Missed Approach in Hard IFR at Piseco lessons learned
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2018
- Flew up to Piseco NY and attempted an approach to minimums at the airport. I did not think the airport was at minimums when I planned the flight but it became evident on the approach that this would be to minimums. Many lessons learned here in the de-brief to make me a better pilot next time. Overall a good day of flying.
There's two types of pilots, those that will tell you they've missed approaches and liars. Thanks for being so open!
Someone who is humble enough to understand what he did wrong and posted it, furthermore in an understandable way. This is what makes this video valuable. Thank you and always Happy Landings, Sir!
I’m so glad I came across your video, this was excellent real world experience. Thanks Doc!
im just starting my private pilot training and truly appreciate you posting a video that is helpful and something to learn from. With me not knowing much at the stage I am in, I would have been scared shitless. You did a great job keeping your cool! thx!
I always tell my patients (when they indicate their doctor referred them to me) “if your doctor was humble enough to recognize he wanted another opinion or someone else to do your surgery, that wise”.
Good sir, you did the right thing. Your big-picture awareness was on point. When you felt uncomfortable, you bugged out and lived to fly another day.
There are enough pilots that rode a plane into a crater because they felt like they “could try it one more time”.
You did well. Your attitude of sharing to learn is admirable. Suggest you will learn your personal minimums but have confidence to fly to published minimums - you are clearly capable to do this. Thanks and good luck!
Arrogance and over-confidence is always a killer.
Following the rules and learning from each and every flight makes for an excellent pilot.
Well done and thank you for sharing your experiences.
Thanks for the informative video, don’t listen to the haters, this is exactly what is needed in the aviation world, honest, true and real events that everyone can learn from and possibly stop a future accident. Although your handling of the situation maybe wasn’t by the book but I wouldn’t call you reckless either. Happy flying from across the pond 🇬🇧
Haha. Your passenger nodding off was cracking me up. Thanks for the video!
As a mere VFR pilot, I greatly appreciated this video. Thanks for posting.
Great job putting this video together. Thanks so much for sharing some valuable IFR lessons.
Rory O'Brien thanks for watching
Hi. I fly out of KPOU. I really appreciated this video. I learned a lot without living through the pucker factor LOL. Thanks again.
I very much appreciate the fact that you posted this less-than-perfect approach. That takes guts, and is far more useful to the rest of us IFR pilots than a video of a perfect approach. In my opinion, had you made the one small change of going down to the MDA as soon as allowed, you would have seen the runway easily and had a different video. Even had you not seen the runway, I suspect you wouldn't have even busted the MDA either, because you would have been already stabilized at 2680. So really, a correction of this one problem (one you already know) is the main thing. I also agree with you that you don't need your passenger to be looking and you certainly don't need an IFR safety pilot. When I've flown IFR with my wife in the right seat, asking her to help with approaches would convert her from a happy passenger (one willing to join me on all trips) to a very nervous one who no longer wants to fly.
Love the faith of your co-pilot and passenger... Very calm and quiet, passager...
It's always nice to have that EXTRA set of eye's. (Being sarcastic)
greg Botlin I agree
Wow, what’s with all the snarky comments? Thank you for posting something other than a perfect approach. I’m on here to learn and videos like this teach me a lot more than a flight that went exactly as planned.
Ryan Gledhill thanks so much. Everyone has their opinions. I am not on trying to instruct only showing my evolution as a pilot
"the ultimate measure of leaders is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and adversity"
Another great video to learn from. Dr pilot did hundreds of approaches dead on. Flying is a performance and sometimes you can be off. Every time we fly and we are off in one aspect or another, it challenges us to keep sharpening our skills and get better. People who don’t understand are quite oblivious to their own mistakes and will have a harder time to self improve. So easy on the critical comments guys.
