3rd place but not with 4A, rather than 4th place with 4A.
But of course, a podium with landed 4A is still possible, and we hope he will achieve this :)
He basically skate for 4A and hard to see him take that out though it's logical. But he is Yuzuru Hanyu
Even if he traded for the opening 4Lo, in the large scheme of thing it would still not guarantee him a gold medal. He is in 8th place, 18 points behind Nathan. Even by sheer miracle that every men except Yuzuru flop in this Thursday, they could still wrongly score him to keep him out of the podium. Besides, he has done everything he has to do, win everything there is possible to win, why can't he skate for himself this once?
@@yudhistira16s I think since Uno and Yuma have really high hopes for podium yuzu would rather let them shine instead and focus on his individual goals you know?
I'm very sad that this special competition with beautiful expressions is about to become just a jumping competition.The sense of unity with the song he cherishes in all tournaments and the attitude of entering the jump are no longer emphasized as points.The sense of unity with the song he cherishes in all tournaments and the attitude of entering the jump are no longer emphasized as points.I think his "unrewarded" line isn't just about 4A, it's about scoring methods.So he said. "Nathan now has everything he needs to compete." But the current competition is not what figure skating should be.He skated his cherished skates. Than victory. So he emphasized the word "my skates". His skating is the most correct figure skating, a perfect coexistence of technology, expression and music. Only he can do it now. I am very sad.May more people understand his suffering. May he be rewarded.
Обидно, что изза ямы он лишился золота. Досадно, обидно. Он гений и таких нет. А чен как был корявый, такой и остался
Извините конечно, но вы несёте фигню какую-то 😬
Каждый заслуживает золото, а Чен катается превосходно.
Если он действительно корявый то накосячит в ПП и это шанс Ханю, другой вопрос сможет ли Ханю не косячить и Юма за спиной стоит на готове 😁
@@ANCEFY
Чен - сила (катания).Ханю - красота и сила!
I dont think he can win gold but bronze is possible, but the fact that he is not the one supposed on podium in the beginning and we all know why.
@@linaEngene. si patina como un robot
Wow well that is very disappointing 😔 All the positive vibes for Yuzuru ✨✨✨
It should be worth a gold medal itself 🤩
Gracias por el video. ..Espero que Yuzuru logre realizar su 4A , aunque el puntaje sea muy bajo para la difultad real del salto.❤🇨🇱
I'm going to say something controversial, that I myself would normally disagree with: the minimum the judges can do if he lands the jump and it's not 2 footed is automatically go +5, even if the rotations aren't perfect, as long as it isn't downgraded. And then give Yuzu the +5s he deserves on the other elements when he is clean, that are closer to perfection and the platonic idea of figure skating than to other figure skaters
I wish that too! Unfortunately won't happen.. Just hope the judges won't be too harsh on him!
羽生加油，ISU 一直压羽生的分数，不管咋样我们永远爱你支持你
Infelizmente existe muita injustiça e sujeira nesse meio. O que aos nossos olhos é tão lindo, há tanta coisa ruim por baixo dos panos. Os atletas que tanto se esforçam não têm a nota merecida, são desvalorizados por interesses pessoais de terceiros. Isso é um desrespeito e não incentiva os patinadores a continuarem. Agora é uma guerra de saltos, estão deixando a beleza da interpretação musical.
Hoping free skates there won't be holes in the ice like today...
Very well explained, thanks for this video, it helped me a lot 👍
The reason the base value is as low as it is, is because of the posibility of someone landing it just past forward and getting an < which gives 80% of the base value. If the base value was, for example, 14.5 then a just past forward 4A< would have a base value of 11.6 which would be higher than a proper 4Lz which would be absurd!
Remember the change to 4A base value was made when they jigged the scale of values to make sure a screwed up quad wasn't worth lots. As an example Mikhail Kokyada (who I love) kept falling on 4Lz in the SP and getting 9.6 (13.6 BV - 4.00 in GOE) knowing that falling on the 4Lz was better scoring than what you get for the most perfect 3Lz, i.e 8.1 (6.0 BV + 2.1 in GOE). As a result of many skaters splatfests scoring so high the code of points was altered to shift points from base value to GOE to ensure poor quality quads didn't score so high which is a good thing.