Another great video Dr. Pilot! And the production value keeps getting better too. Great graphics in this last video! I also appreciate the commentary, notes and self assessments. I’ve lurked for a few months and just never got around to saying thanks for taking the time to produce and post the videos. It is no small part for the GA pilots posting videos to TH-cam that I’m back in the air after 28 years. Talk about a rusty pilot, I may have set a new record for the longest time to pass a BFR. Lol. I bought a T182T a few months back and I’m currently going through my IFR training. Although my Skylane is based at KPMP, I live in Boca with my wife & 2 daughters and we’ve spent much time boating in the Exumas. I have yet to determine whether they will spend more time looking out the windows or at their iPads. So more than a few of your videos have also hit close to home. 😎🙏
Would love to live in FLA and fly to the bahamas for fun all the time
That’s eventually my plan once I shake the rust off. With the girls school schedule we no longer have 2 days just to get to the outer islands. The Skylane will make weekend trips possible to such locations. I wish I could also get to the many fine destinations you have within range from KISP. 😎
John Sea I too am a rusty pilot hoping to get medically qualified in the next year or so. I haven’t been active since 1989 when kids started to arrive. Now am retired and medically challenged and want to get back in the air.
John Sea I am so happy that the channel had that effect on you. To me that is priceless !! Congrats , good luck and keep watching
As a Doctor and a Pilot I respect you more now. Thank you for sharing.
Also, whether with someone is with me or by myself, when I'm getting close, I make a point to repeat, out loud, my altitude, next altitude (such as minimum), and whether I'm on course or not. This has kept me from slipping through my DH, and helps me to set a missed-approach decision point, so that when it comes, I'm ready with the plan. Keep verbalizing. Thanks again!
Always fun to shoot to minimums. You know how close ground is, but don't appreciate the gravity of the situation until you break out. Nice job and wonderful video editing.
Good job IMO. As a newly minted instrument pilot myself, you stayed calm and did what you were supposed to - flew the airplane. appreciate you posting your flights for us all to learn something
Great videos, please keep them coming!
Thanks for sharing the approach and all that goes into it. Nice job on the camera, maps and chart overlays.
kiltedpiper thanks
Excellent video, well done in challenging conditions.
Thanks für sharing this missapproach! Good to see people reacting when things went wrong! Next time we all know better :)
Good landings and greetings from germany
pilot.paul.schultze Hi Paul, In reality nothing went wrong at all ! It was just the opposite, he was not in a position to land so he did the one and only correct thing and that was execute a missed approach. I do agree with your overall assessment “he did the right thing”
I have only been flying for 47 years for a living. On every approach I have ever flown I planed to go missed, if I saw the runway and I was in a position to land all was good.. even in visual meteorological conditions. I have always had a game plan to go missed if required.
😁🛫
Great video. Good to see approach to minimums and go around.
Thank you for showing this. A learning moment for all.
Beautiful area around Piseco. We enjoy stopping into the Oxbow Inn when nearby. Thanks.
Ahhh.. I always really enjoy these. Not for the video content, entertainment or educational value, but rather the opportunity to relish in the wisdom and musings of so many “master aviators” in the comments. Rarely will so many experts gather on one forum and share their expertise. Scribes take down every word, so future generations of pilots, may benefit from their input. Doesn’t matter if the video portrays pilots who have dedicated their entire life to aviation, with 75.000 tt hours, with type ratings in 200+ aircraft, we will all be warned to not be impressed. It’s through the criticism of others, that these keyboard captains establish their importance and demand our respect. Well, I for one am humbled by their greatness and if they scoff at the accomplishments, or dissect the mistakes of others, because THEY are convinced that they are more accomplished, then that’s good enough for me and I bow to each of them. 🇺🇸🛩 Now, with that said, thanks Doc for sharing this trip, the challenges encountered and the lessons learned. There’s still a few of us that are not yet perfect.
Randy Porter once in a while there is a perfect comment that distills it all. Wish I had that gift of the pen! Thanks so much for watching and getting it!
Dr. Pilot Thanks Doc, for the nice words. It’s just a shame these guys were not around in 1937. Any one of them could have brought the Hindenburg in without incident, in full IMC and a gusting crosswind. But, we have them now. Safe skies and keep em coming !
jetboss737 Well said !
While there is quite a bit of your narrative I agree with Randy and I've made my mistakes just like everybody has lets look at what happened here. The lowest alt on the screen indicator(I'm assuming its close to being accurate) was 2021ft. Thats 659ft below the MDA(minimum descent altitude). At the minimum descent altitude of 2680ft your 977ft agl(above ground level). The gravity of the situation is when the descent was finally arrested the aircraft was only 318ft agl. You can cover that distance in mere seconds add to that the mountains terrain and a bit of negativity becomes well warranted. Dr. Pilot that was close and a definite whew.
jetdoctn - You make valid points and the numbers you cite certainly support that. As a pilot myself, I enjoy the various perspectives voiced by viewers on these videos. My cynical rant was a generalized one, after reading endless criticisms on virtually every video posted. The keyboard captains who weigh in, likely have a grand total of 6-8 hours logged in “Flight Simulator”. For example, I watched a newer video of a young girl who videoed her solo. Even that drew assorted criticisms from the expert viewers. My comments were directed more at those cyber Chuck Yeagers, who never have a positive thing to say.
Nice video. I m interested to watch some more. I like at the end how you used a clip from someone else to show the terrain from an approach on a clear day. I especially liked that it was from a video in my Tri Pacer! I have a newer one in 360 into Piseco from my Cherokee 180 if you haven’t seen that yet. Very good tool to find a video from someone else to see the terrain before going to a new airport.
This is definitely a thumbs up! Fly safe!!
Thank you for posting this video!
Dr. Pilot: Thank you for the video. I am just starting my IFR training in "the mountains" in Asheville, NC (with respect to our Rocky Mtn friends). Appreciate your contribution. As a somewhat older dad than you, I would respectfully submit that you missed an opportunity to involve your son in a memory that the two of you would have. There is nothing like staring out a blank windshield knowing that there is danger around to increase awareness and later appreciate the moment. Maybe a solicitation of his help in looking for the ground with a caution that you also needed to concentrate would have been in order. My son and I sometimes have awkward silences when we get together, and he is 43. But when we talk of shared memories, it comes back alive.
Stan it’s funny I was so focused I did not realize he was sleeping until afterward when I saw the video
@@DrPilot Yeah, I know how that is too! Great videos.
Very humbling post, thanks for that..... we have ALL BEEN THERE in some form or another , in particular we all learn from each others’ misfortunes ! That was great to watch
I have 26,000 hours, 9,500 sectors.....captain Airbuses A320/321 and Boeing 737s, 7 different airlines around the world, but my best years were my 5 years apprenticeship GA around Australia’s coast cities and “ the bush” especially Darwin Northern Territory , Barons 55/58, C310, C402s..... not only flying but a massive life experience, thanks for sharing your post .
I taught myself in GA, and used it throughout my airline career as well.....if you know the wind direction, then during the self brief, as you look up with the crab laid off, where would you expect to see the runway through the windscreen... ie off to the right and at what sort of angle ... sort of.
Mike 👍
Melbourne 🇦🇺🦘
VDP, good case for calculating one. Thanks for the video. Paul
pslny thanks for watching
Rc aircraft models
Great learning experience for all your viewers. I recently discovered your channel and am enjoying it.
You mentioned that you were a Urologist and it seems you are from Long Island. My late brother (William A Brock) was a Pediatric Urologist at LIJ. I was wondering if you knew him. Thanks, Larry
Bill was a great guy. He taught me pediatric urology. Was a great surgeon Definitely missed a great deal.
Great video thank you for sharing.
nice video . good on you for excellent decision making
Great learning!! Tnx for sharing
Great video! Thanks a lot! BTW, your First Officer got balls of steel! :)))))
Haha thanks
Great job!
I was really trying to get the verbiage down for certain IFR calls. Thanks for the videos!
Good learning tool if you can stay awake. 😂I’ve done about 8 of these down to minimum IFR and for a newbie like myself I was so happy to have a CFI with me or another PPL.
Unless I was a delta pilots I would not be doing single pilot IFR Till I had it wired . Even then my choice is 2 pilots. It can get sporty quickly.
Flown into K09 many times......sometime with marginal VFR so I empathize with your experience.. Irondequoit Inn is close by and a great place to wait out weather!
mirrorrecords thanks for the tip
Plenty of support from the right seat!!
Thanks for posting, some of the negative comments are missing that we can all learn from post like yours!
Steve yea I agree 100% humility is definitely the mindset to be in when flying in the left seat.
I think knowing what your doing and that old pilot knows everything attitude has no place in the cockpit.
Confidence is good if you know when to dial it back.
What is up with that dude sleeping in the right seat?! Open your eyes and enjoy the flight man!