I have replied to your argument in another comment section but it seems you also put the comment here. Just to make sure people read this comment don’t get misled, I will reply again here:-
- well I understand your argument and logic behind it. Using ur logic, the current scoring of 3A< = 6.4, still higher than 3Lz (5.9). In contrast, 4A< will be 10, 1.5 lower than 4Lz (11.5), 1 point lower than 4F (10), and 0.5 point lower than 4Lo (10.5). We have seen how Hanyu tried all these and know how hard to do even an under-rotated 4A. Whereby a screwed up 4Lz< =9.2, which is still higher than 3A (8) and almost the same points as 4T. See the whole irony?
Also, some other comments had pointed out an obvious irony. All other triples to quads still have about double the points on them after they reduce the quad points. Just not the 4A.
Toeloop: 4.2 -> 9.5
Salchow: 4.3 -> 9.7
Loop: 4.9 -> 10.5
Flip: 5.3 -> 11
Lutz: 5.9 -> 11.5
Axel: 8 -> 12.5
See your own logic and the irony behind? Sure you replied saying that's ISU's reason. But in your initial comment, you stated it in a “matter-of-factly” manner which means you agree with them. So we are just using math to attack the irony behind either your or their logic. The main officers in ISU are speed skaters. They don’t really bother to understand and find out all the differences in skating and difficulty. Most fans believe these base values were simply set under the influence by various big feds. I don’t personally like to speculate but just wanna state that not all reasons given by ISU makes sense.
@@FigureSkatingFan I think the problem is that if the 4A was double the 3A base value like the others it would be 16.0 so if someone landed it just past forward that would be 12.8 points which I personally do think would be insane.
Also I think it's important to understand the rational behind the adjustments. In general they took the base value for a quad, added +3 GOE to determine the maximum points and then recalculated the base value for the -5/+5 GOE system. Essentially you can still get the same maximum points as before for a fantastic jump but if it's poor quality then it's now gets lower.
The 4A had a base value of 15.0. If you had a +3 GOE it added 3.6 points so a total of 18.6 points. Now it's 12.5 but if you get a +5 (now the equivalent of the old +3) you would get 12.5 base + 6.25 in GOE = 18.75. So you actually get slightly more.
Old system (4A = base of 15.0)
+3 GOE = 15.0 + 3.6 = 18.75
+2 GOE = 15.0 + 2.6 = 17.6
+1 GOE = 15.0 + 1.2 = 16.2
0 GOE = 15.0 + 0.0 = 15.0
New system (4A = base of 12.5)
+5 GOE = 12.5 + 6.25 = 18.75
+4 GOE = 12.5 + 5.0 = 17.50
+3 GOE = 12.5 + 3.75 = 16.25
So you can actually still get the same points for a good quality 4A now compared to before. It's only the low quality ones that don't.
@@benbailey159bb u mentioned this old to new system logic in another video too which I remember. Sure it makes sense for them to think that way but again, what’s the odds of skater getting 4A with +5 GOE and how hard would it be? It’s a jump near human capacity we are talking about. like previously stated, there’s always ways people can say to justify the logic, but sorry we don’t buy it. Appreciate your time in commenting with the educational value though. Thank you
I really really like your video!! The reason why quad Axel base value isn't so much higher than quad Lutz is because ISU doesn't want to encourage skaters to go for such high risk element, in order to avoid injuries, after all, at the end of the day, this is still skating, and even though jumps are really important and major point getters, skating should still be more important than just jumping. As you can see there are skaters that don't perform quads, but are such great skaters that they can still get extremelly high marks and place in internacional competitions. Hugz!!
It's not the jumps in the second half but the last 3 jumps can have the 10 percent bonus added into the basic value. (Hope my memory is right.😅)
Thank's your video !
Before that all jumps will get 10% bonus, now thanks to Zagitova rule, only 1 jump in SP and 3 jumps in FS will get 10% bonus, new rule since 2018 :)
Recemos por Yuzuru!
Appreciate Yuzuru never give up quad Axel , no matter What You're the Best ❤️❤️
Also I'd like to say - I watched Yuzuru's free-skate at the Olympics now and I had a feeling his arms weren't perfectly tucked on his body during the Quad Axel. Which means there is still some angular momentum to be saved helping him rotate faster thus making the necessary 4.5 turns in time. Or he can jump higher haha.