Great job by the copilot!
Keep posting!
I appreciate the video; it's helpful since other pilots so they can follow along for their own practice. I didn't see the runway lights? I use them on every approach if available... AC lights then RWY lights is my procedure.
Cool thanks for watching and make sure to hit the like button and subscribe
Excellent choice 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Tablet. ForeFlight. Synthetic Vision.
IFR into a mountainous area with trees, single engine. Gutsy.
VERY WELL made video!!!!
Thanks for the video.
Nice a/c
wow, great approach. My home airport never saw it that bad
Hope to go back on a good day
Lots of great lessons in this one, from the unreliability of an AWOS 40 miles away to predict ceilings (2400 OVC) through the handling of the missed, to the apparent surprise hearing "can you maintain your own obstruction clearance?" While on a published missed. 👍🏻
Yes yes and yes!
Thanks for sharing!!! good class. Quick question. What is that white box you have on the dash? some specs pls? Thanks!
Carlos Quijano that is Sirius xm aviation box gets weather and Louis and send to iPad. Thanks for watching.
You want fun try a engine failure at Chattanooga in full IFR on takeoff. They pumped 30 gallons of water into our thanks. Someone left the hatch open on the fuel truck in a rain storm. It was raining for 3 days. We where like 700 feet and the prop just stopped. Chattanooga is in the mountains. It was fun
So lucky your copilot was able to assist you so much
What is the white unit at the top of the glare shield?
Gary Barker Sirius xm weather
We all have personal minimums, mine are that I never fly if the ceiling is forecast to be below 600 ft at time of arrival. Add mountainous terrain, and it goes to 1000. Most accidents happen because we think we have to be somewhere, always have a plan B if you must be there.
Russell Lowry I do too and my personal minimum is ifr minimum if no wind or turbulence and convection risk
Good job
Would you attempt this without GPS? I love the fact you fly near our neighborhood so to speak. I saw a video where you went to 5B2, used to be my home airport. I believe Pecico isn't far from where I am in the southern adirondacks. I then found it interesting you initially picked Schenectady as alternate, I used to live a few miles from that airport. Given the many airports including Floyd Bennett in glens falls, how did you decide your alternate?
Thanks! That was good to see. It seemed to me that you could have descended to DH/Min far earlier than you did. Were you just a little behind the plane, or was there a reason you were holding off? The speed seems a bit high also? I don't have the plate in front of me, so I certainly don't know everything about the approach. The visibility looks good, so I assume that the next approach was fine. Cheers.
First, wake up the right seat guy. I assume it was your son who had a late night before. Teach him to at least change radio freq. You had your hands full and pushed the edge. Why? We don't need to lose anymore Drs. And yes I am a pilot.
I think you did a great job on this approach despide what happen,in my opinion you could do a circle to land
It seemed to me that you disengaged the autopilot too soon. Leaving it engaged would have kept you on your final approach course and allow you to better focus on the altitude. Lower workload, right?
Great video to learn from. What specialty are you? Anesthesiologist here, flying a socata TB10
I am a Urologist. Nice plane TBM
Dr. Pilot I wish it was a TBM. It’s the TB10, Tobago. Single engine 180hp
My initial takeaway from this video is that your co-pilot should be alert, so that he can assist. If an emergency should occur he could read the checklist to you if nothing else. It’s not unusual to be off on ANY approach RNAV or not. The other day I was 1/4 off of a VOR approach, when I could have swore I was dead on. Bottom line is that if you do not see the runway BEFORE minimums; go missed.
Thats also a WAAS Approach. Why were you so far off? Didn’t your GPS flash Suspend when you passed the MAP?
Gary Gazman was not really far off was just one dot
To all those ragging on the guy in seat 0B, he is a PASSENGER and not a First Officer. This is a SINGLE pilot operation.
Thanks my son will appreciate that
how did you loose 500 feet in just 2 seconds (at 13:44) ?? did you adjust your altimeter settings at the last moment ?
Mathieu Guignès might be inaccurate GPS altitude information from the camera recoding.
Doc, Congrats on going around, great decision. Remember don’t pitch down to gain airspeed during a go-around. Power up, pitch up, and clean up.
Also, it seemed you were a step behind the airplane, especially during the go-around, make sure you plan the missed like it’s gonna happen every time, remember the published missed guarantees your obstacle clearance.
The early squirming by your son makes me think he was playing possum here cause he couldn't handle the lack of visibility. IMHO. Thanks for the video.
No he was out no nervousness here
Thanks for sharing this! Please happily ignore these judgemental comments from some sad folks :-)
Mink Thanks so much
It helps to have stuff out there like this! Thanks! Only statement is that the passenger-copilot could and should have been much more engaged, and not literally asleep at the yoke. Extra hands, extra eyes: they always help!
Everyone has covered the points, some less graciously than others. BTW it's pronounced pa-see-co. Educational video, thanks.
I know you should always fly the plane first but should you have not called a Miss approach sooner so the controllers know your out ther? Definitely a good lesson learned and we appreciate you sharing the lesson with us.
Agree company vibes....what's the point of him being there if he's got,headphones on and DOING NOWT ?????
Can never tell what your real altitude was with the camera, But because you were still descending and what looked to be 200 ft above minimums as you were crossing the field, i would say to get down to minimums and stay there as fast as possible, preferably 1 mile before REIL so you can align and correct. with this being a non-precision approach. Great video though!
Joshua Martin agree 100% as too fast and high because of the LP and no glide slope
Yes; get down with out delay to mda then drag it in to the missed approach point.
Were the needles off center for you to be that far off? Thank you for the lesson here.
Looked at a couple of vacation homes near Piseco...Regarding cell service., Correct. It is limited
Did you brief the approach or use a landing checklist? Not evident in your video.
FWIW, I maintain 90KTS in a C182 starting a couple miles outside IAF. Makes life a lot easier.
Larsonaut I put first set of flaps on and try to maintain 90 ias. On this approach there was a tailwind at altitude. I do brief the approach all the time and have a knee board with all altitude written. The descent checklist I have memorized because as you know I the 182 it is not much
Not sure where he thinks the runway is, but it’s not in this video
BLUF: you need a lot of work on Pre-mission planning, before you get close to hitting the start switch on the airplane again. DEBRIEF: Wake your son up. You can see you are flying inside and out in IMC conditions , good way to get disoriented and then your son would be able to enjoy his nap as a dirt nap forever. He should be outside looking for the visuals required to make the landing, and you stay on the instruments through the missed. In IMC its nice to load shed some of the work and double check yours; poor decision to let him enjoy his nap. Did not here you monitor the ASOS freq or ask approach about the wx, ....they will help you with that so you are not surprised. What was your plan after landing; was this your home field, or were you willing to spend the night if wx did not come above mins if you did make it on the ground. After the missed you were making it up on the fly as to what your follow on plans were; if you didn't have an alternate at T/O which you should have had in marginal VFR conditions, start making one as soon as you realize wx is not cooperating. Overall this was an UNSAT flight, a lot of lessons learned here that you should go over with a more experienced pilot. wish you the best. NSDQ!
LOL - Can readily understand the restaurant angle!!!
I have never flown a GPS approach. Do you set up a waypoint and that is your terminal navaid?
GPS approaches have charts just like ILS and VOR. They have a predetermined fixes with altitudes.
Depends on the approach plate
Hi Extreme Recluse, when you do do your IFR training and doing RNAV/RNP- LNAV/ VNAV..... please please get a real good handle on tow things matey
Always triple check a correct local or area QNH
and secondly, deadly important, note on charts the distance to the next waypoint is not the same as to the threshold, very sadly we lost a commuter turbo-prop here in 🇦🇺, thinking it was miles to runway, instead of next waypoint, I’ve always believed the depiction of RNAV charts are dreadful...... I’m a great believer once you’re at the FAF on speed on altitude ready for the descent, the RNAV should be distance to go to the minima ..... I’ve seen this in the simulator under pressure with my mate doing the flying and momentarily screws up distance altitude scale.... just saying sorry 👍
Mike
Melbourne 🇦🇺🦘
Had filed to ksch alternate but realized that rather go to Pittsfield
Not sure if your on-screen altitude was accurate, looked to me like you busted minimums by 600ft?
Steve Brown it was not correct
Your pax is a ton of help, at least he can sleep through it!
Sometimes a "PAX" is better off sleeping...keeps it sterile...