Неважно. Юдзуру Ханю - звезда иного калибра, для которого победа на Олимпиаде - не так важна. Он там уже был - был два раза подряд! А вот возможность первым покорить 4 Аксель - это да. Это - цель, достойная этой легенды.
unrelated, but while watching today's SP I was practicing recognizing jumps and the number of revelations by writing it all down and by the end of the competition I noticed there were barely any loops, like two I guess? Does someone know why is that? This is not the hardest jump, but skaters could replace their toeloop or salchow jump with Lo thereby earning more points.
You mean 4Lo? Or you mean 3Lo as a second jump? Both are super duper difficult and undervalued! 4Lo should get the same score if not higher than 4Lz but wasn't given as such. After this Olympics they will then increase 4Lo and 4F base value to be the same as 4Lz. 3Lo as second jump is really really risky and difficult and just slightly higher point than 3T. Hope that clears ur thought
@@FigureSkatingFan @Figure Skating Fan I was talking more about 3 or 4Lo on it's own, I thought high level skaters would jump them more often in order to increase base value. But if I understood correctly, that's just the same case as with 4A when the jump just doesn't worth it
@@anchill8894 Because people usually use 3F or 3Lz (or quad if they can manage) as the second single jump in SPs instead of the loop, because those are worth more. And in a combo's second jump, 3Loop is very difficult.
@@anchill8894 Also, quad sal & toe are less difficult than quad loop, so it's accessible to many more skaters who need stable quads to stay competitive.
Not only do the Luzt and Flip worth more point, Loop is considered to be much more difficult than the former 2 jumps. Loop is an edge jump that take off with very little or, in a way, awkward support, so it is much more difficult to do a quad, let alone triple loop. Jumping 4Lo (according to Yuzuru) has higher risk of falling because it is harder to control the landing speed. Besides, skaters usually opt for a higher success rate jump, rather than a high score one.
We already knew 4 years ago that the rule change will target Hanyu.
Components are now -- a sham!
Компоненты судьи лепят не по прокатам, а по понятиям :(
А стоимость 4А должна быть в районе 15
Фк - субъективный вид спорта, ничего удивительного. Не только компоненты, надбавки тоже.
Love u so much yuzuruuuuuuu no matter next next...
So...say goodbye to Figure skating n welcome Figure jumping..
If Yuzuru lands that 4A and shortly after the Olympics, the BV for it is increased? I might have an aneurysm.
我是為了羽生結弦才開始看花滑的，他表演真的很美，每個動作都有意義，也看得出來他想表達的意境是什麼，
別的男選手我看了一兩分鐘就看不下去了，因為很無聊，跳來跳去手揮來揮去不知道在忙什麼:/
對評審的評分制度感到失望，羽生退役後，我絕對再也不會追花滑了。
Me too 🥲
@Ying Peng 😂😂😂👏👏👍👍
1) You could have a least mentioned Kohei Uchimura's name if you were going to refer to him and use his words. 😉
2) The real problem with the Quad Axel (IMO) is that the BV for the other jumps is all over the map, creating a “logarithmic” scale that’s inconsistent between the types of jumps and number of rotations. The Toeloop and the Salchow are basically equally difficult (easy). And this is reflected properly on double jumps (where both have a BV of 1.3). So why does a Quad Salchow get 0.2 more BV than a Quad Toe? That really doesn’t make any sense. Also, the Quad Lutz is slightly undervalued. The difference between Triple Flip and Triple Lutz is 0.6, but the difference between Quad Flip and Quad Lutz is less (only 0.5). But why exactly? If they added the same multiples for additional rotations for every type of jump, then the BVs would be consistent across the board and you wouldn't have this mess that they have. You just multiply the BV for each type of triple jump by 2 to get your BV for the quad of that same jump. For example:
1TL = 0.5 2TL = 1.0 3TL = 4.0 4TL = 8.0
1S = 0.5 2S = 1.0 3S = 4.0 4S = 8.0
1Lo = 0.6 2Lo = 1.2 3Lo = 4.8 4Lo = 9.6
1F = 0.7 2F = 1.4 3F = 5.6 4F = 11.2
1Lz = 0.8 2Lz = 1.6 3Lz = 6.4 4Lz = 12.8
1A = 1.0 2A = 2.0 3A = 8.0 4A = 16
The BV for all double jumps would be x2 higher than single jumps. Triple jumps are x4 higher than double jumps (in order to discourage doubles). And quads are x2 higher than triples. Using this system, every type of jump gets what it deserves. Quads become the standard, and Triple Axel becomes the only really competitive triple jump. This also gives the Quad Axel the highest BV of 16.0, while keeping the math simple and fair. A fall on the Quad Axel would still give you more than the BV of a Quad Toe or Salchow.