13:43 - 13:45 holy smokes!! was that right? dropped ~500 ft in 2 seconds and your co-pilot is catching some afternoon zzz's... that's great, lol! is this about when you raised the flaps?
great co-pilot....sound asleep..geeeeeez
Good thing you were not over nasty terrain. You pulled flaps to much too soon. Dropping those few hundred feet could have cost you your life. Power, nose up gradually and flaps one notch at a time, into climb cruise.
MasterCarguy44 agree 100%
This video must have taken you awhile to edit. It’s a good way to self-critique, and it was interesting to watch. Continuous improvement.
Frank Dorrin thanks
That shoulder strap looks pretty useless, the plastic loop will not hold on impact. Hope you fix it.
The seatbelt is designed to hold you in your seat in heavy turbulence, not to hold you on impact. But some seatbelts have airbags built in that in theory may lessen impact. But no firm data on that.
Though you broke out at mins and had overflown the field by a bit in addition to being fast... why not just circle to land? I get that you didn’t have the circular to land minimums but You did technically have the field in sight on ur RNAV approach. Maybe I missed something in the video so correct me if I’m wrong.
Flying Guy interesting question here. With field in site In class g airspace vfr is 1 mi clear of clouds. So technically I think I could have cancelled ifr and entered the pattern for right downwind. If I remained on ifr plan then ifr circling Mins apply If anyone else has other ideas please chime in
Dr. Pilot agreed, I personally think you were all set to land!
Thank you for asking. I had the same question.
Another question I had: if you were confident you were over the lake, could you desend to minimums, hope to break out of the clouds before the airport?
Don't jump all over me - just a flightsim pilot wannabe
Dane Watson ... hope is not a good IFR strategy.
Dear Dr.
You did the right thing, go-around...... never ever do a circling skirting under ceiling even if right in circling minimas, fraught with danger, eyes off the instrument, staying inside the category circling area, always very “ suss “ trying to work that out with hills, passing low scud cloud, turning with back to the field going downwind, radio calls, lights, checklists.... just go-around and do the straight in NPA approach again, many accidents due to circling approaches, my airlines have banned them
Great (informative) vid/flight.
Suggestion: If possible it would be better with a heading bug (if it could be displayed along with your airspeed and altitude) as it would help the viewers with situational understanding. (at least speaking for myself)
Joe Heitz that is a good idea I will try to add it
Oh ok. Was just concerned you had an issue with your GPS
I was wondering why you’re so high between WULET and ZUGRA, where you could be at 3600’, if the look down views were in sync on your video. You should have been on a stable descent past ZUGRA to 2680’, but the Virb showed you level, for quite awhile.
I am used to LPV approaches with the G430. This approach was an LP and I should have dropped down to the MDA just after the FAF. I was being cautious but it hurt me in the end too high and fast.
I was thinking the same thing. It burned me on my instrument test not getting down. So now I get down pretty quick when it’s just a LP. I might suggest (by reading another comment you was one dot off) work on flying closer to center.
David Michael just for all the naysayers out there most people would have flies this approach coupled. I was hand flying the approach to maintain my stick and rudder skills
Dr. Pilot practice is the only way to get better. As a pilot myself I was just giving constructive criticism of something to work on that will help. I understand if you don’t fly for any length of time you lose the skill you have.
David Michael I understand and appreciate any constructive criticism. I don’t put myself out there as a expert pilot. The channel I hope will show my evolution as I progress hopefully to CFI at some point
Another take away lesson. 123 Rule (1 hour before/after , 2000 ft ceiling, 3 mile vis)...Had you filed an alternate , you would to not had to maintain MVA before ATC issued a clearance..And you wouldn’t have had the extra workload ...I always file an alternate no matter what....
Having filed an alternate does not reduce the ATC workload in issuing the clearance. They are not aware of your alternate. So they need to formulate your clearance in put it in the NAS. It sontimes takes a few minutes depending on workload and traffic. Filing an alternate only ensures the pilot has a plan to proceed to another airport with better WX.
willyt ... planning is paramount.
Very high airspeed on the approach-consider memorising power settings for 1.3 x Vso.
Douglas there was a wind shear and tailwind in approach
You forgot your second motor for doing hard IFR like that.