I am a new fan~😍
I wanting for this Olympic since November or December 2020 !😄
Hanyu had 2 falls in the LP. And yet judge 2 gave him a 9.5 for Skating Skills, and judges 6 and 9 gave him a 9.0 for Interpretation. Why? I don't understand. @1:41
Judges don’t always follow rules as mentioned. Like Nathan also had some mistakes in his LP, a popped jump, and a tripped during his choreo sequence, but he still got 5 PCS 10 full marks elements. So 🤷♀️
@@FigureSkatingFan...maybe you can make another video and correctly point out that this kind of thing happens to many skaters, even Yuzuru, because when you only point out Nathan, you feed into the false narrative that the judges actively give only Nathan unfair advantages over other skaters...which is the narrative that fanyus often spin. I hope to see more objectivity in your videos.
採点の仕組みね。PCSは、選手によって上げ方が違うんだよね。例えば、五輪シーズンに入ってから急に高くなったり。
No, it is the system and the judging. The system allows from cheating and the judges chet with impunity. It is both.
thank you for your post ... really appreciate it
one thing for sure ... i am just done with this sport the time Hanyu Yuzuru leave it
because i am so done with those ISU
Я тоже думаю, что 12,5 балла за 4аксель это слишком мало! Если человек такой прыжок может прыгнуть, то это невероятный человек: какой физической силой он должен обладать и при том оставаться лёгким и пластичным. Юдзуру только... Ну может быть ещё Трусова и Валиева? (Даже поверить сложно).
Eu demais com o simples fato do Yuzuro Hanyu está nas Olimpíadas... espero que no programa livre ele consiga fazer o salto que ele tanto quer fazer. E que seja medalhista se for de ouro melhor ainda.
Dear FSF, after this there will be new season with the new scoring system. Next year after 1 season I'll wait for your next analysis of the new system application and its implications to fs world. I'm glad that you not only share the glory of fs but also educate the fans.
Will definitely do so! Yeah we don't wanna conclude too early. Wanna see how the new scoring system will really affect the scores before coming to any criticism ..
talking about scoring, please remember Sochi scoring scandal in women's singles. Yuna deserved 2-time Olympic champion and also the reputation she deserved. She is currently hated and bashed by Russian fans, especially Eteri's girls fans
Q los jueces califiquen bien . Yuzuru tu nacidte como un ave lindo me patinador de hielo ❄❄❄❄ sin recentimiento deberian calificar lo q es correcto 👲👲❄👣👣❄
Can you speak on how Anya was scored in the free, and break down the mistakes that Sasha did, as well as how Anya could have some elements with GOE as high as 3.77 when Kaori's highest is only 2.04? It seems Anya's technical score was compared with male skaters and people are a bit baffled. Do you think Anya was scored correctly?
Юдзуру великий, шикарный, великолепный и легенда на все времена! Он сделал зрелищным мужское катание, от него не отвести глаз, им можно любоваться вечно!
Hanyu Go 4a
No es justo, mentira lo jueces hacen trampa, Yusuru no merecia esa puntuación. Ni el que declararon campeón, lo fue. Yusuru es y será campeon en muchísimo tiempo 🌎⛸️⛸️🇯🇵🇪🇸💞🌹
Despite the result, all the time, always, we will be with you 💞💞💞💞 #YuzuruHanyu. 'cause you are the best in all technics, art, soul dancer aspects, sensitive, bold, determined and happy person. ❤️❤️❤️ So beatiful human being! We love and be with you, always. #olympics #olympics2022 #Beijing2022WinterOlympics #yuzuru #figureskating #japanteam #Yuzurufan
I'm extremely sad that I won't be able to watch Yuzu's 4A tomorrow as part of his FS 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭. I'll be praying really hard for him for tomorrow!!!
Vamos YUZURU!
ISU: No one in 100 years of figure skating has ever achieve that?! And you wanna 3 extra points for it?!! Haha now you only get an ONE extra point!
lowkey i felt like back in 07/08 the 3A for women's were undervalued as well. same as what's happening here.
計分標準不同的成績放在一起比較是沒有意義的事，所以在我看來羽生的紀錄並沒有被人打破，只能說陳巍破了2018年後的成績。